27/04/2017 Newsnight


27/04/2017

The stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark, as the government is made to publish its air pollution report. Plus Trump's first 100 days and Armando Iannucci.


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Transcript


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The Government comes a cropper in the High Court.

:00:00.:00:07.

Its draft plan for clean air will have to be published before

:00:08.:00:10.

London was enveloped in a 40 mile belt of fog.

:00:11.:00:16.

1952 - 4,000 people died from the Great Smog,

:00:17.:00:19.

Today, the judge cited 23,000 deaths from diesel fuel

:00:20.:00:27.

But are there more votes now in leaving drivers to pollute?

:00:28.:00:31.

This man was Energy Secretary in the last government.

:00:32.:00:33.

Donald Trump celebrates 100 days in the White House this weekend.

:00:34.:00:41.

We're in post industrial Detroit where the white working class voters

:00:42.:00:44.

His spirit spoke to their need for a change.

:00:45.:00:48.

When they heard somebody say, "I'm going to remember you,

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I'm going to speak directly to you, I'm going to fix the problem,

:00:51.:00:53.

I'm the man to do it, based on my experience",

:00:54.:00:56.

he won over the hearts and the minds of the tens of millions of people.

:00:57.:01:00.

Armando Ianucci and the new president of the National Union

:01:01.:01:02.

of Students on getting young people to vote.

:01:03.:01:04.

I remember one very senior minister telling me,

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that if it was the last day of an election campaign and he had

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a choice between canvassing a hall of residence or an old people's

:01:11.:01:13.

home, you do the old people's home any day.

:01:14.:01:31.

23,500 deaths a year from nitrogen dioxide poisoning.

:01:32.:01:38.

That figure was cited by the High Court judge today

:01:39.:01:40.

in his ruling that the Government cannot block the publication

:01:41.:01:44.

of their draft clean air plan until after the general election.

:01:45.:01:48.

They claimed publication would "drop a controversial bomb" into the mix

:01:49.:01:51.

of local and national elections, but that didn't wash,

:01:52.:01:55.

and after the local elections we'll find out what Theresa May plans

:01:56.:01:58.

to do about reducing dirty diesel - the main culprit.

:01:59.:02:02.

The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, said he hoped that the government

:02:03.:02:05.

will urgently introduce a diesel scrappage fund to rid our streets

:02:06.:02:08.

of the dirtiest cars, and give financial incentives

:02:09.:02:10.

Here's our technology editor, David Grossman.

:02:11.:02:25.

How does the Government plan to clean up our air? It is as important

:02:26.:02:33.

a question as it is urgent. But ministers are fighting shy of

:02:34.:02:37.

providing any answers. By 4pm on Monday they should have

:02:38.:02:41.

published their plan, but they asked the High Court for a delay, until

:02:42.:02:45.

after the general election. The judge though, agreed with the

:02:46.:02:50.

organisation that had taken them to court in the first place, Client

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Earth The judge listened to claims it kneed to delay, and he rejected

:02:56.:03:02.

them vigorously, and is keeping the Government to the deadline to

:03:03.:03:07.

release the final plan on July 31. The judge was forthright about the

:03:08.:03:10.

cost of delays any plan, what did you make of that? The judge has read

:03:11.:03:16.

the evidence, and was Defra's own evidence that up to 40,000 people a

:03:17.:03:22.

year die of air pollution in the UK. And what the judge said is merely

:03:23.:03:26.

because there is an election going on, doesn't trump the public health.

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This is not a political issue, one day of delay is important. Weeks or

:03:30.:03:33.

months is intolerable. That is what the judge decided and in my view he

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was right. Make no mistake this was a huge blow

:03:38.:03:41.

to the Government's attempt to keep a lid on the growing scandal of air

:03:42.:03:46.

pollution. The young was in fact contemptuous on the goot's attempt

:03:47.:03:49.

to delay again the publication of the a plan the clean-up the air. He

:03:50.:03:54.

told them in terms to get on with it because delays mean people are

:03:55.:04:00.

dying. In his judgment, the judge said:

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A big contributor to this problem say researchers is the Government

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encouraging drives to buy diesel cars because they produce less CO2

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than petrol cars. Diesel went from being under 10% of sales in 1995, to

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over half by the start of this decade.

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People who bought diesels in good faith need had been to traps for to

:04:38.:04:41.

clean vehicle, that is part of what needs to happen, hence the carefully

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crafted scrappage scheme, but it needs to happen, we need to get rid

:04:47.:04:51.

of diesel, phase out diesel as soon as possible and ultimately petrol

:04:52.:04:54.

too. What we didn't know, is that the

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environmental test that diesel vehicles had to meet boar no

:05:00.:05:04.

relation to real world conditions so the amount of nitrogen dioxide they

:05:05.:05:08.

pumped out, was far in excess of what the Government was expecting.

