25/11/2016 Newsnight


25/11/2016

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.


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Transcript


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They argued about the common market after the 1975 referendum.

:00:07.:00:08.

Are you suggesting that from now on, you and others who feel

:00:09.:00:11.

like you should continue a Parliamentary struggle to get

:00:12.:00:14.

And the arguments continue after the June vote as well.

:00:15.:00:23.

Experts and economics have continued to divide opinion

:00:24.:00:24.

A former Chancellor and one of his former advisors

:00:25.:00:32.

are on different sides of the debate.

:00:33.:00:37.

As the scandal over child sex abuse within football escalates,

:00:38.:00:39.

we ask whether football's governing body did enough to

:00:40.:00:42.

Also tonight, Erdogan overcame the coup in Turkey months ago.

:00:43.:00:48.

But his purge of public servants continues.

:00:49.:00:50.

We hear from one man caught up in it.

:00:51.:00:54.

So they accused you of being a Gulenist simply on the strength

:00:55.:00:58.

of finding one book by him in your university office?

:00:59.:01:03.

Yes, I mean, that's the only evidence they can talk of.

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And tomorrow is the 40th birthday of this...

:01:10.:01:12.

# We're so pretty, Oh, so pretty

:01:13.:01:15.

Has punk gone all establishment on us?

:01:16.:01:29.

One prediction made before June was that our Brexit referendum

:01:30.:01:33.

It's one of the predictions that has come true.

:01:34.:01:36.

Sir John Major and Tony Blair have both weighed into the debate,

:01:37.:01:39.

suggesting that there may sometime be a second referendum.

:01:40.:01:43.

Brexiteers, meanwhile, have rejoiced at good economic news

:01:44.:01:46.

that they say defies the doom-laden predictions of experts.

:01:47.:01:51.

Business investment grew in the months after the referendum.

:01:52.:01:56.

The experts had expected it to shrink as companies

:01:57.:01:59.

And on this Black Friday, it is right to point out that

:02:00.:02:05.

consumer spending has been holding up, too.

:02:06.:02:07.

At the end of this Autumn Statement week, is it game over?

:02:08.:02:10.

Time for re-moaners to get back in their box?

:02:11.:02:21.

List of the claims about Brexit, and there were many, concerned the

:02:22.:02:28.

long-term effects. -- most of it. Sorry to say we know nothing more

:02:29.:02:32.

about the long-term effects now than we did back then. But some of the

:02:33.:02:37.

claims did concern the short term. Remember these two? They made some

:02:38.:02:40.

predictions based on expert work at the Treasury. This is what happens

:02:41.:02:46.

if Britain leaves. The economy shrinks, the value of the powder

:02:47.:02:51.

falls, inflation rises, unemployment rises, real wages are hit, as are

:02:52.:02:55.

house prices, and as a result, government borrowing goes up...

:02:56.:03:03.

Let's hear those again. This is what happens if Britain leaves. The

:03:04.:03:07.

economy shrinks. This one really has failed to materialise so far. It

:03:08.:03:11.

does look like being a slowdown next year but far from a recession. This

:03:12.:03:15.

was the most important claim and I think we can declare it on course to

:03:16.:03:19.

be false. But there was another important claim. The value of

:03:20.:03:28.

sterling falls. It is currently down 11% but has been as low as 16. I

:03:29.:03:32.

think we can now declare that one true. Inflation rises... Thanks to

:03:33.:03:38.

the falling sterling, that does look likely... To- to now. House prices

:03:39.:03:54.

are hit... House prices have not shown any sign of falling. Is that

:03:55.:03:59.

where it ends? And as a result, government borrowing goes up. That

:04:00.:04:04.

one is kind of true relative to Budget predictions, but as yet,

:04:05.:04:08.

nothing to do with Brexit. Ignore this one and you have a draw. Oxford

:04:09.:04:16.

Street is buzzing on a Black Friday evening. And that is a Leave win.

:04:17.:04:27.

But it would be silly to deride the forecasters. They know better than

:04:28.:04:30.

anyone because what they do is have an intelligent stab at what we know

:04:31.:04:35.

about the future. They cannot give a precise and definitive guide as to

:04:36.:04:39.

what will happen. The good news we had on business investment today...

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Don't read too much into one quarter's data.

