13/06/2017 Newsnight


13/06/2017

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.


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Theresa May settles into her new life of endless haggling...

:00:00.:00:08.

With the the factions of her own party...

:00:09.:00:18.

The danger is that however much any government tries,

:00:19.:00:22.

they will not be seen to be impartial if they are locked

:00:23.:00:25.

into a Parliamentary deal at Westminster with one

:00:26.:00:26.

Oh, and not to mention the Europeans.

:00:27.:00:42.

We'd better brace ourselves for non-stop negotiation,

:00:43.:00:45.

but with a government on a wafer thin majority, and to make matters

:00:46.:00:48.

worse, a Brexit department in some disarray We'll ask if,

:00:49.:00:52.

out of the mess, a red, white and blue Brexit

:00:53.:00:54.

Meanwhile, this former Conservative minister says its time

:00:55.:01:02.

for his party to change its way, and its name.

:01:03.:01:08.

Also tonight, we might have taken out eyes off

:01:09.:01:10.

the troubles of President Trump, but his Attorney General

:01:11.:01:12.

Raise your right hand if you would, please.

:01:13.:01:16.

Did you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole

:01:17.:01:18.

truth and nothing but the truth, so

:01:19.:01:20.

We'll find out if the President should be worried.

:01:21.:01:25.

Stephen Smith on a new movie about Whitney Houston.

:01:26.:01:49.

So Theresa May is here to stay, for the time being.

:01:50.:01:53.

Which means she now has to wallow in the complexities

:01:54.:01:56.

Sorting out a deal with the DUP for stability at home,

:01:57.:02:03.

and sorting out a position with the EU on Brexit.

:02:04.:02:04.

As she said yesterday, she got her party into this mess,

:02:05.:02:07.

The DUP deal is almost done, but not signed yet.

:02:08.:02:12.

The Brexit one is a great deal more complicated,

:02:13.:02:17.

and with days to go until the formal start, the department for exiting

:02:18.:02:20.

the EU, DexEU to its friends, is being reshuffled -

:02:21.:02:23.

Is it too strong to use the word disarray?

:02:24.:02:30.

Well, Theresa May sat down for dinner and a bit

:02:31.:02:32.

of football this evening, with President Macron of France.

:02:33.:02:36.

We'll take stock shortly, but first David Grossman looks

:02:37.:02:38.

The tourist snapping landmarks might conclude our democratic institutions

:02:39.:02:56.

are in imminent danger of collapse. The government is certainly in

:02:57.:03:01.

urgent need propping up. From who? This happy band, it appears. They

:03:02.:03:06.

may be few but their smiles tell you how important they know they are.

:03:07.:03:10.

Agreement was not sealed today but we are clearly heading that way. The

:03:11.:03:15.

DUP, will support the government in return for what? I'm not going to

:03:16.:03:20.

negotiate over the airwaves but there has been a lot of commentary

:03:21.:03:23.

around the issues we are talking about and it will not surprise

:03:24.:03:26.

anybody we are talking about matters that pertain to the nation

:03:27.:03:30.

generally, ringing stability to the UK Government in and around issues

:03:31.:03:37.

around Brexit, obviously around counterterrorism and doing what is

:03:38.:03:40.

right for Northern Ireland in respect to economic matters. To date

:03:41.:03:44.

one of the architect of the peace process warned Theresa May against

:03:45.:03:51.

the DUP deal. I understand what she wishes to shore up her parliament to

:03:52.:03:54.

position, that is understandable and I sympathise but, but, my main

:03:55.:04:00.

concern certainly if the peace process. A fundamental part about

:04:01.:04:07.

peace process is that the UK Government needs to be impartial

:04:08.:04:11.

between all the competing interests in Northern Ireland. Colonel Bob

:04:12.:04:16.

Stewart did seven tours of duty in Northern Ireland as an infantry

:04:17.:04:19.

officer and is now a Conservative MP and the insists there is nothing to

:04:20.:04:24.

fear from a deal with the DUP. What is motivating them is the thought

:04:25.:04:28.

that if the Conservatives are not in power in the mainland, Jeremy

:04:29.:04:32.

Corbyn, who actually gave succour to the provisional IRA, succour, when I

:04:33.:04:40.

was on the ground in Northern Ireland watching my soldiers

:04:41.:04:43.

fighting and losing their lives, they don't want that under any

:04:44.:04:48.

circumstances whatsoever. The Prime Minister did face the Commons today

:04:49.:04:52.

which was mostly engaged in re-electing the Speaker unopposed.

:04:53.:04:58.

Few of other self-conscious joke. Mr Speaker elect on behalf of the whole

:04:59.:05:01.

house, May I congratulate you on your re-election. At least somebody

:05:02.:05:11.

got a landslide! Mr Speaker, it is customary on these occasions to

:05:12.:05:14.

congratulate the returning Prime Minister and I absolutely do so and

:05:15.:05:18.

