Browse content similar to 21/11/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, 2016 strikes again - we've torn up the political script - | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
as a late entry - Francois Fillon - rewrites politics in France. | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
Who is this former President - and how would he fare | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
Can his anglophile views help us do better on Brexit. | :00:18. | :00:25. | |
We ask one of France's most distinguished broadcasters | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
Can the independent inquiry into child abuse regain | :00:28. | :00:34. | |
the faith of victims - or is it beyond repair? | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
We have got to the stage now, down the line where it has crumbled. | :00:41. | :00:47. | |
There is no other word for it, it has crumbled. | :00:48. | :00:48. | |
Business, or pleasure - or politics - its so hard | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
Donald Trump is welcome figures from around the world - | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
but is he starting to merge the interests of the | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
We'll talk to George W Bush's ethics adviser. | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
And, why was actor Joseph Gordon-Levitt warned off playing | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
Just like what you're saying, he is a controversial figure, | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
You have to think about the commercial | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
I don't think those people are wrong. | :01:18. | :01:33. | |
The man they used to call the Bling Bling President is bowing | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
out of French politics with barely a whimper. | :01:38. | :01:39. | |
Nicholas Sarkozy, former French President, came | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
a distant third in a race he was expected to win. | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
But this is 2016, don't forget, the year where we take any political | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
So it is Francois Fillon, another former President, | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
a man who likes driving racing cars, who has become the firm favourite | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
to lead the centre right into the Spring election | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
for an expected showdown with the National Front's Marine Le Pen. | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
Francois Fillon, an economic liberal and social conservative, | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
He's said he will cut public sector jobs and rein in | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
But his success last night may owe as much to tactical voting | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
and a loathing of Sarkozy as anything he has done yet. | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
So is it too early to ask what Fillon would mean for France | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
and indeed for the UK as we head towards Brexit? | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
Here's Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban. | :02:26. | :02:35. | |
Francois Fillon had his revenge and it must have been sweet. The man in | :02:36. | :02:45. | |
the driving seat of politics is an amateur motor driver. He fell victim | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
to snide briefings by his boss and last night, he knocked Nicolas | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
Sarkozy out of the primary race the leadership of the Centre right. And | :02:58. | :03:06. | |
he pulled ahead of the other candidate by 12 points. I think the | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
people who voted for Francois Fillon during the primary yesterday, did it | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
specially to kick out Nicolas Sarkozy, which is done. Now that we | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
have kicked out Nicolas Sarkozy from the race, I think the people will | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
check more carefully, the programme. The winner will face off against | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
Marine Le Pen and after Donald Trump's victory, she seems to be the | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
one to beat. She is more Eurosceptic, but Fillon's politics | :03:42. | :03:50. | |
appeal to many on the right. Religion is central to Francois | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
Fillon on's worldview. A Catholic, he has championed the cause of | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
oppressed Christians in the Middle East and it is central to his views | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
on questions from abortion to gay rights, or the place of Islam in | :04:03. | :04:10. | |
French society. TRANSLATION: This means a policy will have to be put | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
in place, a policy I call administrative control to steer | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
Muslim communities progressively towards acceptance of the rules | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
which are those of our country. The Fillon platform, with its emphasis | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
on bringing French Muslims into line, such as delicate feelings | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
given the recent terror attacks. But his supporters argue, that is no | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
argument. The French are fed up by this kind of drifting away of | :04:41. | :04:48. | |
cultural differences. I think this is a major danger. Fillon is well | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
aware of this danger and this is why also he wants to make it clear. It | :04:54. | :05:02. | |
is through that prism a global war against extreme Islam that Fillon | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
favours reconciliation with President Putin. TRANSLATION: There | :05:06. | :05:14. | |
has to be a coalition with the Russians. I find it a bit rich that | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
taking a counter-productive attitude we have over Russia, we will | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
reconcile over our heads. It is time to change that policy. Reform of the | :05:27. | :05:35. | |
French economy forms the other main plank of Fillon's platform. There is | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
talk of drastic slimming down of the public sector. Given how contentious | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
the reform of working hours and retirement age has already proven in | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