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Here's the graph of business investment growth over the last few

:04:48.:04:52.

years. In such an erratic series, would you read much into the little

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bar on the far right-hand side? For some, that figure, published today,

:04:57.:05:03.

is Brexit is working. You might as well stand on the

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seashore trying to work out whether the tide is coming or going.

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Excitedly commenting on each wave as it comes in! No, stop overthinking

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it, get a cup of tea. We will know in time.

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Let's talk now to the former Chancellor of

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And in Cardiff is the Economist Professor Patrick Minford.

:05:22.:05:28.

He was one of the so-called wise men advising Ken Clarke. Ken Clarke,

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what is your appraisal of the evidence? Do you concede at least

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some of the more you read fears have failed to materialise and we can

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relax on those? I didn't campaign on new rich short-term fears, and the

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truth is that the national media campaigning was pretty silly. Some

:05:50.:05:54.

of the daft things were said on both sides. The other side were

:05:55.:05:59.

concentrating on 77 million Turks coming here and that we tap -- we

:06:00.:06:03.

would have ?350 million a week for the health service if we left. But

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there is a serious debate. Your piece answered its own question. All

:06:08.:06:12.

this silly day by day commentary on one set of figures going up and

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down, another company investing or not, that is ridiculous. We haven't

:06:17.:06:21.

even left yet. The question of the referendum was, should we leave? It

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has hundreds of questions wrapped up in it and we won't really know the

:06:26.:06:34.

economic consequences of Brexit if we do go ahead until we know whether

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or not we are staying in the single market or the customs unit. This

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wasn't even discussed during the referendum. Professor Patrick

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Minford, have you taken heart or do you think it is of no interest at

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all, because we simply don't know? The evidence since we have the

:06:51.:06:54.

referendum result has been very clear. It is that the economy has

:06:55.:06:58.

been strong. That's the evidence we've got. Unemployment has fallen,

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employment has been strong. We have indeed had the fall in sterling,

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which was universally expected, including by our side, and that has

:07:11.:07:14.

stimulated the economy in a help you sort of way and be necessary because

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we had a big balance of payments deficit. -- a healthy way. So

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actually the economy has cruised along and has had a 2-3% growth. So

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we haven't had all these uncertainty effects they talked about... Sorry,

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quite a few economists said they would be a short-term shock. Gerard

:07:40.:07:43.

Lyons talked about this. There was quite a bit of talk of a short-term

:07:44.:07:50.

shock. So it wasn't just the Remain campaign who said that. So I don't

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know how you can talk about that when we haven't even made the exit

:07:56.:08:02.

yet. But the uncertainty that was not going to happen and it hasn't

:08:03.:08:06.

happened. If anything we should be positive, because the outlook is

:08:07.:08:10.

either through a clean Brexit, as it is called, where we go to free trade

:08:11.:08:14.

with the rest of the world, which will be a positive, or it is the

:08:15.:08:19.

status quo if you go with a soft Brexit. So the uncertainty effect

:08:20.:08:23.

was always nonsense and we said that. Whereas in the short run there

:08:24.:08:29.

would be a shock. I said it would be neutral and that's exactly what has

:08:30.:08:35.

happened. Ken Clarke, do you think Treasury officials' analysis is

:08:36.:08:40.

subject to what one might call political or cognitive bias that

:08:41.:08:45.

shape the analysis they deliver? Welcome with great respect to

:08:46.:08:48.

Patrick and the tiny number of economists who agreed with him

:08:49.:08:51.

during the referendum, and I have genuine respect for him, as a

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distinguished economist, but you will -- you must admit you are a bit

:08:56.:09:03.

of a maverick! We get on well. We still do. But the data from the

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OECD, the Bank of England, they weren't talking about headlines.

:09:12.:09:15.

They are talking about the lasting consequences. At the moment there

:09:16.:09:19.

are some short-term worrying things. A crash in sterling by over 15% at

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one point is not sort of good news. We've devalued by almost 40% since

:09:26.:09:31.