I congratulate her on returning and I'm sure she will agree with me that

:05:19.:05:23.

democracy is a wondrous thing and can throw up some very unexpected

:05:24.:05:28.

results. What is no laughing matter of course are the Brexit

:05:29.:05:31.

negotiations which will start, the government insists, on schedule next

:05:32.:05:36.

Monday. But the government department charged with running them

:05:37.:05:40.

is currently undergoing major renovations. The Secretary of State,

:05:41.:05:47.

David Davis, still sits atop the Department for accepting the EU but

:05:48.:05:51.

below him it is all change. The reshuffle as seen in the departure

:05:52.:05:58.

of both Lord Bridges and David Jones from ministerial office. They have

:05:59.:06:03.

been replaced by Steve Baker and Baroness Joyce and Elaine who joined

:06:04.:06:08.

junior Mr Robin Walker. With negotiations due to start in less

:06:09.:06:11.

than a week you have the departure of these ministers makes a difficult

:06:12.:06:14.

job even more difficult and the new ministers will need to come in and

:06:15.:06:19.

get up to speed quickly. They will need to build volition chips and

:06:20.:06:24.

companies across the department and government. Mrs May's they did not

:06:25.:06:28.

get much better with a visit to Paris to meet the new French

:06:29.:06:33.

president. Two leaders whom fortune has treated so differently. One with

:06:34.:06:37.

a landslide at his feet and the wind at his back and the other... After

:06:38.:06:45.

the election there are those in Mrs May's party who hope that Brexit

:06:46.:06:50.

might now be averted but the French president gave them some very

:06:51.:06:53.

carefully worded encouragement. TRANSLATION: A of course the door

:06:54.:07:00.

remains always open until the negotiations come to an end but that

:07:01.:07:03.

said, a sovereign decision was taken by the British people and that is to

:07:04.:07:07.

come out of the European Union and I very much respect the decision taken

:07:08.:07:10.

by the people, be it by the French people ought the British people. By

:07:11.:07:18.

tomorrow Mrs May should get a formal offer of support she needs to prop

:07:19.:07:22.

up a government but that is really only the beginning of her problems.

:07:23.:07:25.

Nick Watt is our Political Editor and Helen Thomas

:07:26.:07:28.

We have things to discuss. Starting with the DUP, that have been going

:07:29.:07:38.

on a few days, we thought we would get it signed today, what is

:07:39.:07:42.

happening? Theresa May and Arlene Foster are inching towards what will

:07:43.:07:46.

be known as a supply and confidence deal with the DUP supplying and

:07:47.:07:55.

confidence means supporting the Tories on boats and crucially the

:07:56.:07:57.

Queen's speech and that will allow the government to pursue it

:07:58.:07:59.

legislative agenda pulls up but -- but crucially it triggers the

:08:00.:08:07.

terms of the fixed in Parliament act and that means the parliament is

:08:08.:08:11.

then locked for five years and let you go through the very contradicted

:08:12.:08:16.

procedure of unlocking that and that means the DUP and the Tories have

:08:17.:08:19.

what they want, the Tories fear another election under Jeremy Corbyn

:08:20.:08:25.

and the DUP don't want the idea of a Jeremy Corbyn premiership. What this

:08:26.:08:28.

beat is that it looks very unlikely even if there is a deal tomorrow

:08:29.:08:32.

that the original date of the Queen's speech will be agreed for

:08:33.:08:37.

next Monday, it is down to the ink drying on the goat skin parchment

:08:38.:08:41.

paper! A lot of talk we might go to the next slot which is Tuesday the

:08:42.:08:47.

27th of June but we will get clarification on the date when we

:08:48.:08:50.

get the deal. One clarification we do have is that the DUP and the

:08:51.:08:54.

primers that agree that Brexit talks start next week. Peshmerga and the

:08:55.:08:56.

Prime And there is not -- and the Prime

:08:57.:09:06.

Minister. Let's talk about Brexit because we have these extraordinary

:09:07.:09:10.

goings-on at the Brexit department with more change than you might

:09:11.:09:14.

ideally want a week before negotiations start. They have lost

:09:15.:09:20.

50% of its ministers which is only two. Intriguingly, as you saw, one

:09:21.:09:25.

of the appointment is Steve Baker. He has been the convener of the main

:09:26.:09:31.

Brexit group which is the European research group he runs the what's up

:09:32.:09:35.

group that basically instruct the Brexit supporting MPs what to do and

:09:36.:09:39.

say but we have an intervention by David Cameron tonight who has told a

:09:40.:09:43.

conference in Poland that the results of the general election will

:09:44.:09:48.

lead to pressure for a soft the Brexit and the FT cites him as a new

:09:49.:09:55.

player on the stage. The 12 new Scottish MPs and is also called on

:09:56.:10:00.

