Browse content similar to 07/09/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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After Antigua and Barbuda, in one hour Hurricane Irma will do | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
Wooden homes versus 180 mph winds and 20-foot waves. | :00:10. | :00:17. | |
Everyone who can has moved to the highest ground, | :00:18. | :00:21. | |
as one of the strongest Atlantic storms in history causes havoc. | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
We'll ask the islands' governor what he can do in the face | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
The Eurocrats are ganging up on David Davis again, | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
suggesting he's not very good at negotiating with them. | :00:33. | :00:35. | |
Meanwhile the Eurosceptics are suggesting it doesn't matter, | :00:36. | :00:37. | |
because Angela Merkel will be the one to cut the deal. | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
It is down to Mutti to then actually leave the process. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
Now, she'll say, oh, I'm not leading this, and | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
officially she'll be behind the scenes. | :00:51. | :00:51. | |
But we all know that what Germany wants here, Germany will | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
One of Labour's most prominent Remainers and a Tory leaver | :00:55. | :01:01. | |
are here to pick the bones out of that one. | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
Also tonight, is devout religion and political | :01:06. | :01:06. | |
We'll ask the House of Commons chaplin, Rose Hudson Wilkin. | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
And he's one of the most famous photographers in the world. | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
Mario Testino tells us his most embarrassing secret. | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
Useless in the kitchen, useless with cameras. | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
I a very short time, the full force of Hurricane Irma | :01:24. | :01:52. | |
is due to batter across the British Overseas Territory | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
The little group of Caribbean islands' 35,000 residents have | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
already seen the devastation wrought by the Category 5 storm | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
in St Martin, Antigua, the BVI and Barbuda, | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
where it flattened 90% of the territories' buildings. | :02:03. | :02:03. | |
We'll be hearing shortly from some of those who are waiting nervously | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
But first, what - if anything - does the intensity of this year's | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
hurricane season tell us about the occurrence | :02:12. | :02:13. | |
Irma is the strongest Atlantic storm in a decade, | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
and comes hot on the heels of Hurricane Harvey, which wreaked | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
Some have asked whether climate change might be having an impact. | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
Or does extreme weather sometimes just happen? | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
Seen from space, you could almost say Irma looks beautiful. | :02:28. | :02:39. | |
From ground level, though, she has a very different face. | :02:40. | :02:41. | |
The Caribbean island of St Martin, hit by 185mph winds, | :02:42. | :02:44. | |
and Irma is still going, heading perhaps for the US mainland. | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
It is what we sometimes rather helplessly refer | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
to as an act of God - no-one to blame, nothing to be done | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
but pick through the wreckage, mourn the dead and count the cost. | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
But with two major hurricanes one after another, is this | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
perhaps something else, an act of man, or at least | :03:02. | :03:04. | |
The Greek president today was categoric - | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
this WAS climate change, and President Trump must act. | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
"I speak directly to the United States," he said, | :03:17. | :03:18. | |
"because they the victims of climate change for the second | :03:19. | :03:20. | |
But are the scientists as certain as the politicians? | :03:21. | :03:29. | |
From observations alone, we will never be able to say | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
that this is the event which would only have happened | :03:33. | :03:34. | |
in a changing climate, because if you drill down | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
to the individual storm, all extreme events are unique. | :03:37. | :03:43. | |
However, we can say, and we need observations and climate | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
models to do these studies, but we have climate models nowadays | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
that CAN do this kind of job, we can say that the likelihood | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
of certain events occurring has changed due | :03:56. | :03:57. | |
And definitely the very extreme rainfall is one of the things | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
where the likelihood has increased due to climate change. | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
This year in the North Atlantic, there have so far been 11 named | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
storms, of which six have been hurricanes. | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
The average between 1981 and 2010 was six named storms, | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
and 2.6 hurricanes - so we appear to be well up. | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
In terms of wind speed, Irma is the joint second-strongest | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
on record, at 185mph, eclipsed only by Hurricane Alan | :04:28. | :04:29. | |
in 1980, with a maximum wind speed of 190mph. | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
And with two and a quarter days at Category 5 intensity so far, | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
Irma is the fourth longest duration hurricane on record, | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
but still a whole day behind Hurricane Cuba, | :04:45. | :04:46. | |
which in 1932 blew for three and a quarter days. | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
The mechanism by which a warming climate might cause more hurricanes | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