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For example, the amount of nitrogen dioxide measured by this testing

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site on London's Marylebone Road was double the EU legal limit last year.

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The Government's problem is not so much presenting the plan as the

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price tag. Who is going to be made to pay? The people who made the

:05:27.:05:30.

diesel car, the people who drive them? Or the taxpayer? Either way

:05:31.:05:35.

the best time to present such a massive bill, is not right before a

:05:36.:05:40.

general election. One group that represents drivers

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fears that diesel owners will get punished for the simple reason they

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are the easiest to tax. Only 10% of the problem comes from diesel cars.

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90% comes from buses and trains and roadside construction equipment.

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Even, you are looking at boilers from commercial outlets in London.

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90% of nitrogen dioxide comes from those source, only 10% comes from

:06:07.:06:13.

car, that what we are concern about. Those owners are all expected to pay

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a tax hike, and that is wrong. The Government we are told hasn't

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decided what to do next. But, as things stand, ministers will have to

:06:25.:06:28.

publish their draft plan, in just 12 days' time.

:06:29.:06:32.

Ed Davey is a Liberal Democrat MP who served in the coalition

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government as Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change

:06:36.:06:40.

Matthew Pencharz was London's Deputy Mayor

:06:41.:06:42.

for Environment Energy under Boris Johnson - and now works

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The statistics are shocking. Why does it need a court to make the

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Government come clean on plans for diesel? Well, it is good question.

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Ministers should be hanging their heads in shame. They have

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prevaricated. They are trying to hide this from the electorate when

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this is a public health scanle. People talk about public health

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issues but the air pollution, the damage it does to health is bigger

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than the crisis of obesity and alcohol abuse, it is that

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significant. There was no justification for the delay, it was

:07:20.:07:24.

going to be some huge controversy if it came out before the general

:07:25.:07:28.

election, what could that be? Your report sums it up. They don't want

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to go into an election, with punishing diesel drives, that

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doesn't strike me as good governance, but I think politicians

:07:40.:07:42.

on the stump don't want to face as their QC put it the Tory tax on

:07:43.:07:47.

diesel plan. But we have known about this problem for years and since

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2010 we have been nowhere near the EU limit so it a plague on all your

:07:52.:07:55.

house, every politician, every adviser. Liberal Democrats took this

:07:56.:08:04.

seriously. Vince Cable made big steps forward with electric

:08:05.:08:07.

vehicles. I did a lot on energy efficiency in homes because that is

:08:08.:08:11.

important, because a lot of the nitrogen dioxide comes from burning

:08:12.:08:17.

gas, so we took a big issue. Let us be clear, I would suggest the

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coalition was perhaps no better because the environmentmental audit

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committee in 2014 said the Government failed to face the

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problem. You were the government. We were the Liberal Democrat side of

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the Government. You were the Government. The Liberal Democrats

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took action, our Conservative colleagues wouldn't. This, the

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people who are in charge of this are people like Owen part son at Defra

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who failed to take it seriously. Norman Baker did, I did, Vince Cable

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did. But you were impotent. We took action which helped but our

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colleagues time and again refused to act. I am 23409 suggesting you are

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the Conservative Government, you were the deputy mayor under Boris

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Johnson, what do you think the measures are in the draft plan?

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Well, the first thing I should say for my experience, the coalition

:09:04.:09:08.

Government didn't step up until it was forced to by losingings, in the

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Supreme Court round two years ago, and from my experience at City Hall,

:09:14.:09:18.

Liberal Democrat ministers were not, were just as difficult to engage

:09:19.:09:23.

with, I guess than their Conservative counter pars. We took

:09:24.:09:29.

action. Let me answer that point. Clear examples of actions we took.

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We took action but Boris Johnson went to Brussels to try to argue and

:09:34.:09:38.

make coalitions to undermine the European standards. So Boris

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Johnson, far from showing leadership, he tried to undermine

:09:42.:09:48.

action on air pollution. And of course, you know, 2014, from 2010 to

:09:49.:09:53.

2014, you were so far behind in London, Boris Johnson did not do

:09:54.:09:58.

enough to reduce emissions nitrogen dioxide. There is a few things I

:09:59.:10:03.

would like to challenge. The first about going to Brussels to water

:10:04.:10:07.

down the rule, that wasn't true. When I went to Brussels it was to

:10:08.:10:13.

get the diesel real world driving tests to work properly. And we had a

:10:14.:10:18.

coalition of other heavily populated industrial areas of Europe, around

:10:19.:10:23.

going to the Commission, trying to get united action... You are not

:10:24.:10:27.

going to have to worry about that for much longer. Can we go back to

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the point. People would like to know, what will in you view be the

:10:32.:10:35.

principle measures in the draft plans? I think we will see more

:10:36.:10:41.

clean air zone, so we saw my former boss Boris Johnson create the ultra

:10:42.:10:46.

low-emission zone and kudos to Sadiq Khan is bringing forward, he is

:10:47.:10:50.

bringing them faster than we were. That is is a good thing. You will

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see the Government bringing more clean air zones in. My concern is

:10:54.:10:57.

they are a bit of a blunt instrument. But the cost. It is not

:10:58.:11:03.

so much what you do, is the cost of, what is the cost of do deucing it?

