Browse content similar to 08/08/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The death divide - if you are a northerner | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
in England in your mid 30s, you're 50% more likely to die | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
We know the country has extreme regional imbalances, | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
but what accounts for excess mortality among prime | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
More and more people coming into the hospital | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
with alcohol-related liver injury and illness and actually, you know, | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
They have probably got nothing to live for and alcohol is an easy | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
We'll ask if this is a health issue or a national failure | :00:33. | :00:38. | |
to deal with inequality between north and south. | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
President Trump ramps up the rhetoric on North Korea. | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
They will be met with fire and few are, like the world has never seen. | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
We're in Amiens, in Northern France, birthplace of President Macron, | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
to hear how he finds out whether faith in his | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
After an extroadinary campaign, which entirely new political | :01:05. | :01:12. | |
scheme was deployed, President Macron must now deliver. | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
And there are already voices in France who doubt | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
And, a property dispute dating back to the partition | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
of India and Pakistan, 70 years ago. | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
The Indian government is laying claim to my property saying | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
We know there's a north-south divide in England. | :01:35. | :01:47. | |
That's literally been noted since the 11th century. | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
We also know your chance of dying prematurely is significantly higher | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
But a paper published today raises some alarming | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
questions about mortality, and its connection to economic | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
It looks at data on five decades of death, | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
about 25 million people in the midlands and north, | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
about 25 million people in the Midlands and north, | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
versus about 25 million people in London, the south and east. | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
The good news is that premature deaths have plummeted north | :02:16. | :02:17. | |
But the bad news is that over the years there's a persistently | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
higher premature death rate in the north, despite | :02:24. | :02:25. | |
And for those between mid-20s and mid-40s, prime age adults, | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
Since the mid-90s, the north south gap has jumped. | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
Lots of data to digest, Helen Thomas has been on Stoke | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
Industrial decline, ailing city centres, a dwindling population. | :02:43. | :03:05. | |
And, in contrast, a region, or more specifically a capital, ever | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
greedier in taking the nation's jobs and wealth. It wouldn't be a piece | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
of TV about the North-South divide without images of the North which | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
suggest industrial decay. And chopping England into two contrast | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
enhanced is a little bit cliched, and it is certainly crude. But this | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
report highlights a particular issue. For decades, you have been | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
more likely to die young if you live in the north. What is worrying is | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
over the past 15 years or so, the grim outlook has got worse, | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
specifically if you are a young adult. There is some good news. The | :03:46. | :03:53. | |
University of Manchester looked at the mortality rate, or deaths per | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
10,000 people under 75. It has fallen. But this graph shows the | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
stubborn gap between the north and south of England. If you look at | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
specific age groups, you see a surprising trend. Among 25 to | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
34-year-olds, the gap had virtually closed 20 years ago. Since then it | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
has grown considerably. The 35 to 44 age group is similar, but the gap is | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
now even bigger. The question, is why? We didn't want to draw too much | :04:27. | :04:32. | |
attention to the dealing with the intermediate factors, rather than | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
the root causes, which are social and economic. But commonly, any | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
group rise of death rate of people in that age are the diseases of | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
despair. Alcohol-related, drug-related, suicide, violent | :04:47. | :04:52. | |
deaths. His description is to wait government investment towards the | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
north, a positive discrimination to build the economy. Other research | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
has suggested that extra financial support isn't as important as | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
encouraging healthier lifestyles. To invest in risks pastors alone is to | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
ignore the underlying causes of early death. Which are accessed to | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
resources in general, have good living conditions, more control of | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
your own life, so you can make those healthy choices. So, is it time to | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
relaunch the northern powerhouse? Efforts to rebalance the economy | :05:32. | :05:34. | |
towards the North have largely failed, and measures specifically | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
aimed at health have fared us badly. Targets set in 1997, to narrow | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
health inequality between deprived and affluent areas were not met by | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