The fuel that drives hurricanes is water vapour, | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
and the water vapour is evaporated off the sea surface and the warmer | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
the sea surface, the more water vapour is evaporated | :05:06. | :05:07. | |
and there's more energy to drive the storms. | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
So, with global warming, the sea is warmer and there's more water | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
being evaporated and there's more of the fuel to drive the big storms. | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
And if we look at this graph produced by the US | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
National Oceanographic and Atmospheric | :05:21. | :05:21. | |
year, it does show a steady uptake of average sea temperatures. | :05:22. | :05:30. | |
However, there are many other factors at play | :05:31. | :05:32. | |
in the formation of a storm, some of which actually become LESS | :05:33. | :05:34. | |
There is a competing effect, which is that if we also see higher | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
temperatures higher up in the atmosphere, that | :05:41. | :05:42. | |
And so we cannot say that we will see more intense | :05:43. | :05:51. | |
hurricanes full-stop in a changing climate. | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
But with the hurricanes that have been analysed so far, | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
there have been a number that have intensified due to higher | :05:59. | :06:00. | |
temperatures, but there is also a number that have weakened due | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
But certainly, what we can definitely say is that | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
the associated rainfall in them, there we see the effects of climate | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
It's true that with 49.32 inches of rain, Hurricane Harvey is the US | :06:13. | :06:21. | |
Tropical Storm Amelia in 1978 dumped 48 inches and Hurricane Easy | :06:22. | :06:33. | |
And Tropical Storm Claudette in 1979 dropped 45 inches of rain. | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
And none of these would presumably be blamed on climate change. | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
So, we can't say a specific storm now is due to climate change, | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
but we can say, if we look over decades, we'll be able | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
to see that the intensity of the storms is going up. | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
What has caused the storm that brought them so much misery | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
is probably not of much interest to the people in the Caribbean, | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
having to rebuild their homes and lives. | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
In the genesis of storms, science can't offer certainty - | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
just probabilities and trends over time. | :07:05. | :07:12. | |
So how are people in the path of Irma preparing for her arrival? | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
John Freeman is the governor of Turcs and Caicos. | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
Before we came on air I spoke to him via Skype. | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
I started by asking him about his concerns following the devastation | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
suffered by the islands nearby. Absolutely, Kirsty, I mean we've | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
seen what's happened to the British Overseas Territories | :07:33. | :07:34. | |
further to the south, But it's also a cause for making | :07:35. | :07:36. | |
the best preparations we can. As I speak, the winds | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
are getting up pretty strongly. The outer tentacles of Irma reaching | :07:42. | :07:43. | |
us, the palm trees are bending over. What preparations have | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
people been making? Well, we've been preparing | :07:48. | :07:55. | |
for some little while now. But the main things | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
is that we wanted to make sure we did not have people on the island | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
who didn't need to be here, so we've been rushing forward | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
with working with the airlines to get particularly | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
tourists off the island. We have our shelters open | :08:08. | :08:09. | |
and operating for people to go into, particularly those from vulnerable | :08:10. | :08:20. | |
areas, some of whom have also been in any case encouraged to move away | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
from areas where there's going to be flooding, because the sea surge | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
is notably high as it approaches us, We've also ordered the evacuation | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
and secured the evacuation, apart from a few people who didn't | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
want to move, of two islands And you're all moving | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
to higher ground? I understand the storm surge | :08:37. | :08:38. | |
could be as much as 20 feet, and as you say, | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
you're very low-lying. The point is, however it comes in, | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
it's going to flood over quite significant areas, | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
and people will move Our shelters obviously have moved | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
up into higher ground. And some people don't | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
always want to move, but we are encouraging | :08:59. | :09:00. | |
them to do so. We've been chasing around this | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
morning trying still to get people in and effectively, | :09:04. | :09:05. | |
we are beginning to close down now on the islands, saying to everyone, | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
get off the streets, don't drive around any more, | :09:09. | :09:10. | |
prepare yourselves So finally, tell me, | :09:11. | :09:12. | |
what is the atmosphere I think people genuinely | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
are very nervous. There is a strong sense | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
of pulling together, but there People here know what | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
