15/06/2017 Newsnight


15/06/2017

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark. The grief, anger and unanswered questions of the Grenfell Tower disaster.


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Who were they? Almost two days later we don't know the basic thing. What

:00:10.:00:37.

we do now is it will be more than the 17 officially counted. He tried

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to call his family back home in Syria. He said, the fire has reached

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me now. I am going to die. Tell my mum and my father, I love them.

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How was this building made into a literal death trap?

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How many more buildings like it are out there?

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The explosion might have happened at one o'clock,

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So in half an hour, 13 floors already on fire.

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There's to be a public inquiry, so we may not have proper answers

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How many different safety concerns have been bubbling under

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Group upon group have been lining up to tell the government

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that they need to make a review of building regulations and we've

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seen building regulations ministers time and time again saying,

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And the Prime Minister comes without cameras in tow but only

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Is this, like Hurricane Katrina, becoming a defining

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We'll ask the leader of Kensington and Chelsea council.

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To those of us who have not experienced the trauma

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that the residents and families of Grenfell Towers are suffering,

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their loss in unimaginable but we sense their rising anger

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that they were dealt a dreadful hand.

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They lived in a building which was quite simply, not safe.

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Repeated pleas by residents and warnings that something awful

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The burning building now charred against the blue sky,

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may come to symbolise the moment there was a shift in society,

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There are so many who have lost loved ones and seen things

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no-one should ever see, others who have survived

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with life changing injuries, and many who still await news.

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Let's get a sense of the mood on the ground.

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Joining us from West London is, Derek Wilson, pastor

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at the Christian Centre Trust Tabernacle, who has helped

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Good evening, Derek Wilson. Tonight, so many people are still missing

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their loved ones. Who is helping them tonight? I think what is

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happening, reality is beginning to set in. Really, there are no more

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survivors. At this time, there is a lot of frustration, a lot of anger

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of what has happens, that could have been prevented. And as you are

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saying, the realisation for many people that they will have lost

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members of their family and eagerness to find some information.

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Information we seem to be getting very, very slowly? Absolutely. It is

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shocking. What is more shocking is that this industry report that was

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released two years ago and was the council's notifier. It could have

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been prevented. It just fell on deaf ears and that is why you are getting

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the frustration and be anger at this time in the community. Do you think

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enough is being done by the council. I know there are so many emergency

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centres that have set up, your own church is one, is enough being done

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by the council? Well, this is what needs to be answered. There is some

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tough questions and some tough answers from this enquiry that needs

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to come out. What I mean tonight, pastor, is there enough council

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workers on the ground helping, or is it all volunteers? Is the council in

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control of the situation? Now there is, because where we have our

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church, the food and clothing are beginning to shift at this time. By

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tomorrow, I believe everything should be moved out of the buildings

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to a central place where those who need it, can get access to it. Are

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all the residents who have been saved from the tower, are they being

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housed locally, are they being looked after locally? They are still

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in temporary accommodation. They are in the Westway, the indoor tennis

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court, they need to be housed as soon as possible. Thank you very

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much indeed, pastor. Well throughout the day our reporter

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Katie Razzall has been in the shadow of Grenfell Towers,

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speaking to people who lost loved ones, and others whose

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friends and family members are still unaccounted for and also

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getting a feel for the solidarity Yesterday, in the afternoon, we were

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accommodated. This is where I live, 571. Until the early hours of

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Wednesday morning, this man lived in Grenfell Tower. Now his home is a

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hotel. He is haunted by what he saw that night and the neighbours but

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could not have survived. Being in the building for this many hours, of

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course you are not alive. He showed me his videos of the fire. This is

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when I phoned my mum. I think I phoned my mum at 1:30am. By then it

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is really on fire. He was leaving the cinema with his sister when his

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mother called from home to save their block was ablaze. He found her

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after an agonising wait. I tried to go inside the building to save my

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mum. I saw a firefighter going in at the same time and he stopped me and

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said, only people can come out, nobody is allowed in. I said, my mum

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is in there. I ran and the first person I saw was my mum. I was so

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happy. Happiness and laughter lasted -- lasted for ten to 20 seconds.

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People were on the phone talking to their kids, they're why. One man was

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telling his wife what to do. We told him to put a wet towel over her

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mouth and her daughter's mouth and get on the floor. To help with the

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gas, to help with the explosion. Did they get out, do you think? No.

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Newsnight understands from a firefighter, they knew after 11am

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yesterday morning they would be unlikely to find any more survivors.

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It was the worst they had seen in all their years of firefighting.

