20/06/2017 Newsnight


20/06/2017

The Queen's Speech is on Wednesday - but there is no majority in Parliament. Lord Heseltine speaks to Newsnight, plus news of Barclays fraud charges and the latest on Grenfell.


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For 60 years the Queen has been delivering her speech

:00:12.:00:14.

at the opening of Parliament - but has she ever seen

:00:15.:00:16.

A minority government, with no deal and a weakened leader.

:00:17.:00:24.

How can the Government begin to set the agenda

:00:25.:00:27.

Nine years on from the financial crash,

:00:28.:00:41.

Barclays bankers face charges - is this a moment for major public

:00:42.:00:44.

catharsis against those we thought untouchable?

:00:45.:00:53.

And the printed press turning up the dial on Jeremy Corbyn.

:00:54.:00:57.

Did the tabloid propaganda machine misfire, or has

:00:58.:00:59.

We all have to recognise that we don't have a monopoly now.

:01:00.:01:06.

We've got new forces, disruptive forces that

:01:07.:01:08.

are fundamentally changing the media landscape.

:01:09.:01:21.

There is something vaguely absurd about the prospect

:01:22.:01:25.

Perhaps it was the dawning realisation that led to a stripping

:01:26.:01:40.

down of the pomp and ceremony of tomorrow's Queen's Speech. Gone, we

:01:41.:01:44.

now understand, will be elements usually reserved for such occasions.

:01:45.:01:47.

Strangely appropriate, for a government having to moderate its

:01:48.:01:49.

own ambition. The first Queen's Speech

:01:50.:01:51.

after an election is traditionally a time to reassure the people

:01:52.:01:53.

there is a steady hand. A sense of direction,

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and a parliamentary agenda to be laid out -

:01:56.:01:57.

the product of the nation's vote. We returned a minority government -

:01:58.:02:01.

with as yet no DUP deal - We are revisiting questions

:02:02.:02:08.

about the decisions taken a year ago And we have emerged

:02:09.:02:13.

from the horrific events of recent Our political editor

:02:14.:02:19.

Nick Watt is here for us. We're going to start with the deal,

:02:20.:02:31.

or no Deal, with the DUP? The mood music between them did not look

:02:32.:02:36.

great today. At Stormont, the DUP said the Tories mustn't take them

:02:37.:02:39.

for granted. It feels to me there will be a version of the supply am

:02:40.:02:43.

confident steel, that is not a full coalition, possibly on Thursday this

:02:44.:02:48.

week. As I understand it, the DUP is looking at two core principles. In

:02:49.:02:53.

the first instance, as Unionists, they would like to get games for the

:02:54.:02:58.

United Kingdom as a whole. Maybe deep pension triple lock will

:02:59.:03:01.

survive. In the second place, they want gains for Northern Ireland.

:03:02.:03:05.

Crucially, they are saying this will not be for the DUP, they will be for

:03:06.:03:09.

Northern Ireland as a whole, a big emphasis on building up and

:03:10.:03:13.

improving what they describe as Northern Ireland's creaking

:03:14.:03:18.

infrastructure. Where do you see us on Brexit? The numbers in parliament

:03:19.:03:23.

after the election have moved in a mildly soft Brexit direction. I have

:03:24.:03:27.

been speaking to senior Tories who believe they can stop the government

:03:28.:03:33.

leaving the EU without a deal. They are saying that, if such a scenario

:03:34.:03:37.

is looming, they would be able to pass, they would have the numbers to

:03:38.:03:41.

pass, a very simple amendment to the Repeal Bill, the measure that will

:03:42.:03:45.

convert the body of all EU law into UK law, before the UK decides which

:03:46.:03:50.

bits it wants to get rid of. That amendment would, very simply, they

:03:51.:03:57.

say, cancelled the repeal of the 1972 European Communities Act, which

:03:58.:04:01.

provided the lawful basis for our accession into the EEC, which then

:04:02.:04:08.

became the EU. The idea is this, they want to discourage the

:04:09.:04:12.

Government from going down the no Deal route, by saying in Parliament,

:04:13.:04:15.

could complicate Brexit effectively obliging ministers to go back to the

:04:16.:04:23.

EU and ask for an extension of the article 15 negotiations. Westminster

:04:24.:04:29.

now has a very different feel with a minority government. I have been

:04:30.:04:33.

looking at how tomorrow might pan out.

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As the UK Basques in glorious sunshine, you could be forgiven for

:04:39.:04:43.

thinking we have stepped back in time. It was for decades ago that

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Britain experienced a prolonged heatwave and life under a government

:04:49.:04:52.

with a tenuous grip on Parliament. Westminster will be treated to a

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familiar sight tomorrow, as Her Majesty breaks into Royal Ascot to

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deliver her delayed Queen's Speech. The pomp and ceremony, slimmed down

:05:01.:05:05.

in the circumstances, will suggest that the ship of state sales on in

:05:06.:05:10.

magisterial style. But this will be a minority government that will have

:05:11.:05:15.

to cut deals to survive. Theresa May had hoped to secure a deal with the

:05:16.:05:19.

DUP by tomorrow. That has still not been agreed, giving a taste of how

:05:20.:05:24.

challenging this parliament will be for the Tories. There is a good

:05:25.:05:27.

chance it will be similar to the 70s, given the government is in a

:05:28.:05:32.

minority. One significant votes, it will need to have a full turnout. It

:05:33.:05:36.

will depend on the measure. Don't forget, the Government is a minority

:05:37.:05:43.

in relation to all other parties, not the opposition. It could be

:05:44.:05:46.

trench warfare in terms of committees, not just on the floor of

:05:47.:05:49.

the house. Labour plans to make life very difficult for the Prime

:05:50.:05:53.

