06/02/2017 Newsnight


06/02/2017

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Missing the excitement of the US election?

:00:00.:00:00.

The Clinton-Trump fight between populism and liberalism.

:00:07.:00:10.

It's France that's the battleground now.

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It's been a wacky race - likely candidates falling by the wayside -

:00:32.:00:35.

but looking at the current front runners, this is set to see populism

:00:36.:00:41.

fight liberalism in THE political showdown of 2017.

:00:42.:00:43.

Our opposition to racism and sexism and our support for equality before

:00:44.:00:59.

the law and an independent judiciary are hugely important considerations

:01:00.:01:08.

in the House of Commons. Those words from John Bercow aren't exactly

:01:09.:01:16.

aimed at Washington, but they are in the headlines. We'll be asking a

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leading Republican Congressman how Donald Trump's doing so far.

:01:25.:01:27.

Here in the UK, we have exclusive access to a report on addiction

:01:28.:01:30.

We speak to those with first-hand experience of a hidden epidemic.

:01:31.:01:36.

My doctor then just upped and dose and upped the dose. That's when it

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all went slightly wrong. Well, actually that's the understatement

:01:43.:01:47.

of the year. It didn't go slightly wrong, it went horribly wrong.

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The build-up to the May presidential election is in full swing.

:01:54.:02:05.

Two presidential campaigns were launched this weekend

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in the city of Lyon - the Macron and Le Pen

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A third campaign - that of Francois Fillon -

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struggled to keep itself alive today.

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He was the favourite at one point - but is ensnared in an

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The revelations about his family being on his payroll

:02:23.:02:27.

and the implosion of his campaign is quite something to behold.

:02:28.:02:29.

and the man himself came out to make a grand statement today -

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not a withdrawal from the race, but an apology and

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TRANSLATION: Things that were acceptable in the past are no longer

:02:42.:02:56.

acceptable today. I put a premium on trust and decided to work with my

:02:57.:03:02.

wife and children. That has earned me disapproval. It was a mistake. I

:03:03.:03:07.

regret it profoundly and I apologise to the French people. Like many

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other Parliamentarians I behaved in a manner that was legal but which is

:03:14.:03:23.

clearly no longer supported by our compatriots.

:03:24.:03:26.

Now, that statement was important, because he remains in the campaign,

:03:27.:03:29.

but badly wounded, which is good for the other two

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The battle to watch is between Marine Le Pen

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It is so fascinating, because it represents the schism

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Not the old hat 20th century struggle between left and right -

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but liberalism versus what's usually called populism.

:03:46.:03:48.

It was the battle that Donald Trump won in the US.

:03:49.:03:51.

But in Europe, there has not yet been a similar,

:03:52.:03:55.

clean-cut clear fight between those two sides.

:03:56.:03:57.

In Britain, Brexit might have been a proxy war.

:03:58.:04:00.

But our two-party system is still trying to hang

:04:01.:04:04.

on to the geography of left and right.

:04:05.:04:07.

France, though, has a more fluid party system, and its election may

:04:08.:04:11.

well end up as a kind of Trump-Clinton grudge match -

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And as I say, it really got going this weekend,

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not here in Paris, but in France's second city, Lyon.

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Politics descended upon Lyon this weekend.

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It's away from the Paris elite, a sizeable city,

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towards the geographic centre of the country, and it's

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What better place to launch a presidential election campaign?

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The striking geographical feature of Lyon is that it's

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where two huge rivers, the Rhone and the Saone, meet

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to become one, just over there - rather like the French electoral

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system, which through its stages, ends up as a giant showdown

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Now, if nothing changes - IF nothing changes -

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the two candidates launching their campaigns here will be

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And what is so striking is that neither of them can be said to be

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part of the traditional right or left.

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Yes, what's missing in Lyon are the old parties.

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The low reputation of Francois Hollande has met

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Hollande did not bother to stand, and his mate Manuel Valls didn't

:05:31.:05:36.

The party has a left-wing candidate, Benoit Hamon, running

:05:37.:05:40.

The old right, now called the Republicans, picked

:05:41.:05:46.

Francois Fillon, but this was a bad election to be drowning

:05:47.:05:48.

in allegations of family profiteering, given that voters

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everywhere are expressing anger at self-serving elites.

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Which is why the polls say these two are the ones that'll make it

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to the second round, outside the big left-right party

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structure, both coming to the same city on the same weekend.