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Block of around 600 hundred inhabitants from diverse

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backgrounds, still smoking today. Most of them were Muslims from

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Turkey, Somalia, there were English people, black people, black Muslims.

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What do we know of who lived in Grenfell Tower. This rainy and bone

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man lived in flat ten on the third floor, a floor below where the fire

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started. Other survivors include on the ninth sorry, this Moroccan

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family who fled when one of them smelt smoke and woke up to see

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flames outside. From the 11th floor, this lady who escaped with her

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husband and three children when a friend called to tell her of the

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fire. It is the poor souls who are missing or dead who keep this man

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awake at night. I cannot close my eyes when I know people died in

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front of me. You saw it, they do? Yes, I saw people jumping out from

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the building. Not one or two, many. Couldn't avoid looking at them.

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Yesterday we heard other family on the 21st floor. A 20-year-old with

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his parents, brother and sister. There were rumours on social media

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the family is dead. Officially, they are still missing. This from a

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friend today. It breaks my heart because social media is going out

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and things are confirmed. Those messages are going to his family and

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friends and it is distorting everything. No one in the tower has

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been confirmed. On the 14th floor lived Syrian brothers. University

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student Mohammed Alhajali was overwhelmed by smoke while his

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friends escaped. It was confirmed he perished after a phone call home to

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Syria. He was terrified, he was scared. He had hoped the emergency

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services would get to him. Two hours later, he phoned to say the fire has

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reached me now. I am going to die. Goodbye to my mum and my father, I

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love them. That was the last message from him. The names and faces of the

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missing residence of the tower gives a snapshot into a diverse and

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tight-knit community. This 79-year-old from the Philippines.

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And this month, was about to win an award for his work as a security

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guard. The Italians who moved into the 23rd floor three months ago and

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this five-year-old who was lost in in the chaos of the evacuation. This

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is a community anxiously waiting for news of loved ones and friends. They

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were warned today, the police fear they may never identify all of those

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who have been killed. Well, this has gone beyond a local

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tragedy and become a event that has touched people

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across the whole country. And along with that spotlight has

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come intense scrutiny of whether politicians at a national

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level have done enough in the past But it was also the tone

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of the response that drew attention. Theresa May was pictured

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meeting the leaders of the London Fire Service,

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while Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn was filmed

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mingling with local people. Our political editor

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Nick Watt is here. Nick, how's the political

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response going down? How has that political response been

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judge? There is those who say it could provide a defining image of

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her Premiership. One Tory MP said the Prime Minister is behaving how

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she behaved in the election. Her limitations are there for everybody

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to see. When Theresa May visits the scene of a tragedy, she always goes

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out of her way to ensure she is not a burden on the emergency services.

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This was a private visit, there were no cameras and there were limited

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discussions with the emergency service leaders and volunteer

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leaders, but there was no meeting with the residents. As I understand

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it, the Prime Minister wanted to hear directly, on the ground what

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had happened, before deciding what to do. She had been told the fire

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had spread in a strange, unpredictable and volatile way and

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when she heard that, she said there are huge questions to be answered

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and so later on, she announced there will be a judge led public enquiry

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and she says that will report properly. Thank you very much.

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Nick Paget-Brown is the Conservative leader of Kensington

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Good evening. When will you last in Grenfell Tower? I went to the

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opening of the dale boxing club last summer, just after the end of the

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refurbishment of the tower. We were delighted, not only had we found

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more homes in the tower through a judicious conversion of certain

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rooms, but we got the boxing club, so I went to a happy opening. So not

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up the tower? In the tower, up a level, then when the refurbishment

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was completed, we went into a flat further up to look at the new

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kitchen and heating system and the new windows. At that stage you were

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aware of concerns about the refurbishment? Some residents were

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very concerned about the whole concept of the refurbishment. Some

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residents were pleased it addressed the problems they had with heating,

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either being hot or cold. We had invested ?10 million to deal with

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their problems. We will know more about what will go wrong in the

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public enquiry, there are certain things we can talk about now because

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this is your area and things will have to move quicker than the public

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enquiry, one assumes. How many towers in Kensington and Chelsea

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have similar cladding? As far as we know, there are no other towers

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without cladding. No other old towers have modern cladding? As far

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as I am aware no other towers in Kensington and Chelsea have that

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particular form of cladding. You won't be putting cladding on like

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that with the same components in the future? No. How many towers do you

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have without sprinklers? That will vary, according to what the fire

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inspection requires they have. New towers do have sprinklers, some old

