Browse content similar to 26/10/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
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The scene this evening outside the
Catalonian parliament in Barcelona. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:11 | |
Supporters of independence brace
themselves for battle. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:16 | |
Without quite knowing
when, where or what form | 0:00:16 | 0:00:17 | |
the battle will take. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
TRANSLATION: At this moment, Mr
Puigdemont, you are putting a | 0:00:26 | 0:00:34 | |
generation in jeopardy. Tomorrow
rests on your shoulders. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:39 | |
Tomorrow come two crunch votes,
the Spanish will decide | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
whether to take control of
Catalonia, Catalonia will decide | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
whether to declare itself
independent. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
The country stands
on the brink of a showdown. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:47 | |
We'll ask if there's a way back
from constitutional conflict. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:54 | |
Something's up in Saudi Arabia. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
Is it really possible
that we'll be holidaying there, | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
on the Red Sea coast
by the end of the next decade? | 0:01:00 | 0:01:04 | |
The Saudi crown prince has outlined
big plans to beat back the forces | 0:01:04 | 0:01:08 | |
of conservatism and to take the
kingdom into a new era of normality. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:13 | |
We'll ask if the Saudi prince's plan
is ever likely to succeed. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:21 | |
And are our universities
a bastion of left wing remoaners, | 0:01:21 | 0:01:23 | |
and if so, does it matter? | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
The Daily Mail's
Stephen Glover takes it up | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
with a professor of philosophy. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
Hello. After a day of some confusion
in Catalonia, Spain this evening | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
stands on the brink of a serious
clash between region and nation. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:44 | |
After some dithering,
the Catalan president | 0:01:44 | 0:01:48 | |
Carles Puigdemont decided
not to call an election. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
Instead, he said the Catalan
parliament will decide | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
on whether independence
should be declared. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
The vote is expected
to happen tomorrow. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:59 | |
Meanwhile in Madrid,
the Spanish senate will also vote | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
on whether to invoke Article 155,
allowing the national government | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
to take control of Catalonia. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:10 | |
A test of strength may follow,
who will the Police | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
in Catalonia obey? | 0:02:13 | 0:02:14 | |
Can a government run
a region against its will? | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
And will the pro-independence
politicians in Catalonia remain | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
united in their determination? | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
Well, it's a volatile situation,
and our diplomatic editor Mark Urban | 0:02:22 | 0:02:24 | |
is outside the parliament. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:31 | |
Is that a City in turmoil this
evening? It's not, and in fact, the | 0:02:31 | 0:02:39 | |
demonstrations we saw earlier in the
day from militant separatists not | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
really more than a few thousand,
even those have dissipated now and | 0:02:42 | 0:02:47 | |
the streets are largely quiet. But
everyone you talk to hear is full of | 0:02:47 | 0:02:52 | |
a sense of anticipation about
tomorrow. Now, if there are people | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
that don't believe in quitting
Spain, its anticipation tinged with | 0:02:56 | 0:03:01 | |
trepidation. The separatists, it is
tinged with possibility. People in | 0:03:01 | 0:03:09 | |
the centre ground of politics here,
a parallel with Brexit, they believe | 0:03:09 | 0:03:15 | |
if the parliament vote tomorrow is
one of separation, somehow things | 0:03:15 | 0:03:18 | |
will be sorted out, and life will
not change in a major way. But | 0:03:18 | 0:03:25 | |
still, all sorts of tensions on the
two flanks of this question. Can | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
either side back down now, that is
the crucial question this evening? | 0:03:28 | 0:03:36 | |
You are right. It is absolutely a
crucial question, given that both of | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
committed to certain courses of
action tomorrow. It seems the | 0:03:41 | 0:03:45 | |
Spanish Prime Minister has talked
about using the nuclear option, | 0:03:45 | 0:03:50 | |
so-called article 155 of the
Constitution. Some people are | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
saying, there is a certain amount of
wriggle room. But he seemed to be | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
committed to going forward on that
route, regardless of what is said or | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
decided in Catalonia. For their
part, the Catalans are also | 0:04:01 | 0:04:08 | |
committed to this vote on
independence, and most people think, | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
even though there are splits within
the President's party, they will | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
boat to go that way. How can it be
resolved? It is really, really | 0:04:14 | 0:04:19 | |
unclear whether it can be, hence the
strong sense of people almost | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
trembling with the possibilities of
what tomorrow will bring. Hence | 0:04:23 | 0:04:29 | |
also, a meandering around
politically dumb by the President | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
throughout the day in Parliament. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
Nothing happened quite as expected
today in the Catalan parliament. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:43 | |
Elections were going to be called,
then they want, and as one timed | 0:04:43 | 0:04:50 | |
event or another slipped and
vanished, the press pack were | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
suitably laid-back. Instead, he
promised a parliamentary vote on | 0:04:53 | 0:04:58 | |
independence, separatist deputies
were jubilant. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:04 | |
TRANSLATION: I was prepared to call
these elections on the sole | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
condition that we were given
guarantees that they would be held | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
in an absolutely normal manner. But
there are no such guarantees that | 0:05:12 | 0:05:18 | |
would justify calling these regional
elections today. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:24 | |
Pro independence deputies who
thought he'd lost his nerve were | 0:05:24 | 0:05:29 | |
jubilant. The president has said he
won't call elections, and he'll give | 0:05:29 | 0:05:35 | |
the whole matter to Parliament to
decide. And these people are happy, | 0:05:35 | 0:05:40 | |
because they favour independence,
and they think parliament will, too. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
But if he leaves it to a
parliamentary vote, having a slim | 0:05:44 | 0:05:49 | |
majority of assent within his own
party, will there be majority for | 0:05:49 | 0:05:55 | |
independence?