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Emmanuel Macron came from the left, but is defining

:06:09.:06:11.

himself as the new centre, which is I suppose a bit

:06:12.:06:15.

like the old Blairite centre - pro-EU, social and economic

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Supporting him here, the socialist mayors

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In his favour, in contrast to Hillary Clinton, Macron

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is a relative newcomer, and is pitching himself not

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His wife is 20 years older than him, and was his

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The next day, across town, the Front National rally.

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Marine Le Pen is leading in the polls, but with the baggage

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of her party's past, she'll struggle to win

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Without that baggage, her message would probably be doing very well.

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A lot of people hate the word populism, but we surely need a word

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to describe the mix of policies being outlined here.

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Tough on law and order, anti-immigration, and yet

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a detestation of globalisation and liberal economics.

:08:29.:08:32.

People like the idea of a strong state, an etat-fort.

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Now, it's interesting that one of the appeals of Marine Le Pen

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is that she's strong, uncompromising, no namby-pambyism.

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But of course, she HAS made compromises to soften

:08:46.:08:49.

her image and appeal to more mainstream voters.

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Her message has now been honed to fit a global populist mantra -

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Her overall vision is for a protective state,

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but with a very clear idea of who is in that

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The party is easy to caricature, but in reality,

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its supporters are a mix - most I encounter, closer to Trump

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Sebastien Chenu, a gay activist, used to be an apparatchik

:09:44.:10:27.

of the UMP, the old name for the main party of the old right,

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Here in Lyon, in early February, THE contest began, the ground set -

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a battle that is probably nothing other than the one to define

:11:09.:11:12.

Europe's direction for the next few decades.

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I'm bigging up this contest - because it is big,

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If she wins, she would try to reshape the EU completely.

:11:21.:11:27.

A victory for her would also be significant, one assumes,

:11:28.:11:29.

If he wins, it would give that much-persecuted minority,

:11:30.:11:35.

the liberal elite, a proper leader - a global beacon of success.

:11:36.:11:39.

I was taking to a former British centrist Cabinet minister recently,

:11:40.:11:42.

who said that what Britain needs is a Macron.

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So yes, the stakes are high - but do remember that this French

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election has hitherto been as unpredictable as a Tory

:11:50.:11:52.

leadership contest, and it is perfectly possible that

:11:53.:11:55.

Le Pen or Macron will be eliminated early on,

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a result that would tell us that European politics is even more

:11:59.:12:02.

But as we speak, Macron is the favourite to be

:12:03.:12:08.

the next president. Let us digest this start

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to an important election with two veteran commentators.

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Christine Okrent is a political analyst, broadcaster and writer.

:12:15.:12:18.

And Pierre Haski is a co-founder of an opinion and debate

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platform on the web, called Rue 89.

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Good evening to you both. Thank you for joining us. I'm pitching it as

:12:26.:12:33.

populism versus liberalism. Is that how we should look at this election?

:12:34.:12:39.

Sure, of course. Populism, you know, it's all over our Western world.

:12:40.:12:44.

Populism can be on the left or on the right. The issue is whether the

:12:45.:12:49.

left and the right divide still matters and that's the main argument

:12:50.:12:55.

of Macron. It was also somehow the argument of Le Pen yesterday. Do you

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think, am I writing off Fillon a bit early? He's the one who is basically

:13:04.:13:10.

on the right. He stays - he doesn't stand by this right-left is dead

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notion yet. Fillon is a Conservative. On one side he has a

:13:17.:13:22.

programme, maybe exaggerate a little bit, but tough, liberal programme.

:13:23.:13:26.

On the other side he's got conservative values. He was almost

:13:27.:13:33.

out of the race because of a scandal affecting a money issue, as you

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know. He's back in the race because he's managed to impose to his own

:13:37.:13:43.

party to stay on. First of all because they have no-one else to

:13:44.:13:48.

replace him. Secondly, because we're in a post-truth era and not sure

:13:49.:13:53.

that a good lie repeated many times cannot win the day. No-one's going

:13:54.:14:02.

to vote for him, are they? The voters are totally disenchanted.

:14:03.:14:06.

You're wrong. When you look at the polls. Of course, the general public

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says OK, let's get rid of him. But his co-constituency, two thirds of

:14:16.:14:19.

them still want him as their candidate. The traditional, typical

:14:20.:14:28.

French Catholic conservatives, older people, they stick to Fillon. Fillon

:14:29.:14:34.

is very much back in the race, if only because all the others in his

:14:35.:14:41.

own political tribe hate one another so much, that somehow Fillon is the

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least worst solution. It's an amazing scenario. But there it is.

:14:49.:14:52.