:11:04.:11:09.

There is a huge cost on people's health. There is an overall saving

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if you take it over a period of years and therefore the Government

:11:15.:11:18.

can't hide behind cost, that is an excuse for not taking... But if, if

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the action is, is going to be tough, and it comes out of, I assume the

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reason the Government did not want this to come out before the election

:11:30.:11:34.

because it will have consequences, for the so-called white van man who

:11:35.:11:38.

will be hit badly. It is right about the medical and health impact and

:11:39.:11:42.

the cost to the NHS. And that will be spread widely across society. The

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difficult for the politician is, that bringing forward these diesel

:11:48.:11:52.

bans or charges, is you are imposing high costs on a relatively few

:11:53.:11:56.

number of people, so if you look at the impact assessments for the clean

:11:57.:12:00.

air zones, the original plan the High Court ruled illegal, that was a

:12:01.:12:05.

billion pounds, if you look at what the compliance cost it was 250

:12:06.:12:08.

million in one year. Briefly is it wrong to go after diesel drivers? It

:12:09.:12:13.

was supposedly according to the witness in that film it was only

:12:14.:12:17.

10%. We can help diesel drivers go to electric vehicles but it is not

:12:18.:12:22.

just diesel cars it is lorry, training, other aspects if we are

:12:23.:12:27.

able to use less gas... And that will be in the plans? It is

:12:28.:12:31.

certainly Liberal Democrat plans. Thank you very much indeed.

:12:32.:12:32.

Well, let's turn to another potential headache for

:12:33.:12:39.

the Conseratives ahead of the general election: what should

:12:40.:12:41.

or should they not promise voters they will do on the amount

:12:42.:12:44.

Nick Watt's here with some insight on their thoughts.

:12:45.:12:48.

I Philip Hammond buzz badly burned in his recent budget when he said he

:12:49.:12:56.

would increase the rate of national insurance contributions for the

:12:57.:13:00.

self-employed. He quickly withdrew that after it district he

:13:01.:13:03.

contradicted the last Conservative manifesto which said there would be

:13:04.:13:08.

no raise in income tax, VAT on National Insurance contributions so

:13:09.:13:11.

the Chancellor wants to avoid what he regards as the transactional

:13:12.:13:15.

approach of his predecessor, but here is his dilemma, he does not

:13:16.:13:20.

want to make specific commitments, that would bind his hands, but he

:13:21.:13:26.

does need to make what allies are describing as measurable commitments

:13:27.:13:29.

to give him credibility as a low tax party, and to allow him to attack

:13:30.:13:34.

Labour as a high tack party. What might we see in the manifesto on

:13:35.:13:39.

tax? Might we have an echo of the formula that Philip Hammond helped

:13:40.:13:42.

George Osborne draw up in the years when they were in opposition before

:13:43.:13:47.

the financial crash which was that a future Conservative Government would

:13:48.:13:50.

share the proceeds of growth to fund tax cuts and spending increases but

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the Hammond version would be simpler, it would say as the economy

:13:55.:13:59.

grows, the tax burden should fall, but, he may go a step further, there

:14:00.:14:04.

is an idea that has been examined in the Treasury, and that says you

:14:05.:14:07.

would give a commitment, that you would not increase the basic higher

:14:08.:14:13.

or additional tax rates, but the Chancellor would need wriggle room

:14:14.:14:18.

to raise revenue so would rely on an old friend of the Treasury, called

:14:19.:14:22.

fiscal drag, what that means is do you raise the threshold at which

:14:23.:14:29.

people pay hiring tax and that means more people would pay that 40%

:14:30.:14:32.

higher tax rate. Thank you.

:14:33.:14:33.

On Saturday Donald Trump will have been President and Commander

:14:34.:14:37.

He's got very little legislation through Congress and his approval

:14:38.:14:41.

ratings don't look good, 41% - substantially lower

:14:42.:14:43.

than any other other modern president at this stage in his term.

:14:44.:14:46.

But how is he faring among the working class white voters

:14:47.:14:49.

who ditched the Democrats and propelled him to the White House

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on the promise that he would make America great again by making mines

:14:52.:14:55.

factories and steel mills come back to life?

:14:56.:14:56.

Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban has been to Detroit where blue collar

:14:57.:15:02.

workers put all their hopes in Donald Trump.

:15:03.:15:29.

If you want to see rusted-out factories scattered

:15:30.:15:32.

Michigan voted twice for Obama but last November

:15:33.:15:38.

