12/06/2017 Newsnight

There was some careful manoeuvring in Downing Street today,

Maybe you can stay, but something'll have to change.

And we're not just talking about the cats.

Yes - after the Tories fall to earth, everything is up in the air.

What of their manifesto and of their Brexit will remain -

and what will leave, as hung parliament politics bites?

Some MPs hoping for a benign Brexit are pinning their hopes

on an unlikely alliance at Westminster.

-- others of course say that the referendum was definitive.

In no way does this election mean an opportunity to somehow go behind

that referendum result, and somehow turn the tables

Is it soft or hard, or something in between?

We'll hear from a prominent Brexiteer and Remainer.

France's President Macron has a new party, and it seems to be

dominating French politics - at the expense of the socialists.

What are the lessons for us, and the implications for Europe?

And Katie Razzall has gone back to the very start

of Theresa May's campaign, to find out just what went

Do you feel that you were very instrumental in what's

I feel like we've caused it, because we've gone from having such

a small turnout amongst 18-24-year-olds to

For better or worse, hung parliaments offer an excuse

to parties to jettison the difficult promises made in their manifesto.

We saw that in the Tory-Lib Dem coalition of 2010.

We're seeing the Tories prune away bits of their manifesto now,

But the really big question hanging over Westminster is whether our hung

parliament means the Tories will change their much

It was set out in a speech in January, in a White Paper

in February, and in a letter to the EU in March -

The vision was not much debated in the election,

but it's hard to say it got an uproarious thumbs

And most MPs want a more flexible Brexit, including possibly the DUP.

Our political editor Nick Watt is here.

An important political Bay, Nick, as everyone gets over the result. Take

us through the events of the day. She convened at political Cabinet

today ahead of a meeting of the govern -- Government Cabinet

tomorrow. Keeping with the same spirit of those Cabinet

appointments, mainly confirming the same people in the same places, and

when there is a vacancy achieving a balance between Bremainers and

Leavers. Then the 1922 committee of MPs, as she recovered some, but by

no means all, for a authority by apology for the election setback,

saying "I got us into this mess, I will get us out of it." I have to

say that went down well. She seems to have had a good day, stabilise

things took a bit. To what extent is the support she is getting just

because everybody is very tired and we want to get on with things? And

how really durable is it, do you think? At the risk of sounding like

an old veteran, I have to say I can spot a fake support by politicians,

and I was outside the committee meeting today when the Prime

Minister came out then the MPs came out, and MPs genuinely thought she

had done a good job by showing contrition and then pledging to

govern in a more open way. Interestingly, one minister told me

he thought the Prime Minister had been impressive and funny, but then

this minister said, "Why didn't we see that side of her during the

election? " so she has bought herself time to start the Brexit

negotiations and possibly to see them through, but every Tory I spoke

to will not budge on this fundamental point. Theresa May

cannot lead the Conservative Party into the next general election. But

the big question really, as you were saying, where does this all leave

Brexit? This is what I found out today...

A few short weeks ago, are hard Brexit seemed to be on the cards.

Now the voters have had their say, and, yes, a soft Brexit is coming

into view. Under Theresa May's original Brexit plan there would be

no halfway house, the UK would abandon membership of the Single

Market and most of the customs union. If Brussels tables

unreasonable demands, the UK would also be prepared to walk away

without a deal. Downing Street insists there is no change to its

plan. But the Prime Minister Renaud has to take account of the new

factors. A contingent of 13 Scottish MPs, whose leader Ruth Davidson is

calling for an open Brexit, the Tories' DUP partners who want a

frictionless border in Ireland, and a rejuvenated Labour Party who is

now talking about remaining in a reformed single market and Customs

union. Ruth Davidson told the Prime Minister and the Government must

push for what she called an open Brexit. I'm suggesting the

Conservative Party works with those both within the House of Commons and

indeed with people without, to ensure that as we leave the EU we

have a Brexit that works with the economy and put that first, and I

think there was a real sense around the Cabinet table today that, as you

would expect, from centre-right politicians, that is the primacy we

are looking for. And the leader of the Scottish Tories also believes

the party should be reaching out across the spectrum on Brexit.

