16/06/2017 Newsnight


16/06/2017

As tensions rise after the Grenfell Tower fire, has Theresa May misjudged the public mood? And what do the public think of her? Emily Maitlis presents.


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Transcript


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Down at the site of the fire - they're calling her a coward.

:00:10.:00:12.

Can the Prime Minister prove to the protesters

:00:13.:00:14.

in West London her government has listened and learned?

:00:15.:00:18.

Within three weeks, people will be rehoused

:00:19.:00:21.

I ask you again, do you accept, though, that you misread the public

:00:22.:00:28.

You didn't go and meet residents and they really resented that.

:00:29.:00:33.

This was a terrible tragedy that took place.

:00:34.:00:40.

Tonight those demonstrations continue - one group have tried

:00:41.:00:42.

And at Downing Street - all demanding answers.

:00:43.:00:58.

I walked with them from Kensington town Hall to the tower and saw the

:00:59.:01:04.

passion and the anger of people here.

:01:05.:01:08.

And - reality check - it's just just one week

:01:09.:01:11.

If there was an election next week, God forbid, who would vote for

:01:12.:01:18.

So you switch now. -- so you've switched now.

:01:19.:01:33.

We ask people in Enfield Southgate - which turned Labour this time -

:01:34.:01:36.

what they make of the election result.

:01:37.:01:38.

It was exactly a week ago that Kensington Town Hall

:01:39.:01:45.

was recounting one of the tightest fought battles of

:01:46.:01:47.

A seat that overturned a huge Conservative majority -

:01:48.:01:54.

Today, it became the centre of protest as locals and residents

:01:55.:02:03.

of the Grenfell Tower fire descended upon it to scream their anger -

:02:04.:02:06.

demanding justice, information, and answers from government

:02:07.:02:08.

Arrangements for survivors and evacuees in the borough

:02:09.:02:11.

Powered by volunteers with little coordination from authorities.

:02:12.:02:14.

Tonight, as more protests spread to the centre of London -

:02:15.:02:17.

it felt like a bottle had been uncorked.

:02:18.:02:20.

The heat of early summer, the anger of grief -

:02:21.:02:24.

a potentially toxic combination for a government so fragile

:02:25.:02:26.

John Sweeney has been in the thick of it all day and joins us.

:02:27.:02:33.

What is the mood like where you are? Well, the situation here, it is

:02:34.:02:45.

tense. I just walked past a candlelit vigil, many people

:02:46.:02:49.

standing outside the church holding candles to the dead. But at the same

:02:50.:02:55.

time there are shouts and there is a frenzy, police helicopter in the

:02:56.:03:00.

sky. It is very very hard to convey just how angry people were. I went

:03:01.:03:07.

on this march from Kensington Town Hall to the tower and there were

:03:08.:03:13.

times when you could almost feel the anger over flow. This feels, I might

:03:14.:03:18.

be wrong, but this feels toxic for the government of Theresa May. It

:03:19.:03:22.

feels as though there is a vacuum with this situation and what happens

:03:23.:03:29.

when a vacuum is created, not nothing, but people feel in and it

:03:30.:03:38.

is dark. No question. The feeling on the march you described earlier, as

:03:39.:03:45.

that is abated now? -- has that dissipated now? No, I don't want to

:03:46.:03:50.

be overly pessimistic but I can't see this ending well. Simple problem

:03:51.:03:56.

is, nobody knows how many people have died. I was speaking to someone

:03:57.:04:02.

who was close to a firefighter and they will worry that actually there

:04:03.:04:07.

could be refugee families from places like Somalia with lots and

:04:08.:04:12.

lots of people in their family and so the numbers we are talking about,

:04:13.:04:18.

possibly 70 dead, maybe 100, maybe more, no one knows. And while the

:04:19.:04:23.

uncertainty happens and there are good reasons for the authorities to

:04:24.:04:27.

be cautious and go step-by-step, to get the forensics right, which is

:04:28.:04:31.

difficult, but that is fuelling anger and it feels as though nothing

:04:32.:04:36.

is being done and Theresa May did not help. I've heard this again and

:04:37.:04:43.

again. The difficulty right now, and there are people shouting at us, the

:04:44.:04:49.

BBC is not popular, but today, this evening, I walked with the marchers

:04:50.:04:56.

from Kensington Town Hall and this is my report.

:04:57.:05:00.

Tonight, those who are grieving for the dead of the Grenfell

:05:01.:05:03.

fire took to the streets of London's richest borough.

:05:04.:05:06.

We outnumber the Conservative voters in this area two to one.

:05:07.:05:08.

The election result here in Kensington was more

:05:09.:05:20.

finely balanced than that, but the passion is real and raw.

