05/09/2017 Newsnight


05/09/2017

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.


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Tonight on Newsnight, we look at the way the authorities

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investigate suspected cases of female genital mutilation.

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And we meet families who sometimes wait for months to be cleared

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We'll ask one campaigner, herself a survivor of this barbaric

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practice, why the wait can be so long, and what can be done

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We'll meet Helen and her 12-year-old daughter Lulya, who escaped

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the inferno on the 21st floor of the Grenfell Tower,

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speaking for the first time about the night,

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and their search for new accommodation.

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We came from the 21st floor, all the way down, my daughter,

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she was stuck on the tenth floor and she was in a coma for ten days,

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It's back to school for MPs, after a long summer

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All the talk of course is about Brexit.

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Nobody has ever pretended that this would be simple or easy.

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I've always said this negotiation would be tough...

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Tough, complex and at times confrontational.

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We'll get the latest from Nick Watt and Chris Cook.

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And get a first sight of a dramatic new report, in which the likes

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of the Archbishop of Canterbury and a whole series of

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heavy-hitting thinkers say "our economic model is broken".

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And hot on the heels of Hurricane Harvey,

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which devastated Texas, another massive storm

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This is what it looks like from the weather satellites.

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We'll ask how bad Hurricane Irma might be, and what parts of

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the Caribbean and the United States are most at risk.

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The distress of the former residents of Grenfell Tower

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will never be erased, but it seems that for some

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their subsequent treatment is only adding to their trauma.

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Three months on, just ten families have accepted offers

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164 more have engaged with a council system to find them homes -

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but there appear to be at least two problems, the suitability

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of the accommodation, and the way the council decides

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Newsnight has been speaking to Helen and her 12-year-old

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They escaped from their flat on the 21st floor and Lulya

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spent ten days in a coma following the fire,

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This is the first time they have spoken publicly about what happened.

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And a warning - this film by our producer Sara Moralioglu

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and special correspondent Katie Razzall contains content

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I was sleeping and my mum, she got up, she saw the whole house,

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the kitchen was on fire, so she grabbed me and she told me

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to get the dog, so I got the dog and I ran out.

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On their way to see what could become their new home,

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beauty salon owner Helen and her daughter Lulya lived

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They had a terrifying escape with neighbours, three hours

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This is the first time they've spoken publicly about their ordeal.

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I just looked up, at the window, there was a fire, I saw the fire

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coming, so I just ran, and I grabbed my daughter.

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Helen and Lulya are talking to us now because they and so many others

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face yet another battle - for a new home.

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A battle that can end up pitting resident against resident.

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The plan is to rehouse some Grenfell tenants in what is termed affordable

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Helen and Lulya thought they were going to visit a lower

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floor flat, only to find out it had been given to someone else.

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Instead they were shown one far higher up, on the tenth floor.

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When you see the full windows and the height, that is

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My mum likes them, the rooms and everything are OK,

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but it's not what I think they should be showing us,

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I never used to have any type of problem with anything,

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but now I'm getting anxious whenever I see any tall

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The council has opened a website to match Grenfell

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Flats are being offered under a four band priority system.

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Helen believes that is divisive at a time when the tower's

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former tenants still feel traumatised and vulnerable.

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We are the ones, we came from the 21st floor,

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all the way down, my daughter, she was stuck on the tenth floor

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and she was in a coma for ten days, so how come I am not priority?

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Does she have to be dead for them to prioritise me?

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In fact, it's not fair what they're doing it's not fair.

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Kensington and Chelsea Council say this is a matching rather

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Those who lost a family member are number one priority,

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then comes anyone with a disability, then those with dependents and then

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Grenfell residents and evacuated residents of nearby Grenfell Walk.

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None of the flats in Grenfell Tower had a balcony.

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After their horrific experience, Helen and Lulya are adamant

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The flat they were initially shown didn't.

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The fact that the fire was coming from the outside and the fire

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was on the kitchen wall, so if you have a balcony,

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you could step out and you would have a bigger chance

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of being rescued, so they could bring anything to come and save you.

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Hear their story, and you understand their logic.

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We tried to come out three times, but then,

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we had to go out the fourth, because the bedrooms

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Smoke had long ago entered Grenfell Tower's only stairwell.

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While I was going down, all the smoke, it was really thick,

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so it's like thick air going into you,

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I can hear everyone trying to find air,

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like everyone screaming, choking, gagging, then

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I trip over someone, someone lying on the floor,

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which is the worst part of everything.