Labour agrees, and now appears able to water down no suggestion the UK

would be able to leave the Single Market. We want something that works

for Britain, for our businesses and communities. That means, as we have

said, the benefits of the Single Market and the customs union. That

is low or no tariffs, no customs barriers, and alignment of

regulations. How that is achieved as part of this negotiation but the

criticism of the Government is that it took all those options of Mike

the table. I'm reformed membership of the Single Market without any

change at all is not compatible with leaving EU -- I'm

this Arlene Foster, leader of the DUP, is due to meet the Prime

Minister tomorrow, to buy to make an arrangement to sustain the Tories in

office. A number of Cabinet ministers are reportedly saying in

private that the DUP, which is to the right on social issues, may

provide them with cover to push for a softer Brexit. This Tory told me

some ministers who have been wary of talking out on Brexit believe the

DUP will give them a chance to slip through something more palatable to

them. The DUP takes a pragmatic approach, in terms of its dealings

with the Irish Republic, so they want unfettered trade, they don't

want tariffs on goods across the border, and they don't want a hard

border. The DUP position is helpful to the Conservatives in terms of

managing Brexit. I think previously what the position was that the

reddish Government would work with Irish government in a soft Brexit --

the British Government would work with the Irish government on a soft

Brexit, but now they have the DUP on board in terms of managing a softer

Brexit. DUP sources told Newsnight they have no quibble with the Prime

Minister's original Brexit plan, and leading Tory Brexit figures are

confident their vision is safe. We have 85% of the electorate voting

for Brexit supporting parties and for me that vote of confidence in

the direction of travel Theresa May is taking us in when it comes to

honour that. In no way does this election mean an opportunity to

somehow go behind that referendum result and somehow turn the tables

on the British people, because that would be completely wrong. Britain's

political landscape has been transformed by the surprise result

of the snap general election. Pro-Europeans are hoping a hard

Brexit will be the first victim, but Leave campaigners believe they still

retain trump cards. Nick Watt. Well, there is a live and lively

debate going on inside the Tory Parliamentary Party,

but it's not one that they're that But let's discuss now with Tory MEP

Daniel Hannan and Neil Carmichael, who was a Tory MP and a leading

proponent of a softer Brexit I will start if I made with Daniel

Hannan. I just want to examine Daniel Hannan's views at the moment.