:05:21.:05:23.

High Street Ken tube is over there and we've just turned off

:05:24.:05:26.

Kensington High Street and we are now on

:05:27.:05:28.

The idea that there would be a big demo, a big angry demo in this part

:05:29.:05:36.

of London a couple of weeks ago, it's extraordinary.

:05:37.:05:40.

As the march turned north towards the tower the numbers grew.

:05:41.:05:46.

The kids go to all of the schools round here.

:05:47.:05:49.

Also on the march, this man, who lives in a tower block in south

:05:50.:06:02.

London and fears what happened to the people of Grenfell Tower

:06:03.:06:05.

They have put new cladding on our block and we have been unable

:06:06.:06:09.

to find out the last three days if that cladding is safe.

:06:10.:06:12.

I've had about eight hours sleep the last few nights.

:06:13.:06:15.

Motorists hooted their support, tourists and shoppers

:06:16.:06:20.

But, for the main, the police presence was very low-key.

:06:21.:06:36.

So the tower in the background, the crowd is still pouring fast,

:06:37.:06:40.

and it's hard to express just how angry these people are.

:06:41.:06:42.

Politics has left Parliament and gone on the streets.

:06:43.:06:54.

As light faded, passions seemed to ease but London's

:06:55.:06:57.

The government was keen to get on the front

:06:58.:07:11.

Sajiv Javid - the Communities Secretary -

:07:12.:07:14.

promised nothing would be spared in an attempt to get those

:07:15.:07:17.

This was the picture that did for George Bush's reputation, flying

:07:18.:07:30.

over the devastation of hurricane Katrina, and ignoring the victims

:07:31.:07:34.

and seemingly their plight, is this the picture which is going to have a

:07:35.:07:37.

similar impact for Theresa May? Yesterday, not meeting the survivors

:07:38.:07:43.

and the anxious, but meeting the security services. The fact that

:07:44.:07:49.

today the Queen managed to visit only served to put more pressure on

:07:50.:07:54.

Theresa May. Her Majesty is not the focus of widespread anger right now,

:07:55.:07:58.

though. We want answers, and justice. Rightly or wrongly, Theresa

:07:59.:08:06.

May has become just that. What we want, justice. Theresa May is joined

:08:07.:08:14.

in the dock by Kensington and Chelsea Council. We have a right to

:08:15.:08:18.

be angry, and we have got to come out and say this is not acceptable.

:08:19.:08:23.

Enough is enough. We need to be angry, because there's reason not to

:08:24.:08:26.

be angry, because children have died. Families have died. A protest

:08:27.:08:32.

this afternoon included people storming to the town hall reception

:08:33.:08:36.

and a stand-off on the stairs. We want justice. We want justice. What

:08:37.:08:42.

you get is a strong sense of anger, not simply about what happened in

:08:43.:08:47.

Grenfell Tower although that is obviously the focus of the

:08:48.:08:50.

demonstration, but it is more about the power relationships and who is

:08:51.:08:55.

in charge and how they treat people who are dependent on them for their

:08:56.:08:59.

lives and their livelihoods. What we heard today time and time again is

:09:00.:09:04.

that the authorities are not being honest and they are holding

:09:05.:09:07.

information back and they are trying to minimise the official death toll.

:09:08.:09:14.

Nearly 100 persons missing, a lot of people asking, did you see this

:09:15.:09:20.

person, did you meet him, have you heard about him. People are lost.

:09:21.:09:27.

They don't know if they are in the hospital 's or they are dead or they

:09:28.:09:33.

are in the building. The Prime Minister attempted to answer her

:09:34.:09:36.

critics today with a visit to Chelsea and Westminster Hospital to

:09:37.:09:40.

meet survivors. Strong and stable leadership or just stable door

:09:41.:09:46.

locking. Because when that wasn't enough to satisfy her critics, the

:09:47.:09:49.

Prime Minister's team organised another visit, this afternoon to a

:09:50.:09:53.

church near the tower, now a centre for the relief effort, but this did

:09:54.:09:59.

little to calm the anger. And then you are going to come down after

:10:00.:10:06.

people forced you to be here. And then you are going to hide behind

:10:07.:10:13.

that red door. Why go to the same place Jeremy Corbyn wins 24 hours

:10:14.:10:17.

before? It is a publicity stunt and the newspapers like The Daily Mail

:10:18.:10:22.

will show that to show that she has heart and soul, but she is cold like

:10:23.:10:26.

a fish, ridiculous. If you care, show that you care. Where is the

:10:27.:10:35.

housing minister and the Home Secretary? We need you to talk, I'm

:10:36.:10:40.

not trying to blame anyone, but show you care, be around. The council

:10:41.:10:45.

have not shown anything, where are they? We are going to talk about

:10:46.:10:51.

things that happened, and make sure this doesn't happen again, but this

:10:52.:10:55.

has happened now. The Prime Minister's departure was chaotic

:10:56.:11:03.

from the church. Shouts of murderers and coward and at one point her

:11:04.:11:11.

car's departure was blocked and the police had to intervene. The way was

:11:12.:11:19.

cleared just in time. She might have managed to leave the area but

:11:20.:11:22.

neither she all the government or the Council Arkley of the

:11:23.:11:26.

controversy surrounding this disaster -- she or the government.

