19/05/2017 Newsnight


19/05/2017

The stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark, including fresh Trump Russia revelations. Plus Labour's shadow defence secretary, and Rachel Nickell's son speaks.


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Transcript


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President Trump takes off on his first foreign tour,

:00:00.:00:09.

but there's no chance of leaving his troubles, and his

:00:10.:00:11.

If there is evidence is mounting that there might have been efforts

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to obstruct justice that would be a parallel back to Nixon and wouldn't

:00:27.:00:28.

look good for the president. Tonight, as fresh revelations

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about Russia and the man he sacked as FBI boss -

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who he apparently told the Russians was a "nutjob" -

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engulf the Trump White House, we ask whether he can

:00:36.:00:38.

keep his presidency on the road. Jeremy Corybn's right hand man today

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made the bold claim that Labour We ask the Shadow Defence Secretary

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what that would mean The little boy who witnessed

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the horrific murder of his mother Rachel Nickell 25 years ago

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tells his story of the trauma he suffered, and the impact

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of relentless press intrusion. All of a sudden we saw this man

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lunging forward with a black bag over his shoulder, and then

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everything happened. In a matter of seconds I was grabbed, thrown to the

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floor, my face dragged across the mud. Seconds later my mother

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collapsed next to me. And Newsnight's own battle bus

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ventures to the parts of the country You don't get much of a buzz around

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here. That's why we are here! This evening, Donald Trump left

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Washington for this first Eight days away, visiting five

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countries, including Often an outing on the global stage

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is an opportunity to draw the heat from domestic travails,

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but in Trump's case there's no chance of a let-up back at base,

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in a week where it has felt that perhaps the tectonic plates shifted

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definitively in the ever-developing scandal over Trump's dealings

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with the Russians, and his Tonight, two separate stories

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which threaten fresh Our diplomatic editor

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Mark Urban is here. No sooner has the President's

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playing taken off than two new bombshells were dropped by the

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Washington Post and the New York Times. The Washington post saying

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that the FBI investigation into possible collusion with Russia in

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the election period was gathering pace and had a new person of

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interest who was a serving member of the White House staff. People are

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speculating on Twitter, some of them quite informed reporters, that that

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is none other than Jared Kushner the son-in-law of the president. We

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don't know that but that is the speculation. The New York Times

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story saying they have a minute, a written record, of that meeting with

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the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov in which President Trump is

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quoted as saying that Comey the director of the FBI was a "nut job",

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that he was putting him under pressure over Russia and now that is

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taken care of. That does feed those who say this is obstruction of

:03:24.:03:27.

justice in the case they are trying to make. You wonder if Trump knows

:03:28.:03:30.

that minutes have been taken. You could say there is a buy the

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book answer and people understand the processes involved if this is

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going to come to a formal, legal charge, if it's going to get

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impeachment. With impeachment the house of representatives have to

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vote for it and a lot of the calculation has been, until the

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mid-term elections in late 2018, that's not even a possibility

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because the Republicans control the house of representatives. Would they

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really vote for impeachment. But the pace of the these last two weeks is

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causing some people to reassess, and ask if real, hard evidence is

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produced by the FBI, or the other investigations on the Hill will

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support crumble, and will this become more and more like that

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defining presidential scandal, Watergate.

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All the President's men made bringing down Richard Nixon seem

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like the most romantic of adventures. Particularly if you're a

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journalist. Now, many in Washington see the parallels, talk breathlessly

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of impeachment, as they watch Donald Trump's legal difficulties multiply.

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If there is evidence is mounting that there might have been efforts

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to obstruct justice, that would be a parallel back to Nixon and would not

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look good for the president. The other thing that I would look for

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whether the special counsel is going to bring charges. If we know there

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are ongoing criminal investigation is coming out of this

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counterintelligence investigation also going on, that's not typical.

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Usually you don't see a lot of prosecutions coming out of a

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counterintelligence investigation. Depending on who is implicated, that

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might spell trouble. Earlier this week it emerged the president had

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briefed the Russian Foreign Minister with highly sensitive intelligence.