Minister, amid high hopes that a second election may have to be

:05:54.:05:58.

called. Where we have just had a new parliament re-elected and the

:05:59.:06:00.

Conservative manifesto was actually trashed before the election was even

:06:01.:06:05.

over, you wonder why they want to be in power when they don't have a

:06:06.:06:09.

programme. In the end, we have to move forward as a society, with a

:06:10.:06:13.

government that knows what it wants to do, with a programme to make

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society better, instead of one that is adrift. I think that is the

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danger, after this election, for the current Conservative government. The

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Queen will travel along this well trodden route tomorrow, although the

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day will have a slightly less formal feel about it. His speech will

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herald a Parliament that will ultimately be defined by Brexit.

:06:34.:06:37.

There will be a series of bills to provide a legal basis for the UK's

:06:38.:06:43.

new life outside the EU. But the election has changed the

:06:44.:06:46.

parliamentary numbers and senior Tories now believe there is a

:06:47.:06:48.

majority to stop a so-called hard Brexit. That is leaving the EU

:06:49.:06:55.

without a deal. The outcome of the election puts tremendous pressure on

:06:56.:06:59.

the Government. Obviously in relation to the actual negotiations

:07:00.:07:03.

themselves, but now in relation to the House of Commons. The pressures

:07:04.:07:11.

its placing on government are twofold, one is in relation to its

:07:12.:07:14.

own supporters, and the other is the House of Commons. To maximise impact

:07:15.:07:17.

it needs to carry the whole house with it. It may need to think about

:07:18.:07:22.

how it achieves that, in terms of keeping the house informed, but also

:07:23.:07:27.

listening to the house. A chastened Theresa May will declare tomorrow

:07:28.:07:31.

she will govern with humility and resolve. In addition to the Brexit

:07:32.:07:35.

legislation, there will be draft bills on domestic violence and

:07:36.:07:39.

tenant fees, designed to attract consensus. The Prime Minister wants

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to show that, even without a parliamentary majority, she can make

:07:45.:07:47.

a difference. As the Prime Minister said after the election, we got more

:07:48.:07:51.

votes and more seats than anybody else, albeit not the result we

:07:52.:07:55.

wanted. I think it is still a very ambitious Government and there is a

:07:56.:07:58.

lot to get done. Delivering Brexit and also delivering on the domestic

:07:59.:08:02.

agenda, big things that will change peoples lives in a very significant

:08:03.:08:12.

way. Actually, I think there will be quite a lot of consensus in

:08:13.:08:14.

Parliament. Lots of debate about the details, but actually updating

:08:15.:08:16.

mental health legislation, something that I think will have a great deal

:08:17.:08:19.

of sporty consensus. The Queen will be hoping she can return to royal as

:08:20.:08:23.

got after her duties in Parliament. There will be no such relaxation at

:08:24.:08:27.

Westminster. Our once strong and stable Prime Minister will be

:08:28.:08:33.

embarking a dramatic scaling back of her election manifesto in her bid

:08:34.:08:34.

for political survival. Earlier this evening,

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I spoke to someone who's seen a few Queen's Speeches in his time,

:08:38.:08:39.

the Conservative I asked him what his advice

:08:40.:08:41.

to Theresa May would I think that it's not conceivable

:08:42.:08:44.

that she will lead the Conservatives So I think that the realistic

:08:45.:08:54.

appraisal she has to make is how does she secure the best possible

:08:55.:08:59.

successor for the And that may need a bit

:09:00.:09:01.

of time because two things First of all the who,

:09:02.:09:06.

and there's no obvious choice. Secondly and probably even more

:09:07.:09:13.

important, the what. My guess is general election

:09:14.:09:18.

in the year, 18 months' time, and the period between now and then

:09:19.:09:26.

is going to be dominated by the same issues that have caused the trouble,

:09:27.:09:29.

the continuing austerity In a sense then it doesn't

:09:30.:09:31.

matter what she says, if you think she's not going to be

:09:32.:09:48.

around to implement it or to be I think that the Queen's speech

:09:49.:09:52.

is going to be dominated by the jumbo Brexit Bill

:09:53.:09:58.

and a number of smaller Brexit bills, and everything else

:09:59.:10:00.

will be relatively obscure And if Theresa May goes,

:10:01.:10:02.

does she take her own version I think that the idea of a hard

:10:03.:10:09.

Brexit is not credible. I don't think there is the majority

:10:10.:10:20.

for it in Parliament. We have a split Cabinet,

:10:21.:10:23.

we have a split country. And the opening shot, if you like,

:10:24.:10:26.

yesterday, the first meeting, we lost the argument on the issue

:10:27.:10:33.

of the bill we are We wanted to get on to the trade

:10:34.:10:36.

issues, that are vitally important. The French and the

:10:37.:10:46.