2010. A report on Wye, called progress exceptionally slow. | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
Staffordshire University's Centre for health and development is an | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
unusual partnership with two local councils. The aim a new approach of | :06:01. | :06:08. | |
tackling health inequality. Top-down investment is vital and we need more | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
of it. However, we also need the bottom-up approach and we need to | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
give people a voice in our community is actually to help direct that | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
investment so it goes to the right places. We need to be looking and | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
asking questions about quality of work and work life. This is working | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
age cohort. What it is like to be unemployed in this day and age, | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
impact about welfare reform, housing policies, education. Alcohol-related | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
death rates have risen since the mid-19 90s. Consultant at Stoke | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
University Hospital of Wales seen that first-hand. We are seeing more | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
people and the age of people is younger because people are drinking | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
at a younger age. We are seeing more women. There is more desperation. | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
People don't drink because they want to, they drink because it is a way | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
out. This is a big picture study about abroad, long-standing problem | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
and it isn't clear what might change quickly. Very targeted programmes | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
around obesity, mental health may help some people, but that risks | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
missing the most entrenched divisions. Major structural changes | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
to the economy may be the answer, but no one knows for sure and it | :07:27. | :07:28. | |
certainly isn't a quick fix. Sir Michael Marmot is | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
the Director of the UCL He is also responsible for drawing | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
up the 2010 Marmot review which set out a six-point strategy | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
for combating health inequality. Good evening. Let's go back to the | :07:40. | :07:50. | |
beginning because we are used to premature death rates falling over | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
the decades, why is that? It is good news, obviously. Because we are a | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
richer society, everything is better, nutrition is better, housing | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
is better, living conditions are better. Everything has improved. | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
Fewer accidents at work and all of that. One of the things we haven't | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
talked about, this report tallies with some stuff you have said but | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
that has flattened off over the last few years so it is not falling any | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
more? Yes, this is looking at premature mortality under age 70 | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
five. It has flattened. Flattened in the north and the South. It affects | :08:32. | :08:39. | |
everybody, what is driving that? We speculated, we speculated that | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
policies of austerity post 2010 decreased in adult social Claire | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
daily-macro care spending, decrease in expenditure per person could play | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
a role. We said it is urgent to investigate if it is related to it. | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
Let's get to the north, south issue. There is a long-standing gap. What | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
is the best succinct summary of what drives this gap because it is at all | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
ages over the decades, there has been some percentage higher | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
premature death in the North? We have some insight into it because | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
when we look at mortality according to where you are in the social | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
hierarchy. The lower you are in the social hierarchy defined by | :09:28. | :09:33. | |
education, jobs or degradation, the higher the mortality. But the | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
disadvantage of being low is bigger in the north and the South. Someone | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
in the middle of the hierarchy has higher mortality than somebody at | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
the top. But the access is bigger in the north and the South. If you are | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
a poor person in the south, equally poor to someone else in the north, | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
you will live longer in the south as that poor person in the North? You | :09:57. | :10:04. | |
will, if you are professional. Why would that be because you said | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
deprivation is driving this? Because what I identified in my review are | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
worse in the north than they are in the south. We could look at child | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
poverty. Let's take the first one on early childhood. Child poverty is | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
worst in the north than in the south. We have talked about the | :10:24. | :10:29. | |
importance of sure start children's centres. They funded by local | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
government. The decrease in funding to local is bigger, it is bigger in | :10:33. | :10:42. | |
the North than the South. Short start centres are closing in the | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
North. This issue goes back to the 90s, it is not for ever, which is | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
these younger, middle aged adults. 25 to 45 where you have seen a gap. | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
The rates have improved, or not got much worse, but, much bigger gap, | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
what is going on there? Let's go back ten years earlier. What we saw | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
in the 1980s, the difference for 25 to 45-year-olds in the north and | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
south was almost not there. But it was rising, mortality was rising | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