hurricanes can do. They have seen what's been happening | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
in the Leeward Islands. So of course people are rightly | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
and understandably frightened. But we have to be | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
frightened but purposeful. Dr Freeman, thank | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
you very much indeed. David Davis, the UK's Brexit | :09:43. | :09:44. | |
negotiator, has been taking As the second reading | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
of the EU Withdrawal Bill began in Westminster, | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
it emerged that Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
Parliament, had questioned both his stability and his | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
accountability at a meeting For good measure, Mr Juncker today | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
added that he believed the Brexit Mr Davis' counterpart, | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
Michel Barnier, also expressed his frustration, | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
warning he thinks the talks over the UK's exit bill | :10:14. | :10:15. | |
are going backwards and branding Britain's proposals on the Irish | :10:16. | :10:17. | |
border as unacceptable. Some believe such language | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
from Europe's top two is more than boisterous positioning, | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
and a sign that Brussels is genuinely losing patience - | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
boding badly, you might think, Here's our political | :10:33. | :10:34. | |
editor Nick Watt. The seasons, they are | :10:35. | :10:50. | |
a-changing, and changing at a faster pace than our | :10:51. | :10:52. | |
politics. As autumn descends on us, the first | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
deadline in the Brexit talks hoves into view at the end of next | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
month, and Brussels is beginning to TRANSLATION: I've been very | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
disappointed by the UK position, as expressed last week, | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
because it seems to be backtracking on the original commitment of the UK | :11:10. | :11:20. | |
to honour its international commitments, including | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
the commitments post-Brexit. His boss is none too | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
happy, either, as these minutes from a meeting | :11:26. | :11:27. | |
in July make clear. Mr Juncker expresses concern | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
about the question of the stability and accountability of the UK | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
negotiator and his apparent lack of involvement, which risks | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
jeopardising the success of the Those barbed remarks were met | :11:40. | :11:41. | |
with short shrift in It sounds to me like a kind | :11:42. | :11:48. | |
of bar-room annoyance, a few drinks and away you go, | :11:49. | :11:57. | |
you get a bit annoyed. Over here at the Brexiter | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
department, they're brushing off the fuselage | :12:03. | :12:04. | |
from Brussels. One senior figure told me that | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
David Davis would only be worried if he were being | :12:12. | :12:13. | |
portrayed as a pussycat. Across the Channel, | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
Michel Barnier is in a different mood - | :12:21. | :12:22. | |
is so frustrated with the Brexit secretary that EU's chief negotiator | :12:23. | :12:31. | |
is prepared to put a question mark over the entire talks | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
by feeling next month that insufficient progress has been made. | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
Some people in Britain believe still we can | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
never set every thing at the | :12:42. | :12:42. | |
same time together and make a conclusion until March 2019. | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
But in the negotiations about a free-trade | :12:46. | :12:46. | |
We literally have to settle if it should be a very good, constructive | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
relationship in the future, it needs much more | :12:54. | :12:55. | |
time, as we know come of another trade negotiations. | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
So what exactly is David Davis's game? | :12:59. | :12:59. | |
I've just tendered my resignation from Parliament to the | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
That will trigger a process which will lead to a by-election. | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
The Brexit Secretary has always been something of a | :13:11. | :13:12. | |
subversive figure who has made a career out of challenging | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
authority, and that's exactly what he's doing now. | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
David Davis believes he is successfully undermining the central | :13:20. | :13:22. | |
tenet of Michel Barnier's negotiating strategy, which is that | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
the UK cannot discuss its future trading relationship with the EU | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
until it has cleared up the terms of its departure. | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
David has managed to drop back into the ring, play | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
them at their own game, which is, "But you keep asking about Ireland | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
and the borders and the trade arrangements - we can't settle any | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
of that until we settle the trade arrangements. | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
"So we can't discuss anything - let's get to the trade | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
arrangements and then we will know what we can | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
do about the border in Northern Ireland." | :13:56. | :13:56. | |
And that final bit in the last week has been the big | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
expose to the nonsense of we can settle this come about all | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
And then there is the question of Germany's role after its | :14:03. | :14:11. | |
David Davis dismisses Michel Barnier's October | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