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Bennett leaked that the FBI director sacked Pender memo pressuring to

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drop investigations and a fire adviser Mike Flynn. Then on

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Wednesday night the Justice Department had appointed a special

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counsel to investigate Trump's ties to Russia, prompting claims of a

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witchhunt. No president of the United States wants a special

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counsel appointed. In the case of President Clinton where he had an

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independent counsel, but led to Whitewater and Monica Lewinsky. With

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Ronald Reagan we had the arms for hostages situation that tarnished

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the end of his term. No president wants a special counsel appointed,

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the question is was there an underlying crime in Mr Trump's case.

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And so the Watergate analogies begin. The special counsel claims of

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obstruction of justice, and Trump's political enemies talking in

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impeachment. Key to the drama of Watergate was the character of Deep

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Throat, reputedly a deputy director at the FBI who guided reporters that

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underground assignations towards their quarry, the president. Well,

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that's one of the similarities with today's situation, although now you

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could say there are differences. There are so many Deep Throats and

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so many reporters pursuing Trump, but according to your prejudice you

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could say that's a sign of the resistance at work, or of a deep

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conservative establishment trying to thwart his programme of radical

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change. We've seen the deep state working round-the-clock... The

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President's backers paint what's happening as the revenge of a deep

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state against a president elected on a platform of radical change. You

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have instance after instance where it is not coincidence, it's fact

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that people are leaking classified information to try to harm the Trump

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administration. You can have a political agenda, just put your name

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in front of it and leaked it with your name attached and get arrested

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for its. The president, like Nixon, likes to likes to refer to a

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witchhunt, but how far is it now from impeachment? The Case against

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Trump of collusion or obstruction of justice isn't yet proven, but

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ultimately the judgment of his party is critical, and for that you have

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to look to Congress and count the votes. Evidence against him doesn't

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have to meet the standards to prosecute him in a court. A bit of

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fudge room there and it depends on the support he has. The House would

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have to have to vote to impeach, the Senate would have to vote to remove

:08:37.:08:41.

him, and those are really political issues and will depend on the amount

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of support that he has. President Nixon chose to resign before it came

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to an actual impeachment, but when he knew his party was slipping away.

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Trump may not go so easily, but all eyes will now be on the party and

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whether support starts to crumble. Joining us from Washington

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is journalist James Fallows, who started his career covering

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Nixon's fall in Watergate and went on to become chief speech writer

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to President Carter. He's now the national

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correspondent for The Atlantic. Good evening. First of all let's

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deal with the New York Times story that Trump told the Russians that

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Komi was, that the removal of pain me ended the pressure on him and he

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went on to call him a "nut job" -- the removal of Comey ended the

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pressure on him. The suspicion in most cases like this is you find

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some subtle clues of obstruction of justice and the president doing

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things because they're some three Domino effect that will reduce

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pressure on him. According to these reports, Trump is out right in

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saying this was the reason he got rid of FBI director Comey. In any

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normal political environment this would be serious trouble for a

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president. You say in any normal political environment, so you are

:10:07.:10:10.

not sure? Yes and the commentary you are having was right that there are

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legal enquiries under way but fundamentally this is a political

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decision. So far a major difference between this episode and Watergate,

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apart from the speed with which things are unfolding, is back during

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Watergate there were a number of members of the Republican party who

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said, wait a minute, what principles are being violated, what about the

:10:33.:10:36.

constitution. So far there has been some hand-wringing and concern from

:10:37.:10:40.

members of the Republican party but none of them have actually voted for

:10:41.:10:44.

investigations, etc. Let's turn to the Washington Post, that someone

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close to the president, speculation is that it is Jared Kushner, is now

:10:52.:10:55.

a significant person of interest in the enquiry into links between

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Russia and the Trump campaign. Is this just another small step king of

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the fire or is it important? This reminds me of the actual Watergate

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in that news unfolded everyday and you didn't know it would lead. There

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are two uncertainties, one is what person of interest means, the other

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is whether we are talking about Jared Kushner, Steve Bannon,

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somebody close to the president and still on his active-duty service. It

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could be a week from now we are looking at this as the domino which

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moved things, it could be that some other thing will have occupied our

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attention. It is potentially interesting. So these stories, both

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of them came out as soon as Trump was wheels up leaving for a foreign

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trip. It might suggest that the papers are engaged in some kind of

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warfare with the president, and it's not so much the deep state but the

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media generally is out to get him. What do you think about that? My

