06/09/2017 Newsnight


06/09/2017

Is Aung San Suu Kyi destroying her reputation in Burma? Plus the effect of the UK's post-Brexit immigration plan, Hurricane Irma and Eurythmics' Dave Stewart. Kirsty Wark presents.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 06/09/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Ang Sang Suu Kyi, once feted as the woman who can do no

:00:00.:00:12.

wrong on the world stage, now she's being cast as the bad guy

:00:13.:00:15.

Her office is accusing international aid workers

:00:16.:00:22.

There's talk of crimes against humanity and even

:00:23.:00:25.

We ask a human rights activist and a campaigner

:00:26.:00:29.

Hurricane Irma continues to bring havoc and death

:00:30.:00:42.

to the Caribbean, as it heads towards Cuba and Florida.

:00:43.:00:45.

We'll hear from an eye witness to the strongest

:00:46.:00:47.

And Eurythmics' Dave Stewart returns to the stage, flying solo.

:00:48.:00:55.

I think Annie and I...will be joined at the hip for ever.

:00:56.:01:03.

Yeah, I would say we definitely will.

:01:04.:01:18.

Fake news - not two words from Donald Trump,

:01:19.:01:25.

but from the famous Nobel Peace prize-winning leader of Burma,

:01:26.:01:29.

Ang Sang Suu Kyi, praised by everyone from Barack Obama

:01:30.:01:33.

She is seeking to deflect the Rohingya crisis that has so far

:01:34.:01:38.

sent almost 150,000 Rohingya Muslims fleeing

:01:39.:01:40.

Her government denies the Burmese military have laid land mines along

:01:41.:01:46.

the border between the two countries, but the BBC

:01:47.:01:48.

at least three injuries from land mines just this week.

:01:49.:01:55.

At Westminster, the Labour MP Yasmin Qureshi called the recent

:01:56.:01:58.

violence against the Rohingya a campaign of "ethnic cleansing",

:01:59.:02:01.

and she went on to condemn the international community

:02:02.:02:03.

for "effectively remaining silent as we watch another Srebrenica

:02:04.:02:07.

Ang Sang Suu Kyi insists that the crisis is being

:02:08.:02:15.

distorted by a "huge iceberg of misinformation" promoting

:02:16.:02:16.

Here's our diplomatic editor, Mark Urban.

:02:17.:02:26.

These scenes are causing a global impact.

:02:27.:02:32.

An exodus of Rohingya Muslim refugees fleeing security

:02:33.:02:37.

operations by the Armed Forces of Burma, or Myanmar.

:02:38.:02:43.

Today, the head of the UN criticised that government's offensive

:02:44.:02:47.

and urged the granting of full human rights to the Rohingya.

:02:48.:02:56.

I appeal to all - all - authorities in Myanmar,

:02:57.:02:58.

and military authorities, to indeed put an end

:02:59.:03:07.

in my opinion, is creating a situation that can

:03:08.:03:10.

And the crisis is doing nothing for the international reputation

:03:11.:03:15.

Once imprisoned and a symbol of the country's yearning

:03:16.:03:22.

for democracy, she has since 2015 been a leading member

:03:23.:03:25.

Now she is denouncing the press for reporting the Rohingya mission,

:03:26.:03:37.

making references to fake news and an "iceberg of misinformation".

:03:38.:03:43.

From her education in Britain to today's crisis, it's

:03:44.:03:45.

She kind of melded very brilliantly for a while the whole Western,

:03:46.:03:54.

British democratic politics with this kind of discourse,

:03:55.:04:00.

you had Oxford, with the Burmese Buddhism that she grew

:04:01.:04:03.

up in and with the whole independence philosophy

:04:04.:04:05.

These were very disparate things which she melded very successfully.

:04:06.:04:17.

But that is a hard mix, or fix, to maintain indefinitely,

:04:18.:04:19.

both from a psychological point of view and from a practical point

:04:20.:04:26.

of view, and unfortunately, I think that she's lost the plot.

:04:27.:04:29.

During the long years of house arrest, Aung was championed

:04:30.:04:31.

In fact I very often thought I'm quite free,

:04:32.:04:36.

I don't know why people say I'm not free.

:04:37.:04:40.

After her release five years ago, she campaigned

:04:41.:04:44.

The belief in spiritual freedom does not have to mean an indifference

:04:45.:04:53.

to the practical need for the basic rights and freedoms that

:04:54.:04:57.

are generally seen as necessary that human beings may live

:04:58.:05:00.

A basic human right which I value highly is freedom from fear.

:05:01.:05:08.

She is very much an insider, her father having founded

:05:09.:05:14.

modern Burma and belonged to its military elite.

:05:15.:05:19.

And in the current confrontation between the army and the Muslim

:05:20.:05:22.

minority, she stands against militancy and

:05:23.:05:25.

