With Evan Davis. Europe takes another blow as Renzi resigns. Plus the government takes on the judiciary in the Supreme Court and why can't Britain's communities integrate?
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Good grief, does that leave HIM to be the one picking up the pieces?
It's been a difficult year for the EU, and it just got
Are the Brussels institutions capable of recognising
a crisis when it hits them, and then responding to it?
We'll hear the view from Vienna and Rome where votes
have just taken place And ask this commissioner how
Also tonight, you may have seen these aerial shots
We meet the Syrians in the city who are filming them.
And after the riots in 2001, we had reports into social
Are we moving forward, or going round in circles?
We'd all seen it coming, but the deed was done yesterday.
Italian voters chucked out their prime minister Matteo Renzi,
and threw out his plans to make the constitution more decisive.
Economically, it makes reform harder, making it more difficult
Politically it empowers the populist Five Star
Movement which wants a referendum on the euro.
And the political and economic uncertainty adds to the financial
pressure on Italy's damaged banking system.
The implications for Italy are huge, the ramifications
The only good news for the Brussels elite was the fact that Austria
turned away from the far right candidate and elected
We can join Gabriel Gatehouse in Vienna and Mark Urban in Rome.
Let's start with Austria and the Brussels elite is breathing a sigh
of relief. But the glasses only 54% full because 40s 6% of the
population voted for someone on the far right. -- 46%. It is not the end
of the road for the far right Freedom party because there are
likely to be elections next year and they could win the more powerful
Chancellor post instead. Austria really is not the most important
piece of this puzzle. There will be two elections in the first half of
next year that potentially will be fundamental to the future of the
European project. The first in the Netherlands where Goethe builders,
with his deeply Eurosceptic group, is leading in the polls and then of
course the French presidential election with Marine Le Pen almost
certain to reach the second round run-off. Couple that with what is
going on in Italy and some pretty Eurosceptic administration is
already in place in countries like Poland and Hungary and you have
something that is quite combustible. These groups do not all agree on
their critique of the EU, they do not want their own version of the
heart Brexit, they do not even all want to leave the euro but they do
want to reimagine their relationship with the union. I hesitate to make
the comparison but in the past few weeks I have been forcibly reminded
of something that Gorbachev once said about perestroika, but the
soviet union was like a big rusty piece of machinery and he said I
wanted just to tinker with it a bit and loosen the screws but then the
whole thing began to shatter and shake, the screws came loose and all
of a sudden the whole thing collapsed. A good metaphor! Let's go
to Rome. Matteo Renzi will stay on for a few days, what happens next?
What is clear from the referendum, which after all was on quite an
obscure package of constitutional reforms, is there is a huge
undercurrent of discontent with politics as usual here and in
particular with economics as usual. A 70% turnout on the referendum
vote. Once Matteo Renzi has gone through these next few days to put
the budget through, the question is how soon can there be an election in
this country. I have heard people saying between February and April,
but there is not the right legal machinery in place to do that yet
because it is all up in the air because of the package of reforms
that was going through. That means crisis for the next few weeks.
Pressure on the banks and then at the end of it, and election in which
two of the three parties losing in the polls say they want to take
Italy out of the euro. As this most unusual of political
years draws to a close Italy becomes another place where something
exceptional was happening. Government with a large majority
upended by a referendum. A leader routed, his friends argue by his own
sense of honour. There's a lesson that Matteo Renzi gave to the
political establishment in Italy no one resigns. And nobody really wins
elections or loses Rab referendum and everyone remains seated in his
chair. And Matteo Renzi took political responsibility,
accountability. That is an English word with no translation in Italian.
So Prime Minister gets flushed away but that is far from the end this.
Matteo Renzi was in the middle of remaking Italy's electoral Lawes and
help people are represented in their democratic institutions. And that
what has not been completed meaning that they cannot just have a fresh
general election tomorrow. Add to that the fact that the country has
got to pass a national budget before the year is out, and you have a deep
crisis with no one really in control.
