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Now they're being pushed out of Raqqa, their de | :00:00. | :00:12. | |
These fighters are coming up against IS snipers in these streets. | :00:13. | :00:24. | |
Other about they've got drones, they've got suicide bombers. | :00:25. | :00:26. | |
This is going to be a very, very hard fight. | :00:27. | :00:28. | |
Advancing forces are discovering the horrors of life | :00:29. | :00:30. | |
Women are on the front line of the war against Isis, | :00:31. | :00:44. | |
So far so good for those that want to see the back of Isis. | :00:45. | :01:09. | |
We'll ask if the Isis ideology will live on, | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
and what happens in the region when the common enemy | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
Also tonight, is this a time for rivals to pull together | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
There are many issues on which I would hope | :01:21. | :01:28. | |
that we will be able to achieve consensus across this house. | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
If the Prime Minister would like it I am very happy | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
to furnish her with a copy of our election manifesto. | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
And we are often told what machines can do these days. | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
What do we humans bring to the party? | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
Two renowned authors tell us how to prepare your children | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
Isis has been defeated in Mosul - the Iraqi prime minister Haider | :01:48. | :02:03. | |
al-Abadi declared victory today on a visit to the city. | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
The so-called Islamic State - with its dreams of a caliphate that | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
straddles national borders - is even more "so-called" now, | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
it's been left with very little in that country - | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
certainly no hub or centre to hold things together. | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
Satisfying as that win is for those who detest Isis, | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
defeating it once and for all is a three-step process | :02:30. | :02:31. | |
The second is to achieve the same in Syria, which means | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
As you'll see in a minute, that struggle is well underway now. | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
The third step is likely to be the hardest - | :02:41. | :02:42. | |
that is about bringing order to the region to remove | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
the bitterness out of which Isis thrives. | :02:46. | :02:46. | |
Cleaning up a region full of messy and overlapping | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
rivalries and tensions - Kurds and Turks, Sunni | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
and Shia plus a lot of foreign powers - | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
But let's go back to that second step, the battle for Raqqa in Syria. | :02:55. | :03:01. | |
Gabriel Gatehouse, along with cameraman Fred Scot | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
and producer Peter Emmerson, have been with those forces, | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
and this his film, on how the battle is being conducted. | :03:11. | :03:23. | |
In Raqqa, Islamic State is making its final stand. | :03:24. | :03:37. | |
Fighting their way into the heart of the caliphate, a fragile | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
coalition of powers, great and small, of Arabs | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
This is more than the final showdown with IS in its capital. | :03:46. | :04:21. | |
I can believe in why I might die, I can die for something | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
Raqqa might be the end of one fight but the beginning of another, | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
a battle for territory, both physical and ideological. | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
They will get there in the end and when they do, the fall of Raqqa | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
will probably mean the end of the caliphate but it won't mean | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
the end of Isis' ideology and it also won't mean the end of this war. | :04:41. | :04:49. | |
This story begins not in Iraq but in Kobani. | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
This story begins not in Raqqa but in Kobani. | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
What remains of this largely Kurdish city stands as a monument | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
to a brutal turning point in the war against Islamic State. | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
It was here that IS reached its high water mark, its territory extending | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
It was here that it met its first significant defeat. | :05:12. | :05:27. | |
Commander Song-huin played her part in that. | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
The cemetery in Kobani testifies to just how high a price Kurdish | :05:30. | :05:40. | |
fighters have already paid in the war against IS. | :05:41. | :06:13. | |
For the Kurds, this is part of a wider battle. | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
For a long held dream of self-determination. | :06:17. | :06:23. | |
But for the commander, the youngest of 11 children | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
in a conservative society, it's also personal. | :06:27. | :07:14. | |
Today, she is in command of around 1,000 fighters | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
Periods of intense fighting are punctuated | :07:19. | :07:27. | |
Together, these men and women make up the Syrian | :07:28. | :07:37. | |
An alliance that includes Arabs but is led by the Kurds. | :07:38. | :07:46. | |
Their success against IS has come thanks in no small part to backing | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
The Americans have quietly built up a presence on the ground, providing | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