Theresa May to insult other political parties on Brexit. These

:10:01.:10:03.

sort of interventions are being heard in the EU. A Manuel said today

:10:04.:10:09.

there is still time for the UK to have a rethink and you could come

:10:10.:10:13.

back in until Article 50 is triggered and that has also been

:10:14.:10:18.

said by the German finance minister. I wonder if they would let us keep

:10:19.:10:23.

the budget rebate! Maybe we would end up paying... If you did it

:10:24.:10:29.

before Article 50 ens, maybe, but it is within a treaty and that has to

:10:30.:10:33.

be agreed by everyone. Talking about some other aspects, everybody is

:10:34.:10:37.

watching the dynamics if they will be nice or not to us but there was a

:10:38.:10:43.

decision by the commission which gave a sense that cool heads are

:10:44.:10:48.

prevailing on the issue of Euro clearing. Clearing is a pretty

:10:49.:10:53.

unsexy but very important part of the plumbing of derivatives markets.

:10:54.:10:58.

Plymouth managed risk but if someone goes bust they make sure everybody

:10:59.:11:03.

gets paid -- clearers manage risk. London handles about three quarters

:11:04.:11:07.

of Euro clearing and that has been a long-standing issue for some of the

:11:08.:11:11.

more protectionist parts of Europe. The big fear was that the European

:11:12.:11:15.

Commission would say the game is over and you have the relocate to

:11:16.:11:20.

the continent. They didn't. They said the biggest clearing houses

:11:21.:11:26.

would need more regulation and be supervised by the EU effectively.

:11:27.:11:29.

London is OK with that, that is what the Americans do effectively because

:11:30.:11:34.

they also do dollar business. So they will be regular to institutions

:11:35.:11:39.

in London from Brussels. They would have some oversight of the clearers

:11:40.:11:42.

in London but there is a sting in the tail because the commission

:11:43.:11:48.

wants the power to relocate claiming further down the line if regulation

:11:49.:11:52.

is not working. It seems like regulators would make that call and

:11:53.:11:56.

not politicians but the fear is you put this in place and eventually

:11:57.:11:59.

somebody will figure out a way to use it. Thank you.

:12:00.:12:01.

Hilary Benn is the former chair of the Brexit Select Committee

:12:02.:12:03.

and is seeking re-election to that position.

:12:04.:12:09.

We can talk to him about the whole gamut of issues come up in the

:12:10.:12:17.

Brexit debate. You would rather have a Shadow Cabinet position than be

:12:18.:12:20.

chair of the select committee if it was offered? Shadow Cabinet

:12:21.:12:26.

positions are a matter for Jeremy but, assuming Labour if given the

:12:27.:12:30.

opportunity once again to chair the select committee, I will put myself

:12:31.:12:34.

forward by-election by the House of Commons because there is an

:12:35.:12:37.

important job that needs to be done particularly in the circumstances

:12:38.:12:41.

and the shambles we are in. Do you think it is odd there has been a

:12:42.:12:45.

ministerial changing of the guard at the Brexit department a week before

:12:46.:12:51.

negotiations? I think it is absolutely astonishing. Those

:12:52.:12:53.

ministers have been working very hard talking to lots of big and

:12:54.:12:56.

getting their head around the issues, the more you look, the more

:12:57.:13:00.

you realise there is to negotiate and less than a week before

:13:01.:13:03.

negotiations begin half the team disappears and two new people

:13:04.:13:07.

arrived and they have to read up at high speed. I should think of the

:13:08.:13:10.

European negotiators will wonder what we're doing. This is bad for

:13:11.:13:15.

Britain. What the election result has shown clearly is the idea of

:13:16.:13:20.

leaving the EU with no deal is now dead and buried. The big question is

:13:21.:13:25.

whether Theresa May now understand that it is definitely parliament

:13:26.:13:29.

that is going to decide the shape of the Brexit we will have. We have a

:13:30.:13:34.

white pepper which set out the objectives. I using that is dead or

:13:35.:13:42.

if that still alive -- White Paper? I think it is very important figures

:13:43.:13:45.

only a couple of days ago David Davis was still talking about being

:13:46.:13:49.

prepared to leave with no deal and that would be catastrophic as we

:13:50.:13:52.

showed when he appeared before the select committee any had to explain

:13:53.:13:55.

to us what the consequences would be. But in order to get effective

:13:56.:14:00.

scrutiny the government has had to be pushed and prodded all the way to

:14:01.:14:03.

accept the role of Parliament and I would like to see the select

:14:04.:14:06.

committee have a stronger role in its work, being able to receive

:14:07.:14:12.

regular reports from ministers, to call debate in Parliament to make it

:14:13.:14:16.

explicit that the, he is overseeing the negotiations on the half

:14:17.:14:19.

Parliament and not just the work of the Brexit, he.

:14:20.:14:26.

That sounds modest because we understand people including David

:14:27.:14:32.