both in the north and south, particularly young men. That was | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
suicide, alcohol, file and deaths, the kind of disempowerment we saw | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
just then in your clip. But then what happened, in the mid-90s, | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
things improved in the south. Mortality started to decline and it | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
didn't in the North. My speculation is, but disempowerment related to | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
social economic conditions, persisted in the North when things | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
were getting better in the south. That issue around drink, the death | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
by despair, is part of what is going on in that group? Yes. If you will | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
hang on there. Joining us from Leeds is Susie Brown | :11:58. | :11:59. | |
the Chief Executive Officer at Zest, an organisation offering support | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
to people living in disadvantaged areas of Yorkshire, and in Brighton | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
is Christopher Snowdon the Head of Lifestyle Economics at | :12:06. | :12:07. | |
the Institute of Economic Affairs. Suzy, just explain what you do and | :12:08. | :12:22. | |
what you find and how successful what you do is? We have been working | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
in disadvantaged areas of leads for 15 years and we try and level the | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
playing field, essentially. So there is great inequality and | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
disadvantaged areas. We offer a range of practical support and more | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
general support as an example of the practical support we work with Jamie | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
Oliver's Ministry of food. We have projects that teach cooking skills, | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
healthy eating, budgeting and shopping to people, offering them | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
the chance to learn to cook from scratch and lead a healthier | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
lifestyle. Does it work? It does, it is strong evidence -based that shows | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
it does make a huge difference to health outcomes. More generally, we | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
offer people just general support and we are trying to lift them up | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
and give them a leg up and inspire them to lead a more fulfilling life. | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
Let me ask Christopher, I know you have a critique of certain bits of | :13:21. | :13:29. | |
policy. It doesn't feel like policy has worked over the last 20 years in | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
reducing these health disparities, what is going on? The health rates | :13:34. | :13:41. | |
themselves have fallen over the last 15 years, certainly. I feel we are | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
addressing a cold case, in a sense. It's not news in the normal sense of | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
the word. We're looking at a specific portion of the population, | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
men under the age of 45 and looking at wide death rates amongst those | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
people rose in the mid to late 1990s. I don't know why that is, the | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
author of the study says he's not sure why. We know what Michael | :14:04. | :14:10. | |
Marmot has said, the main causes of death in that age, it is generally | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
very low amongst people who are in their 20s and 30s anyway, but it is | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
suicide, alcohol and drugs. You are right to describe these things as | :14:20. | :14:29. | |
depths of despair. But income and economic growth are the great | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
prophylactics for this. You see the North has less money and it has | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
higher death rates and over time, society generally has got more | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
prosperous and the death rate has fallen. But we have this anomaly in | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
the north of England. In the 1990s specifically, I suspected drug | :14:48. | :14:49. | |
overdose is significant and other things. | :14:50. | :14:57. | |
But the gap is still there where there was no gap in that group to | :14:58. | :15:05. | |
speak of in the 1980s. That is absolutely right. And there has been | :15:06. | :15:09. | |
no recovery if you like. The rates have fallen very much since around | :15:10. | :15:15. | |
2003 or so. But they have not caught up. And it seems whatever cause that | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
spike in deaths in the 1990s is still having an effect and it would | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
be useful to know what it is. But the studies have not pinpointed | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
that. I do not think it is to do with austerity or the slowdown in | :15:30. | :15:36. | |
economic growth. The mid to 1990s when deaths was biking, economy was | :15:37. | :15:46. | |
in strong growth. Do you ever feel, one of the things that the paper | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
suggests is that public health measures have done their bit in | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
Victorian times with the sewers and vaccinations and the like and now | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
many health measures are individual measures. The paper does not believe | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
we should rely on individuals to look after themselves but do you | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
ever feel you're just trying to basically tell people how to live | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
their lives as individuals, it is not really so much a public health | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
matter. I do not think we are telling people how to live, we work | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
very much with people and offer a range of activities and groups aimed | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
at lifting people and their self-esteem and confidence and | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
giving them the tools to lift themselves perhaps out of a very bad | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
place. If you walk around a deprived community you will see a lack of | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
infrastructure perhaps, a lack of care, a lack of good things in that | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
community. And if you're born into that or find yourself in that | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