Well, I'm upset that she hasn't abided by her own

:05:26.:05:33.

which made her such a great person, the values which are important.

:05:34.:05:40.

She's there, she's queen bee, she's got the power,

:05:41.:05:42.

she's got the following, she's where she wants to be.

:05:43.:05:45.

She's not particularly bothered, as far as I can tell,

:05:46.:05:47.

about what the outside world thinks any more.

:05:48.:05:52.

With the campaign against the Rohingyas still underway,

:05:53.:06:00.

the Burmese Government is taking a defiant line -

:06:01.:06:02.

consequences of the operation have caused some at least to think again

:06:03.:06:06.

Akshaya Kumar is the deputy United Nations director

:06:07.:06:09.

at Human Rights Watch, and she joins us from New York.

:06:10.:06:20.

Good evening to you. First of all, can you describe what you think is

:06:21.:06:28.

the plight of the Rohingya people just now? What our researchers have

:06:29.:06:31.

been able to find is incredibly disturbing. We know that almost

:06:32.:06:37.

150,000 people have been forced to flee for their lives across a

:06:38.:06:42.

dangerous river into Bangladesh. Many are hungry and tired and many

:06:43.:06:44.

are reporting that they've lost their family members in attacks by

:06:45.:06:50.

the military, by security forces. They feel persecuted and this

:06:51.:06:55.

doesn't come just from this incident but also from the systematic

:06:56.:06:59.

discrimination that this community faces for so many years inside

:07:00.:07:06.

Myanmar. You will have heard today that this has been called fake news

:07:07.:07:12.

by Ang Sang Suu Kyi? That's right. She says we are dealing with a

:07:13.:07:18.

terrorist threat, and I have to say that yes, there have been some

:07:19.:07:22.

pieces of misinformation, some photos circulated from other

:07:23.:07:26.

conflicts which are purported to come from the crisis. With what

:07:27.:07:31.

we've found independently, through our own satellite imagery analysis,

:07:32.:07:37.

is that over 20 front unique locations in the northern part of

:07:38.:07:49.

Rakhine state have been eliminated - not all of this can be dismissed as

:07:50.:08:00.

fake news. What power do you think Ang Sang Suu Kyi has to stop this?

:08:01.:08:09.

Well, in some ways, Burma's government is now split between the

:08:10.:08:12.

military and the civilian side, but what Ang Sang Suu Kyi has is quite

:08:13.:08:19.

unique because she is a Nobel peace laureate, is the power of her voice,

:08:20.:08:23.

her conviction and the power to stand up for all people within the

:08:24.:08:28.

country, including the much maligned and attacked Rohingya community, and

:08:29.:08:35.

today she just hasn't done that. In the lectures for the BBC she talked

:08:36.:08:41.

about basic human rights for all - now, was that just for public

:08:42.:08:44.

consumption or do you really believe that she is equivocating over this

:08:45.:08:52.

or that she genuinely believes? Does she believe the range or do not have

:08:53.:08:58.

the same human rights? It is hard to know what's actually motivating her

:08:59.:09:03.

at this point in time. There could be some political calculations. She

:09:04.:09:06.

is at the end of the day an elected politician. But her words, the

:09:07.:09:12.

words, they stand for themselves. She has spoken out for human rights

:09:13.:09:16.

for all people, whether baby citizens or not. So, any of this

:09:17.:09:22.

domestic rhetoric that says these people do not belong here should not

:09:23.:09:25.

matter, because they don't deserve to be killed and persecuted and

:09:26.:09:31.

driven from their homes by rapes or killings by the military. Finally,

:09:32.:09:37.

do you think there is something the Nobel peace committee should do,

:09:38.:09:41.

there is talk of rescinding her prize which they say they can't do,

:09:42.:09:45.

but should there be some censure? The prize itself is irrevocable but

:09:46.:09:50.

it does stand for some principles. We've already seen a few Nobel

:09:51.:09:55.

laureates reach out and asking Ang Sang Suu Kyi to do the right thing

:09:56.:09:59.

and to stand up. Many more of these laureates can do that and we can

:10:00.:10:03.

only hope that their voices will prevail on her to take the right

:10:04.:10:08.

decision to cooperate with the UN and to stop obstructing the delivery

:10:09.:10:11.

of aid and to allow independent human rights investigators in to

:10:12.:10:15.

determine what is the truth and what is fake news.

:10:16.:10:17.

Labour MP Rushanara Ali is the chair of the all-party

:10:18.:10:19.

Good evening. Do you think that she was massively lauded by Barack

:10:20.:10:33.