Cameron are saying it would be a good idea to bring more parties and

:14:33.:14:38.

more people into this and build a Parliamentary consensus around what

:14:39.:14:41.

kind of Brexit we should have. William Hague this morning. Would

:14:42.:14:46.

that be your committee or a bigger thing? A range of things could be

:14:47.:14:52.

done, you could bring in business, unions and others. To consult on the

:14:53.:15:01.

process. You cannot have that, if it is too many people you cannot expect

:15:02.:15:06.

them to be involved in the nitty-gritty. I think there are a

:15:07.:15:10.

number of different options but in the end Parliament has a committee

:15:11.:15:14.

whose job it is to oversee that but also it will need to lead to changes

:15:15.:15:18.

in policy. Negotiations are taking place with the DUP and the DUP are

:15:19.:15:23.

clear that they do not want a return to a hard water and customs. The

:15:24.:15:31.

government is taking a risk saying we want to be out of the customs

:15:32.:15:35.

union but sort of in. They need to now revisit that decision and say if

:15:36.:15:40.

you want a guarantee for British business of tariff and barrier free

:15:41.:15:45.

trade and avoid problems in Northern Ireland, then the state in the

:15:46.:15:50.

customs union. Forego the right to sign new trade deals independently?

:15:51.:15:55.

The US is already our largest single trading market and trading goods

:15:56.:16:00.

with China has quadrupled in the past decade. Staying in the customs

:16:01.:16:04.

union, one we have all these people saying we want a softer Brexit,

:16:05.:16:10.

vaguely expressed, is that what it comes down to, when we hear people

:16:11.:16:15.

say soft Brexit is the debate inside the customs union or not? I think

:16:16.:16:21.

that is the first and clearly sensible step to take. The second

:16:22.:16:26.

issue will be what kind of access we have to the single market. But also

:16:27.:16:33.

cooperation on things like foreign policy, the fight against terrorism.

:16:34.:16:38.

That continued cooperation is essential to our security as we

:16:39.:16:42.

leave the EU. I need to talk to you but Jeremy Corbyn, he had a much

:16:43.:16:47.

better electoral success then you and most of your colleagues on the

:16:48.:16:51.

Labour backbenchers predicted. I'm interested in where you are at the

:16:52.:16:54.

moment because obviously you thought he would not do very well

:16:55.:16:58.

electorally but also did not think he was very good and I just wonder

:16:59.:17:02.

whether you still do not think he's very good. You will have had review

:17:03.:17:08.

your position on when he can get the button. But have you changed your

:17:09.:17:13.

mind about him? I thought he fought a brilliant campaign which

:17:14.:17:18.

influenced a lot of people with a message of hope rather than a

:17:19.:17:22.

message of fear like the Tories. There was a cheerful meeting of the

:17:23.:17:27.

Parliamentary Labour Party this evening in contrast to the last time

:17:28.:17:31.

before the election because many people, me included, got it wrong

:17:32.:17:36.

about his capacity to do that. And that is a great achievement. The

:17:37.:17:39.

task we have is to build on that because we need to broaden further

:17:40.:17:45.

our support. But his qualities as leader I suppose have not changed

:17:46.:17:49.

his appeal has changed or you have changed your view of it. What about

:17:50.:17:55.

leadership qualities? While the qualities he demonstrated during the

:17:56.:17:59.

campaign in the face of the attacks from the Conservatives, had a pretty

:18:00.:18:03.

hard time at the hands of the press and Jeremy Corbyn did not rise to

:18:04.:18:08.

that, he inspired people and brought young people and others who had not

:18:09.:18:12.

voted before out. We had many additional Labour MPs and it is a

:18:13.:18:17.

fantastic foundation to build on for the next election, which could come

:18:18.:18:19.

very soon indeed. Thank you. Corbyn was down in the polls,

:18:20.:18:21.

we all banged on about splits in the Labour Party,

:18:22.:18:25.

of which there were many. The arguments over Brexit are one

:18:26.:18:27.

thing, but there are other things Daily Mail Tories versus

:18:28.:18:31.

Financial Times ones. Blue collar versus toffs,

:18:32.:18:34.

fiscal Conservatives versus tax The great debate about

:18:35.:18:36.

what direction should In a moment, we'll talk to a senior

:18:37.:18:39.

Tory whose just been dropped from a government post by Theresa

:18:40.:18:43.

May. But first, we went out today

:18:44.:18:45.

to sample some views I'm Andrew Brian. Glenn Murray. I'm

:18:46.:19:09.

a conservative district council. Traditional Conservative supporter.

:19:10.:19:12.

I voted for the Conservative Party by postal vote.

:19:13.:19:22.

It does not seem like a strong basis for the future but I think she must

:19:23.:19:28.

do that for a period of time until we get through this current phase

:19:29.:19:31.

and hopefully things stabilise. She's a good advocate for the

:19:32.:19:36.

country, with a strong personality and very strong views. And would be

:19:37.:19:44.

a strong negotiator for Britain. I felt she should have taken up some

:19:45.:19:47.

of those TV programmes and showed her face on TV ad fought a corner.

:19:48.:19:54.

But she is a winner and will come through at the end of the day I am

:19:55.:19:58.

sure. I think they can work together. Most

:19:59.:20:05.

of the obvious issues around equality and things like that are

:20:06.:20:11.

just not relevant. Most of those are divorced. Their anti-abortion,

:20:12.:20:14.

anti-gay rights, anti-climate change at all these things which are quite

:20:15.:20:19.

important to be young voters. So that is not terribly appealing. But

:20:20.:20:25.