Europeans said no. Do you think Brexit

:10:47.:10:47.

as it stands is dead? In the hard sense that we're

:10:48.:10:56.

going to leave the whole thing and be our own independent sovereign

:10:57.:11:01.

nation, that is simply not the way I think that is very much

:11:02.:11:04.

open to question now. You, sir, are a staunch,

:11:05.:11:16.

unashamed Remainer. There will be many here

:11:17.:11:19.

saying you're just hearing Well, it's not really

:11:20.:11:22.

what I want to hear. Because I'm seeing my

:11:23.:11:31.

country humiliated. You know, though, that a change

:11:32.:11:34.

in leadership would be done by Tory party members

:11:35.:11:36.

and they are overwhelmingly Or do you think that there should

:11:37.:11:38.

be another coronation It would be better if there

:11:39.:11:50.

could be an agreement that wasn't as a consequence

:11:51.:11:54.

of the divisive leadership struggle. Well, the leadership struggle

:11:55.:11:57.

is already beginning. I mean, great protests of unity,

:11:58.:12:10.

we all know the form. But the friends of each

:12:11.:12:13.

of the potential participants are canvassing the House of Commons,

:12:14.:12:17.

looking for support. We are seeing the government,

:12:18.:12:19.

minority government, without yet the support of the DUP,

:12:20.:12:24.

do you think Conservatives are better off with

:12:25.:12:27.

a deal, or without one? I don't think it is relevant,

:12:28.:12:31.

because it won't last long enough Simply the by-election phenomenon,

:12:32.:12:34.

which will start, unavoidably, will reflect public disquiet,

:12:35.:12:44.

which is always there It is a bigger threat than can be

:12:45.:12:46.

met by what looks like a very fragile relationship,

:12:47.:12:51.

if it happens, with the DUP. So is there anything that

:12:52.:12:56.

Theresa May can say tomorrow which would give her the authority

:12:57.:12:59.

to reset the clock and start again? I think it will need

:13:00.:13:05.

a new leader to do that. We did ask the Government

:13:06.:13:09.

for an interview, but they declined. So let's talk to their designated

:13:10.:13:16.

surrogate, Tory MP Chris Philp. Nice to have you here. I suspect

:13:17.:13:25.

there will be a lot of you disagree with in that interview. He painted a

:13:26.:13:31.

picture of a leader on borrowed time? I don't recognise that. There

:13:32.:13:36.

is a lot in Lord Heseltine's comments I disagree with. The two

:13:37.:13:41.

main parties, who got 80% of the vote in the election, both said

:13:42.:13:43.

clearly we are going to leave the European Union, we are going to come

:13:44.:13:46.

out of the customs union and single market. So nothing has to change on

:13:47.:13:51.

the directional Brexit? I don't think so, the two main parties have

:13:52.:13:55.

the same things in their manifesto. Why did your Chancellor today

:13:56.:13:59.

suggest a very different set of priorities? I don't think he did. He

:14:00.:14:03.

said we are leaving the European Union, we are going to be leaving

:14:04.:14:08.

the customs union. He said we would be prioritising the economy in the

:14:09.:14:11.

negotiations. In terms of the free trade deal. There is no change

:14:12.:14:16.

there. If you look at the Lancaster house speech, the Brexit White

:14:17.:14:19.

Paper, it was clear in those documents... Theresa May is going to

:14:20.:14:22.

carry you through a five-year parliament to the next election? You

:14:23.:14:27.

believe that? I haven't got a crystal ball. What is that code for?

:14:28.:14:32.

It is not code for anything. I thought we would vote to Remain and

:14:33.:14:36.

Donald Trump would never become President, so I have given up making

:14:37.:14:41.

political predictions. The 1922 Committee, a week ago, all of my

:14:42.:14:47.

parliamentary colleagues, 320 of us, were cheering the Prime Minister,

:14:48.:14:50.

coming back, having beaten the Labour Party by 60 seats and 1

:14:51.:14:54.

million votes. We are all firmly behind her. Do you agree the

:14:55.:14:58.

manifesto has been ditched and something has to be much more

:14:59.:14:59.

consensual? I am quite excited for what we can

:15:00.:15:09.

do with that country in the coming years especially helping those on

:15:10.:15:13.

low income and those just about managing. So in the manifesto, in

:15:14.:15:17.

the Queen's Speech I expect confirmation that are going to keep

:15:18.:15:21.

on putting up the minimum wage and raised tax threshold to help those

:15:22.:15:27.

on lower incomes. And police cuts? We've already said that we will

:15:28.:15:32.

protect police budgets. That is different, police funding is the end

:15:33.:15:35.

to specific police cuts which have been going ahead, which we are now

:15:36.:15:39.

hearing will not be taken. So the police budget is to be protected and

:15:40.:15:46.

has been pretty years. There was a proposal to change the way it was

:15:47.:15:51.

allocated between different regions. Will it change direction, we heard a

:15:52.:15:54.

lot of things like she will not come for free school meals for children,

:15:55.:15:59.

or takeaway much-needed funding for police on the front line of terror.

:16:00.:16:04.

I think the message is to learn from the election. But on the terror

:16:05.:16:11.

funding, we are spending ?2 billion extra on anti-terrorism. That was

:16:12.:16:14.

announced a year ago so there is more money going into that. Where

:16:15.:16:20.

are we now with the DUP, you heard Lord Heseltine said was irrelevant

:16:21.:16:23.

because there simply will not be a government for long. I simply do not

:16:24.:16:29.

agree, last week I saw three and interviewed my colleagues

:16:30.:16:31.

enthusiastically supporting the government. Just on the DUP

:16:32.:16:35.

specifically? The deal has not been reached and the government and Prime

:16:36.:16:41.

Ministers have been busy this week with Brexit negotiations and that

:16:42.:16:43.

terrible fire. I'm confident that there will be an agreement reached.

:16:44.:16:47.