deadline for an assessment of the talks, on the grounds that just one | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
date matters - the formation of the new German government, probably | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
Once she has got her domestics in order, | :14:24. | :14:31. | |
she re-enters the ring, and it is down | :14:32. | :14:33. | |
She will say, I'm not leading this, but we all know that | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
what Germany wants here, Germany | :14:40. | :14:41. | |
will get, in the European Union context. | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
Angela Merkel I know very well is very much for this strategy | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
and she was one of the people behind this strategy. | :14:54. | :14:59. | |
She will stay Chancellor and will not change her | :15:00. | :15:01. | |
When autumn turns to winter, Britain hopes | :15:02. | :15:11. | |
for a change of heart, but the current message from Berlin | :15:12. | :15:13. | |
never compromise on fundamental rules of the EU. | :15:14. | :15:22. | |
I should, of course, just say that Jean-Claude Juncker is the President | :15:23. | :15:36. | |
of the commission. Nick, the Brexit secretary | :15:37. | :15:37. | |
was in the Commons today for the second reading | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
of the EU Withdrawal Bill, but the Government has been facing | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
another challenge on Brexit That's right. Pressure also from | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
Eurosceptic MPs who began circulating a letter saying that the | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
transition period, immediately after we leave the EU, should not be used | :15:53. | :15:59. | |
to create a soft Brexit. This comes as there is a debate in the cabinet | :16:00. | :16:02. | |
about how to go about that transition. David Davis said in the | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
Commons today that that should be close to EU membership, but the | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
details and the timing of that transition have not been worked out | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
in Cabinet, and there are Cabinet minister allies who fear that the | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
Prime Minister is listening very carefully to those Eurosceptic MPs | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
who want that transition not to look like EU membership but to be as far | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
away from EU membership as possible. But I spoke to a Remain member of | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
the Cabinet who said that the Prime Minister has agreed to their | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
phrasing - there should be no cliff edge Brexit which means when we | :16:37. | :16:39. | |
leave, we barely noticed. We noticed it when we come out of the | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
transition. And this was before they went into the Commons today? Yes, | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
David Davis, whilst he was taking the questions, he said all but. And | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
of course, it's not necessarily just trouble from the right, it is from | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
the left is well? We have a big moment with Keir Starmer Stena | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
Shadow Brexit secretary a few weeks ago, who said that the UK should be | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
within the single market. And then in an interview in the Financial | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
Times today, he talked about how that relationship with a customs | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
union could continue after the transition period. Trustingly, | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
silence from Jeremy Corbyn and a number of Brexit Labour MPs are | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
saying that they will not go along with its. What is interesting is | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
that the Labour position is very similar to the EU view on how a | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
transition should be, which is basically membership minus the | :17:36. | :17:41. | |
votes. And as you saw, I interviewed that Bertrand CDU MEP from Germany, | :17:42. | :17:48. | |
close to Angela Merkel, and he said to me, he describes the Labour | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
approach as a good paper. Interesting to see how that goes | :17:52. | :17:59. | |
down. Indeed. Hilary Benn is a Labour MP, former Shadow Foreign | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
Secretary and chair of the Brexit select committee. He campaigned for | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
Remain. Charlie Elphicke voted Remain but has since come a member | :18:09. | :18:15. | |
of the Tory European Research Group, which is believed to have been | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
behind today's letter. Charlie Elphicke, did you put your name to | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
that letter? It was not for me to decide but I thought the most | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
important thing about it, it was not aimed at the Government public was | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
aimed at the Labour Party, who have shifted their position dramatically | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
since the election. They stood on a manifesto of leaving the single | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
market and the customs union and now they're talking about a transition | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
period. But the European Research Group, behind the latter, suggested | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
you for tonight's programme, and they are in favour of a hard Brexit. | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
It is not to do with Labour, it is to do with your concerns about | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
people like Philip Hammond? I don't accept that at all. Any fermentation | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
period needs to be over by the time of the next general election, and | :19:06. | :19:11. | |
then we can move on as a country. -- any implementation period. That is | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
different from the Labour position, which is a transition without any | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
end date at all. So it would be a defined transition period beyond | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