Obama, Angela Merkel, the BBC lecture, she opened your party's

:10:34.:10:36.

headquarters - was it a huge miscalculations? I don't think it

:10:37.:10:41.

was a miscalculation. I think the international community rightly

:10:42.:10:46.

agonised her sacrifice and her fight for democracy in her country. And

:10:47.:10:50.

that was the right thing to do. But I think what we failed to do is to

:10:51.:10:57.

recognise that the transition to democracy was not going to be a

:10:58.:11:04.

smooth one, and one of the things that I and many other

:11:05.:11:07.

parliamentarians, one of the challenges which we expressed would

:11:08.:11:10.

continue, was that if we remove sanctions very rapidly, we would

:11:11.:11:17.

lose the leverage to influence the government, which even with

:11:18.:11:23.

democratic transition, it is an in perfect democracy, 25% of

:11:24.:11:25.

parliamentarians are still from the ruling military, who control defence

:11:26.:11:30.

and security and much else, they hold the balance of power

:11:31.:11:35.

ultimately. Maybe there was a missed cut elation. We heard her

:11:36.:11:38.

biographers say that she was very much steeped in the military, she

:11:39.:11:43.

was part of the whole state idea and perhaps she was pulling the wool

:11:44.:11:46.

over our eyes? I wouldn't say that but I think that sometimes, because

:11:47.:11:55.

of her persona, because of her campaign and being under house

:11:56.:11:59.

arrest, many of us, I did and many of us... Were beguiled? Looked to

:12:00.:12:07.

her as a symbol. And it's been deeply disappointing that she has

:12:08.:12:10.

not stood up for the rights of the minority is, particularly the

:12:11.:12:16.

Rohingya. I visited Burma in 2012 after the attacks on Rohingya

:12:17.:12:19.

Muslims, where over 100,000 were displaced, and subsequently, they

:12:20.:12:25.

don't recognise the Rohingya, they don't recognise the disappeared

:12:26.:12:31.

ones. Exactly, she consistently accused... She was never clear about

:12:32.:12:36.

the Rohingya comma she always equivocated about the Rohingya. Yes,

:12:37.:12:41.

and many yes. Terrines in this country and in other countries

:12:42.:12:45.

raised alarm bells about that. -- and many parliamentarians. So what

:12:46.:12:51.

happens? Your colleague has talked about the ghost of Srebrenica, the

:12:52.:13:01.

ghost of Rwanda - can anyone stop her? Well, it's not just Ang Sang

:13:02.:13:07.

Suu Kyi, it's the military, it's the military who is dictating what is

:13:08.:13:10.

happening and it is convenient for them that much of the attention is

:13:11.:13:15.

on her, understandably. Except that if she is queen bee, she could exert

:13:16.:13:19.

more power? She should use her voice, that's true, and she hasn't,

:13:20.:13:24.

and that's deeply disappointing. But what we really need to do urgently

:13:25.:13:28.

is to apply serious pressure through the international media and the

:13:29.:13:31.

international community and the United Nations on the military,

:13:32.:13:36.

because they are prosecuting these murders, they have killed thousands

:13:37.:13:39.

and thousands of people, half a million people have been displaced

:13:40.:13:43.

and art in refugee camps in Chittagong in Bangladesh. Thousands

:13:44.:13:47.

of people have been displaced. This remark about fake news is shocking.

:13:48.:13:54.

But the focus has got to be on holding the military rulers to

:13:55.:13:57.

account, because they're still calling the shots. However, who are

:13:58.:14:03.

the ones to put Russia on Burma? I wonder if there is the possibility

:14:04.:14:09.

that all of those people, Angela Merkel, Barack Obama, should be

:14:10.:14:11.

shaming her into standing up to the military? What I would say is that

:14:12.:14:16.

she needs to stand up to the military, but the international

:14:17.:14:18.

community and Western leaders need to stand up to Burma's military. The

:14:19.:14:25.

United Kingdom, I coordinated a letter to Boris Johnson last year

:14:26.:14:29.

after the last episode of violence that resulted in thousands of people

:14:30.:14:32.

being killed and displaced and we got a response from a junior

:14:33.:14:36.

minister. This time he took a good few days before he made a statement,

:14:37.:14:41.

which was pretty tame, frankly. And we are still providing military

:14:42.:14:45.

training, spending hundreds of thousands of pounds, and those

:14:46.:14:51.

issues need to be reviewed. It's questionable whether that kind of

:14:52.:14:56.

effort is actually going to work, because it's not so far, the

:14:57.:15:00.

military are doing nothing but causing greater harm and prosecuting

:15:01.:15:06.

murder. Do you think that now and forever more, Ang Sang Suu Kyi's

:15:07.:15:08.

reputation is tainted? Absolutely, but the reputation of the country

:15:09.:15:15.

overall is tainted. We've got to exact rate pressure both on her and

:15:16.:15:18.

on the military. Thank you for joining us.