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guess is that if either of these publications had had the material

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ready to go three hours earlier, they would have used it then. You

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could say this is the deadline for a daily paper but it is 24 hour news

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cycle now. I think it's when they had the facts they went with it as

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soon as they could. Does that suggest that even though when he's

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away there may be more dripping out in the next couple of weeks? He's

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away now for nine days. How embarrassing will this be to him

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abroad, or not so? It is traditionally true that

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oversees presidents look stronger but it is hard to see how that can

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work with Donald Trump, he has not experienced internationally and he

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is going to tricky places, Saudi Arabia and Israel and whenever

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things get dicey, his impulse has been to lash out through Twitter or

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whatever else and maybe he is under tighter discipline when on Air Force

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one but there is wi-fi on that! I think that the momentum of these

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revelations is likely to continue while he is overseas. Thank you very

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much. Throughout the election,

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Newsnight is embedding in the Cumbrian constituency

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of Barrow-in-Furness, to capture in close-up

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how the campaign looks from the perspective

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of one key marginal seat. Barrow's Labour majority of 800,

:13:20.:13:23.

a Ukip vote of 11% in 2015, and a 60% vote for Brexit,

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all make it high on John Woodcock, whilst campaigning

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under a Labour ticket, is one of the party's most outspoken

:13:30.:13:35.

critics of its leader, This week, our film-maker

:13:36.:13:37.

Nick Blakemore spent time We just hear it on the doorstep,

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time and again, people saying: "we've always been Labour,

:13:43.:13:52.

but we're worried about you nationally,

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and we don't know what to do". The national election

:13:56.:14:01.

is going to be decided elsewhere, and it's going to be decided

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in favour of another They have called it because they

:14:05.:14:06.

know they're going to win. And, I mean, James,

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what is your sense of going out There's maybe an 80-90% chance that

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they're sticking with us, but there's that remaining 10% that

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either aren't sure or they are I feel it is not as high

:14:23.:14:24.

as 80 or 90%, actually. Hello, I'm Simon Fell,

:14:25.:14:33.

the Conservative candidate. You kind of, just picture

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Theresa May of a morning, setting off to go to Parliament

:14:39.:14:41.

on the A590, she'd never get there. She would never get

:14:42.:14:44.

there, would she? And something would be done

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about it, because it'd And this is what, I think,

:14:47.:14:48.

is very frustrating for everybody. It's not to you or anybody else,

:14:49.:14:53.

but we always feel that this part of the country is,

:14:54.:14:57.

just get everything palmed off, the dirty work, you know,

:14:58.:15:00.

the construction, just A Tory nodding dog

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won't be there for you. A Tory nodding dog won't be

:15:04.:15:17.

there for you when it matters. My record shows I've

:15:18.:15:21.

always put you first. Please re-elect me

:15:22.:15:24.

on the 8th of June. OK, one more time,

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and I may just nail it. Are you campaigning

:15:30.:15:32.

on the manifesto? So, any discussion of Labour's

:15:33.:15:34.

manifesto is actually slightly artificial,

:15:35.:15:37.

because it can show But when people understand,

:15:38.:15:40.

actually, that the Tories are going to win nationally,

:15:41.:15:50.

they view it in a different light. It's her policies on

:15:51.:16:00.

education I don't like. I don't like the way she is putting

:16:01.:16:03.

pressure on the kids, Justine Greening the Education

:16:04.:16:06.

Secretary, you know, she is a comprehensive girl,

:16:07.:16:13.

this is the job she's I think now we are going

:16:14.:16:16.

to see a bit of a shift We had in Cameron the heir to Blair,

:16:17.:16:20.

and we now have in Theresa May someone who is recognised as a tough

:16:21.:16:25.

leader, who will buckle down Her brand of Conservativism

:16:26.:16:29.

is really different. She wants to turn us

:16:30.:16:36.

into the workers' party, What makes you qualified

:16:37.:16:38.

to represent Barrow-in-Furness So you don't live

:16:39.:16:46.

in the constituency? I've actually put a bet

:16:47.:16:54.

with a punter, who is going to get sacked first, Corbyn

:16:55.:17:00.

or Woodcock by Corbyn? I think Nigel Farage is the most

:17:01.:17:02.

honest man I've seen Prior to that, well,

:17:03.:17:08.