Mr Hannan, a lot of people looking for compromises and a slightly

softer Brexit. I just want to ask, would it be acceptable to you if

that's part of this we left the Single Market but stayed in the

customs union so they did not need to be a border between the north and

south of Ireland, car companies could trade back and forwards across

the border? I think that would be a very bizarre way of interpreting and

open Brexit. Open Brexit by all means means maximising our trade

links with the rest of the EU, but it also means being able to trade

with the rest of the world. Now, even the EFTA countries, Norway and

Switzerland and so on, they have partial membership of the Single

Market, but even they are outside the customs union, and so they are

able to sign free arrangements with China, Japan, and the growing

economies, and if we are looking to long term that is where we need to

be. A lot of people have ruled out being in the Single Market. The

second best for those people as being in the customs union. Is that

something you could swallow... I can see you don't think it is a good

idea and would rather it wasn't, but could you swallow it as an idea? To

be honest I think some of those people are just grabbing the

totemically at things. I've never really got this idea that the whole

country is divided down the middle. Leavers and Bremainers our

compatriots who want the best. I think we agree whether we voted left

remain, we want military arrangements, commercial

arrangements, we want that with our allies, we want to keep those bits

of the current deal working, and that could include EU programmes,

and I don't think anyone is against that in principle, but we want to do

it on the basis of getting the best possible deal for us, and frankly

that means... Getting the best possible deal, yes, everyone agrees

with that. So you would not buy the customs union. Is there any

flexibility in your mind about the jurisdiction of the European Court

of justice, the ECJ? It may be helpful in the negotiation to say

that ECJ, this European Court, can govern our aviation agreements, or

for example could govern the nuclear materials? Is that something you

could tolerate or accept at all? The EU doesn't do that with any other

non-EU member state. Could you tolerate it, could you... Is that

Kaymer? Why would we go in wanting a worse deal than Switzerland, Norway,

Serbia, every other European country. That would be a bizarre

position the way you can get around that issue and make it work to the

advantage of both sides, is to do what the Swiss have done. To say,

you'll have your court, will have hours. Where there is a plain

interest in the same policy are harmonised outcome, we will simply

do that through a bilateral treaty, so we will not be inviting foreign

jurisdiction but the outcome will be the same. The Swiss have replicated

85-90% of the contents of the Single Market, including the real big one,

the discrimination on goods or services on threads of origin, but

they do that by bilateral treaties and domestic legislation. You are

veering towards the Swiss option but by and large are not sounding very

compromising. Do you think Theresa May, with no parliamentary majority,

should for example reach out to the other political parties, reach out

to Labour and even the Liberal Democrats and say, look, let's see

if we can foster a Brexit that's its 85% of the voters of this country,

because we got 85% of the voters in this election? Do you think she

could do that or she should only do that if we all agree to do it on her

terms? No, I do think we should be reaching out. I have said ever since

the vote, it was a 48-52 vote, not a mandate for severing all your links.

That is a mandate for a phased gradual repatriation of power. We

will end up with a deal that is almost by definition... It will go

too far for some people and not far enough for others, but we should aim

for a deal all sides can at least live with and I think that will mean

keeping a lot of the current links we have with the EU were those

working, but what people have been calling the Brexit option, the EFTA

tape option, even that leaves us with our farms, fisheries, defence

policy, and I think we can do better than that, but even that is clearly

becoming sovereign and having our own jurisdiction. Nobody is

seriously suggesting we should have ECJ ruling is still telling us what

to do when we have left. Thank you for that. Neil Carmichael, let me

talk to you. What is your favourite option at this point? How would you

like Theresa May's Brexit to change? First of all we voted to leave the

European Union, so what I am about to say does not question that, but I

think we need to be more realistic in the way in which we go forward,

and going towards it softer Brexit is clearly an object of mine and of

many, because we need proper trade relationships and we need to have

those... Do you accept free movement of people has two go? Many have said

that as the starting assumption for all of this, do you buy that?

If you take the university sector, that wouldn't be helpful for

existing students or members of staff from the EU in our country.

That is a sort of thing we have to think about. Free movement is a bit

like pregnancy, you have it or you don't, do you believe in free

movement or acts that has to go? I accept the country has voted against

free movement. So the Norway option is out because the Norway option has

free movement? It has free movement but I don't think we need to rule

out the Norway option just because of that reason. I think there are

other things... Are you hoping the EU will offer us some other

concession on free movement that allows us something close to the

Norway option? Yes, I think that's the direction we should be going in.