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towers don't, how many old towers don't? Some of the old towers before

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the 1970s won't have integral sprinklers. I cannot give you a

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number. You have not checked up since the fire? We have looked at

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the London Fire Brigade to check on all the towers and make sure all the

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safety in all the towers, if they can give is the assurance we need

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that all of those towers are saved and comply with fire standards and

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regulations. We will talk about wrinkles in a

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moment but in the refurbishment, did you consider retrofitting

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sprinklers? I did not consider that, but what you try to do when you are

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refurbishing is contain a fire within a particular flat so that the

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Fire Service can evacuate that flat, deal with the fire. Do you wish now

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that you had splinters? Because from the black canal house case, in 2013,

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the coroner wrote to the governor saying that retrofitting of speakers

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may now be possible at lower costs than had previously been thought.

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And a report said they reckon that Grenfell Tower could have been

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retrofitted with sprinklers which would have helped with this fire for

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?200,000. And we know the residents were talking about the issues of

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sprinklers. Why was retrofitting sprinklers not considered? Because

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there was not a collective view that all the flats should be fitted with

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sprinklers because that would have delayed and made the refurbishment

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more destructive. Delay would have been less important than having a

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fire? We're talking retrospectively after the most enormous tragedy.

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Many residents felt that we needed to get on with the fitting of

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boilers and heating systems and to retrofit more would delay the

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building and that sprinklers were not the answer. Do you regret that?

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I regret anything that we might have done differently that would have

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avoided the tragedy. But right now, when talking about the response

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right now, and we know this from residents, they have been put in a

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local hotel last night, and they were not told until lunchtime

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whether they would be able to stay there. They were not told whether

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they would be allowed to have food, and they were told the council would

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come and they did not come. The truth is that you cannot cope with

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this. I am being honest and I think that we have coped with it as well

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as we can after eight tragedy of this dimension. We have host people.

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But you do not have the council workers to deal with traumatised

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families. You promised the council would come to see them but you

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cannot deal with that when people are grief stricken. We have three

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emergency centres and we have councils... It is about people you

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are housing and you said you would visit them and nobody has visited.

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My understanding is that housing officials are and will visit them

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but there are issues about people... You feel is to look after them once

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and you are feeling to look after them twice. I hope that we are not,

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I hope we are fitting them into safe temporary accommodation while we are

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working out the long-term challenges they face. -- you were feeling to

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look after them once and you are feeling to look after them once.

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Theresa May did not meet residents today, because of security concerns.

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Is that not a dreadful error of judgment? All I can talk to you

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about is what the local authorities doing to improve the lives of

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people. She is your conservative leader. Should she have met

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residents, should she should she not? She did not meet residents

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because she did not want to interfere with the work of the

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emergency services. That would not have interfered. I have met people

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within the emergency centres and I am delighted to welcome anybody,

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including the Secretary of State, and they will meet residents and

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here the problem. We have asked the government for help with more

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housing accommodation. We need to house people permanently, not just

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temporarily. David Lammy this morning alleged that this was

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corporate manslaughter. Do you recognise that possibility? I think

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that is a matter for the enquiry and I will not comment on any of these

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allegations because I think that would be the wrong thing to do. I

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understand it and I appreciate it but I think my job is to make sure

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that the borough, and those people whose lives have been devastated, I

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need to focus my energies on them and I do not want to be brought into

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political slanging matches. Let's look at the national picture.

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Chris Philp is the Conservative MP for Croydon South.

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Andy Slaughter is Labour's shadow housing minister.

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His Hammersmith constituency is adjacent to Grenfell Tower.

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First of all, a lot of high-rises were built under various

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government's watches. How many decades old buildings do not have

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sprinkler systems? Many will not have sprinkler systems and the

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recommendation on retrofitting which we have heard from 2013 has not been

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implemented. In fact it was rejected. The lack house disaster

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was on Labour's watch and they did not pursue the recommendation. --

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the Lakanal House disaster. It is a political issue. It is. And to

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correct you on that point, the coroners letters came out in 2013

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and they are the ones that were not permitted. I think the issue here is

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that this is on a completely different scale to any previous

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fire. So we have a situation where you have in the space of 15 minutes,

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the fire spreading from one corner of the block to the entire block.

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But in lots of Labour councils throughout the land there are

:21:10.:21:12.

buildings which have been required. There are also building that do not

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have Spengler systems. -- buildings which have been reclad. Is there

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going to be an assessment made to see what problems there might be?

