11/04/2017 Newsnight


11/04/2017

With Evan Davis. Britain's importantance, the legal fight for a baby's life, Turkey, honour-based violence and men, and black representation.


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Transcript


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We've become used to seeing ourselves among the big players

:00:07.:00:08.

Is it time to scale down our sense of self importance?

:00:09.:00:16.

Boris Johnson didn't get his way at the G7 foreign

:00:17.:00:18.

Was he naive to think he could push his weight around?

:00:19.:00:24.

All we can say is he got himself out on a limb and the

:00:25.:00:27.

branch was cut off in Lucca Italy at the G-7 meeting.

:00:28.:00:34.

We'll look at the state of foreign policy, and ask if we should start

:00:35.:00:38.

thinking of ourselves as a medium-sized nation?

:00:39.:00:40.

Also tonight, Katie Razzall has been looking at the hidden side of honour

:00:41.:00:44.

violence; the men who have been victims of forced marriage,

:00:45.:00:46.

There is a lot of shame and pride and ego involved.

:00:47.:00:54.

This is wrong, it's dirty, we're going to beat you up,

:00:55.:00:57.

we're going to put a Black and Decker drill up your arse.

:00:58.:01:01.

We discuss the representation of black people, and black

:01:02.:01:11.

But do those working in the industry feel like times are changing?

:01:12.:01:24.

Yesterday foreign secretary Boris Johnson had a plan

:01:25.:01:30.

for targeted sanctions against Russia, as a response to its

:01:31.:01:35.

Mr Johnson was public in promoting his idea,

:01:36.:01:39.

and he took it to the G7 foreign ministers meeting in Lucca

:01:40.:01:42.

Sanctions weren't even mentioned in the communique.

:01:43.:01:50.

The view that prevailed was summarised by the Italian host,

:01:51.:01:52.

that "we must not push Russia into a corner".

:01:53.:01:57.

Now what does this say about British foreign policy?

:01:58.:02:01.

For some, it is simply a Boris Johnson fail -

:02:02.:02:05.

that he pushed his plan without knowing

:02:06.:02:08.

But for others, it speaks to a diminished

:02:09.:02:10.

That we should never expect the world's players,

:02:11.:02:15.

to be hanging on our every word or idea.

:02:16.:02:18.

We'll talk about that shortly, but first here's Mark Urban.

:02:19.:02:29.

The Lucca meeting offered western Foreign Ministers a chance

:02:30.:02:32.

for a united response to Syria's chemical weapons strike,

:02:33.:02:34.

Boris Johnson ended up in a lonely position of proposing new sanctions,

:02:35.:02:42.

and even the idea of pressuring the Kremlin over Syria

:02:43.:02:45.

We want to create a future for Syria that is stable and secure.

:02:46.:02:58.

And so Russia can be a part of that future and play an important role,

:02:59.:03:05.

or Russia can maintain its alliance with this group which we believe

:03:06.:03:08.

isn't going to serve Russia's interests long term.

:03:09.:03:12.

As the US Secretary of State carried that message off to Moscow

:03:13.:03:16.

one thing was clear, Britain's attempt to get the other

:03:17.:03:20.

leading economies to buy into sanctions had misfired,

:03:21.:03:23.

drawing some American backing but little from any other quarter.

:03:24.:03:29.

All we can say is he got himself out on a limb and the branch was cut off

:03:30.:03:33.

I think it is extremely unwise to go out and say this

:03:34.:03:42.

is what we are going to try and get when probably your advisers

:03:43.:03:45.

already know that you are not going to shift the Germans

:03:46.:03:48.

or the Italians, at least, to name but two.

:03:49.:03:50.

And as Rex Tillerson sits down with the Russian Foreign Minister

:03:51.:03:53.

he knows that Sergei Lavrov has batted away every attempt the West

:03:54.:03:57.

has made for five years to get the Kremlin to push Bashar al-Assad

:03:58.:04:00.

-- And what happened in Lucca won't have strengthened the American hand.

:04:01.:04:10.

Well, I think first of all it was a United States,

:04:11.:04:13.

I always was a bit suspicious about its wisdom, because there

:04:14.:04:17.

has to be some doubt as to whether further sanctions

:04:18.:04:20.

would make any impact given that they were going to be targeted

:04:21.:04:25.

against individuals and unlikely to change the Kremlin's view.

:04:26.:04:28.

But also what we've now got is actually a worse situation

:04:29.:04:31.

Because Tillerson will now be told by the Russians

:04:32.:04:38.

when he sees Lavrov, well, you don't even

:04:39.:04:40.

Of course there is one difference this time,

:04:41.:04:51.

which is the recent American missile strikes on a Syrian air base.

:04:52.:04:54.