And you look forward to that? I think there will be a sensible

:16:48.:16:52.

arrangement. They do not want to see Jeremy Corbyn running the country

:16:53.:16:56.

any more than will -- than we do. Of course it would be a confidence and

:16:57.:17:01.

supply arrangement. Does it make you got going into government with the

:17:02.:17:06.

DUP? It is not the coalition, it is a confident and supply arrangement.

:17:07.:17:12.

And I think that will happen. And we will deliver things like the energy

:17:13.:17:18.

cap to help ordinary families, extra for the NHS and school. Thank you

:17:19.:17:20.

very much. Back to that delayed deal

:17:21.:17:22.

between the Tories and the DUP. In Northern Irish politics the past

:17:23.:17:24.

is rarely another country, and that can make for some uneasy

:17:25.:17:27.

alliances - the DUP as a party come to the table

:17:28.:17:29.

with a fair amount of baggage. John Sweeney has been taking

:17:30.:17:32.

a closer look at who they are, Northern Ireland is part

:17:33.:17:35.

of the United Kingdom but some of what happens here is quite

:17:36.:17:57.

different to what goes It is the preparations

:17:58.:18:01.

for a bloody good bonfire, to celebrate the victory

:18:02.:18:09.

of a Protestant king against a Catholic King,

:18:10.:18:11.

in the 17th century. Theresa May's government

:18:12.:18:20.

cannot survive long without the support of ten MPs

:18:21.:18:23.

from the Democratic Unionist Party. The DUP was founded by the late

:18:24.:18:27.

Reverend Ian Paisley in 1971 when both sides of the sectarian

:18:28.:18:33.

divide reached for their guns. And this the late

:18:34.:18:40.

Martin McGuinness - once the chief of staff -

:18:41.:18:46.

and much later, Northern Ireland's And this was Gregory Campbell,

:18:47.:18:49.

with his legally held revolver. Today he is one

:18:50.:18:57.

of the DUP's ten MPs. You either be killed

:18:58.:19:01.

by them, or kill them. Sam McBride reports

:19:02.:19:03.

for the main loyalist newspaper There is no sense that the DUP

:19:04.:19:13.

is anywhere near as closely aligned to loyalist paramilitaries

:19:14.:19:22.

as Sinn Fein would I think the relationship

:19:23.:19:24.

between the DUP and loyalist paramilitaries or those who are very

:19:25.:19:27.

close to loyalist paramilitaries But because Number Ten needs

:19:28.:19:29.

the DUP, the spotlight is fiercely In particular the Ulster Defence

:19:30.:19:35.

Association, the UDA. Banned in 1992 but still

:19:36.:19:43.

very much in business. The troubles are over, but

:19:44.:19:49.

the killing is not ancient history. Late last month a man

:19:50.:19:52.

called Colin Horner, who people said was an activist

:19:53.:19:54.

in the UDA, took his little boy shopping

:19:55.:19:57.

in the Sainsbury's behind me. Shopping done, the little boy

:19:58.:20:00.

was in the car when a man came up It is believed this is an internal

:20:01.:20:04.

power struggle in the UDA. A few days later, Arlene Foster,

:20:05.:20:09.

the leader of the DUP, meets Jackie McDonald,

:20:10.:20:13.

who many people believe is the effective leader of the UDA

:20:14.:20:16.

in Northern Ireland. So at its most charitable,

:20:17.:20:21.

this does not look good for the DUP, or the people

:20:22.:20:24.

they are negotiating with. Arlene Foster was at her

:20:25.:20:30.

feisty best when tackled about the paramilitaries

:20:31.:20:35.

during the election. We condemn utterly the murder

:20:36.:20:39.

that occurred on Sunday. Such a horrific murder

:20:40.:20:43.

in front of a child, who will never be able

:20:44.:20:45.

to get over that. That will stay with that child

:20:46.:20:48.

for the rest of his young life. Just to be clear, that the UDA,

:20:49.:20:52.

the UVF and every paramilitary organisation should be

:20:53.:20:55.

out of existence. Did you say that to Jackie McDonald

:20:56.:20:59.

yesterday when you met him? I had no need to say

:21:00.:21:02.

it to Jackie McDonald. Jackie McDonald knows my views

:21:03.:21:04.

very, very clearly. If people want to move away

:21:05.:21:07.

from criminality, from terrorism, But anyone who is engaged in this

:21:08.:21:09.

sort of activity should stop, should desist, and if they don't,

:21:10.:21:16.

they should be open Alistair Ross was a DUP Minister

:21:17.:21:19.

in the Northern Ireland I can understand why that

:21:20.:21:27.

reception looked pretty bad, but of course many politicians

:21:28.:21:36.

in all parties are working with people in difficult

:21:37.:21:38.

to reach communities. And actually most of the last ten

:21:39.:21:40.

years has been a criticism of politicians for not engaging

:21:41.:21:43.

with people and trying to move them Just before the election,

:21:44.:21:46.

the Loyalist Communities Council, widely held to speak for the UDA,

:21:47.:21:54.

the UVF and the Red Hand commando, issued a statement, calling

:21:55.:21:58.

for every unionist to vote for three Nigel Dodds, Gavin Robinson,

:21:59.:22:00.

and Emma Little-Pengelly. The DUP told Newsnight

:22:01.:22:10.

that the party had rejected the endorsement, and that applied

:22:11.:22:15.

to the three MPs. Did these MPs, did they say, no

:22:16.:22:21.

thank you, we don't want your help? I think Emma Little-Pengelly

:22:22.:22:24.

actually posted something on Facebook just after

:22:25.:22:27.

the endorsement where she certainly wasn't saying that she welcomed it,

:22:28.:22:30.

but there was an implicit acceptance of it where she was effectively

:22:31.:22:36.

saying that just as loyalists have a past, it doesn't mean

:22:37.:22:38.

they shouldn't have a future. She was I suppose giving a nod

:22:39.:22:44.

and a wink to those people that she accepted their endorsement,

:22:45.:22:48.

she wasn't going to Other DUP figures in other parts

:22:49.:22:50.

of Northern Ireland were not so happy with it and were very keen

:22:51.:22:53.

to get out there that really I want to thank the people

:22:54.:22:57.

of Taughmonagh... In her victory speech,

:22:58.:23:01.

