Can May Govern? Newsnight

Politics has never looked more lowly job. Tonight as her top aides quit,

the PM seems more isolated than ever.

Ferociously loyal and always in step, Fiona Hill and Nick Timothy

What's protecting Theresa May right now is not the loyalty,

the respect or even the fear of her party.

It's the fact that they can't see anyone obvious with

Nor can they see an obvious process to find that person that doesn't

risk plunging the party and the government into

There were frustrations in the party.

It was about whether or not all of us felt included in her project.

Is Europe laughing at us or as confused as we are?

Mark Urban speaks to Angela Merkel's right-hand man.

We should go into the details as soon as possible.

And do we have to define a new direction for Britain now?

We speak to Nigel Farage, Simon Schama and Kerry Ann Mendoza.

Good evening and Welcome to Westminster.

Do not be fooled by the gentle breeze of a summer weekend.

Today saw no calm, no respite in the pace of change

and power-shifting that gives this place its identity.

Senior Conservatives began the day calling for the resignation

of Theresa May's joint chiefs of staff.

By the afternoon, they got what they wanted.

Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill were known for their unwavering loyalty.

The PM was accused of relying on them too heavily,

closing her eyes to a more collegiate, consensual

Yet these chiefs of staff were at the very heart of government.

They knew how to shield her from the hostile parts of the job

They were not just moral support, they were, Nick Clegg told us,

instrumental to practically every decision she took.

I asked her not to bring the special advisers

with her into the meetings that I used to have with her because I

found it all rather disruptive, but I did find that,

as a result, I could never get a decision out of her

in the meetings because she'd have to go back and I assume test her

ideas and test my suggestions with people around her.

Nick Timothy offered reason for his resignation by letter,

nodding to the high number of Conservative votes on Thursday,

but accepting his part too in the disaster that was the social

care policy, admitting he should have offered

a cap as well as a floor for the cost of it.

She was known to rub many in Number 10 up the wrong way.

Her erratic behaviour became the stuff of hushed legend.

Insiders will tell you of the time she spat at the Chancellor Philip

Hammond or the sweary texts she wrote to elected ministers.

The party's former Director of Communications didn't

Katie Perrier accused them both of creating a dysfunctional

and toxic atmosphere in Downing Street.

We were going into an 8.30 meeting every morning at Theresa May's

office and the atmosphere would be great if the Chief of Staff were not

there and terrible if the chief of Staff were there.

And so we would be able to speak freely if they weren't around

and if they were around, you don't speak.

But it was senior Tories who demanded their heads.

They wouldn't have gone if they hadn't intended

They were meant to be the sacrifice, the front-line casualties

protecting their general from further arrows but,

whatever the objective, their departure leaves Theresa May

A bleeding swimmer in shark-infested waters when the boat sails

For a day or two certainly, it gives her breathing space.

But Jeremy Corbyn is still waiting in the wings.

Our political editor Nick Watt is here.

Talk today of a DUP Alliance or coalition. Howard that work-out?

