Can May Govern? Newsnight


Can May Govern?

Emily Maitlis presents a special programme from Westminster with live guests, discussing the aftershocks from Thursday's election.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to Can May Govern?. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Politics has never looked more lowly job. Tonight as her top aides quit,

:00:10.:00:15.

the PM seems more isolated than ever.

:00:16.:00:18.

Ferociously loyal and always in step, Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy

:00:19.:00:21.

What's protecting Theresa May right now is not the loyalty,

:00:22.:00:27.

the respect or even the fear of her party.

:00:28.:00:29.

It's the fact that they can't see anyone obvious with

:00:30.:00:32.

Nor can they see an obvious process to find that person that doesn't

:00:33.:00:36.

risk plunging the party and the government into

:00:37.:00:38.

There were frustrations in the party.

:00:39.:00:45.

It was about whether or not all of us felt included in her project.

:00:46.:00:48.

Is Europe laughing at us or as confused as we are?

:00:49.:00:51.

Mark Urban speaks to Angela Merkel's right-hand man.

:00:52.:00:55.

We should go into the details as soon as possible.

:00:56.:01:02.

And do we have to define a new direction for Britain now?

:01:03.:01:06.

We speak to Nigel Farage, Simon Schama and Kerry Ann Mendoza.

:01:07.:01:23.

Good evening and Welcome to Westminster.

:01:24.:01:25.

Do not be fooled by the gentle breeze of a summer weekend.

:01:26.:01:32.

Today saw no calm, no respite in the pace of change

:01:33.:01:35.

and power-shifting that gives this place its identity.

:01:36.:01:38.

Senior Conservatives began the day calling for the resignation

:01:39.:01:40.

of Theresa May's joint chiefs of staff.

:01:41.:01:47.

By the afternoon, they got what they wanted.

:01:48.:01:49.

Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill were known for their unwavering loyalty.

:01:50.:01:51.

The PM was accused of relying on them too heavily,

:01:52.:01:54.

closing her eyes to a more collegiate, consensual

:01:55.:01:56.

Yet these chiefs of staff were at the very heart of government.

:01:57.:02:15.

They knew how to shield her from the hostile parts of the job

:02:16.:02:21.

They were not just moral support, they were, Nick Clegg told us,

:02:22.:02:25.

instrumental to practically every decision she took.

:02:26.:02:27.

I asked her not to bring the special advisers

:02:28.:02:29.

with her into the meetings that I used to have with her because I

:02:30.:02:32.

found it all rather disruptive, but I did find that,

:02:33.:02:35.

as a result, I could never get a decision out of her

:02:36.:02:38.

in the meetings because she'd have to go back and I assume test her

:02:39.:02:45.

ideas and test my suggestions with people around her.

:02:46.:02:48.

Nick Timothy offered reason for his resignation by letter,

:02:49.:02:51.

nodding to the high number of Conservative votes on Thursday,

:02:52.:02:57.

but accepting his part too in the disaster that was the social

:02:58.:02:59.

care policy, admitting he should have offered

:03:00.:03:01.

a cap as well as a floor for the cost of it.

:03:02.:03:07.

She was known to rub many in Number 10 up the wrong way.

:03:08.:03:11.

Her erratic behaviour became the stuff of hushed legend.

:03:12.:03:14.

Insiders will tell you of the time she spat at the Chancellor Philip

:03:15.:03:17.

Hammond or the sweary texts she wrote to elected ministers.

:03:18.:03:20.

The party's former Director of Communications didn't

:03:21.:03:26.

Katie Perrier accused them both of creating a dysfunctional

:03:27.:03:31.

and toxic atmosphere in Downing Street.

:03:32.:03:34.

We were going into an 8.30 meeting every morning at Theresa May's

:03:35.:03:37.

office and the atmosphere would be great if the Chief of Staff were not

:03:38.:03:42.

there and terrible if the chief of Staff were there.

:03:43.:03:44.