Enoch Powell, arguably. He was not afraid to hold his line,

:17:09.:17:16.

even though the rest of the world We've got the Secretary of State

:17:17.:17:20.

with us to discuss issues on the rail station,

:17:21.:17:35.

but also the A590 and the A595. I've been up looking

:17:36.:17:40.

at roads all across Cumbria, both up in Copeland and down

:17:41.:17:42.

here in Barrow, and the number of things that need doing,

:17:43.:17:45.

including the A590, probably can't spend the next ten years

:17:46.:17:48.

going through a farmyard. In Barrow, there are a higher

:17:49.:17:51.

than average proportion of people on disability living allowance,

:17:52.:17:59.

so living with disabilities, and they feel that under

:18:00.:18:01.

a Conservative government they have We don't want to do anything

:18:02.:18:04.

else but support those people with disabilities

:18:05.:18:10.

who need that support. But it is reasonable that

:18:11.:18:14.

when people receive a benefit, that they should have been properly

:18:15.:18:16.

assessed as to whether they are the right people

:18:17.:18:19.

to receive that benefit. Simon, it's been almost 25

:18:20.:18:23.

years since there's been Will anybody from the Shadow

:18:24.:18:25.

Cabinet be coming to your Well, I would be

:18:26.:18:31.

delighted if they did! One thing that I know is I've had

:18:32.:18:36.

really good support from Cat Smith, who is a valiant Shadow Cabinet

:18:37.:18:42.

member for younger people. Right, first of all I'd

:18:43.:18:48.

like to thank you for attending. It's a pretty miserable

:18:49.:18:56.

night out there. To my left, far left, I have Andy

:18:57.:19:00.

from London and John Woodcock. John Woodcock, who is

:19:01.:19:09.

the Parliamentary candidate Because there are no

:19:10.:19:13.

members of Parliament, Anyway, sorry, don't

:19:14.:19:22.

let me interrupt you! This is a community coming together

:19:23.:19:30.

to show that we want And through all of the national

:19:31.:19:33.

staff, who is going to be Prime Minister, this

:19:34.:19:37.

is what politics is about. I would have been happy if this

:19:38.:19:41.

general election had been called in 2020,

:19:42.:19:43.

as was planned. But now it's here, I'm sure

:19:44.:19:46.

that we are going to make the issue of the post office central

:19:47.:19:50.

to this campaign. I was actually put in Parliament

:19:51.:19:57.

to do right by my constituents, We can't pretend to be

:19:58.:20:01.

something we're not, But what's important

:20:02.:20:07.

is that there are these Labour voices who'll stand up

:20:08.:20:11.

for their communities. There are five candidates standing

:20:12.:20:14.

for election in Barrow-in-Furness. Well, Barrow-in-Furness is a key

:20:15.:20:19.

centre for defence jobs, and we're going now to examine

:20:20.:20:29.

the Labour Party's position This week their manifesto launch

:20:30.:20:31.

boosted Labour's poll ratings to the highest so far

:20:32.:20:36.

in the campaign. But defence - and in particular

:20:37.:20:39.

their position on Trident - has been an area of real tension

:20:40.:20:43.

within the party under Nia Griffith is the Shadow Defence

:20:44.:20:45.

Secretary and she joins me now. Good evening. That is talk about

:20:46.:20:58.

this confusion over Trident. There was a line in the leaked draft

:20:59.:21:03.

manifesto, any Prime Minister should be extremely cautious about ordering

:21:04.:21:07.

the use of weapons of mass destruction, that disappeared from

:21:08.:21:11.

the official version. It is clear in the draft version and the final

:21:12.:21:15.

version that we are fully committed to having a Trident nuclear

:21:16.:21:18.

deterrent and it is not appropriate to go into detail about how and when

:21:19.:21:23.

you might use that in the manifesto. We have it, that's deterrent is

:21:24.:21:28.

there to be used. It is there to be used. It is going to be part of a

:21:29.:21:34.

strategic defence review? Is that a good idea? When we have a review

:21:35.:21:41.

coming into government, it is about how we would spend money and what we

:21:42.:21:45.

would do and in what order, what sort of timetable. It is not about

:21:46.:21:51.

questioning whether we would have a Trident nuclear deterrent because we

:21:52.:21:56.