I guess if that is what is going to help the Conservatives stay in and

:20:26.:20:28.

what is going to be the strongest way for us to continue then I guess

:20:29.:20:34.

that is what shall be. It is only a temporary measure because once she

:20:35.:20:37.

gets her party back in full swing that will be the end to this

:20:38.:20:42.

conversation. You are optimistic customer very. I believe in Theresa

:20:43.:20:50.

May. I think Theresa May has big ideas on

:20:51.:20:57.

all these Brexit deals already whereas Jeremy Corbyn hasn't seemed

:20:58.:21:03.

to come forward with anything, he has no plans for Brexit. People tend

:21:04.:21:09.

to forget this is a great and prosperous country. In any walk of

:21:10.:21:12.

life people need to do business with us. I am a Remainer but

:21:13.:21:18.

fundamentally the UK voted to leave the EU and I believe we should

:21:19.:21:23.

follow that democratic mandate given by the people. I was never in favour

:21:24.:21:27.

of Brexit in the first place. For me the softer the better and I think

:21:28.:21:33.

clearly it is going to be a softer version of Brexit than whatever the

:21:34.:21:36.

previous one was. But we did not really understand anyway. The views

:21:37.:21:40.

of some Tory supporters there. Robert Halfon was Skills Minister

:21:41.:21:41.

until yesterday... He's written about the need for

:21:42.:21:43.

the Conservative Party to reform. What do you think went wrong with

:21:44.:21:53.

the campaign? I think we have a problem in terms of our message, our

:21:54.:21:57.

values and expressing most of the public. I think we have a problem in

:21:58.:22:02.

lack of membership. And also a problem in terms of our

:22:03.:22:06.

infrastructure. We did not get our message across about what we stand

:22:07.:22:11.

for. We are the party of aspiration and opportunity. We give people the

:22:12.:22:15.

chance to climb the ladder to get the security and prosperity we need.

:22:16.:22:20.

But none of that was put across and we frightened pensioners and

:22:21.:22:23.

frighten people about school meals. So we just did not get the core

:22:24.:22:28.

Conservative message across. You want the party to be clearer about

:22:29.:22:34.

being a party for working people. Is the problem that it did not get the

:22:35.:22:37.

message across or does the actual offer a need to be refined? I think

:22:38.:22:44.

it is both, fundamentally we need a rebranding and that is why I suggest

:22:45.:22:50.

we change our name to the workers party but it cannot just be a

:22:51.:22:54.

slogan, the Foreign Minister said we were the workers party at the party

:22:55.:22:57.

conference but we need to make it mean something. I think we have to

:22:58.:23:01.

actually build our policies based on five pillars, we should be a modern

:23:02.:23:07.

trade union movement for the British people, five pillars of workers'

:23:08.:23:12.

rights, jobs, skills, wages, welfare and services. Have you thought of

:23:13.:23:16.

joining the Labour Party because they aspire to all those things!

:23:17.:23:21.

They actually have Labour in the title as opposed to workers but more

:23:22.:23:25.

or less the same. The Labour Party want to do everything from the top

:23:26.:23:28.

down but I believe that the Conservative Party and our symbol

:23:29.:23:33.

should be the ladder I believe, not the tree, without the party the

:23:34.:23:38.

ladder. If you are poor will bring you to that ladder and we hold the

:23:39.:23:42.

ladder to get you out of poverty into work. If you are a young person

:23:43.:23:46.

we will offer an apprenticeship so that you can earn while you learn.

:23:47.:23:51.

You get a degree, an apprenticeship, you get a job at the end. My

:23:52.:23:57.

question about joining Labour was in serious because someone would call

:23:58.:24:02.

you perhaps a red Tory, and some in labour would be called blue Labour

:24:03.:24:05.

was quite a conservative view of the world. You could do a deal with

:24:06.:24:12.

those people, Maurice Glassman, the kind of blue thinker in the party.

:24:13.:24:16.

You could come up with a common platform. Of course in politics

:24:17.:24:20.

there are overlapping views and some people in the Labour Party I have

:24:21.:24:25.

huge respect for, Frank field and so on. But that is not the whole of the

:24:26.:24:30.

Labour Party especially under Jeremy Corbyn. They believe in everything

:24:31.:24:34.

from the top-down, unfunded spending commitments and I think we need to

:24:35.:24:39.

be a party for the workers but building on those five pillars as I

:24:40.:24:44.

described. In renaming Conservative Party the workers party or

:24:45.:24:47.

Conservative workers party, you would have as much chance of doing

:24:48.:24:52.

that is converting the Labour Party. The Prime Minister said at the

:24:53.:24:56.

conference that we were the workers party, we introduced the national

:24:57.:25:01.

living wage, we cut taxes for lower earners, we have 100,000

:25:02.:25:06.

apprenticeships offering potentially 3 million for millions across the

:25:07.:25:10.

country. Potentially there is something out there that we could be

:25:11.:25:13.

the true workers party of the country. But we must recognise

:25:14.:25:17.

public sector workers are as important as private sector for

:25:18.:25:22.

exam. Whatever is your party if you do not do that? I'm not saying I

:25:23.:25:28.

have the only answer but I thought about this for a long time. I have

:25:29.:25:33.

written about it months ago and gone run the country talking about it.