community, it is really hard to imagine ever getting out again. | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
There is all this, on television we see these lives and young people in | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
that community think that is not for me, I'm not somehow deserving of | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
that. And people really do see themselves as never having the | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
opportunity or the hope, they do not have the same aspiration to lift | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
themselves up and we are trying to help from the bottom-up and help | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
people out into better situation. Thank you all very much. | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
Not long before we came on air, President Trump aimed some pretty | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
threatening remarks towards North Korea. | :17:23. | :17:23. | |
He was at an event where he was talking about drug | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
addiction and was thrown a question about Korea. | :17:29. | :17:35. | |
North Korea, best not make any more threats to the United States. | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
They will be met with fire and fury, like the world has never seen. | :17:41. | :17:49. | |
He has been very threatening beyond normal statement. | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
And as I said, they will be met with fire, fury and frankly power. | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
The likes of which this world has never seen before. | :18:00. | :18:04. | |
Fire and fury might turn into one of those memorable Trump phrases. | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
Those remarks follow a report in the Washington Post | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
today that said the US Defense Intelligence Agency thinks | :18:15. | :18:16. | |
North Korea has developed small nuclear warheads that can fit | :18:17. | :18:19. | |
into its ballistic missiles, if those assessments are right, | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
they would imply Kim Jong Un has crossed a crucial threshold. | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
I'm joined by Mark Fitzpatrick who worked in the US Foreign Service | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
for over 25 years and now is the Executive Director of the non | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
nuclear proliferation organisation IISS-Americas. | :18:36. | :18:45. | |
You have heard the comment, what do you make of them? This sounds like | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
blustering. It sounds like the president does not know how to | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
respond and when he does not know he responds with bluster. The United | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
States is not going to attack North Korea, North Korea is not going to | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
attack the US but these kind of statement and the kind of statements | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
that North Korea has made ratchet up the tensions and could lead to | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
misperceptions that could lead to war. Just tell us what North Korea, | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
your assessment would be, what North Korea could do in terms of | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
retaliation or pre-emptive strike if it wanted to using nuclear warheads? | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
First of all there's no doubt North Korea has missiles that can reach | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
anywhere in South Korea and Japan. And hit US bases there. I believe | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
North Korea could mount a nuclear warhead on those missiles and they | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
would have no trouble delivering it. That is the situation now for | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
several years. Most recently of course North Korea has tested | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
missiles that could reach parts of the continental United States but | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
whether they are reliable enough and could survive the intense friction | :20:02. | :20:03. | |
in the atmosphere, that is not known. Your question is what could | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
North Korea do, they could start a war, a conventional war that could | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
soon escalate into a nuclear war. They could try to attack US bases in | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
Japan with a nuclear weapon and then threaten to attack the continental | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
United States cities if the United States intervenes. And the | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
Washington Post piece today seems to imply would get you more towards the | :20:30. | :20:35. | |
continental US side of that beyond Japan and South Korea? Yes, that is | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
a new assessment by apparently the defence intelligence agency. They | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
said a couple of things that were worrying, that North Korea could | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
mount could militarise warheads to fit their missiles. They also said | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
it could be done with intercontinental ballistic missiles | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
which is an assessment that goes beyond what they've said before. | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
They also said North Korea might have to 60 nuclear weapons. That is | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
three times more than most analysts believed. It sounds like worst-case | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
analysis in that they are covering their bets. Altogether this is an | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
issue that seems to be moving much more quickly, both the North Korean | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
nuclear programme and the dynamics playing out. It seems to be much | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
more quickly than anyone can remember and you wonder if it will | :21:28. | :21:32. | |
stabilise and quite down or whether it builds up to something? It | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
certainly has been moving more quickly, in the last couple of years | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
with North Korea and they're very robust, rapid pace of testing of | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
missiles. That has escalated this year. And now the rhetorical | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
responses and assessments. But so far responses are rhetoric and we | :21:53. | :21:56. | |