With its recent history of industrial decline,

:15:39.:15:49.

his 'Make America great again' message carried the state.

:15:50.:15:54.

When they heard somebody say "I'm going to remember you,

:15:55.:15:59.

I'm going to speak directly to you, I'm going to fix the problem,

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I'm the man to do it based on my experience,"

:16:03.:16:05.

he won over the hearts and minds of the tens of millions of people,

:16:06.:16:09.

and including the Michiganders that turned the state red.

:16:10.:16:17.

So where better to look for the voters' verdict on those

:16:18.:16:21.

Of course in a neighbourhood like this in Detroit many

:16:22.:16:36.

of the first hundred days issues that resonate in Washington have no

:16:37.:16:39.

meaning whatsoever and if you come here looking for signs of buyers'

:16:40.:16:45.

regret on the part of Trump voters, you'll be disappointed.

:16:46.:16:49.

In the post-apocalyptic remains of Detroit's industrial heyday,

:16:50.:16:54.

Alan Hill scavenges metal and looks to his president for change.

:16:55.:16:57.

The previous administration seemed to alienate people's ideas

:16:58.:17:10.

and broke their dreams and Trump has put a lot of faith back

:17:11.:17:13.

And out where they still produce vehicles in vast quantities,

:17:14.:17:17.

you'll hear similar expressions of faith in the president.

:17:18.:17:30.

50% of the union members in my plant voted for Donald Trump.

:17:31.:17:33.

Across the road from the Ford plant where he works,

:17:34.:17:35.

Brian explained why so many blue-collar workers here deserted

:17:36.:17:38.

the Democrats and why Trump's record so far doesn't disappoint.

:17:39.:17:40.

I am 100% satisfied with Donald Trump's efforts to this point.

:17:41.:17:45.

I think he has fought very hard to do exactly what he pledged to do

:17:46.:17:51.

in terms of immigration policy, securing our borders,

:17:52.:17:53.

I have been very disappointed, however, with Congress -

:17:54.:18:03.

both Democrats and Republicans - for them not being able to implement

:18:04.:18:05.

Of course, there are plenty of Trump critics here, too.

:18:06.:18:16.

Most notably for his immigration executive orders.

:18:17.:18:22.

The largest Muslim population in the country is in my district.

:18:23.:18:28.

Targeting people because of their faith, of religion,

:18:29.:18:31.

I know he talked about it, but you just don't understand how

:18:32.:18:37.

these communities are being divided with fear and hatred.

:18:38.:18:41.

But in some ways, it's also communities coming together.

:18:42.:18:48.

You've never seen them come together before,

:18:49.:18:50.

and that gives you a feeling of hope in some ways, but this

:18:51.:18:53.

Issues of security, national and economic,

:18:54.:19:01.

have long run harmoniously together in this state.

:19:02.:19:05.

The Yankee Museum maintains this pristine B-17 and it was here

:19:06.:19:15.

when it opened at Willow Run, Michigan, that the world's

:19:16.:19:17.

And they're coming off the assembly line as fast

:19:18.:19:21.

They constructed more than 8000 Liberator bombers here,

:19:22.:19:26.

applying the car industry's manufacturing methods

:19:27.:19:28.

The fact of the matter was every 55 minutes an aircraft was coming

:19:29.:19:34.

off a production line, just in this plant alone,

:19:35.:19:36.

and Germany, Japan, our enemies in the Mediterranean,

:19:37.:19:38.

there was no way to be able to compete with that

:19:39.:19:41.

So President Trump came to Willow Run last month, promising

:19:42.:19:48.

This facility, this city and this nation will once again shine

:19:49.:19:54.

So this, it's clear, is the Trump style.

:19:55.:20:03.

A permanent campaign and a one-man assembly-line

:20:04.:20:05.

One reason why Trump came to Willow Run is because here,

:20:06.:20:18.

on a part of the old bomb factory, they're planning a test

:20:19.:20:21.

facility for the automated vehicles of the future.

:20:22.:20:23.

So what do those who met him think of Trump's promise

:20:24.:20:26.

I couldn't hazard a guess on what that would mean for jobs

:20:27.:20:32.

I will say this, that if the technology's going

:20:33.:20:37.

to revolutionise the way that we move people and goods,

:20:38.:20:42.

and to that extent, if we don't focus on this technology,

:20:43.:20:46.

we will lose a lot more, a lot more jobs that are around

:20:47.:20:49.

engineering and making the system work, making vehicles work.

:20:50.:20:53.

Near the plant, the Bomber diner serves up 'bomber burgers'

:20:54.:20:56.

It's popular with veterans and those who served have

:20:57.:21:04.

often been unimpressed with their new President's

:21:05.:21:05.

He is learning how complex things are, he thought they were simple.

:21:06.:21:19.

He said, "Who knew health care could be so complicated?"

:21:20.:21:21.