TRANSLATION: It's come to the moment | 0:05:55 | 0:06:00 | |
of truth, and we feel the nerves
appropriate to such a man. We think | 0:06:00 | 0:06:05 | |
tomorrow, in the parliament, the
favour for independence will end up | 0:06:05 | 0:06:11 | |
declaring independence.
As this played out, the government | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
in Madrid mulls the position of
emergency rule on Catalonia, | 0:06:14 | 0:06:18 | |
something that could also happen to
one. Each side apparently determined | 0:06:18 | 0:06:23 | |
the other should make the bigger
error. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:29 | |
TRANSLATION: In order to come back
within the law, where you are, where | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
we are, where the government is, and
since Saturday, nothing relevant has | 0:06:33 | 0:06:39 | |
happened. But we have heard nothing
but noise. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:45 | |
Tonight, the parliament is debating
a motion for independence with | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
predictions, if anything is still
predictable here, that it will come | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
tomorrow morning at 10:30.
Outside, separatists scenting | 0:06:51 | 0:07:00 | |
victory in joy a carnival
atmosphere. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
I think the real battles darts from
the declaration of Independence. And | 0:07:02 | 0:07:08 | |
for that, we need the support of our
president. Which we are not sure we | 0:07:08 | 0:07:15 | |
have.
What is the Catalonian government | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
doing quiz on what is the Spanish
are doing? It has been tense. The | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
people here are ready to speak for
what they passionately believe in, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
which I think its independence.
Mark Urban reporting from Barcelona. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:32 | |
I'm joined from Barcelona
by the pro-independence | 0:07:32 | 0:07:34 | |
activist Anna Arque Solsona,
and via Skype from Madrid | 0:07:34 | 0:07:36 | |
by Alfredo Pastor, he's the former
Spanish Economic Minister. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:42 | |
Good evening to you, Alfredo Pastor.
What is the best way out of this | 0:07:42 | 0:07:47 | |
situation as we stand here now?
Easiest one seems to be for the | 0:07:47 | 0:07:53 | |
president of of the Catalan
government to call an election. That | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
is the easiest one. Right. Now talk
me through what happens if he | 0:07:58 | 0:08:03 | |
doesn't do that. Talk me through
what happens if they do vote through | 0:08:03 | 0:08:11 | |
this declaration of Independence.
The motion can be carried, it may be | 0:08:11 | 0:08:18 | |
carried or it may not. A majority is
a very weak one. It would be for | 0:08:18 | 0:08:31 | |
five independence for it to be
declared. No one is going to | 0:08:31 | 0:08:38 | |
recognise. Then, of course, article
155 would be set in motion. Right. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:44 | |
Does Carles Puigdemont, does he get
arrested and sent to jail? I have no | 0:08:44 | 0:08:52 | |
idea, but I wouldn't be surprised.
You wouldn't be surprised if he was | 0:08:52 | 0:08:58 | |
sent to jail? I wouldn't be
surprised, no. Justice is when slow | 0:08:58 | 0:09:04 | |
in Spain, but sooner or later, the
clearing independence like that is | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
not something... It is not allowed.
Do you think the Spanish government | 0:09:07 | 0:09:14 | |
can keep hold of it as the federal
government can hold Catalonia by | 0:09:14 | 0:09:21 | |
force? Do you think that is a very
good idea? If Catalonia doesn't want | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
to be part of Spain, you can hold it
there, and you can force the police, | 0:09:24 | 0:09:30 | |
sent in the Army, keep it and occupy
it? Catalonia does not have one | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
single voice. There is a large
number in Catalonia who would prefer | 0:09:34 | 0:09:39 | |
not to be in Spain. I'm not sure
that all of them have weighed up the | 0:09:39 | 0:09:46 | |
costs and benefits of that
carefully. But the fact that many of | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
them, many more than the Spanish
government thought, are in favour of | 0:09:49 | 0:09:52 | |
independence. But they are by no
means a majority. Even the | 0:09:52 | 0:10:01 | |
government tried to hold even this
large group of people by force, that | 0:10:01 | 0:10:08 | |
cannot continue indefinitely. Let me
go over to Anna Arque Solsona. You | 0:10:08 | 0:10:16 | |
are in favour of independence, what
is the right thing now, to hold an | 0:10:16 | 0:10:21 | |
election in Catalonia? This is what
the president of Catalonia pulled | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
away from today. With the right
thing to delay the election and | 0:10:24 | 0:10:30 | |
withhold the crisis that is
impending tomorrow? Well, I think | 0:10:30 | 0:10:36 | |
that tomorrow is a perfect day to
lift up the suspension of the | 0:10:36 | 0:10:41 | |
declaration of Independence. That is
the mandate of the people, that was | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
the result of the referendum, to
which 43% of the population voted, | 0:10:45 | 0:10:52 | |
even though the violence that we
suffered that day from the Spanish | 0:10:52 | 0:10:57 | |
police against unarmed people, even
though we do have a mandate, and | 0:10:57 | 0:11:04 | |
that is in favour. Sorry to
interrupt, but if you are so | 0:11:04 | 0:11:10 | |
confident of this strong
independence, then great, have an | 0:11:10 | 0:11:14 | |
election. You will obviously have
the independent forces win with a | 0:11:14 | 0:11:21 | |
thumping majority, and you can go
ahead because you have more | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
legitimacy than that referendum.