:15:19.:15:21.

It's been just 24 hours since the Home Office plans

:15:22.:15:23.

for immigration post-Brexit were leaked by the Guardian.

:15:24.:15:25.

Under the draft plan, firms would have to recruit locally

:15:26.:15:28.

unless they could prove an "economic need" to employ EU citizens.

:15:29.:15:32.

Now, we must emphasise that the Government has said these

:15:33.:15:41.

plans are just a draft, and since it was put together,

:15:42.:15:43.

there have been six more versions of the plan.

:15:44.:15:46.

Still, firms that rely on EU workers have warned of the "catastrophic"

:15:47.:15:49.

impact of the proposals and the "massive disruption"

:15:50.:15:50.

David Grossman has been taking a look.

:15:51.:15:55.

How many copies, Hauman experiments and how much fruit did EU migrants

:15:56.:16:02.

provide Britain with today? The Brexit folk show that for many, the

:16:03.:16:06.

rate and scale of EU migration has been too great -- Brexit vote. How

:16:07.:16:13.

to cut it without damaging the economy is a difficult balancing

:16:14.:16:17.

act. Thanks to a leak in a policy document, we have clues now as to

:16:18.:16:22.

what Whitehawk is thinking. It is only a draft so I suspect it will go

:16:23.:16:26.

to a few changes but it is broadly on the right lines. It is to be

:16:27.:16:30.

welcomed, if implemented as proposed, and we would see a

:16:31.:16:36.

considerable significant reduction in the numbers coming from the EU

:16:37.:16:40.

which is what people broadly voted for a year ago. According to the

:16:41.:16:46.

document, the unrestricted flows of EU migrants will come to an end. In

:16:47.:16:50.

the future they will blow builder to allowing only those who make a

:16:51.:16:56.

valuable contribution -- they will be filtered. That will be on skills

:16:57.:17:01.

and salary and social impact. To be considered valuable to the country

:17:02.:17:05.

as a whole it says that immigration should benefit not just the migrants

:17:06.:17:09.

themselves but also make extinct residents better off. -- existing

:17:10.:17:15.

residents. The government says it will not comment on the substance of

:17:16.:17:19.

the league. We are told this is an old draft, but Theresa May was clear

:17:20.:17:25.

today that post Brexit much will have to change. We continue to

:17:26.:17:30.

believe that it is important to have net migration at sustainable levels,

:17:31.:17:34.

the tens of thousands, because of the impact particularly it has on

:17:35.:17:37.

people at the lower end of the income scale in depressing wages.

:17:38.:17:43.

But some economists say there is little evidence that EU migrants

:17:44.:17:48.

suppressed wages. Britain needs overseas workers because

:17:49.:17:52.

unemployment is low and there is no obvious alternative to the workers,

:17:53.:17:56.

they say. The employers we have spoken to have talked about

:17:57.:18:00.

targeting former offenders, women going back to the labour market

:18:01.:18:04.

after a period out of work, always talking about school leavers. They

:18:05.:18:09.

are desperately trying to tap into those sources of labour but the fact

:18:10.:18:13.

is that those sectors have always employed migrants and always been an

:18:14.:18:16.

attractive to British workers said it is hard to see how any group or

:18:17.:18:22.

even set of groups is going to meet employers need if there was a

:18:23.:18:27.

reduction in EU migration. Workers would, according to the document, be

:18:28.:18:31.

treated differently based on their level of skill. Higher skilled

:18:32.:18:34.

workers would have the chance to come to the UK for three to five

:18:35.:18:38.

years while lower skilled workers would just have to years residency

:18:39.:18:43.

and rights to bring family and this could be restricted. Employers who

:18:44.:18:46.

still had to recruit low skilled workers from abroad might have been

:18:47.:18:50.

paid a skilled tax to help train UK workers. The implication is that

:18:51.:18:57.

employers might have just pay a bit more to attract UK workers. None of

:18:58.:19:02.

our research suggests that the reason we can't get workers is

:19:03.:19:05.

because of pay, there are cultural issues white UK workers do not want

:19:06.:19:09.

to do these jobs. We can work on that. There might be scope in the

:19:10.:19:14.

future for looking at automation and technology at an answer to replacing

:19:15.:19:17.

some of these jobs but the facts on the ground are that overseas workers

:19:18.:19:23.

currently primarily from the EU make up a lot of these jobs. Agriculture

:19:24.:19:30.

and horticulture rely on them at the moment. Even in high skilled sectors

:19:31.:19:35.

like sound and research which would supposedly be favoured in the new

:19:36.:19:40.

system, there is concern. Our scientific workforce in the UK is

:19:41.:19:43.

made up of a wide range of people from all over the world and a wide

:19:44.:19:49.

spectrum of different talents and skills, from the technicians and

:19:50.:19:52.

from the early career researchers right through to professors and

:19:53.:20:01.