settle that last year. Emily Thornberry tonight suggests that it

:21:57.:21:58.

was possible that it could be scrapped as part of the defence

:21:59.:22:03.

review. And indeed, Jeremy Corbyn says that it is part of the

:22:04.:22:08.

strategic defence, we know his own position and it is different from

:22:09.:22:12.

the Labour Party's. In a sense, Trident is not secure. In all

:22:13.:22:18.

respect, Emily is not the Shadow Defence Secretary, I am. We had a

:22:19.:22:23.

long meeting on Thursday to agree the manifesto as nobody raised the

:22:24.:22:27.

issue of removing Trident from the manifesto. That was agreed last year

:22:28.:22:34.

as part of our defence review that we had last year and is part of the

:22:35.:22:38.

national policy... Emily Thornberry said we're going to have a proper

:22:39.:22:42.

review and there is no point in reviewing Trident if you are

:22:43.:22:46.

absolutely committed to it? We are. Emily Thornberry is wrong. Indeed.

:22:47.:22:52.

Last year we looked at this at the national policy forum and it was

:22:53.:22:56.

decided to keep the nuclear deterrent and that was reaffirmed...

:22:57.:23:03.

Three weeks from the general election, the Shadow Defence

:23:04.:23:06.

Secretary says there is no chance will not be with us, it is a firm

:23:07.:23:13.

commitment. The Shadow foreign secretary says everything is up for

:23:14.:23:16.

grabs, it is possible it could be scrapped. We don't know your policy?

:23:17.:23:23.

I am very clear because it has been reaffirmed every year, we made a

:23:24.:23:29.

commitment in 2007 to renew the Trident deterrent and that is our

:23:30.:23:33.

position and commitment to our foreign allies and our industrial

:23:34.:23:37.

workforce and that has been reaffirmed year after year at Labour

:23:38.:23:41.

Party Conference and again on Thursday, with the manifesto

:23:42.:23:44.

meeting, it was fully affirmed by the room. This is a very serious

:23:45.:23:50.

time, not some count of opposition conversation. 18 months from the

:23:51.:23:57.

election. There is an election in three weeks, Jeremy Corbyn could be

:23:58.:24:02.

the Prime Minister, we will have a strategic review, Emily Thornberry

:24:03.:24:05.

says everything is up for grabs and it could be Trident and the Shadow

:24:06.:24:11.

Defence Secretary does not say that. You were not even at the manifesto

:24:12.:24:16.

launch. I was at the meeting last Thursday, when we were looking at

:24:17.:24:20.

the detail of this programme. It was a money not listening? Not one query

:24:21.:24:27.

was raised about Trident. On The Andrew Marr Show this month, Jeremy

:24:28.:24:33.

Corbyn was categoric, there will be no first use of nuclear weapons. It

:24:34.:24:39.

is not a deterrent? It is important to have the deterrent and that you

:24:40.:24:43.

are prepared to use it. You will do everything else before, you have a

:24:44.:24:50.

dramatic means and conventional military means, nobody in any

:24:51.:24:54.

circumstance would want to use that as your first line of attack. Nobody

:24:55.:25:00.

is suggesting somebody is going to fire a missile was fired the most

:25:01.:25:04.

incredible thought but what we are seeing is Jeremy Corbyn said there

:25:05.:25:09.

would be no first use, it might as well be a very expensive white

:25:10.:25:14.

elephant. Do you believe you have to be prepared ultimately for first use

:25:15.:25:18.

if you have nuclear weapons? You have to be prepared, that might be

:25:19.:25:22.

the circumstance you find yourself in in this very uncertain world and

:25:23.:25:27.

that is why it is essential we keep that nuclear deterrant but nobody

:25:28.:25:30.

would put that as the first item on the agenda, what we need to do is

:25:31.:25:35.

make sure that we actually get in quickly to deal with problems so

:25:36.:25:39.

they do not escalate. Let us turn to Nato. There is a manifesto

:25:40.:25:44.

commitment, the same Nato that Jeremy Corbyn called a danger to

:25:45.:25:47.

world peace and world security? We are fully committed to Nato, it is

:25:48.:25:53.

the cornerstone of our defence policy and even more important by

:25:54.:25:58.

coming out of the European Union that we reaffirm that policy and

:25:59.:26:01.

that we are committed to that 2% spending commitment. Let us say that

:26:02.:26:09.