Well, but there's really no point | 0:11:24 | 0:11:33 | |
for an election. We had elections,
that's why we have an absolute | 0:11:33 | 0:11:38 | |
majority of members of the
parliament in favour of the | 0:11:38 | 0:11:42 | |
independence, and that's why we've
been able to pass through two laws. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:46 | |
One of them, the referendum, the law
for the referendum, for soft | 0:11:46 | 0:11:51 | |
determination. We have achieved that
because we already had elections, | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
and we have already won the absolute
majority. That's why we did the | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
referendum. And now, people have
spoken, the same way as Brexit | 0:11:59 | 0:12:05 | |
referendum people spoke. OK... That
is democracy, that is what it is all | 0:12:05 | 0:12:11 | |
about. When Carles Puigdemont is
sent to jail on Monday because the | 0:12:11 | 0:12:16 | |
Spanish novelties don't agree with
your assessment, when that happens, | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
who runs Catalonia, and what is
going to have an? What do you | 0:12:19 | 0:12:24 | |
actually expect to happen on Monday
if you declare independence and | 0:12:24 | 0:12:30 | |
banish pass article 155? -- the
Spanish pass Article 100 55. It is | 0:12:30 | 0:12:39 | |
important to remember, in Spain at
the moment, there are two people in | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
Spain just to organise a peaceful
demonstration. They do have two get | 0:12:42 | 0:12:51 | |
to arrest President Puigdemont, and
maybe it is not that easy, because | 0:12:51 | 0:12:56 | |
he is the person of this country,
elected democratically and legally. | 0:12:56 | 0:13:01 | |
Who is good to run in case the
Spanish state goes once again way | 0:13:01 | 0:13:07 | |
beyond the democratic framework that
we have given, all of us, in the | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
European Union? Nothing, another
person will be in charge of... Will | 0:13:11 | 0:13:19 | |
there be violence? Article 155 is
not going to be able to be | 0:13:19 | 0:13:26 | |
reapplied... Is... You need the
people to obey. We have little | 0:13:26 | 0:13:34 | |
time... Sorry to interrupt. We have
little time, do you think there will | 0:13:34 | 0:13:40 | |
be violence if Spain tries to take
control of Catalonia, or partial | 0:13:40 | 0:13:46 | |
control Catalonia? Not from the
Catalan side. All the violence that | 0:13:46 | 0:13:51 | |
we have experienced has been from
the Spanish state. Thank you... | 0:13:51 | 0:14:02 | |
Sorry, I had to cut you off. I want
to put that point to Alfredo Pastor, | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
do you think there will be violence?
If the Spanish state, if it sees it | 0:14:06 | 0:14:11 | |
can't control Catalonia peacefully,
will it use tanks on Monday? No, | 0:14:11 | 0:14:16 | |
there will be no tanks. There will
first be demonstration by peaceful | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
people, who will probably start
breaking things after a while, then | 0:14:19 | 0:14:23 | |
the police will have to come and
things are about. That kind of | 0:14:23 | 0:14:27 | |
street violence will happen, but
there will be no tanks. It will be | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
an pleasant, the problem in the long
run, the wounds will take time to | 0:14:32 | 0:14:42 | |
heal. We need to leave it there. We
don't have any more time. But we | 0:14:42 | 0:14:47 | |
will be watching obviously
everything that happens over the | 0:14:47 | 0:14:49 | |
next few days. Thank you, both, very
much indeed. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:56 | |
A boring old conference
for investors held in the Saudi | 0:14:56 | 0:14:58 | |
capital Riyadh would not normally
move the news dial here. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:00 | |
But a bland-sounding
gathering this week, | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
the Future Investment Initiative,
has really put on show, | 0:15:02 | 0:15:04 | |
a Saudi ambition for a momentous
change of direction. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
A transformation of the world's
strangest, and least liberal | 0:15:07 | 0:15:09 | |
countries and one of our most
problematic allies could be | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
transformative of the region. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:17 | |
A tie-up with Richard Branson
announced this week, | 0:15:17 | 0:15:18 | |
and his company called Virgin,
is but one sign of the culture | 0:15:18 | 0:15:21 | |
change apparently underway. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
The Crown Prince, Mohammed bin
Salman, heir to the throne, | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
looks like one of those Gorbachev
types that come along | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
from time to time. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
An insider who thinks the regime
in which he operates | 0:15:33 | 0:15:35 | |
is dysfunctional, and needs to be
reformed. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:45 | |
One concrete ambition
is an investment of half | 0:15:52 | 0:15:53 | |
of $1 trillion in a new futuristic
city on the red Sea | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
coast called NEOM. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:57 | |
A place where pioneers and thinkers
and doers can exchange ideas | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
and get things done. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:01 | |
The promotional video shows just how
different they intend it to be | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
from the stultifying,
repressed images we | 0:16:04 | 0:16:05 | |
normally see from Saudi. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:10 | |
TRANSLATION: Stunning nature,
mountains, plains, valleys, coast, | 0:16:10 | 0:16:15 | |
coral reefs, islands,
mountains that are covered | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
with snow in winter,