which there is no customs union? We have a clear instruction from the | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
British people to end uncontrolled immigration from the European Union. | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
That means leaving the single market. We want to be able to strike | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
trade deals around the world, and our membership of the customs union | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
is clearly not compatible with that. Let's just bring Hilary Benn. This | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
letter was directed at you? Well, the Conservative Party is having its | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
own arguments and difficulties. I think the real problem the | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
Government has got, apart from the very strong criticism of the EU | :19:56. | :20:03. | |
Withdrawal Bill which we saw today, is, they are having to bring their | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
Brexiteers along and make them realise a fundamental truth - it | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
will not be possible to negotiate this all singing, all dancing | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
bespoke trade and market access agreement in the 10.5 months that | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
we've got left. Therefore we will HAVE to have transitional | :20:23. | :20:24. | |
arrangements. Nobody is suggesting that there won't be. Well, there's | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
been a long argument within the Conservative Party about whether | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
there should be, and we've wasted so much time over the 15 months since | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
the referendum result getting to the point where what is absolutely | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
obvious, namely, there WILL have to be transitional arrangements, is | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
finally being recognised, but it's a difficult message for some | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
conservatives to swallow. Is it not Labour which is actually undermining | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
Brexit, listening to Keir Starmer? Absolutely not. We say very clearly | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
in our manifesto, we accept the outcome of the referendum, we voted | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
in favour of the Article 50 legislation, Tanya will leave the | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
European Union at the end of March 2019. The question now is not | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
whether we are leaving, the question is, what kind of relationship we're | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
going to have with the European Union after we've left? Tonight the | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
boss of Jaguar Land Rover said that any prospect of leaving without a | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
transition would be a disaster. And that is the view expressed in many, | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
many people in business. And during that time, if we can see minimal | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
change after March 2019, it is going to mean staying in the customs union | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
and the single market until the final deal is negotiated. Keir | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
Starmer is saying, remain in a customs union within the single | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
market without that is what he said in his article for the transition. | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
Out of the question? What you're hearing is the sound of Labour | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
figures who want to remain in the European Union by stealth - this is | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
hotel California, you can check out but you can never leave. We are | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
saying we should get on and have a clear sense of direction that we're | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
going to leave the European Union by the time of the next general | :22:12. | :22:16. | |
election. So, what we had over the last 48 hours is, we've had sight of | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
one of the plans the Government has for immigration, and the thing about | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
that is, Hilary Benn, there's been a deafening silence from Labour on | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
those plans, which, of course, the Government says is just one of a | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
number of solutions, and people in the hospitality industry are up in | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
arms - Labour has not been up in arms, Labour has not been vocal? I | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
accept that one of the messages from the referendum result was that | :22:46. | :22:47. | |
people were concerned about free movement, and when we leave the | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
European Union, free movement will come to an end and we will have to | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
agree what our immigration policy is going to... Hang on... The point | :22:55. | :23:05. | |
which Yvette Cooper made was this - if the Government wants to have a | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
conversation about what future immigration policy is going to be | :23:09. | :23:14. | |
like a, don't have leaked drafts of papers appearing, start the debate | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
about how we're going to get the people that we need to keep the | :23:18. | :23:23. | |
British economy strong. And that's why we need to have a reasonable | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
transition. The very basic point is, you have to have something to | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
implement in order to have an in ferment patient period. At the | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
moment you're not going to conclude the negotiations in the time. Jeremy | :23:38. | :23:46. | |
Corbyn has said absolutely nothing, he's being completely absent from | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
this conversation. It's a case, isn't it, that his hero, your | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
father, who abhorred Europe as a capitalist plot, is exactly what | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