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So, I'm squeezing my dog so much and my dog is trying to reach up

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to me and I roll down the stairs with my dog.

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I roll down like another ten sets of stairs and...

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And then I passed out and then I let go of my dog because I couldn't

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After I'd passed out and I dropped him, he went back

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up to the 21st floor, which is the floor that we lived

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Lily, the other dog, they found them both together.

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Lulya spent ten days in an induced coma undergoing treatment

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Like, you don't know what's happening.

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You're sleeping, you feel relaxed, but in a coma, you feel everything.

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Neither Lulya nor Helen will ever forget their experience.

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I'm saying to myself, you know, it's just a bad dream.

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Helen and Lulya have now seen two flats that they'e keen on.

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They're still waiting to find out if either

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She really liked the third floor, so let's hope they can do something

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Because we've been let down and I hope they're not

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Helen and daughter Lulya talking to Katie Razzle.

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In a statement, Kensington and Chelsea Council deputy leader

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Kim Taylor-Smith told us the council had prioritised bereaved families

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and made accommodation offers to them all.

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He added that the council had secured more than 100 homes

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to resettle people and said the housing team was working hard

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No one - David Davis observed today of Brexit negotiations -

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ever pretended this would be simple or easy.

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The Brexit Secretary came before the Commons with a concrete example

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of something he HAD managed to agree with the EU negotiator this week -

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continued use of the European-wide health insurance card for those

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Britons living in the EU when this country leaves the bloc.

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It's a step that will reassure many older retirees outside of Britain -

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although we don't yet know if the same priveleges will apply

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to tourists and visitors as they do at present.

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The chance to dwell on this was shortlived, however.

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This evening, the Guardian splashed on a leaked

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This evening, the Guardian splashed on a leaked government

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Britain might END free movement of Labour immediately after Brexit.

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Something mooted, but never previously laid quite so bare.

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Chris Cook - our policy editor - and Nick Watt our political

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Does this sound like confirmation of what we knew would happen? It is a

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lot more colour in the picture. The dilemma was that we wanted a really

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smooth transition after leaving the EU, we wanted EU to treat us much

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like a member for a little while until we get our acts together just

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that and that we wanted to convince the EU that basically free movement

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was probably going to continue during that transition period. At

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the same time the Government wanted to convince us, the British public,

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that free movement whatever to 30 ending. So it was a delicate needle

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to thread. The thing is, this document doesn't do it, it is very

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clearly ending free movement, even the registration of workers coming

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in during the transition period. I think this signals that this is a

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document from the Home Office side, the anti-migration side of the civil

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service, it's about a government, if it were to be followed, worrying

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more about domestic consumption than perhaps securing the best deal we

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can get from the EU. In terms of what David Davis said today in the

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Commons, Nick, what did you pick out from what he had to offer? Very

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important illustration of the old phrase follow the money just if

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David Davis has his way, we will be following the money for the entirety

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of these two-year negotiations. Now, that is not what the EU wants. They

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want the UK to come to an agreement on the framework in three areas -

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the divorce bill, the rights of EU citizens who are already here at the

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point of departure and Northern Ireland. And what this intervention

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from David Davis today shows is his confidence that he is going to be

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able to say to the EU, you have a rigid structure and we simply cannot

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agree the fundamentals on these three points until we know what the

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overall deal for the future will be. A lot of chat in Whitehall how

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Michel Barnier, the EU's chief negotiator, carrying out the agreed

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mandate of the 27 member states, is being rigid and there is a hope, not

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a belief, that if Angela Merkel is re-elected in September come we

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might get a Brexit may well provide the biggest

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structural change to the British Tomorrow, the IPPR will release

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a report containing its response to the challenges -

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and interestingly, for a think tank often seen as on the centre-left

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of the political spectrum - they've got together

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with Helena Morrisey, the high profile fund manager

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and keen Brexiteer - I'm in the City of London, ranked

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the world's top financial centre. And outside the City, of course,

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Britain is home to many But as well as those

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world-class companies, we also have a problem,

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we have more companies than our international competitors

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that are lower productivity. Productivity is a measure

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of output versus input. And since the financial crisis

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a decade ago, the UK's overall productivity growth has stalled,

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reducing our economic potential. And no-one is quite sure why

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and economists have dubbed this the productivity puzzle,

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but it really matters, because if we're not making

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the best use of skills, then people are in insecure

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jobs and on low wages. At this stage, we have