Little-Pengelly thanked specific Starting with Taughmonagh,

:23:02.:23:03.

which so happens to be the home turf This is an incredible day

:23:04.:23:09.

for unionism in south Belfast. This is the future

:23:10.:23:15.

of Northern Ireland. Behind me there they are putting

:23:16.:23:25.

together wind turbines. But we have just spoken

:23:26.:23:28.

to somebody whose words take us He is a Protestant who has been

:23:29.:23:30.

a victim of UDA violence, and he says the UDA and the DUP

:23:31.:23:37.

are far too close. He says he has seen with his

:23:38.:23:43.

own eyes the UDA get Because he was afraid

:23:44.:23:45.

of what might happen to him In Northern Ireland both sides

:23:46.:23:54.

in politics know people But only one side is going to keep

:23:55.:24:03.

Theresa May in power. We have just finished a meeting

:24:04.:24:09.

with the British Prime Minister And we told her very directly

:24:10.:24:15.

that she was in breach Will fringe elements of the IRA keep

:24:16.:24:20.

sitting on their hands? The bad news is that the marching

:24:21.:24:32.

season is about to start and the nationalist hard man

:24:33.:24:34.

who secured peace, Newsnight asked the DUP

:24:35.:24:37.

about this allegation. A spokesperson said that there can

:24:38.:24:48.

be no place for any paramilitary And it is easier for unnamed sources

:24:49.:24:51.

to make allegations than to present We asked for an interview

:24:52.:24:56.

with the three DUP MPs endorsed Britain's Serious Fraud Office has

:24:57.:25:02.

defied critics who accuse it of failing to pursue those

:25:03.:25:10.

at the top by criminally charging Barclays and four

:25:11.:25:12.

former senior managers. The charges were over

:25:13.:25:16.

undisclosed Barclays payments to Qatari Investors during emergency

:25:17.:25:20.

fundraising in 2008 that allowed the bank to turn down a state

:25:21.:25:23.

bailout at the height The move surprised many -

:25:24.:25:25.

and of course there have as yet been no convictions -

:25:26.:25:32.

but it may be a defining cathartic moment for those who believed

:25:33.:25:36.

the big were too big to fail - Once the public's lust for justice

:25:37.:25:39.

was carried out in Execution Dock Today a commemorative

:25:40.:25:49.

gallows swings within sight There an industry that has in recent

:25:50.:25:56.

years certainly felt the scorching But this is a different kind

:25:57.:26:02.

of public spectacle. The Serious Fraud Office has charged

:26:03.:26:07.

Barclays and four of its former The charges relate to ?12 billion

:26:08.:26:10.

in emergency funds raised by the bank from Qatari investors

:26:11.:26:16.

in the midst of The seriousness of it comes

:26:17.:26:19.

about for two reasons. One is the seniority

:26:20.:26:27.

of the people who now, for them, unfortunately find themselves

:26:28.:26:29.

in the dock. And secondly, because the SFO has

:26:30.:26:31.

chosen to charge Barclays itself as a corporate entity

:26:32.:26:34.

with a criminal offence. And I cannot think of another

:26:35.:26:35.

example where the Serious Fraud Office has brought criminal charges

:26:36.:26:38.

against a household and global household name like it

:26:39.:26:41.

has in this instance. The bank and four former Barclays

:26:42.:26:49.

executives face charges of conspiracy to commit fraud

:26:50.:26:52.

by false representation relating to a first

:26:53.:27:05.

deal in June 2008. The bank and former chief

:27:06.:27:07.

executive John Varley as well as Roger Jenkins,

:27:08.:27:11.

a key deal-maker, face the same charge relating to another

:27:12.:27:13.

October 2008 fundraising. They are also charged

:27:14.:27:15.

with what is called unlawful Fraud by false representation refers

:27:16.:27:17.

to ?322 million paid to Qatar for The allegation is that these

:27:18.:27:27.

payments were not all But for some the issue goes

:27:28.:27:31.

beyond a simple disclosure one. Fundamentally the issue

:27:32.:27:39.

is not one of disclosure, And a criminal charge of fraud

:27:40.:27:41.

by way of misrepresentation requires the prosecution,

:27:42.:27:50.

the SFO, to show that those it says acted wrongly,

:27:51.:27:52.

acted in a dishonest fashion. It is the element of dishonesty that

:27:53.:27:57.

moves this from a regulatory investigation conducted,

:27:58.:27:59.

for example, by the Financial Conduct Authority,

:28:00.:28:01.

into a criminal prosecution. The second charges is unlawful

:28:02.:28:16.

financial assistance. That alleges that Barclays

:28:17.:28:21.

in November 2008 lent And in doing so Barclays effectively

:28:22.:28:22.

provided some of the funds The most damning part of this

:28:23.:28:26.

is the financial assistance. So if you look at the companies act

:28:27.:28:30.