Whether that will leverage American diplomacy at Moscow

:04:55.:04:56.

That hope springs eternal on the part of American officials,

:04:57.:05:02.

no matter what their political party, that somehow the Russians

:05:03.:05:05.

are going to ditch al-Assad and embrace somebody else.

:05:06.:05:09.

And I think that is a profound misreading of Russian interests.

:05:10.:05:15.

This was what kept John Kerry alive, apparently, in the last two years

:05:16.:05:18.

I can't imagine to myself that the Trump administration

:05:19.:05:25.

Britain's intervention at the G-7 may well have been well-intentioned

:05:26.:05:35.

but has it just exposed the weakness of this country's

:05:36.:05:38.

Last week's chemical weapon attack came at precisely the moment that

:05:39.:05:48.

many Western countries had been gradually accepting they might have

:05:49.:05:51.

to put up with the Bashar al-Assad government and wanted to do

:05:52.:05:53.

something to improve their relations with the Kremlin at the same time.

:05:54.:05:58.

So any idea for targeted sanctions coming from the desk

:05:59.:06:01.

of the British Foreign Secretary was never really going to fly

:06:02.:06:03.

Instead, as so many times during the Syrian civil War,

:06:04.:06:08.

Western countries are set to put their own wider

:06:09.:06:10.

For US Russian relations that takes some of the poison and some

:06:11.:06:24.

of the heat out of the relationship and then move on to try and sort out

:06:25.:06:27.

a few things in the world, which includes the chaos

:06:28.:06:30.

So in Moscow they will talk about Syria, but the bigger

:06:31.:06:38.

For the Trump administration has been clear about its desire

:06:39.:06:41.

for better relations with Russia, and it still seems intent on that.

:06:42.:06:49.

Well, it's particularly intriguing to ask if Britain needs to adjust

:06:50.:06:51.

We are 0.9 per cent of the world population, the ninth largest

:06:52.:06:58.

economy measured properly, and the fifth largest

:06:59.:07:00.

Jeremy Shapiro is research director at the European Council

:07:01.:07:08.

on Foreign Relations, and used to work at the US

:07:09.:07:11.

State Department advising Hillary Clinton on the Middle East.

:07:12.:07:13.

Emily Thornberry is the shadow foreign secretary.

:07:14.:07:18.

Good evening. Jeremy, uninterested in your perspective. Do you think

:07:19.:07:29.

the expectation that Boris goes in and says what he would like

:07:30.:07:33.

everybody gathers round, says yes or no, is that just one way of thinking

:07:34.:07:39.

about it? -- I am interested in your perspective. Great Britain has a

:07:40.:07:43.

great history of diplomacy. It likes to think of itself as a great power.

:07:44.:07:48.

But it has been a medium power for decades now. It has punched above

:07:49.:07:52.

its weight during those decades because it had a good relationship

:07:53.:07:57.

with the US, and it has been a member of the EU. And it has managed

:07:58.:08:03.

to work both sides of that I/O and punch its weight diplomatically. But

:08:04.:08:08.

with the Brexit decision those days are, sort of, over. -- both sides of

:08:09.:08:26.

that aisle. Do you accept that? I think we have navigated our foreign

:08:27.:08:31.

policy between the EU and America and our relationships with both are

:08:32.:08:35.

profoundly changing. I think you underplay the many positives we have

:08:36.:08:39.

as a country. We can continue to punch above our weight. We have a

:08:40.:08:43.

place in the Security Council. We don't need to be second fiddle to

:08:44.:08:48.

the Americans there. We could have a distinctive voice. People speak

:08:49.:08:52.

English. We have a huge amount of soft power. We spend vast amounts of

:08:53.:08:57.

money on aid. We might be the worlds biggest when it comes to the

:08:58.:09:03.

Americans... A large amount of foreign ministers have been educated

:09:04.:09:07.

in Britain. At an important time in their lives they fall in love with

:09:08.:09:12.

this country. We spent a lot of money on defence... Boris has

:09:13.:09:21.

written this article... I will tell you the difference I have with him.

:09:22.:09:23.

In order to be influential you have to have... Today was about tactics.

:09:24.:09:27.

It was completely the wrong one. We had to take advantage of the fact

:09:28.:09:30.

that we have a massive brains trust in the Foreign Office. The best and

:09:31.:09:34.

brightest of Britain go out for this country. That has been cut by 40%,

:09:35.:09:40.

it has been undermined, it has an eccentric, at least, you know,

:09:41.:09:45.

Foreign Secretary, that perhaps undermined them. And Brexit has been

:09:46.:09:49.

taken away from the Foreign Office and given to another department...

:09:50.:09:53.

The Foreign Office didn't want to come on this evening. In some ways,

:09:54.:09:57.