France, this won't be an easy sell. It is very close to Margaret | :05:50. | :06:00. | |
Thatcher programme. The people surfing on this wave will not be any | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
better off with a centrist party. We may have some division and the | :06:06. | :06:14. | |
centrist party will not support Francois Fillon because of this | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
Christian, Margaret Thatcher programme. It is way too white ring. | :06:18. | :06:25. | |
His driving passion has already got him a guest appearance of trans-'s | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
version of top gay. If it puts him into pole position to challenge | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
Marine Le Pen, French voters might have a choice between right and far | :06:36. | :06:37. | |
right. Joining me now from Paris | :06:38. | :06:38. | |
is the journalist Christine Ockrent. We had a little bit about his | :06:39. | :06:47. | |
policies, perhaps his ideologies, but perhaps you can give us a | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
flavour of the man himself, and Anglophile, a Welsh arrive, how | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
would you characterise him? Francois Fillon is a calm guy. He was Nicolas | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
Sarkozy's Prime Minister for five years. But indeed, he has been a | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
constant, low key figure in French conservative politics for ages. He | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
has been an MP since he was 24. So he's very much the political | :07:21. | :07:27. | |
establishment, but I think at the same time his remarkable performance | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
yesterday has to do with his consistency. And given the extreme | :07:31. | :07:38. | |
weakness of the socialist President Francois Hollande on the one hand, | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
and the fierce hatred that opposed Nicolas Sarkozy for the primary, the | :07:44. | :07:50. | |
first round of the Conservative primary yesterday, I think Francois | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
Fillon impress voters with his very sort of calm, you know, I stick to | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
my programme attitude. It is true that his programme, as it was | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
pointed out earlier on, is a mix of extremely good conservative values, | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
as far as society is concerned. Education, he wants to ban the law | :08:14. | :08:21. | |
allowing same-sex people to adopt children, for instance. But also | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
very liberal, especially by French standards, very liberal thatch Aryan | :08:28. | :08:34. | |
views about the economy. I think that so far, people haven't looked | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
very close at his programme and that will be, actually the meat of the | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
very fierce competition. Throughout this week, opposing... Let me just | :08:44. | :08:55. | |
say, the words you have views, consistency, conservatism, don't | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
point to the same trends we are seen globally, people looking for the | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
risk of the outsider, somebody who surprises them. Is France bucking | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
the trend, or does that come next year? No, I don't agree with that | :09:08. | :09:15. | |
view completely. Fillon is very much an insider. He is not a populist. | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
What has happened in Europe, in the eastern part of Europe primarily, | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
but also with Brexit but also obviously in the US, is a wave of | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
populism. Fillon is the opposite of that. Fillon is an insider. He has | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
been an insider for years. It is much more overreaction from the | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
Conservative, Catholic very sort of serious minded liberal minded | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
people, as far as the economy is concerned, who feel they paying much | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
taxes, they feel business is being contrived. It is very different. The | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
Brits have a dog in this race, how do you think his views towards | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
Brexit will be influenced by his wife, by his love of Britain, as we | :10:12. | :10:20. | |
understand it? Do you think he is a good person for us? First of all, | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
his wife is Welsh, which I understand it, is something quite | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
specific. More seriously, I don't think frankly that Brexit is on | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
Francois Fillon's mind for the time being. He has never been a | :10:36. | :10:42. | |
Europhile, he voted against the Maastricht Treaty many years back. | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
But, he is very concerned about restoring very strong Franco German | :10:49. | :10:55. | |
alliance. That is not necessarily you know, meaning a very easy | :10:56. | :11:05. | |
flexible attitude towards Brexit. Can he beat Marine Le Pen, do you | :11:06. | :11:14. | |
believe? I believe he can. He is actually very bad news for Marine Le | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
Pen. Precisely because he is so conservative on social issues. He is | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
so much concerned in fact with French identity, which has been | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
Marine Le Pen's main argument so far. So I think as far as the French | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
far right is concerned, Francois Phil on, if he becomes the | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
Conservative candidate next Sunday and if he wins the first round of | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
our presidential elections at the end of next April, as Marine Le Pen | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
may well, they will be facing one another. I think he can win over | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
Marine Le Pen. Thank you very much, thanks for joining us. | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
As we came on air, a few moments ago Japan was on high alert | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
following an earthquake off the coast of Fukishima. | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