And so we would be able to speak freely if they weren't around

:03:45.:03:50.

and if they were around, you don't speak.

:03:51.:03:53.

But it was senior Tories who demanded their heads.

:03:54.:03:55.

They wouldn't have gone if they hadn't intended

:03:56.:03:57.

They were meant to be the sacrifice, the front-line casualties

:03:58.:04:03.

protecting their general from further arrows but,

:04:04.:04:06.

whatever the objective, their departure leaves Theresa May

:04:07.:04:09.

A bleeding swimmer in shark-infested waters when the boat sails

:04:10.:04:15.

For a day or two certainly, it gives her breathing space.

:04:16.:04:23.

But Jeremy Corbyn is still waiting in the wings.

:04:24.:04:25.

Our political editor Nick Watt is here.

:04:26.:04:32.

Talk today of a DUP Alliance or coalition. Howard that work-out?

:04:33.:04:42.

Gavin Williamson has been in Northern Ireland today meeting

:04:43.:04:46.

Arlene Foster, the leader of the DUP and other DUP leaders and I am tell

:04:47.:04:50.

down looking at the full range of possibilities from just an informal

:04:51.:04:54.

and are taking all the way through to a fault coalition agreement and I

:04:55.:04:59.

am told what the DUP are looking at is securing welfare benefits, so

:05:00.:05:04.

keep the pension triple lock and preserve universal benefits such as

:05:05.:05:07.

the winter fuel allowance for pensioners. It allows the DUP to say

:05:08.:05:12.

when just acting in the interests of Northern Ireland but are acting in

:05:13.:05:17.

the interests of the whole of the UK. And then it would allow the

:05:18.:05:22.

Tories to remove parts of their manifesto that became so toxic with

:05:23.:05:26.

pensioners. I spoke to one senior source quoting Lynton Crosby, the

:05:27.:05:30.

man who ran the Conservative campaign in the final stages, who

:05:31.:05:35.

would allow the Tories to remove the barnacles from the boat. It sounds

:05:36.:05:38.

like she's preparing to stay but wasn't always that way? It's a

:05:39.:05:43.

feverish atmosphere at the moment and there is uncertainty among

:05:44.:05:46.

Cabinet ministers over the long-term future of the Prime Minister and I

:05:47.:05:52.

am told in this rather feeble atmosphere, serious consideration

:05:53.:05:54.

was given in the early hours of Friday morning as to whether the

:05:55.:05:57.

Prime Minister should resign. I am told by the time of her counting in

:05:58.:06:03.

Maidenhead, and she was in trouble, the Prime Minister was completely

:06:04.:06:08.

devastated. There was even talk of resignation speech was drafted in

:06:09.:06:12.

the early hours of Friday morning, the idea was the primaries to would

:06:13.:06:16.

make a statement later won on Friday. As I understand it, what

:06:17.:06:20.

happened was amid the uncertainty over the result, senior Tory figures

:06:21.:06:24.

said that they should look at how to respond to all outcomes of the

:06:25.:06:29.

election but it's the duty of any Prime Minister to respond to all

:06:30.:06:33.

those various outcomes and remember, for a brief period, there was even

:06:34.:06:38.

talk Jeremy Corbyn might be the largest party but it soon became

:06:39.:06:42.

clear that Theresa May would lead the largest party and, at that

:06:43.:06:48.

point, it was her duty as she later said on Friday, two former

:06:49.:06:51.

Government. Which is why we are looking towards a reshuffle this

:06:52.:06:56.

evening. Yes, we were expecting a full reshuffle earlier on today. As

:06:57.:07:01.

I understand it, it has been described as the last blast

:07:02.:07:05.

reshuffle. Basically reappointing the mainly existing cabinet and the

:07:06.:07:09.

phrase they are saying, alas top last reshuffle until the leadership

:07:10.:07:13.

of the Conservative Party is sorted out. That means either Theresa May

:07:14.:07:18.

does continue when she has a full deal with the DUP or there is a

:07:19.:07:20.

contest. Nick, thanks very much. In politics, as President FD

:07:21.:07:24.