Jeremy, you have a grand vision of Britain as a great power. Spend more

:09:58.:10:01.

on the Foreign Office, you could have more the Britannia is floating

:10:02.:10:05.

around... I'm not talking about that. We should hold our heads up

:10:06.:10:10.

high and be more confident about ourselves.

:10:11.:10:20.

-- more royal Britannias floating around. That's great. All of the

:10:21.:10:23.

things you've talked about our British strengths. But I can tell

:10:24.:10:26.

you they are more keenly felt inside this country rather than outside.

:10:27.:10:28.

When I was in the State Department we didn't focus on that. We barely

:10:29.:10:32.

noticed it. If you look at the article in the New York Times about

:10:33.:10:36.

the G-7 meeting, it barely mentions Britain. I looked at several of them

:10:37.:10:40.

in other countries. They didn't mention Boris Johnson. But it was

:10:41.:10:46.

buried under... They did, it was buried, he was not seen as the

:10:47.:10:51.

story. The story was the US, the Russians, the Italians, it was not

:10:52.:10:58.

Britain. Yet if you read the British press's coverage it was all about

:10:59.:11:03.

Boris Johnson's Fabius, all of the tactics you were covering. King of

:11:04.:11:09.

what you said was right. -- Boris Johnson's failures. Let's focus on

:11:10.:11:14.

the Middle East. Our historic links with the Middle East are profound.

:11:15.:11:19.

We have an understanding. America doesn't have that. As a close ally

:11:20.:11:24.

of America we can, hopefully, if we were prepared to stand up to the

:11:25.:11:28.

president and say no, you've got that wrong, actually this is a

:11:29.:11:31.

better way of approaching things, we would have more clarity. That is the

:11:32.:11:36.

key point. -- we would have more clout. Would anybody listen to us if

:11:37.:11:42.

we deviated from the US? We are essentially the deputy to the US

:11:43.:11:46.

sheriff and everybody listens to the deputy and we need to agree. If we

:11:47.:11:53.

disagree with the US people will listen, do you agree with that? You

:11:54.:11:57.

pick your battles, you do not disagree with everything. Jeremy?

:11:58.:12:04.

Look at what happened before the Trump administration took over on

:12:05.:12:08.

the Israel Palestine issue. The government betrayed its position

:12:09.:12:13.

from a week before. Essentially attacked the Obama administration on

:12:14.:12:16.

its Security Council resolution that the UK Government had drafted for

:12:17.:12:23.

us. And voted for it. To me what that indicated was that the UK

:12:24.:12:28.

Government was afraid to be separate from the new American

:12:29.:12:32.

administration. And you can say... It is a sell-out. Maybe, but I think

:12:33.:12:37.

it is indicative of a larger problem any UK Government would have. Emily,

:12:38.:12:42.

do you think it would be difficult for politicians to tell the British

:12:43.:12:47.

public would Jeremy is saying? Look, guys, we are as important as Norway,

:12:48.:12:54.

maybe more, but we are a medium-sized power, we will find it

:12:55.:12:59.

difficult to swagger about, would you say that? I wouldn't say we have

:13:00.:13:03.

the same influence as Norway. We are not a superpower. Clearly. But I

:13:04.:13:08.

think we have and should continue to have much more influence than the

:13:09.:13:11.

size of our country because of all of the positives we have in our

:13:12.:13:16.

history and culturally what we have. And our connections. And we need to

:13:17.:13:21.

take advantage of that. Our place in international institutions is

:13:22.:13:26.

pivotal. We have been responsible for legal imperialism in the way

:13:27.:13:32.

we've exported human rights. We draft of the human rights which is

:13:33.:13:35.

now being used throughout. Which is why it is damaging to this

:13:36.:13:38.

government so we are not so keen on that like we used to be. Do you

:13:39.:13:44.

think soft power is more important than defence power? Give us some

:13:45.:13:48.

more advice. Is it spending more on defence, always the aid Budget that

:13:49.:13:49.

doesn't it? Soft power is what people appealed

:13:50.:14:00.

to when they want to talk about the power asset too nebulous to pin

:14:01.:14:05.

down. There is something real to it but hard to get your hands around

:14:06.:14:10.

and it does not move G-7 meetings. If we want to be heard above the

:14:11.:14:14.

cacophony of noise on foreign policy, if we had foreign policy

:14:15.:14:18.

that was a bit more principled unpredictable and people could

:14:19.:14:21.

understand the basis for decisions we could have a great deal more

:14:22.:14:23.

influence. Thank you both very much. It's been a year in which

:14:24.:14:25.

experts have been pitted But there is no case of that sadder

:14:26.:14:28.

than the one involving Charlie Gard, the eight month old baby

:14:29.:14:34.