With their help, the SDF have chased Islamic State out | :07:56. | :08:04. | |
of Kurdish areas and beyond, reaching across the Euphrates | :08:05. | :08:06. | |
and into mainly Arab territory to the West. | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
The SDF took this city last August after two and a half | :08:10. | :08:17. | |
Here, the Islamic State would sit in judgment over people they deemed | :08:18. | :08:28. | |
Punishments would be meted out in the car park opposite. | :08:29. | :08:37. | |
A local shopkeeper witnessed many of their gruesome executions. | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
Even though IS is gone from here now, he asked | :08:44. | :08:45. | |
us not to reveal his identity for fear of reprisal. | :08:46. | :09:22. | |
Down in the basement, their brutal legacy lingers like a ghost. | :09:23. | :09:34. | |
In this dungeon, IS tortured its prisoners. | :09:35. | :09:51. | |
A policeman showed us the cell where his uncle was kept. | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
When they let him out, after four days, they had | :09:59. | :10:12. | |
In a vast graveyard in the centre of Manbij, its fighters have smashed | :10:13. | :10:28. | |
And even though Islamic State has been chased out of town that doesn't | :10:29. | :10:39. | |
From Manbij we get a sense of what lies ahead. | :10:40. | :11:15. | |
It has been a long road to the capital of the caliphate. | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
The final stretch may be the hardest yet. | :11:21. | :11:28. | |
The commander and her unit are on the western front. | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
It's a tight squeeze inside a home-made armoured truck | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
with a couple of her fighters driving towards the centre of Raqqa. | :11:35. | :11:45. | |
Islamic State are supposed to be surrounded inside the old city. | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
And they frequently pop up where you don't expect them. | :11:50. | :12:06. | |
These fighters are coming up against IS snipers in all of these | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
Other than that, they've got drones, they've got suicide car bombs. | :12:10. | :12:15. | |
This is going to be a very, very hard fight into the centre of Raqqa. | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
Back at base, the commander and her fellow commanders | :12:21. | :12:22. | |
As the fight enters the narrow streets of the city | :12:23. | :12:30. | |
they are constantly having to adjust tactics. | :12:31. | :12:54. | |
But what does a Kurdish-led coalition do when it | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
captures the capital of Sunni Arab fundamentalism? | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
Well, there is a plan for Raqqa after the fall of Islamic State | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
Here, a multi-ethnic military and civil council has brought life | :13:10. | :13:20. | |
and stability back to this mainly Arab city under the auspices | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
The anti-IS coalition sees Manbij as a template for Raqqa, post-IS. | :13:24. | :13:56. | |
But it is at best a temporary arrangement. | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
Syria has been at war for more than six years now. | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
Longer than the whole of World War II. | :14:07. | :14:13. | |
The fight against the Islamic State is but one facet of an ongoing | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
conflict in which the world's big powers, the US, Russia and others, | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
have not only interests but troops on the ground. | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
From a hilltop overlooking the Manbij countryside, | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
a local Kurdish commander showed me the point at which all of these | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
OK, well, it's a pretty complicated picture but basically | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
From the West, all the way up to the north, up | :14:46. | :14:55. | |
over there is controlled by the Americans. | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
From that same western point all the way to the South | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
In the middle of that is the pocket of the Manbij Military Council | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
which is an Arab Kurdish coalition but is basically | :15:10. | :15:11. | |
But in between all of that is a Russian base just over | :15:12. | :15:19. | |
there, an American base just four kilometres along from that, | :15:20. | :15:21. | |
and surrounding all of it are FSA forces, Free Syrian Army, | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
that are basically sponsored by the Turks. | :15:26. | :15:34. | |
For now, the battle against Islamic State provides | :15:35. | :15:36. | |
a kind of common purpose but once IS is gone, the potential | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
for conflict between these big powers is very real. | :15:40. | :16:03. | |
The Kurds are in a difficult position. | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
Their fighters belonged to a branch of the PKK, | :16:10. | :16:12. | |
which is considered a terrorist organisation by both Turkey | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
For now, the Syrian Kurds have the backing of the Americans | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
but Turkey, a Nato ally, carries out sporadic | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
And that's because their fight against the Islamic State is really | :16:29. | :16:37. | |
They call it a revolution and it's attracting its share | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
One of the fighters in the commander's units is Kimi Taylor. | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
Originally from Blackburn, she's a former maths student who has | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
left behind a life of activism at home to come to Syria | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
There's just a million ways to die here, it's not just on the front, | :16:53. | :16:59. | |
It's like a huge space of war that is like even though it | :17:00. | :17:05. | |