People have gathered outside the Prime Minister ill Palace to watch
it play. Matteo Renzi was hoisted not just by constitutional arguments
say his opponents but the apparent inability of Italy to pull itself
out of the economic doldrums. TRANSLATION: The government in
recent years has not delivered on its promises to Italians. And so
turnout was very high, higher than at local elections six months ago.
That is because citizens wanted to say no, that is enough with this
government, that is enough of my terror Renfe, with Europe, the banks
and Angela Merkel. Tonight it emerged that Matteo Renzi has been
asked to stay on a few days longer to finalise Italy's budget for 2017.
Saha along with the new government had to put fresh electoral Lawes in
place, as the markets I upped the tottering Italian banks. Not so
long, I do believe there's usually a measurable financial markets take
the position a little bit before the event, as usual. And now they are in
some kind of stand-by position. But real answers must be given by Italy
as the country, starting with the president of the Republic trying to
arrange another government with specific tasks, the first
immediately to pass the budget law for 2017. That must be by December.
And to have a new electoral law secondly to go to new elections and
give Italy a little bit stronger political government, posted by
Italian citizens. And waiting in the wings is this
man. Beppe Grillo, leader of the Five Star Movement. They campaigned
against Matteo Renzi in the referendum and they are well placed
for any general election. They're complaining to take Italy out of the
euro. How real is that threat now? It is clear that the Five Star
Movement wants to get Italy out of the eurozone. And this is the
paradox of the coalition which supported a note to the
Constitutional reform, it was a real bunch of has-been, former Prime
Minister, a good part of the establishment which struck an
alliance between the neofascists of the extreme right and the populist
Five Star Movement. And this probably is the most, the biggest
paradox of this situation, it was a no without any reality.
For those who beat Matteo Renzi the referendum was a cause for
celebration. It may prove to have been just the appetiser for an
enormous change in politics here. One in which the main course in an
election expected this spring will be whether Italy should stay in the
euro. Well if you add in Brexit, Italy,
far right parties, does it add up to a crisis?
Laszlo Andor is the former European Commissioner for Employment,
Do you think the top brass in the EU recognise this is a manifest crisis
for the EU at the moment or are they hoping it will just go away? I think
there is enough understanding and has been for some time that the
monetary union in its current form is not entirely sustainable and they
will have to be reforms. This has been very slow, decision-making
making obviously should be faster. It does not mean however that people
do not realise that these reforms are needed. I think everyone thinks
it is an economic challenge. What about the political side, that
voters everywhere you give them the chance seem to be saying, whoever it
is up there, we do not really like you. It does not necessarily look as
though the top guard of the EU really get that. A lot of
frustration came up in the Italian referendum but it was not a
referendum about the EU or membership of the EU, any
interpretation would be a distortion in that fashion. This was a domestic
or constitutional question which was raised and there were many
pro-Europeans on both sides of the yes and the no camp yesterday. I
wonder whether that is a little complacent because you can disregard
one vote or another but everywhere, whether Austria, the UK or Italy or
indeed Greece, everywhere you go voters given the chance of voting
for change and when they see the EU it is an institution that moves that
one speed, very slowly. And just cannot change and absorb the
capacity for change that the public currently have? If you really watch
this, the voters voted against change, Matteo Renzi both dashed he
wanted change and the voters voted against that, this was quite a
different thing from what you describe. I think you're not getting
the kind of changed the voters are voting for, they're not writing
about constitutional change, they are voting for changing the guard,
changing the top brass. Do you think for example that Juncker is the
right man to lead the EU through this restaurant is a huge economic
crisis and paralysis in Italy, do you think with this happening on his
watch, he should just stay there and carry on as though nothing is
happening all would be better if he got out of the way and say, the
voters do not like the establishment and we new blood. You are connecting
entirely distinct issues. The leadership of the EU institutions is
organised in a way which is legitimate and based on the treaties
approved by all the member states including Italy, the UK and other
countries. This referendum in Italy was about how to reform the Italian
constitution especially the Senate, how to make decision-making faster,
how to make the political class more cost efficient inside Italy. People
were not asked about Juncker or the European leadership on this issue.
If you want to press this it is just very artificial and misleading I am
afraid. It is interesting that you say that because I'm not sure to the
average British person that it feels that remote, all over Europe people
seem to feel there is a disconnect between their lives and those of the
people governing them. A lot of that is coming out in frustration with
the EU and people watching this would say you're just a part of the
problem. In failing to recognise what is a huge and important
interaction with the voters and trying to dismiss that as a
technical vote on a constitution or a little internal affair. Do not
feel it is bigger than that? There has been a shift in
pro-European opinion because people realise that before the UK
referendum, a lot of politicians, especially in the Leave campaign
were telling lies about the European Union. Now there is a period of
reckoning, a period of understanding of what it means to destabilise the
European Union, what it means and what it costs to leave the European
Union. Of course, a period when people look into these details a lot
more than before and that makes people more pro-European, which we
have seen in the Austrian presidential election, where the
Green candidate winning with a greater margin than he did in the
spring. Thanks. The second, final and decisive
round of the contest between the government
and the judiciary kicked off today with arguments put
in the Supreme Court over whether Parliament has a right to
a say on the invoking of Article 50. We won't get a result for a while,
but TV viewers could watch It was quite heavy going,
and won't I suspect, Our political editor
Nick Watt was watching. Our starter for ten after a day at
the Supreme Court is, what links Freddie Laker, Greenland, the
Bahamas, and a grand hotel now demolished? Yes, these were legal
cases cited as the government sought to overturn a ruling by the High
Court that Brexit negotiations must be triggered by Parliament and not
ministers using ancient royal powers. The government's main QC,
James Eadie, argued ministers need not hold a parliamentary vote. He
said since the inception of Article 50 in the Lisbon Treaty, MPs have
not argued it is up to them to trigger the process. James Eadie was
saying where Parliament has not said, I am taking this power away,
it still rests with the prerogative. He was saying the Royal Prerogative
exists on a separate plane over and above the domestic sphere and unless
Parliament is saying it is taking it away. James Eadie was saying the
European Communities Act, which is at the heart of this case, is merely
a conduit for transposing those international law rights into
domestic law. James Eadie cited the case of a Tameside hotel from the
20s to underline his point. This was an elegant grand hotel on the
Victoria embankment that suddenly got requisitioned by the government
in World War I and there was a statute that said they had to pay a
certain amount of compensation. They said no, we used the Royal
Prerogative to requisition it, we do not have to pay. The Court of Appeal
and House of Lords found they did, because a statute restrained the
prerogative. Whatever the 11 justices decided, this is likely to
be a landmark case. It will not prevent the triggering of Article 50
but it could lead to major alterations in Britain's
constitutional settlement encompassing Royal Prerogative
powers and the role of devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales
and Northern Ireland in UK by decision-making will stop this is a
hugely important constitutional case that goes beyond the issues arising
out of Brexit, because it concerns a part of our Constitution, the Royal
Prerogative, and touches on devolved power to Scotland, Wales and
Northern Ireland. And we have a Supreme Court that... We do not have
a written constitution, but they have an important role in
interpreting the unwritten constitution. I come from... To this
as a traditional conservative. Historically I have always believed
this country manage well with an unwritten constitution. In recent
years I have begun to have doubts and those doubts do not centre on EU
membership, they centre on devolution and managing a system of
devolved power to different parts of the UK and maintaining an overall
framework. I am on record saying I think we need to give careful
thought to whether we shouldn't have some kind of written constitution.
It needn't be a detailed document, but one that sets out a framework
for those relationships. Emotions are running high as the Supreme
Court is asked to rule on how the Brexit negotiations should be
triggered. One You support is relax. The triggering of Article 50 is in
line to start next year and whether the Supreme Court disagrees with the
High Court and says you can crack on, or whether we have to bring a
short bill to the house, Parliament will not frustrate that. They are
acceptable solutions to get on with doing what is a major change to our
constitutional position. Just a stone's throw from Parliament there
is a new kid on the block. The Supreme Court has only sat the seven
years but it is now cementing its position in Britain's ever evolving
constitutional settlement. Rather than argue about how
our constitution works in the supreme court,
could we perhaps codify the rules, so that we know in advance
what the rules are and have Or do we prefer our slightly messy
unwritten rules that perhaps have the capacity to flex
when you need them? Dr Catherine Haddon is from
The Institute for Government. Thanks for coming in. The Dominic
Grieve point, he is coming around to the idea, he might need to codify
things around the Royal Prerogative, particularly devolution. Is that a
good idea? It is difficult to say in circumstances where we have things
in flux. It is almost as if you wanted to do it in advance. There is
so much going on where the constitution is in flux. We are
repatriating powers in the process of leaving the EU. There is a lot we
need to think about in terms of the Constitution, bringing in other
issues in terms of codify in, consolidating our Constitution might
be a step too far at the moment. A lot of people are deeply attracted
to the idea of having a proper written constitution so you know
what the rules are. Does that lead to more dispute because in the US
they seem to argue about nothing but constitutional rights, or does it
resolve disputes to write it down? It is difficult to know. What we are
seeing at the moment, the Supreme Court deciding on this issue, is in
effect what we could see more of. You have different issues. The
question about transparency, do we understand the constitution, should
it be consolidated? The issue of whose authority decides the
constitution? The Supreme Court Parliament, the government? And
prerogative powers, but they are Tom when they should adapt. The
complicated thing about the UK, Parliament is sovereign and reign
supreme so the parliament if it wants to can abolish the Supreme
Court, Kartik? Or you have a written constitution voted in by Parliament
and pine and can abolish the ring constitution. Parliament, isn't that
the principle that governs everything? It is, the
democratically elected... Dictatorship! Part of our government
so it can legislate for these things. There are checks and
balances in the system, similar to the US. The rule of law is obviously
one of those and we have seen judicial reviews since the 70s form
part of that. This is dramatic and more important but in a sense it is
a continuation of the travel we have seen. Parliament can legislate and
create a Bill of Rights which it has talked about many times. It could
legislate to change Royal prerogatives, put it on the statue
books. It did it with a fixed term parliaments acts that changed Royal
Prerogative into an act of Parliament. The ability to call an
election. The monarch's right to dissolve parliament. It caused
confusion in OK you might want to amend it further you cannot turn it
back into a Royal Prerogative. You could repeal the act. And give the
Prime Minister the power to call the election. Constitutional authorities
are divided on what you would do in replacing a Royal Prerogative. In
the long-term, would we be better off trying to write it down? I think
it is written and codified in a lot of places. There is value in
consolidating it, even in a guidance document, which we saw with the
Cabinet manual. Before the election, when we expected a hung parliament?
Exactly and the purpose was to make sure constitutional decisions would
not decided by people on Newsnight in the middle of the night to make
sure we have some sort of authority that could speak to it. I think you
are seeing awareness of constitutional issues and a desire
for more clarity, but you wouldn't have the debates we are having about
who is the authority and what is the process by which we challenge it.
Constitutions are not fixed, they have to change all the time. We
would still face those same issues. Thanks.
There's been more bloodshed in Aleppo today with the Syrian
regime barrel bombing a district in the east of the city -
and its forces advancing further into rebel territory.
Now if you've been watching us regularly, you'll know we've been
trying to keep in touch with citizens in Aleppo,
as the siege there enters its most intense and brutal phase.
That is not always easy, but today, we can show you what life
is like for some of the local journalists and cameramen
who are filming the destruction of their own home town.
The images can often be difficult to watch, let alone gather.
And news networks don't even broadcast the worst of it.
In this report, we've been speaking to two of the citizen-journalists
It was filmed by Milad Al Shehabi in eastern Aleppo and edited
this film has some disturbing images.
Filmed in high-definition, the tragedy in Aleppo
With the besieged rebel-controlled part of the city considered too
dangerous for Westerners, it's a network of local activists
and citizen journalists, called the Aleppo Media Centre,
who risk their lives to film these scenes that have been
The images of Aleppo by drones showing the miles and miles
of devastation are both breathtaking and heartbreaking.
Most of them are filmed by this man, Hasan Katan.
A law student when the conflict erupted, he's now a film-maker
Every shot he takes brings him a mix of emotions.
Mustafa al-Sarout used to be a tailor before the revolution.
He now also works as a cameraman for the Aleppo Media Centre.
His footage of five-year-old Omran Daqneesh sitting
dazed in the back of an ambulance went worldwide.
But there are many Omrans in Aleppo and each time there's an attack,
the journalists are torn about how to behave.
The group upload and share the videos they film.
Despite the lack of action by the international community
so far, they still hope their images can and will make a difference.
That's the question at the heart of the latest government inspired
report into integration - ethnic, religious and social.
It was produced by Dame Louise Casey.
She said she expected to find discrimination and disadvantage
feeding a sense of grievance and unfairness, and isolating
certain communities from the best opportunities.
But while she did find that, she was also aware of cultural
and religious practices that are holding back some citizens
in certain communities, particularly the Muslim ones.
Women and children are sometimes victims of regressive
Now this is not the first report into this issue -
but it is interesting to see how they've evolved.
Back in 1981 there were riots in Brixton.
Race was an issue and out of the wreckage came
At that stage, the concern was what British society was doing wrong.
Lord Scarman talked of inner-city decline, his most memorable finding
was to fault the disproportionate and indiscriminate use of police
And, he said, positive discrimination to tackle
racial disadvantage was a price worth paying.
Scroll forward to the year 2001, and there were riots
in Oldham and Burnley, prompting more than one report.
The Cantle report came out in 2006, now putting weight
on what the minority communities might do.
It said different communities lived parallel lives.
It warned that single faith schools might raise deeper divisions.
And it even suggested that immigrants could take an oath
Well, a decade of immigration on, with huge numbers of Poles coming
in and growth of over a million in the Muslim population too,
concerns over parallel lives have increased.
Today's report has tougher language on how minorities must fit in.
There's an emphasis on English language classes
And women's emancipation from "regressive cultural practices".
And the Casey report says schools should promote British
values to help build integration and tolerance.
Well, to some extent you might caricature the way the debate has
evolved over the years, as progression from a worry
about "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" to certain
groups saying "we don't want to go to your pub anyway".
I'm joined now by Sarah Hewitt, Headteacher at
Anderton Park Primary in Birmingham - she received death threats
after her school was inspected as part of the Trojan Horse scandal,
from Manchester Amina Lone, Co-director of the social
foundation which is an anti poverty think tank.
And Tadeusz Stenzel Chair of Trustees, Federation
First how do you respond to the idea that we seem to be asking migrants
to fit in more rather than working out what we do to help them. Perhaps
not as binary as I have suggested. How do you respond to that, is that
a fair thing for a society to start doing? I welcome the report and
think it has some interesting findings, not least saying we want
to have a new community investment programme and more English classes.
All a good thing. But you cannot say that without resources to back it,
and the last government significantly cut adult education
investment. I think the responsibility is on society and
individuals as we are all part of the same thing. We've got to work
together and live together, it is not about other people, Muslims or
immigrants or minority communities actually having to just change but
also about society saying what are British values, what do they mean
and how did they shape our future as a country. Some of this is addressed
at the Polish community as well, and that has been a conspicuous
immigration of the last decade. There have been problems obviously
but I agree it is a lack of education causing a lot of the
problems. I think we have reduced the amount of training for
immigrants and their living in a separate world which even in the
Polish community, which is widely distributed, and not so concentrated
on some of the others throughout the UK. The people live here, they eat
here but they live a life through the media, through Poland. They
watch Polish TV and Polish football games. But if the British Government
paid for English second language courses, do you think demand would
be there? It is always a problem, you can take the voice to the water
but cannot make it drink. It is a problem that I have come across.
This seems to be a reluctance to learn more than is absolutely
necessary to get by work. But there is an impending problem whether
children are now being educated in English schools and in the near
future the parents and children will not be able to communicate with
another. One was no English and the other was no Polish! I will ask you
all to give us three practical steps in a moment. Pressed to think that
it is OK to say we need you to try a bit harder in your communities, you
have to oppose regressive policies with women stuck at home. I think
that is fair to say, one of the things that we should be proud of in
the UK, sometimes I feel that we tell parents, we interviewed new
parents and we say this is a British school and we follow British law, we
have the equality act and we tell him -- tell them what that means.
And you get lower back from that? Sometimes. People sometimes say that
is your opinion and I say yes but that is the law as well, gay people
are also equal, disabled, able-bodied, the whole thing. You
cannot bit -- you cannot pick the bits of the equality act that you
like and leave the rest. I'm happy to say that, but I just wonder who
else should be saying that to families. Because this should be an
expectation for all British citizens and visitors to Britain that this is
what we expect and how we expect them to behave. And that gets you to
the idea of an oath, I do not know if you are in favour. I'm not a
great fan of that because I think any kind of declaration is only
effective if there is a sanction if you fall foul of it. You have not
respected British values, you get a ?50 ticket? And also a lot of the
British population is homophobic or misogynistic, so it should be an
oath for everyone. I would like a practical suggestion from each of
you, what would be the most important thing to do? We need to
reconstruct British values so they are reflective of the country as it
is changing and also provide support. That point about people in
schools or other institutions having British values and not
discriminating is right. But I know people who have been working in
schools when families have taken girls are the sports classes and the
school has allowed it. So we have got to be consistent. Support for
staff in public sector errors. Maybe we should just cut off Polish
television stations so they have to watch the BBC! We tried to influence
the Polish government to produce programmes aimed at the Polish
people living here in the UK. That they get politics from Poland but we
want to represent what is happening here. My suggestion is that we need
to teach people their responsibilities. They all know
their rights but very few, there's little emphasis put
responsibilities. That would be important to do that. We're going
right back to the thrust of the KC approach. Absolutely. Give me one
practical idea. I think it needs to come from the government, we need to
stop the fragmentation of schools. In what way? We are in an unusual
situation where we have all kinds of schools and this is a bit
fragmented. The government have lifted a cap on faith schools. This
report is about integration and the opposite to that is segregation and
you could argue that faith schools segregate. Anything that is about
segregation we need to rethink. We need to stop people being creamed
off to go to grammar schools, that is the opposite of integration. And
practical homes, be passionate about equality in the homes, speak about
that and be passionate about that. Children are brilliant at this and
in my school children are passionate about the quality. And the parents
tell me that their daughters have given them a hard time because for
example they said that their son should have the biggest bedroom and
the girls give them what for about that. So children are an amazing
tool for changing the mindset of parents. And that is huge, mindsets
change and behaviours, they change the world. Parallel lines is the
phrase people have been using, what is it that makes people want to sort
themselves into ethnic areas? I think people feel comfortable with
someone they identify with, whether culturally, with clothing or
language. When I go to my parents home in Birmingham, the local
supermarket is full of Muslims on Christmas Eve buying up all the
Christmas stock. So it is more complex. I am a Muslim woman, I have
children, I do not identify as needing to be emancipated, it is a
diverse community so we need to be cautious about labelling the whole
community. Thank you very much. That is all but we have time for this
evening. But before we go, Sotheby's
announced today that it was creating a brand new art forensics unit
to detect fakes, following its failure to spot
an ?8.4m forged painting. We thought we'd give it -
and you - its first big test. What follows is a series of 19th
century masterpieces - but mixed amongst them are a couple
of numbers our producers See if you can spot the fakes -
and then check the @BBCNewsnight twitter feed to find out
if you were right.
With Evan Davis. Europe takes another blow as Renzi resigns. Plus the government takes on the judiciary in the Supreme Court and why can't Britain's communities integrate?