There's something about our political situation which is unique.

:14:53.:14:56.

It's a two-round election. All you need at this stage is get to 25%.

:14:57.:15:02.

You don't need to reach 50% immediately. If Fillon or Macron

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gets those 25% they are sure to be on the second round and have a great

:15:09.:15:14.

chance to beat Marine Le Pen. That's the key issue today, not to reach an

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overall majority. It's to reach 25%, which is - Doable for either of

:15:20.:15:24.

them. Yes. Let me ask you this: If Marine Le Pen didn't come with all

:15:25.:15:28.

the baggage of her father dabbling in Holocaust denial and all that

:15:29.:15:32.

stuff, do you think her message, which is one of a strong state,

:15:33.:15:38.

protective of its own people, that message would go down very well with

:15:39.:15:40.

the French, wouldn't it? It does go down well, she has had

:15:41.:15:52.

25% in the sand ex. But she could be way out there, if it wasn't for...?

:15:53.:15:57.

Come on, in no democracy, nobody ever gets 70%. No, but she's very

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high tree should the Front National has been in our politics for 34

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years. They have never managed to win a major election. So they are

:16:10.:16:15.

there, Marine Le Pen has been very, very clever that enhancing the

:16:16.:16:20.

platform and the arguments. But there again, I don't think you

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should transform her into the one player who is going to actually

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change our political scene. She has been around, you know, she's been

:16:36.:16:47.

there. And also, I think she's been smart to have a political language

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that allowed her to steal part of the popular vote which traditionally

:16:52.:16:56.

used to be on the left. So that has given her an edge over her father,

:16:57.:17:00.

who was strictly on the nationalist, quite racist, platform. And so she

:17:01.:17:06.

has opened up, and is making a bid for power. But I don't think she

:17:07.:17:10.

will make it this time. The system is still resisting. Basically there

:17:11.:17:13.

are just too many people who will never vote Front National. Yes,

:17:14.:17:19.

definitely recall we have to talk about the Socialists. Why? Because

:17:20.:17:24.

no-one's talking about the Socialists! Where has it gone in

:17:25.:17:27.

France, we thought France was a socialist country?! Come on, we have

:17:28.:17:34.

our Jeremy Corbyn! He did an extraordinary thing yesterday, he

:17:35.:17:41.

had his sort of official speech as the new Socialist candidate, and he

:17:42.:17:46.

said, I am not a providential man at all. And the impression was, he

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doesn't want to be president, he doesn't believe he can become

:17:54.:17:58.

president. But he is there to pick up what is left of the socialist

:17:59.:18:02.

party. Because the Social Democrats will probably opt for Macron, all of

:18:03.:18:11.

those who were previously backing the former Prime Minister Manuel

:18:12.:18:18.

Valls. So he is playing really the next act after the presidential

:18:19.:18:21.

election, Benoit Hamon. He's keeping the flag flying! The Socialists have

:18:22.:18:26.

to recover from five years of Francois Hollande, which has left a

:18:27.:18:30.

disastrous impression with the French, to the point where the

:18:31.:18:33.

president himself decided not to go for a second mandate. So they know

:18:34.:18:38.

that they have got nothing to do this time, and their best chance,

:18:39.:18:42.

someone who has been one of the government but has left, is Macron,

:18:43.:18:47.

although that does not please many of the Socialists. So they need a

:18:48.:18:51.

few years to rethink. Thank you both very, very much indeed. Thank you to

:18:52.:18:53.

my guests. Lots of twists and turns to go

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between here and the spring - but if this is the contest of 2017,

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the consequences of the battle of 2016 are still being

:19:04.:19:06.

felt over in the US. Well, never a dull moment here,

:19:07.:19:19.

either. President Trump has been continuing his spat with the

:19:20.:19:22.

American judiciary over their actions on the immigration ban. They

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have overturned it, of course, at the weekend. And he carried on today

:19:28.:19:33.

Billy Haas -- with a harsh message in a speech he delivered at a

:19:34.:19:40.

military base in Florida. And all across Europe, we've seen what

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happened in Paris and Nice, all over Europe, it's happening. It's gotten

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to a point where it's not even being reported, and in many cases, very,

:19:52.:19:56.

very dishonest press doesn't want to report it. They have their reasons

:19:57.:20:03.

just you understand that. So many issues being thrown up by President

:20:04.:20:07.

Trump and his statements. And earlier, I was joined by Republican

:20:08.:20:11.