The preliminary magnitude was 7.3 but there is now a tsunami warning | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
in place for waves of up to ten feet. | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
Fukushima is home to the nucleasr power plant that was destroyed | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
by a tusnami five years ago after a major earthquake then. | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
We can cross live to Rupert Wingfield Hayes in Tokyo | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
What are you hearing? The tsunami alarms are still going off on the | :12:25. | :12:40. | |
coast of Fukishima, about 200 miles north of Tokyo. There was an | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
evacuation order called by the national broadcaster after the | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
earthquake struck at just after, just before 6am this morning local | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
time. Calling for people to leave the coast immediately. Since then, | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
we have seen a couple of waves coming but they have been much | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
smaller than expected. The highest wave to strike the coast so far, | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
just one metre, or around three feet, not the ten feet that was | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
predicted. It looks like this will not be anything on the scale of what | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
happened in 2011 of course. It is a strong earthquake, there is a | :13:17. | :13:18. | |
tsunami warning in place, but it looks to be that the people on the | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
coast are not going to be struck by a large disaster. Is it your sense | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
they are taking the evacuation measures seriously, or are they | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
staying put? It is hard to save from here what ordinary people are doing. | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
I think the response from the government and the national | :13:40. | :13:41. | |
broadcaster to call for people to evacuate immediately, is, if you | :13:42. | :13:48. | |
like, a response to what happened in 2011 when so many people ignore the | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
evacuation orders and ignored the alarms and were caught in their | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
homes and were killed when that massive wave came in. So now, | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
whenever there is an earthquake of this scale offshore, particularly of | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
the north-east coast of Japan, there tends to be a much quicker... We | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
have just lost Rupert, but he was speaking to us from Tokyo. | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
Last week was a torrid one for the independent inquiry | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
Newsnight revealed that yet another barrister | :14:17. | :14:18. | |
And the largest survivors' group involved in the inquiry | :14:19. | :14:21. | |
This week it faces more uncomfortable questions. Tonights | :14:22. | :14:41. | |
another senior lawyer who has ribs and a victims families in two Major | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
enquiries tells us that the child sexual abuse enquiry is crumbling. | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
Chilcot, MacPherson. Bloody Sunday. When major national enquiries to | :14:50. | :15:06. | |
eventually report they can deliver enduring change. But for the | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
independent inquiry into child sexual abuse a triumphant end feels | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
a long way away. Today at Westminster there were more calls | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
for the government to intervene. He has lost seven senior lawyers, three | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
cheers and several survivors groups and it is now impossible to see that | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
this inquiry is still effectively operating. This may be the last | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
chance that the Prime Minister and her Home Secretary had to rescue the | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
inquiry that she set up from collapse. It is essential that this | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
inquiry is an independent inquiry. The terms of reference of this | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
inquiry were shaped with the voices and the opinions of the victims and | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
it is very important that this independence is maintained. It was | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
high summer when the last decamped for a public hearing. That was | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
before all those departures. So what's gone wrong with the inquiry? | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
One theory goes that it has simply been asked to look at far too much. | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
But talk to some of those familiar with its workings and they will say | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
that is not the case, its goals are fairly well defined and in principle | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
it should be able to do its job. Instead they point to some other | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
very well documented issues around some of the key personalities in the | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
inquiry, issues they say have contributed to a sense of | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
dysfunction. We have got to stage now down the line where it has | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
crumbled. There is no other word for it, it has crumbled. What has gone | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
seriously wrong here is a dismal failure to consult with the | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
survivors groups from the beginning. About appointments. And about the | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
substantial of materials which have to be assembled. Secondly the actual | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
appointment of the cheer have been inappropriate, one after another. | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
Just how many mistakes can you make? And some of the groups are saying | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
have these mistakes he made on purpose? The current chair of the | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