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rising pay inequality, stagnating household

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incomes and many young to have higher living

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standards than their parents and that is the first time that has

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happened for many generations. And the UK's economy is also

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geographically very imbalanced, with about 40% of output generated

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by London and the south-east and there are many geopolitical

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uncertainties, including Brexit. You could argue that we don't really

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so much have an economic model, The specific challenges may be quite

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different, but in many ways, the situation we are at today is not

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dissimilar from the 1940s, when we were looking to rebuild

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the economy after the war, or the 1980s, when we were

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recovering from a deep recession. The question is, how do we change

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the economy for the better? How can we make it

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work for more people? Our economy needs fundamental

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change, not just tinkering We need the City and British

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businesses to be investing We need employers to be focused

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on creating good jobs that contribute to higher productivity

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and improved competitiveness. And we need the government

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to implement an industrial strategy that helps British businesses grow

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at home and compete abroad. Well, another of those behind

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the report is the man whose job it once was to respond to these changes

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in Government, the Head the Civil Service between 2012

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and 2014, Sir Bob Kerslake. Thank you for joining us. This

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report, as her lean out was same air and as the Archbishop of Canterbury

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has said, is pretty bleak. It says the economy is broken, the model is

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broken, it is a real slating of the British economy. You have to

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recognise that the UK economy has simply stopped working for ordinary

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people and the statistics are really very start. We have had the longest

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period of wage stagnation for 150 years and at the same time, the very

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wealthy people, the chief executives have raced ahead. 30 years ago aged

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Chief Executive may on average may be 20 times that of a worker, now it

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is 150 times. There are some very fundamental questions about our

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economy and they will not be tackled... If Phillip Hammond was

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sitting here, he would say we have low unemployment, faster growth than

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Europe over the years, the deficit has come down, the structure is

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there, is he wrong? He is talking about

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one set of measures but if you look at the economy over a period of

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time, we have deep structural problems that have been there for a

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while. Productivity, 20% lower than France and Germany and our

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investment has fallen for 30 years and the differences between

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different parts of the country are extraordinary. In the north-east and

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the north-west you might be on 30% less in terms of your salary. Is

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this the way the free market is operating? Partly. It is actually

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about what kind of economy do we want to create? There is a sense in

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which people say we cannot do much about the economy, it is settled by

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the market but I think we can have an ambition for a prosperous and

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just a economy and work towards it. It is a question of clarity and

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well. You used the word just and it is striking when you have a figure

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like the Archbishop in this, do you think the way the economy is being

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run is a moral? I think it is producing outcomes that we will find

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hard to defend if we ask the question because it is not

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delivering their outcomes for many of the people in this country.

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Others will form a view whether that is about morality. You had to defend

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those practices, you worked in the civil service over many years, did

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you find, did you find them wrong at the time? I don't think we

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necessarily saw individual policies as wrong, but what you need to look

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that is a longer period of what has happened in the UK... Help me on

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this, give me a sense, it is all very well to save the model is

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broken and we need to change the structure, fundamental reform, what

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does that mean? When you talk about taxation you say we need there,

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smarter, simpler taxes, you do not address the question of whether we

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need more taxes, should we be taking in more taxes? My personal view is

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that the current austerity approach has run out of road and we need a

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new approach... That is broadly agreed across the spectrum, even to

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reason may have said that now. Consequences flow from that, we have

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a fiscal gap that will need to be addressed. We need to look at who

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pays what and how the system works. You will not get people to buy into

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a change around tax unless they feel the system is fair. Do you want to

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see more intervention of the state, the government playing a bigger

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role? We do not start from presumption that it is about more of

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a stable, we start from a sense were you need to be clear what kind of

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economy you're trying to create and everyone gets behind it. There will

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be really important tasks for the state to do and in the report we set

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out 30 different new ideas that can be considered. It is not just about

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the state... Let me put this to you. A couple of years ago, Jeremy Corbyn

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became Labour leader and he said pretty much what is in your report,

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many in the establishment laughed at him and today you have the likes of

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yourself and the Archbishop of Canterbury broadly saying, he is on

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the right track with what he is talking about now! What you have is

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a number of politicians, including the Prime Minister, saying, there

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are issues. She talked about burning injustices that needed to be

:19:59.:20:03.

tackled, Jeremy Corbyn is saying something, so with Vince Cable...