with severe brain damage. The doctors at Great Ormond Street,

:14:35.:14:37.

think he must allowed to die peacefully, his parents

:14:38.:14:39.

are desperate for him to have a last shot at an experimental

:14:40.:14:42.

treatment in the US. They've raised the money for that,

:14:43.:14:44.

but to their bitter disappointment, the High Court found in favour

:14:45.:14:47.

of the medical professionals today. The parents' lawyer expressed

:14:48.:14:51.

their feelings after the verdict. Connie and Chris are facing every

:14:52.:15:04.

parent's worst nightmare, they are struggling to understand

:15:05.:15:06.

why the court has not at least given Charlie the chance

:15:07.:15:09.

of treatment in America. The medical evidence is complex

:15:10.:15:11.

and the treatment offered These are not easy issues

:15:12.:15:13.

and they remain utterly committed, like any parent, to wanting

:15:14.:15:16.

to do their outmost for their child. the judge and everybody who reads

:15:17.:15:24.

about the case, all have nothing but respect and sympathy

:15:25.:15:28.

for the parents, Connie and Chris Well, Professor Dominic Wilkinson

:15:29.:15:31.

is the Director of Medical Ethics at the Oxford Uehiro Centre

:15:32.:15:34.

and Sarah Barclay is the director Sarah also happens to sit

:15:35.:15:37.

on the Clinical Ethics Committee at Great Ormond Street Hospital,

:15:38.:15:44.

but is not tonight representing them Let's put the case of Charlie aside

:15:45.:15:47.

and talk general principles. Dominic, how do the experts decide,

:15:48.:16:06.

how do the professionals decide. What is in the interests of this

:16:07.:16:10.

child or a child in general. In these very difficult cases all

:16:11.:16:15.

anyone is trying to do is work out what is best for the child. They

:16:16.:16:19.

look at the different treatment options, they weigh up the risks and

:16:20.:16:25.

benefits of those different alternatives. And there is going to

:16:26.:16:28.

be different evidence that people look at. We focus on the individual

:16:29.:16:35.

and not on the statistics. And safer this child, does this particular

:16:36.:16:43.

experimental treatment or perhaps mainstream -- mainstream treatment,

:16:44.:16:47.

to the risks outweigh the benefits. There doing it, thinking about it in

:16:48.:16:54.

a spreadsheet mentality rather than an emotional mentality because I

:16:55.:16:57.

suppose in a way the question is which is more valid,? We should not

:16:58.:17:06.

undertake the role that emotion plays in any of our decisions. Of

:17:07.:17:12.

course these are taken very seriously and to the heart of all

:17:13.:17:15.

professionals involved. There are also trying to weigh up as

:17:16.:17:19.

impartially as they can the information available about the

:17:20.:17:23.

different treatment options. One of the reasons this dispute arises is

:17:24.:17:30.

because people look at the evidence and they weighed up in different

:17:31.:17:33.

ways, the parents, the professionals, and they come to

:17:34.:17:39.

different conclusions. Often with time and careful thought and

:17:40.:17:42.

conversation, it is possible to reach agreement but sometimes not.

:17:43.:17:49.

Sarah, you handle the process of trying to manage some of these

:17:50.:17:52.

complicated and difficult relationships. What is it that makes

:17:53.:17:57.

someone break down. I think that is an important question, the point at

:17:58.:18:02.

which a situation which is desperately painful and complex

:18:03.:18:06.

become something more confrontational and something we

:18:07.:18:10.

might describe as a conflict. And so our work has been focused for the

:18:11.:18:15.

last few years on trying to unpick what it is that causes these

:18:16.:18:19.

situations to occur. And often not always but often, it is about

:18:20.:18:23.

communication breaking down, trust breaking down between the treating

:18:24.:18:28.

team on the one team and the parents on the other. And when that begins

:18:29.:18:36.

to happen, you get a situation which is entrenched and when that goes to

:18:37.:18:40.

court and becomes a very public conflict, with the language of the

:18:41.:18:46.

battlefield, the winning and losing, in these situations there can be no

:18:47.:18:49.

real winners and losers. At the heart of it is a very sick child.

:18:50.:18:55.