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The truth of the matter is that if buildings are reclad in materials

:21:27.:21:30.

similar to this, that could be problems. That is the priority

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question. Many councils like my own, I'm doing the assessment right now

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and I expect to report tomorrow but this has to be a job for central

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government. Cannot wait for a public enquiry to make these analyses of

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whether there are other tower blocks at risk. That has to be our number

:21:49.:21:52.

one priority. Even if their rent any, people will be worried that

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there are. Thank you. Turning to you, Chris, John and Neil from the

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Fire Service regulations have said that the relations were resisted

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because no body was dying in these buildings. Did Grenfell Tower have

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to happen before people would take action? A meeting was set to occur

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when the election was called. But four years, four years? 2013 and

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2017. The truth of the matter is that if something similar had been

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found in an aircraft, because of cladding that was not suitable or

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the fact that sprinklers were not fitted, it would be shut down, but

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the problem is that people who do not have any power lives in these

:22:42.:22:44.

high-rise buildings and nobody listens to them. Going back to the

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coroners report, one of the recommendations was that the

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Secretary of State right to social housing providers asking them to

:22:55.:22:58.

consider fitting sprinkler systems and Eric Pickles did that

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straightaway. Some councils responded immediately. But some

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wanted the central government to allow them to carry more debt? The

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building we are looking adhere had a ?10 million refurbishment very

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recently and I have seen the figures. It would have only cost

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?200,000 to put in sprinklers, and it was not a question of money, it

:23:20.:23:25.

was a question of priorities. Something extraordinary clearly

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happened in that building and we need to find out as a matter of

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urgency exactly what it was. Was at the cladding, the lack of

:23:32.:23:37.

sprinklers, was it something else? Whatever happened in the building,

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we need to make sure that it never happens again. But as well as that,

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somebody unusually will have to carry the can. I think is that

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public enquiry, led by a judge appointed by the Lord Chief Justice,

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so completely independent and able to call any witness, if they find an

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individual or corporate body failed in their duty, then clearly

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prosecutions should follow. But that is something that the public enquiry

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will have to look at and report upon. What do you think the

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government should do in the interim? In the interim, it has to do with

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two things. They have to give reassurance to the hundreds of

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thousands that lived in tower blocks that they are safe but it also has

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to give assurances to the people who live around Grenfell Tower, who are

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justifiably very angry that their concerns have not been listened to.

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Setting up that enquiry, it has to be open and transparent and people

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have to be persuaded, as they are not at the moment, that it is going

:24:33.:24:36.

to find the truth and if people are responsible, they must be punished.

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There will be an early interim report after a couple of months, and

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if there is any critical failings, like if the cladding is highly

:24:45.:24:48.

flammable, which was suggested, we need to know about that in a matter

:24:49.:24:52.

of weeks. And move people out of the buildings. If other buildings have

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that dangerous cladding, immediate action will need to be taken in a

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matter of weeks and months. You are suggesting that if there is similar

:25:01.:25:03.

cladding on other buildings, people should be moved out immediately. If

:25:04.:25:08.

it is flammable, yes. Let's talk about Theresa May. We understand

:25:09.:25:11.

that she did not want to interrupt the work of the emergency services

:25:12.:25:17.

or volunteers, but she chose not to meet residents. It was cited as

:25:18.:25:22.

being for security concerns. People could have met her in private, and

:25:23.:25:26.

it would have been perfectly safe to meet people. Did you think that

:25:27.:25:30.

showed somebody that was showing a compassionate side? I'm not sure if

:25:31.:25:34.

it was just security concerns. I think she was keen not to intrude

:25:35.:25:38.

and cause disruption at a time of anxiety and grief. The people

:25:39.:25:41.

concerned were still searching for loved ones. Is it not important to

:25:42.:25:45.

have the Prime Minister show she cares? She is trying to be practical

:25:46.:25:49.

and talk to the emergency services, to find out what needs to be done

:25:50.:25:53.

rather than grandstanding. I am sure she will meet families but the day

:25:54.:25:56.

after they have lost their loved ones, the last thing you need is the

:25:57.:26:00.

Prime Minister of the country elbowing her way in. To be honest, I

:26:01.:26:04.

have spent a few days down there with Jeremy Corbyn. People did not

:26:05.:26:08.

think he was intruding, they thought he was showing simple human sympathy

:26:09.:26:11.

and kindness. Thank you both very much indeed.

:26:12.:26:12.