mild weather in summer, | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
10 degrees less than the other gulf
cities and capitals. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:29 | |
The political will is strong. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
The popular will and
desire is strong. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:34 | |
All the elements of success exist
to create something great | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:38 | |
That's the Crown Prince bin Salman. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:40 | |
He's only 32. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:41 | |
And the recently appointed heir
to the Saudi throne, | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
replacing his cousin in the role. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:45 | |
He's already impressed
President Trump. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
With energy that flows
from the sun and wind. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:53 | |
One objective is economic,
preparing the country | 0:16:53 | 0:16:55 | |
for when the world weans
itself off oil. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
It also needs jobs to occupy
its youthful population. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:02 | |
More than two thirds
of the population is under 30. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:07 | |
But another objective is cultural,
the country has become a beacon | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
of ultraconservative Sunni thinking. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:14 | |
The Crown Prince made an astonishing
admission to the Guardian this week. | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
What happened in the region
in the last 30 years | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
is not the Middle East,
after the Iranian Revolution in 1979 | 0:17:21 | 0:17:25 | |
people wanted to copy this model
in different countries. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:31 | |
One of them is Saudi Arabia. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:32 | |
We didn't know how to deal
with it and the problems | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
spread all over the world. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:36 | |
Now is the time to get rid of it. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
Change has already been evident. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:41 | |
Women being given licence to drive. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:47 | |
An obvious step to us,
but a huge change in Saudi Arabia. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:51 | |
The vicious war in Yemen might be
seen as just one sign | 0:17:51 | 0:17:54 | |
that the country is not close
to a humane presence in the region. | 0:17:54 | 0:18:00 | |
And then, of course,
there is the problem | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
of resistance within. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:03 | |
Will a Crown Prince beat the forces
whose status and power has | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
derived from the old order? | 0:18:06 | 0:18:11 | |
Saudi Arabia as a new Dubai? | 0:18:11 | 0:18:13 | |
Well, Dubai has its issues, but
nothing compared to those of Saudi. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
So is reform for real? | 0:18:16 | 0:18:17 | |
I'm joined by the Saudi
journalist Abeer Mishkhas, | 0:18:17 | 0:18:19 | |
who returned just this week
from Riyadh, and by Nesrine Malik | 0:18:19 | 0:18:22 | |
another journalist who herself used
to live in Saudi Arabia. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:24 | |
But let's start with the BBC's
Frank Gardner who knows | 0:18:24 | 0:18:27 | |
the country extremely well. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
Let's start | 0:18:29 | 0:18:30 | |
Frank, tell us about this Crown
Prince. It's impossible to overstate | 0:18:36 | 0:18:42 | |
the changes this man is making. By
Saudi standards it is moving at a | 0:18:42 | 0:18:48 | |
lightning pace. These are changes
nobody could imagine possible | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
happening so quickly. The man who
runs the economy, the defence, the | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
Royal Court, just about everything,
has turned around and told the | 0:18:56 | 0:19:01 | |
people of Saudi we have been getting
it wrong, it is time to stop | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
extremism. And he has the support of
the King, presumably, because he was | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
promoted by him a few months back.
He does. I met them both in 2013 in | 0:19:08 | 0:19:15 | |
the king 's palace. I didn't even
know who he was. I said what you do | 0:19:15 | 0:19:20 | |
for a living, he said he was a
lawyer. At the time he was | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
relatively obscure. But he has risen
to prominence. He has made some | 0:19:24 | 0:19:29 | |
mistakes. He started this
catastrophic war with the Yemen. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
Nobody is winning it. The Yemenis
are losing it by the thousands. Is | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
also involved in a spat with Qatar.
But this is a bold step that many | 0:19:36 | 0:19:43 | |
people of Saudi belief should be
done. They need to find an | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
alternative to oil and they need to
join the rest of the 21st-century. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:50 | |
Let me turn to my two guests. Do you
think this is for real? Often people | 0:19:50 | 0:19:56 | |
talk about reform but it isn't
there. I think it is for real. There | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
is a huge wave of feminism in the
country. Something nobody talked | 0:20:00 | 0:20:06 | |
about before. Talked about how we
had a problem with... With the | 0:20:06 | 0:20:11 | |
religious establishment, with the