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Would you now embrace that vision for Britain? We want a vision that

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is embraced not just by one party, but by the country, a clear sense in

:20:14.:20:24.

which we can create a fairer, just and prosperous economy and then we

:20:25.:20:26.

want business and trade unions and others to get behind it. We are not,

:20:27.:20:29.

as you will sleep in the membership of the commission, starting from one

:20:30.:20:32.

political party. Let's talk about Brexit, you were a civil servant at

:20:33.:20:35.

the heart of this, when David Davis said no one thought it would be

:20:36.:20:39.

easy, there were some sniggers, because some suggested it would, you

:20:40.:20:43.

ran the civil service, do you think they are embracing this challenge,

:20:44.:20:46.

are they ready for this and can they deliver it? The civil service

:20:47.:21:03.

prides itself on doing the job it is asked to do by the government of the

:21:04.:21:08.

day. It serves the government of the day and the government of the day is

:21:09.:21:10.

wanting to deliver Brexit. The challenge here and I will be direct,

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from my perspective, there is no upside. This is about damage

:21:14.:21:15.

limitation and we are working the situation where policy has not been

:21:16.:21:17.

properly settled. The Guardian story that Chris was talking about, it

:21:18.:21:20.

would be the end of free movement of Labour, pretty much from the start

:21:21.:21:24.

of Brexit and the document, draft document admittedly, it describes a

:21:25.:21:26.

massive IT operation and solution which would let people know, whether

:21:27.:21:32.

that person was allowed to work in the UK, where tapping on a number,

:21:33.:21:36.

is that feasible? I have not seen the details and I cannot comment. An

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election that was intended to settle the way we left the European Union

:21:42.:21:45.

did nothing of the sword. We still have a very live debate about how

:21:46.:21:50.

the transition period will work. In that situation, civil servants will

:21:51.:21:56.

struggle to get coherent policies, if the politicians have not sorted

:21:57.:22:01.

out their priorities. When the Prime Minister says that no deal is better

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than a bad deal, from a civil service point of view, no deal even

:22:05.:22:11.

an option? Could we survive no deal? I don't know what the civil service

:22:12.:22:14.

would say but I know my view, it would be an utter and complete

:22:15.:22:18.

disaster for this country and we need to be very frank about this,

:22:19.:22:22.

there is not a no deal option that would be good for this country.

:22:23.:22:24.

Thank you for coming in. Thank you. or health care professional suspects

:22:25.:22:36.

that a child has been the victim of female genital mutilation,

:22:37.:22:40.

they're obliged to to the local child

:22:41.:22:42.

safeguarding authority. But an investigation for Newsnight

:22:43.:22:44.

and Radio 4's The World At One has established that it can take months

:22:45.:22:47.

for children to be examined in cases And families can face

:22:48.:22:51.

lengthy and traumatic waits to prove their innocence -

:22:52.:22:53.

in some cases, children have been taken into care before

:22:54.:22:56.

they have even been examined. Newsnight has also revealed

:22:57.:22:58.

questions about the capabilities and credibility of one of the UK's

:22:59.:23:00.

best-known FGM specialists, Comfort Momoh, when it comes

:23:01.:23:03.

to examining children for FGM. Dr Faye Kirkland, a practising GP

:23:04.:23:05.

and investigative reporter, It has been called a hidden crime.

:23:06.:23:25.

FGM has been illegal in the UK for more than 30 years. It is still a

:23:26.:23:30.

common cultural practice in many countries in Africa, parts of Asia

:23:31.:23:35.

and the Middle East. There are no definitive figures, but the British

:23:36.:23:39.

Government has warned thousands are at risk and has committed to ending

:23:40.:23:45.

FGM worldwide within a generation. The issue of FGM is one on which I

:23:46.:23:50.

think we are all agreed across this whole house, it is an abhorrent

:23:51.:23:53.

activity, it should not be taking place. But are the

:23:54.:24:17.

authorities taking the right approach to investigating suspected

:24:18.:24:19.

cases of FGM, especially where children are concerned? We have been

:24:20.:24:21.

told that excessive waits for the examination of children are causing

:24:22.:24:23.

unnecessary trauma and that children can be placed under child protection

:24:24.:24:25.

measures while enquiries are ongoing. I felt like the whole world

:24:26.:24:28.

was crumbling down on me. Newsnight heard concerns about the credibility

:24:29.:24:30.

of one of the country's leading FGM campaigners and health care

:24:31.:24:37.

professionals. Nearly two years ago, it became a legal requirement for

:24:38.:24:42.

health care professionals, social workers and teachers to report cases

:24:43.:24:47.

of FGM in children to the police. But there are concerns the way some

:24:48.:24:54.

cases are being investigated is harming children and their families.

:24:55.:24:57.

If a child is suspected of having been subjected to FGM they should be

:24:58.:25:00.

physically examined by a specialist. In many cases however, it is a final

:25:01.:25:05.

part of the investigative process and can take place months after an

:25:06.:25:10.

accusation is made. When the child could already be on a child

:25:11.:25:14.

protection plan or in foster care. One reason being told is that police

:25:15.:25:19.

and social services and often misunderstand the nature of the

:25:20.:25:22.

examination, believing it to be more intrusive to the child than it

:25:23.:25:30.

actually is. This is the letter... It says there, there is no evidence

:25:31.:25:36.

of FGM. Yes. Pregnant with her third child, this woman, we will call her

:25:37.:25:42.

Emma, to protect the identities of children, asked a question out of

:25:43.:25:46.

curiosity during a routine medical appointment after the midwife

:25:47.:25:50.

mentioned FGM. Emma told me that she wanted to clarify what FGM was but a

:25:51.:25:56.

question sparked an investigation. It was curiosity. And who would be

:25:57.:26:02.

the best person to ask? It was the midwife. That same night a police

:26:03.:26:06.

officer came to her door, gave her leaflets and warned her about the

:26:07.:26:09.

practice. One year later, the same officer came back with social

:26:10.:26:13.

services, this time they said they had been informed she had had the

:26:14.:26:17.

procedure herself and there were concerns it had been carried out on

:26:18.:26:21.

her daughters. Emma denied the accusations, but the girls were put

:26:22.:26:25.

on a child protection plan, and measure local authorities used to

:26:26.:26:35.

safeguard children and maintain oversight of the family, before they

:26:36.:26:38.

had even been examined. What happened over the next few months?

:26:39.:26:40.

The atmosphere changed in the house. I wasn't myself. I had just had a

:26:41.:26:45.

baby, I was not given time to recover. I felt like the whole world

:26:46.:26:51.

was crumbling down on me and my children's behaviour changed in

:26:52.:26:57.

school. It triggered naughty behaviour and that had not happened

:26:58.:27:01.

before. I needed an examination done on me and my children and I knew

:27:02.:27:06.

that I had not undergone FGM and neither had my children. My children

:27:07.:27:12.

were fine and healthy, I had not heard them in any way. -- I had not

:27:13.:27:20.

hurt them. Newsnight has been told that her story is not uncommon. A

:27:21.:27:25.

charity that works with families told us they had seen a child is

:27:26.:27:28.

placed into foster care for eight months while waiting to be examined.

:27:29.:27:33.

She was found not to have had FGM, but the delay caused serious

:27:34.:27:38.

distress. They are calling for changes to be made. Using the right

:27:39.:27:44.

translators, ensuring that there is effective support for families to

:27:45.:27:48.

get legal assistance, because of the challenges with Legal Aid and

:27:49.:27:53.

ensuring that families are examined on time and children are as well,

:27:54.:27:59.

but in a sensitive way and within the right environments. Do you think

:28:00.:28:02.

the way some investigations are being handled is letting families

:28:03.:28:09.

down? Oh, yes. A lot of times, what becomes a problem is possibly lack

:28:10.:28:15.

of training for professionals, effective training. There is a knee

:28:16.:28:18.

jerk reaction from professionals when they hear FGM, sometimes, I

:28:19.:28:24.

don't know whether it is terrified or wanting to make sure that

:28:25.:28:28.

something does not go wrong. So, they really go in too hard. At 26

:28:29.:28:38.

team by experts at university College London Hospital, showed

:28:39.:28:40.

children were waiting nearly two months on average to be referred for

:28:41.:28:44.

an examination, but there are cases of weights of over one year. In a

:28:45.:28:51.

Home Affairs Select Committee report two years ago, Keith Vaz warned,

:28:52.:28:57.

while agencies play pass the parcel responsibility, young girls are

:28:58.:29:00.

being mutilated every hour of every day. This barbaric crime which is

:29:01.:29:06.

committed daily on such a huge scale across the UK cannot continue to go

:29:07.:29:11.

unpunished. But I have been told by specialists around the country that

:29:12.:29:15.

many cases they see are historic and they do not believe that FGM is

:29:16.:29:19.

taking place in this country at anything like the same rates as some

:29:20.:29:26.

politicians have stated. There are three main specialist centres in the

:29:27.:29:30.