The Public Inquiry will take evidence from all manner of experts,

:26:13.:26:14.

contractors, councillors, emergency services,

:26:15.:26:16.

community organisations, politicians and hopefully residents,

:26:17.:26:21.

but it doesn't take a public inquiry to say that a review of building

:26:22.:26:24.

regulations covering fire safety was promised by Theresa May's

:26:25.:26:26.

chief of staff last year but has not been published.

:26:27.:26:29.

The reason for that review was the fatal Lakanal House fire

:26:30.:26:35.

in 2009 a multi-storey block in which six people died.

:26:36.:26:38.

The coroner in the Lakanal House Inquest said that the government

:26:39.:26:44.

should encourage providers of high rise housing to consider

:26:45.:26:47.

retrofitting sprinkler systems - there was none in Grenfell -

:26:48.:26:50.

and there are 4000 tower blocks in the UK that

:26:51.:26:52.

We'll be talking to the lawyer for the Lakanal residents in a second.

:26:53.:26:58.

But first, last night our policy editor Chris Cook reported

:26:59.:27:00.

on details of the material with which Grenfell was cladded.

:27:01.:27:03.

He's been looking more closely at this issue.

:27:04.:27:05.

One of the most important questions to answer quickly is,

:27:06.:27:24.

how many other buildings are at risk from fires

:27:25.:27:26.

of the sort that devastated the Grenfell Tower.

:27:27.:27:28.

Right now, that's a very hard question to answer.

:27:29.:27:30.

To really understand the tragedy that

:27:31.:27:31.

unfolded this week in Kensington, it may help to appreciate a success

:27:32.:27:34.

Back in 2012, there was a major fire on the 17th

:27:35.:27:38.

A pensioner's flat was completely destroyed.

:27:39.:27:41.

It was contained by the walls and floors and the external

:27:42.:27:45.

So the fire brigade were able to get here

:27:46.:27:54.

and stop it from getting into any other flats.

:27:55.:27:56.

A personal tragedy was prevented from becoming a much

:27:57.:27:58.

One explanation for why the fire spread so quickly in

:27:59.:28:02.

the Grenfell Tower was that the fire appears

:28:03.:28:04.

to have spread over the outside of the building

:28:05.:28:07.

That's insulation added to the exterior of the building

:28:08.:28:13.

This broad design of cladding is in wide use.

:28:14.:28:23.

You pin a layer of insulation material to the outside of the

:28:24.:28:26.

Then add a waterproof layer to guard against the weather.

:28:27.:28:30.

It was this outer layer that Newsnight

:28:31.:28:31.

revealed yesterday, was of a design that

:28:32.:28:33.

wasn't as fireproof as it might have been.

:28:34.:28:39.

But experts have also called into question whether there's

:28:40.:28:41.

Not with Grenfell Tower in particular,

:28:42.:28:43.

but with materials being used in general in cladding.

:28:44.:28:46.

The Fire Protection Association has been

:28:47.:28:48.

conducting tests on widely used insulation material, for example.

:28:49.:28:52.

Typically, we will fill a wheelie bin with cardboard, plastic bottles

:28:53.:28:55.

and normal stuff you see in a normal recycling bin.

:28:56.:28:58.

We put it up against the cladding and set fire to it.

:28:59.:29:04.

You get some initial charring, but within a very short space

:29:05.:29:12.

of time, the fire has got into the expanded

:29:13.:29:14.

Theresa May today announced an enquiry.

:29:15.:29:17.

Whether we take enough care to keep such

:29:18.:29:19.

combustible material safely boxed in is one of the questions it

:29:20.:29:22.

I am today ordering a full public enquiry into this disaster.

:29:23.:29:30.

We need to have an explanation of this.

:29:31.:29:34.

We owe that to the families, to the people

:29:35.:29:36.

who have lost loved ones, friends and the homes

:29:37.:29:38.

One of the first questions, though, is how widespread is the

:29:39.:29:45.

sort of arrangement we saw at the Grenfell Tower

:29:46.:29:47.

Where we've seen the widespread insulation of buildings,

:29:48.:29:54.

retrospective insulation of buildings, is generally

:29:55.:29:55.

The insulation materials of choice tend to be combustible or

:29:56.:30:01.

It's very rare that I'm seeing installed in

:30:02.:30:06.

residential accommodation noncombustible insulation material.

:30:07.:30:09.

We may have problems because we are quite slow

:30:10.:30:12.

I'm absolutely amazed that your regulations haven't been looked

:30:13.:30:23.

at for over ten years, as I understand it.

:30:24.:30:27.