Roosevelt once remarked, If it happens, you can

:07:25.:07:26.

bet it was planned. To suggest the country knew it

:07:27.:07:29.

would elect a minority Conservative government backed up,

:07:30.:07:31.

potentially, by the DUP But perhaps the electorate knew

:07:32.:07:33.

what it was doing when it refused to wholly embrace either Theresa May

:07:34.:07:37.

or Jeremy Corbyn in their whole Many accepted beliefs turned

:07:38.:07:40.

out to be plain wrong. We, as a country,

:07:41.:07:46.

particularly perhaps the young, are learning we have more

:07:47.:07:48.

of a voice than we believed. So what does this election suggest

:07:49.:07:52.

about a new direction for Britain now, and does that mean the last

:07:53.:07:55.

one was wrong, or our appetite This is the first full day

:07:56.:07:58.

of minority government Britain. The rising sun, however,

:07:59.:08:05.

provided little warmth to Theresa May - nor much

:08:06.:08:07.

illumination of her path forward. What's protecting Theresa May right

:08:08.:08:13.

now is not the loyalty, the respect, It's the fact that they can't

:08:14.:08:16.

see anyone obvious with whom to replace her,

:08:17.:08:21.

nor can they see an obvious process to find that person that doesn't

:08:22.:08:24.

risk plunging the government In the words of the poet

:08:25.:08:26.

Hilare Belloc, they are only holding onto nurse for fear

:08:27.:08:34.

of finding something worse. There may be little public activity,

:08:35.:08:40.

but in WhatsApp chat groups and in private discreet telephone

:08:41.:08:43.

conversations, Conservative MP are venting their anger

:08:44.:08:47.

about what happened to their party Ed Vaizey was

:08:48.:08:50.

close to David Cameron, He believes Theresa May must now

:08:51.:08:54.

change both her approach and her policies if she's

:08:55.:09:00.

to hold the party together. She will, I think, have to make sure

:09:01.:09:04.

that she takes us all with her. That it becomes a very inclusive

:09:05.:09:08.

government that reaches out And I hope as well that she will

:09:09.:09:11.

have read the tea leaves in terms And the message that I got loud

:09:12.:09:18.

and clear is that voters have We can't any more talk about no deal

:09:19.:09:24.

being better than a bad deal. The view that the nature of Brexit

:09:25.:09:31.

will have to change is supported by the fact that the Conservatives'

:09:32.:09:34.

new partners, the ten MPs of the DUP, want the UK to stay

:09:35.:09:36.

in the customs union, and want a frictionless border

:09:37.:09:41.

in Northern Ireland. So is this the end of what critics

:09:42.:09:44.

call a hard Brexit? We've got to remember that

:09:45.:09:48.

Labour lost this election. You know, when given the choice

:09:49.:09:51.

as to who should lead the country through the Brexit negotiations,

:09:52.:09:54.

people, by a majority on the popular And they did that in the

:09:55.:09:59.

full knowledge of the plan that she's laid out,

:10:00.:10:04.

set out in her Lancaster House speech, which sets out

:10:05.:10:06.

that we want to guarantee the rights of EU citizens as quickly

:10:07.:10:09.

as possible, but that we want to be a global nation determining

:10:10.:10:12.

our own trade policy. That we want to have our

:10:13.:10:15.

supremacy over our courts. And I think that those,

:10:16.:10:19.

amongst other issues, are the clear objectives of Brexit,

:10:20.:10:21.

and that really is what In the '70s, a minority

:10:22.:10:25.

Labour administration. Lord Armstrong was principal

:10:26.:10:32.

private secretary to the then 1974 does demonstrate that

:10:33.:10:35.

when you have a government which has not got a firm overall majority,

:10:36.:10:44.

then the great uncertainty that prevails spreads

:10:45.:10:50.

over a lots of things. Certainly over the

:10:51.:10:54.