Nato is called upon, Russia invades Estonia, for example, Britain is

:26:10.:26:14.

called upon as a member to put military equipment and personnel in

:26:15.:26:19.

to resolve that situation. Jeremy Corbyn seems to suggest that we

:26:20.:26:25.

would not necessarily in certain circumstances come to the aid of a

:26:26.:26:30.

Nato member militarily? We are fully signed up to the Nato treaty, which

:26:31.:26:35.

says we would put in that... He is wrong? Of course we all go through

:26:36.:26:41.

the other processes, also in that treaty, of diplomatic means first

:26:42.:26:46.

but ultimately, you have to back up your defence... If what we're saying

:26:47.:26:56.

is you say that if you asked militarily to support Estonia, there

:26:57.:26:59.

will be no question, Jeremy Corbyn does not say that, I will put it to

:27:00.:27:04.

you, the Tories say the Labour Party is in chaos, three weeks from the

:27:05.:27:08.

election, there is nothing graver than defence policy, we do not know

:27:09.:27:12.

if there will be first use of nuclear weapons and if Britain could

:27:13.:27:17.

come to the end -- aid of another Nato country. We are fully signed up

:27:18.:27:21.

to all of our Nato commitments and that means that if the threat was of

:27:22.:27:25.

that nature, we would put in that military force and we support the

:27:26.:27:29.

enhanced progress that is in Estonia already. Thank you.

:27:30.:27:32.

It's 25 years since a young mother, Rachell Nickell, was stabbed

:27:33.:27:35.

repeatedly and killed on Wimbledon Common in London.

:27:36.:27:37.

What made the murder even more shocking was that it was witnessed

:27:38.:27:40.

That put him in potential danger from the killer

:27:41.:27:44.

The combination of the need to protect Alex's identity

:27:45.:27:48.

and the intense, shocking media intrusion led his father, Andre,

:27:49.:27:51.

to take him to rural France and then to Spain to start a new life.

:27:52.:27:56.

Now, Alex Hanscombe has written a book which contains

:27:57.:27:58.

extraordinarily vivid detail of that day and tells the traumatic

:27:59.:28:00.

But most of all, Letting Go: A True Story of Murder,

:28:01.:28:07.

Loss and Survivial is a tribute to his mother, Rachel.

:28:08.:28:34.

Waving goodbye to my father as he drove off in his

:28:35.:28:41.

I remember walking hand-in-hand with my mother

:28:42.:28:47.

And then, as we ventured deeper into the trees, there was a section

:28:48.:28:57.

All of a sudden, we both sensed that there was something in the air

:28:58.:29:06.

so we both turned our heads to the right quickly

:29:07.:29:08.

and all of a sudden we saw this man lunging forward with a black bag

:29:09.:29:12.

In a matter of seconds, I was grabbed, thrown to the floor,

:29:13.:29:20.

my face dragged across the mud, and seconds later my mother

:29:21.:29:22.

And then I saw him disappear as I was getting myself up

:29:23.:29:28.

from the floor, still, because it all happened so quickly.

:29:29.:29:31.

And then he just disappeared into the distance,

:29:32.:29:33.

And I stood over my mother and I said, Mummy, please get up.

:29:34.:29:40.

So I was thinking, why doesn't she move?

:29:41.:29:44.

And then I said it again, Mummy, please get up.

:29:45.:29:50.

And then it hit me right at that moment.

:29:51.:29:54.

I understood, I made that connection that she was gone

:29:55.:29:56.

You feel that very physically in your heart.

:29:57.:30:05.

For me, more than anything that we may have done together,

:30:06.:30:11.

what she looked like, what she smelt like, any of these

:30:12.:30:16.

things is the feeling of being loved and of loving in return.

:30:17.:30:20.

That is something that will always be with me.

:30:21.:30:23.

And regardless of me losing her under these circumstances

:30:24.:30:26.

at such a young age, I have always felt so privileged

:30:27.:30:29.

compared to so many others, who have never had that experience

:30:30.:30:33.

of being loved and of loving in return.

:30:34.:30:37.

How did your father explain your mother's death to you?

:30:38.:30:42.