What we would try to do is try and see it that you can begin to work

:18:56.:19:00.

with teams of clinicians to say when is this beginning to happen, what

:19:01.:19:05.

can we do to get in there earlier. Is it harder with parents with young

:19:06.:19:10.

children then it would be perhaps with a spouse, a husband or wife

:19:11.:19:16.

brain-damaged, is there something about the bond of the parent to a

:19:17.:19:20.

recently born child that makes it more complicated? It is incredibly

:19:21.:19:29.

powerful and strong and of course these are small, newborn babies in

:19:30.:19:33.

many cases and the parents are only just beginning to get to know them

:19:34.:19:37.

but their role as parents they feel is absolutely to be the advocate for

:19:38.:19:43.

that child. All research will show even if there is a minute percentage

:19:44.:19:48.

chance of success of any kind of treatment, they will jump at that

:19:49.:19:51.

chance. As parents that is quite understandable. Why would you ever

:19:52.:19:57.

want to stand in the way of the parents being the decider of what

:19:58.:20:03.

it's worth taking a risk on or not? Parents are at the heart of the

:20:04.:20:07.

decisions we make in intensive care, that I make when I'm working with

:20:08.:20:14.

very sick babies. And rightly so. But there are limits to the

:20:15.:20:19.

decisions parents can make. We are certain for example the treatment

:20:20.:20:24.

would benefit a child and we do not think it is parents -- it is right

:20:25.:20:30.

for parents to refuse treatment, chemotherapy for example that would

:20:31.:20:33.

certainly improve the chances of a child. On the other hand when

:20:34.:20:36.

parents request something that clinicians feel certain would do

:20:37.:20:42.

more harm than good... People do get it wrong sometimes. One of the

:20:43.:20:47.

things we try to do or should try to do is to be humble and acknowledge

:20:48.:20:53.

our uncertainty and there are going to be times where we are more

:20:54.:20:57.

uncertain than others. Where we are uncertain parents should have a

:20:58.:21:01.

fundamental role in these decisions. But sadly where we've come believe

:21:02.:21:07.

that a treatment cannot help, and in fact will do more harm than good, it

:21:08.:21:11.

is important that we make that does that decision that we have to make.

:21:12.:21:20.

Thank you both very much. -- that's sad decision.

:21:21.:21:22.

Time for a quick spot of Viewsnight now.

:21:23.:21:24.

This Sunday there's a referendum in Turkey -

:21:25.:21:26.

it's about a proposal to change the constitution, giving

:21:27.:21:28.

the president more power and getting rid of the post of Prime Minister.

:21:29.:21:31.

It is fair to say it is controversial; and here is Turkish

:21:32.:21:34.

author, Elif Safak to offer an opinion on it.

:21:35.:23:50.

Hear the words honour-based violence, and most of us will assume

:23:51.:23:55.

the victims in any particular case, are women.

:23:56.:23:57.

Coming from conservative religious communities,

:23:58.:24:02.

they can find themselves having to hide anything from sexual abuse

:24:03.:24:07.

to domestic violence to their being gay, because to speak

:24:08.:24:09.

out would potentially dishonour their families.

:24:10.:24:12.

At worst, that puts their own lives at risk.

:24:13.:24:16.

It's not much talked about, and frankly to most of us honour

:24:17.:24:19.

punishment of relatives is incomprehensible,

:24:20.:24:21.

but Newsnight has been speaking to men trapped in this predicament.

:24:22.:24:25.

Katie Razzall has this special report.

:24:26.:24:36.

What would members of the community think?

:24:37.:24:44.

I could have been disowned, I could have been forced to marry

:24:45.:24:49.

Being abused, you associate with women in the Asian community.

:24:50.:24:55.

Up to now when we talk about online abuse we tend to think of women.

:24:56.:25:08.

But Newsnight has uncovered another side to honour violence.

:25:09.:25:12.

And found whole groups of men silenced and ignored.

:25:13.:25:14.

Men can be hidden victims, of forced marriage, physical

:25:15.:25:16.

They're subject to the same cultural codes of kinship

:25:17.:25:22.

and honour as women, but they're telling

:25:23.:25:36.

Men like this British imam, who we are calling Meneer.

:25:37.:25:40.

He asked us to disguise his identity to protect him from repercussions.

:25:41.:25:43.

We are trained from a young age to keep the family honour intact.

:25:44.:25:46.

Even if it means that you might have experienced abuse or you might have

:25:47.:25:49.

At the age of ten to 11 if I remember correctly,

:25:50.:25:55.

a relative of mine used to come and visit us from overseas.

:25:56.:26:04.

And he would fondle, kiss, and he raped me once.

:26:05.:26:07.

And I remember that incident very clearly.

:26:08.:26:12.

It affected me to such an extent that about ten years ago

:26:13.:26:16.

I was on the point and on the verge of committing suicide

:26:17.:26:21.

and ending my life, despite the fact that I have been working as an imam

:26:22.:26:24.

and as a teacher for almost 25, 30 years.

:26:25.:26:28.

After decades of torment, Meneer finally told his family

:26:29.:26:31.

My family members, some of them were shocked.

:26:32.:26:38.

But again, they did not want me to take it further.

:26:39.:26:41.