Now he's saying "Who knew that international relations

:21:22.:21:23.

could be so complicated, who knew that Korea or Syria

:21:24.:21:25.

And so he's really done nothing in 100 days other than to get

:21:26.:21:30.

a Supreme Court judge put on the bench.

:21:31.:21:36.

So what, I asked the woman who ran Trump's campaign in the state,

:21:37.:21:39.

should we make of the discarded promises or admissions

:21:40.:21:42.

that he hadn't realised it was all so complicated?

:21:43.:21:45.

That's what the American people wanted.

:21:46.:21:46.

We wanted someone to say, "Wow, this is tougher than I imagined."

:21:47.:21:49.

I think that message of honesty speaks to the voters

:21:50.:21:51.

For the president to say "This is tougher than I thought

:21:52.:22:00.

it was going to be", or "I'm surprised by how complicated

:22:01.:22:03.

it is," I think that speaks to his to his strength as a man,

:22:04.:22:06.

And if the issue of preserving American jobs is paramount here

:22:07.:22:12.

Last month, General Motors started shedding more than 1000 jobs

:22:13.:22:16.

Some are going elsewhere in the US but each new factory announcement

:22:17.:22:22.

now gets scrutinised as a success or failure for Trump and the fight

:22:23.:22:28.

You will hear any number of reasons advanced for why things like this

:22:29.:22:33.

From the strength of the dollar, that's one that President Trump

:22:34.:22:41.

himself has used, to people here locally blaming uncompetitive

:22:42.:22:43.

dumping of goods, cheaper production elsewhere,

:22:44.:22:45.

And it is that sort of message that carried President Trump to power

:22:46.:22:56.

but which also now informs the debate in a place like this,

:22:57.:23:03.

where even some leading members of the Democratic Party are echoing

:23:04.:23:05.

the President's protectionist language.

:23:06.:23:06.

What we need is a level playing field so we need to make

:23:07.:23:10.

sure that people aren't manipulating their currency.

:23:11.:23:11.

I want to see currency manipulation enforcement.

:23:12.:23:18.

Now I'm hearing you as a Democrat congresswoman effectively urging

:23:19.:23:20.

Trump to remain true to his campaign platform.

:23:21.:23:28.

But go look, you'll find me in August of 2015,

:23:29.:23:32.

saying Donald Trump was exciting people.

:23:33.:23:37.

And I think that people - and I don't agree with him

:23:38.:23:48.

on many things he's done but my responsibility

:23:49.:23:51.

is to work for the working men and women in our districts.

:23:52.:23:53.

And if he's going to do something that's going to fix bad trade

:23:54.:23:57.

policies, my job is to work with him to do that.

:23:58.:23:59.

Viewed from Michigan or middle American generally,

:24:00.:24:06.

the effort to revive the economy and protect jobs form the central

:24:07.:24:09.

narrative of Trump's administration so far.

:24:10.:24:11.

In that sense, he's redefined politics here, even if he's far

:24:12.:24:14.

from demonstrating he's found the answers.

:24:15.:24:23.

Mark, we saw there Trump voters standing by their man.

:24:24.:24:30.

And we're getting a clearer sense of his plan to

:24:31.:24:32.

Absolutely. If you are in a place like Michigan, you think, how can

:24:33.:24:45.

you really reverse the tide of industrial decline? One of the key

:24:46.:24:50.

answers unveiled this week is an ambitious plan for tax reform. It is

:24:51.:24:55.

being billed as the most ambitious ever. Central to that, plans

:24:56.:25:00.

announced by the Treasury Secretary here to cut corporation tax is by a

:25:01.:25:09.

huge margin, from 35% to just 15%. And to cut personal taxation fans

:25:10.:25:17.

from 7% to 3%, to reduce the overall burden of taxation. They argue that

:25:18.:25:23.

if they can't these corporate taxes, many companies, famously Apple,

:25:24.:25:26.

which has kept hundreds of billions in profits overseas, will repatriate

:25:27.:25:34.

those monies, the tax take will go up and offset by the fact that they

:25:35.:25:39.

are cutting it to 15%, you have a massive decrease in tax. And that

:25:40.:25:43.

that money, as it is repatriated, could also be used to fund research

:25:44.:25:48.

and development and new factories and all the rest of it. That is

:25:49.:25:53.

their message but many Republicans in the Senate and Congress do not

:25:54.:25:58.

believe that message. They feel that this is a dangerous gamble, that the

:25:59.:26:03.

loss of tax receipts could easily be $1 trillion in the next few years of

:26:04.:26:07.

this ambitious change, and how on earth will it be funded other than

:26:08.:26:12.

by running up huge debt? That, if you like, will be the central gamble

:26:13.:26:18.

of the Trump platform to revive the economy. Mark, thank you.

:26:19.:26:20.

Now Viewsnight, the part of the programme designed

:26:21.:26:22.