Gavin Williamson has been in Northern Ireland today meeting

Arlene Foster, the leader of the DUP and other DUP leaders and I am tell

down looking at the full range of possibilities from just an informal

and are taking all the way through to a fault coalition agreement and I

am told what the DUP are looking at is securing welfare benefits, so

keep the pension triple lock and preserve universal benefits such as

the winter fuel allowance for pensioners. It allows the DUP to say

when just acting in the interests of Northern Ireland but are acting in

the interests of the whole of the UK. And then it would allow the

Tories to remove parts of their manifesto that became so toxic with

pensioners. I spoke to one senior source quoting Lynton Crosby, the

man who ran the Conservative campaign in the final stages, who

would allow the Tories to remove the barnacles from the boat. It sounds

like she's preparing to stay but wasn't always that way? It's a

feverish atmosphere at the moment and there is uncertainty among

Cabinet ministers over the long-term future of the Prime Minister and I

am told in this rather feeble atmosphere, serious consideration

was given in the early hours of Friday morning as to whether the

Prime Minister should resign. I am told by the time of her counting in

Maidenhead, and she was in trouble, the Prime Minister was completely

devastated. There was even talk of resignation speech was drafted in

the early hours of Friday morning, the idea was the primaries to would

make a statement later won on Friday. As I understand it, what

happened was amid the uncertainty over the result, senior Tory figures

said that they should look at how to respond to all outcomes of the

election but it's the duty of any Prime Minister to respond to all

those various outcomes and remember, for a brief period, there was even

talk Jeremy Corbyn might be the largest party but it soon became

clear that Theresa May would lead the largest party and, at that

point, it was her duty as she later said on Friday, two former

Government. Which is why we are looking towards a reshuffle this

evening. Yes, we were expecting a full reshuffle earlier on today. As

I understand it, it has been described as the last blast

reshuffle. Basically reappointing the mainly existing cabinet and the

phrase they are saying, alas top last reshuffle until the leadership

of the Conservative Party is sorted out. That means either Theresa May

does continue when she has a full deal with the DUP or there is a

contest. Nick, thanks very much. In politics, as President FD

Roosevelt once remarked, If it happens, you can

bet it was planned. To suggest the country knew it

would elect a minority Conservative government backed up,

potentially, by the DUP But perhaps the electorate knew

what it was doing when it refused to wholly embrace either Theresa May

or Jeremy Corbyn in their whole Many accepted beliefs turned

out to be plain wrong. We, as a country,

particularly perhaps the young, are learning we have more

of a voice than we believed. So what does this election suggest

about a new direction for Britain now, and does that mean the last

one was wrong, or our appetite This is the first full day

of minority government Britain. The rising sun, however,

provided little warmth to Theresa May - nor much

illumination of her path forward. What's protecting Theresa May right

now is not the loyalty, the respect, It's the fact that they can't

see anyone obvious with whom to replace her,

nor can they see an obvious process to find that person that doesn't

risk plunging the government In the words of the poet

Hilare Belloc, they are only holding onto nurse for fear

of finding something worse. There may be little public activity,

but in WhatsApp chat groups and in private discreet telephone

conversations, Conservative MP are venting their anger

about what happened to their party Ed Vaizey was

close to David Cameron, He believes Theresa May must now

change both her approach and her policies if she's

to hold the party together. She will, I think, have to make sure

that she takes us all with her. That it becomes a very inclusive

government that reaches out And I hope as well that she will

have read the tea leaves in terms And the message that I got loud

and clear is that voters have We can't any more talk about no deal

being better than a bad deal. The view that the nature of Brexit

will have to change is supported by the fact that the Conservatives'

new partners, the ten MPs of the DUP, want the UK to stay

in the customs union, and want a frictionless border

in Northern Ireland. So is this the end of what critics

call a hard Brexit? We've got to remember that

Labour lost this election. You know, when given the choice

as to who should lead the country through the Brexit negotiations,

people, by a majority on the popular And they did that in the

full knowledge of the plan that she's laid out,

set out in her Lancaster House speech, which sets out

that we want to guarantee the rights of EU citizens as quickly

as possible, but that we want to be a global nation determining

our own trade policy. That we want to have our

supremacy over our courts. And I think that those,

amongst other issues, are the clear objectives of Brexit,

and that really is what In the '70s, a minority

Labour administration. Lord Armstrong was principal

private secretary to the then 1974 does demonstrate that

when you have a government which has not got a firm overall majority,

then the great uncertainty that prevails spreads

over a lots of things. Certainly over the

Brexit negotiations. But over the matters

of policy as well. It will affect all the

social welfare legislation, which the Conservatives

announced that they wanted. It will affect great

many things, I think. All this, and in just nine days'

time the government will present a Queen's Speech to parliament,

and Brexit negotiations with the rest of Europe

are scheduled to start. Theresa May's weakness in her party,

and in Parliament, make these Lord Barker - Greg Barker

is a former minster under Can she survive this? That remains

to be seen. It'll be the mood of the Parliamentary party when they come

together that will really judge that about I dictate that there is

certainly no appetite in the party for an immediate leadership contest.