Brexit negotiations. But over the matters

:10:55.:10:58.

of policy as well. It will affect all the

:10:59.:11:03.

social welfare legislation, which the Conservatives

:11:04.:11:07.

announced that they wanted. It will affect great

:11:08.:11:12.

many things, I think. All this, and in just nine days'

:11:13.:11:15.

time the government will present a Queen's Speech to parliament,

:11:16.:11:18.

and Brexit negotiations with the rest of Europe

:11:19.:11:22.

are scheduled to start. Theresa May's weakness in her party,

:11:23.:11:24.

and in Parliament, make these Lord Barker - Greg Barker

:11:25.:11:28.

is a former minster under Can she survive this? That remains

:11:29.:11:45.

to be seen. It'll be the mood of the Parliamentary party when they come

:11:46.:11:51.

together that will really judge that about I dictate that there is

:11:52.:11:55.

certainly no appetite in the party for an immediate leadership contest.

:11:56.:11:59.

So I think we'll have to see what the Commons has to say when they

:12:00.:12:02.

meet. How does she stay in place when there is so much anger in

:12:03.:12:08.

Conservative homes, two thirds of MPs saying she should go? There is

:12:09.:12:13.

no trust left, is there? There is clearly not going to be another

:12:14.:12:16.

election with Theresa May at the head. We discovered that she's a

:12:17.:12:20.

competent minister. Potentially a tough negotiator but a terrible

:12:21.:12:24.

campaigner. So I think the Parliamentary party, if this

:12:25.:12:31.

potential agreement with the DUP sticks, and there would be a general

:12:32.:12:34.

election for several years potentially five years, it gives

:12:35.:12:38.

Theresa May sometime for the Parliamentary party and the wider

:12:39.:12:40.

party to work out what they actually want to replace her. You are in the

:12:41.:12:45.

Lords, not an MP. There will be many who were very, very worried about

:12:46.:12:49.

their seats and lost them. In your opinion, should she go now for

:12:50.:12:53.

watches done? I think, as I said, there's no way we wanted to leaders

:12:54.:12:59.

into another election. The question of timing now was critical. This is

:13:00.:13:04.

unlike David Cameron's position after the Brexit about because we

:13:05.:13:12.

are right on the edge of serious negotiations. We learn from David

:13:13.:13:15.

Cameron, people wished he had not 's gone so quickly. I'm certainly one

:13:16.:13:20.

of them. I don't think the Tory party will make the mistakes of

:13:21.:13:25.

pushing out the leader. That suggests Brexit the gauche Asians

:13:26.:13:28.

will be on track. Do you believe that to be the case, though? It is

:13:29.:13:33.

chicken and egg, isn't it? If the leader is not in place, the Brexit

:13:34.:13:39.

negotiations will be pushed back. If Theresa May can come and confidence

:13:40.:13:42.

of the party in the Commons, then I think it will be on track. Would you

:13:43.:13:49.

like to be on track? We need to know what is the Brexit negotiation

:13:50.:13:53.

aiming to achieve? I'm very much agreeing with what Ed Vaizey said in

:13:54.:13:56.

your piece there that we need to think again about what the Brexit we

:13:57.:14:03.

are going to be pushing for looks like and certainly I think hard

:14:04.:14:07.

Brexit has had its day and need a greater consensus, not just within

:14:08.:14:11.

the party, but Theresa May needs to play a national role and forge a

:14:12.:14:15.

greater consensus across the House of Commons on what Brexit should

:14:16.:14:19.

look like. That is the role of. If she could transcend parties, and try

:14:20.:14:24.

to bring people together... It hard Brexit has had its day, presumably

:14:25.:14:29.

she would not be the right person to see it through. Are there not other

:14:30.:14:33.

people you can see taking on the helm who perhaps understand this new

:14:34.:14:37.

mood of the country better than she clearly did? I think in the long

:14:38.:14:42.

term, that's right. It's not if, but when. Who? We need someone who can

:14:43.:14:50.

campaign, is articulate, more animated than Theresa May, but also

:14:51.:14:54.

has the values that will capture the imagination of younger voters as

:14:55.:14:58.

well as our traditional base. That is quite a tall order for them the

:14:59.:15:02.

only person I can see who might fit that bill would be Amber Rudd, but

:15:03.:15:08.

use only been in the Cabinet a couple of years. You would rule out

:15:09.:15:14.