2006. We still have a terrible balance of trade. We have the worst

:09:32.:09:35.

current account deficit in our history. The economy is still

:09:36.:09:38.

buoyant but consumer debt is rising to very high levels. The background

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of uncertainty is putting off some investors. You've only got to talk

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to Japanese, Americans, others looking at this country, and

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everything depends on what the strategy of the government is going

:09:53.:09:55.

to be. And the key thing in the short term, we're only looking at

:09:56.:10:02.

the economics and trade bit, not our political role in the world, which

:10:03.:10:07.

was based in the EU in the past, but the key thing is, will we keep in

:10:08.:10:11.

the customs union and the single market? Because it help the economy

:10:12.:10:19.

to not have access. Your predictions and forecasts, and you do make those

:10:20.:10:23.

as an economist, Patrick, you are predicting the stock market will be

:10:24.:10:30.

from 6500 up to one -- 11,000 any year's time, which is an

:10:31.:10:35.

extraordinary assessment! I'm not looking to invest! Would you say

:10:36.:10:40.

your mindset shapes your forecast? Not at all. We did an analysis of

:10:41.:10:44.

the long-term trade effects of going to a free market. Everybody knows

:10:45.:10:49.

free trade with the world and a lot of countries, with agreements, and

:10:50.:10:56.

free trade setting no tariffs if we possibly can against the EU, that is

:10:57.:11:01.

good for the economy, so we did our basic analysis on the long-term

:11:02.:11:07.

prospects of free trade and less regulation. Our own regulation. And

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our control of unskilled immigration, which cost us a lot of

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money, because of the welfare costs from the EU. Let me just say this,

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Evan. You've got to listen! We did this analysis of these long-term

:11:23.:11:26.

things and we also did the analysis of the uncertainty effect, and we

:11:27.:11:31.

said all that stuff about the recession said by George Osborne was

:11:32.:11:35.

nonsense. There hasn't been a recession. You are right about the

:11:36.:11:39.

long-term. It hasn't yet happened. But things like the office the

:11:40.:11:42.

budget responsibility said investment will be hit but it is not

:11:43.:11:47.

being hit. And nor is consumer spending. We've got to move on but I

:11:48.:11:52.

definitely want to talk to you in a year's time. I will be delighted to

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do so! Can I not come back after the result? He's busted you out. Well,

:12:01.:12:06.

that is Patrick! Thank you both to you.

:12:07.:12:09.

Allegations of historical child sex abuse within football

:12:10.:12:11.

are now being investigated by four police forces.

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This comes after four former footballers gave emotional testimony

:12:14.:12:15.

on the Victoria Derbyshire Show this morning about their experience

:12:16.:12:17.

of being abused as children by ex-Crewe Alexandra coach Barry

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Let's hear a clip of two of them, Chris Unsworth and Andy Woodward.

:12:21.:12:27.

I don't know if I'm that strong, I don't know.

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Deep down I don't think I am but I'm now...

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I'm a funeral director, I see lots of horrible things,

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so that's probably made me a little bit stronger than

:12:37.:12:38.

I love Andy to bits and I'm here because of him.

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Andy, you've done a quite remarkable thing, you know?

:12:49.:12:51.

Last week I was on here, I was on my own, and I was

:12:52.:13:00.

so scared, but I knew that they were here.

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And tonight The Guardian is reporting that Crewe Alexandra

:13:06.:13:08.

directors were warned about similar allegations against Mr Bennell

:13:09.:13:11.

but allowed him to remain at the club for a number of years,

:13:12.:13:14.

despite the club's chairman at the time calling

:13:15.:13:16.

Let's talk now to Mark Palios, Chief Executive of the Football

:13:17.:13:20.

He himself was a professional footballer for Crewe Alexandra

:13:21.:13:26.

in the early '80s, before Barry Bennell's

:13:27.:13:27.

A very good evening to you. So you weren't there when Bennell was

:13:28.:13:40.

there. Did you ever hear intimations, gossip about him? Did

:13:41.:13:45.

the grapevine ever send any signal that way to you? No. There was

:13:46.:13:51.

absolutely no indication that this was a problem or an issue. Right

:13:52.:13:57.

through my entire career. And I've spent 17 years with professional

:13:58.:14:00.

football clubs. I never came across this as an issue. But as I said, in

:14:01.:14:06.

previous interviews, I think one has two except that... I don't think

:14:07.:14:13.

there was a cover-up but it is a very match a culture in professional

:14:14.:14:17.

football. As a consequence, I think it was difficult for people to

:14:18.:14:21.

surface issues, just as it has been done in the past week or so. So the

:14:22.:14:26.

victims of this he felt they may be didn't want to say anything for all

:14:27.:14:30.

the reasons we've known in the past. Victims have stayed quiet. Hamilton

:14:31.:14:37.