With all of the developments happening with

:30:28.:30:29.

materials, we see some of these fires that

:30:30.:30:33.

are occurring around the world, we have lessons that we learn

:30:34.:30:35.

from other countries, new materials that are being developed,

:30:36.:30:39.

A 10-year plus review of regulations, I don't think

:30:40.:30:47.

But there's been resistance in Whitehall to

:30:48.:30:50.

regulation reform and in part, it's because

:30:51.:30:54.

Conversations we've had with officials at DCLG, very recently

:30:55.:31:07.

have pointed out that people aren't dying in these buildings.

:31:08.:31:10.

And so, while no one was dying, it didn't matter?

:31:11.:31:12.

Group upon group have been lining up to

:31:13.:31:19.

tell the government they need to make a review

:31:20.:31:22.

A full explanation of the tragedy will

:31:23.:31:24.

The fire penetrated the building very deeply, so why didn't its

:31:25.:31:29.

internal fire brakes hold the fire back?

:31:30.:31:31.

Do we need sprinklers in more buildings?

:31:32.:31:33.

Sophie Khan acted as lawyer for the residents group

:31:34.:31:40.

of the Lakanal House fire in 2009 in which six people died.

:31:41.:31:43.

Went you saw the fire, it must have brought back all the mammaries? Did,

:31:44.:31:55.

and questions have to be asked that after how a very detailed inquest,

:31:56.:32:01.

and a report to the government, why this could happen again? Is the

:32:02.:32:09.

right way a public enquiry? No, the right way is inquests. The families

:32:10.:32:13.

have a right to participate, they have a right to cross-examine upper

:32:14.:32:17.

questions to the experts and able to get their own experts if the coroner

:32:18.:32:22.

gets permission. The coroner is independent of the government. In a

:32:23.:32:27.

public enquiry, it is very much government lead. And ice right in

:32:28.:32:32.

saying no way, any resident family member take place in a public

:32:33.:32:38.

enquiry? Not in a public enquiry, very limited rules in a public

:32:39.:32:43.

enquiry, it is government-controlled, government

:32:44.:32:49.

outcome. Was this unavoidable? 100%. The sprinklers, even though it

:32:50.:32:52.

wouldn't have said the building, I think it would have said the

:32:53.:32:56.

individuals inside the building. It would have given them time to get

:32:57.:33:03.

out. The building, I I believe, would have perished. Is it your

:33:04.:33:13.

experience that residents Association are not listened to?

:33:14.:33:18.

Yes, but also the fire assessments, we have to look at the fire

:33:19.:33:23.

assessments. Here, there is a fire issue, not just a council we need to

:33:24.:33:26.

look at. What whether Fire Brigade doing? The refurbishments have been

:33:27.:33:33.

done, what tests did they do on the building? But these are questions

:33:34.:33:38.

the residents will not be able to ask in the public enquiry. In your

:33:39.:33:43.

view, is this an intended consequence of the public enquiry or

:33:44.:33:47.

do you think it is worked out a position that if the government goes

:33:48.:33:52.

for a public enquiry and not an inquest, they will be not subject to

:33:53.:33:58.

the same scrutiny? That is correct. In an inquests, they lose control of

:33:59.:34:04.

what a jury verdict will do. And I jury will come out with narrative

:34:05.:34:08.

verdicts which may be difficult for the government... One of the other,

:34:09.:34:14.

you cannot have both? Only one or the other. Would you urge the

:34:15.:34:22.

residents to kick up a fuss? Yes, they should be demanding an inquest

:34:23.:34:25.

from the government to say, this isn't the right way, we don't want a

:34:26.:34:29.

public enquiry, we want an inquest. I am concerned why the Prime

:34:30.:34:37.

Minister came out to say so quickly, public enquiry. What does she know

:34:38.:34:42.

that needs to be heading? Thank you very much.

:34:43.:34:45.

The tragedy of Grenfell Tower has all but blotted out

:34:46.:34:47.

the post election turmoil, delaying any deal negotiations

:34:48.:34:49.

between the tories and the DUP to prop up Theresa May.

:34:50.:34:52.

Nor does the shape of the impending Brexit negotiations,

:34:53.:34:54.

and questions over an all party team punch through the still

:34:55.:34:56.

In fact it's hard to focus on the fact that there was a general

:34:57.:35:01.

election exactly a week ago, but now there are extraordinary

:35:02.:35:03.

details emerging of the way that that election was played,

:35:04.:35:06.

or rather mis-played by Theresa May and her now sacked

:35:07.:35:08.

I'm joined by our political editor Nick Watt.

:35:09.:35:15.