Boris Johnson, David Davis, people who align along the Brexit, hard

:15:15.:15:17.

Brexit line? What we do know is that you've got

:15:18.:15:24.

to be able to go to the electric with more than one message. The idea

:15:25.:15:28.

that you can have a single issue election whenever it comes is for

:15:29.:15:32.

the birds. In electing a Tory leader, we've got to have someone

:15:33.:15:36.

that can speak to the whole Conservative agenda, and that agenda

:15:37.:15:40.

needs a massive reboot. We need to look to the success of Ruth Davidson

:15:41.:15:45.

in Scotland and embrace her positive, outward looking optimistic

:15:46.:15:48.

style of politics. I'm just hearing from Nick Watt that the DUP may

:15:49.:15:52.

align itself with the Conservative Party in a confidence and supply

:15:53.:15:58.

arrangement. Would that suit you? That would be ideal. So you would

:15:59.:16:04.

not mind, and there would be many people, Conservative voters and

:16:05.:16:07.

wider, who say the DUP represents everything that Theresa May meant

:16:08.:16:12.

when she talks about Nasty Party. They are certainly not our allies of

:16:13.:16:16.

choice. Personally I would prefer to do a deal with the Lib Dems. We have

:16:17.:16:21.

a strong and stable coalition for five years with the Lib Dems. But

:16:22.:16:25.

that is not on the cards. What is the alternative? It would be given

:16:26.:16:31.

the keys to Jeremy Corbyn. We are looking at the party that is

:16:32.:16:35.

homophobic, but doesn't believe in climate change, but talks about

:16:36.:16:39.

creationism. I abhor all of those things. That could drag the party

:16:40.:16:44.

backwards. If it's just confidence supply, which basically means that

:16:45.:16:47.

they backed us on the big vote when it counts, they're not going to get

:16:48.:16:52.

their hands on... The anti austerity vote? Well, on the budget, and the

:16:53.:16:57.

Queen's speech. Then going to get their hands on the levers of power

:16:58.:17:01.

in any meaningful way. But the alternative is to let Jeremy Corbyn

:17:02.:17:07.

in. And his in Hamas, the provisional IRA... The idea that you

:17:08.:17:12.

could have somebody who calls Hamas their friend. Their agenda for LB GT

:17:13.:17:18.

writes is truly horrific. Nobody is talking about an allegiance. Thank

:17:19.:17:24.

you very much. The best seats of the house in

:17:25.:17:26.

this extraordinary election Our friends on the continent watched

:17:27.:17:29.

on as the country tried to tear itself apart over

:17:30.:17:33.

a Brexit referendum. Only to go back to the ballot box

:17:34.:17:35.

and tell the leader who promised them a "strong and stable" Brexit

:17:36.:17:38.

deal they didn't really want one. Certainly it may be the best

:17:39.:17:41.

deterrent Merkel could ever imagine to more countries demanding

:17:42.:17:46.

their own exit from the EU. Mark Urban has been speaking

:17:47.:17:49.

to Angel Merkel's closest government He began by asking him

:17:50.:17:51.

whether Brexit negotiations It depends on the UK's decision,

:17:52.:17:55.

of course, largely, What we know so far is that the UK

:17:56.:17:58.

has triggered Article 50, and that means a delay of two years

:17:59.:18:02.

will be available to negotiate transitional

:18:03.:18:05.

periods, citizens' rights. And we hope that all this can

:18:06.:18:07.