:11:27.:11:33.

Well, this evening - in a very unusual move -

:11:34.:11:36.

and with next to no notice - Downing Street informed us

:11:37.:11:38.

the Prime Minister would be arriving here at the BBC to do an interview.

:11:39.:11:42.

Theresa May was announcing a comprehensive package

:11:43.:11:47.

of support for the victims - including a ?5 million fund

:11:48.:11:50.

made available to pay for emergency supplies,

:11:51.:11:52.

I sat down with the Prime Minster earlier.

:11:53.:11:55.

Prime Minister, you've come here today to the BBC,

:11:56.:11:57.

instead of doing the interview at the site where you just

:11:58.:12:00.

Well, what I want to talk about today is what the government

:12:01.:12:06.

is making available to the victims of this absolutely

:12:07.:12:08.

I think we were all, when we saw the horrific scenes

:12:09.:12:14.

of what had happened at Grenfell Tower, we were all

:12:15.:12:17.

It's absolutely horrifying and I've been hearing stories today

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I've also been hearing from the local community,

:12:22.:12:27.

about the issues and concerns that they have.

:12:28.:12:30.

Now, the government is making ?5 million available, emergency

:12:31.:12:32.

Just to get money to be able to buy normal things of everyday life.

:12:33.:12:42.

This morning I was in one of the hospitals meeting some

:12:43.:12:44.

One of the women said to me, basically she ran out

:12:45.:12:50.

of Grenfell Tower in a T-shirt and a pair of knickers.

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That is why the government is putting that funding in.

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There are other things we will do as well to provide support

:12:59.:13:01.

for people to ensure they are rehoused

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But immediately we need to make sure people have the help they need.

:13:03.:13:06.

There is a need for the public to hear you say in words of one

:13:07.:13:12.

syllable, something terrible has happened, something

:13:13.:13:14.

"It is our fault, we acknowledge that and we accept responsibility".

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This is an absolutely awful fire that took place.

:13:18.:13:22.

People have had their homes destroyed.

:13:23.:13:29.

They have fled for their lives with absolutely nothing.

:13:30.:13:33.

Do you accept that you misread the public mood on this one?

:13:34.:13:39.

You misread the anger that people feel about this.

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They shouted coward you this afternoon when you left St Clements.

:13:44.:13:46.

What I have done since this incident took place,

:13:47.:13:48.

first of all, yesterday, ensure that public services had

:13:49.:13:51.

the support that they needed in order to be able to do the job

:13:52.:13:55.

they were doing in the immediate aftermath...

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Prime Minister, this is Friday evening, they needed those things

:13:59.:14:01.

People we spoke to were housed for one night and didn't know

:14:02.:14:07.

where they would spend the next night.

:14:08.:14:09.

And were not told anything by anyone.

:14:10.:14:12.

What I have done today is ensured that we are as a government putting

:14:13.:14:19.

that funding in place for people in the area.

:14:20.:14:23.

This has been an absolutely terrifying experience.

:14:24.:14:31.

When are they told where they are going to be housed?

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It has been a terrifying experience for people.

:14:37.:14:38.

This is why, when I've heard stories, I heard stories yesterday

:14:39.:14:40.

from the emergency services about the issues around the fire,

:14:41.:14:43.

that is why I came straight back to Downing Street and I ordered

:14:44.:14:46.

And we'll make sure that takes place as soon as possible to get

:14:47.:14:50.

This is not just about finding what happened.

:14:51.:14:53.

This is not just finding out who is responsible for what happened.

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It's about ensuring that support is there, here and now.

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Any other tragedy, flooding, you would have had the Army there,

:15:00.:15:03.

I was there on the ground, I saw the chaos myself.

:15:04.:15:08.

There was no one willing to accept responsibility.

:15:09.:15:30.

We are making sure that support is put in place the people.

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That means that money should be made available and we have...

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One of the things I have just heard from people is about making sure

:15:36.:15:39.

that that money actually get through to people.

:15:40.:15:41.

Because we have to, as government, make the money available.

:15:42.:15:44.