seems peaceful here, anything can happen. | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
What are the biggest worries, the biggest threats? | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
On the moving front, where we're moving to take more space, | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
There are mines everywhere and there's snipers everywhere. | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
No, there is something bigger than me. | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
It's for people here, for women here and for women | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
all in the Middle East and maybe potentially the world. | :17:38. | :17:39. | |
Those who have given their lives to this cause | :17:40. | :17:41. | |
To a social revolution with its roots in Marxist-Leninist ideology. | :17:42. | :17:48. | |
It's a movement that tolerates little dissent. | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
Opposition activists have been jailed and thousands of young people | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
have fled to escape conscription, such is the way of revolutions. | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
For the commander, a true believer, the fight against IS is but one | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
battle in a longer war to convert her own | :18:09. | :18:17. | |
Meanwhile, on the Raqqa front line there is still much | :18:18. | :18:52. | |
Inching their way into the city, house by house. | :18:53. | :19:01. | |
The fighters are so close they can hear IS in the building | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
This is, of course, a battle for territory. | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
They're fighting to take the capital of the caliphate. | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
Everyone's just swinging into action. | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
They think they've got some Isis snipers in the buildings around. | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
They are moving here, they moving here. | :19:28. | :19:37. | |
They now face Islamic State at perhaps its most dangerous. | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
Wounded, cornered and with nothing left to lose. | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
The question is, can their revolution survive | :19:45. | :19:58. | |
the collapse of the caliphate in the face of Syria's | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
Gabriel Gatehouse working with Fred Scott and Peter Emmerson. | :20:01. | :20:17. | |
It's not difficult for victory in a war to lead to chaos, | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
or another war in that region if the aftermath is not | :20:21. | :20:22. | |
So let's accept that the physical battle against Isis is going well, | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
and ask what might go wrong thereafter. | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
Sheelagh Stewart is a conflict expert at the British Council - | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
she was formerly at the UN and also served as the Head of the UK | :20:33. | :20:35. | |
Government Stabilisation Unit, which tackles instability overseas. | :20:36. | :20:37. | |
Mina Al-Oraibi is a British Iraqi journalist and editor | :20:38. | :20:39. | |
in chief at The National, based in Abu Dhabi. | :20:40. | :20:41. | |
And joining us from Brussels is Hoshyar Zebari, former | :20:42. | :20:43. | |
Thank you all very much for coming in. We will divide this conversation | :20:44. | :20:58. | |
into three sections. First, Mina, I want to start with you. Is this | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
really the end of Isis. How difficult is it to eradicate that | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
movement and its ideology by simply taking away its territory. It is | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
difficult, Isis was not something just born in 2014 when they took the | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
physical territory in Iraq. Previously to that we had militants | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
roaming the street. Isis is a consequence of factors that continue | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
to be present in both Iraq and Isis. So it is an ideology but it is also | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
born of a security vacuum. Areas that did not have proper policing or | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
proper defence for citizens. You have organised crime that had | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
nothing to do with ideology and was much more opportunistic. And it's | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
very hard to see how the ground will be held because as your report said | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
there are so many different competing groups who all bear arms, | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
and you have fighting forces that will put together to fight Isis and | :21:56. | :22:01. | |
now Isis are gone they are still armed to the teeth. And there are | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
many young people, and, without prospects of jobs or anywhere to go | :22:07. | :22:13. | |
except fight another war. Are you worried that Isis will pop up | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
elsewhere, Willie ideology and in it? I think it's quite rightly, that | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
the military defeat and loss of territory cuts off two forms of | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
support for Isis, the first is their legitimacy because they claim to run | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
a caliphate and the second is that they have used the holding of | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
territory to raise money. So it is a definite step forward that the | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
caliphate has been defeated. However conflict breeds conflict. It is very | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
clear that from Isis's tactics they already retrenching and talking | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
about to domestic terror, sponsoring lone wolf activities. And that is | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
the kind of thing that is very difficult to stop and will bring | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
further conflict. Hoshyar Zebari, I assume that you will agree that this | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
is not necessarily the end of Isis. Tel us would you to do to make sure | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
that the fighters are not a threat and the ideology would have less | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
appeal. Definitely the military successes in Mosul and that | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
declaration of victory, the date of Mosul liberation, even without a | :23:21. | :23:25. | |
victory lap it is a significant achievement for the Iraqi security | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
forces, for the Peshmerga forces and the volunteers. And for the people | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
of Mosul who have been really traumatised and brutally treated by | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
Isis over the last few years. But defeating Isis physically or | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
militarily or destroying the caliphate of hatred is very | :23:47. | :23:58. | |
important first successes of recruitment from foreign countries, | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
that is a significant achievement. But we need, in the post-ISIS | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
period, to do reconstruction as quickly as possible. The level of | :24:07. | :24:15. | |
destruction in Mosul is devastating. And also to have real political | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
reconciliations and good governors of Mosul afterwards. Here we believe | :24:22. | :24:27. | |
that the government on the military sides have been successful but on | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
the service sides, on the political side, this didn't matter, these | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
military successes. But Isis will not finish after their defeat in | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
Mosul, or dislodging them... You all agree on that. Mina, on that last | :24:45. | :24:52. | |
topic of Isis, what is to keep Isis from being a powerful force in | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
future, is it about the Iraqi government being more inclusive and | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
more inclusive arrangements on a civic level? It's also about | :25:02. | :25:11. | |
providing security for citizens and services, and giving people a sense | :25:12. | :25:13. | |
that the government takes care of everyone regardless of their | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
background. It's important to remember that despite these armed | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
groups they will be able to continue unless there is proper justice and | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
in terms of holding those accountable who were not only part | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
of Isis but encouraged them to take hold of Mosul. Three years ago there | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
was a different commander in chief, the current one has done a stellar | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
job in putting the army together but there was a different one, which | :25:40. | :25:45. | |
allowed the full of Mosul and did not give the order of the army to | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
protect the city. Let's move onto the second section, the region. | :25:50. | :25:57. | |
Sheelagh, there are so many players there, they don't get on, they've | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
got this one common enemy, is there a danger of another war there? I | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
think that is quite likely. I think in terms of securing the region, the | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
first steps of trying to announce the boil of this immediate conflict, | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
that's about establishing law and order in those areas first, getting | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
humanitarian aid in, and then starting to lay a path towards | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
normality for people so they can see that life will become normal again. | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
Who is we? It's different in both countries. Haider al-Abadi must take | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
the lead in Iraq. I think there's a chink of light all the | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
reconstruction in Falluja has been pretty slow but Haider al-Abadi has | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
made concessionary noises and is starting to talk about the | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
possibility of including Sunni people. Isis wasn't the start of the | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
problem, the exclusion of Sunni people across the region laid the | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
fertile soil in which the Isis narrative was sown. Syria, or | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
together a different matter of complexity. -- altogether. Hoshyar, | :27:04. | :27:12. | |
what should the American role be. The Americans are there with 500 or | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
soap troops in Syria, do you see the Americans living and getting out of | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
the way -- 500 or so. They stay because everybody is there? I think | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
America are going to stay until the defeat of Isis or the liberation of | :27:30. | :27:40. | |
Raqqa is complete. Raqqa is the administrative capital of Isis or | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
Daesh. Therefore I believe that they are committed. And thanks to the | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
critical support and their attacks and the ground support through | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
advisers, really the SDF forces have managed to achieve those successes. | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
Without American support these victories would not have been | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
possible at all. Without the International coalition and | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
generally... In a word you would welcome the Americans staying even | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
beyond the point at which Raqqa has been taken? I think there really is | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
important, reassuring, I think it will inspire confidence in the local | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
fighters and the local population so their continued engagement is very | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
important. Mina, give us your take on the general picture of | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
instability or stability. Are you optimistic that there can be some | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
stability in Iraq and Syria, two different theatres? They are two | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
ready different scenarios because Iraq has an internationally | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
recognised government, we have a functioning Kurdish regional | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
government that works together when they disagree, Syria is much more | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
complex. It's hard to be optimistic with so much that has been lost. | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
It's difficult to see a ray of hope in that sense but I think there is a | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
moment to see, today we have seen a very significant victory in terms of | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
liberating Mosul from Isis but it has come at a very high cost for | :29:13. | :29:18. | |
people. Pictures of the destruction are shocking. My third topic and I | :29:19. | :29:25. | |
will get you to lead off on this one, Hoshyar, it is the Kurds. | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
Another thing that could go wrong, a full-scale argument between the | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
Turks, the Kurds, there are divisions within the Iraqi Kurds and | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
the Syrian Kurds. What is the prospect of the Kurds getting a | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
potentially independent state? Here, we must distinguish between | :29:43. | :29:56. | |
Syrian Kurds, Iraqi Kurds and other Kurds. Iraqi Kurds have decided to | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
hold a referendum on self-determination on the 25th of | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
September. This decision is irreversible and a majority of the | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
Kurdish leaders in fact have agreed to do that. But this would be for | :30:12. | :30:19. | |
Iraqi Kurds, because of really great frustration with the Iraqi | :30:20. | :30:26. | |
government... Sorry to interrupt, but is it going to be chaos? If the | :30:27. | :30:33. | |
Iraqi Kurds voted for independence, is it going to be chaos or not? No, | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
it wouldn't be chaos actually, this referendum will do its best to | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
prevent a further conflict and was and bloodshed, in my view. Do you | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
agree that the Kurdish situation can be stable or is it chaotic? It's | :30:52. | :31:00. | |
going to be very difficult, it could be completely chaotic. They are | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
obviously in with a clear agenda and they have been passionately | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
committed to independence. I think the key thing is, if the West has | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
any credit, to pull together some kind of move towards a common | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
purpose but it's hard to see where you can go from here. We've | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
discussed the Kurds, the General security in the region and the | :31:22. | :31:28. | |
prospects for. Thank you. -- prospects for peace. | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
Theresa May has a new idea for managing a minority government - | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
asking the opposition to give her a hand. | :31:35. | :31:36. | |
Her suggestion will be set out in a speech tomorrow, | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
but she was in the Commons today and couldn't avoid the subject. | :31:40. | :31:42. | |
Labour wasn't exactly positive about the idea. | :31:43. | :31:44. | |
The government is apparently now asking other parties | :31:45. | :31:46. | |
And so, if the Prime Minister would like it, I'm very happy | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
to furnish her with a copy of our election manifesto. | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
Or, better still, an early election in order that the people | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
Mr Speaker, there are many issues on which I would hope | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
that we would be able to achieve consensus across this House. | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
Our political editor Nick Watt is here. | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
Quite a busy day. You saw Jeremy Corbyn mocking Theresa May I think | :32:13. | :32:24. | |
in that clip. What is the importance of this launch tomorrow? We will see | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
the new look bipartisan Theresa May tomorrow when she attends the launch | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
of the report into the so-called gig economy by the fauna Tony Blair | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
adviser, Matthew Taylor -- former adviser. She wants to send two | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
messages, firstly that her government can do more than | :32:44. | :32:45. | |
delivering Brexit and she acknowledges that her minority | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
government needs the support of other parties if it is to deliver | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
radical change in three areas, counterterrorism, industrial | :32:57. | :32:58. | |
strategy and workers' rights. They say that the Taylor report which is | :32:59. | :33:05. | |
about short-term contracts and zero-hour contracts is the perfect | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
opportunity to highlight this approach. One senior government | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
figure did say, how can Labour disagree with a report written by | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
one of their former advertisers? Of course Matthew Taylor was an adviser | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
to Tony Blair, which perhaps explains why Jeremy Corbyn is rather | :33:22. | :33:27. | |
dismissive. The other thing that happened when Theresa May was on her | :33:28. | :33:32. | |
feet, Cape emerging of another Tory MP using some rather inappropriate | :33:33. | :33:37. | |
language in a meeting. -- tape emerging. She was in the Commons | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
when it emerged that Anne Marie Morris had used a racially offensive | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
word to describe the dangers of the UK leaving the EU. Anne Marie Morris | :33:48. | :33:58. | |
apologised for any offence that may have been caused by what she called | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
unintentional remarks but when Theresa May was cold about this she | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
felt it was so important, she conveyed a meeting immediately with | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
her Chief Whip Gavin Williamson and they took action on two France. The | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
party whip was suspended from the backbench MP and Theresa May issued | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
a statement saying the words were completely unacceptable and have no | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
place in our politics and society -- took action on two fronts. Brexit, | :34:25. | :34:35. | |
can't get away from it because there is another issue that has been | :34:36. | :34:42. | |
lurking, the issue about nuclear regulation, Euratom, what Britain | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
will do? There is cooperation in one area, Ed Vaizey, the former Tory | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
arts minister has launched a campaign with Rachel Reeves, the | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
former Labour Shadow Cabinet Minister, to keep the UK in Euratom, | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
the treaty governing the movement of nuclear material around Europe. The | :35:01. | :35:06. | |
Evening Standard, edited by that well-known anti-Brexit campaigner, | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
George Osborne, highlighted concerns today amongst radiologists that | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
withdrawal from the treaty could threaten the supply of radioactive | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
isotopes. Euratom is not technically and Mac EU treaty but it is overseen | :35:20. | :35:26. | |
by the European Court of Justice and the history is that government | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
lawyers advised ministers earlier in the year that they couldn't | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
guarantee a clean Article 50 triggering unless the UK signalled | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
that it was going to pull-out Euratom because of it being overseen | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
by the ECJ. Theresa May on three occasions in the Commons this | :35:44. | :35:45. | |
afternoon said that the UK will be leaving Euratom but government | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
sources say that the Prime Minister would like to replicate it exactly | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
in the nuclear safeguards built. One ministerial source said to me that | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
the UK will not be leaving Euratom, we don't have the numbers in | :36:02. | :36:04. | |
parliament to leave it -- in the nuclear safeguards Bill. Thank you | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
for joining us. How is technology | :36:09. | :36:10. | |
changing the world? We know the Ubers and Airbnbs come | :36:11. | :36:12. | |
from nowhere to world dominance. We know the gig economy has | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
expanded as part of that. But a new book tries to encapsulate | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
many of the economic and business effects of disruptive technology | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
in three words. The book is more than three words, | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
it's actually over 100,000, but its message boils down to three | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
- machines, platforms... The two authors think understanding | :36:30. | :36:31. | |
these three is the key to understanding the way | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
everything is being uprooted. They are both massively rated | :36:37. | :36:38. | |
experts on this area Thank you for joining us. The three | :36:39. | :36:53. | |
words, machines, platforms, crowds, give me an example, either of you, | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
of how they interact that causes disruption of some kind. A great | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
example of all three of them is a recent competition run in the United | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
States by the people looking at baggage coming through airports and | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
they created a contest among millions of data scientists to come | :37:15. | :37:19. | |
up with a better way to use machines to scan through the x-rays and | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
identify potentially dangerous materials. This was a platform that | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
reached out to a lot of people. The technology is the machine, the | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
platform and in the crowd the people who are giving about what to do. | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
That's right. Another example, a crowd sourced quantitative hedge | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
funds that will start later this year, a start-up in Boston, using | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
machines to make investment decisions, building a platform to | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
find the most talented quantitative investors out there, whether or not | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
they are working for an investment house and the crowd are the hundreds | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
of people who are potentially good at doing this kind of investing. | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
Tell me what humans are going to be good for, because we know that | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
machines will become more important, that is part of the book. What are | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
the specialist skills that we retain that the machines are not going to | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
have? Most skills, machines are good at narrow skills but we want to be | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
clear, the problem we are facing is not a world without work, it is a | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
world of rapidly changing work. There is no better time in history | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
to be a talented art artist or scientist and there are huge | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
opportunities in the caring professions, motivating. Social | :38:39. | :38:44. | |
care, old age care. Absolutely. Machines will never be as good at | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
that. Never say never, one thing we learned in writing the book was | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
never to say never but in the next few Mac decades, most of us prefer | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
interacting with other humans. Part of the concerns that people have are | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
not that the jobs will run out, but they will either be slave jobs, the | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
underclass or you will be the Afterburn, the creative, and you | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
will be fine and we all going to be that -- you will be the | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
entrepreneur. You talk about soccer and being the football coach, it is | :39:22. | :39:29. | |
a solid job, respected in the Kim Ye-Ji, not going to be replaced by a | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
robot any time soon -- respected in the community. The coach taps into | :39:35. | :39:40. | |
the social drives and that isn't going anywhere soon. Emotional | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
intelligence is a important thing. That's great, we need that more than | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
ever. The book is aimed at the business community and the | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
companies, what do you think countries should do? I'm thinking of | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
a middle to large size country may be thinking of changing its | :39:59. | :40:03. | |
direction. OK! There is quite a big debate over industrial policy and it | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
is a blank piece of paper looking for ideas. Often industrial policy | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
means doubling down on one particular thing we think is going | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
to be big in the future. The track record of that policy is really | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
dismal. What I think a country should do is set up the right | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
environment for innovation and entrepreneurship, let the | :40:28. | :40:29. | |
experiments happen, let failure happen even if it is to a company | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
that is important now and let that creative destruction happen. Let it | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
happen. That's a big part of it, also investing in education, not | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
just spending more, but encouraging emotional intelligence, encouraging | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
creativity. When we visit schools today, many of them seem designed to | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
crush that so we could do a lot to help it flourish. That's what we | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
need in the second machine age in this era going forward. In the | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
industrial era we needed workers who could follow instructions and listen | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
to authority and the education system does a good job of turning | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
out those workers. We don't need them any more. Thank you for joining | :41:13. | :41:13. | |
us. If you're one of the increasing | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
number who's started watching BBC Two on our high definition | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
channel, you've probably become fairly expert by now in dating every | :41:21. | :41:23. | |
piece of footage you see to the correct decade just | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
by looking at the image quality So you'll probably appreciate | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
the work of artist Marina Amaral, whose speciality is bringing | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
old images to life by carefully researching what the original scene | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
would have looked like, and then meticulously colouring | :41:39. | :41:40. | |
and enhancing the image If you're not watching in HD - | :41:41. | :41:42. | |
well the weather forecast # I've hungered | :41:43. | :41:50. | |
for your touch Gardeners amongst you in England and | :41:51. | :43:01. | |
Wales will be happy that there is some | :43:02. | :43:02. |