be done in due time. But we have never interfered

:18:08.:18:09.

with domestic political We have allowed for sufficient

:18:10.:18:16.

time to decide when to We have allowed for a reshuffle

:18:17.:18:24.

last year in August. And certainly we have understood

:18:25.:18:30.

that the UK is in a situation where some things have

:18:31.:18:40.

to be considered. And therefore we will respect widely

:18:41.:18:41.

andas good as we can the decisions What would happen if the UK tried

:18:42.:18:44.

to change its mind about the whole thing and tried to withdraw

:18:45.:18:49.

the Article 50 declaration? This is a trap and I've avoided

:18:50.:18:52.

these types of traps now Because the question whether Article

:18:53.:18:57.

50 application has to be changed or not is something

:18:58.:19:05.

to be decided in the UK. Theresa May has explained

:19:06.:19:10.

Brexit means Brexit. This is the official position

:19:11.:19:18.

of the British government, and this is understood

:19:19.:19:20.

and accepted by Europe. To what extent do you think

:19:21.:19:23.

attitudes across Europe Over the last two months

:19:24.:19:25.

we have seen a considerable We have seen it in Germany,

:19:26.:19:31.

where Angela Merkel has the support of a growing number of citizens

:19:32.:19:37.

and is leading the polls. Younger people are more interested

:19:38.:19:39.

in politics than ever We have a more vivid

:19:40.:19:47.

political debate. It's of course awfully difficult,

:19:48.:19:52.

but it presents also a chance. It presents a chance for reflection

:19:53.:19:55.

about the challenges And this is something we want to do

:19:56.:19:58.

together with the United Kingdom, either inside or outside

:19:59.:20:02.

the European Union. To discuss this extraordinary

:20:03.:20:12.

few days, we're joined by the Historian Simon Schama,

:20:13.:20:20.

the fomrer Ukip leader Nigel Farage, and the Canary's editor-in-chief,

:20:21.:20:23.

Kerry-Anne Mendoza. Lucky to have you all here. Nigel,

:20:24.:20:31.

you brought your party, you brought this country to a place where Brexit

:20:32.:20:34.

became possible. Do you still believe that Brexit you envisioned

:20:35.:20:39.

will go ahead? Brexit will go ahead, I'm certain of that. 85% of people

:20:40.:20:45.

voted for pro-Brexit parties. One of the reason Corbyn managed to hoover

:20:46.:20:49.

up the Ukip wrote, he made it clear that Labour supports Brexit. Having

:20:50.:20:53.

said that, do I think now today that we're going to get the kind of

:20:54.:20:56.

Brexit but most of the voters thought they were going to get? I

:20:57.:21:01.

think that is imperilled. I suspect what we will see is a government

:21:02.:21:05.

that will struggle to get things through the Commons. I think they're

:21:06.:21:08.

probably headed towards a Norway type situation, two and a half years

:21:09.:21:14.

down the road. That would be OK with you? Norway is better than where we

:21:15.:21:17.

are now, but it is certainly not where I want to finish up. Is it

:21:18.:21:22.

enough to get you back into Ukip in a meaningful way? I'm not sure of

:21:23.:21:27.

the moment at this right now. But you are considering... Paul Nuttall

:21:28.:21:30.

said he would happily swap your LBC Radio show for the leadership, and

:21:31.:21:37.

he is gone now. So, yes, there is a vacancy! Yes, I am thinking about

:21:38.:21:40.

it. But it's not top of my bucket list. For me, getting the referendum

:21:41.:21:44.

are helping to win it, I thought I was done. But I do think we will see

:21:45.:21:51.

its backsliding. Did you hear 85% backing for Brexit? That was Nigel

:21:52.:21:56.

Farage's point, that Labour and the Conservatives were backing Brexit.

:21:57.:21:59.

Is that how you read the vote on Thursday night? Know. I think

:22:00.:22:04.