Jeremy Corbyn thinks - you don't disagree with that? Well, the | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
referendum results show that the nation is split down the middle. The | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
challenge for us is, we are leaving. Isn't challenge for Jeremy Corbyn to | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
step up to the plate? We have to decide what kind of future | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
immigration policy we are going to have and what it is possible to | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
negotiate with the European Union so that we don't end up damaging our | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
economic prospects, because a lot rests on this. As your report | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
demonstrated, we are six months into the negotiation, there hasn't been | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
agreement reached. But if there hasn't been agreement reached, you | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
with the the Labour leader, he has been absolutely nowhere in this | :24:47. | :24:48. | |
conversation, because his heart is not in it. No, because Keir Starmer | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
set out on behalf of the shadow cabinet, including Jeremy Corbyn, | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
what our policy is and what transitional arrangements should | :25:02. | :25:04. | |
look like. And that is where the Government is going to have to end | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
up, whether Brexiteers like it or not. | :25:08. | :25:15. | |
"A thoroughly modern bigot" - that was just one epithet used today | :25:16. | :25:18. | |
to describe Tory backbencher Jacob Rees-Mogg after he told | :25:19. | :25:20. | |
Good Morning Britain yesterday that he was opposed to abortion | :25:21. | :25:22. | |
in all circumstances, including rape and incest. | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
The MP, who was this week named by activists as the favourite | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
to take over from Theresa May in a straw poll by Conservative | :25:28. | :25:30. | |
Home, said life begins at the point of conception. | :25:31. | :25:32. | |
He also says that, as a Catholic, he disagrees | :25:33. | :25:34. | |
Life is sacrosanct and begins at the point of conception. | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
Say you were Prime Minister, and a woman is raped | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
by a family member, right, you would say she had absolutely no | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
No, she would have a right under UK law. | :25:50. | :25:59. | |
But you wouldn't agree with that right? | :26:00. | :26:00. | |
No, but what's your personal opinion? | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
My personal opinion is that life begins at the point | :26:05. | :26:06. | |
of conception, and abortion is morally indefensible. | :26:07. | :26:08. | |
Well, I wouldn't, because that wouldn't be the law of the land. | :26:09. | :26:12. | |
So, if someone's deeply-held religious views conflict | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
with secular values, should that be a barrier | :26:16. | :26:17. | |
And might that depend on the importance of religion | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
This week, in a survey for the National Centre | :26:21. | :26:28. | |
for Social Research, for almost the first time, more | :26:29. | :26:30. | |
53% - describe themselves as having no religion. | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
I'm joined by the DUP MP Iain Paisley Junior, | :26:35. | :26:36. | |
Rose Hudson-Wilkin, who is Chaplain to the Speaker of the House | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
of Commons, and by the Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee. | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
First of all, Rose Hudson-Wilkin, do you think that Jacob Rees-Mogg, as a | :26:43. | :26:56. | |
religious man, was in than to say what he said he should not be barred | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
from high office? We live in a liberal democracy. Freedom of | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
speech, freedom of conscience, and so it is important for anyone in any | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
particular role to be able to express that this is what they feel | :27:08. | :27:11. | |
or this is what they believe. I do not believe that it should bar them | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
from leadership of any kind. But what about if the consensus goes the | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
other way, does that make a difference? What do you mean. If the | :27:23. | :27:31. | |
consensus, for example, is views about incest and rape, that | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
particular position, is a view which is not necessarily held by the | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
majority of the population - does that matter? Well, the population | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
will soon do something about that. They will say, I'm sorry, we don't | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
want to have this person, but I'm talking specifically about religious | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
views, which should not be apart from leadership, any kind of | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
leadership. It is a form of discrimination, isn't it, to say | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
that somebody who holds deep religious views is not suitable to | :28:05. | :28:12. | |
hold high office? Yes, he wouldn't make windows into men's souls, what | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
people believe is their own business - what matters is there policies and | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
their politics. And often those two get in the way. If you wanted to | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
advocate restoring the kind of abortion restrictions that he wants, | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
you probably would not get elected. There is nothing to stop him | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
standing for office. The Conservative Party might well be mad | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
enough to select him. He has made it clear of course that that would not | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
be a platform on which he would stand, he's made that clear. It's a | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
personal, deeply held view. In this day and age, is that acceptable or | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