UK where children are examined for FGM, based in London, Birmingham and

:29:31.:29:35.

here in Manchester. Doctor Catherine White of Saint Mary 's sexual

:29:36.:29:38.

assault referral centre has seen more than 40 referrals since

:29:39.:29:43.

mandatory reporting came in. 14 of those cases were found an

:29:44.:29:49.

examination to have had FGM. So far we have not noticed FGM in cases

:29:50.:29:54.

where the family have said, no, the child has not had it. Of the cases

:29:55.:29:58.

you have seen, how many of them have occurred here in the UK? None. Where

:29:59.:30:05.

we have seen evidence of FGM, the children have been born outside of

:30:06.:30:11.

the UK and the history is that they have had the FGM done outside of the

:30:12.:30:15.

UK. In the media we have been told that they might be thousands of

:30:16.:30:19.

cases. Why do you think there is a discrepancy in those figures?

:30:20.:30:27.

I know that some of it might be that it's hidden, but I think if certain

:30:28.:30:38.

types of FGM were being done at the rates that we were led to expect, we

:30:39.:30:49.

would be seeing cases coming through with infection or bleeding, they

:30:50.:30:52.

would be ending up in front of health officials and they would then

:30:53.:30:55.

be referred to us - and that's just hasn't happened. These clinics

:30:56.:31:01.

provide very specialised care. But Newsnight has learned that some

:31:02.:31:04.

children have been examined by people whose qualifications and

:31:05.:31:06.

experience have been called into question. Comfort Momoh is a midwife

:31:07.:31:14.

and leading campaigner against FGM. She established one of the UK's

:31:15.:31:19.

first FGM clinics at a Guy's Hospital and is recently retired

:31:20.:31:23.

from Guy's and St Thomas' trust. Gee whizz! MBE for her work in women's

:31:24.:31:29.

health, but senior specialists have raised concerns to Newsnight about

:31:30.:31:33.

whether she is completely credible, specifically when it comes to

:31:34.:31:37.

examining children for FGM. The Home Office and the bodies which set the

:31:38.:31:40.

standards for the forensic examination of children all say that

:31:41.:31:44.

only doctors with the relevant qualifications and experience should

:31:45.:31:50.

examine children for FGM. But Comfort Momoh has examined at least

:31:51.:31:53.

five children, despite not having the relevant codification is. In a

:31:54.:31:57.

high-profile case she testified that a child had had FGM. Adjudged

:31:58.:32:02.

ascribed her report as a remarkably shoddy piece of work and worse than

:32:03.:32:07.

useless. He concluded the child had not undergone FGM. A week later, in

:32:08.:32:16.

a separate court case, Comfort Momoh was listed as a key expert witness

:32:17.:32:21.

for the prosecution of the trial of the first doctor in the UK

:32:22.:32:24.

prosecuted for allegedly carrying out FGM. Newsnight understands

:32:25.:32:28.

Comfort Momoh was due to give evidence but was dropped just before

:32:29.:32:31.

the trial, although no reasons were given. A jury acquitted the doctor

:32:32.:32:36.

after less than half an hour of deliberations. There are also

:32:37.:32:42.

suggestions that Comfort Momoh might be exaggerating her professional

:32:43.:32:46.

qualifications. She has repeatedly describe herself as a doctor but is

:32:47.:32:51.

not a qualified medical doctor. Instead she has an honorary

:32:52.:32:56.

doctorate from Middlesex university. A university spokesman confirmed to

:32:57.:33:01.

Newsnight that this does not enable her to use the title doctor.

:33:02.:33:04.

Newsnight put these allegations to Comfort Momoh but she has chosen not

:33:05.:33:08.

to respond. Newsnight also approached the Nursing And Midwifery

:33:09.:33:15.

Council and they told us they were already investigating concerns about

:33:16.:33:18.

Comfort Momoh. We do not know whether this is connected in any way

:33:19.:33:24.

with our findings. Emma had to fight to get her children examine the, but

:33:25.:33:27.

she says the struggle has had long-lasting effects on her and her

:33:28.:33:35.

family. The police officer said to me, if I had not had the examination

:33:36.:33:39.

taken for my children because I would have lost my children - social

:33:40.:33:47.

services would have taken them away. What impact has this had on you as a

:33:48.:33:52.

mum and your children? I didn't want to lose my children. It would have

:33:53.:33:55.

been so heartbreaking, so it gave me the strength to get them examined by

:33:56.:34:04.

a specialist that is trained to examine in that field, knock

:34:05.:34:10.

anybody, any doctor or any GP, it should be somebody trained

:34:11.:34:17.

specifically for that. Protecting women and girls from FGM is crucial.