So I think we'll have to see what the Commons has to say when they

meet. How does she stay in place when there is so much anger in

Conservative homes, two thirds of MPs saying she should go? There is

no trust left, is there? There is clearly not going to be another

election with Theresa May at the head. We discovered that she's a

competent minister. Potentially a tough negotiator but a terrible

campaigner. So I think the Parliamentary party, if this

potential agreement with the DUP sticks, and there would be a general

election for several years potentially five years, it gives

Theresa May sometime for the Parliamentary party and the wider

party to work out what they actually want to replace her. You are in the

Lords, not an MP. There will be many who were very, very worried about

their seats and lost them. In your opinion, should she go now for

watches done? I think, as I said, there's no way we wanted to leaders

into another election. The question of timing now was critical. This is

unlike David Cameron's position after the Brexit about because we

are right on the edge of serious negotiations. We learn from David

Cameron, people wished he had not 's gone so quickly. I'm certainly one

of them. I don't think the Tory party will make the mistakes of

pushing out the leader. That suggests Brexit the gauche Asians

will be on track. Do you believe that to be the case, though? It is

chicken and egg, isn't it? If the leader is not in place, the Brexit

negotiations will be pushed back. If Theresa May can come and confidence

of the party in the Commons, then I think it will be on track. Would you

like to be on track? We need to know what is the Brexit negotiation

aiming to achieve? I'm very much agreeing with what Ed Vaizey said in

your piece there that we need to think again about what the Brexit we

are going to be pushing for looks like and certainly I think hard

Brexit has had its day and need a greater consensus, not just within

the party, but Theresa May needs to play a national role and forge a

greater consensus across the House of Commons on what Brexit should

look like. That is the role of. If she could transcend parties, and try

to bring people together... It hard Brexit has had its day, presumably

she would not be the right person to see it through. Are there not other

people you can see taking on the helm who perhaps understand this new

mood of the country better than she clearly did? I think in the long

term, that's right. It's not if, but when. Who? We need someone who can

campaign, is articulate, more animated than Theresa May, but also

has the values that will capture the imagination of younger voters as

well as our traditional base. That is quite a tall order for them the

only person I can see who might fit that bill would be Amber Rudd, but

use only been in the Cabinet a couple of years. You would rule out

Boris Johnson, David Davis, people who align along the Brexit, hard

Brexit line? What we do know is that you've got

to be able to go to the electric with more than one message. The idea

that you can have a single issue election whenever it comes is for

the birds. In electing a Tory leader, we've got to have someone

that can speak to the whole Conservative agenda, and that agenda

needs a massive reboot. We need to look to the success of Ruth Davidson

in Scotland and embrace her positive, outward looking optimistic

style of politics. I'm just hearing from Nick Watt that the DUP may

align itself with the Conservative Party in a confidence and supply

arrangement. Would that suit you? That would be ideal. So you would

not mind, and there would be many people, Conservative voters and

wider, who say the DUP represents everything that Theresa May meant

when she talks about Nasty Party. They are certainly not our allies of

choice. Personally I would prefer to do a deal with the Lib Dems. We have

a strong and stable coalition for five years with the Lib Dems. But

that is not on the cards. What is the alternative? It would be given

the keys to Jeremy Corbyn. We are looking at the party that is

homophobic, but doesn't believe in climate change, but talks about

creationism. I abhor all of those things. That could drag the party

backwards. If it's just confidence supply, which basically means that

they backed us on the big vote when it counts, they're not going to get

their hands on... The anti austerity vote? Well, on the budget, and the

Queen's speech. Then going to get their hands on the levers of power

in any meaningful way. But the alternative is to let Jeremy Corbyn

in. And his in Hamas, the provisional IRA... The idea that you

could have somebody who calls Hamas their friend. Their agenda for LB GT

writes is truly horrific. Nobody is talking about an allegiance. Thank

you very much. The best seats of the house in

this extraordinary election Our friends on the continent watched

on as the country tried to tear itself apart over

a Brexit referendum. Only to go back to the ballot box

and tell the leader who promised them a "strong and stable" Brexit