not? We live in a democracy, presumably all views, whatever their | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
stripe or religion, should be acceptable as long as they are not | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
hate speak or violence or whatever? I think gay people might take it is | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
hate speak to say that they should not be allowed to get married and do | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
various things. But I agree with Rose, it's up to the electric to | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
decide who they would want to vote for. I think he wouldn't have a hope | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
in hell, I hope not, partly because those views are part of a much wider | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
package of where he stands. He is on the very, very far right. People | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
think he's a rather charming, facetious man who is full of jokes | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
and... But in fact he's very far right, he's a climate change denier, | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
he has written an article in the Telegraph the other day... | :29:34. | :29:40. | |
We know what happened to Tim Farron after the election. He said he felt | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
that to be a committed Christian and leader of the party was impossible. | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
I'm sorry he came to that conclusion, and I'm sorry about the | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
pressure that was placed upon him, but the reality is that one's face | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
is not a coat that we occasionally put on depending on what the weather | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
is like. It is who you are. So to ask someone to leave their faith at | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
the door, it is just not right. And we need to guard against a level of | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
intolerance that we are beginning to see in this country in relation to | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
people's face. That is interesting, isn't it? About Tim Farron, it is he | :30:25. | :30:39. | |
was the leader of the party, and he was very out of kilter with the | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
sentiment of his own party and the people he was trying to appeal to | :30:43. | :30:49. | |
buy being anti-gay. I think if you are in the Conservative Party, a lot | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
of Conservative Party members who are elder and more socially | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
conservative might well support you... He doesn't believe in gay | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
marriage. That is different from being anti-gay. I think a lot of gay | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
people would say there is no difference, there is a route | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
prejudice expressing itself in one particular way. Is there something | :31:09. | :31:14. | |
about Christianity that we feel we can take a pop at people with deep | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
religious faith? That at the moment is what we are seeing in this | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
country. I'm not saying you are doing that. But we are seeing a | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
level of intolerance that says Christianity, let's kick them into | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
touch, or kick them out of the public space, and actually, I | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
applied for this role as chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
because I actually believe that faith ought to be in the public | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
square. It is who we are. And if you look at our history and where we are | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
coming from in this country, the Christian faith contributed lots of | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
positives. And I think for us to throw it away because there are some | :31:56. | :32:02. | |
raving secularists, I think we are barking up the wrong tree. And you | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
have to be a raving secularist to say that there are bishops sitting | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
in the House of Lords... I have to stop you there. We were expecting to | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
have been joined by the DUP MP Ian Paisley Junior, but while we have | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
been on air, he has pulled out following a story about him on the | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
front of tomorrow's Daily Telegraph which alleges that he accepted | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
holidays worth ?100,000 from a country years now attempting to | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
secure a post Brexit trade deal with. | :32:39. | :32:40. | |
He's everybody's favourite Peruvian, if you don't | :32:41. | :32:41. | |
Mario Testino is the fashion photographer who's as well known | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
He's commanded the covers of the glossies as surely | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
as the women he's immortalised - fashion royalty including Kate Moss, | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
and real royalty, most notably the late Diana, | :32:52. | :32:53. | |
But Testino's new passion is a museum he's created in Lima | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
to showcase artistic talent from his homeland. | :32:59. | :32:59. | |
To help pay for it, he's selling his private art collection, | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
including works by Cindy Sherman and Wolfgang Tilmans, | :33:03. | :33:04. | |
He's been giving our culture editor Stephen Smith | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
an exclusive tour of his favourite things. | :33:10. | :33:21. | |
A view of the maestro photographer as you've never seen him before. | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
And I lived with this above my bed for a long time. | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
Of course, I am a decorator at heart, hence the | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
But the interesting thing of these photographs is that this | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
material comes from Morocco, this comes from Los Angeles, | :33:42. | :33:43. | |