And again, the reason is about honour, shame,

:26:42.:26:44.

It's about honour and fear of my life.

:26:45.:26:53.

One honour-based violence charity, Karma Nirvana, told Newsnight

:26:54.:26:56.

between 2015 and 2016, it saw an increase in men

:26:57.:26:59.

And Virgina International said from having no male

:27:00.:27:09.

victims contacting them, now one in five of their

:27:10.:27:11.

But still it's thought the majority don't talk to anyone.

:27:12.:27:15.

We've had contact with more than 70 alleged victims.

:27:16.:27:19.

These men have been shamed into silence and shockingly,

:27:20.:27:23.

many told us they'd contemplated suicide

:27:24.:27:28.

because of the torment they have gone through

:27:29.:27:30.

Being gay can dishonour a family and the wider community.

:27:31.:27:43.

From a young age he understood his homosexuality didn't fit

:27:44.:27:45.

Definitely I feared my life, I thought I could be killed.

:27:46.:27:51.

And that wasn't a joke, that was real.

:27:52.:27:54.

I felt I would be disowned for sure, and kicked out of the house.

:27:55.:27:57.

Definitely, I went through depression, suicidal tendencies.

:27:58.:28:01.

I used to think about it, yes, especially when I was at university,

:28:02.:28:07.

I used to think about throwing myself off the balcony or taking

:28:08.:28:10.

I wanted to find out more about these codes of honour

:28:11.:28:20.

and shame that silence men like Majinda.

:28:21.:28:24.

Charity worker Rani Bilku invited Newsnight to

:28:25.:28:25.

These practices have little to do with religion.

:28:26.:28:33.

And apply across communities, be they Hindu, Muslim, or Sikh.

:28:34.:28:37.

The concept of shame, it dishonours the whole community

:28:38.:28:39.

You're looking at the immediate family, you're looking

:28:40.:28:49.

at the community as a whole and that community can also belong

:28:50.:28:52.

to the community back home from where they've come from.

:28:53.:28:59.

In another part of Britain another man too ashamed to be identified.

:29:00.:29:02.

Haroun has escaped what he claims was an abusive marriage.

:29:03.:29:04.

But still fears the consequences of talking openly.

:29:05.:29:07.

My ex abused me financially, psychologically, emotionally.

:29:08.:29:08.

She had been doing it for a number of years.

:29:09.:29:11.

I didn't speak up before because I was afraid.

:29:12.:29:13.

Which led me to attempt suicide because I knew I had two choices.

:29:14.:29:21.

Either die, or live with the torture.

:29:22.:29:27.

Being abused you associate with women in the Asian community.

:29:28.:29:30.

If you associate it with men, it's like she's wearing

:29:31.:29:35.

That extra pressure is on you, it leads to other things.

:29:36.:29:45.

Today's video is about my coming out story.

:29:46.:29:48.

Majinda now lives openly as a gay Sikh.

:29:49.:29:51.

He has a YouTube channel and a book offering advice to South Asians

:29:52.:29:54.

about how to come out to the parents.

:29:55.:29:58.

-- about how to come out to their parents.

:29:59.:30:00.

People I knew were marrying, you know, women, even though

:30:01.:30:04.

they were gay, or they were killing themselves, having suicide.

:30:05.:30:06.

I came out via SMS when I was living in the Middle East.

:30:07.:30:12.

And that's the worst, well, I don't know, there's

:30:13.:30:20.

And what did being gay mean to your parents?

:30:21.:30:26.

You had sent them this text, what did they take from that?

:30:27.:30:29.

My mum having grown up in India, she had seen the Hijra population

:30:30.:30:32.

So that is the only concept she has of what is being non-straight.

:30:33.:30:36.

And she thought I was going to wear a sari and that

:30:37.:30:39.

And then she was like, I remember you had a penis

:30:40.:30:45.

when you were born, like, do you still have a penis?

:30:46.:30:48.

And my dad, who did have education in the UK for a few years,

:30:49.:30:53.

he thought I had a mental condition which meant that I couldn't work.

:30:54.:30:56.

And he told my mum I will work double hours at work

:30:57.:30:59.

His mum has been on quite a journey since.

:31:00.:31:09.

Even appearing in one of his videos about how to react to a gay child.

:31:10.:31:13.

There's a lot of shame and pride and ego involved,

:31:14.:31:17.

this is wrong, it's dirty, they're going to beat you up.

:31:18.:31:23.

And put a Black Decker drill up your arse.

:31:24.:31:25.

We're going to come and knock you out, you know,

:31:26.:31:28.

your sister is getting married, we're going to tell her in-laws

:31:29.:31:30.

In some cases keeping silent to protect family honour

:31:31.:31:41.

means abusers get away with serious criminal offences.