I want to make sure that people actually get that money

:15:45.:15:47.

in their hands so they can go and buy the things that they need.

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But they are being rehoused outside the borough,

:15:51.:15:52.

in places they don't know, don't live, don't have

:15:53.:15:54.

We are committed to making sure the people are rehoused as far

:15:55.:15:59.

as possible within the borough or in neighbouring boroughs.

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Some people may actually want to go to another part of London

:16:02.:16:04.

where perhaps they have a greater support network, where they have

:16:05.:16:06.

We are making sure that within three weeks people will be rehoused

:16:07.:16:10.

Do you accept, though, that you misread the public mood

:16:11.:16:14.

You didn't visit the residents and they really resented that.

:16:15.:16:18.

This was a terrible tragedy that took place.

:16:19.:16:20.

People have lost their lives and others have lost everything.

:16:21.:16:22.

All their possessions, their home and everything.

:16:23.:16:25.

What we are doing is putting in place the support

:16:26.:16:28.

I have heard horrifying stories from the Fire Brigade, from the police,

:16:29.:16:35.

and from the victims themselves who were in that fire,

:16:36.:16:37.

but also from other local residents, some of whom, of course,

:16:38.:16:40.

have not been able to go back to their homes either.

:16:41.:16:43.

What I'm not actually focused on is making sure that we get that

:16:44.:16:46.

As I say, government is making money available and we are making sure

:16:47.:16:50.

that we're going to get to the bottom of what's happened

:16:51.:16:52.

and we will make sure that people are rehoused.

:16:53.:16:55.

But we need to make sure that that actually happens.

:16:56.:17:06.

In 2013 a coroner had safety recommendations which included

:17:07.:17:10.

putting sprinklers in all these buildings and it was never done.

:17:11.:17:12.

There were two types of material that could have been

:17:13.:17:15.

used in the cladding, one was flammable

:17:16.:17:17.

We have yet to find out what because of the fire was.

:17:18.:17:30.

You could have stopped it spreading by spending ?2 more.

:17:31.:17:40.

The Fire Service are looking at what because of the fire

:17:41.:17:42.

was and it's important that we get to the bottom of this, that we find

:17:43.:17:46.

You were in government and the coroner said you can stop

:17:47.:17:55.

this with a sprinkler system in every block.

:17:56.:17:57.

And the government has taken action on the recommendations

:17:58.:17:59.

But what we need to do in relation to this incident,

:18:00.:18:03.

to this horrifying fire, is to make sure that we get

:18:04.:18:05.

to the bottom of why is fire took place, what happened,

:18:06.:18:08.

why did it spread so unexpectedly and so ferociously.

:18:09.:18:14.

But we know Gavin Barwell sat on a report from last October,

:18:15.:18:17.

He knew about these recommendations then.

:18:18.:18:20.

The government acted on recommendations from

:18:21.:18:22.

But what we need to do is make sure that information to this fire we do

:18:23.:18:33.

The Fire Service will look at what it was that immediately

:18:34.:18:41.

happened, but beyond that, the public inquiry will get to

:18:42.:18:43.

the wider issues of responsibility in relation to this.

:18:44.:18:54.

Around the country there are 4000 other high-rise blocks.

:18:55.:18:56.

There are many, many residents tonight wondering what kind

:18:57.:18:58.

When will you be able to tell them that they are safe

:18:59.:19:02.

The government is doing everything in its power to make sure

:19:03.:19:06.

We've identified those buildings and over the weekend,

:19:07.:19:09.

now and over the weekend, people are going in and

:19:10.:19:11.

We will do everything in our power to make sure that people are safe.

:19:12.:19:16.

Does it have to be a culture where you start putting health

:19:17.:19:20.

and safety first instead of cutting corners?

:19:21.:19:24.

What we need to do is to make sure that immediately people

:19:25.:19:27.

have the support that they need in order to deal with what is

:19:28.:19:30.

a horrific and terrible circumstance that people are in.

:19:31.:19:32.

We then also need to look at how this happened, why it happened,

:19:33.:19:35.

And if action needs to be taken, we will take it.

:19:36.:19:46.

And we should say the government says it did act on the coroner's

:19:47.:19:49.

recommendations following the Camberwell tower fire by writing

:19:50.:19:51.

to social housing landlords asking them to consider fitting sprinklers

:19:52.:19:53.

It also says it has been consulting on revised building regulations.

:19:54.:20:04.

It will be a while before we know for sure what caused

:20:05.:20:07.

the Grenfell Tower fire and what led it to consume the building

:20:08.:20:10.

But already questions have been asked about the cladding applied

:20:11.:20:18.