this comes from Naples, this comes from Berlin, | :33:44. | :33:45. | |
And this comes from Croydon, of course. | :33:46. | :33:57. | |
I mean, we mustn't forget that Kate belongs to a new time | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
of this country as well, because I remember back | :34:04. | :34:05. | |
when I arrived, people didn't mix that much. | :34:06. | :34:07. | |
And Kate belongs to the generation of the New England. | :34:08. | :34:16. | |
Mario Testino is parting with the artworks he's collected. | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
They're going under the hammer at Sotheby's to raise money | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
for his own museum back home in Lima, which promotes | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
But in a funny way, I'm enjoying much more the museum and what I can | :34:25. | :34:35. | |
do to help my community and participate, because I'm getting | :34:36. | :34:37. | |
older, and staying with the youth is important, it's exciting. | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
And through the museum, we can expose younger | :34:41. | :34:42. | |
And I want to expand, and I want to expand | :34:43. | :34:51. | |
the education programme, I want to expand the | :34:52. | :34:53. | |
I almost want to expand it to the world. | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
Mario Testino is in demand at least as much as the supermodels | :35:01. | :35:03. | |
She looks as though she has a square meal now and again. | :35:04. | :35:11. | |
But what does Testino say about super skinny | :35:12. | :35:13. | |
We would have to change the age of the girls, | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
which I think that our business has become much more | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
I photograph women, girls last so long, you know? | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
Kate Moss, I'm still photographing her, I'm | :35:29. | :35:30. | |
The diet, the exercise, the way we are doing it has changed. | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
But then designers also would have to probably change a little bit how | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
they make their clothes, because often, you can't put them | :35:38. | :35:40. | |
It's like they don't fit if you're not of a certain size. | :35:41. | :35:49. | |
Having learned his trade and made his name in Britain, | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
Testino says he's been astonished to photograph its royal family. | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
Perhaps nobody made Harry's mother look more relaxed, | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
vivacious, then Testino, whose images of Diana | :35:59. | :35:59. | |
And I think that the love came back with those photographs, | :36:00. | :36:14. | |
because then the British people knew me, and they are, you know, | :36:15. | :36:17. | |
And the good thing is that they can never take them away. | :36:18. | :36:26. | |
I mean, I almost want to cry when I talk about it, | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
because it's emotional, you know, and I don't like to talk | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
about these things because I think I am a photographer. | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
I get asked to come and do an assignment. | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
You know, she has her children, her children have to decide everything. | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
I like to be respectful, but of course it's an amazing person | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
that I've been given to have been the one to have documented and made | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
it like the way that people remember her. | :36:54. | :37:00. | |
If you fancy yourself a budding Testino, but you can't use | :37:01. | :37:02. | |
He can't use a camera either, it turns out. | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
Useless in the kitchen, useless with cameras. | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
Even with the autofocus camera, my assistants sometimes have to take | :37:13. | :37:25. | |
the thing so that it doesn't move around from out of focus. | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
I mean, I'm like, I'm just incapable. | :37:30. | :37:31. | |
But I know when something looks good or not, and how | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
Have you tried to do quite outrageous things with your shoots | :37:35. | :37:49. | |
and have the client say, no, it's too much? | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
They're all naked, they're all on fire. | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
We're selling clothes, it's something I've heard a lot. | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
I'm often taking people's clothes off. | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
Not everybody's made well, you know, and when they are, | :38:04. | :38:09. | |
Well, we are, luckily, but not everyone is. | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
Mario Testino. Just before we go, tomorrow morning's front pages. The | :38:13. | :38:34. | |
Telegraph, the story about Ian Paisley Junior, the MP, the 100,000 | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
gift and the Brexit radio, that is Sri Lanka, Prattley, that is the | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
allegation. The Financial Times, may's Brexit strategy hit by | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
Juncker. And a picture of Prince George looking nervous before his | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
first day at school in the Times, Minister in firing line over MPs' | :38:56. | :39:03. | |
Brexit letter. And in the Daily Mail, as Huw insults the British | :39:04. | :39:05. | |
people yet again, don't treat us with contempt. | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
We leave you with good news for fans of Jurgen Otto, | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
Mr Otto's mission in life is to capture the mating dance | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
of obscure species of Australian peacock spider on film | :39:16. | :39:17. | |
Of course it's not quite as good as his masterpiece, | :39:18. | :39:24. | |
which we leave you with - the legendary Maratus Speciosus. | :39:25. | :39:26. | |
Hello. Low pressure is firmly in charge of our weather for Friday, | :39:27. | :40:22. | |
meaning a windy day for the UK competitor Thursday, and plenty of | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
showers around for parts of southern England, Wales and into East Anglia. | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
Spells of rain, | :40:30. | :40:30. |