have to step back a minute and look at what the secretary of state Rex | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
Tillerson said a couple of days ago, that the United States is not the | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
enemy of North Korea and has no intention of attacking, willing to | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
talk to North Korea if it is willing to stand down. So the United States | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
is not adopting a threatening posture but when the North Koreans | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
hear the kind of rhetoric of fire and fury, they might think the | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
United States is getting ready to attack and they might pre-emptively | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
attack on their own. That is a real concern. Thanks very much indeed. | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
A big day in South Africa, President Jacob Zuma, | :22:31. | :22:32. | |
tainted by corruption allegations and an inappropriately close | :22:33. | :22:34. | |
relationship to a wealthy business family, the Guptas, | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
faced a vote of no confidence in the South African parliament. | :22:38. | :22:40. | |
It was a secret ballot, so members of his own | :22:41. | :22:42. | |
party could knife him in the back without detection. | :22:43. | :22:50. | |
It was quite a moment - MPs waited for the result of the vote. | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
Those on both sides engaged in some competitive singing of a kind | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
that we might think should be introduced here. | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
In the end, Zuma survived the vote, but it seems tens of MPs | :23:01. | :23:12. | |
Opponents said it's the end of the ANC, a party split, | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
and public opinion turning against it. | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
It might be just such a turning point in South Africa's history, | :23:23. | :23:24. | |
but it takes a brave punter to bet against the ANC. | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
Shortly after the vote, I managed to catch a few minutes | :23:29. | :23:30. | |
with the Chief Whip of the ANC, Jackson Methembu. | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
I suggested the close vote of confidence, didn't suggest | :23:34. | :23:35. | |
there's much confidence in the President. | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
The decision of the National Executive committee | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
is that the president is not going anywhere. | :23:46. | :23:51. | |
And indeed this is what we have been able to do today when in fact | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
there was a motion by the opposition to remove our president | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
and as a consequence also our government from office. | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
Right, well you have, you've won the vote today, | :24:04. | :24:05. | |
no one is going to deny you that victory. | :24:06. | :24:07. | |
And the truth is the country is against the president | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
and by keeping him in power you are damaging the ANC? | :24:14. | :24:24. | |
-- ANC's image with the people of South Africa? | :24:25. | :24:26. | |
I can assure you that the opposite is true. | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
If we were to vote ourselves out of office at the behest | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
of the opposition, the people who voted for the ANC, | :24:32. | :24:39. | |
the 11 million people of our country, would have been very | :24:40. | :24:41. | |
Because we would have given the opposition on a silver platter | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
I'm so sorry, the opposition have a reason to dethrone | :24:49. | :24:58. | |
It is on a platter and it is all the allegations of corruption | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
against him which are widely believed in South Africa. | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
And by keeping him in you have effectively said have you not, | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
you have effectively said we're not that worried about the | :25:13. | :25:15. | |
We acknowledge the concerns and legitimate anxieties | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
of our people around issues of corruption. | :25:23. | :25:28. | |
We ourselves have said around these matters we need | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
as a matter of urgency, as a country, to institute | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
So that all those who are found to be on the wrong side | :25:36. | :25:43. | |
of the law, they must then face the consequences. | :25:44. | :25:57. | |
If after the investigation indeed President Jacob Zuma is amongst | :25:58. | :25:59. | |
those, then at that stage we can talk but not at this time | :26:00. | :26:02. | |
when it is only innuendo and all sorts of generalities. | :26:03. | :26:04. | |
That have been strung together to remove our president. | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
It is a little more than innuendo, isn't it, because of the very least | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
we know about the cattle enclosure, the amphitheatre, the swimming pool | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
But putting that aside, where does this leave your party | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
because quite clearly, not everyone in your | :26:22. | :26:22. | |
Today the fifth of your Parliamentary party did not | :26:23. | :26:35. | |
Your party is now in a very disunited place, is it not? | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
Well, you do not need to be a rocket scientist to know that our party | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
is working on the disunity of the African National Congress. | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
It is something that we have been working on, it is something | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
that we have been speaking to and again it is a matter | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
Indeed we are disunited but all of us have agreed that we need | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
to put all our differences aside and deal with the issues that | :27:00. | :27:02. | |
One of those issues are allegations of corruption, | :27:03. | :27:14. | |
Thank you very much for talking to us. | :27:15. | :27:22. | |
Lebo Diseko is the presenter of the BBC World programme, | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
Is this the big moment for the ANC? It certainly is. We heard Jackson | :27:26. | :27:40. | |
saying even in the disunity, even trying to defend the ANC he has got | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
to admit it is disunited. The difference this time, there have | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
been several attempts to bring a vote of no-confidence against | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