:25:34.:25:39.

But I believe the face parental calamity as a party because people

:25:40.:25:42.

see is just in terms of austerity and we failed to get our message

:25:43.:25:46.

across about being the party of the ladder of opportunity. And failed to

:25:47.:25:50.

get across the message that we are the party for the poor. When the

:25:51.:25:53.

Labour Party nor corridor everyone knows they're there the underdog,

:25:54.:25:58.

their message is clear. But our message is not. But Theresa May

:25:59.:26:04.

started out with much of this back when she became Prime Minister 11

:26:05.:26:08.

months ago and it has not happened. I doubt they're not listening to you

:26:09.:26:13.

or she is not capable of delivering this kind of vision, something is

:26:14.:26:19.

clearly going wrong. I was incredibly excited when the Prime

:26:20.:26:22.

Minister made that speech, the first speech she ever gave as Prime

:26:23.:26:26.

Minister. I thought potentially something really big was happening.

:26:27.:26:31.

For one reason or another some of this, not all of it but some has got

:26:32.:26:36.

lost. And I think the election has given us a clear lesson in this and

:26:37.:26:41.

that is why we have to reboot. Rebrand. But there has to be a base,

:26:42.:26:53.

basing all policies around what I call workers Charter. Do you think

:26:54.:26:56.

that a rather weak and Theresa May can do that. To be honest whether it

:26:57.:27:03.

was Alexander the great or Archangel Gabriel, as leader, unless we

:27:04.:27:06.

undertake these fundamental reforms and rebranding of the party, it does

:27:07.:27:12.

not matter about the media, it is about policies and values. And

:27:13.:27:15.

narrative. To reach out to the British people. Thank you very much.

:27:16.:27:19.

President Trump's embattled attorney-general, Jeff Sessions,

:27:20.:27:21.

has been taking questions - on oath - in front of

:27:22.:27:23.

the Senate Intelligence Committee, who are interested in the links

:27:24.:27:26.

between the Trump campaign and the Russian government.

:27:27.:27:28.

It's awkward for Mr Sessions - he failed to declare his own

:27:29.:27:32.

meetings with the Russian ambassador, and was involved

:27:33.:27:35.

in sacking the head of the FBI who was in charge

:27:36.:27:37.

Did he survive unscathed - and did the President?

:27:38.:27:42.

Mark Urban was watching the proceedings.

:27:43.:27:52.

The Senate intelligence committee is the tip of the spear as far

:27:53.:27:57.

as these investigations go and weekly their

:27:58.:28:00.

deliberations are growing broader and more complex.

:28:01.:28:06.

Today Attorney General Jeff Sessions was called.

:28:07.:28:12.

And he faced questions on the Trump campaign's links with Russia.

:28:13.:28:18.

Under intense scrutiny, his temper flared

:28:19.:28:23.

when asked about his possible ties with the Russians.

:28:24.:28:25.

There are none, Senator, there are none, I can

:28:26.:28:36.

tell you that for absolute certainty.

:28:37.:28:39.

This is the secret innuendo being leaked out there by

:28:40.:28:46.

-- about me and I don't appreciate it.

:28:47.:28:48.

Mr Sessions insisted that short meetings with the Russian ambassador

:28:49.:28:50.

had been inconsequential and entirely proper.

:28:51.:28:53.

I have never met with or had any conversation with

:28:54.:28:56.

any Russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of

:28:57.:29:02.

interference with any campaign or election in the United States.

:29:03.:29:05.

Added to the tension, the fact that President Trump's confidence in his

:29:06.:29:08.

Attorney General is, reportedly, failing.

:29:09.:29:14.

The president has not really spoken that much about that

:29:15.:29:20.

question, letting it hang out in the air, as have his aides.

:29:21.:29:22.

The Attorney General himself behind the scenes

:29:23.:29:25.

has been much more open about the fact that he knows that he has

:29:26.:29:30.

gotten into the President's crosshairs a little bit.

:29:31.:29:34.

As the Senate committee's inquiry has gone on, it

:29:35.:29:37.

has expanded to include allegations of cover-up by the White House and

:29:38.:29:40.

that led last week to evidence from former FBI

:29:41.:29:42.

director James Comey who

:29:43.:29:45.

painted a picture of how he felt the president may have tried to

:29:46.:29:48.

Talk for a moment about his request that you pledge loyalty.

:29:49.:29:56.

Our relationship did not get off to a great start, given the

:29:57.:29:58.

conversation I had to have on January the 6th.

:29:59.:30:01.

This was not, this did not improve the relationship

:30:02.:30:03.

He was asking for something and I was

:30:04.:30:07.

But again, I don't know him well enough to know

:30:08.:30:11.

But of course the president fired Mr Comey which means

:30:12.:30:22.

the committee has added Comey's sacking to the other matters

:30:23.:30:24.

under investigation, prompting many questions today that Jeff Sessions

:30:25.:30:26.