Theresa May and people like Nigel Farage work very hard to make this

:22:05.:22:08.

election about Brexit. What this election was really about four

:22:09.:22:11.

people was hope versus fear. That was about what kind of country do we

:22:12.:22:15.

want to live in. Do we want to live in a country which is cool, lacks

:22:16.:22:20.

compassion, lets us get to a situation where nurses are dependent

:22:21.:22:24.

on food banks? Or do we want to be a compassionate country at home and

:22:25.:22:28.

abroad? That was the message that won the day. It was a message that

:22:29.:22:32.

we would invest in each other, in our NHS, in our education system.

:22:33.:22:38.

Theresa May fringe at about Brexit. It was a wholly unnecessary election

:22:39.:22:41.

because there was nothing in the Commons and Lords that was going to

:22:42.:22:44.

stop publishing Brexit and through. Simon, last time we asked after the

:22:45.:22:50.

Brexit Bogut by where a quantity of left behind people that have been

:22:51.:22:53.

ignored and we had to take them seriously. Who do you think be left

:22:54.:22:57.

behind people now, when you see this vote and the way gone? Well, I think

:22:58.:23:03.

it's not a question of who has been ignored, but what has been ignored.

:23:04.:23:07.

What has been ignored as the debate between high Brexit and soft Brexit.

:23:08.:23:11.

I agree with Kerry that bread-and-butter issues, the basic

:23:12.:23:14.

civil decencies of life, became extremely important and they were

:23:15.:23:17.

brilliantly pushed to the foreground by the Labour campaign. First of

:23:18.:23:22.

all, I must say the headline in the Daily Mail tomorrow, I am sure there

:23:23.:23:31.

are going to change the Mail on Sunday, to "Farage OK with Norway".

:23:32.:23:36.

I'm not OK with that. I said, it's better than where we are, but it's

:23:37.:23:42.

not what we voted for. The positive thing about Brexit was that we were

:23:43.:23:47.

voting to engage with the rest of the world and you can't do that if

:23:48.:23:50.

you're stuck inside the customs union. There was a customs union

:23:51.:23:53.

which meant more freedom to people in terms of immigration, then in

:23:54.:23:56.

your terms and back where we started, are we? Isn't still a good

:23:57.:24:00.

enough reason to leave the EU? If we finish up at the end of this process

:24:01.:24:05.

with the free movement of people and without the ability peek at our own

:24:06.:24:08.

global deals, frankly we're not that much further forward. -- ability to

:24:09.:24:16.

cut our own global deals. This is part of the reason that Ukip were

:24:17.:24:20.

wiped out of this election, the hope versus fear issue. For years that we

:24:21.:24:23.

have had Nigel Farage walking around like a pound and punish a promising

:24:24.:24:32.

people but problems they had with -- Nigel Farage walking around

:24:33.:24:34.

promising people but the problems that they had, but now the only

:24:35.:24:41.

answer is to scapegoat the most marginalised, vulnerable

:24:42.:24:47.

communities. No, no, no. At the Conservative campaign failed to

:24:48.:24:52.

address that? I think you're being too binary about this. There are

:24:53.:24:55.

very important issues about what they call a social decency of life,

:24:56.:25:00.

and then the issues with Britain intends the sovereign state. They've

:25:01.:25:02.

come together precisely because the Labour Party manifesto did make a

:25:03.:25:07.

difference. Jeremy Corbyn said and the Labour Party said that the kind

:25:08.:25:13.

of Brexit to which we are hurtling is not the one endorsed by the

:25:14.:25:17.