president. And this time he faced a battle from within. With the | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
majority that the ANC holds for this vote to pass, for him to hang on, | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
with just such a small majority, is quite something. He said it is just | :28:06. | :28:11. | |
innuendo, we need to investigate these charges he conceded public | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
anger needs to be responded to. Is it just innuendo? I think we need to | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
be careful because there are charges that were dropped, that had been | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
brought back, that still really have not been proved. He spoke about the | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
allegations around his house and the public protector said he should pay | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
back some of the money, not all. But the big thing that has forced this | :28:40. | :28:46. | |
vote or lead to this being broad, allegations around his relationship | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
with this wealthy family. And basically the allegation that the | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
family from a different country has come to South Africa and spent a lot | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
of money on the presidential family and are now influencing government | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
policy and basically influencing the way the country is run. So yeah that | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
face state capture again and again. The most interesting political | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
experiment in Europe There's a new President, | :29:11. | :29:11. | |
Emmanuel Macron, he's pro Europe, He's the envy of many remainers | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
here, who wish we had one like that. Perhaps the biggest question | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
for Europe right now Will he revitalise the radical | :29:21. | :29:22. | |
centre ground of politics, in a way that other countries then | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
want to follow? Well, he came to power in May, | :29:27. | :29:28. | |
just as our election became exciting and while he has been settling | :29:29. | :29:33. | |
into his job, we have But we can rectify that now, | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
Mark Urban reports from Macron's Amiens Cathedral gets the son | :29:37. | :29:42. | |
et lumiere treatment Bright colour projected | :29:43. | :29:55. | |
onto its 13th century facade. The place regains its original | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
appearance, to the amazement This is Emmanuel Macron's city, | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
both his birthplace and the cradle Which now seeks to restore | :30:05. | :30:13. | |
the fortunes of France. After an extraordinary campaign, | :30:14. | :30:20. | |
in which an entirely new political colour scheme was deployed, | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
President Macron must now deliver. And there are already | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
voices in France who doubt In particular, recent polls | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
show Macron performing poorly in the pantheon | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
of previous presidents. TRANSLATION: We measured | :30:40. | :30:50. | |
the approval rating of every French president since 1958 | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
and it is with one exception the biggest fall | :30:54. | :30:54. | |
in the summer of first term. The previous fall of that size | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
was that of Chirac in 1995. For an example of how | :30:58. | :31:06. | |
the mood has changed, Delighted that the old game of Reds | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
versus Gaullist blue had been outplayed by a new centrist | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
movement, they turned But cuts to their housing allowance | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
are already causing grumbling. TRANSLATION: For students | :31:20. | :31:30. | |
the elections are now over. Not everyone was interested | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
in the first place. But those that wearable more or less | :31:34. | :31:36. | |
happy with the result. But now they're interested in things | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
that really impact them like finding somewhere to live, | :31:41. | :31:42. | |
finding a course that suits them. And the cuts to housing benefit | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
which will mean less Not all is what it seems | :31:46. | :31:47. | |
with Macron's brilliant victory. Many voted against Le Pen rather | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
than for him as president. And in the battle for parliamentary | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
seats, much of France abstained. In one sense it feels ludicrous | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
to be looking for any real change in this society, | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
so conservative in defence of its social model, just three | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
months into this new presidency. As one Amienois said | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
to me earlier today, And voices are beginning | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
to be raised, questioning the new president and what he's up | :32:22. | :32:28. | |
to and those voices are even coming A dissident group within | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
the En Marche party has been established and already | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
has its critique. TRANSLATION: What I have | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
against this government and the National Assembly | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
is that they are confusing We could have taken the time | :32:48. | :32:49. | |
to prepare the ground Instead of rushing them | :32:50. | :32:54. | |
through in the summer. Others have tried to get reforms | :32:55. | :33:04. | |
through during recess, to push them through, | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
and it's never good. At the Bastille day parade, | :33:09. | :33:22. | |
the president played host to Donald Trump | :33:23. | :33:25. | |
which annoyed the left. And kept things just | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
about civil with an army chief who he then fired, | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
annoying the right. The hard choices of governing have | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
inevitably taken some TRANSLATION: You have public sector | :33:37. | :33:38. | |
workers who have had their salaries frozen then retired people | :33:39. | :33:48. | |
who are having their taxes increase. frozen then retired people who are | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
having their taxes increased. And certain workers, | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