2006, what you find is a section there which says that a company

:28:31.:28:33.

cannot lend money to another financial vehicle company and that

:28:34.:28:36.

other companies then buys the shares So this is what was

:28:37.:28:39.

allegedly happening here. Where Barclays was giving money

:28:40.:28:45.

to a Qatari investment vehicle, and that vehicle was then buying

:28:46.:28:48.

shares of Barclays Now, this is problematic because it

:28:49.:28:50.

dilutes the capital base of the first company and if things

:28:51.:29:03.

go wrong, both of the companies The irony is that thanks to this

:29:04.:29:06.

deal, Barclays did not need public money when its peers

:29:07.:29:10.

were bailed out. And these charges have nothing

:29:11.:29:12.

at all to do with the causes As much as anything

:29:13.:29:14.

Barclays' old hard charging And the lengths it was prepared

:29:15.:29:17.

to go to to avoid public ownership. Andre Spicer did some work

:29:18.:29:24.

with Barclays around changing its culture

:29:25.:29:27.

following the crisis. I guess the step is showing

:29:28.:29:33.

that they are able to hold The big danger, which has

:29:34.:29:36.

happened now, is the banks seem to have said yes,

:29:37.:29:40.

we have de-risked our business, yes, we have become more ethical, yes,

:29:41.:29:42.

we have got these lovely posters which show us how caring

:29:43.:29:45.

and kind they are. But have they really

:29:46.:29:47.

change their culture internally? Or are we beginning to see some

:29:48.:29:54.

of the bad practices seep back in? And are we just going to see a sort

:29:55.:29:58.

of repeat of some of the problems The Barclays of today is keen to put

:29:59.:30:02.

the Qatar fundraising behind it. The bank said it is considering its

:30:03.:30:06.

position in relation to the charges. Mr Jenkins and another executive,

:30:07.:30:09.

Richard Both, said they contest Mr Varley and the fourth executive

:30:10.:30:12.

have yet to comment. They will appear in

:30:13.:30:15.

court on July the 3rd. Now, since the Grenfell fire last

:30:16.:30:21.

week, we have been looking at the role that the new cladding

:30:22.:30:23.

around the building may have played. Yesterday we reported that local

:30:24.:30:26.

councils had been asked by the Government to report back

:30:27.:30:28.

on the status of high rise Our Policy Editor Chris Cook

:30:29.:30:31.

is here with the latest on that. Where are we? The news is, as you

:30:32.:30:46.

say, we had the Government had asked local authorities to investigate

:30:47.:30:52.

their own blocks and housing associations. They asked them to

:30:53.:30:55.

send any samples of aluminium cladding they had to make sure it

:30:56.:31:01.

was not the sort of cladding we saw at Grenfell, aluminium cladding with

:31:02.:31:05.

a plastic cork, that was not the better, more fireproof cladding.

:31:06.:31:10.

Actually, the situation might be better than we feared last week. We

:31:11.:31:14.

know that in Scotland they have not found any, through their own

:31:15.:31:17.

processes, nor in Northern Ireland. We know in Birmingham, Leeds,

:31:18.:31:22.

restore, Wolverhampton, we have not found any. Manchester have almost

:31:23.:31:26.

finished their audit and have not found any. There were five blocks in

:31:27.:31:29.

Newcastle, where they were sending samples. There were 13 in Camden in

:31:30.:31:34.

London, three in new and three in barn, sending samples to test to see

:31:35.:31:42.

whether it is dangerous or not. They have already had the results back?

:31:43.:31:46.

The sending of samples is reassuring? Well, we haven't had the

:31:47.:31:55.

samples back. Only in the case of Barnett do we think it is the

:31:56.:32:01.

dangerous plastic cladding. That is the only case where we think there

:32:02.:32:03.

is prior reason to believe that is the case. Even in those cases, they

:32:04.:32:08.

are installed in a different way, they are surrounded by more

:32:09.:32:11.

fireproof material than was used at Grenfell and they have regular fire

:32:12.:32:15.

breaking. Even if something went wrong, it should hopefully be

:32:16.:32:18.

better. I appreciate if you live in one of these blocks, it is worrying

:32:19.:32:23.

and frightening. We have a picture of a quite troubling fire from

:32:24.:32:29.

Camden from 2012. As you can see, a pensioner's flat got absolutely

:32:30.:32:32.

gutted. This is in one of the blocks of flats where Camden has sent

:32:33.:32:38.

material to be tested at the government laboratory. I don't know

:32:39.:32:43.

if you saw that picture, the window was scorched, but it didn't spread,

:32:44.:32:47.

it was contained. Even these flats that have the aluminium cladding,

:32:48.:32:51.

they may be fine. Reassuring. Thank you very much.

:32:52.:32:58.

The day the Sun newspaper went full anti-Corbyn and splashed COR-BIN

:32:59.:33:03.

across it's front page there were - anecdotally - reports

:33:04.:33:06.

Copies of the paper picked up not by those who agreed with it -

:33:07.:33:10.

but by a whole younger crowd collecting them to set them

:33:11.:33:13.

In years to come,this election may come to be

:33:14.:33:16.

The point at which the old media - all of us - lost our power.

:33:17.:33:21.

Younger voters relied on their newsfeeds,

:33:22.:33:24.

full of stories that older generations simply werent seeing.

:33:25.:33:30.

So are the days when it was The Sun What Won it truly over?

:33:31.:33:33.

The BBC's media editor Amol Rajan reports.

:33:34.:33:48.