The negotiations between the government and the DUP are still

:35:16.:35:22.

ongoing. Arlene Foster stepped back yesterday after the fire but they

:35:23.:35:25.

are still talking. Downing Street can be confident the confident will

:35:26.:35:29.

support the Queen's Speech and that is why they were able to announce

:35:30.:35:34.

the Queen's Speech will take place next Wednesday. But they are not

:35:35.:35:40.

there on the second part of the deal, support and supply. The

:35:41.:35:45.

Treasury's job is to ask difficult questions. The reason why the reason

:35:46.:35:49.

may is having to talk to a party with just ten MPs because her

:35:50.:35:54.

election gamble failed. I have spent the last few days just trying to

:35:55.:35:59.

work out what exactly happened in that election campaign.

:36:00.:36:03.

She was Britain's new iron Lady who would deliver

:36:04.:36:05.

Threats against Britain have been issued.

:36:06.:36:12.

And tackle deep injustices overlooked by generations

:36:13.:36:14.

And then against the better instincts of this

:36:15.:36:19.

most cautious politician, she took the gamble of her life and failed.

:36:20.:36:27.

Are you stepping down Mrs May? Clearly this was a catastrophe of a

:36:28.:36:37.

campaign. She had given people a choice, told them to choose her and

:36:38.:36:43.

then she had. She wasn't strong and stable. Theresa May has apologised

:36:44.:36:50.

to Tory MPs who believed the Prime Minister and her tiny, and now

:36:51.:36:55.

former circle of advisers to await the selection in the finest

:36:56.:37:01.

tradition, a blame game is underway. Insiders who toiled away here at

:37:02.:37:05.

Tory HQ have identified two fundamental flaws with the campaign.

:37:06.:37:08.

There was no clear line of authority between the main figures. Nick

:37:09.:37:13.

Timothy and Fiona Hill and the Australian polling guru, Sir Lynton

:37:14.:37:22.

Crosby. And then, there was what has been described as complacency. The

:37:23.:37:27.

Number Ten in a circle never feared they would lose this election so

:37:28.:37:31.

they never took Jeremy Corbyn seriously. After a less than

:37:32.:37:35.

friendly welcome, the defining moment of the campaign came in the

:37:36.:37:40.

wake of the manifesto launch. Within days, Theresa May was forced to

:37:41.:37:45.

embark on a hasty U-turn over the electoral pledge, the so-called

:37:46.:37:50.

dementia tax. Newsnight understands the two Cabinet minister is with

:37:51.:37:53.

responsibility for social care, Jeremy Hunt GIB Javad, were only

:37:54.:38:08.

informed of the policy in the 24 hours before the launch of the

:38:09.:38:10.

manifesto. Instead, the social care section drew on initial work from a

:38:11.:38:12.

green paper led by a Cabinet minister who co-authored the

:38:13.:38:15.

manifesto. I have been told other Cabinet ministers were consulted on

:38:16.:38:19.

those parts of the manifesto related to their briefs. But ministers were

:38:20.:38:23.

only given a copy of the whole manifesto, shortly before the launch

:38:24.:38:27.

and about 20 minutes before the media. Even the head of the Prime

:38:28.:38:33.

Minister's policy board wasn't consulted. I wouldn't expect in a

:38:34.:38:37.

snap election, get signed off by Cabinet and goes through a series of

:38:38.:38:41.

negotiations, presumably and discussions. I wouldn't expect to be

:38:42.:38:46.

holding the pen on the last draft. But I didn't see any draft. I think

:38:47.:38:50.

there was a culture in the campaign, we, the five or six of us are going

:38:51.:38:59.

to do this. There was this huge policy on the controversial issue of

:39:00.:39:04.

social care and how to fund it. And obviously fraught with political

:39:05.:39:08.

risk that they don't seem to have checked in research, they don't seem

:39:09.:39:12.

to have squared it with people in the party and it landed like an

:39:13.:39:18.

unexpected bomb right in the Tory heartland. I think people were

:39:19.:39:21.

looking for a middle way. There must be a middle way between the Jeremy

:39:22.:39:29.

Corbyn approach. Here is the cookie jar, help yourself, the rich will

:39:30.:39:34.

pay. And us, we will take your kid's school meals away, which we had to

:39:35.:39:39.

explain, that is not the case. We will take your grandparent's house

:39:40.:39:44.

away, which also wasn't the case. I closed the last page and felt this

:39:45.:39:48.

sinking feeling, the manifesto is supposed to offer hope and a

:39:49.:39:53.

brighter future to people. This does not love the above. It literally

:39:54.:39:58.

tells people, your life is going to be really bad if you vote for this

:39:59.:40:04.

manifesto. Within days of the manifesto launch, and irritated

:40:05.:40:12.