The fact that I was there, I already understood it all in my mind.

:30:43.:30:47.

There wasn't much for my father to say.

:30:48.:30:50.

But even so, when he came to collect me at the hospital,

:30:51.:30:54.

as he held me in his arms, he said, your mother is gone

:30:55.:30:57.

But we are going to continue on together.

:30:58.:31:05.

One of the most intense moments, when you went to the common,

:31:06.:31:08.

supposedly privately, with your father, and by this stage

:31:09.:31:10.

Yes, all the reporters that were on the other side of the fence

:31:11.:31:18.

So they all came jumping over the fence.

:31:19.:31:22.

My father had to cover my face with a baseball cap.

:31:23.:31:26.

We had to run off as we were jostled from both sides and the detectives

:31:27.:31:30.

tried to stop them from coming and when we reached the spot,

:31:31.:31:34.

he put me on the ground and we left the rose on the spot.

:31:35.:31:40.

And for several minutes I stood watching my father

:31:41.:31:43.

Meanwhile, my eyes were dry and I was just standing

:31:44.:31:49.

Why do you think the press were so desperate to get you?

:31:50.:31:57.

The archetype of a young child with his mother and him

:31:58.:32:01.

being there while his mother was attacked and witnessing

:32:02.:32:05.

all of that, I think there were so many elements that

:32:06.:32:09.

The press is a business, we like to think the press as some

:32:10.:32:24.

But the press is a private-run business with their own agenda.

:32:25.:32:33.

That would serve them as well as selling newspapers.

:32:34.:32:55.

So then your father, out of the blue, gets a call to say

:32:56.:32:59.

You and me would think it is hard enough to get away with one serious

:33:00.:33:06.

crime yet this person got away with over 100 attacks

:33:07.:33:10.

on over 80 women before he was finally apprehended.

:33:11.:33:15.

Had they been more efficient before, your mother would not be dead

:33:16.:33:18.

and I wonder what you feel about the police's behaviour?

:33:19.:33:21.

What I feel about the police is everyone is going to make mistakes.

:33:22.:33:25.

That is an accepted fact, that is just nature.

:33:26.:33:29.

But when you have a system where people aren't obliged to be

:33:30.:33:32.

accountable to take responsibility for their actions,

:33:33.:33:36.

that is when you create dark corridors and you attract a certain

:33:37.:33:39.

person to that position, which is more prone to incompetence,

:33:40.:33:43.

Because now what we have is the principal of because the police

:33:44.:33:49.

are well-intentioned, they shouldn't be held accountable.

:33:50.:33:53.

In the book you have made it clear that you forgive Robert Napper.

:33:54.:33:57.

Once you have been through a difficult situation,

:33:58.:34:01.

it makes no sense to keep feeling pain, feeling discomfort every time

:34:02.:34:04.

So without condoning that person's actions,

:34:05.:34:13.

that person's behaviour, you forgive that person for yourself

:34:14.:34:16.

so you can let go of that negative baggage that you accumulate

:34:17.:34:19.

Do you think she would think you had turned out well?

:34:20.:34:30.

I know that she knows that I have turned out well.

:34:31.:34:33.

Alex Hanscombe, thank you very much indeed.

:34:34.:34:39.

It wouldn't be a general election campaign without a few

:34:40.:34:41.

Reporters dressed as chickens pursuing party leaders,

:34:42.:34:44.

distinguished correspondents playing cards and eating curry

:34:45.:34:46.

We do things rather differently here on Newsnight,

:34:47.:34:50.

with our blackboards and uplifting graphs.

:34:51.:34:53.

Tonight, we unveil our latest Reithian feature,

:34:54.:34:56.

which basically involves sending an old double-decker bus to parts

:34:57.:34:58.

of the country that never see a real battlebus,

:34:59.:35:01.

or indeed much of the campaign at all.

:35:02.:35:04.

What's worse, the unfortunate souls of these under-covered seats,

:35:05.:35:08.

who are normally spared politics, also had to put up

:35:09.:35:11.

Go out and bring us back a complete breakdown.

:35:12.:35:24.

And that's just what we did with a 1966 Routemaster double-decker.

:35:25.:35:30.

She's already got more than 2 million miles on the clock.

:35:31.:35:34.