CEOs. The risk of putting salary and other criteria like qualifications

:20:02.:20:05.

on a migration system is that you may inadvertently cut out access to

:20:06.:20:09.

the UK from some of those people. You could have a Ph.D. In science

:20:10.:20:14.

and be extremely expert in your field and not meet the current

:20:15.:20:18.

salary threshold for migrants from outside the EU which is around

:20:19.:20:26.

?21,000 a year. Immigration is where two Brexit realities collide, want

:20:27.:20:30.

economic and one political. Picking its way through this is one of the

:20:31.:20:33.

most significant challenges faced by the government.

:20:34.:20:34.

Our political editor, Nick Watt, is here.

:20:35.:20:39.

This has caused quite a reaction. London method of Khan said it would

:20:40.:20:46.

strangle the London clinic and Nicky Morgan said she was concerned about

:20:47.:20:53.

it. The significance of this if it is the first definitive account of

:20:54.:20:56.

how the UK will seek to control immigration when we have left the EU

:20:57.:21:01.

and as David was saying, it will be a relatively benign system for

:21:02.:21:06.

higher skilled workers but there will be more restrictions for low

:21:07.:21:09.

skilled workers. It was interesting to date, Jeremy Corbyn was silent on

:21:10.:21:14.

this. I spoke to a number of pro-European Tories and one

:21:15.:21:19.

pro-European cabinet member said that they hope that when people look

:21:20.:21:23.

at this they will seek that it is not that bad, quite soft, and it

:21:24.:21:29.

seeks to answer the dilemma. How do you take back control of immigration

:21:30.:21:33.

and bring the numbers down but do it in a way that does not harm the

:21:34.:21:38.

economy? One thing I have learned this evening, an idea from this

:21:39.:21:42.

draft that has been absolutely rejected is that in the transition

:21:43.:21:45.

period immediately after we leave the EU there is an idea for EU

:21:46.:21:49.

citizens who want to stay in the UK for a little longer would have to

:21:50.:21:54.

give their fingerprints. I spoke to a senior cabinet member who said

:21:55.:22:00.

absolutely no way, that is out. What about the idea of transitional

:22:01.:22:05.

arrangements? What does this tell us? Overlooked in this document is

:22:06.:22:12.

the most detailed account of how the government will deal and manage with

:22:13.:22:15.

this transitional period which is officially known as the

:22:16.:22:19.

implementation phase. Ministers are been quite cagey about saying how

:22:20.:22:23.

much it'll last. In this document it says it will last for at least two

:22:24.:22:29.

years and, on the rules for migration in that transition period,

:22:30.:22:35.

they hug the rules on EU free movement very closely. If talks

:22:36.:22:38.

about how you would have to register, that is consistent with EU

:22:39.:22:43.

law and in fact that is the rule that applies in Germany. It is

:22:44.:22:47.

interesting, there is a Cabinet committee that oversees this

:22:48.:22:50.

negotiation, six members, and they recently agreed there should be this

:22:51.:22:54.

transition which is following on from the intimidation phase outlined

:22:55.:22:58.

in Theresa May's Lancaster House speech. They did not agree the

:22:59.:23:01.

timing but what I have learned is that Boris Johnson is pushing back

:23:02.:23:07.

and he is saying, make sure this last no longer than one year. That

:23:08.:23:11.

is not what is in this document. State but because I will come back

:23:12.:23:12.

to you. -- stay put. Well, one of the key sectors

:23:13.:23:16.

that could be affected by these leaked proposals

:23:17.:23:18.

is hospitality and tourism. 4.6 million people

:23:19.:23:20.

work in the industry, an estimated 700,000

:23:21.:23:22.

of which are from Joining me now is Ufi Ibrahim,

:23:23.:23:23.

the chief executive of the British Hospitality

:23:24.:23:27.

Association. Good evening. I know that the

:23:28.:23:34.

hospitality industry has been kicking up today but you would say

:23:35.:23:39.

that because, in a sense, a lot of what you do survives on cheap labour

:23:40.:23:43.

and a lot of European nationals are prepared to come and work for the

:23:44.:23:47.

lowest wages within the law. The Prime Minister talked today about

:23:48.:23:52.

depressing wages by employing EU nationals but there is no evidence

:23:53.:23:57.

to support that and in fact the evidence suggests otherwise. The

:23:58.:24:01.

truth is that in the United Kingdom at the moment we have the lowest

:24:02.:24:05.

level of unemployment that we have had for the past 40 years. Any

:24:06.:24:10.

further southern or material change to the supply of labour to the UK

:24:11.:24:15.

workforce would be significantly damaging for an industry that

:24:16.:24:20.

already find it very difficult to find people to actually employed

:24:21.:24:24.

here in the workforce. Perhaps it is because the conditions are not

:24:25.:24:27.

attractive enough in that there is not enough support and training and

:24:28.:24:31.