Did you ever discuss director Comey's FBI

:30:27.:30:34.

handling of the Russia investigations with the president or

:30:35.:30:36.

Senator, that would call for a communication between the

:30:37.:30:44.

Attorney General and the president and I'm not able to comment on that.

:30:45.:30:48.

You're not able to answer the question

:30:49.:30:55.

And with this process is ongoing and expanding,

:30:56.:31:00.

reports today that the president might even sack

:31:01.:31:02.

the special counsel, former FBI boss Robert Mueller, who

:31:03.:31:05.

They have left that out there either for the reasons that it

:31:06.:31:12.

may be true that the president is considering it or left it out there

:31:13.:31:24.

for reasons that it may be something with political advantage for them to

:31:25.:31:28.

It all comes back to this man of course.

:31:29.:31:31.

His Attorney General defended himself successfully today

:31:32.:31:33.

on the Russian ties issue but ultimately the questions for

:31:34.:31:35.

Professor Ryan Goodman is from at New York University School of Law

:31:36.:31:46.

he was general counsel at the defense department

:31:47.:31:48.

Then have long, what is the point on which you think Jeff Sessions and

:31:49.:32:06.

President Trump are now most vulnerable? -- we don't have long. I

:32:07.:32:12.

suppose that would be the firing of James Comey. That is not something

:32:13.:32:16.

that Jeff Sessions dealt with very well today. He refused to answer any

:32:17.:32:20.

questions like the one you heard as to whether or not the president ever

:32:21.:32:25.

referred to the Russia investigation as one of the reasons he wanted to

:32:26.:32:30.

fire Comey. Sessions refused to answer and he gave the reasons he

:32:31.:32:34.

thought to recommend firing Comey which did not seem very plausible in

:32:35.:32:39.

a certain sense. He referred to the fact that it was Comey's performance

:32:40.:32:46.

but under oppression he was asked if he was if you spoken to about his

:32:47.:32:50.

performance and he said no and Nicky Wroe down and evaluation of the

:32:51.:32:54.

performance and he said no. He did the reason he recommending the

:32:55.:32:57.

firing was because the handling of the Clinton e-mails. But under

:32:58.:33:04.

pressure from Senator Reid he was asked, during the campaign you

:33:05.:33:10.

actually praised Comey for how he handled Hillary Clinton's e-mails so

:33:11.:33:13.

it was a difficult moment for him and that is probably the most

:33:14.:33:17.

vulnerable spot right now for the president because it raises the

:33:18.:33:20.

spectre of obstruction of justice if the reason he fired the FBI director

:33:21.:33:25.

was to change the course of the Russia investigation. Politically,

:33:26.:33:29.

and I know that is not your beat, but is it getting too intricate for

:33:30.:33:32.

most people to follow a few said what and do you think people are

:33:33.:33:38.

beginning to glaze over as they hear the enquiries? I think that an

:33:39.:33:43.

excellent point and in some way to you now have Comey's test over

:33:44.:33:49.

several hours and Jeff Sessions' and people start dipping, he said, he

:33:50.:33:55.

said, how do they sorted out? And many of the commentators are getting

:33:56.:33:59.

into the weeds of exactly who said what and how they differentiate from

:34:00.:34:03.

one another. I think what will emerge is that the special Council

:34:04.:34:08.

is working, plodding away on the Russia investigation, and that will

:34:09.:34:11.

still continue. I think that will resurface after these two weeks of

:34:12.:34:20.

Comey and Sessions. You say he will continue, is that correct? Is there

:34:21.:34:23.

any way they can get rid of him or Trump can fire him or tell somebody

:34:24.:34:27.

to get rid of this turbulent priest or anything like that? Probably not.

:34:28.:34:34.

The person who gets to determine whether or not the special counsel

:34:35.:34:41.

should stay in his position as is the Deputy Attorney General

:34:42.:34:43.

Rosenstein who currently has jurisdiction over the special

:34:44.:34:46.

counsel and he also testified today and said he would never dismiss the

:34:47.:34:51.

special counsel except for a good cause and he can't imagine that

:34:52.:34:57.

would come up. There are other scenarios, because this is a dynamic

:34:58.:35:02.

situation for example what if Attorney General Sessions did step

:35:03.:35:07.

down and was replaced by somebody who had not recused? That new person

:35:08.:35:11.

would have jurisdiction over the special counsel so you have the gone

:35:12.:35:15.

public those kind of issues. Thank you very much.

:35:16.:35:17.

British film director Nick Broomfield, who can often be

:35:18.:35:20.

seen in his own documentaries wearing earphones and carrying

:35:21.:35:23.

a boom mic, has pursued subjects as diverse as Sarah Palin,

:35:24.:35:25.

death row prisoners and the late rock star Kurt Cobain.

:35:26.:35:29.

And he has a new film out this week concerning another rock and roll

:35:30.:35:33.

casualty: the prodigiously gifted singer Whitney Houston,

:35:34.:35:35.

who died of a drugs overdose five years ago aged just 48.

:35:36.:35:41.