We're rolling this baby into some of the safest or most overlooked

:35:35.:35:37.

Ones that rarely get a visit from the party leaders

:35:38.:35:42.

It's a special feature we're calling "Battle Busted".

:35:43.:35:50.

We're bringing the Newsnight bus to the rolling constituency

:35:51.:35:53.

It is one of the most rural and isolated parts of the country.

:35:54.:36:00.

It used to be a safe Liberal stronghold but the Conservatives

:36:01.:36:02.

have held it since 2010, and they're expected to retain it.

:36:03.:36:07.

It's the only seat in Wales that Labour has never won.

:36:08.:36:12.

I'm on a creaking old vehicle that we're using to explore

:36:13.:36:17.

But enough about the programme, what do you think of my bus?

:36:18.:36:28.

I was about to tick you off for rocking the old crate around,

:36:29.:36:47.

but now that it's you, who better to show me around this

:36:48.:36:50.

These streets can tell a few stories.

:36:51.:36:57.

When he was a Lib Dem MP here, Lembit Opik lived in the fast lane.

:36:58.:37:04.

Dating a weather girl and then a pop star.

:37:05.:37:06.

He was seldom out of the limelight, but perhaps he attracted too many

:37:07.:37:09.

headlines for the locals, because he lost in 2010.

:37:10.:37:13.

Tell us a bit about it, for people who have not been lucky

:37:14.:37:16.

enough to see this lovely green part of the Earth.

:37:17.:37:19.

It is a huge constituency, about 70 miles by 70 miles.

:37:20.:37:21.

Very few people here, more sheep than people,

:37:22.:37:23.

And do you think that your former constituents will be

:37:24.:37:28.

excited to see our bus with its associations,

:37:29.:37:33.

I suppose inevitably, with the metropolis down here?

:37:34.:37:37.

Some constituents will look at it and hope that this means there's

:37:38.:37:40.

finally a robust service from Llanidloes up to Caersws.

:37:41.:37:46.

We have a bit of time, we could take a few.

:37:47.:37:49.

You will need a lot of time and you could probably

:37:50.:37:52.

But in the majority, they are a wily local population.

:37:53.:37:56.

They will look at this London bus and just assume

:37:57.:37:58.

We asked people in the market town of Newtown whether they suffered

:37:59.:38:03.

Well, we don't see an awful lot, that is very true around here.

:38:04.:38:12.

Yes, you feel a little bit left out of things.

:38:13.:38:14.

There isn't much election fever here on the face of it

:38:15.:38:17.

and we wondered if people felt they missed out?

:38:18.:38:21.

I'm not sure whether people are feeling they are missing out.

:38:22.:38:24.

I think people may be feeling that in the middle of Wales,

:38:25.:38:27.

Do you regret that they don't tend to come and see

:38:28.:38:32.

I'm interested in politics, I have been watching television

:38:33.:38:43.

and all that sort of stuff and I never would expect them

:38:44.:38:46.

It was time to get back on the bus and resume a job very much

:38:47.:38:58.

I once spent an entire election campaign in a motorway service

:38:59.:39:17.

But this time, my billet was out in the fresh air of Montgomeryshire.

:39:18.:39:36.

People here vote as they have done for generations.

:39:37.:39:46.

These are young farmers learning to judge livestock.

:39:47.:39:49.

I place the Suffolk ewes in the following order.

:39:50.:39:52.

Before they are judged, in turn, by their elders.

:39:53.:39:58.

There is no lack of appreciation for good speech-making here.

:39:59.:40:04.

As soon as I am 18 I have got the chance to vote and I should

:40:05.:40:08.

We have got our Newsnight double-decker bus.

:40:09.:40:15.

If you heard that Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn was coming to town

:40:16.:40:28.

tomorrow, would you turn out to hear them?

:40:29.:40:30.

I wouldn't turn out to hear them, maybe get a selfie

:40:31.:40:33.

Join us again when we bring all the fun of the campaign

:40:34.:40:38.

to parts of the country that the election doesn't reach.

:40:39.:40:48.

That's all we have time for, have a good weekend.

:40:49.:40:49.

The stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark, including fresh Trump Russia revelations. Plus Labour's shadow defence secretary, and Rachel Nickell's son speaks 25 years after witnessing her murder.


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