ideology. And to say that we had all | 0:20:11 | 0:20:16 | |
of that time, we wasted 30 years, we
won't waste another 30 years, and we | 0:20:16 | 0:20:23 | |
have to do something about it. I
think this is something somebody was | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
so happy to hear. Presumably you
welcome this? Absolutely. Were other | 0:20:26 | 0:20:33 | |
people talking about it? Yes, they
well, at least the people I have | 0:20:33 | 0:20:38 | |
seen and talked to, they are very
optimistic. They are thinking about | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
what is going to happen in the
country. Do you feel this is real? | 0:20:42 | 0:20:48 | |
One thing you could do is liberate
it now, say we will take people out | 0:20:48 | 0:20:55 | |
of jail... I believe it's real. One
issue is that in the short term a | 0:20:55 | 0:21:01 | |
shifting of tectonic plates, is a
completely revolutionary, is | 0:21:01 | 0:21:05 | |
something we did not expect to see
in our lifetime? Absolutely yes. My | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
concern is in the application and
the suggestive mistakes that he has | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
made, which you have mentioned, and
in the past few weeks, since he has | 0:21:13 | 0:21:20 | |
started to confront the religious
establishment, people have been | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
thrown in jail, banned from
travelling, and every high-profile | 0:21:22 | 0:21:27 | |
youth religious scholar and TV
presenter was banned from | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
travelling. That was just a day. My
concern is, is the application going | 0:21:29 | 0:21:36 | |
to be as smooth, and is the support
for him confined to Cosmopolitan, | 0:21:36 | 0:21:43 | |
elites, but in the hinterlands which
one of the senior royals referred | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
to, the people in the small towns
that haven't really, you know, come | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
with The Times, are they going to be
supportive? You support the guy | 0:21:50 | 0:22:01 | |
obviously. Why is there still such
repression today? You could start | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
liberating more quickly for this
programme, you don't have to | 0:22:06 | 0:22:08 | |
envision 2030. It's very hard. You
are talking about a country that has | 0:22:08 | 0:22:14 | |
been kept behind everyone else for
years and years. Now he is wanting | 0:22:14 | 0:22:20 | |
all of these changes. You cannot
imagine how much resistance there | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
was for the driving of women. There
still is. If you listen to people | 0:22:24 | 0:22:29 | |
talking about it, people are still
complaining, some people are not | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
happy with what the crown prince is
talking about. He has to fight all | 0:22:32 | 0:22:36 | |
that. But he is supported by all of
the young people of the country, who | 0:22:36 | 0:22:41 | |
have been travelling abroad, who
have studied abroad, you want to | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
find new jobs, who want to stop
travelling to other countries to | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
feel free. They want everything in
the country. Should people worry | 0:22:47 | 0:22:53 | |
that the Crown Prince may mean it,
but the forces of conservatism are | 0:22:53 | 0:22:57 | |
just too strong postmark
assassination, you could imagine a | 0:22:57 | 0:23:03 | |
number of things, couldn't you? --
are just too strong? I do worry. The | 0:23:03 | 0:23:13 | |
current generation has been on the
Internet, on social media for the | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
past 15 years. It is a very
different bedrock to people who have | 0:23:16 | 0:23:23 | |
tried reform before him. I'm not
concerned about the tailwind behind | 0:23:23 | 0:23:28 | |
him. I don't think there will be
that much resistance from the | 0:23:28 | 0:23:33 | |
establishment. I'm concerned about
the lessons that are learnt from the | 0:23:33 | 0:23:38 | |
last 30 years, as he refers to it, I
am afraid that those lessons will | 0:23:38 | 0:23:45 | |
not be learnt, in that there was
complicity on the half of the Royal | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
family to inject extremism and
radical language into the public | 0:23:48 | 0:23:55 | |
address of the country. Religious
language? Yes. This wasn't something | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
that was imposed by some disembodied
rich establishment, it was with the | 0:23:58 | 0:24:04 | |
full sanction and complicity of the
Royal family. To deny that was | 0:24:04 | 0:24:09 | |
something that they did and they
need to undo will be one of the big | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
tests. We are not talking about
democracy in 2030, are we, or is | 0:24:12 | 0:24:20 | |
that the ultimate vision? No. Let's
not get starry eyed. He is a | 0:24:20 | 0:24:27 | |
Democrat. Lots of people are getting
locked up for things they have said | 0:24:27 | 0:24:31 | |
on social media. It's not a
Western-style democracy, his aim, he | 0:24:31 | 0:24:35 | |
is aiming to liberate the economic
power of Saudi Arabia. To find jobs | 0:24:35 | 0:24:41 | |
for these millions of people pouring
out of schools and universities. The | 0:24:41 | 0:24:45 | |
risk is that there will be dark
forces gathering, people who don't | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
like what he is doing, and they will
remember what happened to the 1960s | 0:24:49 | 0:24:56 | |
moderniser. The Conservatives
opposed women's education, | 0:24:56 | 0:25:00 | |
television, he overruled them,
ultimately he was assassinated in | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
1975. God willing that isn't going
to happen. Yemen is a blot on the | 0:25:04 | 0:25:08 | |
Saudi copybook of a serious kind.
Should we trust a guy who is behind | 0:25:08 | 0:25:13 | |
that to be the reformer? You cannot
get everything you want from the | 0:25:13 | 0:25:19 | |
same person. You said Gorbachev.