Newsnight revealed on Wednesday that it contained plastic

:20:19.:20:23.

and was less fire resistant than others available.

:20:24.:20:26.

Our producer Phil Kemp has been investigating possible

:20:27.:20:27.

Yesterday we heard from the fire protection Association about their

:20:28.:20:40.

concerns used in Malta construction and the fire risk they pose. That

:20:41.:20:48.

isn't just the cladding. -- used in their construction. This

:20:49.:20:50.

polyethylene core which is less fire resistant than other types

:20:51.:20:55.

available. But also the plastic insulation, the foam which sits

:20:56.:21:00.

between the wall and this cladding. There has been a push in recent

:21:01.:21:03.

years to make these apartment buildings more energy efficient. All

:21:04.:21:08.

over the country. But in doing that and with the best of intentions it

:21:09.:21:15.

seems we may have introduced a new fire risk. Interestingly, I spoke to

:21:16.:21:21.

the fire Chief of Frankfurt. Frankfurt is a city with lots of

:21:22.:21:26.

high-rise buildings. He told me these types of combustible products

:21:27.:21:30.

simply could not be used in high-rise buildings in Germany. They

:21:31.:21:34.

haven't been used for years. It's also the case in Germany that they

:21:35.:21:39.

do not use lots of products we use here that have a particular fire

:21:40.:21:42.

retardant because of the toxic chemical it gives off when it is on

:21:43.:21:47.

fire that are potentially lethal to people. Different standards between

:21:48.:21:52.

what we do here and in Germany. You talked about the cladding. But

:21:53.:21:56.

this might also be something internal to the buildings.

:21:57.:22:00.

I spoke to another expert this morning. He was telling me that in a

:22:01.:22:04.

block like Grenfell Tower all of the fronts of the flats have to be fire

:22:05.:22:09.

safe doors in their own right. And they also have to be self closing.

:22:10.:22:14.

That is because if a fire breaks out in a flat it'll contain it and stop

:22:15.:22:17.

it from spreading throughout the block. We know there has been an

:22:18.:22:38.

issue with other blocks owned by the same company. This might be relevant

:22:39.:22:41.

in the Grenfell Tower case because there was smoke in the stairwells.

:22:42.:22:45.

We've also heard the story of a neighbour who is able to look

:22:46.:22:49.

straight into the flat were apparently a fridge exploded. The

:22:50.:22:53.

expert I spoke to said that suggests there might be a problem with the

:22:54.:22:57.

self closing door in that case. What is emerging now is the possibility

:22:58.:23:01.

that there is a combination of different factors. Both internally

:23:02.:23:05.

and externally that might be coming together in a perfect storm to lead

:23:06.:23:09.

to this devastating fire. Thank you very much.

:23:10.:23:12.

Extraordinary to think this time last week the nation was just trying

:23:13.:23:15.

to get to grips with an election result very few had seen coming.

:23:16.:23:18.

A week on there is still no official deal between

:23:19.:23:21.

the Conservatives and the DUP - but there are very few Conservatives

:23:22.:23:25.

willing Theresa May to go - so loath are they to contemplate

:23:26.:23:32.

We went to a marginal seat in North London -

:23:33.:23:36.

where many voters abandoned the Conservatives to

:23:37.:23:37.

I was keen to find out what they had been voting for -

:23:38.:23:41.

and how they viewed the result we ended up with.

:23:42.:23:47.

David, I'm going to start with you, because you voted for the first

:23:48.:23:50.

time this time round, what was it that made you vote,

:23:51.:23:52.

Being 18 now, just two weeks after Brexit, I seemed to miss that.

:23:53.:24:00.

A lot of young people my age, me, as well,

:24:01.:24:04.

There was a lot of decisions being made that we had no option

:24:05.:24:09.

And it would affect us more than the older people who got

:24:10.:24:13.

So, to vote in this election was very important,

:24:14.:24:22.

because it actually, this time, seemed like

:24:23.:24:24.

I voted for my local MP, and I do also think Jeremy Corbyn

:24:25.:24:32.

is good as a leader of the Labour Party, yes.

:24:33.:24:34.

I wanted him to be Prime Minister more than I wanted Theresa May

:24:35.:24:37.

Mark, I'm going to come to you, what was it that pushed you to vote?

:24:38.:24:42.

So, my priorities in this vote was who's going to be the next

:24:43.:24:46.

And I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of Jeremy Corbyn

:24:47.:24:50.

being the next leader in Downing Street.

:24:51.:24:51.

And the reason for that is because there have been instances

:24:52.:24:54.

of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party.

:24:55.:24:58.

And I just don't think Jeremy Corbyn has done enough to tackle

:24:59.:25:01.

that and to put people from my community's mind at ease.