As you may have noticed, Theresa May wasn't returned

:33:49.:33:52.

to Downing Street with a thumping majority on June the 9th,

:33:53.:33:56.

despite all the warnings about the alternative

:33:57.:33:57.

from what we still call Fleet Street.

:33:58.:33:59.

We've had enough of Jezza's rubbish, vote Tory!

:34:00.:34:06.

Britain's newspapers aren't used to being defied.

:34:07.:34:08.

Once upon a time, when the papers spoke, the country listened.

:34:09.:34:12.

If Kinnock wins today, will the last person to leave

:34:13.:34:14.

We don't want to influence you in your final judgment

:34:15.:34:21.

on who will be Prime Minister, but if it's a bald bloke with wispy

:34:22.:34:24.

red hair and two Ks in his surname, we'll see you at the airport!

:34:25.:34:29.

Or, at least of the country appeared to have listened,

:34:30.:34:31.

But, news just in, print titles aren't the political power

:34:32.:34:38.

I have to hand it to Kelvin MacKenzie.

:34:39.:34:46.

Back in 92 he said, will the last person turn the lights off

:34:47.:34:49.

and essentially claimed all the credit for the Conservative

:34:50.:34:51.

In fact, that was probably the high point of influence of newspapers.

:34:52.:35:00.

There were other factors, they just got overwhelmed

:35:01.:35:02.

I think since then, relatively speaking,

:35:03.:35:07.

newspapers' influence has certainly declined.

:35:08.:35:11.

It's not irrelevant, but other voices, as you say,

:35:12.:35:14.

in a fragmented media landscape, have become more important.

:35:15.:35:22.

There is unanimous agreement that, with declining circulations

:35:23.:35:24.

and the shift to online, newspapers are weaker

:35:25.:35:25.

They don't have an overall majority at this stage.

:35:26.:35:29.

But perhaps the election of June 2017 was a turning point

:35:30.:35:31.

Going into the campaign, Theresa May generally received

:35:32.:35:37.

fawning coverage of a kind her predecessors could only dream of,

:35:38.:35:40.

while Jeremy Corbyn was pilloried as an anachronistic idealist.

:35:41.:35:43.

Revealed: Corbyn's manifesto to take Britain back to 1970s!

:35:44.:35:53.

And yet, for the first time in perhaps four decades,

:35:54.:35:56.

the likes of Rupert Murdoch and Lord Rothermere did not get

:35:57.:35:58.

the result they wanted, even though the PM was reinstalled

:35:59.:36:01.

Stephen, do you think Fleet Street underestimated Jeremy Corbyn?

:36:02.:36:04.

Yes, there is no doubt that they did.

:36:05.:36:06.

Not just Fleet Street, I mean half of the Labour Party

:36:07.:36:08.

most of the Tory party, most of the chattering

:36:09.:36:11.

Yet at one of the haunts favoured by hacks in years gone by,

:36:12.:36:21.

Stephen Glover of the Daily Mail warns that the influence

:36:22.:36:24.

I think people are often, particularly on the left,

:36:25.:36:27.

in danger of exaggerating the power of the right-wing press,

:36:28.:36:29.

as though the right-wing press decide the outcome of elections.

:36:30.:36:32.

If you look back to the 1990s, when Blair was courting

:36:33.:36:36.

The Sun and Rupert Murdoch, and in those days The Sun

:36:37.:36:39.

was selling twice as many copies as it does now.

:36:40.:36:42.

Well, I think that The Sun was following Blair as much

:36:43.:36:45.

as Blair was The Sun, and The Sun knew that some change

:36:46.:36:48.

was going on in society and it felt it from its readers.

:36:49.:36:51.

Like the Mail, the Daily Telegraph has historically been intimate

:36:52.:36:57.

Its editor argues that Jeremy Corbyn got the coverage he deserved.

:36:58.:37:02.

We were surprised that Mrs May didn't win a majority,

:37:03.:37:05.

We endorsed her because she was closest to our values.

:37:06.:37:10.

That's not to say that our support was unqualified.

:37:11.:37:12.

We said throughout the campaign that she should have talked

:37:13.:37:14.

I think it was a failure not to do so, they have a strong

:37:15.:37:19.

record on the economy, a good story to tell, they didn't.

:37:20.:37:22.

Interestingly, the failure to do that did help Corbyn.

:37:23.:37:27.

I think you can look at things like Facebook and say,

:37:28.:37:30.

when you got a message such as Corbyn's, where you are making

:37:31.:37:33.

specific offers, to specific interest groups of more money,

:37:34.:37:35.

it's possible that people who use Facebook only find the bit

:37:36.:37:38.

that relates to them, the offer of more money

:37:39.:37:40.

for their particular interest groups, and they don't see

:37:41.:37:42.

the overarching narrative that if we were to try

:37:43.:37:44.

and deliver all that money, then we would soon become Venezuela.

:37:45.:37:51.

# We've had enough of broken promises...

:37:52.:38:00.

August titles like the Telegraph and Mail have to reckon

:38:01.:38:02.

In an industrial park off the Old Kent Road in London,

:38:03.:38:07.

not far from Peckham, Labour Party member Aaron Bastani

:38:08.:38:10.

has, together with fellow comrades, launched Novara Media,

:38:11.:38:12.

a left-wing antidote to what he sees as the prevailing

:38:13.:38:14.

So, Labour have just increased their share of the vote by 9%.

:38:15.:38:23.

This marks a watershed moment for the modern Labour Party.

:38:24.:38:26.