:31:42.:31:43.

Maneer only felt able to talk about what happened to him

:31:44.:31:48.

when his work as an imam put him in touch with other survivors.

:31:49.:31:51.

Up until that point I thought I was probably the only person

:31:52.:31:54.

who had probably experienced such a thing.

:31:55.:31:56.

After listening to at least 30, 40 case studies of young Muslim

:31:57.:32:01.

males and some females in this country who have experienced also

:32:02.:32:05.

abuses of a sexual nature, and some by clergy, I felt that

:32:06.:32:08.

Otherwise I would be answerable to God.

:32:09.:32:15.

There are individuals in our communities who have

:32:16.:32:17.

behaved in a manner which is totally unacceptable.

:32:18.:32:24.

What are the reasons why your community might think it

:32:25.:32:26.

would be a bad idea for you to talk about these sorts of issues?

:32:27.:32:30.

The Muslim community is like in a dock at the moment,

:32:31.:32:32.

everybody everywhere from every corner is scrutinising the Muslims

:32:33.:32:35.

for whatever they do, from what they wear,

:32:36.:32:39.

what they eat, what they do, how they behave.

:32:40.:32:42.

And bringing about something like this will only add,

:32:43.:32:44.

you know, to the problems of the Muslim community.

:32:45.:32:48.

However, I see it slightly differently.

:32:49.:32:51.

I believe that for a long time perpetrators of these type

:32:52.:32:56.

of offences, which are very serious in my eyes, I believe, have got away

:32:57.:33:00.

with it by using this card, that it will bring disrepute

:33:01.:33:02.

Maneer has not pressed charges against his relative,

:33:03.:33:06.

Perhaps most shockingly, he says his abuser went

:33:07.:33:17.

Katie Razzall with that report and for details of organisations

:33:18.:33:21.

which offer advice and support with forced marriage or honour

:33:22.:33:23.

violence, go online to bbc.co.uk/actionline.

:33:24.:33:32.

On Sunday, a new six part drama called Guerilla hits the small

:33:33.:33:35.

Two lovers take a stand amid the racial struggle of 1970s London.

:33:36.:33:46.

It's a storyline that focusses on the black

:33:47.:33:48.

Raising the question as to whether there is enough such

:33:49.:33:51.

portrayal in mainstream film and drama.

:33:52.:33:53.

Historian and broadcaster, David Olusoga thinks he might

:33:54.:33:55.

This time last year and the Oscars were being widely condemned

:33:56.:34:06.

after not a single non-white nominee had appeared in any

:34:07.:34:08.

Twitter burst into action, condemning the Academy under

:34:09.:34:20.

A year later and the film Moonlight, a stunning African-American

:34:21.:34:25.

coming-of-age story, won the Best Picture Oscar.

:34:26.:34:26.

TV, too, has undergone something of a transformation.

:34:27.:34:37.

In America there's been a lavish remake of the classic

:34:38.:34:41.

1970s miniseries, Roots, which starred the British actor

:34:42.:34:43.

On the BBC we've had Undercover, a drama in which the lead characters

:34:44.:34:53.

played by Sophie Okonedo and Adrian Lester,

:34:54.:34:59.

were what academics who studied cinema call "happen

:35:00.:35:01.

They were black, but race wasn't central to the story.

:35:02.:35:05.

All the speeches, the empty rhetoric, they do nothing.

:35:06.:35:07.

And this week Sky Atlantic premiers Guerilla, a drama set amidst

:35:08.:35:09.

the racial tensions of early 1970s London.

:35:10.:35:15.

There's also new feature documentaries that

:35:16.:35:17.

13th uncovers a loophole in the 13th Amendment of the US Constitution,

:35:18.:35:24.

A loophole that historically has weaponised the US criminal justice

:35:25.:35:30.

The story of the negro in America is the story of America.

:35:31.:35:38.

While I'm Not Your Negro is an award-winning biopic of one

:35:39.:35:43.

of America's greatest writers and sages.

:35:44.:35:45.

Has Hollywood and TV on both sides of the Atlantic had an epiphany,

:35:46.:35:57.

or has this just been a good year, a blip?

:35:58.:36:01.

David Olusoga is with us and we're also joined by the director

:36:02.:36:04.

Good evening. David, we know you are optimistic, you have seen a lot

:36:05.:36:20.

going on, do you feel that way? No. CHUCKLES

:36:21.:36:25.

If we look at the UK situation, if you go back to the 1970s we had a

:36:26.:36:33.

series like Empire Road, we had a cop series, which was the first

:36:34.:36:40.

black detective series. We also had in the 1980s a spate of comedies. No

:36:41.:36:50.