Prime Minister said that a cap would be introduced. Nothing has changed,

:40:13.:40:17.

nothing has changed. This featured in early work of the Green paper but

:40:18.:40:21.

it wasn't in the manifesto because it hadn't been finalised. It turned

:40:22.:40:31.

out voters were so confused they asked Labour to explain the

:40:32.:40:34.

manifesto from the Tories. People were worried about how they would

:40:35.:40:37.

heat and whether they would be able to keep their homes. Member of

:40:38.:40:42.

Theresa May's inner circle feel deeply bruised over the fallout of

:40:43.:40:47.

the manifesto. On social care, they said the Prime Minister was

:40:48.:40:50.

motivated by fairness. Why should a young person living in the North

:40:51.:40:54.

subsidise the care costs of a pensioner living in the South in a

:40:55.:41:00.

house worth ?1 million. It is a choice between strong and stable

:41:01.:41:03.

leadership under the Conservatives... One of the aspects

:41:04.:41:08.

of the campaign was the disappearing act performed by one of the central

:41:09.:41:14.

messages, Theresa May's strong and stable leadership. The strong and

:41:15.:41:18.

stable thing worked for about two days, resonated for two days, then

:41:19.:41:22.

people were sick of it because it was literally repeated. I don't know

:41:23.:41:29.

when that was dropped. I know with our local campaign, we dropped

:41:30.:41:32.

saying it very quickly because of the reaction we got. That was

:41:33.:41:35.

probably the way it was dropped around the country bag other

:41:36.:41:40.

candidates as well. Lynton Crosby was the author of this message and

:41:41.:41:44.

he is also blamed for the highly personal attacks on Jeremy Corbyn.

:41:45.:41:49.

This dismayed one of the architects of the Tory modernisation project.

:41:50.:41:54.

There was an attempted character assassination, which I think was

:41:55.:42:00.

quite likely to do what it did, repel far more people than it

:42:01.:42:05.

attracted. Lynton Crosby has told friends about his frustration with

:42:06.:42:09.

the campaign, puts one old friend thinks he will recover. You win some

:42:10.:42:15.

and lose some. It shouldn't affect his reputation. For what he does, he

:42:16.:42:23.

doesn't make the speeches. He doesn't choose the Shadow Cabinet or

:42:24.:42:29.

the Cabinet, he isn't involved in that side of it. For what he does,

:42:30.:42:35.

he does that pretty professionally. But it is no guarantee that you are

:42:36.:42:42.

always going to win an election. Theresa May is now fighting to keep

:42:43.:42:47.

the Tories in office and avoid another election. Amid widespread

:42:48.:42:50.

agreement among her MPs that she needs to stand down before then, one

:42:51.:42:55.

senior figure says the party should develop a more positive outlook with

:42:56.:43:00.

an emphasis on schools and skills. I think this very narrow shrill,

:43:01.:43:05.

divisive partisan insistence that Brexit was ever think, quite a hard

:43:06.:43:11.

Brexit message. I think people started to think, if that is the

:43:12.:43:14.

Conservative Party, if it thinks everything will be solved by Brexit,

:43:15.:43:19.

it isn't in tune with us. I think the campaign let Theresa May down.

:43:20.:43:25.

That speech on the streets of Number Ten last year achieved huge approval

:43:26.:43:33.

across the country. Theresa May had thought by now, she would be

:43:34.:43:38.

settling back into Downing Street with an emphatic electoral mandate.

:43:39.:43:42.

Instead, the legacy of her troubled campaign is a new life as the

:43:43.:43:46.

surprise leader of a minority government. And this negotiations

:43:47.:43:50.

with a minor party and even factions within her own Cabinet to ensure the

:43:51.:43:52.

survival of her government. We leave you with some

:43:53.:43:56.

of the messages written on the wall outside Latymer Christian Centre

:43:57.:44:01.

in the last two days. They reflect the grief that has

:44:02.:44:03.

engulfed that part of London, and also the quite anger of people

:44:04.:44:06.

still looking for answers. Good evening. A cold front moved

:44:07.:45:14.

across the country introducing fresh air today and that is good news in

:45:15.:45:18.

terms of the feel through the night. More comfortable for trying to

:45:19.:45:22.

sleep. There will be

:45:23.:45:23.

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