Smith, the director in the late 80s, he has spoken to The Guardian and he

:14:38.:14:41.

had alerted the directors. He knew reports of things that had going on

:14:42.:14:45.

-- been going on and he sat them down and said, what are we going to

:14:46.:14:49.

do about this? And that would imply... Well, what else would you

:14:50.:14:53.

call it other than a cover-up if no action was taken but certainly the

:14:54.:14:59.

man wasn't dismissed and police weren't called. What would you call

:15:00.:15:04.

that? I can't speak for the directors and how they addressed it

:15:05.:15:07.

at the time but it is interesting. We are looking at something that

:15:08.:15:11.

happened about 30 years ago. And if you were looking at society today, I

:15:12.:15:15.

think there's a different attitude and a different view and culture.

:15:16.:15:21.

Outside of football I think it's easier to sort of surface things

:15:22.:15:25.

like this. And what it does, it points you in a direction of looking

:15:26.:15:31.

at, what do you do with this? And the conclusion that people may well

:15:32.:15:35.

come to as a consequence of this is that a time whereby it becomes an

:15:36.:15:41.

offence if you don't raise the issue, if you don't whistle blow

:15:42.:15:44.

once you have serious concerns raising an individual. There is a

:15:45.:15:48.

duty to report it so at least it can be investigated. Because to be quite

:15:49.:15:52.

honest, one child being abused in this society is one child to many,

:15:53.:15:57.

and maybe that is something society wants to say, not just in football

:15:58.:16:00.

but across all sports and all organisations. When you went to the

:16:01.:16:07.

FA, how much of a preoccupation and issue was this? How or where were

:16:08.:16:09.

you of this being an issue? It wasn't, it wasn't massively on

:16:10.:16:18.

the agenda of issues which were brought to my attention at the time.

:16:19.:16:22.

The commission as I understand that was ongoing in the background, a

:16:23.:16:26.

combination of both the FA, I think the Premier League and the PFA were

:16:27.:16:31.

looking at child abuse and as a consequence of that commission later

:16:32.:16:36.

on I think they put in place a system of comprehensive proposals

:16:37.:16:40.

and regulations around how academies ran, for example. But it wasn't a

:16:41.:16:45.

massive issue for me on a day-to-day basis. Hamilton Smith, again, the

:16:46.:16:50.

Crewe Alexandra director, said in 2001 he went to the FA, the child

:16:51.:16:55.

protection officer there and said he was worried about how much Barry

:16:56.:17:00.

Bennell had been up to and thought there should be some investigation

:17:01.:17:03.

and he was really given the brush off. He was told after a lapse of

:17:04.:17:07.

time, he was told we have investigated this and there is

:17:08.:17:13.

nothing to see. That does imply that the FA was at least complacent

:17:14.:17:17.

doesn't it? I think society was complacent at the time. I am not

:17:18.:17:21.

justifying, I don't know the issue, I don't know the incident but I

:17:22.:17:24.

would suggest you have to look at it in the context of what was going on

:17:25.:17:28.

in this country at the time and maybe there was a complacency that

:17:29.:17:33.

wasn't warranted but that is what the situation was. I think

:17:34.:17:37.

subsequent to that, one has to look at what has happened since and the

:17:38.:17:40.

standards and regulations around how you deal with children have

:17:41.:17:50.

significantly been tightened. For example, if an individual is

:17:51.:17:53.

injured, a child is injured, you would not take him in a car on your

:17:54.:17:57.

own as a coach back to the copper treatment, they would be at least

:17:58.:18:01.

two you would take him in a group, if it was not serious you would take

:18:02.:18:06.

them in a group back to the whole issue of putting yourself at risk,

:18:07.:18:10.

of putting yourself in risk of an allegation being falsely made

:18:11.:18:17.

against you has been address. That is something which has been

:18:18.:18:20.

tightened since the 1990s, the 1980s et. Mark Palios, thank you for

:18:21.:18:24.

talking to us. Thanks. Relations between Turkey

:18:25.:18:26.

and the EU were fraught before Turkish President Erdogan today

:18:27.:18:29.

threatened to re-allow migrants to cross over into Greece

:18:30.:18:37.

and western Europe, knowing the trouble that would cause;

:18:38.:18:39.

that was after the European Parliament voted to recommend that

:18:40.:18:41.

talks on EU membership But the international position

:18:42.:18:43.

is nothing as to what is happening Since the coup, 125,000

:18:44.:18:47.

public employees have It is a very different

:18:48.:18:52.

kind of country. Tim Whewell has been to the country

:18:53.:18:54.

to see what the effects are. For one violent, chaotic night

:18:55.:19:04.

this summer Turks defied tanks Now though the hunt

:19:05.:19:06.

for the conspirators has cost more The government says

:19:07.:19:27.

it is cleansing Turkey of a virus. But is it also creating

:19:28.:19:43.

a state of fear? They are trying to

:19:44.:19:46.

eradicate all opposition. What is the real purpose

:19:47.:19:58.

of Turkeys cleansing and has Fethullah Gulen is a 75-year-old

:19:59.:20:01.

Islamic preacher living in self-imposed exile

:20:02.:20:07.

in the United States. He says his aim is simply to promote

:20:08.:20:16.

moderate Islam and education. But the graduates of his many

:20:17.:20:20.

schools formed a powerful But President Erdogan,

:20:21.:20:22.

a former ally of the preacher, claims Gulen actually

:20:23.:20:31.

masterminded the conspiracy. Now the Ministry of Education

:20:32.:20:40.

in Ankara, where many Gulenists worked, is leading the state's

:20:41.:20:42.

efforts to cleanse Turkey Now those alleged infiltrators

:20:43.:20:45.

are being purged. 50,000 were sacked in just one

:20:46.:21:31.

decree published online. On the list are teachers

:21:32.:21:40.

and academics like this history It is profession after profession

:21:41.:21:43.

basically, so many areas of The list just goes

:21:44.:21:51.

on and on and on and on. Associate Professor,

:21:52.:22:05.

Department of history. Now he is an ex-associate professor

:22:06.:22:21.

and his life has fallen apart. Under investigation for links

:22:22.:22:26.

to Gulen he cannot travel abroad, access his own bank account or get

:22:27.:22:31.

any other academic job. A few days before a friend of mine

:22:32.:22:34.

had seen that book in my office and told me, remove this book,

:22:35.:22:45.

nowadays it's dangerous. I told him, that is ridiculous,

:22:46.:22:50.

I am an academic. To make it even more ridiculous,

:22:51.:22:54.

he says, he was using quotations from the book

:22:55.:22:57.

to tweet against Gulen. You can just search my name

:22:58.:23:01.

and Fethullah Gulen on Twitter and you can see,

:23:02.:23:05.

they are from two years ago. He thinks Gulen is a

:23:06.:23:09.

dangerous extremist. I have underlined his words,

:23:10.:23:14.

apostasy in Islam is So they accused you of being

:23:15.:23:16.

a Gulenist simply on the strength of finding one book

:23:17.:23:25.

by him in your I mean, that's the only

:23:26.:23:27.

evidence they can talk of. Isn't there a real atmosphere

:23:28.:23:35.

of fear now in the country? People looking over their shoulder

:23:36.:23:40.

all the time, saying am I about to be denounced

:23:41.:23:44.

simply in order to settle Teachers or others who say they have

:23:45.:23:46.

been wrongly accused can now apply to special

:23:47.:24:17.

government complaint centres. But the state does not expect that

:24:18.:24:20.

many people will be reinstated. Certainly not the 28,000 state

:24:21.:24:24.

school teachers who were purged There is no such evidence

:24:25.:24:26.

against the history lecturer, but he does not think he'll

:24:27.:25:08.

get his job back any time soon. Nowadays everyone is afraid of one

:25:09.:25:12.

day becoming a Gulenist, You don't need evidence and those

:25:13.:25:15.

processes may take years. And you can watch the Our World

:25:16.:25:21.

documentary "Cleansing Turkey" tomorrow and Sunday

:25:22.:25:30.

on the News Channel at 9.30pm Tomorrow's the 40th

:25:31.:25:33.

anniversary of the Sex Pistols You can all hum the words I'm sure;

:25:34.:25:40.

"Don't know what I want, But I know how to get it,

:25:41.:25:46.