I hear from business increasingly that is the preferred option. The

only thing they've ever said is if you wannabe in the single market,

you have to have free movement. People have been saying in the last

few days, maybe they'll give us an emergency brake and the Norway

option. You would love that? I would, but your clip talking about

the DUP raised the issue about the border and how the attitude of the

DUP might be different with the Brexiteers. Do you think, if you'd

been in Parliament, and there are a few like you in the Conservative

Party, and some who are not as extreme as you. I'm not normally

described as extreme! Enthusiastic. Would you use parliamentary muscle,

because basically you'd always have a balance of power, would you use

parliamentary muscle to humiliate your own government to soften

Brexit? I think what we should be doing is reaching out to other

political parties and other stakeholders, because we have to

understand that this is not just an objective of hard Brexiteers. This

is a wider question and it needs to be dealt with in a wider way. I

understand that, but would you vote against, you know, important motions

of your government to soften the Brexit? You voted for Article 50. I

did. There will be lots of legislation, rip your bills and

suchlike, would you vote, use your parliamentary muscle and you'd have

more if you were in Westminster because there is a very small

majority. I think that leverage that is now available to colleagues of

mine and DUP and so on is much higher than before. So yes, there is

potential here, but we're not talking about voting against the

government essentially. What we are trying to do here is have a serious

discussion about moving the agenda away from purely a hard Brexit

towards something more reasonable. Last one, you lost your seat on

Thursday. I did. It was a seat that was considered Remainer. Do you

think Theresa May's Brexit lost youth vote? I think I lost the vote

for a number of reasons, one of them was the manifesto on one of them is

holding the general election at all on one of them indeed was Brexit. I

think the public generally were looking at the situation and

painting us as basically obsessed with Brexit and a hard Brexit. A lot

of people in my constituency certainly didn't want that. They

were not willing to attach their vote to my party and therefore to

give it to me. I think that was a real difficulty during the general

election, for a lot of my colleagues. Neil Carmichael and

Daniel Hannan, thank you very much indeed.

So, there was another election this week, in France.

With Emmanuel Macron now comfortably ensconced as president there,

his new political party is fighting elections for the National

Assembly, and in the first round, they did well.

It's evidence by the way that traction matters in politics -

Macron's success in one election seems to have bolstered his

In fact, his La Republique en Marche party is set to get three-quarters

of the seats in the assembly - the kind of majority it once looked

It's been an extraordinary year in France, for reasons very

different to those preoccupying us here.

He only became President last month - the youngest leader in the G7.

His party didn't exist 18 months ago.

But here's the astonishing map of the leaders in each area

in yesterday's election - Macron's party is in orange.

And in blue, Macron's nemesis, the Front National.

It had the reverse experience, finding that failure

begets more failure - 13% of the vote yesterday.

And most striking, the Socialist Party -

In Macron's favour is a perception he's been doing quite well.

He's had the firmest grip on how to deal with Donald Trump.

He's also the man who's spoken gay rights to Putin in public.

For now, Macron is the man with momentum, and he's using it

to try and rebuild the French alliance with Germany; the one that

allowed France to dominate the EU for all those years,

Now, let's not exaggerate - Macron's liberal globalism

is not to everyone's taste in France at all.

And this is just the first round of two.

But what does Macron's dominance of French politics

tell us about Brexit, and the UK?

I'm joined by Gideon Rachman of the Financial Times and Pauline Bock

Pauline, why is the guy doing so well do you think? Well, he has done

a very good campaign, and to be fair it's not like he's done so well

rather than the others have done quite terribly. He defeated Marine

le Pen, was seen as his biggest opponent during the campaign. This

socialists are in total disarray, they were the ones in government

with Francois Hollande. The won a majority in the Parliament as well,

in 2012, and yesterday they lost, they won only 7% of the vote. They

will lose 200 seats, the sort of thing that you think in a

parliamentary election can't happen. It can apparently, and it does. The

others are not doing so well either, on the left as well. Is that because

the left are split between men and shone on the other side. It probably

is. Mellon shone was the hard left handed and they never reached an

accord, they tried several times but it didn't work. If you add up both

their percentages you could have... Could have had one in the second

round. Could have. The Financial Times likes Macron, did you regret

we don't have one here? It was pretty remarkable for the whole

British self-image. We've seen France as in terrible political

disarray and Britain pretty solid and centrist for a number of years

and now it has flipped. They have a kind of Blairite as their president,

sweeping all before him, as Blair did in 2007, and our politics is

spinning off to the far left and Brexit right. Let's talk about

Europe. The Macron vision is terribly pro-European. One wonders

if the French will stomach is integration, his view of the world.

Sure, there's a long history of French scepticism as well. Macron on

the night he was elected marched out onto the side to the European

anthem, not the French anthem. He is an integration West and I think he

feels he has the momentum behind him now. Unfortunately for Britain it is

quite important for him to demonstrate that leaving the EU,

which is what Marine le Pen seem to be flirting with, is a really bad

idea. So there's no way I think he's going to make it easy for Britain.