Gorbachev did help in that way. At | 0:25:19 | 0:25:25 | |
the time it was not seem that way by
those in the soviet Union. You | 0:25:25 | 0:25:29 | |
always have to see everything. It's
going to be a mixed bag. OK. An | 0:25:29 | 0:25:37 | |
interesting one to watch. Thank you
all very much. | 0:25:37 | 0:25:39 | |
The government means business
when it comes to Brexit, | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
even if we are not quite clear
what exact line of business that is. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
Yet, it's real businesses that
will be on the front line of dealing | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
with any consequences. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:49 | |
In as far as a community can be said
to have a view on Brexit, | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
the business one has been
against it, or in favour | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
of the softer variants of it,
with a decent transitional period. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
And above all, there's no enthusiasm
for a no-deal outcome. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:02 | |
In fact, real concern at it. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:04 | |
But while they might want it,
businesses have to be ready for it. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:12 | |
-- But while they might not want it,
businesses have to be ready for it. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:16 | |
Helen Thomas has been finding
out what that entails. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
Before any big adventure,
it's wise to plan ahead. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:21 | |
Avoid getting left out in the cold,
go equipped for unexpected hazards. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
Preparation can be the key
to a successful trip. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:32 | |
The government can't quite
get its story straight on whether | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
no deal is a negotiating tactic,
or a real possibility. | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
We are seeking to get a deal. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:41 | |
That is by far and away
the best option. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:47 | |
The maintenance of the option of no
deal is for both the negotiating | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
reasons and sensible security. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
But with 17 months
to go, businesses are | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
starting to get ready. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
I think firms are preparing
for the possibility of no deal, | 0:26:56 | 0:26:58 | |
because it's a logical possibility. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:03 | |
I think they are still optimistic
that we will strike a deal, | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
because it's in everyone's interest
to do that. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
Particularly the larger firms, I'm
hearing more and more that they have | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
prepared contingency plans. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:13 | |
Some of them have
pressed a few buttons. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:15 | |
But what a number of them say to me
is, it's not one button, | 0:27:15 | 0:27:20 | |
a button every few weeks
as they adjust to new | 0:27:20 | 0:27:22 | |
assessment of the risk. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
This isn't really about whether
Brexit is good or bad for Britain, | 0:27:25 | 0:27:29 | |
it's about being ready for anything,
being prepared for a no deal Brexit. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:34 | |
Broadly, that means leaving
the EU in March, 2019, | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
without the kind of comprehensive
free trade agreement | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
the government says it wants. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:42 | |
But even that isn't clear-cut. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:47 | |
People happy for us to leave
without a deal concede we might need | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
some basic agreements to keep planes
flying, say, or to stop a meltdown | 0:27:50 | 0:27:54 | |
in financial contracts. | 0:27:54 | 0:28:00 | |
In finance, no deal means no access
to European markets. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:05 | |
That risks cutting off
an industry that accounts | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
for 12% of UK tax receipts,
but regulators have forced banks to | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
get on with their no deal planning. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:13 | |
What they've done is they've
looked at the various | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
locations across Europe,
decided which one is the best one | 0:28:15 | 0:28:17 | |
for them, so maybe a place
where they have existing operations, | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
maybe that there are
competitors there. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
They have started to acquire
a premises, so they've | 0:28:22 | 0:28:27 | |
got their offices,
they've started thinking | 0:28:27 | 0:28:28 | |
about the people they need
to move to those locations. | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
But crucially, they've started
to get the authorisations they need | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
to enable them to do
business in April, 2019. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:41 | |
Ingredients for Eisai's cancer
and epilepsy drugs crisscross | 0:28:41 | 0:28:45 | |
several borders before being made
in the UK for sale worldwide. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:47 | |
The rules say drugs
for sale in Europe must be | 0:28:47 | 0:28:50 | |
tested in an EU country. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:53 | |
So with no deal, Eisai,
a Japanese company, | 0:28:53 | 0:28:55 | |
needs a new facility. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
We can't afford to wait any longer. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
We're having to go out for tenders,
we're having to look to move that | 0:29:01 | 0:29:07 | |
part of the testing operation,
not the manufacturing, | 0:29:07 | 0:29:09 | |
but the testing to an EU member
state, and put things in place. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
Ensuring no disruption
to drug supply in 2019 | 0:29:12 | 0:29:14 | |
means spending money now. | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
We're talking many millions
of pounds to do this. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
This is something
which will have no gain. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:26 | |
Literally, it will mean
we are doing in April, 2019, | 0:29:26 | 0:29:28 | |
what we would have been doing,
shall we say, in February, 2019, | 0:29:28 | 0:29:31 | |
so there is no gain. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:33 | |
Money that could have been spent
for developing new medicines, | 0:29:33 | 0:29:40 | |
bringing new cures to patients. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:42 | |
Other industries are planning, too. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:45 | |
One car maker told us
their manufacturing setup might not | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
work in a no deal outcome. | 0:29:47 | 0:29:51 | |
It could need more parts on site,
and new storage facilities. | 0:29:51 | 0:29:53 | |
It might not be terribly
complicated, but rather | 0:29:53 | 0:29:55 | |
like the negotiations,
it all takes time and money. | 0:29:55 | 0:30:02 | |
There is another
source of uncertainty. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:05 | |
A transition period is meant to make
life easier for businesses, | 0:30:05 | 0:30:08 | |
giving them time to adapt,
but will it be agreed early | 0:30:08 | 0:30:10 | |
enough to be useful? | 0:30:10 | 0:30:15 | |
And even then, will it be certain
enough for businesses to hang | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
investment or hiring decisions on? | 0:30:18 | 0:30:28 | |
The longer it takes,
we will have lost time, | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
jobs and investment in the UK. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:40 | |
A drip-drip, if you like. | 0:30:40 | 0:30:41 | |
Our view is that the end
of the year is a key moment, | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
that if a transition agreement
on status quo terms could be secured | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
by then, we will keep jobs
and investment in the UK. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
But the real prize here
is the shape of the final deal. | 0:30:50 | 0:30:53 | |
They don't want an extension
of the cliff edge. | 0:30:53 | 0:30:55 | |
So the next thing that
would have to happen is, | 0:30:55 | 0:30:57 | |
the first half of next year,
all eyes on that final deal. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:00 | |
This week, the Prime Minister
suggested a transition agreement | 0:31:00 | 0:31:02 | |
could only come late next year. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
A bit of government backtracking
later, and don't panic, | 0:31:04 | 0:31:06 | |
it might land much only. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:07 | |
I wonder, is there anything here
that can unscramble mixed messages? | 0:31:07 | 0:31:12 | |
Helen Thomas there. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:16 | |
We did ask the department for
exiting the EU and the department | 0:31:16 | 0:31:19 | |
for international trade to join us
on the programme but | 0:31:19 | 0:31:21 | |
nobody was available. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:25 | |
Our political editor
Nick Watt is here, though, | 0:31:25 | 0:31:27 | |
Nick, you have some more details
tonight on how the government | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
is getting on with Brexit? | 0:31:29 | 0:31:33 | |
The government confirmed that the
committee stage will begin on the | 0:31:33 | 0:31:37 | |
14th of November, the joke doing the
rounds with the backbenches is the | 0:31:37 | 0:31:42 | |
government will put out a slew of
amendments to its own Bill to avoid | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
a Tory rebellion. Interesting, I was
talking to somebody close to the | 0:31:45 | 0:31:51 | |
whips, the feeling is they need to
reach out to Dominic grieve, the | 0:31:51 | 0:31:55 | |
former Attorney General, who is one
of the main potential rebels. It | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
looks like we may have a committee
of both houses to look at the | 0:31:58 | 0:32:04 | |
so-called Henry VIII clauses. He is
worried the changes could be made | 0:32:04 | 0:32:08 | |
without the government having a say.