:34:18.:34:22.

At examinations needs to be timely and carried out by qualified people.

:34:23.:34:27.

There is more work to be done to save young girls from unnecessary

:34:28.:34:28.

distress. We asked to speak to someone

:34:29.:34:35.

from the Home Office, Joining us now is Leyla Hussein,

:34:36.:34:37.

a psychotherapist It is nice of you to come in. You've

:34:38.:35:17.

seen some of these delayed cases - why are children separated from

:35:18.:35:22.

their parents for so long? For me I think it is important that we make

:35:23.:35:26.

it very clear - whenever a child is at risk of any harm, obviously, I

:35:27.:35:32.

think the authorities do the right thing by removing the child. Is it

:35:33.:35:37.

delayed? Yes. Is it wrong? Yes. But there is a reason. The reason it

:35:38.:35:45.

happens, unfortunately, when we work in such cases, multi-agency work

:35:46.:35:49.

needs to take place. Unfortunately when we are dealing with FGM, there

:35:50.:35:53.

aren't enough experts who are working with the authorities, hence

:35:54.:35:56.

why there is such a long delay. But when you talk about multi-agency

:35:57.:36:00.

approaches, for most people watching, they assume it's physical

:36:01.:36:05.

college is fairly easy to spot, it's something that actually a doctor can

:36:06.:36:09.

look at and tell very quickly - why isn't that the case? There are

:36:10.:36:14.

different types of FGM, that important. But also we need to

:36:15.:36:20.

understand, communities who practice FGM still don't see this as a form

:36:21.:36:25.

of abuse. This was something that was good for us, it's something for

:36:26.:36:28.

professionals to understand, so we're not going to come forward and

:36:29.:36:33.

say this happened to us, hence why it is still not being picked up as

:36:34.:36:37.

it should be. But when the suspected cases were followed up, most of them

:36:38.:36:41.

were found to be false, these allegations, so does that suggest

:36:42.:36:44.

the system is wrong or they are chasing the wrong people or they are

:36:45.:36:49.

not able to...? I think we need to be careful when we say it's false

:36:50.:36:56.

allegations. From my own experience, we are talking about... Since the

:36:57.:37:01.

protection orders were introduced, it invented girls from undergoing

:37:02.:37:06.

the practice. And any family, you contact them regarding any form of

:37:07.:37:10.

abuse, they're not going to say to you, we abuse our child. From my own

:37:11.:37:15.

experience, when protection orders were introduced over a two years

:37:16.:37:22.

ago, the first year, there were over 90 reported cases, 90 protection

:37:23.:37:28.

orders were put in place and a lot of them came from family members, we

:37:29.:37:32.

cannot ignore that. Of those 90, do we know how many...? I can't give a

:37:33.:37:38.

specific... From my own experience, families who I worked with, it came

:37:39.:37:43.

from siblings who overheard families talk about planning to take them

:37:44.:37:47.

away. And of course, if you take somebody away before it's happened

:37:48.:37:50.

and there is no physical evidence, it doesn't mean it's not going to

:37:51.:37:55.

happen? And this is the thing with FGM. The only way you can actually

:37:56.:37:59.

prove it takes place is if it actually happens. What we are trying

:38:00.:38:03.

to do, and the UK Government, is to do the prevention work. I'm going to

:38:04.:38:10.

repeat myself but if you are dealing with any form of abuse of a child,

:38:11.:38:14.

there is a procedure you have to go through to investigate. Does it take

:38:15.:38:18.

long? Absolutely and it shouldn't, but what the Government needs to do

:38:19.:38:22.

is invest more resources in working with the local authorities, and

:38:23.:38:25.

that's what's been missing. Let me ask you something. We heard in the

:38:26.:38:32.

film, what's remarkable is that many quietly think the problem of FGM in

:38:33.:38:39.

this country has shrunk, that it's a good news story, a positive story

:38:40.:38:42.

they don't say that for fear that people will turn round and say,

:38:43.:38:46.

you're covering this up - where do you stand on that? For me, in terms

:38:47.:38:54.

of attitude is changing, we are seeing a little bit of change. And

:38:55.:38:59.