Problem. On the BBC also commissioned some TV series. -- and

:36:51.:36:57.

the BBC also commissioned some TV series. Where is the black voice

:36:58.:37:03.

now? Where are the writers? Where are the stories being told on a

:37:04.:37:10.

consistent basis? We had ongoing series in the 1970s and 1980s but I

:37:11.:37:14.

don't see that now. Are you excited by Gorilla coming out? -- Guerilla

:37:15.:37:26.

coming out? I don't know about it, I don't know who the writers are. As

:37:27.:37:31.

this is not opened up something? Suddenly a realisation that this was

:37:32.:37:36.

a set of powerful stories and great characters and actors, and maybe

:37:37.:37:40.

this is something people have cottoned on to, but has he not hew

:37:41.:37:45.

out of that feeling? I am excited about Guerilla. I'm also excited

:37:46.:37:52.

that Idris Elba was not only starring in it but he's also the

:37:53.:37:55.

producer. I think what is different from the 70s, 80s and 90s, we now

:37:56.:38:01.

have a company of some of the greatest black actors we've ever

:38:02.:38:04.

produced. This golden generation of British black actors who are sliding

:38:05.:38:10.

across the world. And some of them like Idris are using their megastar

:38:11.:38:16.

power in television and cinema on both sides of the Atlantic. That is

:38:17.:38:21.

how Hollywood works. We talk about people being players. We've not had

:38:22.:38:25.

that before. I'm more concerned about the British situation because

:38:26.:38:30.

we often get into the American situation. But he became a star

:38:31.:38:33.

because he went to America because he didn't get any opportunities

:38:34.:38:38.

here. My issue is that the actors are leaving here to go to America

:38:39.:38:41.

because they don't have the opportunities. That is my issue. If

:38:42.:38:47.

we focus on the British situation, there is not the development that we

:38:48.:38:51.

have seen previously. And I am looking at the writers, where are

:38:52.:38:57.

the Black writers in British television, the black directors?

:38:58.:39:02.

These are the storytellers. For me, we can look at the American

:39:03.:39:06.

situation, which has its differences and contradictions, but I am

:39:07.:39:10.

focusing on the UK. We need statistics to see if it is getting

:39:11.:39:15.

better or worst... We can know by looking at where is the presence?

:39:16.:39:19.

What is the presence of black content? You used this interesting

:39:20.:39:25.

phrase, happened to be black characters, which is more important

:39:26.:39:30.

for portrayal and diversity? Is it black themed dramas that are about

:39:31.:39:35.

the black experience, or is it mainstream dramas, or any eternal

:39:36.:39:39.

narratives that affect everybody, and in which there are black

:39:40.:39:44.

characters, it is not about them being black? It is both. If you ask

:39:45.:39:49.

a black actor they would like to be involved in roles where they can

:39:50.:39:53.

talk about the world they come from, their experiences of their families

:39:54.:39:56.

and communities, but they'd also like to be on Albert Square. They

:39:57.:40:03.

would like to be a policeman... We are talking about the menu of things

:40:04.:40:10.

that is available. You can have characters which are coming from a

:40:11.:40:15.

non-specific place, and you can have characters and stories which are

:40:16.:40:18.

race specific. That is part of the menu. My point is we are not seeing

:40:19.:40:24.

the culturally specific, because it makes us grow as a society. It

:40:25.:40:29.

introduces us to new worlds. We are not progressing in that area. Is the

:40:30.:40:36.

problem... For good or bad, there is the tyranny of the majority. If 85%

:40:37.:40:41.

of people are not vegetarians, you will find meet in most

:40:42.:40:51.

restaurants... -- meat in most restaurants. I don't accept that.

:40:52.:40:58.

The problem is, as an independent film-maker, I come across writers

:40:59.:41:02.

who are talented but they cannot get a foothold in television or movies.

:41:03.:41:06.

So if I am trying to get a product off the ground with a writer, the

:41:07.:41:10.

writer has no track record, so we end up in a vicious cycle.

:41:11.:41:17.

Absolutely. We need the writers, we need to stories, because it helps

:41:18.:41:21.

the menu, it helps make society much better place. We must leave it to

:41:22.:41:26.

there. Thank you, David. That is it for tonight.

:41:27.:41:27.

Before we go, you've probably all seen the United Airlines video

:41:28.:41:30.

by now, several times, where a passenger refuses to give

:41:31.:41:32.

up his seat on an overbooked flight and airport security are summoned

:41:33.:41:35.

to 're-accomodate' him in an unconventionally forceful way.

:41:36.:41:37.

So we leave you with this United Airlines Customer Care

:41:38.:41:40.

Training Video that's doing the rounds.

:41:41.:41:41.

Stewardess, please, let me handle this.

:41:42.:41:55.

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