I would put it that perhaps the hospitality industry has been quite

:24:32.:24:34.

lazy because they're rather half a million unemployed between 18 and

:24:35.:24:41.

24, and actually you could encourage them more through colleges and

:24:42.:24:45.

on-the-job training but it is easier to pick up an incredibly

:24:46.:24:50.

enthusiastic person from Europe who speaks three languages and is

:24:51.:24:54.

prepared to work long hours and for low pay. At an industry we reject

:24:55.:24:59.

the argument that the British individual is not attractive to work

:25:00.:25:03.

in our industry. What are you doing to attract them? Our industry

:25:04.:25:08.

employs 3.2 million people directly in the UK, 700,000 of which are EU

:25:09.:25:15.

nationals. 75% of waiters are from outside the UK. Going back to the

:25:16.:25:20.

original question, in our industry we have serious numbers of people

:25:21.:25:24.

who started out at the entry level and have made it to being the senior

:25:25.:25:28.

executives in the business and in fact two thirds of all senior level

:25:29.:25:33.

executives in the industry started with very little qualifications and

:25:34.:25:36.

experience and started at that low level which proves the point that

:25:37.:25:40.

the industry is actually one of the great meritocracy is of the UK. Huge

:25:41.:25:45.

training possibilities and development possibilities. That is

:25:46.:25:51.

the opposite to one of the contributors of the film who said

:25:52.:25:55.

they found it hard to attract UK born people do these jobs. It

:25:56.:25:59.

suggests that with a bit more effort you could employ British people in

:26:00.:26:05.

British jobs as it were. I think the reality is that all businesses

:26:06.:26:09.

including the hospitality industry have come to rely on the strategic

:26:10.:26:14.

advantage of being able to have an EU workforce. That is an absolute

:26:15.:26:19.

reality. But it is also... The experience of most people I would

:26:20.:26:22.

suggest is that those workers are extremely good. But the point is

:26:23.:26:27.

that has allowed you to sit back and say, we are not going to do as much

:26:28.:26:33.

as we could. You are talking about taking ten years as it were to fill

:26:34.:26:38.

the gap but you have known since last June, this has been

:26:39.:26:42.

accelerating what you do to attract local workforce. For the past three

:26:43.:26:45.

years we have been the only industry in the UK is leading campaigns like

:26:46.:26:51.

the big conversation which have created 67,000 new career starts for

:26:52.:26:55.

British youngsters under 25 also Berra very few industries in the UK

:26:56.:27:00.

that have gone the extra mile to be able to attract those sort of

:27:01.:27:04.

individuals -- there are very few. But the point is that in the UK

:27:05.:27:09.

there is a fundamental issue around vocational education will stop

:27:10.:27:12.

government cannot push the whole burden of the private sector, they

:27:13.:27:16.

must accept responsibility... What do you want the government to do to

:27:17.:27:19.

change the way that kind of education is delivered? At the

:27:20.:27:24.

centre is launching any proposal for immigration policy, the UK

:27:25.:27:28.

Government must ensure that they consider a holistic mix of policies

:27:29.:27:32.

that will be required to ensure that industries like ours will not be

:27:33.:27:36.

harmed and that includes educational policy. The Department for Education

:27:37.:27:40.

must come forward and propose ways in which they will promote

:27:41.:27:43.

vocational education and I want to give you an example of something

:27:44.:27:46.

which we are very concerned about. We were dismayed when the levels

:27:47.:27:50.

were announced and the government said they were postponing the

:27:51.:27:59.

introduction of T-levels in the UK, the equivalent to a levels in

:28:00.:28:05.

vocational education, to prepare an industry like ours and that has been

:28:06.:28:10.

postponed to 2090 and furthermore they have said our industry will not

:28:11.:28:15.

be integrated into the T-levels in the first round. -- 2019. How was it

:28:16.:28:20.

possible that the government that is serious about making Brexit success

:28:21.:28:24.

is not willing to provide the whole mix of policies that industries like

:28:25.:28:27.

ours need to do that? Thank you for joining us.

:28:28.:28:28.

What is good to happen with the EU withdrawal bill tomorrow? -- going

:28:29.:28:39.

to happen. It is highly likely it will get a second reading, Labour

:28:40.:28:42.

will vote against it but the pro-Europeans in the Tories are

:28:43.:28:45.

keeping their powder dry for when the bill is considered at committee

:28:46.:28:50.

stage after the conference season in October. Interestingly it had been

:28:51.:28:54.

assumed that might be the high noon moment when they try to amend the

:28:55.:28:59.

bill to but the single market element in there. They are not going

:29:00.:29:02.

to do that, they are going to concentrate on one key area, what

:29:03.:29:06.

they regard as a power grab by the government. When all this EU law is

:29:07.:29:10.

brought on to the UK Statute book, when there are thousands of delusion

:29:11.:29:13.

that might need to be taped as they will be done through the so-called

:29:14.:29:17.