Labour Party. I'm saying that those who are worried about Theresa May's

:25:18.:25:23.

endless mantra, Brexit is Brexit, are exactly those worried about what

:25:24.:25:29.

is our fate going to be? What is social care to be like? What is the

:25:30.:25:33.

future for us in terms of the issues of our daily life if we simply

:25:34.:25:39.

mechanically moved towards a hard Brexit? Jeremy Corbyn did also make

:25:40.:25:43.

clear that leaving the European Union would mean the ending of

:25:44.:25:47.

freedom of movement. You know, he did say these things. People who

:25:48.:25:51.

voted Labour, they were voting for this. There will be lots of reading

:25:52.:25:56.

the tea leaves of what the Labour Party meant about Brexit in a place

:25:57.:26:00.

where they needed votes. When you look to the future now, do you

:26:01.:26:06.

think... UK's share of the vote is 2%. Does that sound like a rejection

:26:07.:26:11.

of nasty Britain, or a Brexit but didn't like the language of

:26:12.:26:16.

intolerance? In the last general election, 13% of the country voted

:26:17.:26:21.

for a pro-Brexit party. This time it was 85%. That is the effect that

:26:22.:26:25.

Ukip has had. The day before the election was called, three separate

:26:26.:26:29.

opinion polls showed... You don't mind carrying on as a part of the

:26:30.:26:33.

other party, is that what you were saying? That up to 70% of the

:26:34.:26:37.

country wanted us to get on with Brexit. As far as Ukip is concerned,

:26:38.:26:41.

if we don't get the Brexit we want, we will be backing Brexit with a big

:26:42.:26:47.

way. The future of Theresa May, for the young people this has been a

:26:48.:26:52.

rejection of tabloid headlines, anti-media. What is your take on

:26:53.:26:55.

where Theresa May lies now? Theresa May has to go. She's done. She's

:26:56.:27:01.

done politically, she has no vision for this country but has compelled

:27:02.:27:07.

anybody. You've got a Labour Party that is reinvigorated, and more

:27:08.:27:09.

importantly a labour movement which is reinvigorated. It's engaging the

:27:10.:27:16.

young, the old, the day, the straight, the black, white, and

:27:17.:27:19.

brown, and all the colours in between. All of what Ukip but

:27:20.:27:25.

uncomfortable with? I think that's Theresa May in the end will go.

:27:26.:27:29.

Corbyn looked comfortable in his own skin. There was energy from the

:27:30.:27:35.

moment he launched the manifesto. I said, wow. Theresa May had none of

:27:36.:27:39.

the. This'll be a seminal moment in our history, as we said Brexit was.

:27:40.:27:44.

Where do you think this will take us? We want someone who actually

:27:45.:27:49.

does embody a sense of the national interest. It comes out of Theresa

:27:50.:27:54.

May's mouth of a robotic mantra. You cannot possibly have someone as

:27:55.:28:00.

incompetent, spectacularly incompetent as Theresa May has

:28:01.:28:04.

proven herself going forward to the negotiations for Brexit. You might

:28:05.:28:08.

as well pick someone at random out of the Yellow Pages. They would be

:28:09.:28:15.

better than her! Do you think... The other problem is, she doesn't

:28:16.:28:20.

believe it. So you all agreeing for all areas of the spectrum that

:28:21.:28:24.

Theresa May has got to go? Doesn't this just show you how fickle the UK

:28:25.:28:29.

imagination all electorate is? When she went to the polls in April, she

:28:30.:28:33.

thought she was going to come back with a massive majority. The British

:28:34.:28:39.

electorate, God bless it, Sastre her out. She got found out, and her

:28:40.:28:44.

managers got found out, and politics, the machine, got found

:28:45.:28:48.

out. She has been an invisible PM since she came to office. She has

:28:49.:28:52.

been issuing legislation through decree when the British public got

:28:53.:28:55.

to see her face to face, they didn't like it and went another way. Thank

:28:56.:29:00.

you all very much indeed, that's all we have time for this evening.

:29:01.:29:02.

We're back on Monday at our usual time.

:29:03.:29:04.

MUSIC: Power by Kanye West

:29:05.:29:16.

# No one man should have all that power... #

:29:17.:29:22.

There's nothing more Machiavellian...

:29:23.:29:28.

I am disgusted at the way this has been presented.

:29:29.:29:31.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS