08/08/2017 Newsnight


08/08/2017

Evan Davis with in-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, including the north/south death divide and the latest on Trump and North Korea.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 08/08/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

The death divide - if you are a northerner

:00:07.:00:08.

in England in your mid 30s, you're 50% more likely to die

:00:09.:00:11.

We know the country has extreme regional imbalances,

:00:12.:00:16.

but what accounts for excess mortality among prime

:00:17.:00:18.

More and more people coming into the hospital

:00:19.:00:22.

with alcohol-related liver injury and illness and actually, you know,

:00:23.:00:26.

They have probably got nothing to live for and alcohol is an easy

:00:27.:00:32.

We'll ask if this is a health issue or a national failure

:00:33.:00:38.

to deal with inequality between north and south.

:00:39.:00:43.

President Trump ramps up the rhetoric on North Korea.

:00:44.:00:49.

They will be met with fire and few are, like the world has never seen.

:00:50.:00:58.

We're in Amiens, in Northern France, birthplace of President Macron,

:00:59.:01:02.

to hear how he finds out whether faith in his

:01:03.:01:04.

After an extroadinary campaign, which entirely new political

:01:05.:01:12.

scheme was deployed, President Macron must now deliver.

:01:13.:01:15.

And there are already voices in France who doubt

:01:16.:01:18.

And, a property dispute dating back to the partition

:01:19.:01:23.

of India and Pakistan, 70 years ago.

:01:24.:01:30.

The Indian government is laying claim to my property saying

:01:31.:01:34.

We know there's a north-south divide in England.

:01:35.:01:47.

That's literally been noted since the 11th century.

:01:48.:01:49.

We also know your chance of dying prematurely is significantly higher

:01:50.:01:51.

But a paper published today raises some alarming

:01:52.:01:56.

questions about mortality, and its connection to economic

:01:57.:01:59.

It looks at data on five decades of death,

:02:00.:02:05.

about 25 million people in the midlands and north,

:02:06.:02:10.

about 25 million people in the Midlands and north,

:02:11.:02:12.

versus about 25 million people in London, the south and east.

:02:13.:02:15.

The good news is that premature deaths have plummeted north

:02:16.:02:17.

But the bad news is that over the years there's a persistently

:02:18.:02:23.

higher premature death rate in the north, despite

:02:24.:02:25.

And for those between mid-20s and mid-40s, prime age adults,

:02:26.:02:32.

Since the mid-90s, the north south gap has jumped.

:02:33.:02:39.

Lots of data to digest, Helen Thomas has been on Stoke

:02:40.:02:42.

Industrial decline, ailing city centres, a dwindling population.

:02:43.:03:05.

And, in contrast, a region, or more specifically a capital, ever

:03:06.:03:10.

greedier in taking the nation's jobs and wealth. It wouldn't be a piece

:03:11.:03:16.

of TV about the North-South divide without images of the North which

:03:17.:03:21.

suggest industrial decay. And chopping England into two contrast

:03:22.:03:26.

enhanced is a little bit cliched, and it is certainly crude. But this

:03:27.:03:31.

report highlights a particular issue. For decades, you have been

:03:32.:03:36.

more likely to die young if you live in the north. What is worrying is

:03:37.:03:41.

over the past 15 years or so, the grim outlook has got worse,

:03:42.:03:45.

specifically if you are a young adult. There is some good news. The

:03:46.:03:53.

University of Manchester looked at the mortality rate, or deaths per

:03:54.:03:58.

10,000 people under 75. It has fallen. But this graph shows the

:03:59.:04:03.

stubborn gap between the north and south of England. If you look at

:04:04.:04:08.

specific age groups, you see a surprising trend. Among 25 to

:04:09.:04:14.

34-year-olds, the gap had virtually closed 20 years ago. Since then it

:04:15.:04:19.

has grown considerably. The 35 to 44 age group is similar, but the gap is

:04:20.:04:26.

now even bigger. The question, is why? We didn't want to draw too much

:04:27.:04:32.

attention to the dealing with the intermediate factors, rather than

:04:33.:04:35.

the root causes, which are social and economic. But commonly, any

:04:36.:04:40.

group rise of death rate of people in that age are the diseases of

:04:41.:04:46.

despair. Alcohol-related, drug-related, suicide, violent

:04:47.:04:52.

deaths. His description is to wait government investment towards the

:04:53.:04:56.

north, a positive discrimination to build the economy. Other research

:04:57.:05:01.

has suggested that extra financial support isn't as important as

:05:02.:05:06.

encouraging healthier lifestyles. To invest in risks pastors alone is to

:05:07.:05:12.

ignore the underlying causes of early death. Which are accessed to

:05:13.:05:18.

resources in general, have good living conditions, more control of

:05:19.:05:23.

your own life, so you can make those healthy choices. So, is it time to

:05:24.:05:31.

relaunch the northern powerhouse? Efforts to rebalance the economy

:05:32.:05:34.

towards the North have largely failed, and measures specifically

:05:35.:05:39.

aimed at health have fared us badly. Targets set in 1997, to narrow

:05:40.:05:46.

health inequality between deprived and affluent areas were not met by

:05:47.:05:52.

2010. A report on Wye, called progress exceptionally slow.

:05:53.:05:57.

Staffordshire University's Centre for health and development is an

:05:58.:06:00.

unusual partnership with two local councils. The aim a new approach of

:06:01.:06:08.

tackling health inequality. Top-down investment is vital and we need more

:06:09.:06:13.

of it. However, we also need the bottom-up approach and we need to

:06:14.:06:17.

give people a voice in our community is actually to help direct that

:06:18.:06:21.

investment so it goes to the right places. We need to be looking and

:06:22.:06:26.

asking questions about quality of work and work life. This is working

:06:27.:06:31.

age cohort. What it is like to be unemployed in this day and age,

:06:32.:06:38.

impact about welfare reform, housing policies, education. Alcohol-related

:06:39.:06:42.

death rates have risen since the mid-19 90s. Consultant at Stoke

:06:43.:06:47.

University Hospital of Wales seen that first-hand. We are seeing more

:06:48.:06:53.

people and the age of people is younger because people are drinking

:06:54.:06:57.

at a younger age. We are seeing more women. There is more desperation.

:06:58.:07:01.

People don't drink because they want to, they drink because it is a way

:07:02.:07:07.

out. This is a big picture study about abroad, long-standing problem

:07:08.:07:11.

and it isn't clear what might change quickly. Very targeted programmes

:07:12.:07:16.

around obesity, mental health may help some people, but that risks

:07:17.:07:22.

missing the most entrenched divisions. Major structural changes

:07:23.:07:26.

to the economy may be the answer, but no one knows for sure and it

:07:27.:07:28.

certainly isn't a quick fix. Sir Michael Marmot is

:07:29.:07:31.

the Director of the UCL He is also responsible for drawing

:07:32.:07:34.

up the 2010 Marmot review which set out a six-point strategy

:07:35.:07:39.

for combating health inequality. Good evening. Let's go back to the

:07:40.:07:50.

beginning because we are used to premature death rates falling over

:07:51.:07:56.

the decades, why is that? It is good news, obviously. Because we are a

:07:57.:08:01.

richer society, everything is better, nutrition is better, housing

:08:02.:08:06.

is better, living conditions are better. Everything has improved.

:08:07.:08:11.

Fewer accidents at work and all of that. One of the things we haven't

:08:12.:08:15.

talked about, this report tallies with some stuff you have said but

:08:16.:08:18.

that has flattened off over the last few years so it is not falling any

:08:19.:08:26.

more? Yes, this is looking at premature mortality under age 70

:08:27.:08:31.

five. It has flattened. Flattened in the north and the South. It affects

:08:32.:08:39.

everybody, what is driving that? We speculated, we speculated that

:08:40.:08:43.

policies of austerity post 2010 decreased in adult social Claire

:08:44.:08:50.

daily-macro care spending, decrease in expenditure per person could play

:08:51.:08:53.

a role. We said it is urgent to investigate if it is related to it.

:08:54.:09:00.

Let's get to the north, south issue. There is a long-standing gap. What

:09:01.:09:07.

is the best succinct summary of what drives this gap because it is at all

:09:08.:09:13.

ages over the decades, there has been some percentage higher

:09:14.:09:16.

premature death in the North? We have some insight into it because

:09:17.:09:21.

when we look at mortality according to where you are in the social

:09:22.:09:27.

hierarchy. The lower you are in the social hierarchy defined by

:09:28.:09:33.

education, jobs or degradation, the higher the mortality. But the

:09:34.:09:37.

disadvantage of being low is bigger in the north and the South. Someone

:09:38.:09:42.

in the middle of the hierarchy has higher mortality than somebody at

:09:43.:09:46.

the top. But the access is bigger in the north and the South. If you are

:09:47.:09:52.

a poor person in the south, equally poor to someone else in the north,

:09:53.:09:56.

you will live longer in the south as that poor person in the North? You

:09:57.:10:04.

will, if you are professional. Why would that be because you said

:10:05.:10:10.

deprivation is driving this? Because what I identified in my review are

:10:11.:10:14.

worse in the north than they are in the south. We could look at child

:10:15.:10:19.

poverty. Let's take the first one on early childhood. Child poverty is

:10:20.:10:23.

worst in the north than in the south. We have talked about the

:10:24.:10:29.

importance of sure start children's centres. They funded by local

:10:30.:10:32.

government. The decrease in funding to local is bigger, it is bigger in

:10:33.:10:42.

the North than the South. Short start centres are closing in the

:10:43.:10:47.

North. This issue goes back to the 90s, it is not for ever, which is

:10:48.:10:53.

these younger, middle aged adults. 25 to 45 where you have seen a gap.

:10:54.:10:59.

The rates have improved, or not got much worse, but, much bigger gap,

:11:00.:11:05.

what is going on there? Let's go back ten years earlier. What we saw

:11:06.:11:10.

in the 1980s, the difference for 25 to 45-year-olds in the north and

:11:11.:11:17.

south was almost not there. But it was rising, mortality was rising

:11:18.:11:21.

both in the north and south, particularly young men. That was

:11:22.:11:27.

suicide, alcohol, file and deaths, the kind of disempowerment we saw

:11:28.:11:31.

just then in your clip. But then what happened, in the mid-90s,

:11:32.:11:36.

things improved in the south. Mortality started to decline and it

:11:37.:11:41.

didn't in the North. My speculation is, but disempowerment related to

:11:42.:11:45.

social economic conditions, persisted in the North when things

:11:46.:11:49.

were getting better in the south. That issue around drink, the death

:11:50.:11:54.

by despair, is part of what is going on in that group? Yes. If you will

:11:55.:11:57.

hang on there. Joining us from Leeds is Susie Brown

:11:58.:11:59.

the Chief Executive Officer at Zest, an organisation offering support

:12:00.:12:03.

to people living in disadvantaged areas of Yorkshire, and in Brighton

:12:04.:12:05.

is Christopher Snowdon the Head of Lifestyle Economics at

:12:06.:12:07.

the Institute of Economic Affairs. Suzy, just explain what you do and

:12:08.:12:22.

what you find and how successful what you do is? We have been working

:12:23.:12:28.

in disadvantaged areas of leads for 15 years and we try and level the

:12:29.:12:34.

playing field, essentially. So there is great inequality and

:12:35.:12:37.

disadvantaged areas. We offer a range of practical support and more

:12:38.:12:42.

general support as an example of the practical support we work with Jamie

:12:43.:12:46.

Oliver's Ministry of food. We have projects that teach cooking skills,

:12:47.:12:51.

healthy eating, budgeting and shopping to people, offering them

:12:52.:12:54.

the chance to learn to cook from scratch and lead a healthier

:12:55.:13:02.

lifestyle. Does it work? It does, it is strong evidence -based that shows

:13:03.:13:06.

it does make a huge difference to health outcomes. More generally, we

:13:07.:13:12.

offer people just general support and we are trying to lift them up

:13:13.:13:16.

and give them a leg up and inspire them to lead a more fulfilling life.

:13:17.:13:20.

Let me ask Christopher, I know you have a critique of certain bits of

:13:21.:13:29.

policy. It doesn't feel like policy has worked over the last 20 years in

:13:30.:13:33.

reducing these health disparities, what is going on? The health rates

:13:34.:13:41.

themselves have fallen over the last 15 years, certainly. I feel we are

:13:42.:13:45.

addressing a cold case, in a sense. It's not news in the normal sense of

:13:46.:13:49.

the word. We're looking at a specific portion of the population,

:13:50.:13:55.

men under the age of 45 and looking at wide death rates amongst those

:13:56.:14:00.

people rose in the mid to late 1990s. I don't know why that is, the

:14:01.:14:03.

author of the study says he's not sure why. We know what Michael

:14:04.:14:10.

Marmot has said, the main causes of death in that age, it is generally

:14:11.:14:14.

very low amongst people who are in their 20s and 30s anyway, but it is

:14:15.:14:19.

suicide, alcohol and drugs. You are right to describe these things as

:14:20.:14:29.

depths of despair. But income and economic growth are the great

:14:30.:14:32.

prophylactics for this. You see the North has less money and it has

:14:33.:14:38.

higher death rates and over time, society generally has got more

:14:39.:14:41.

prosperous and the death rate has fallen. But we have this anomaly in

:14:42.:14:47.

the north of England. In the 1990s specifically, I suspected drug

:14:48.:14:49.

overdose is significant and other things.

:14:50.:14:57.

But the gap is still there where there was no gap in that group to

:14:58.:15:05.

speak of in the 1980s. That is absolutely right. And there has been

:15:06.:15:09.

no recovery if you like. The rates have fallen very much since around

:15:10.:15:15.

2003 or so. But they have not caught up. And it seems whatever cause that

:15:16.:15:21.

spike in deaths in the 1990s is still having an effect and it would

:15:22.:15:26.

be useful to know what it is. But the studies have not pinpointed

:15:27.:15:29.

that. I do not think it is to do with austerity or the slowdown in

:15:30.:15:36.

economic growth. The mid to 1990s when deaths was biking, economy was

:15:37.:15:46.

in strong growth. Do you ever feel, one of the things that the paper

:15:47.:15:51.

suggests is that public health measures have done their bit in

:15:52.:15:56.

Victorian times with the sewers and vaccinations and the like and now

:15:57.:16:00.

many health measures are individual measures. The paper does not believe

:16:01.:16:04.

we should rely on individuals to look after themselves but do you

:16:05.:16:07.

ever feel you're just trying to basically tell people how to live

:16:08.:16:11.

their lives as individuals, it is not really so much a public health

:16:12.:16:16.

matter. I do not think we are telling people how to live, we work

:16:17.:16:20.

very much with people and offer a range of activities and groups aimed

:16:21.:16:25.

at lifting people and their self-esteem and confidence and

:16:26.:16:28.

giving them the tools to lift themselves perhaps out of a very bad

:16:29.:16:33.

place. If you walk around a deprived community you will see a lack of

:16:34.:16:37.

infrastructure perhaps, a lack of care, a lack of good things in that

:16:38.:16:43.

community. And if you're born into that or find yourself in that

:16:44.:16:47.

community, it is really hard to imagine ever getting out again.

:16:48.:16:53.

There is all this, on television we see these lives and young people in

:16:54.:16:57.

that community think that is not for me, I'm not somehow deserving of

:16:58.:17:03.

that. And people really do see themselves as never having the

:17:04.:17:07.

opportunity or the hope, they do not have the same aspiration to lift

:17:08.:17:11.

themselves up and we are trying to help from the bottom-up and help

:17:12.:17:16.

people out into better situation. Thank you all very much.

:17:17.:17:19.

Not long before we came on air, President Trump aimed some pretty

:17:20.:17:22.

threatening remarks towards North Korea.

:17:23.:17:23.

He was at an event where he was talking about drug

:17:24.:17:28.

addiction and was thrown a question about Korea.

:17:29.:17:35.

North Korea, best not make any more threats to the United States.

:17:36.:17:40.

They will be met with fire and fury, like the world has never seen.

:17:41.:17:49.

He has been very threatening beyond normal statement.

:17:50.:17:55.

And as I said, they will be met with fire, fury and frankly power.

:17:56.:17:59.

The likes of which this world has never seen before.

:18:00.:18:04.

Fire and fury might turn into one of those memorable Trump phrases.

:18:05.:18:11.

Those remarks follow a report in the Washington Post

:18:12.:18:14.

today that said the US Defense Intelligence Agency thinks

:18:15.:18:16.

North Korea has developed small nuclear warheads that can fit

:18:17.:18:19.

into its ballistic missiles, if those assessments are right,

:18:20.:18:23.

they would imply Kim Jong Un has crossed a crucial threshold.

:18:24.:18:29.

I'm joined by Mark Fitzpatrick who worked in the US Foreign Service

:18:30.:18:31.

for over 25 years and now is the Executive Director of the non

:18:32.:18:35.

nuclear proliferation organisation IISS-Americas.

:18:36.:18:45.

You have heard the comment, what do you make of them? This sounds like

:18:46.:18:53.

blustering. It sounds like the president does not know how to

:18:54.:18:58.

respond and when he does not know he responds with bluster. The United

:18:59.:19:02.

States is not going to attack North Korea, North Korea is not going to

:19:03.:19:06.

attack the US but these kind of statement and the kind of statements

:19:07.:19:10.

that North Korea has made ratchet up the tensions and could lead to

:19:11.:19:14.

misperceptions that could lead to war. Just tell us what North Korea,

:19:15.:19:22.

your assessment would be, what North Korea could do in terms of

:19:23.:19:26.

retaliation or pre-emptive strike if it wanted to using nuclear warheads?

:19:27.:19:32.

First of all there's no doubt North Korea has missiles that can reach

:19:33.:19:37.

anywhere in South Korea and Japan. And hit US bases there. I believe

:19:38.:19:43.

North Korea could mount a nuclear warhead on those missiles and they

:19:44.:19:48.

would have no trouble delivering it. That is the situation now for

:19:49.:19:52.

several years. Most recently of course North Korea has tested

:19:53.:19:56.

missiles that could reach parts of the continental United States but

:19:57.:20:01.

whether they are reliable enough and could survive the intense friction

:20:02.:20:03.

in the atmosphere, that is not known. Your question is what could

:20:04.:20:10.

North Korea do, they could start a war, a conventional war that could

:20:11.:20:14.

soon escalate into a nuclear war. They could try to attack US bases in

:20:15.:20:20.

Japan with a nuclear weapon and then threaten to attack the continental

:20:21.:20:24.

United States cities if the United States intervenes. And the

:20:25.:20:29.

Washington Post piece today seems to imply would get you more towards the

:20:30.:20:35.

continental US side of that beyond Japan and South Korea? Yes, that is

:20:36.:20:41.

a new assessment by apparently the defence intelligence agency. They

:20:42.:20:44.

said a couple of things that were worrying, that North Korea could

:20:45.:20:49.

mount could militarise warheads to fit their missiles. They also said

:20:50.:20:54.

it could be done with intercontinental ballistic missiles

:20:55.:20:58.

which is an assessment that goes beyond what they've said before.

:20:59.:21:03.

They also said North Korea might have to 60 nuclear weapons. That is

:21:04.:21:08.

three times more than most analysts believed. It sounds like worst-case

:21:09.:21:12.

analysis in that they are covering their bets. Altogether this is an

:21:13.:21:18.

issue that seems to be moving much more quickly, both the North Korean

:21:19.:21:23.

nuclear programme and the dynamics playing out. It seems to be much

:21:24.:21:27.

more quickly than anyone can remember and you wonder if it will

:21:28.:21:32.

stabilise and quite down or whether it builds up to something? It

:21:33.:21:37.

certainly has been moving more quickly, in the last couple of years

:21:38.:21:42.

with North Korea and they're very robust, rapid pace of testing of

:21:43.:21:46.

missiles. That has escalated this year. And now the rhetorical

:21:47.:21:52.

responses and assessments. But so far responses are rhetoric and we

:21:53.:21:56.

have to step back a minute and look at what the secretary of state Rex

:21:57.:22:01.

Tillerson said a couple of days ago, that the United States is not the

:22:02.:22:05.

enemy of North Korea and has no intention of attacking, willing to

:22:06.:22:09.

talk to North Korea if it is willing to stand down. So the United States

:22:10.:22:14.

is not adopting a threatening posture but when the North Koreans

:22:15.:22:18.

hear the kind of rhetoric of fire and fury, they might think the

:22:19.:22:22.

United States is getting ready to attack and they might pre-emptively

:22:23.:22:26.

attack on their own. That is a real concern. Thanks very much indeed.

:22:27.:22:30.

A big day in South Africa, President Jacob Zuma,

:22:31.:22:32.

tainted by corruption allegations and an inappropriately close

:22:33.:22:34.

relationship to a wealthy business family, the Guptas,

:22:35.:22:37.

faced a vote of no confidence in the South African parliament.

:22:38.:22:40.

It was a secret ballot, so members of his own

:22:41.:22:42.

party could knife him in the back without detection.

:22:43.:22:50.

It was quite a moment - MPs waited for the result of the vote.

:22:51.:22:54.

Those on both sides engaged in some competitive singing of a kind

:22:55.:22:57.

that we might think should be introduced here.

:22:58.:23:00.

In the end, Zuma survived the vote, but it seems tens of MPs

:23:01.:23:12.

Opponents said it's the end of the ANC, a party split,

:23:13.:23:18.

and public opinion turning against it.

:23:19.:23:22.

It might be just such a turning point in South Africa's history,

:23:23.:23:24.

but it takes a brave punter to bet against the ANC.

:23:25.:23:28.

Shortly after the vote, I managed to catch a few minutes

:23:29.:23:30.

with the Chief Whip of the ANC, Jackson Methembu.

:23:31.:23:33.

I suggested the close vote of confidence, didn't suggest

:23:34.:23:35.

there's much confidence in the President.

:23:36.:23:40.

The decision of the National Executive committee

:23:41.:23:45.

is that the president is not going anywhere.

:23:46.:23:51.

And indeed this is what we have been able to do today when in fact

:23:52.:23:54.

there was a motion by the opposition to remove our president

:23:55.:23:59.

and as a consequence also our government from office.

:24:00.:24:03.

Right, well you have, you've won the vote today,

:24:04.:24:05.

no one is going to deny you that victory.

:24:06.:24:07.

And the truth is the country is against the president

:24:08.:24:13.

and by keeping him in power you are damaging the ANC?

:24:14.:24:24.

-- ANC's image with the people of South Africa?

:24:25.:24:26.

I can assure you that the opposite is true.

:24:27.:24:28.

If we were to vote ourselves out of office at the behest

:24:29.:24:31.

of the opposition, the people who voted for the ANC,

:24:32.:24:39.

the 11 million people of our country, would have been very

:24:40.:24:41.

Because we would have given the opposition on a silver platter

:24:42.:24:48.

I'm so sorry, the opposition have a reason to dethrone

:24:49.:24:58.

It is on a platter and it is all the allegations of corruption

:24:59.:25:04.

against him which are widely believed in South Africa.

:25:05.:25:09.

And by keeping him in you have effectively said have you not,

:25:10.:25:12.

you have effectively said we're not that worried about the

:25:13.:25:15.

We acknowledge the concerns and legitimate anxieties

:25:16.:25:22.

of our people around issues of corruption.

:25:23.:25:28.

We ourselves have said around these matters we need

:25:29.:25:33.

as a matter of urgency, as a country, to institute

:25:34.:25:35.

So that all those who are found to be on the wrong side

:25:36.:25:43.

of the law, they must then face the consequences.

:25:44.:25:57.

If after the investigation indeed President Jacob Zuma is amongst

:25:58.:25:59.

those, then at that stage we can talk but not at this time

:26:00.:26:02.

when it is only innuendo and all sorts of generalities.

:26:03.:26:04.

That have been strung together to remove our president.

:26:05.:26:07.

It is a little more than innuendo, isn't it, because of the very least

:26:08.:26:10.

we know about the cattle enclosure, the amphitheatre, the swimming pool

:26:11.:26:16.

But putting that aside, where does this leave your party

:26:17.:26:21.

because quite clearly, not everyone in your

:26:22.:26:22.

Today the fifth of your Parliamentary party did not

:26:23.:26:35.

Your party is now in a very disunited place, is it not?

:26:36.:26:39.

Well, you do not need to be a rocket scientist to know that our party

:26:40.:26:42.

is working on the disunity of the African National Congress.

:26:43.:26:47.

It is something that we have been working on, it is something

:26:48.:26:50.

that we have been speaking to and again it is a matter

:26:51.:26:53.

Indeed we are disunited but all of us have agreed that we need

:26:54.:26:59.

to put all our differences aside and deal with the issues that

:27:00.:27:02.

One of those issues are allegations of corruption,

:27:03.:27:14.

Thank you very much for talking to us.

:27:15.:27:22.

Lebo Diseko is the presenter of the BBC World programme,

:27:23.:27:25.

Is this the big moment for the ANC? It certainly is. We heard Jackson

:27:26.:27:40.

saying even in the disunity, even trying to defend the ANC he has got

:27:41.:27:45.

to admit it is disunited. The difference this time, there have

:27:46.:27:49.

been several attempts to bring a vote of no-confidence against

:27:50.:27:54.

president. And this time he faced a battle from within. With the

:27:55.:27:59.

majority that the ANC holds for this vote to pass, for him to hang on,

:28:00.:28:05.

with just such a small majority, is quite something. He said it is just

:28:06.:28:11.

innuendo, we need to investigate these charges he conceded public

:28:12.:28:16.

anger needs to be responded to. Is it just innuendo? I think we need to

:28:17.:28:23.

be careful because there are charges that were dropped, that had been

:28:24.:28:26.

brought back, that still really have not been proved. He spoke about the

:28:27.:28:34.

allegations around his house and the public protector said he should pay

:28:35.:28:39.

back some of the money, not all. But the big thing that has forced this

:28:40.:28:46.

vote or lead to this being broad, allegations around his relationship

:28:47.:28:50.

with this wealthy family. And basically the allegation that the

:28:51.:28:53.

family from a different country has come to South Africa and spent a lot

:28:54.:28:57.

of money on the presidential family and are now influencing government

:28:58.:29:02.

policy and basically influencing the way the country is run. So yeah that

:29:03.:29:07.

face state capture again and again. The most interesting political

:29:08.:29:10.

experiment in Europe There's a new President,

:29:11.:29:11.

Emmanuel Macron, he's pro Europe, He's the envy of many remainers

:29:12.:29:16.

here, who wish we had one like that. Perhaps the biggest question

:29:17.:29:20.

for Europe right now Will he revitalise the radical

:29:21.:29:22.

centre ground of politics, in a way that other countries then

:29:23.:29:26.

want to follow? Well, he came to power in May,

:29:27.:29:28.

just as our election became exciting and while he has been settling

:29:29.:29:33.

into his job, we have But we can rectify that now,

:29:34.:29:36.

Mark Urban reports from Macron's Amiens Cathedral gets the son

:29:37.:29:42.

et lumiere treatment Bright colour projected

:29:43.:29:55.

onto its 13th century facade. The place regains its original

:29:56.:30:01.

appearance, to the amazement This is Emmanuel Macron's city,

:30:02.:30:04.

both his birthplace and the cradle Which now seeks to restore

:30:05.:30:13.

the fortunes of France. After an extraordinary campaign,

:30:14.:30:20.

in which an entirely new political colour scheme was deployed,

:30:21.:30:23.

President Macron must now deliver. And there are already

:30:24.:30:29.

voices in France who doubt In particular, recent polls

:30:30.:30:33.

show Macron performing poorly in the pantheon

:30:34.:30:39.

of previous presidents. TRANSLATION: We measured

:30:40.:30:50.

the approval rating of every French president since 1958

:30:51.:30:53.

and it is with one exception the biggest fall

:30:54.:30:54.

in the summer of first term. The previous fall of that size

:30:55.:30:57.

was that of Chirac in 1995. For an example of how

:30:58.:31:06.

the mood has changed, Delighted that the old game of Reds

:31:07.:31:11.

versus Gaullist blue had been outplayed by a new centrist

:31:12.:31:16.

movement, they turned But cuts to their housing allowance

:31:17.:31:19.

are already causing grumbling. TRANSLATION: For students

:31:20.:31:30.

the elections are now over. Not everyone was interested

:31:31.:31:33.

in the first place. But those that wearable more or less

:31:34.:31:36.

happy with the result. But now they're interested in things

:31:37.:31:40.

that really impact them like finding somewhere to live,

:31:41.:31:42.

finding a course that suits them. And the cuts to housing benefit

:31:43.:31:45.

which will mean less Not all is what it seems

:31:46.:31:47.

with Macron's brilliant victory. Many voted against Le Pen rather

:31:48.:31:54.

than for him as president. And in the battle for parliamentary

:31:55.:31:59.

seats, much of France abstained. In one sense it feels ludicrous

:32:00.:32:05.

to be looking for any real change in this society,

:32:06.:32:09.

so conservative in defence of its social model, just three

:32:10.:32:13.

months into this new presidency. As one Amienois said

:32:14.:32:17.

to me earlier today, And voices are beginning

:32:18.:32:21.

to be raised, questioning the new president and what he's up

:32:22.:32:28.

to and those voices are even coming A dissident group within

:32:29.:32:32.

the En Marche party has been established and already

:32:33.:32:39.

has its critique. TRANSLATION: What I have

:32:40.:32:44.

against this government and the National Assembly

:32:45.:32:47.

is that they are confusing We could have taken the time

:32:48.:32:49.

to prepare the ground Instead of rushing them

:32:50.:32:54.

through in the summer. Others have tried to get reforms

:32:55.:33:04.

through during recess, to push them through,

:33:05.:33:08.

and it's never good. At the Bastille day parade,

:33:09.:33:22.

the president played host to Donald Trump

:33:23.:33:25.

which annoyed the left. And kept things just

:33:26.:33:28.

about civil with an army chief who he then fired,

:33:29.:33:33.

annoying the right. The hard choices of governing have

:33:34.:33:36.

inevitably taken some TRANSLATION: You have public sector

:33:37.:33:38.

workers who have had their salaries frozen then retired people

:33:39.:33:48.

who are having their taxes increase. frozen then retired people who are

:33:49.:33:54.

having their taxes increased. And certain workers,

:33:55.:33:57.

largely on the left, who are against the reform

:33:58.:33:58.

of the labour market. Then on the right the part

:33:59.:34:02.

of the electorate who didn't like Macron's attitude

:34:03.:34:04.

towards the head of the armed So it's an amalgamation

:34:05.:34:06.

of grievances that have come Back in Amien, we asked two founder

:34:07.:34:10.

members of En Marche how they see the coming months

:34:11.:34:15.

for their president. TRANSLATION: It's going to be tough

:34:16.:34:17.

because if Macron is going to be able to keep his campaign promises

:34:18.:34:21.

he needs to get significant reforms through and reform

:34:22.:34:28.

in France is difficult. Strong opposition from

:34:29.:34:30.