:25:02.:25:06.

So, for me it was largely about the leader.

:25:07.:25:08.

I'm not necessarily a Jeremy Corbyn fan, but I do think

:25:09.:25:11.

And I think for the first time, maybe in my voting life,

:25:12.:25:15.

there was a distinction between real socialism and Tory politics.

:25:16.:25:21.

And I felt like in new Labour they went so right of centre

:25:22.:25:25.

in order to capture the vote, the first time there really

:25:26.:25:28.

was a choice, I'm a socialist, of voting for socialist principles,

:25:29.:25:31.

Louise, when you hear people talking about, you know,

:25:32.:25:46.

a politician with integrity, versus the one that you voted for,

:25:47.:25:49.

Theresa May, or your local MP, what does it say to you?

:25:50.:25:52.

I personally feel Theresa May does have integrity.

:25:53.:25:53.

She is somebody who I prefer to other Tory politicians.

:25:54.:25:56.

She came from a grammar school background, not public school.

:25:57.:25:58.

But probably, security is on my mind at the moment.

:25:59.:26:08.

I've got three daughters growing up in this world, I live in London,

:26:09.:26:11.

I didn't feel comfortable, and when we talked about leader

:26:12.:26:13.

versus party, I didn't feel comfortable with Jeremy Corbyn

:26:14.:26:16.

Theresa May seems to be taking a very strong hand.

:26:17.:26:19.

Can I ask who else had terror in their minds,

:26:20.:26:24.

or the response to terror when they voted?

:26:25.:26:26.

I think in Labour's manifesto, talking about putting more

:26:27.:26:33.

into public security in terms of policing, things like that,

:26:34.:26:35.

that is what is going to counterterrorism.

:26:36.:26:38.

Not what things like Theresa May did by cutting police,

:26:39.:26:42.

cutting national security, if they had five, ten warnings

:26:43.:26:44.

about things that happened recently because of cuts.

:26:45.:26:47.

How many people voted Labour over terror but for different

:26:48.:26:58.

reasons to security, about public service cuts.

:26:59.:27:00.

Madeleine I want to come to you, because you were wavering right up

:27:01.:27:05.

until the moment when you put the cross in the box.

:27:06.:27:08.

For the first time in quite a few elections I actually

:27:09.:27:11.

got into the booth and, I have to say, I was wavering,

:27:12.:27:13.

where to put my cross, Conservative or labour.

:27:14.:27:15.

I went Conservative because I think we need continuity.

:27:16.:27:22.

I'm not sure if it was the right thing to do even now.

:27:23.:27:26.

Labour did get in in our constituency.

:27:27.:27:28.

There is the NHS, which is a big thing for me.

:27:29.:27:34.

All of those issues, there are so many issues,

:27:35.:27:40.

Can I ask how many people had Brexit on their mind?

:27:41.:27:43.

We were told at the beginning that this was a vote about Brexit.

:27:44.:27:48.

How many people went to the polls thinking about Brexit

:27:49.:27:50.

I did think about it, I really actually was happy with the result,

:27:51.:27:58.

because I think the Conservatives need to get on with it.

:27:59.:28:01.

So, for me, the fact that they don't have a huge majority

:28:02.:28:13.

is going to make it difficult to push through some

:28:14.:28:16.

Let them get on with this Brexit, because I want to see how

:28:17.:28:20.

Let me just ask you now with a show of hands,

:28:21.:28:24.

who feels they got the outcome from this election that they wanted?

:28:25.:28:26.

Interesting, so we've got one, two, three, four, five, OK.

:28:27.:28:32.

Let me ask the other way around, who feels it's a mess, where we are?

:28:33.:28:40.

It is reflective of how split the country is.

:28:41.:28:48.

John, you said out of chaos sometimes order emerges.

:28:49.:29:05.

Madeline, that's not your sense of this at all.

:29:06.:29:10.

I do feel a bit worried, I'm not a worrying person, really,

:29:11.:29:22.

but I feel there is so much going on, there's so many issues

:29:23.:29:25.

that need to be solved, and I wanted a continuation of something.

:29:26.:29:28.

I'm not sure if it is going to happen now.

:29:29.:29:30.

But by voting Tory I just thought keep it as it is for

:29:31.:29:33.

And to let Theresa May go through with the Brexit she has

:29:34.:29:38.

I'm not sure she can deliver it, but we shall see.

:29:39.:29:41.

For you as a Conservative, either of you two, do you feel

:29:42.:29:44.

I don't not trust her in terms of her character or her integrity.

:29:45.:29:50.

She took an awful lot for granted and certainly has egg on her face.

:29:51.:29:55.