- has been called uncompromising, and in making it

:35:42.:35:50.

Broomfield has spoken to the star's entourage,

:35:51.:35:52.

And he has now been talking to our culture editor, Stephen Smith.

:35:53.:35:56.

# Just remember it was you, you, you.

:35:57.:35:58.

The matchless larynx of pop superstar Whitney Houston.

:35:59.:36:12.

This is how her many fans remember her.

:36:13.:36:16.

She won Emmys, Grammys, and sold millions of records

:36:17.:36:18.

before her tragic early death following a drugs overdose.

:36:19.:36:24.

Whitney Houston obviously was a very iconic figure.

:36:25.:36:27.

And I think made a lot of people very happy.

:36:28.:36:37.

And was very severely criticised towards the end of her life.

:36:38.:36:40.

I thought it was a good time to have another look at her life and look

:36:41.:36:45.

at her achievements and who she was, who she is.

:36:46.:36:50.

Ironically, the singer emerges from Broomfield's film as the least

:36:51.:37:09.

That included her formidable mother and her self-styled bad boy

:37:10.:37:22.

Do you think you discovered who killed Whitney,

:37:23.:37:31.

I'd say probably we all killed Whitney.

:37:32.:37:43.

As the bodyguard in the film says, there is no one not to blame

:37:44.:37:47.

for the tragedy that happened to this wonderful, beautiful woman.

:37:48.:37:52.

Older viewers will recall Whitney Houston's turn opposite

:37:53.:37:59.

Well, I don't know, maybe a tough guy.

:38:00.:38:08.

In a striking case of life imitating art, Broomfield tracked down

:38:09.:38:19.

the singer's real bodyguard, a man called David Roberts.

:38:20.:38:24.

You know the bodyguard sent in, he talks extensively in the film,

:38:25.:38:27.

a very detailed report about what was going

:38:28.:38:29.

on and suggesting that certain people should be removed

:38:30.:38:31.

And instead of that happening, he was removed.

:38:32.:38:38.

To what degree the individuals concerned were on drugs.

:38:39.:38:46.

I put it down on paper, I got the telephone call in a meeting.

:38:47.:38:55.

Thank you very much, Miss Houston has decided she doesn't

:38:56.:39:00.

need anyone of your calibre and experience again because she's

:39:01.:39:03.

not touring internationally in the future.

:39:04.:39:06.

One of the problems we were having was getting enough time

:39:07.:39:09.

in the building because of health and safety regulations...

:39:10.:39:12.

Nick Broomfield hasn't been averse to putting himself on screen.

:39:13.:39:15.

Whether he's looking at dilapidated buildings for the BBC...

:39:16.:39:24.

Here he is talking to Dana, who co-owned the music...

:39:25.:39:27.

Or on the trail of the late rappers Tupac and Biggie

:39:28.:39:29.

We're going to see some wild animals.

:39:30.:39:55.

We are, we're going to see musk ox and reindeer and a dog sled.

:39:56.:39:59.

And they're alive, Sarah hasn't got to them yet!

:40:00.:40:01.

In an homage to his highly influential kind of meta-

:40:02.:40:06.

film-making, we thought we'd take you behind the scenes

:40:07.:40:08.

Well, that's why Broomfield has a handprint on Hollywood Boulevard

:40:09.:40:22.

and I'm on just before the very late weather.

:40:23.:40:28.

If Newsnight could afford you, and equipped you with the earphones

:40:29.:40:36.

and boom mic, what would you be running around scooping

:40:37.:40:39.

Where would you think the story is here?

:40:40.:40:42.

Well, I think it's very hard to cover galloping news.

:40:43.:40:44.

You know, documentaries are a reflective way

:40:45.:40:46.

You don't fancy the mad, adrenaline rush of 5am breakfasts...

:40:47.:40:50.

Perhaps she wouldn't be interesting to you?

:40:51.:40:57.

If you could get the first 100 days of either her or Donald Trump,

:40:58.:41:01.

I think it would be quite unbelievable because that

:41:02.:41:03.

discrepancy of, is this true, is this not true,

:41:04.:41:05.

is something that really keeps one absolutely riveted to the story.

:41:06.:41:08.

So I think they would be fascinating characters.

:41:09.:41:23.

Steven Smith talking to Nick Broomfield.

:41:24.:41:26.

That's all we've got time for this evening.

:41:27.:41:32.

Before we go, the BFI have just released 600 new films from the

:41:33.:41:38.

archive. Here is a taste. Good night.

:41:39.:41:40.

# Ease your feet off in the sea my darling.

:41:41.:41:43.

# Take your shoes off curl your toes.

:41:44.:41:46.

# Will stay with us till somebody decides to go.

:41:47.:41:56.

# Soberly, without regret, I make another sandwich.

:41:57.:42:13.

# I know that things have got to you.

:42:14.:42:19.

# You decide your time is wearing thin.

:42:20.:42:31.

# A conscious choice to let yourself go dangling...

:42:32.:42:42.

Hello, some summer warmth on the way for money tomorrow but we

:42:43.:42:43.

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