You are talking earlier about maybe we could move toward a soft exit. I

think Theresa May would love him to make a gesture tomorrow when they

meet, but I don't think he will give him anything. It's important for

domestic political purposes and for his vision of Europe that Brexit

fails. We always used to think of the French and German alliance as

the motor of the European Union, before we had the ten Eastern

European countries coming in and shifting the whole gravity away from

the rest. Do you think you can sell? Do you think he can rebuild it and

sell it to the French people? Yes, I think he can, I think he's already

doing that. As you said, he marched out to the European anthem. Did they

like that? They did, they make fun of it because that's what they do in

France but I think their date -- they did. There has been some

scepticism in France, but we have the euro, we have the Borders. I

come from the country of three borders, Luxembourg, France and

Germany, so it doesn't work the same way, it's not just Britain on its

island. Because of that he can work with that and he's already doing

that. During his campaign he met with Angela Merkel in Berlin. The

person from his team who made this meeting possible is now Minister of

defence. She is fluent in German. His Prime Minister is also fluent in

German. His death will be sending messages to Germany. -- he's

definitely sending messages to Germany. Bad for Brexit. Why? One of

the arguments going round was Macron's has won, the Front National

has been defeated, they don't have to worry about populism on the

continent any more, so they don't have to punish Britain for leaving

the EU, they can be more relaxed. You are arguing the opposite? I

think it Macron takes a long-term view you cannot assume all those

Eurosceptic forces are dead for ever. He has to prove Brexit is a

bad idea. Equally, if he wants to push for a more integration with

Stewart, Britain has been a brake on that, it's been a bore. The Brits

being out makes it much easier to go to Berlin and say, let's get that

Franco German partnership working together again and go for it. I

think there are questions about whether in the long run the Germans

really will make the moves Macron wants, decree on the transferred

union, transferring money around the EU. I think they are still pretty

hesitant about that. But it is probably his best chance, now, to

get it done. We will leave it there. Thank you both very much.

Four theories as to why the Tories slipped back last Thursday.

One, youthquake - Corbyn engaged the young.

Two, Remainer revenge - pro-EU voters turned away

Three, the populist uprising continues -

disgruntled voters saw Corbyn as the change

candidate this time, and turned to him.

And four, Wooden Theresa - the Prime Minister failed

to come across as human, and voters tend to prefer humans

You'll have your own theories, but Katie Razzall has been

to Bolton to fund out more, a town where the Tories once

A strong and stable leadership, a strong and stable government.

The strong and stable leadership this country needs.

That mantra had its first outing in the church where Theresa May

It was a clear statement that she would take her fight

deep into Labour seats, deep into enemy territory.

That was seven long weeks ago, and back then the expectation

was they'd win big, taking seats off Labour like this one.

But on Thursday, that just didn't happen -

It's marathon day in Bolton North East.

This was just one of the Labour seats that failed to turn

blue in the landslide that never happened.

None of the forecasts were as bleak as this.

It was hard to find Bolton voters who'd been impressed.

It was a disaster, from start to finish.

From starting off in Bolton, and in Bolton North East a Labour

I think it summed up, that's kind of the perfect

metaphor for her campaign, it was completely misguided,

it was completely based on some sort of wild fantasy she had in her head.

Senior Tories in Bolton told us the fiasco over social care really

hurt their campaign, but for these runners getting

ready out of the rain, there were other factors

I was going to do Conservative, like I have done before,

but then after sitting down with my children and they looked

online and they did a poll and they did some other things,

they both decided that they both wanted to do Labour and I thought,

well, it's the children's future now, so I'll put my vote for them.

One of the stories of the campaign was the youth vote,

We don't know how many influenced their parents,

but we do know here they voted in high numbers.

Do you feel that you were very instrumental in what

I feel like we've caused it, because we've gone from having such

a small turnout amongst 18-24-year-olds to

Emily, Charlie, Dylan and Jude are 18 and at Turton high school.

All of them voted Labour and encouraged others to do the same.

I feel like a lot of posts and stuff made on Facebook,

a lot of them more quite comedic, which I feel like it kind

of resonated with the youth, it put it on a personal level,

I think we just wanted to show the rest of the country that we do

We are interested, we're not just going to sit back and let you,

who have had your years to do what you like the country, we're not

Because they don't think that young people are going to turn out

and vote, and I think by encouraging people to go and cast a vote,

I think you're challenging that and showing people that young people

aren't just this sort of this apathetic, silent body that

There was this kind of, oh they'll never turn out,

there's no point even appealing to them, because

And this shows that we do, if you actually offer us something

that, if you actually offer us a good deal.