While the manifesto writers are wrestling with what to promise

:26:23.:26:27.

and not to promise after June 8th, one of David Cameron's

:26:28.:26:30.

former speechwriters, the commentator Julian Glover

:26:31.:26:31.

suggests a radical way to make our highways...super.

:26:32.:26:42.

It's time to pay as you drive. No one likes roads. We are not fans of

:26:43.:26:52.

the M25. That was Julian Glover,

:26:53.:28:18.

who is also director of the Wolfson Economics Prize

:28:19.:28:20.

which this year is looking at ideas In the 2015 election,

:28:21.:28:23.

as per usual fewer young people voted than any other age group -

:28:24.:28:33.

following an established trend. And the chasm was at its deepest

:28:34.:28:40.

between the youngest and the oldest - so 43% of 18-24s put a paper

:28:41.:28:43.

in the ballot box, as against The writer and satirist

:28:44.:28:46.

Armando Iannucci has become so exercised about this disconnect,

:28:47.:28:51.

that he's been trying to brew up a Twitter storm,

:28:52.:28:54.

with a campaign to get three million 18-24 year olds to register to vote

:28:55.:28:57.

before the deadline of May 22nd. "I beg you on my gnarled and brittle

:28:58.:29:01.

knees, register to vote, then vote." I spoke earlier to the man who likes

:29:02.:29:12.

to make a mockery of politicians about his desperation,

:29:13.:29:15.

to get young people I asked him whether he really

:29:16.:29:17.

believed that young people held this I think it's important that young

:29:18.:29:21.

people engage as much as possible in the election,

:29:22.:29:30.

because if they don't, they lose. If you look at how politics has

:29:31.:29:32.

conducted itself over the 20 years, the young vote has gone down,

:29:33.:29:35.

so a lot fewer voters between 18 and 24 vote than,

:29:36.:29:38.

say, voters over 65, so as a result, people over 65

:29:39.:29:40.

are courted by politicians. I remember one very senior minister

:29:41.:29:49.

telling me that if it was the last day of an election campaign,

:29:50.:29:52.

and he had a choice between canvassing a hall

:29:53.:29:55.

of residence or an old people's home, you do the old people's home

:29:56.:29:58.

any day because they're the ones And as a result, young people have

:29:59.:30:01.

been abused by the system. It's young people who have had,

:30:02.:30:12.

you know, their housing benefit cut, their Education Maintenance

:30:13.:30:15.

Allowance cut, they're not part of the living wage until age 25,

:30:16.:30:17.

they're an easy target. So the more young people vote,

:30:18.:30:19.

irrespective of who they vote for, the more they have something that

:30:20.:30:22.

politicians are after, But don't you want young people

:30:23.:30:24.

to vote in a particular way? So you would like young people,

:30:25.:30:29.

I would imagine, to vote for Remain candidates,

:30:30.:30:32.

or tactically vote You only want them to vote

:30:33.:30:33.

if they vote your way. No, no, no, this is

:30:34.:30:41.

how democracy works. I saw one opinion poll that showed

:30:42.:30:43.

that young people might split more in favour

:30:44.:30:48.

of the Tories this election. I'd rather they voted

:30:49.:30:50.

than they didn't vote. It's also about how politics

:30:51.:30:53.

is going to function in the future. If politicians rely more and more

:30:54.:30:56.

on the fewer and fewer people who do come out in elections,

:30:57.:30:59.

it does mean that a larger percentage of the population are

:31:00.:31:01.

just ignored and forgotten about. So should young people be allowed

:31:02.:31:09.

to vote at 16, as they did Yes, initially when that was

:31:10.:31:12.

announced in Scotland, I was a bit concerned,

:31:13.:31:15.

but the level of debate, the excitement and also the fact

:31:16.:31:18.

that 16 and 17-year-olds for the first time felt really

:31:19.:31:20.

involved in fundamentally important decisions about their country's

:31:21.:31:23.

future, really galvanised an interest in politics,

:31:24.:31:24.

so I am all for opening that up. David Cameron was given

:31:25.:31:27.

the opportunity to allow 16, 17-year-olds to vote in the EU

:31:28.:31:29.

referendum and he said no, because he was thinking about how it

:31:30.:31:32.

might affect the Tory vote If he had said yes, then he may well

:31:33.:31:35.

be Prime Minister still. But don't people 65-plus have

:31:36.:31:50.

as a legitimate right to have their views heard

:31:51.:31:52.

as people under 25? I am also saying, if you think none

:31:53.:31:56.

of the above, then spoil your paper, I don't care, I just want you to get

:31:57.:32:03.

out and register, because as soon as you register you have that one

:32:04.:32:06.

thing that a politician needs off Isn't there a terrific irony in this

:32:07.:32:09.

- you have spent much of your life writing brilliant satire

:32:10.:32:22.

about the terrible state our politicians are in, you know,

:32:23.:32:24.