deal they didn't really want one. Certainly it may be the best

deterrent Merkel could ever imagine to more countries demanding

their own exit from the EU. Mark Urban has been speaking

to Angel Merkel's closest government He began by asking him

whether Brexit negotiations It depends on the UK's decision,

of course, largely, What we know so far is that the UK

has triggered Article 50, and that means a delay of two years

will be available to negotiate transitional

periods, citizens' rights. And we hope that all this can

be done in due time. But we have never interfered

with domestic political We have allowed for sufficient

time to decide when to We have allowed for a reshuffle

last year in August. And certainly we have understood

that the UK is in a situation where some things have

to be considered. And therefore we will respect widely

andas good as we can the decisions What would happen if the UK tried

to change its mind about the whole thing and tried to withdraw

the Article 50 declaration? This is a trap and I've avoided

these types of traps now Because the question whether Article

50 application has to be changed or not is something

to be decided in the UK. Theresa May has explained

Brexit means Brexit. This is the official position

of the British government, and this is understood

and accepted by Europe. To what extent do you think

attitudes across Europe Over the last two months

we have seen a considerable We have seen it in Germany,

where Angela Merkel has the support of a growing number of citizens

and is leading the polls. Younger people are more interested

in politics than ever We have a more vivid

political debate. It's of course awfully difficult,

but it presents also a chance. It presents a chance for reflection

about the challenges And this is something we want to do

together with the United Kingdom, either inside or outside

the European Union. To discuss this extraordinary

few days, we're joined by the Historian Simon Schama,

the fomrer Ukip leader Nigel Farage, and the Canary's editor-in-chief,

Kerry-Anne Mendoza. Lucky to have you all here. Nigel,

you brought your party, you brought this country to a place where Brexit

became possible. Do you still believe that Brexit you envisioned

will go ahead? Brexit will go ahead, I'm certain of that. 85% of people

voted for pro-Brexit parties. One of the reason Corbyn managed to hoover

up the Ukip wrote, he made it clear that Labour supports Brexit. Having

said that, do I think now today that we're going to get the kind of

Brexit but most of the voters thought they were going to get? I

think that is imperilled. I suspect what we will see is a government

that will struggle to get things through the Commons. I think they're

probably headed towards a Norway type situation, two and a half years

down the road. That would be OK with you? Norway is better than where we

are now, but it is certainly not where I want to finish up. Is it

enough to get you back into Ukip in a meaningful way? I'm not sure of

the moment at this right now. But you are considering... Paul Nuttall

said he would happily swap your LBC Radio show for the leadership, and

he is gone now. So, yes, there is a vacancy! Yes, I am thinking about

it. But it's not top of my bucket list. For me, getting the referendum

are helping to win it, I thought I was done. But I do think we will see

its backsliding. Did you hear 85% backing for Brexit? That was Nigel

Farage's point, that Labour and the Conservatives were backing Brexit.

Is that how you read the vote on Thursday night? Know. I think

Theresa May and people like Nigel Farage work very hard to make this

election about Brexit. What this election was really about four

people was hope versus fear. That was about what kind of country do we

want to live in. Do we want to live in a country which is cool, lacks

compassion, lets us get to a situation where nurses are dependent

on food banks? Or do we want to be a compassionate country at home and

abroad? That was the message that won the day. It was a message that

we would invest in each other, in our NHS, in our education system.

Theresa May fringe at about Brexit. It was a wholly unnecessary election

because there was nothing in the Commons and Lords that was going to

stop publishing Brexit and through. Simon, last time we asked after the

Brexit Bogut by where a quantity of left behind people that have been

ignored and we had to take them seriously. Who do you think be left

behind people now, when you see this vote and the way gone? Well, I think

it's not a question of who has been ignored, but what has been ignored.

What has been ignored as the debate between high Brexit and soft Brexit.

I agree with Kerry that bread-and-butter issues, the basic

civil decencies of life, became extremely important and they were

brilliantly pushed to the foreground by the Labour campaign. First of

all, I must say the headline in the Daily Mail tomorrow, I am sure there

are going to change the Mail on Sunday, to "Farage OK with Norway".