And that bothers me that she has weakened our position in terms

:29:56.:29:58.

Although we had Jean-Claude Juncker saying he doesn't...

:29:59.:30:02.

You know, she's obviously the laughing stock over in Brussels.

:30:03.:30:04.

But I just, I hope we can get some stability soon and in order

:30:05.:30:08.

to type up the Brexit deal she's promising us.

:30:09.:30:10.

Do you resent this, Mark, as a, sort of, election?

:30:11.:30:12.

Do you feel she's put you, as a conservative voter,

:30:13.:30:15.

I just think it was very unnecessary.

:30:16.:30:17.

I know it's easy to say that in hindsight, but at a time

:30:18.:30:20.

when you need complete stability, there was just no

:30:21.:30:23.

I think it was a really bad error of judgment.

:30:24.:30:26.

Of the ones who voted Conservative, which of you like Theresa May

:30:27.:30:29.

as much, or more, than you did before the election?

:30:30.:30:31.

I didn't find her a hugely warm character.

:30:32.:30:35.

When she appeared on the One Show, it was embarrassing.

:30:36.:30:42.

So, what is the bit that you warm to?

:30:43.:30:44.

The confidence she gives me in the way she's going to continue

:30:45.:30:52.

Let me ask the Labour voters, which of you like Jeremy Corbyn

:30:53.:30:59.

as much or more since you voted, or since the election?

:31:00.:31:01.

I've liked him since I saw him as a local MP

:31:02.:31:05.

Do you think this is just about who won and who lost,

:31:06.:31:12.

not in actual numbers, but in terms of who was seen

:31:13.:31:14.

to have a good campaign, and who wasn't having

:31:15.:31:16.

I think this is something that doesn't necessarily just come

:31:17.:31:24.

I personally support Jeremy Corbyn because this

:31:25.:31:27.

is a process, this is a great, and what he represents

:31:28.:31:30.

It is a shift from this, kind of, establishment politics to something

:31:31.:31:34.

which is more for the community, the bottom, the people.

:31:35.:31:36.

Who here thinks Brexit won't actually happen now?

:31:37.:31:39.

Just a softer version than what she wanted.

:31:40.:31:47.

It is this word that hangs there, Brexit, what does it mean?

:31:48.:31:50.

When it happens we will have a list of things that our policies

:31:51.:31:55.

If we all turn against it all of us in this room say, no,

:31:56.:32:02.

that's going to affect my mum, the children, that's going to affect

:32:03.:32:05.

We can't have that happen to our country.

:32:06.:32:08.

I think that Britain will be outside the EU paying all the same

:32:09.:32:11.

fees for all the same privileges they have.

:32:12.:32:13.

They will not be part of Europe because we voted to be out of it.

:32:14.:32:24.

Does everyone agree with Paula on this one?

:32:25.:32:26.

But they are going to have to pay for it, because how can you trade,

:32:27.:32:30.

OK, let's have a look at domestic agenda.

:32:31.:32:33.

If there was one issue that really...

:32:34.:32:35.

Caught hold of you during this election, in domestic terms

:32:36.:32:37.

come away from Brexit, what was it?

:32:38.:32:39.

Last question, if there was an election next week,

:32:40.:32:49.

Who would vote for a Conservative other than Theresa May?

:32:50.:33:08.

If I said Boris Johnson, would you put your hand down?

:33:09.:33:12.

I was voting for Labour policies, not Jeremy Corbyn,

:33:13.:33:24.

but he is the leader, but I think it is about

:33:25.:33:27.

We need somebody inspirational to push it forward, but it should be

:33:28.:33:40.

I think it is a shame that we focus on the personalities of the leaders,

:33:41.:33:45.

It's what they do, not what they've said.

:33:46.:33:49.

It sounds like we should take this on to the pub now.

:33:50.:33:52.

Well a lot of the anger that we've been seeing today has been

:33:53.:33:56.

from friends and relatives who want to know what has happened

:33:57.:33:59.

The tower is now a burnt out shell - and the site of a criminal

:34:00.:34:04.

investigation, and toxic and strucutually unsafe.

:34:05.:34:05.

So how do they even begin to make sense of what actually happened

:34:06.:34:08.

in here on Tuesday night and how long will it be before forensic

:34:09.:34:11.

teams are able to provide answers as to who lost their lives inside.

:34:12.:34:14.

Lessons can be learnt from the aftermath of the 9/11

:34:15.:34:17.

One of the forensic pathologists of that catasrophe

:34:18.:34:25.

was Dr Judy Melinek - who joined me earleir

:34:26.:34:27.

I asked her what she had learnt then that could be shared with us now.

:34:28.:34:34.

A thorough investigation is not something that

:34:35.:34:36.