It will be a committee. A traffic | 0:32:08 | 0:32:14 | |
light system. Another idea he has is
that it would bring back the | 0:32:14 | 0:32:18 | |
European Charter of fundamental
rights, that looks more difficult. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
So, friendly messages there, but the
word from the land of the whips is, | 0:32:21 | 0:32:26 | |
we're being nice to you, but we
don't have too, because we don't | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
believe the rebels have the numbers.
The rebels are saying they mean it, | 0:32:30 | 0:32:35 | |
they are serious. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:38 | |
Universities are feeling a bit
picked upon this week. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
One Tory whip appeared to be
inquiring about pro-Brexit | 0:32:40 | 0:32:43 | |
sympathies among the lecturers. | 0:32:43 | 0:32:44 | |
He denied it was an attack on free
thinking at colleges; but then | 0:32:44 | 0:32:47 | |
the Daily Mail today went in hard
on the idea that our universities | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
are a bastion of remainer resistance
to the popular will. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:52 | |
A kind of fifth column. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:54 | |
But would it matter anyway? | 0:32:54 | 0:32:55 | |
Do we need our academics to be
politically representative | 0:32:55 | 0:32:57 | |
of a population at large? | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
Possibly, you might say,
if academics are unaware | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
of their own biases. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
We'll argue about whether it
matters, but first a little | 0:33:05 | 0:33:07 | |
evidence on the subject,
from our policy editor Chris Cook. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:11 | |
It feels like a culture war is
underway in Britain. The Daily Mail | 0:33:13 | 0:33:18 | |
is clearly on one side, universities
are on the other. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:22 | |
You can see why the Mail is grumpy,
it's a phenomenon observed around | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
the world that, well,
students like dissent, | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
and more educated people
tend to skew more liberal. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:33 | |
You can see that
in the referendum results. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:36 | |
68% of graduates went for Remain,
but people with the most GCSE level | 0:33:36 | 0:33:40 | |
qualifications backed Leave
by similar margins. | 0:33:40 | 0:33:48 | |
There are a few threats to consider.
First, socialisation. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:50 | |
Students spent time with other
students, whose views are | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
to the left of the country at large.
So are those of their lecturers. | 0:33:53 | 0:33:58 | |
Here's a result of a poll from
around the 2015 election, showing | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
the relative support at that moment
of the four biggest parties. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:04 | |
And here's what things look like
just for higher education staff. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:08 | |
A lot more Labour and Lib Dem voters
are working on campus. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:12 | |
Second, universities are not
as a homogenous as they once were. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:19 | |
15% of academics are from
elsewhere in Europe, 16% of | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
research funding is from the EU,
the very internationalist bodies. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
Third, the consensus
in economics or Brexit | 0:34:25 | 0:34:27 | |
is that it will leave us poorer. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:29 | |
Now, the academics may be wrong,
and consensus can be afflicted | 0:34:29 | 0:34:31 | |
by groupthink and bias. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
But, by and large, academics
will only teach things | 0:34:35 | 0:34:37 | |
they genuinely believe to be true. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:45 | |
Well, with me is Steven Glover,
who wrote a column about this | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
for the Mail today,
and Professor Barry Smith | 0:34:48 | 0:34:50 | |
who lectures in philosophy
at the University of London. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:54 | |
Welcome, both of you. What was your
point today, Steven, the point of | 0:34:54 | 0:34:59 | |
the headline, our Remainer
universities, what was the fear | 0:34:59 | 0:35:05 | |
underlying? I don't write the
headlines, but the point was, there | 0:35:05 | 0:35:09 | |
are a lot of Remainers teaching at
our universities. And some of them | 0:35:09 | 0:35:16 | |
are probably putting pressure on
students to think... It is the | 0:35:16 | 0:35:21 | |
pressure on the students? There are
plenty of examples in today's Daily | 0:35:21 | 0:35:26 | |
Mail, universities sending e-mails
to students, exhortation is to | 0:35:26 | 0:35:36 | |
students to vote in a certain way.
And afterwards, other examples, | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
which at the worst involve bullying.