The Thick Of It here, Veep in America, satirising

:32:25.:32:26.

politicians for being venal, being stupid, pursuing their own

:32:27.:32:28.

agendas, so you kind People say why should

:32:29.:32:30.

I care about them? What has happened there is I have

:32:31.:32:37.

responded to that in my own way, which is through doing things

:32:38.:32:41.

like The Thick Of It. I think you cannot change politics -

:32:42.:32:44.

if you are angry like I've been angry about the state of politics,

:32:45.:32:49.

but if you care about politics as much as I care,

:32:50.:32:51.

you have to do something, and I think that something must

:32:52.:32:54.

start with at least registering, showing an interest,

:32:55.:32:57.

and then getting out and voting. Are you are putting your hand

:32:58.:32:59.

on your heart and saying it doesn't matter to you if every single person

:33:00.:33:07.

between 18 and 25 was, for example, to vote for Theresa May,

:33:08.:33:10.

it wouldn't matter to you? A British Prime Minister,

:33:11.:33:13.

if they have a massive majority, have total power, so I would say

:33:14.:33:17.

even though the headlines are saying huge majorities are inevitable,

:33:18.:33:20.

if young people are looking for a reason to try and make any

:33:21.:33:22.

kind of a difference, then at the very least they might be

:33:23.:33:25.

interested in seeing that majority, that total power, that sort

:33:26.:33:28.

of elected dictatorship, as Lord Hailsham once

:33:29.:33:30.

described it, is minimised. Here we are, here you are,

:33:31.:33:39.

and why should young They know, they have

:33:40.:33:41.

made up their minds, they understand politics,

:33:42.:33:44.

they understand the system, they don't necessarily want

:33:45.:33:46.

you to tell them what to do? You invited me on the programme,

:33:47.:33:52.

I didn't ring up to ask. But you have been

:33:53.:33:55.

tweeting like crazy. Yes, well, you have been

:33:56.:33:58.

reading my tweets and responding. So here you are, Armando Ianucci,

:33:59.:34:00.

who is an Italian Scot, who lives near London,

:34:01.:34:04.

who plies his trade sometimes across the Atlantic,

:34:05.:34:06.

what kind of Britain I want to live in a Britain that has

:34:07.:34:08.

a fully functioning democracy. I have been writing for some time

:34:09.:34:13.

about how people are frustrated by - I mean we now have a system,

:34:14.:34:16.

we still have a system where by in the last election,

:34:17.:34:19.

37% of the people who voted, voted And yet they gain a majority,

:34:20.:34:23.

a working majority of, Listening to when Theresa May

:34:24.:34:30.

announced the election, and said she was announcing it

:34:31.:34:33.

because Parliament couldn't agree Now that sounded to me like how

:34:34.:34:36.

a proper functioning demock should work, and the fact

:34:37.:34:45.

she could casually announce that as a flaw in the system,

:34:46.:34:55.

that needs to be corrected, and ask for a mandate that

:34:56.:34:58.

allows her to get whatever she wants, without opposition,

:34:59.:35:03.

I find a worrying trend. Do you see a possibility

:35:04.:35:10.

of a satirical episode in that? Well, let's see how it plays out

:35:11.:35:15.

in front of us in reality first. So are you ready to go back

:35:16.:35:20.

into television satire? I just want to get this election

:35:21.:35:24.

out of the way first. Well, I'm now joined

:35:25.:35:30.

by Shakira Martin, who just yesterday won the election to become

:35:31.:35:35.

the new President of O raise revenue so would rely on an

:35:36.:35:42.

old friend of the Treasury, called fiscal drag, what that means is do

:35:43.:35:44.

you raise the threshold at which people pay hiring tax and that means

:35:45.:35:47.

more people would pay that 40% higher tax rate.

:35:48.:35:48.

Thank you. Congratulations. Thank you very

:35:49.:35:50.

much. Let us deal with national politics. Armando Ianucci says

:35:51.:35:51.

politicianings are obsessed with older people, that is the votes they

:35:52.:35:55.

are trying to court. Let us take something like the triple lock on

:35:56.:36:00.

pensions which Jeremy Corbyn is wedded to, more so than the Tory,

:36:01.:36:05.

the triple lock on pensions guarantees them 2.5% increase a

:36:06.:36:11.

year, why not campaign to take that away from pensioner, and use it for

:36:12.:36:19.

increasing apprenticeship wages, reducing tuition fees, making

:36:20.:36:22.

affordable rents for young people, why not take that and say don't

:36:23.:36:27.

spend it there, spend it here? So I think there is a few thing,

:36:28.:36:31.

pensioners go out and vote it is a guaranteed vote, so when elections

:36:32.:36:34.

are happening, they are guaranteed to come out so they need to have a

:36:35.:36:39.

promise, to the older generation, and that is through pension. That is

:36:40.:36:44.

a kind of chicken and egg, because actually, they pander to them, you

:36:45.:36:48.

could say, because they come out and vote, but if young people voted they

:36:49.:36:53.

might pander to you. There is a few things, it is about making politics

:36:54.:36:56.

engagele and relatable to young people. Many young people students I

:36:57.:37:02.

speak to they find politics unrelatable when they see

:37:03.:37:06.

politicians speaking they don't look like them, they don't sound like

:37:07.:37:11.

them, they don't see how the link is related to their every day life.