This is Breightmet in Bolton North East.

The Conservatives expected Ukip voters in places

like this to move to them, but instead Tory councillor

John Walsh saw a late surge of young Labour voters

Their own Ukip surge never materialised.

Many of those who voted Ukip were the salt of the earth,

working-class, hard-working Bolton families.

They were not natural Conservatives, they were in large numbers of Labour

supporters who heard an attractive message from Jeremy Corbyn.

So Corbyn outplayed the Conservatives?

In that sense, yes, his campaign outplayed them.

Is this the worst Conservative campaign you've seen?

I've got to say it probably was, and it probably

was because it was too long, because it went off into many

different directions and we didn't have a focus throughout the campaign

It's gin fizz night at the Last Drop inn.

As the gin and champagne flowed, an explanation perhaps of why

the Tory wooing of Ukip voters didn't pay off from

I voted for him last time, and I voted for him in Brexit.

Because he's not available, I went back to Labour.

Because the Conservatives thought people like you might

Amongst voters here, Tory and non, nobody had a good word to say

All she had to do in this election, based on the lead that she had,

was just not be completely rubbish, and that's what she was.

No, but I think what they'll do is they'll probably form

a coalition if they can, and in 3-4 months, she'll be gone.

The Government misjudged the mood music during this campaign.

Two months ago they hoped a landslide would deliver them this

That strategy cost the Prime Minister dear.

Voters in Bolton, at least, now see turmoil and confusion,

Well, one of the central explanations for Labour's strong

performance last week has been the way in which Labour

and Mr Corbyn engaged younger voters and persuaded them to turn out

We've got three people who fit that description to delve deeper into why

this happened and whether it is now a permanent feature of our politics.

Abi Wilkinson is the professional commentator here, she

And Thorrun Govind, who is 24 and from Bolton,

, why did you vote? Europe Tory voter in the past? -- Thorrun, why

did you vote? Every day in my line of work I am seeing vulnerable

patients... You're a pharmacist by profession? Yes, we're helping

patients but the Government is not helping them and this was a real

vote NHS election for me. So it is about austerity and public services.

About the NHS. Eve, you haven't voted before so we can't say you are

Tory, used to be a Tory. Why did you vote for Jeremy Corbyn? Gave me

hope, compared to every other party who campaigned and tried to get my

vote, it was definitely Jeremy Corbyn who targeted the youth,

targeted people like me, and said this could be your country. Have you

always been quite political, not political at all? Started around

when I was about 15, my mum always kept me in the loop, but it was

definitely Brexit that got me into the politics. Brexit engaged you and

you were a Remains a porter at the time? Yes. Abi, what about you? You

are Labour, so we can say you are especially prone carbon? Not at all.

The country is not working for everyone and has not been for a

while. Like Eve said, we need to fund public services, we need

opportunities. The whole thing, for me, this idea that the country can

get better, our future can be better. Than the past, because at

the moment it feels like we are in a state of decline, employment rights

getting eroded, housing getting more and more unaffordable, and I just

think Labour offered the chance of something better. Can out whether

you can think of something in the Corbyn campaign that really grabbed

you, align, speech? It was the manifesto, the promise to halt the

cuts to community pharmacy. At the moment it is a 20 minute walk for

most people to their community pharmacy and with what the

Conservatives have implement and it will be much further and it is the

hope they are giving me. And did you believe... Not asking this in

negatively but did you believe everything in the manifesto, that

the guy will deliver all of this? Because there was quite a lot of

spending in there, wasn't there? I don't trust any manifesto, but I

have to believe on these key issues like the NHS the Labour Party have

shown they understand these issues. Come on, Eve, what was the moment in

the campaign, the line, the speech you saw our inspired by? For the

many, not the view. That hit me quite hard, and I like -- not the

few. I like how he is trying to make spending there, with tax evasion,

trying to get corporate tax, trying to make people earning over ?80,000

pay their fair tax. He was a little bit equivocal about the EU... That

didn't put you off that? No, it didn't, personally, because it was

not as if David Cameron tried his very best. Abi, what moment in the

campaign, because often... I just wondered. It was the manifesto

launch, when I thought, oh, we could actually do it.