inquiry suggest there might be a different agenda at place. Professor | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
Alexis Jay has spoken of forces that do not want dark institutional | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
failings brought into the light. Victims and survivors have to feel | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
they are coming to a safe place and thus far the inquiry is being | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
painted by these outside influences, sometimes aided and abetted by the | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
media, as being an unsafe place. I am in there every week and I don't | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
recognise it as an unsafe place. I see a lot of good people doing a lot | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
of hard work but there have been individuals that have come and gone | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
and clearly it was not the place for them to be. Inquiry will receive | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
more attention this week. The home affairs select committee has written | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
to a number of former lawyers in the inquiry asking for information and | :17:59. | :18:01. | |
their responses are due to be published. But Newsnight understands | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
that the inquiry has told those lawyers not to cooperate in any | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
meaningful way with the committee. Those who accuse the inquiry of the | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
lack of transparency are unlikely to be impressed. However it is | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
understood that one of those lawyers has sent a substantial reply | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
regardless. Newsnight has previously revealed how the inquiry scrapped | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
investigations into Ben Emmerson, its most senior lawyer despite being | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
told of an accusation of sexual assault in a left at the inquiry | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
offices, an accusation he strongly denies. To date the inquiry has | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
brushed off criticism of how it handled that claim by simply saying | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
we have never received an actual complaint. But it is understood this | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
is a subject that the man who once the inquiry second most senior | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
barrister addresses in his letter to MPs. As well as his role with the | :18:53. | :18:59. | |
inquiry he is an expert on how institutions should act when they | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
receive information on potential wrongdoing but received no official | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
complaint. It is understood Mr Davies is highly critical of the | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
handling of the disclosure. For some the inquiry us to have the survivors | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
on board to succeed. We get our assurances that it's going to be all | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
right on the night, well I am afraid I don't accept that, I would want to | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
get in and see how bad it is. It looks extremely bad from the outside | :19:27. | :19:33. | |
and I cannot see how ploughing on without the main actor, this is | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
Hamlet without Hamlet. The defenders of the inquiry say it is doing good | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
work. They point to the truth project for many survivors of abuse | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
have been recording your story. Let the inquiry get on with its job the | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
defenders say it but others have unanswered questions. | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
The oppulent gilded lobby of Trump Towers | :19:56. | :19:57. | |
of besuited visitors over the last few days. | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
Cabinet hopefuls, foreign leaders, business associates. | :20:01. | :20:01. | |
So seamlessly have they processed towards the President-elect, | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
it hasn't been entirely clear who's there for business | :20:05. | :20:06. | |
Donald Trump, we understand now, likes to do things differently. | :20:07. | :20:12. | |
He choses Twitter over press conferences, family council over | :20:13. | :20:14. | |
special advisors, his own hotels over buildings of state. | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
For anyone else, the business of presiding over America | :20:20. | :20:21. | |
would be a call to put all other interests aside. | :20:22. | :20:24. | |
Is the opacity, the blurring of lines just initial confusion | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
with an office maybe he himself never expected to win? | :20:32. | :20:33. | |
I'm joined now by Richard Painter, the White House lawyer who advised | :20:34. | :20:41. | |
President George W Bush on ethics in government. | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
Richard Painter a very nice to speak to you this evening, as an ethics | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
lawyer what do you see at the moment that you don't like? Well, the first | :20:52. | :20:58. | |
thing I have to say is that the corruption potential in a Trump | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
Administration is a serious problem and something we are going to have | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
to sort out in the United States. But our friends across the Atlantic | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
in England and Europe and around the world ought to take comfort in the | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
fact that Donald Trump's personal and business life has absolutely | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
nothing to do with what he said during the campaign. His personal | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
life has nothing to do with the claptrap of the social conservative | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
religious conservatives he pandered to. He had friends in the Islamic | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
community, particularly rich Muslims to whom he sold apartments and did | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
business deals over many years and like most American businessmen he | :21:37. | :21:43. | |
has made enormous amount of money off global, nurse. So the notion | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