largely on the left, who are against the reform | :33:58. | :33:58. | |
of the labour market. Then on the right the part | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
of the electorate who didn't like Macron's attitude | :34:03. | :34:04. | |
towards the head of the armed So it's an amalgamation | :34:05. | :34:06. | |
of grievances that have come Back in Amien, we asked two founder | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
members of En Marche how they see the coming months | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
for their president. TRANSLATION: It's going to be tough | :34:16. | :34:17. | |
because if Macron is going to be able to keep his campaign promises | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
he needs to get significant reforms through and reform | :34:22. | :34:28. | |
in France is difficult. Strong opposition from | :34:29. | :34:30. | |
Melenchon and certain unions TRANSLATION: We activists need | :34:31. | :34:38. | |
to take on an educational role, to explain to French people | :34:39. | :34:49. | |
what is happening, why certain choices are being made and of course | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
to counter all the fake news If he is to keep the support | :34:53. | :34:55. | |
of the National audience, Macron then will have to rediscover | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
the energy shown in his But with strikes already | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
called for September, and enemies gathering, | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
that will not be easy. Next week marks the seventieth | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
anniversary of Indian independence and the partition of the country | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
into Hindu-majority India It was the biggest forced | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
migration in history, as millions of muslims and hindus | :35:22. | :35:30. | |
who were to be left in the wrong country so to speak, | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
moved to where they would be The partition was bathed | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
in death and tragedy, and we'll be looking back at it | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
on this programme next week - But thousands of those | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
who chose to remain, Hindus in Pakistan, Muslims | :35:42. | :35:51. | |
in India, are still living with the consequences of that separation, | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
deemed "enemies" of the nation Our South Asia correspondent, | :35:55. | :35:56. | |
Justin Rowlatt, has met one Indian man who's spent the last 40 years | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
fighting to save his inheritance. I am known as Suliman | :36:01. | :36:08. | |
to family and friends. I am from a Muslim family which once | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
ruled a very large feudal estate, including a beautiful palace, | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
which we still live. But the Indian government is laying | :36:18. | :36:35. | |
claim to my property, No one is paying for it, so these | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
days everything is crumbling. This dispute goes back to 1947, | :36:39. | :36:57. | |
the partition of India, into two states, a Muslim majority | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
state called Pakistan and a Hindu It was estimated that | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
1 million people died. Some Muslims went to | :37:07. | :37:20. | |
the state of Pakistan. It was not just the country that was | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
divided, families were divided too. In the late 50s, my father took | :37:29. | :37:40. | |
Pakistani nationality and that is Because when India and Pakistan | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
went to war in 1965, the government laid claim | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
to our properties. There was an act of Parliament | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
called the Enemy Property Act, which empowered the government | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
to take over, temporarily, It was not just our family | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
which was affected, thousands The properties are worth | :38:06. | :38:16. | |
billions of dollars. But, our issue is, that only my | :38:17. | :38:27. | |
father took Pakistani nationality. We had to fight our case | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
from the lowest to the highest court And the Supreme Court | :38:31. | :38:51. | |
judge said, that by no stretch of the imagination, | :38:52. | :38:57. | |
could I be considered an enemy and considered me the heir | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
to my father's properties. But then the government | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
went and change the laws But then the government went | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
and changed the laws I suppose, like so many people | :39:11. | :39:12. | |
in India and Pakistan, we are still caught up | :39:13. | :39:25. | |
in the repercussions of partition and the acrimonious relations | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
between India and Pakistan. In a way, I have been forced | :39:32. | :39:43. | |
to live in the past. And with apologies to Yates, | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
I feel as if I'm drowning in their beauty that has long | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
since faded from this earth. That report was produced | :39:52. | :40:08. | |
by Justin Rowlatt. Now, as I said earlier next Tuesday | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
marks 70 years since partition of British India and Kirsty will be | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
presenting a special Newsnight that evening, | :40:15. | :40:16. | |
to mark the anniversary. It'll come from the BBC radio | :40:17. | :40:18. | |
theatre, and feature some who lived through the division, | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
as well as leading political We'll look at the history | :40:22. | :40:23. | |
and the effects of partition in the present, on India, | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
Pakistan and the UK. In the last hour the death | :40:29. | :40:30. | |
has been announced of the country singing legend - | :40:31. | :40:41. | |
Glen Campbell - he was 81 and had been suffering | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
from Alzheimer's disease. Campbell was a self-taught prodigy | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
and pulled himself out of poverty We leave you with one | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
of his greatest songs... # I am a lineman for the county | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
and I drive the main road. # Searchin' in the sun | :40:57. | :41:18. | |
for another overload. # I hear you singin' in the wire, | :41:19. | :41:27. | |
I can hear you through the whine. # And the Wichita Lineman | :41:28. | :41:39. | |
is still on the line. | :41:40. | :41:50. |