I call myself a libertarian communist.

:38:27.:38:29.

I've also called myself a fully automated luxury communist.

:38:30.:38:32.

People that own newspapers and, sadly, many people that write

:38:33.:38:35.

for those same newspapers simply don't understand how

:38:36.:38:37.

difficult life is for so many in 21st-century Britain.

:38:38.:38:41.

The likes of Novara harness the viral power of Facebook

:38:42.:38:43.

in particular to advance an unfiltered worldview.

:38:44.:38:47.

But are they hacks in the traditional sense?

:38:48.:38:49.

Aren't you in danger of not really being a journalist,

:38:50.:38:52.

but being either an activist or a propagandist?

:38:53.:38:56.

I wear those commitments very publicly.

:38:57.:39:00.

I think, actually, far more journalists in Britain

:39:01.:39:02.

are politically committed than they dare admit.

:39:03.:39:04.

The point is, I'm honest and open about it.

:39:05.:39:06.

I think the challenge for many people in the media

:39:07.:39:14.

print and broadcast, is to be very clear and open

:39:15.:39:17.

?10,000 and you can essentially have a TV channel

:39:18.:39:22.

Whether you are Novara Media, whether you are The Financial Times

:39:23.:39:29.

What I'd say to anybody watching this is, go out and do it yourself.

:39:30.:39:35.

Let them come forth and bring forth their blogs.

:39:36.:39:38.

As Mirror editor Lloyd Embley points out, national papers do themselves

:39:39.:39:43.

I think it is a watershed in some respects.

:39:44.:39:47.

But I think it's wrong to suggest that Fleet Street can't and doesn't

:39:48.:39:51.

The Mirror has always supported Labour, but last year even

:39:52.:39:54.

they stuck the proverbial boot into Corbyn.

:39:55.:39:56.

Go! Now!

:39:57.:39:59.

In the context of the problem that he was having with the MPs

:40:00.:40:02.

and his Parliamentary Labour Party, at that point, we felt

:40:03.:40:04.

that it was so disruptive that it would not be beneficial

:40:05.:40:07.

But, at the time, that was the basis for what we said.

:40:08.:40:17.

The Mirror and Corbyn have now made up.

:40:18.:40:24.

The deputy editor of another title that warmed to Corbyn

:40:25.:40:26.

acknowledges that his canny use of new alternative media was key.

:40:27.:40:29.

You can put stuff out there, unmediated.

:40:30.:40:30.

Also, you don't have to give up access in exchange

:40:31.:40:33.

for the size of your audience, which was always the trade-off that

:40:34.:40:36.

a left-wing politician had to make before.

:40:37.:40:37.

They had to say, OK, The Sun are probably going to be

:40:38.:40:40.

quite hostile to me, but I need to reach their readers.

:40:41.:40:43.

Actually, they found a way now, I think Jeremy Corbyn's Facebook

:40:44.:40:45.

page has got 1.1 million likes on it, to reach a tabloid sized

:40:46.:40:49.

audience without having to go through those editorial hoops.

:40:50.:40:51.

Before you pronounce print's influence dead,

:40:52.:40:53.

it's worth bearing in mind the Tory manifesto acceded to many

:40:54.:40:55.

And let's not forget the outcome of another big vote recently.

:40:56.:40:59.

Your country needs you! Vote leave today!

:41:00.:41:03.

In terms of the influence of the press, I think

:41:04.:41:05.

that is probably the most significant example in recent times

:41:06.:41:08.

of where the printed press did have an influence.

:41:09.:41:11.

If there is a broad dividing line in British media, it is that

:41:12.:41:16.

print is for the old and online is for the young.

:41:17.:41:19.

Ever since I been a journalist, newspapers have always wanted

:41:20.:41:27.

to appeal to the young, and they've always failed.

:41:28.:41:30.

When they do try to strain to hard towards younger readers,

:41:31.:41:32.

they find that younger readers don't buy them, because many young

:41:33.:41:35.

people aren't interested in buying printed newspapers.

:41:36.:41:37.

They also disenchant their existing readers.

:41:38.:41:38.

If we all say the world is completely atomised,

:41:39.:41:40.

I think that's what newspapers, great newspapers have always done.

:41:41.:41:46.

They've had a strong sense of community.

:41:47.:41:50.

We all have to recognise that we don't have a monopoly now.

:41:51.:41:53.

We've got new forces, disruptive forces, are have

:41:54.:41:55.

fundamentally changing the media landscape.

:41:56.:42:05.

Whether the next generation cares about what the papers

:42:06.:42:07.

But they are breaking and remaking news as we know it.

:42:08.:42:12.

So, will the last person to leave Fleet Street please

:42:13.:42:15.

That is it for tonight. As Glastonbury approaches, we leave you

:42:16.:42:28.

with this charming bit of nepotism from Dave Grohl, who promoted his

:42:29.:42:35.

daughter, Harper, in front of 20,000 people.

:42:36.:42:40.

# Playing in the street, going to be a big man Sunday

:42:41.:42:51.

# You've got mud on your face # You big disgrace

:42:52.:42:55.

# Kicking your can all over the place

:42:56.:42:55.

# We will, we Will rock you! Very good evening to you. Many parts

:42:56.:43:19.

of the country had a beautiful day today, particularly in the

:43:20.:43:20.

The Queen's Speech is on Wednesday - but there is no majority in Parliament. Lord Heseltine speaks to Newsnight, plus news of Barclays fraud charges and the latest on Grenfell. And has the printed press media lost its electoral force?


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