:37:12.:37:17.

They are disenfranchised in politics. Do they think that because

:37:18.:37:23.

of the way politics are conducted on student campuses because it is

:37:24.:37:29.

narrow and niche and things like trans issue, no platforming,

:37:30.:37:33.

cultural appropriation, that is, it I would say it doesn't Brook broad

:37:34.:37:36.

argument, it looks like, you know, you can't afford to argue with this

:37:37.:37:41.

or you will be struck down. I think it is more simple. Before we can get

:37:42.:37:45.

young people to understand the importance of freedom of speech, we

:37:46.:37:49.

need to get them to understand the importance of shaping their

:37:50.:37:52.

generation and the society they would like to live in, and the

:37:53.:37:58.

importance of you know, them exercising their democratic right by

:37:59.:38:01.

voting and that is the way in which they can make change. But, do you

:38:02.:38:06.

think that young people, particularly people on campus who

:38:07.:38:11.

need to be more thick skinned about people holding different views, so

:38:12.:38:15.

someone like Germaine Greer should be invited to universities. I

:38:16.:38:19.

believe we should encourage healthy debate, and a place for university

:38:20.:38:23.

should be a place for people to learn, as the NUS is supporting

:38:24.:38:29.

students unions in doing so. Is there too much on, in you know,

:38:30.:38:34.

colleges and in university, too much intolerance to views that don't

:38:35.:38:37.

support your own? I think that there is is a need for some healthy

:38:38.:38:42.

discussion, and we need to promote the importance of bringing people

:38:43.:38:47.

together, to have healthy debate and respecting differences, and freedom

:38:48.:38:51.

of speech but coming up with solutions together to be able to

:38:52.:38:54.

make change. You are President-elect of one of the biggest trade unions

:38:55.:38:58.

in this country, I would think that you should be the heart of this

:38:59.:39:02.

election, your policies should be something that politicians court,

:39:03.:39:06.

need to talk to you about things so for example, you know we hear that

:39:07.:39:10.

on tuition fee, tuition fees are going to be increased, there won't

:39:11.:39:14.

be a commensurate increase in standards but on the question of

:39:15.:39:18.

tuition fees where is your big platform that you as leader,

:39:19.:39:22.

President-elect of a union will take out and make politicians listen to

:39:23.:39:26.

you? So it is about getting young people to get the argument first and

:39:27.:39:30.

understand the importance of free education, I think there is a lot of

:39:31.:39:34.

young people in colleges who will be going on to university or sixth form

:39:35.:39:37.

who don't understand the argument, who don't know when they are making

:39:38.:39:41.

choices about universities that is different values with the proposal

:39:42.:39:46.

of the bill and I am proud of the work that my current Vice President

:39:47.:39:52.

has done, in separating the links between raising tuition fees and

:39:53.:39:55.

quality, we think that students should be entitled to high quality

:39:56.:39:59.

but not at the detriment of the you can afford it or not. They are not

:40:00.:40:05.

registered to vote. Isn't it your job make them do that? It is

:40:06.:40:10.

definitely our job to go out there and represent them nationally as a

:40:11.:40:14.

national union of student, it is something we have to do

:40:15.:40:18.

collectively. We have to work with communities and organisation, giving

:40:19.:40:21.

political education and citizenship education to let young people

:40:22.:40:25.

understand the importance of voting, and how that influences and shapes a

:40:26.:40:32.

their future. Just one front-page, the EU signal

:40:33.:40:39.

of united Ireland Stokes fears for post-Brexit UK. European leaders are

:40:40.:40:46.

recognising, confirming that Northern Ireland would rejoin the

:40:47.:40:50.

block after Brexit in the event of a vote for Irish reunification. That

:40:51.:40:51.

is it for tonight. We end with news of the death

:40:52.:40:54.

at the age of 86 of Leo Baxendale, the legendary cartoonist

:40:55.:40:58.

from the Beano, who, back in the 1950s, originally

:40:59.:41:00.

created Minnie the Minx, Little Plum, and, most enduringly,

:41:01.:41:02.

The Bash Street Kids. Here they are at the height

:41:03.:41:04.

of their politically incorrect fame.

:41:05.:41:08.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark, as the government is made to publish its air pollution report. Plus Trump's first 100 days, pay as you drive, Armando Ianucci and getting young people to vote.


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