that the United States is somehow going to retreat from global | :21:49. | :21:50. | |
commerce under President Trump is almost a joke. So we will have to | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
sort out the corruption problems and there are many of them but I do not | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
see this presidency going in the direction that he talked about | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
simply in order to pander to white working-class voters with their | :22:06. | :22:12. | |
protectionist agenda. You sound as if you are reassured by the breath | :22:13. | :22:15. | |
and skill of his business interests if anything but you keep returning | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
to this word corruption and that is quite a fierce charge, what do you | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
worry about? There is potential for corruption here when you have a | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
president who has enormous business holdings all over the world and is | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
supposed to be conducting the affairs of the United States | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
government and supervising people throughout the executive branch who | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
are conducting the business of the United States government. We have a | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
whole range of problems that could come up, people will be peppering | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
his businesses with lawsuits, the plaintiffs lawyers in the United | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
States are more than happy to go after President Trump. They can sue | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
at the drop of a hat, do not have took pay the losers these if they | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
sue and lose as they would in other parts of the world. We saw how | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
litigation against the President worked out under President Clinton | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
and I think this will be a very bad situation if President Trump does | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
not dispose of these assets around the world. Another problem is the | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
potential for foreign government money to get into the Trump business | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
empire to his financial benefit and that would be prohibited by the | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
emoluments clause of the United States Constitution. We have that | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
provision because of the practice in the 18th century of the Crown in | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
England, Great Britain, of giving emollients to members of Parliament, | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
we did not want that going on. Explained to us, who steps in? You | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
are an ethics lawyer, Donald Trump has done everything differently, he | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
has got Congress entirely on his side in terms of the Republican | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
base, so who would actually step in and tell him that he is doing wrong? | :24:01. | :24:07. | |
I am not sure Congress will be on his side, each member of Congress is | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
in it for themselves in their own district. I don't think the | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
Republican members of Congress are going to put up with a situation | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
where the president appears to be benefiting financially from his | :24:21. | :24:28. | |
public office, in particular I get back to this concern about money | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
coming in from foreign governments because that is specifically | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
prohibited under our Constitution so he is going at a minimum to have to | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
make absolutely sure that are linked with the Bank of China, with | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
sovereign wealth funds, these diplomats staying in Trump hotels, | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
all of that is going to have to be cleansed of any impression of a | :24:49. | :24:56. | |
gift. OK, Richard Painter, thank you very much. We should say we do not | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
know what is going on, there has been denials of any impropriety in | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
his business dealings so far, Richard Painter thank you very much. | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
What does the Prime Minister have to do to help business? | :25:08. | :25:09. | |
Today she told the CBI she was going to help them | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
by offering support to entrepreneurs and innovative companies. | :25:13. | :25:14. | |
But - when you speak to businesses themseves - | :25:15. | :25:16. | |
Well the boss of the biggest tech company in this country has told | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
Newsnight that the Government needs to bring in a radical reform | :25:22. | :25:23. | |
of the tax system to create something that suits | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
The man in question is called Stephen Kelly - | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
boss of the software giant Sage, and he's been talking | :25:30. | :25:31. | |
This plan for a radical tax reform, what is it? Stephen Kelly is a | :25:32. | :25:44. | |
significant voice in British business because he runs Sage which | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
is the largest take company in the UK. Also he was at one time the | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
chief operating officer for the government. So he knows how the tax | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
system works. I have been talking to him about exactly the challenges are | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
facing Britain at the moment. Lots of thoughts but they sympathise into | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
two things, firstly his complaints about the tax system and that is | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
also because the impact of the Digital economy. Companies like | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
Amazon and Google and Facebook and where do they pay their taxes? He | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