Henry VIII clauses, ie by ministers without a debate in Parliament and

:29:18.:29:22.

they will focus on that. Tory whips are reasonably confident they should

:29:23.:29:26.

survive this and it will go through in October. Thank you.

:29:27.:29:28.

There has not been a storm like it for three decades.

:29:29.:29:30.

Hurricane Irma is making its treacherous way,

:29:31.:29:32.

with winds of 185mph and gusts of 220mph

:29:33.:29:34.

battering the Caribbean islands, heading to Puerto Rico,

:29:35.:29:39.

Haiti and onto Cuba and Florida, where storm surges could be 11ft.

:29:40.:29:42.

Earlier this evening, we managed to get through to Rupert Passat,

:29:43.:29:45.

who is holed up with his family in the capital

:29:46.:29:47.

We had a great view of the main harbour at Road Town on Tortola.

:29:48.:30:14.

What does it look like when you can see out?

:30:15.:30:16.

Well now we are actually still partially in the storm.

:30:17.:30:19.

Where they keep all the catamarans and what have you, it is all smashed

:30:20.:30:28.

and they're all piled on top of each other.

:30:29.:30:30.

Because the eye of the hurricane has come straight through Road Town

:30:31.:30:37.

harbour, so we got the first half, so to speak, of the hurricane.

:30:38.:30:40.

And we didn't really know what to expect.

:30:41.:30:45.

We were jumping from one room to another.

:30:46.:30:47.

We set up in one of the bathrooms and heard lots of noises,

:30:48.:30:57.

water started coming through the ceilings, so we vacated

:30:58.:31:00.

that room and went into the living room and we ended up

:31:01.:31:03.

What were the authorities telling you to do?

:31:04.:31:07.

There's been plenty of advice and warnings.

:31:08.:31:15.

There's the Department of Disaster Management which has

:31:16.:31:17.

been texting and e-mailing everyone, just to make sure that

:31:18.:31:20.

I mean it was crazy, it was total mayhem.

:31:21.:31:28.

What was it like when you were actually in the bathroom

:31:29.:31:30.

with the children and you could hear it battering?

:31:31.:31:32.

At the beginning, we were just sort of, not casual about it but just

:31:33.:31:43.

not really expecting what was going to happen.

:31:44.:31:46.

Now we can see what's happened, all the trees have gone.

:31:47.:31:55.

As I say, all the boats are all smashed up.

:31:56.:31:58.

We had at least five days to plan for this.

:31:59.:32:15.

Obviously, we got plenty of water, provisions, the odd drop of red

:32:16.:32:19.

wine and managed to get a bottle of Glenfiddich.

:32:20.:32:28.

But it's actually been so serious that we haven't really had a chance

:32:29.:32:32.

If you don't mind me saying, Rupert, you do sound quite traumatised.

:32:33.:32:37.

I am, yeah, stressful, very stressful experience.

:32:38.:32:42.

It's hard to understand or to know how they're going to clear this up.

:32:43.:32:46.

And are you managing to keep in touch with friends roundabout?

:32:47.:32:57.

I must say, I must say, the one thing that we've been able

:32:58.:33:00.

And what do you think happens next for you and the family?

:33:01.:33:09.

Well, I think, if I just take a breath, I think

:33:10.:33:13.

the next few days here and obviously regroup,

:33:14.:33:22.

the is plenty of water that has come into the apartment.

:33:23.:33:27.

By the looks of it, as we look down on to the capital

:33:28.:33:31.

I just don't know where to start with this.

:33:32.:33:36.

I think they're going to need external help to be honest.

:33:37.:33:39.

I've never seen such devastation to be honest.

:33:40.:33:45.

There are 50ft catamarans in the bay that have been turned over.

:33:46.:33:49.

I'm very relieved, even though the storm is still here and it's

:33:50.:34:03.

still hammering down, but we feel that we've seen the worst

:34:04.:34:06.

We go to great lengths on Newsnight to bring

:34:07.:34:10.

but occasionally, we reluctantly cede a bit of airtime to

:34:11.:34:14.

Tonight we bring you an exclusive jam and interview with one-time

:34:15.:34:25.

and a hugely successful songwriter and producer.

:34:26.:34:31.

One of his early LP covers listed Edward de Bono,

:34:32.:34:33.

the father of lateral thinking, among the credits.

:34:34.:34:35.