I want to destroy the passerby" - surely as relevant as ever

:25:47.:25:49.

to the UK experience. But since then, punk

:25:50.:25:52.

has lost its edge - The son of pioneers Malcolm McLaren

:25:53.:25:54.

and Vivienne Westwood, hitherto best known for his underwear shops,

:25:55.:26:01.

is burning his memorabilia tomorrow, in protest

:26:02.:26:05.

at the de-punking of the form. A lot has been said about the elite

:26:06.:26:09.

this year, but it is funny to think the punks are now the insiders

:26:10.:26:13.

and true rebels this year look more Our own post punk cultural

:26:14.:26:16.

commentator is Stephen Smith. This is how Jeremy Vine and the new

:26:17.:26:35.

look Crimewatch covered it. Over the last 12 months punk rock has become

:26:36.:26:40.

almost a battle cry in British society, for many people it's a

:26:41.:26:45.

bigger threat to our way of life than Russian communism or

:26:46.:26:47.

hyperinflation and it certainly develops more excitement than either

:26:48.:26:54.

of those. From Pastor John Cooper for instance who sees punk as

:26:55.:26:57.

degenerate and evil and from city councillors in London, Glasgow,

:26:58.:27:00.

Birmingham. We beat on, boats against the

:27:01.:27:15.

current, born back ceaselessly into the past on a tide of the nostalgia

:27:16.:27:20.

and spittle. # We are so pretty

:27:21.:27:24.

# Also pretty # We are a vacant

:27:25.:27:29.

# We are so pretty # We are so pretty

:27:30.:27:35.

# Vacant and Warwick. Malcolm McLaren was the spend alley of punk

:27:36.:27:47.

and Vivienne Westwood. But there son says he is setting fire to

:27:48.:27:50.

memorabilia worse millions because Punt is dead and worse has sold out.

:27:51.:27:56.

What would his dad think? With regards to lobbyist takeover of punk

:27:57.:28:02.

rock by the corporate sector and the whole idea that the establishment

:28:03.:28:08.

now owns this as part of the scene that we are going to start calling

:28:09.:28:14.

London, I think had he been alive he would have taken this opportunity to

:28:15.:28:20.

say something about it. Whether he would have agreed with me to burn a

:28:21.:28:23.

lot of it or not, I think he probably would have done. And I

:28:24.:28:28.

think you would think it was kind of hilarious. Do I buy country life but

:28:29.:28:40.

because it's British? Perhaps he has a point. Johnny Rotten did

:28:41.:28:44.

commercials. Was it hits bar? I can't believe it's not that spot.

:28:45.:28:51.

# We don't want it. But an up-and-coming band who consider

:28:52.:28:58.

themselves latter-day punks say Jon Corre has got his knickers in a

:28:59.:29:05.

twist. Stand-by for a punky three chord graphic. What he is doing has

:29:06.:29:10.

been done in a more profound way by the EPLF who burned ?1 million. He

:29:11.:29:15.

is just this sort of privileged man who has come to own all these

:29:16.:29:19.

possessions because of who his parents are. I don't think you

:29:20.:29:24.

should just burn our history. If it's in museums it's there to

:29:25.:29:28.

inspire and influence other people rather than just be, you don't

:29:29.:29:30.

achieve anything by burning it. But destroying artefacts has a

:29:31.:29:46.

certain pedigree. Artist Michael Landy put all his possessions to

:29:47.:29:54.

mangle. So is Jon Corre's act in that situation? Punk always embraces

:29:55.:29:59.

in some way commercials and stunts which is seen as destroying a

:30:00.:30:04.

spectacular or maybe a hoax, we will see. But it's not the spirit of punk

:30:05.:30:09.

because punk is very creative and was a gateway for a whole load of

:30:10.:30:14.

people in the mid-70s to get involved in music, fashion,

:30:15.:30:16.

journalism or any other kind of outlet of energy.

:30:17.:30:25.

Like his old man, this former owner of a lingerie chain is a bit of a

:30:26.:30:32.

provocative. And some believe his bonfire of punk will yet turn out to

:30:33.:30:36.

be no more than a tease. A storm in a teacup.

:30:37.:30:41.

That's all we have time for. I will be back on Monday. Have a good

:30:42.:30:45.

weekend. Good night. A lot of dry weather through this

:30:46.:30:59.

weekend, that the easy bit, a lot of variety also in the weather across

:31:00.:31:03.

various parts of the country, thick

:31:04.:31:04.

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