thinks these two things blend into one around business rates, that's | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
something we've had for centuries, brought in during the reign of the | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
first Queen Elizabeth and he says it's now an arcane link between | :26:34. | :26:35. | |
property and tax because so much money is generated digitally, not | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
least by Amazon and Google, companies who don't pay historic | :26:40. | :26:46. | |
amounts of tax but generate massive amounts of revenue. Stephen Kelly | :26:47. | :26:49. | |
has told us that he thinks there should be an overview of the tax | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
system and a complete rethinking of it, looking at money hurt online and | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
crucially he is proposing the complete abolition of business | :26:58. | :26:58. | |
rates. Actually, I think it's down | :26:59. | :27:00. | |
to the government to step up and have a radical reform of the tax | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
system to make it fair. If you asked any executive | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
they want to be fair and they want to pay tax | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
in the appropriate jurisdiction, but it is down to the government | :27:11. | :27:12. | |
to make sure the simplicity of the tax system really represents | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
the way where physical presence, like property, have very little | :27:19. | :27:20. | |
meaning in 2016. It may have meant something 400 | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
years ago when there was no Internet, but the Internet | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
has changed everything. And you can see through | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
the prevalence of online shopping, the whole kind of focus | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
and the shift towards a digital economy that effectively a tax | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
system created in the essence of Genesis 400 years ago makes | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
no sense today. Is he worried about taking on the | :27:42. | :27:52. | |
big giants? He is but he runs a very big company himself. And remember he | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
has worked in the States and here, and all you need is one clever idea | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
and you can generate a huge company, so I asked him having worked on both | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
sides of the Atlantic what advice would you give to British take | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
companies? There is a difference in terms of not just the philosophy of | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
technology and how you embrace it but also the culture and the | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
attitudes we have. I would probably say looking at the difference in the | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
UK we are more anxious and there is a bit of fear of failure, in the US | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
we encourage the culture where we fail fast and learn and grow. So I | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
think if there is a lesson to be learnt from silicon valley it is | :28:34. | :28:38. | |
probably that we should abandon that fear of failure. Stephen Kelly the | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
boss of Sage speaking to Adam Parsons earlier. | :28:43. | :28:44. | |
Tony Blair - Labour's most electorally successful leader ever - | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
will not be returning to front line politics and will not be seeking | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
Those in his inner circle say they would not be surprised to see | :28:53. | :28:59. | |
the former PM reappear - and indeed the frequency | :29:00. | :29:01. | |
with which he reminds us how vacant the centre ground is does little | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
to dispell the notion he is measuring up | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
He wants - his office tells us - to remain part of the debate. | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
He is also reported to be looking for a new base in London now. | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
So would Tony Blair be warmly welcomed into | :29:16. | :29:17. | |
Or is he seen as a busted - and still toxic - flush? | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
Brexiteers - who believe the latter - are getting quite excited | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
Joining me now Caroline Lucas, joint leader of the Greens, | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
and John McTernan, former advisor to Tony Blair. | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
Very nice to have you both here. John, is your sense there is | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
something rippling below the waters, he would like to come back despite | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
the denials? People are getting very excited, he is biggest political | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
figure of our era and people cannot stop talking about him because | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
everybody wants him back in some way, shape or form. He has not gone | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
away, has been commenting and talking on politics. Had a great | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
essay in the new European about the challenges of Brexit. When you say | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
everyone wants him back in any way shape or form, you mean his enemies | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
want him back, but not on their side? No, it is nearly a decade | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
since he stopped being Prime Minister and stopped being an MP and | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
we are on television talking about him. For Labour, he was the last | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
time Labour won anything? He was the last time Labour won anything, but | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
the idea that it qualifies him now to come back after everything with | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
the Iraq war and the dodgy dealings with dictators and take some moral | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
high ground in our political debate now beggars belief. John needs to | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
get out more, people are not begging for him to come back. The last few | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