also I think those of us who work in the UK, what we need to take credit

:39:00.:39:04.

for, if you look at FGM globally, we really are leading in terms of how

:39:05.:39:07.

we are dealing with this. But we have a law, the French don't have a

:39:08.:39:13.

law - has the law actually hindered us compared to the French system,

:39:14.:39:20.

which has actually...? I have always been against the FGM Act. For me, if

:39:21.:39:24.

you have a child because you treat it like any other form of abuse. If

:39:25.:39:29.

you were cutting a child's finger, it should not be any different from

:39:30.:39:33.

cutting their genitals. That's why a lot of communities feel ostracised,

:39:34.:39:38.

because they feel they need to have a specific law just for them. And

:39:39.:39:43.

hence why no-one comes forward. The reason France has been successful in

:39:44.:39:47.

this particular aspect of the work, it's because they haven't treated it

:39:48.:39:50.

differently. I know from colleagues who work in France who say to me, we

:39:51.:39:54.

would see this as a form of child abuse. It's a form of child abuse.

:39:55.:40:01.

I've had police officers here in the UK who have come up to me and said,

:40:02.:40:06.

if I walked into such a scene, I wouldn't call it female genital

:40:07.:40:11.

mutilation comma it's a sexual assault against a child. Thanks for

:40:12.:40:12.

coming in. And last but certainly

:40:13.:40:17.

not least tonight, growing fears about another giant

:40:18.:40:19.

hurricane in the Atlantic Ocean. Hurricane Irma is gaining

:40:20.:40:22.

in strength and heading towards the Caribbean

:40:23.:40:24.

and United States. Stav Danaos, from our

:40:25.:40:25.

Weather Centre, is here. Talk us through what you're

:40:26.:40:33.

expecting - how do you know how big it's going to be? We are looking at

:40:34.:40:38.

the satellite picture, which is proving what a huge monster this

:40:39.:40:42.

storm is. But in the last few hours, it has intensified rapidly. It has

:40:43.:40:49.

become an extremely catastrophic, strong Eckel category five storm,

:40:50.:40:57.

with winds of 185mph with gusts in excess of 220mph. It does not really

:40:58.:41:03.

get stronger than this. You have a sense of where it is going to hit

:41:04.:41:09.

land? Most computer models agree that it is heading westwards into a

:41:10.:41:12.

cluster of islands. Because it's such a big storm, it is difficult

:41:13.:41:17.

for it to avoid that cluster of islands. The strongest winds are

:41:18.:41:23.

around the eye, where we see the extreme devastation. But even

:41:24.:41:26.

further out, the winds will be damaging. And then you have got an

:41:27.:41:30.

extremely powerful is Toms surge associated with it and with the low

:41:31.:41:34.

pressure and the strong winds as well and the heavy rain. We can see

:41:35.:41:38.

here on the satellite picture the intensity of the eye. They're saying

:41:39.:41:45.

this is the biggest for ten years? It is and it could be up with the

:41:46.:41:50.

top three strongest ever Atlantic storms and it is not far off being

:41:51.:41:55.

THE stronger stuff all. Is it possible that it could avoid land

:41:56.:41:59.

treaty? Not really, because it's going to be heading westwards

:42:00.:42:02.

towards the Virgin Islands and Haiti. Bluntly, you would be getting

:42:03.:42:08.

out if you were in any of those islands tonight? Absolutely, and in

:42:09.:42:14.

places like Antigua, Barbuda, which are going to be hit in the early

:42:15.:42:21.

hours, if you're in a concrete, reinforced building, you will be

:42:22.:42:24.

fine, but other areas will be completely flattened. The difference

:42:25.:42:30.

with Harvey, back did cause damage on the coast, but because the

:42:31.:42:36.

landmass of the United States is so huge, the landmass kills off the

:42:37.:42:41.

supply of moisture, so all the rain which fell in Harvey fell in a small

:42:42.:42:48.

area. It almost stalled around the Houston area. This one is going to

:42:49.:42:53.

be more mobile and it's going to maintain its strength.

:42:54.:43:01.

We would like to leave you with more pictures from outer space, the

:43:02.:43:08.

Voyager probe, launched 40 years ago today, the first man-made probe to

:43:09.:43:14.

leave our solar system, built in the 1970s and still sending us back

:43:15.:43:21.

answers - as well as questions - about the universe. Good night. We

:43:22.:43:34.

have lift-off! Hello from the children of planet Earth...

:43:35.:43:42.