You know, I have always thought a Labour Government is better for the

country. I have always thought left of the Labour Party, that the Labour

Party had the solutions. I thought we needed a radical shake-up, but

then when the manifesto came out, I thought people would like this. With

the Corbyn thing, the same initials as Jesus Christ, JC, a bit of a

cult, and you have all given policy things, rather than Corbyn things.

Green Mackey does have a fan club, young people on social media, Jeremy

Corbyn, the absolute boy, he's a great guy dream act -- yes, he does

have a Fanclub. But undercutting that is the sense that things need

to change and it is possible to change things. He is not just a

figurehead. It is not just about him. This is about people who have

bold ideas and believe it is possible for things to get better,

and necessary. Eve, a lot of people have said to some extent, trying to

dismiss the durability of the kind of movement that has emerged, I

suppose, that it is all about student fees, and whoever throws

that at them, those that are the largest number of people, they win

the election. I think you will see, no, it is not about student fees,

but was it about student fees? My vote was not about student fees,

because I decided early on I would vote Labour, but he came out with

the student fees and it kind of sold it for me. And you believed it, that

they would get rid of student fees? I'm not saying they will not, but

you thought it was credible, before people have said that and not

delivered it. I was hesitant that it would happen in 2017, that early on.

Perhaps 2018, but I believed him. When he said he would scrap them

eventually. OK, now, the other interesting aspect of this, and this

sounds like a ghastly middle-aged man peering into the lives of

younger people and I hate this kind of thing, but will you get your

media from? Where you get your news from? What do you do? Is an all

social media? Are you reading newspapers, what kind of stuff are

you getting on social media? I am an avid tweeter all the time, mainly

about pharmacy but also about politics, and I think my Twitter

feed has changed recently. I was following a lot of pro-Tory feeds

and suddenly it has become all about Labour, and I think... There is

nothing beats a Sunday morning with a newspaper, but maybe I'm a bit

old-fashioned like that. All right, Eve, what do you do? No newspapers

for me. I don't read those kind of things. I am very much a social

media person. The Canary... I get a lot of social media news from

Twitter. Personally I don't trust this book. It is more of an old

person's kind of... When you see from Twitter, what do you mean? Is

it from... Clips from Newsnight, or wild unsourced allegation from

somebody? It is fact a lot of the time, stating facts, with links and

evidence behind it. Do you read it carefully? You don't just accept it?

I don't want a fact without evidence. I think one of the most

interesting things about this election is how much money the

Conservatives spent on social media, and how the Labour Party managed to

reach for more people with a fraction of the spending, just

because young people... And older people, they were so enthusiastic

about what they were offering they were sharing it, and showing their

friends. I think they spent ?2000 on their Facebook adverts, and reached

12.7 million people in the last week of Facebook adverts, whereas the

Tories spent ?1 million on Facebook and did not have the same reach.

Thank you. Last and really important question. Come the next election, do

you think that you and your peers will behave in the same way as you

did on this one, or do you think you will revert to the type, the

stereotype, not going out, perhaps not being quite as engaged, do you

think you will stick with it? I think Corbyn has created such a

wave. Even if he is not there? It depends who replaces him but he

himself has created such a way. Would you come back to the Tories? I

think I would have to consider the manifesto is and what they actually

deliver. We could still have another election yet. But you don't like

paying high taxes? I don't like paying high taxes but I don't want

to see people suffer and I don't want a return to the nasty party.

Thank you all very much. Now, in a story that was seemingly

designed for the great pun-machine that is Twitter,

we learned today that there will be no goats harmed in the writing

of the Queen's Speech. The parchment on which it is written

is called goats skin parchment but it turns out that is, in fact,

not made of the skin of goats. So whenever the speech takes place,

there were at least some celebrations ringing

out across the country. We want to be free to do

what we want to do, That's what we're going to do,

we're going to have a party.