It takes weeks and even months, and sometimes up to and including

:34:37.:34:47.

years in order to get to the bottom of what happens.

:34:48.:34:50.

In the immediate aftermath, first and most importantly,

:34:51.:34:52.

the people who are responding and the supervisors in charge need

:34:53.:34:55.

to make sure that the structure is sufficiently safe and sound

:34:56.:35:00.

so that first responders who are going in there and those

:35:01.:35:03.

who are charged with the recovery of the remains are safe, as well,

:35:04.:35:06.

And the next step would be to collect important information

:35:07.:35:09.

About their ways to identify them, either identifying marks

:35:10.:35:13.

or scars, jewellery, tattoos and also collect DNA.

:35:14.:35:17.

And how difficult you think it will be to collect DNA?

:35:18.:35:21.

The most important thing is that we don't know at this

:35:22.:35:25.

particular point what the condition of the remains are.

:35:26.:35:28.

There could be a whole discrepancy between people who are intact,

:35:29.:35:31.

but just suffered from smoke inhalation, compared to people whose

:35:32.:35:35.

And a situation such as this you can have difficulty because,

:35:36.:35:48.

for example, in 9/11 we could get exemplar asked from the deceased.

:35:49.:35:51.

Or we could get the underwear of the person who is missing.

:35:52.:35:59.

And use that to compare them to the person.

:36:00.:36:02.

It easier to compare self to solve than to compare self to next of kin.

:36:03.:36:05.

And so in this particular situation, you've got people who are dead

:36:06.:36:08.

within their residencies, all of their personal

:36:09.:36:10.

property basically went up in flames with them,

:36:11.:36:12.

and so it seems that most likely the analyses are going to have to be

:36:13.:36:15.

to next of kin relatives, and that's more difficult.

:36:16.:36:17.

Am I right in thinking that in the Twin Towers, some 40%

:36:18.:36:20.

The reason for that is because of the forces at play

:36:21.:36:29.

in that particular incident where you had jet fuel.

:36:30.:36:31.

You had fires that went on for months.

:36:32.:36:40.

We don't have exactly the same scenario here,

:36:41.:36:42.

so I'm hopeful that DNA analysis will be more fruitful

:36:43.:36:45.

This will be devastating news to many of the families.

:36:46.:36:50.

And they will want to know what happens if they don't get

:36:51.:36:54.

In the United States for 911 victims who were not identified

:36:55.:37:01.

based on their bodies, there was a legal process put

:37:02.:37:05.

into place, a judicial process, where the person was declared dead

:37:06.:37:09.

and a death certificate was created so that the families

:37:10.:37:11.

could then have closure, close-out financial concerns,

:37:12.:37:13.

and move on, even though the body parts had not yet been identified.

:37:14.:37:16.

And if and when DNA analysis occurred at a later time those data

:37:17.:37:22.

points were merged with the death certificate that was put

:37:23.:37:24.

At least the death certificate allows the family to move on.

:37:25.:37:31.

Even when remains are taking longer to identify.

:37:32.:37:33.

You started by saying that the key was communication.

:37:34.:37:37.

Do you think authorities have explained fully enough here just how

:37:38.:37:40.

lengthy and difficult a process this will be?

:37:41.:37:42.

I think it is important that they set up a command centre

:37:43.:37:48.

and that they have public relation staff who are on hand to be able

:37:49.:37:51.

Typically what happens is we will set up a family centre

:37:52.:37:59.

separate from the coroner's office so that the families can go

:38:00.:38:01.

And in this particular situation you have people who are in need

:38:02.:38:06.

So that can all be centralised and you can use that family centre

:38:07.:38:12.

as a repository for also collecting information about the deceased

:38:13.:38:16.

and people who are missing, and also exemplars for DNA analysis.

:38:17.:38:19.

And, some rampages. The same story but reported with different leads --

:38:20.:38:36.

before we go, I will go through some of the front pages. The protest

:38:37.:38:42.

moves onto the street. The Daily Telegraph, militants hijacked the

:38:43.:38:49.

protest, they have accused them of exploiting it. This headline, it was

:38:50.:39:04.

murdered. And there is a tale of two photos with the Queen and Theresa

:39:05.:39:05.

May. That's all from us at the end

:39:06.:39:08.

of a week - and a fortnight - that will be remembered in this

:39:09.:39:11.

country for a very long time. It is a dry, settled and sunny story

:39:12.:39:54.

for many of us this weekend, hardly a cloud in the sky across much of

:39:55.:39:59.

England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Some sunshine in eastern Scotland,

:40:00.:40:05.

but the far north-west remaining cloudy and down at times, but by the

:40:06.:40:06.

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