months, if it has told us anything, the political establishment is not | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
held in a great deal of respect now. And Tony Blair, the way he is | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
associated with that, the idea he would be a good spokesperson for the | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
remain campaign or anything else right now is ludicrous. He might | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
have this lightning rod for everybody who hates New Labour, | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
hates remain and the Iraq war, all your enemies could target on this | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
one thing. Half the country voted to stay in the European Union and | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
people are thinking about the vote, car workers did not vote for | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
tariffs. Wouldn't you like to have a strong voice like that? I wouldn't | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
want it to be Tony Blair. What John doesn't recognise is the message she | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
gives might not be the problem but the messenger is. He is | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
fundamentally contaminated. People don't see that. Get out in the real | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
world, people are not talking about Tony Blair in anything other than | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
regretful terms because it is a lost opportunity. He could have been a | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
wonderful advocate but he is fatally compromised and fatally | :32:04. | :32:05. | |
contaminated. We have a Prime Minister not up to the job, we have | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
a leader of an opposition whose ambition is to make the Labour Party | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
ultraleft and we have Tim Farron representing the centre ground. | :32:15. | :32:22. | |
Someone who is known for lying, taken the country to an illegal and | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
immoral war under a false prospectus, is that what the country | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
is crying out for? It is not just about what the Greens thing, it is | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
abuse. It is ridiculous. Does that tell you how empty the ground is | :32:38. | :32:49. | |
then, if somebody, from... From this perspective from Brexit, you would | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
welcome it but can you tolerate the thought? Caroline represents a | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
strand of thought is way to the left of the Labour Party, more | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
destructive than John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn. Tony Blair has said, | :33:05. | :33:12. | |
the vast bulk of British people are unrepresented in British politics. | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
There is no voice. Come back to the idea that Tony Blair is the person | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
to fill that space is wrong. We have the Greens, the Lib Dems, the | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
Nationalists and some in Labour who are doing their best to fill that | :33:26. | :33:34. | |
space. Mr Chilcott, thought the boil would be lanced, he has done his | :33:35. | :33:43. | |
time, got to move forward now, is there in which he can move forward? | :33:44. | :33:51. | |
I say it with regret because he is charismatic, he has huge | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
communication skills. In many ways, he is a brilliant communicator but | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
he is contaminated. That is a voice that will echo throughout TV sets at | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
home. Labour voters when polled said they would rather have Tony Blair as | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
leader of the Labour Party than Jeremy Corbyn. It is not surprising | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
because Tony Blair today, articulate a vision of where Britain should go. | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
Far more powerful and profound than any leading politician of any of the | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
major political parties at the moment. If there wasn't a vacuum at | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
the heart of British politics, we wouldn't be so excited and obsessed | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
with Tony Blair. Caroline just talks and talks about him, like a lot | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
of... I didn't talk about him until I was asked to come here. People go | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
on about Tony, you fascinate them. He is a global figure. What you are | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
both saying, from the remain perspective, the job is not being | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
done properly for you. Not by anybody in the House of Commons. I | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
disagree, it is a shame Labour is not united on this and Labour should | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
be making a stronger case in holding the government to account when it | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
comes to Article 50, when it comes to the terms. Tony Blair is the only | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
person who can do this now? That is what I disagree with. Labour voters, | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
remain voters are being betrayed by Jeremy Corbyn. We have a Brexit vote | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
which is a consequence of the betrayal of Jeremy Corbyn. In that | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
space there is backing for thinking outside the Labour Party and | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
thinking outside the House of Commons. The Brexit vote was fuelled | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
in part that people don't trust politicians any more. Why don't they | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
trust them any more, not least because of the way Tony Blair took | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
us to war. I sorry, but it is true. Thank you both. | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
To some Edward Snowden is a hero, a whistleblower who exposed | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
the extraordinary extent of the United States's surveillance | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
To others, notably the US government, the former spook | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