And Stewart's own thoughts have been sought out by such movers

:34:36.:34:38.

and shakers as Charles Saatchi, Richard Branson

:34:39.:34:39.

On the eve of some rare concert dates in the UK

:34:40.:34:43.

to mark his 65th birthday, Dave Stewart has been talking

:34:44.:34:46.

I very rarely have played live in England.

:34:47.:34:55.

And I'm going to the Sunderland Empire and playing live,

:34:56.:34:57.

where I've never played since I was about 16 or 17.

:34:58.:35:00.

So, that is obviously going to be pretty emotional for me.

:35:01.:35:04.

# Falling on my head like a new emotion...

:35:05.:35:18.

When you're an ultimate rock insider like Dave Stewart,

:35:19.:35:22.

you can fly over the best session musicians from the States

:35:23.:35:25.

for your homecoming gigs and rehearse them in a huge studio

:35:26.:35:29.

in the basement of a London hotel which you just

:35:30.:35:33.

Stewart has come a long way from the early days

:35:34.:36:03.

of The Eurythmics, when a lack of funds led to inspired

:36:04.:36:06.

Annie and I, in a boardroom with, like, gold albums...

:36:07.:36:15.

Sort of juxtapose it and inject some kind of, you know, flip it.

:36:16.:36:21.

A cow comes walking in the boardroom, like a huge cow,

:36:22.:36:24.

which is very difficult to get the cow to do this.

:36:25.:36:28.

Because you couldn't sort of key it in in those days.

:36:29.:36:31.

Cow, yeah, wandering around and Annie was

:36:32.:36:37.

We didn't want to do anything that had anything to do

:36:38.:36:45.

And they put it on in MTV in America and it just exploded

:36:46.:36:58.

at the same time as the single was going up the charts.

:36:59.:37:01.

And this video was just on like every bloody 15

:37:02.:37:10.

minutes or something, so Annie and I arrived

:37:11.:37:14.

and it was like being a newscaster or something when you're on every

:37:15.:37:18.

night but you're on like 20 times a day.

:37:19.:37:20.

I'm sure many of our viewers who have fond memories

:37:21.:37:28.

of The Eurythmics would wonder, is it possible you will do

:37:29.:37:30.

something together, an album, a short tour, what do you think?

:37:31.:37:37.

I think Annie and I will be joined at the hip for ever.

:37:38.:37:45.

# Who's that girl running around with you

:37:46.:37:52.

We're bound to do something, and in what shape or form it

:37:53.:37:55.

But yeah, I would say we definitely will.

:37:56.:38:04.

Stewart has written for and collaborated with everyone

:38:05.:38:06.

# There's nothing wrong with you I can't fix #.

:38:07.:38:18.

And his original way of thinking has been sought out

:38:19.:38:20.

Listen, Nelson Mandela wants to talk to you on the phone.

:38:21.:38:28.

And there was a speakerphone and it was like...

:38:29.:38:33.

Like nerve-racking, and he came on the phone and he was very funny.

:38:34.:38:36.

And then he was talking about, you know, he wanted to turn the most

:38:37.:38:51.

negative number in his life of 30 odd years, a prison number,

:38:52.:38:54.

he was only called by 46664, he wanted to turn it

:38:55.:38:57.

And I said, what about making it a telephone number?

:38:58.:39:02.

And then Nelson Mandela himself made the message when you rang it,

:39:03.:39:05.

"Hello, this is Nelson Mandela" and blah blah.

:39:06.:39:08.

And the longer they stayed on the phone, the more

:39:09.:39:15.

they were donating to launch, you know, the foundation.

:39:16.:39:20.

Is there any truth in the story that you once entertained the notion that

:39:21.:39:33.

dogs might be able to talk, and you could investigate that

:39:34.:39:36.

I once had the notion that hairless cats could possibly talk and be very

:39:37.:39:46.

I didn't get too far with it, no, because when I announced this idea

:39:47.:39:57.

at a press conference with Annie in Australia, I just

:39:58.:40:02.

was talking about it and then we arrived in New Zealand

:40:03.:40:05.

and the Hairless Cat Society turned up to meet me.

:40:06.:40:11.

No, they weren't keen, they thought I was, you know,

:40:12.:40:17.

kind of taking the Mickey out of them.

:40:18.:40:19.

And if you fancy catching Dave Stewart live, he's

:40:20.:40:25.

at the Shepherd's Bush Empire on Friday and

:40:26.:40:27.

Before we go, another reminder of Hurricane Irma,

:40:28.:40:34.

the worst Atlantic storm in nearly four decades, still

:40:35.:40:36.

heading towards Cuba, the Bahamas and Florida.

:40:37.:40:39.

Terrifying and destructive as it is, though, some Caribbean

:40:40.:40:42.

islanders are apparently determined to keep calm and carry on.

:40:43.:40:46.