Melenchon and certain unions TRANSLATION: We activists need

:34:31.:34:38.

to take on an educational role, to explain to French people

:34:39.:34:49.

what is happening, why certain choices are being made and of course

:34:50.:34:52.

to counter all the fake news If he is to keep the support

:34:53.:34:55.

of the National audience, Macron then will have to rediscover

:34:56.:35:00.

the energy shown in his But with strikes already

:35:01.:35:03.

called for September, and enemies gathering,

:35:04.:35:09.

that will not be easy. Next week marks the seventieth

:35:10.:35:15.

anniversary of Indian independence and the partition of the country

:35:16.:35:18.

into Hindu-majority India It was the biggest forced

:35:19.:35:21.

migration in history, as millions of muslims and hindus

:35:22.:35:30.

who were to be left in the wrong country so to speak,

:35:31.:35:33.

moved to where they would be The partition was bathed

:35:34.:35:35.

in death and tragedy, and we'll be looking back at it

:35:36.:35:38.

on this programme next week - But thousands of those

:35:39.:35:41.

who chose to remain, Hindus in Pakistan, Muslims

:35:42.:35:51.

in India, are still living with the consequences of that separation,

:35:52.:35:54.

deemed "enemies" of the nation Our South Asia correspondent,

:35:55.:35:56.

Justin Rowlatt, has met one Indian man who's spent the last 40 years

:35:57.:36:00.

fighting to save his inheritance. I am known as Suliman

:36:01.:36:08.

to family and friends. I am from a Muslim family which once

:36:09.:36:12.

ruled a very large feudal estate, including a beautiful palace,

:36:13.:36:17.

which we still live. But the Indian government is laying

:36:18.:36:35.

claim to my property, No one is paying for it, so these

:36:36.:36:38.

days everything is crumbling. This dispute goes back to 1947,

:36:39.:36:57.

the partition of India, into two states, a Muslim majority

:36:58.:37:02.

state called Pakistan and a Hindu It was estimated that

:37:03.:37:06.

1 million people died. Some Muslims went to

:37:07.:37:20.

the state of Pakistan. It was not just the country that was

:37:21.:37:28.

divided, families were divided too. In the late 50s, my father took

:37:29.:37:40.

Pakistani nationality and that is Because when India and Pakistan

:37:41.:37:44.

went to war in 1965, the government laid claim

:37:45.:37:52.

to our properties. There was an act of Parliament

:37:53.:37:57.

called the Enemy Property Act, which empowered the government

:37:58.:38:02.

to take over, temporarily, It was not just our family

:38:03.:38:05.

which was affected, thousands The properties are worth

:38:06.:38:16.

billions of dollars. But, our issue is, that only my

:38:17.:38:27.

father took Pakistani nationality. We had to fight our case

:38:28.:38:30.

from the lowest to the highest court And the Supreme Court

:38:31.:38:51.

judge said, that by no stretch of the imagination,

:38:52.:38:57.

could I be considered an enemy and considered me the heir

:38:58.:39:01.

to my father's properties. But then the government

:39:02.:39:04.

went and change the laws But then the government went

:39:05.:39:10.

and changed the laws I suppose, like so many people

:39:11.:39:12.

in India and Pakistan, we are still caught up

:39:13.:39:25.

in the repercussions of partition and the acrimonious relations

:39:26.:39:31.

between India and Pakistan. In a way, I have been forced

:39:32.:39:43.

to live in the past. And with apologies to Yates,

:39:44.:39:48.

I feel as if I'm drowning in their beauty that has long

:39:49.:39:51.

since faded from this earth. That report was produced

:39:52.:40:08.

by Justin Rowlatt. Now, as I said earlier next Tuesday

:40:09.:40:11.

marks 70 years since partition of British India and Kirsty will be

:40:12.:40:14.

presenting a special Newsnight that evening,

:40:15.:40:16.

to mark the anniversary. It'll come from the BBC radio

:40:17.:40:18.

theatre, and feature some who lived through the division,

:40:19.:40:21.

as well as leading political We'll look at the history

:40:22.:40:23.

and the effects of partition in the present, on India,

:40:24.:40:28.

Pakistan and the UK. In the last hour the death

:40:29.:40:30.

has been announced of the country singing legend -

:40:31.:40:41.

Glen Campbell - he was 81 and had been suffering

:40:42.:40:44.

from Alzheimer's disease. Campbell was a self-taught prodigy

:40:45.:40:46.

and pulled himself out of poverty We leave you with one

:40:47.:40:49.

of his greatest songs... # I am a lineman for the county

:40:50.:40:56.

and I drive the main road. # Searchin' in the sun

:40:57.:41:18.

for another overload. # I hear you singin' in the wire,

:41:19.:41:27.

I can hear you through the whine. # And the Wichita Lineman

:41:28.:41:39.

is still on the line.

:41:40.:41:50.

Evan Davis with in-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines, including the north/south death divide and the latest on Trump and North Korea. And is President Macron losing his popularity?