is a traitor who must stand trial - if he ever emerges from Russia, | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
where he says he's been grounded since his passport was revoked. | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
A feature film based on Snowden's story is coming | :36:02. | :36:03. | |
to a cinema near you, through the good offices of | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
Playing the lead is actor Joseph Gordon Levitt, | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
who has made his own study of the relationship | :36:11. | :36:12. | |
He's been talking to our Culture Correspondent Stephen Smith. | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
There's something going on inside the government that's | :36:20. | :36:21. | |
I just want to get this data to the world. | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
It is from his point of view trying to get inside of his head. | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
I feel like I'm made to do this and if I don't do it, | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
then I don't know anyone else who can. | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
What I found, when you have conversations about Edward Snowden, | :36:43. | :36:44. | |
it matters less about the technology, the policy, | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
you can tell them all the facts about why mass surveillance | :36:49. | :36:50. | |
is unconstitutional, but what they want | :36:51. | :36:52. | |
If you take more than eight, you will fail. | :36:53. | :37:09. | |
The Snowdon of Oliver Stone's film is a patriot and a tech nerd. | :37:10. | :37:21. | |
Injured out of the Army, he becomes a rookie spook, | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
designing a covert communications network | :37:26. | :37:26. | |
You don't have to tell me when you have completed a stage. | :37:27. | :37:43. | |
No, I finished the whole thing. | :37:44. | :37:44. | |
I believe you went to see him in Moscow? | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
How did you find him, what was that like? | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
I have been really fortunate in my life that I've got to meet | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
a lot of people who I admire a lot, but at Edward Snowdon | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
This is a guy that risked his life to stand up for what he believes in. | :38:02. | :38:11. | |
I think he appears as himself doesn't he at the end of | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
He's living in Moscow now and a lot of his critics like to use that | :38:15. | :38:24. | |
against him and say, then he must be working | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
The truth is, what happened he went to Hong Kong to hand | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
the information he took over to select set journalists. | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
The government knows we have these documents now. | :38:37. | :38:45. | |
The CIA could barge through this door at any minute and | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
Act like a (SOUND DIPS) journalist and stop stringing us along. | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
But a lot of people in your country would say he is a traitor | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
and would like to see him stand trial? | :38:56. | :38:57. | |
Any time someone stands up to a powerful authority throughout | :38:58. | :38:59. | |
history, that powerful authority tries to discredit them. | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
It's a question of government being accountable to the people. | :39:02. | :39:09. | |
Whether or not mass surveillance is right or wrong, that is a discussion | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
we can have and I think there are valid points on both sides. With | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
roles in blockbusters like Inception Gordon Levitt is on a good street. | :39:22. | :39:27. | |
Did his agent won him a controversial Oliver Stone movie | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
might not be a smart career move. How do I'd drop you without gravity. | :39:34. | :39:41. | |
A lot of people said that to me. They said, what you're saying, | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
controversial figure, polarising in the United States, you have to think | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
about the commercial viability of your career. I don't think those | :39:49. | :39:56. | |
people are wrong. But I just, I don't know, I couldn't make my | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
decisions on that kind of thinking. A lot of my friends are very | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
concerned about the fact we give away so much information about | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
ourselves very freely, but we don't think about the consequences. What | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
power we are giving to someone else. Actor Enyeama Watson and others | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
debate over sharing and the relationship between technology and | :40:19. | :40:26. | |
democracy. I am optimistic about technology. I tend to think the | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
Internet, it provides us with so much information, so much connection | :40:33. | :40:35. | |
from person to person, it is a great thing. I never really stopped for a | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
moment to think of any of the potential pitfalls this new | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
technology might have. This film is a cautionary tale about those | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
pitfalls. Most Americans don't want freedom, they want security, it is a | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
simple bargain. Good girl, good girl. Incidentally, supplies the | :40:57. | :41:06. | |
real pleasure of this act to cover chewing the scenery as a | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
Machiavellian spy craft. Where is the modern battlefield soldier? | :41:13. | :41:14. | |
Everywhere. Before we go, here's | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
something to savour. The grammy-winning mezzo-soprano | :41:18. | :41:19. | |
Joyce DiDomato is in the UK this week for a performance | :41:20. | :41:22. | |
of her new collection, In War Peace - | :41:23. | :41:24. | |
Harmony through Music. The album is all about the healing | :41:25. | :41:26. | |
power of music in an epoch And we're lucky enough | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
to have her here tonight, accompanied by the ensemble il | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
Pomodoro, to perform MUSIC: "Handel's Lascia | :41:34. | :42:26. | |
ch'io pianga." | :42:27. | :42:35. |