I'm not OK with that. I said, it's better than where we are, but it's

not what we voted for. The positive thing about Brexit was that we were

voting to engage with the rest of the world and you can't do that if

you're stuck inside the customs union. There was a customs union

which meant more freedom to people in terms of immigration, then in

your terms and back where we started, are we? Isn't still a good

enough reason to leave the EU? If we finish up at the end of this process

with the free movement of people and without the ability peek at our own

global deals, frankly we're not that much further forward. -- ability to

cut our own global deals. This is part of the reason that Ukip were

wiped out of this election, the hope versus fear issue. For years that we

have had Nigel Farage walking around like a pound and punish a promising

people but problems they had with -- Nigel Farage walking around

promising people but the problems that they had, but now the only

answer is to scapegoat the most marginalised, vulnerable

communities. No, no, no. At the Conservative campaign failed to

address that? I think you're being too binary about this. There are

very important issues about what they call a social decency of life,

and then the issues with Britain intends the sovereign state. They've

come together precisely because the Labour Party manifesto did make a

difference. Jeremy Corbyn said and the Labour Party said that the kind

of Brexit to which we are hurtling is not the one endorsed by the

Labour Party. I'm saying that those who are worried about Theresa May's

endless mantra, Brexit is Brexit, are exactly those worried about what

is our fate going to be? What is social care to be like? What is the

future for us in terms of the issues of our daily life if we simply

mechanically moved towards a hard Brexit? Jeremy Corbyn did also make

clear that leaving the European Union would mean the ending of

freedom of movement. You know, he did say these things. People who

voted Labour, they were voting for this. There will be lots of reading

the tea leaves of what the Labour Party meant about Brexit in a place

where they needed votes. When you look to the future now, do you

think... UK's share of the vote is 2%. Does that sound like a rejection

of nasty Britain, or a Brexit but didn't like the language of

intolerance? In the last general election, 13% of the country voted

for a pro-Brexit party. This time it was 85%. That is the effect that

Ukip has had. The day before the election was called, three separate

opinion polls showed... You don't mind carrying on as a part of the

other party, is that what you were saying? That up to 70% of the

country wanted us to get on with Brexit. As far as Ukip is concerned,

if we don't get the Brexit we want, we will be backing Brexit with a big

way. The future of Theresa May, for the young people this has been a

rejection of tabloid headlines, anti-media. What is your take on

where Theresa May lies now? Theresa May has to go. She's done. She's

done politically, she has no vision for this country but has compelled

anybody. You've got a Labour Party that is reinvigorated, and more

importantly a labour movement which is reinvigorated. It's engaging the

young, the old, the day, the straight, the black, white, and

brown, and all the colours in between. All of what Ukip but

uncomfortable with? I think that's Theresa May in the end will go.

Corbyn looked comfortable in his own skin. There was energy from the

moment he launched the manifesto. I said, wow. Theresa May had none of

the. This'll be a seminal moment in our history, as we said Brexit was.

Where do you think this will take us? We want someone who actually

does embody a sense of the national interest. It comes out of Theresa

May's mouth of a robotic mantra. You cannot possibly have someone as

incompetent, spectacularly incompetent as Theresa May has

proven herself going forward to the negotiations for Brexit. You might

as well pick someone at random out of the Yellow Pages. They would be

better than her! Do you think... The other problem is, she doesn't

believe it. So you all agreeing for all areas of the spectrum that

Theresa May has got to go? Doesn't this just show you how fickle the UK

imagination all electorate is? When she went to the polls in April, she

thought she was going to come back with a massive majority. The British

electorate, God bless it, Sastre her out. She got found out, and her

managers got found out, and politics, the machine, got found

out. She has been an invisible PM since she came to office. She has

been issuing legislation through decree when the British public got

to see her face to face, they didn't like it and went another way. Thank

you all very much indeed, that's all we have time for this evening.

We're back on Monday at our usual time.

MUSIC: Power by Kanye West

# No one man should have all that power... #

There's nothing more Machiavellian...

I am disgusted at the way this has been presented.