Congressman Joe Wilson, senior Republican on a couple of key

:20:12.:20:14.

committees here, and I started by asking him, on another one of those

:20:15.:20:19.

issues, the statement by President Trump at the weekend which compared

:20:20.:20:24.

Putin and America, saying America was not so innocent. I looked at it

:20:25.:20:29.

as prior history, working with Stalin. And we know that his demonic

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background, and so it was not a reflection on America as much as it

:20:37.:20:40.

was that we worked with people who we can look back and say, it would

:20:41.:20:44.

have been better to have worked with someone else. But that's who was

:20:45.:20:50.

there. In general, do you think he has sold himself as the president

:20:51.:20:53.

who can make a better bargain for the country, do you think he is too

:20:54.:20:57.

soft on Putin, he's like the one person he won't criticise? He really

:20:58.:21:02.

is trying to reach out to the Russian Federation. Many of us had

:21:03.:21:07.

hoped, in the UK and the US, for a positive and bright future after the

:21:08.:21:11.

Cold War, with the Russian Federation, but it's not turned out

:21:12.:21:15.

that way, which is so disappointing. And so he's still reaching out a

:21:16.:21:18.

hand of friendship, hopeful for change, in the relationship between

:21:19.:21:23.

the Russian Federation and the rest of the world. Now, an important step

:21:24.:21:31.

at the end of last week come the National Security Advisor saying

:21:32.:21:35.

Iran was on notice as a result of its missile test - how dangerous is

:21:36.:21:39.

that in terms of tensions in the region, that they might misinterpret

:21:40.:21:43.

what being said, maybe attack US forces, something like that? Well,

:21:44.:21:47.

sadly, they already have attacked US forces and captured US forces. And

:21:48.:21:51.

then it was believed that the most recent attack on a ship was intended

:21:52.:21:57.

to be an attack on an American position, which would be a danger to

:21:58.:22:02.

the west. This was off Yemen? Off of Yemen. But the danger to the Western

:22:03.:22:08.

world is that we had the Iranian nuclear deal, and that the same

:22:09.:22:12.

time, they are developing intercontinental ballistic missiles.

:22:13.:22:15.

There is only one purpose for those, and that is to deliver nuclear

:22:16.:22:20.

weapons. They already have warheads capable of wiping Israel off the

:22:21.:22:25.

face of the earth. But this could be a danger to the people of Europe and

:22:26.:22:29.

the United States, as they develop this capability. With the language

:22:30.:22:33.

changing in the way that it is on him and, and President Trump has

:22:34.:22:37.

been critical of the deal, do you think it can survive? No. And it was

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really a poorly agreed to any situation, that really, there is no

:22:46.:22:48.

safeguards in hit. It is really appalling to me. I am really

:22:49.:22:54.

grateful that Congress itself did not favour the dangerous Iranian

:22:55.:23:02.

nuclear deal. Probably the most controversial executive order so far

:23:03.:23:05.

was the one banning people from seven countries from coming in. We

:23:06.:23:09.

know there has been a big legal fight over that. When you look back

:23:10.:23:13.

on that, it was part of his platform, but don't you think he

:23:14.:23:15.

could have gone about it in a more...? However he did it, we are

:23:16.:23:22.

really in a political war here. Personally, eight years ago, when Mr

:23:23.:23:26.

Obama came into office, the tradition, you give a honeymoon.

:23:27.:23:32.

There is no honeymoon. President Trump truly is at war with the

:23:33.:23:36.

Democratic Party, and they are at war with him, more with him than he

:23:37.:23:40.

is with them. And then sadly, we have a media here which is very

:23:41.:23:44.

supportive of the Democratic Party. This is not new. In fact, we have

:23:45.:23:50.

overcome this over the years. But what about the judiciary? He has

:23:51.:23:55.

tweeted about so-called judges, and people even on the right of politics

:23:56.:24:01.

here say that is dangerous language in a constitutional setup? The good

:24:02.:24:05.

news even on that, by his most recent appointment to the Supreme

:24:06.:24:10.

Court, we have a person who will really respect the role of the three

:24:11.:24:12.

branches of government in our country, and that is the

:24:13.:24:19.

legislative, executive and judicial. And he indicated that he would not

:24:20.:24:22.

be making law, he would be interpreted what the elected

:24:23.:24:24.

officials of the people have established. And so his actions are

:24:25.:24:29.

really very, very positive, some of his words can be taken out of

:24:30.:24:36.

context local lastly, the Speaker of the British Parliament, John Bercow,

:24:37.:24:40.

has said that President Trump should not come to talk to members of

:24:41.:24:43.

Parliament when he visits the UK later this year - what's your

:24:44.:24:48.

response to that? That's very disappointing, because if ever in

:24:49.:24:54.

recent years, there has been a more pro-British president of the United

:24:55.:24:57.

States, its Donald Trump. And it's been by his words, his assurances,

:24:58.:25:03.

with Prime Minister made, 100% standing with Nato and working to

:25:04.:25:08.

create trade relationships. But it has also been symbolic. He was the

:25:09.:25:13.

one who return to the bust of Winston Churchill to the Oval

:25:14.:25:18.

Office. And I consider it a slap, sadly, at the Republican party. It

:25:19.:25:23.

was the Republican party, leaders of our party, that actually placed the

:25:24.:25:28.

bust of Winston Churchill in the US Capitol building. And we urge all

:25:29.:25:31.

buildings to come and visit the building, and they will be welcomed,

:25:32.:25:35.

especially welcome to know that there is a bust of Winston Churchill

:25:36.:25:40.

in the US capital building, showing our great affection for the people

:25:41.:25:43.

of the United Kingdom. Thank you so much, Congressman. Thank you, my

:25:44.:25:51.

honour. Congressman Joe Wilson. Extraordinary phrase there,

:25:52.:25:54.

political war, when referring to the Democrats, but that's how many

:25:55.:25:57.

Republicans here in Congress feel, which is wife at the moment, they

:25:58.:26:01.

are standing firmly behind Donald Trump. Back to London.

:26:02.:26:07.

It's time to face the realities of a new America -

:26:08.:26:09.

so says the former Prime Minister of Finland.

:26:10.:26:11.

That means that there is a power vacuum in 2017 and Alexander Stoob

:26:12.:26:18.

Do we look east to China, as it champions globalisation,

:26:19.:26:22.

or over to Russia, as Putin becomes ever more emboldened

:26:23.:26:25.

Does a post-Brexit, fragmented Europe even get a look-in, as it

:26:26.:26:28.

Recently you wrote a piece, Trump's putting America first, looking

:26:29.:26:49.

inwards, he's not doing anything wrong, is he wanted from a global

:26:50.:26:52.

perspective, and for someone who believes that three things have

:26:53.:26:59.

defined successful societies, liberal democracy, market economy

:27:00.:27:01.

and globalisation, one would say that he's doing something wrong. If

:27:02.:27:06.

you believe that the leader of the free world can close shop, build

:27:07.:27:09.

walls and throw the key away, and I'd say that he's doing something

:27:10.:27:13.

wrong. I guess the big question right now is, who's going to fill

:27:14.:27:16.

the power vacuum which the Americans will be leaving? Can Europe? I think

:27:17.:27:22.

Europe should try. I think what might be happening is that China

:27:23.:27:26.

will take a lead in economics, globalisation and free trade. And

:27:27.:27:29.

then Russia will want to take a lead in the military. And they are a

:27:30.:27:34.

superpower in that. And then Europe, we should now fill that void a

:27:35.:27:38.

little bit. And I think we should do three things. I am an optimist, I

:27:39.:27:43.

would say that we need to be champions of free trade, secondly,

:27:44.:27:46.

we need to promote Western values, and this is very important, someone

:27:47.:27:50.

needs to do it. And the third thing we need to do is to focus more on

:27:51.:27:55.

foreign policy, but there, we need the UK's help as well. How do

:27:56.:28:00.

countries in the EU do that when they seem to be fragmented, as we

:28:01.:28:05.

are seeing on this programme, in France, for example, liberal ideas

:28:06.:28:14.

falling apart in the EU, it is a fragmented EU, how can it fill the

:28:15.:28:19.

void left by the US? I think of free trade, we can do that by

:28:20.:28:23.

establishing bilateral relations. The big question is the value issue.

:28:24.:28:28.

We will have three key elections here to see the direction of Europe.

:28:29.:28:32.

The first one is in the Netherlands coming up in March. The second one

:28:33.:28:37.

is in May in France, and the third, in Germany, in September. Obviously,

:28:38.:28:43.

if these go wrong, from a liberal international perspective, then it's

:28:44.:28:46.

very difficult to lead on values, you're correct on that. But I

:28:47.:28:52.

believe that the values of liberal democracy, openness, transparency,

:28:53.:28:55.

human rights, fundamental rights, they are the basic foundation of our

:28:56.:28:58.

success. So if our political leaders cannot promote those values, then I

:28:59.:29:03.

think we are in trouble. How big a crack as Brexit made in the EU?

:29:04.:29:08.

Definitely a big crack. I think we are all pragmatic about it, however.

:29:09.:29:14.

I for one will be the person who is trying to make the best out of a

:29:15.:29:18.

very difficult situation. You once predicted there would be economic

:29:19.:29:22.

mayhem? Yes, and I think in the long run it will. I think short-term it

:29:23.:29:26.

didn't, it wasn't the Lehman brothers moment. But in long-term

:29:27.:29:30.

economic cycles, we will have to seek. I think we are trying to avoid

:29:31.:29:35.

that. There are people on the continent proper who want to punish

:29:36.:29:39.

Britain for this. I don't want to do that, I want to find a good deal for

:29:40.:29:43.

Britain, and one for Europe as well. We have to live with this new

:29:44.:29:46.

reality but we have to understand that it weakens everyone. Theresa

:29:47.:29:50.

May has a shopping list, she's looking for good deal for the UK.

:29:51.:29:55.

She has put the white paper out there. She's not going to get

:29:56.:29:58.

everything on that list, and how much pain, how much compromise, are

:29:59.:30:03.

we going to have to offer in order to get some of those things? You

:30:04.:30:08.

never get everything that you want. I think usually a list is a starting

:30:09.:30:12.

position for the negotiations. What don't you think we will get? It's

:30:13.:30:17.

impossible to save. The negotiations themselves will take about two

:30:18.:30:21.

years. And at the end of the day they will decide on two things, the

:30:22.:30:26.

exit date, which will be the 1st of April 2019, and secondly, probably

:30:27.:30:30.

linked to money. Then there are a lot of key issues in between. She

:30:31.:30:34.

wants to take control of our own laws, Freehand frictionless trade, a

:30:35.:30:41.

new strategic partnership and a smooth and orderly exit, will she

:30:42.:30:44.

get all of those? It would be wonderful if she did. I think we

:30:45.:30:49.

need to work in that direction. Nobody wants to isolate the UK in

:30:50.:30:53.

terms of trade, there is no question about that. In terms of taking

:30:54.:30:57.

control of your own laws, yes, that will happen, but first, you will

:30:58.:31:01.

probably have to take lock, stock and barrel of thousands of pages of

:31:02.:31:08.

European law. You have been speaking to team members involved in the

:31:09.:31:12.

forthcoming negotiations, and considering you thought there would

:31:13.:31:16.

be economic mayhem from Brexit, rather pessimistic approach, how do

:31:17.:31:20.

feel now about the UK's prospects of a successful Brexit?

:31:21.:31:27.

The whole Civil Service is no nonsense pragmatic people. This is

:31:28.:31:34.

good to see. There was the shock in the summer, what happened wasn't

:31:35.:31:37.

supposed to happen. Then there was a period of remorse. Now people are

:31:38.:31:42.

pug up their -- pulling up their sleeves and starting to work. I

:31:43.:31:45.

leave London quite optimistic. I used to say that everyone says

:31:46.:31:49.

Brexit means Brexit but no-one knows what Brexit means. Everyone is

:31:50.:31:53.

starting to understand what Brexit means now. There's no nonsense,

:31:54.:31:57.

business-like sense about it. Thank you very much for your time on

:31:58.:31:58.

Newsnight. Time now for Viewsnight,

:31:59.:32:01.

Newsnight's new platform And, as it's NHS week

:32:02.:32:03.

across the BBC, tonight, the neurosurgeon

:32:04.:32:08.

Henry Marsh speaks up. Benjamin Franklin once observed

:32:09.:32:11.

that the only certainties in life None of us want to die and none

:32:12.:32:23.

of us want to pay taxation. But our politicians

:32:24.:32:28.

need to make a choice. Hospitals finished the last

:32:29.:32:31.

financial year ?2.45 billion in the red -

:32:32.:32:35.

that's the biggest overspend The simple fact is that NHS spending

:32:36.:32:38.

is not keeping up with medical technological progress

:32:39.:32:43.

and the ageing of the population. This country spends less on health

:32:44.:32:48.

care per capita than any other But the Government says everything's

:32:49.:32:51.

OK, and it's just that the GPs So how can we find more money

:32:52.:32:57.

for health care without putting The private sector

:32:58.:33:03.

is entirely parasitic For instance, all the training

:33:04.:33:09.

is done in the state sector, It's also well-known that

:33:10.:33:14.

profit-seeking in medicine inevitably leads to unnecessary

:33:15.:33:18.

treatments and unnecessary What about a stripped-down NHS

:33:19.:33:22.

which only treats serious conditions But then what about conditions that

:33:23.:33:27.

might lead to cancer, what about high blood pressure,

:33:28.:33:32.

what about diabetes - The answer surely must be

:33:33.:33:34.

a dedicated health care tax, what's called in the trade,

:33:35.:33:39.

an hypothecated tax. Now, the Treasury make strong

:33:40.:33:43.

arguments against this, they don't like the public picking

:33:44.:33:45.

and choosing what they But surely an exception should be

:33:46.:33:47.

made for the NHS we all love? If we knew what we were paying for,

:33:48.:33:53.

this would empower us as patients, and this would be an enormous force

:33:54.:33:57.

for improvement in the NHS. The Government has made

:33:58.:34:01.

honesty a statutory duty for doctors such as myself,

:34:02.:34:05.

but its own dishonesty over the financial crisis facing

:34:06.:34:08.

the National Health Service is instead condemning it

:34:09.:34:12.

to death by a thousand cuts. And we'll have a Viewsnight

:34:13.:34:22.

with a different perspective Lastly tonight - how much do we need

:34:23.:34:25.

to worry that the prescription-drugs epidemic sweeping the United States

:34:26.:34:29.

could be replicated here? Our special correspondent,

:34:30.:34:33.

Katie Razzall, has been given exclusive early sight of a report

:34:34.:34:36.

into drug use in the UK What is this report? What is the

:34:37.:34:48.

point of this report overall? This report is a snapshot of UK drug use

:34:49.:34:55.

in 2016, from the charity Drug-wise. They've conducted interviews, mainly

:34:56.:34:57.

with police officers and drug workers. Most of their findings

:34:58.:35:01.

don't relate to prescription drugs, but they are interesting. They say

:35:02.:35:05.

there are unprecedented purity levels of the likes of heroin,

:35:06.:35:09.

crack, cocaine and ecstasy on the streets of Britain. They say drug

:35:10.:35:12.

gangs have extended their distribution networks. They point to

:35:13.:35:15.

the success of the Government's attempts last year to crack down on

:35:16.:35:20.

legal highs, the likes of synthetic cannabis, spice, those kind of

:35:21.:35:23.

drugs. For me, the most interesting thing in it is what they say about

:35:24.:35:27.

the kind of drugs we can all get over the counter or from our GPs.

:35:28.:35:32.

Prescription drugs. It's like this story has come as a by-product of

:35:33.:35:38.

this report. Yeah, in America there's a serious heroin ep dopic

:35:39.:35:42.

killing people, but it's related to a serious prescription drug abuse

:35:43.:35:47.

epidemic. The biggest single cause of accidental death in the States.

:35:48.:35:50.

The question is, could that happen here? This report makes very clear,

:35:51.:35:54.

we don't have the pill mills that they have the States. We're a very

:35:55.:35:59.

different proposition. We don't have GPs involved in illicit supply. It

:36:00.:36:06.

says the lines are blurred between medical overuse, recreational use

:36:07.:36:09.

and addiction. One of the examples are the codeine housewives of

:36:10.:36:13.

Hartlepool. These are women who started taking codeine to take the

:36:14.:36:17.

edge off their day and now find themselves addicted. But this is

:36:18.:36:20.

about much more than codeine. What they say is that we could face

:36:21.:36:24.

significant problems in the future and we must watch what's happening.

:36:25.:36:29.

Newsnight's spoke ton three people who understand this issue well. They

:36:30.:36:34.

were all filmed at recovery service for tranquiliser dependency. The

:36:35.:36:45.

first is a woman who was prescribed benzodiazipine when her brother died

:36:46.:36:50.

and her mother had a stroke. The doctor upped the dose and upped the

:36:51.:36:54.

dose. Then it all went slightly wrong, well, actually that's the

:36:55.:36:56.

understatement of the year. It didn't go slightly wrong, it went

:36:57.:37:01.

horribly wrong because then that made what I was going through

:37:02.:37:04.

actually worse. I don't know about you, if you've ever been given

:37:05.:37:09.

antibiotics you don't go, what could this do to the rest of my body. I

:37:10.:37:14.

now read everything. Although my GP did say, you know, these can

:37:15.:37:21.

actually become - you can get used to them, so we don't recommend you

:37:22.:37:24.

take them for too long, that wasn't the case right from day one. By the

:37:25.:37:29.

time that was made clear, it was too late. You do tend to keep it a

:37:30.:37:34.

secret. It's like an awful secret because you just feel that you

:37:35.:37:37.

shouldn't be in that position. You feel weak. You feel that you should

:37:38.:37:45.

be more in control of your life. You feel upset that you've actually got

:37:46.:37:49.

to this point. You feel ashamed. It's so great when you feel so

:37:50.:37:53.

stressed to have something that's going to actually take that edge

:37:54.:37:57.

off, so you can actually calm down, relax and then think logically

:37:58.:38:01.

again. Or that's how you think you're thinking. It took me a period

:38:02.:38:07.

of just under two years to come off them in a staged way, in a sensible

:38:08.:38:11.

way, so that it didn't affect my health and didn't make me have any

:38:12.:38:16.

awful side effects either. Are you taking anything now? Very

:38:17.:38:22.

occasionally I might have a couple of milligrams if I'm having a

:38:23.:38:24.

particularly stressful time. The main tablets are

:38:25.:38:44.

diazepam/Valium. We have people on the Z drugs, zopiclone, drugs that

:38:45.:38:48.

are prescribed for anxiety or sleep problems. The vast majority of

:38:49.:38:52.

people we see here aren't using them illicitly. They take them as

:38:53.:38:56.

prescribed and doing exactly what the doctor ordered. Unfortunately,

:38:57.:38:59.

they still start to develop a problem. The withdrawals that I've

:39:00.:39:03.

witnessed that people have explained to me do sound very intense and

:39:04.:39:08.

quite honestly, nightmarish for a lot of people. They describe things

:39:09.:39:14.

like overwhelming fear, absolutely scared of everything, not able to go

:39:15.:39:20.

out, stomach problems, per Septemberual problems. -- perceptual

:39:21.:39:27.

problems. We hear all the time from people that they weren't fully

:39:28.:39:31.

warmed about the dependency potential of the compound they are

:39:32.:39:35.

taking. In fact, they really had no idea just how severe the withdrawals

:39:36.:39:40.

could be. In the last five years, when the drugs have been readily

:39:41.:39:44.

available on the internet to buy, we have seen a large increase in a

:39:45.:39:52.

younger group of people who are using them in an illicit way.

:39:53.:40:03.

It really is quite startling when you think that if you take together

:40:04.:40:14.

the opiate pain killers, tranquilisers, antidepressants,

:40:15.:40:17.

you're looking at 100 million prescriptions being written in the

:40:18.:40:21.

UK every year. The percentage increases in prescribing in recent

:40:22.:40:27.

years is in the hundreds, 400%, 500% increases in prescribing. Have we

:40:28.:40:32.

got more pain? Are we more depressed than we were? Because these drugs

:40:33.:40:37.

are so readily available online and over the counter, people become

:40:38.:40:43.

dependent on these drugs and take a different - they don't regard

:40:44.:40:48.

themselves as drug addicts. These are medicines and tablets and pill

:40:49.:40:52.

that's they've bought. It becomes almost the acceptable face of

:40:53.:40:57.

addiction. The other dimension to this, particularly in some parts of

:40:58.:41:00.

the country, like Scotland, is where you actually have what you might

:41:01.:41:07.

call breaking bad type drug labs making them. However you want to

:41:08.:41:11.

define it, there is a substantial public health problem here which we

:41:12.:41:16.

feel, which the charities and various organisations feel just

:41:17.:41:20.

isn't being addressed. Some shocking statistics there. Thank you.

:41:21.:41:23.

We leave you with the Speaker of the House of Commons,

:41:24.:41:27.

John Bercow, who was asked today about President Trump

:41:28.:41:30.

addressing Parliament during his upcoming State Visit.

:41:31.:41:32.

I would not wish to issue an invitation to President Trump to

:41:33.:41:49.

speak in the royal gallery. And I conclude by saying to the honourable

:41:50.:41:56.

gentleman this: We value our relationship with the United States.

:41:57.:42:01.

If a state visit takes place, that is way beyond and above the pay

:42:02.:42:07.

grade of the Speaker. However, as far as this place is concerned, I

:42:08.:42:16.

feel very strongly that our opposition to racism and to sexism

:42:17.:42:22.

and our support for equality before the law and an independent judiciary

:42:23.:42:28.

are hugely important considerations in the House of Commons.

:42:29.:42:29.

CHEERING Very good evening. The weather's

:42:30.:42:46.

been pretty horrendous in some parts of the country during today.

:42:47.:42:49.

Northern Ireland severe gales here and some rain. Tomorrow's looking a

:42:50.:42:53.

bit better. Let's start

:42:54.:42:54.

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