So I think it... It blew up because | 0:35:41 | 0:35:47 | |
a Tory MP wandered naively into a
new letter, that's how it blew up. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:55 | |
But it is a matter of public
interest that universities, which | 0:35:55 | 0:35:58 | |
are very good in this country, they
do tend to be very, very pro-remain. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:05 | |
Is it right that the fesses should
tell students how to vote? Is that | 0:36:05 | 0:36:11 | |
good practice, or advising them how
to vote? They should be putting the | 0:36:11 | 0:36:16 | |
arguments before them. When we hear
now from the Daily Mail that there | 0:36:16 | 0:36:22 | |
is a worry about so many university
professors being anti-Brexit, it | 0:36:22 | 0:36:27 | |
would be irresponsible not to be, if
they think they have arguments and | 0:36:27 | 0:36:30 | |
evidence to suggest it might be a
bad thing for this country. Is it | 0:36:30 | 0:36:34 | |
not that there may be biases and
prejudices of their own, which they | 0:36:34 | 0:36:42 | |
are teaching students? You might
lecture students and give them both | 0:36:42 | 0:36:47 | |
sides of the argument, or teach them
in a Broadway, but not profit | 0:36:47 | 0:36:51 | |
arising to students. We will have
two C. We have heard an act is ace | 0:36:51 | 0:36:59 | |
and there is anti-Brexit bias. We
have two wonder whether they are | 0:36:59 | 0:37:07 | |
hearing inconvenient truths. When I
hear people say, anti-Brexit bias, I | 0:37:07 | 0:37:11 | |
don't hear a lot of bottle of the
ordinance put forward in | 0:37:11 | 0:37:15 | |
universities. I hear argument is to
close down the discussion. The big | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
picture is, though, you are worried
because universities are more | 0:37:18 | 0:37:22 | |
left-wing than the population at
large. A lot of the copy in your | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
column was about left-wing voting,
rather than Remainers. If they are | 0:37:25 | 0:37:34 | |
pointed in a competitive way, does
it matter if they end up in quite a | 0:37:34 | 0:37:38 | |
different place from the population
who are less educated? Is that a | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
problem? It is true that
intellectuals probably, if you pick | 0:37:42 | 0:37:47 | |
100, 70-80 will be on the left. This
turns out to be true everywhere. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:56 | |
Students go to university to be
told, to be taught how to think. | 0:37:56 | 0:38:00 | |
That's the point of university. They
don't need a newspaper to be told | 0:38:00 | 0:38:07 | |
what happens. But your newspaper
goes further than that! The Daily | 0:38:07 | 0:38:11 | |
Mail, lots of newspapers say
different things, it is just a tiny | 0:38:11 | 0:38:15 | |
part of the media. But the average
professor, of course, has just one | 0:38:15 | 0:38:19 | |
voice, and there are lots of other
voices that affect students. Of | 0:38:19 | 0:38:26 | |
course, we don't know. I don't think
professors should be coerces and | 0:38:26 | 0:38:33 | |
should tell students how to vote, or
how they should think. Barry, I am | 0:38:33 | 0:38:39 | |
interested in the issue of biases.
Do you accent that group thinking, | 0:38:39 | 0:38:45 | |
confirmation bias, where you look
for information that supports your | 0:38:45 | 0:38:49 | |
view. Do you think these afflict
university teachers? They may do. We | 0:38:49 | 0:38:56 | |
teach it, we talk about it, we
expose it. Groupthink and the | 0:38:56 | 0:39:01 | |
consequences of that, and how it
might be set up are taught and | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
discussed in psychology. I think we
are aware of it some copies are, or | 0:39:04 | 0:39:11 | |
even government parties. The thing
we must be careful with is the idea | 0:39:11 | 0:39:17 | |
that our younger people, students at
university, are so impressionable, | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
so easily led, that if a university
professor has a view and expresses | 0:39:20 | 0:39:24 | |
it, they take it on immediately. If
you do accept that you have these | 0:39:24 | 0:39:29 | |
biases, it is quite interesting to
be told by a newspaper or a | 0:39:29 | 0:39:32 | |
government minister what kind of
prevailing views are. It may not be | 0:39:32 | 0:39:40 | |
McCarthy, let's just be aware, these
are the values you are starting | 0:39:40 | 0:39:44 | |
with, and there may be confirmation
biases. We need to ask that and look | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
at it. But look, most of the Cabinet
and most of the previous cabinet in | 0:39:48 | 0:39:53 | |
the Conservative government were
educated at universities. If they | 0:39:53 | 0:39:57 | |
are so left wing, I can't see the
effect of it seeping in. This may be | 0:39:57 | 0:40:04 | |
interesting, because people talk
about becoming more right wing and | 0:40:04 | 0:40:07 | |
Conservative as you get older. This
may be a phase they pass through. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:12 | |
Are you proud of Britain's
universities? Yes. Yes, I am. You | 0:40:12 | 0:40:17 | |
wrote about them this morning as
hysterical, patronising, elitist. | 0:40:17 | 0:40:22 | |
You don't sound very proud. What I
said was, the reaction was | 0:40:22 | 0:40:28 | |
hysterical. He has been called
Leninist, accused of censoring | 0:40:28 | 0:40:39 | |
universities, it was a
straightforward letter, completely | 0:40:39 | 0:40:41 | |
open, not perhaps very intelligent.
And the reaction... The official | 0:40:41 | 0:40:45 | |
point is, you are proud of our
universities. They're not perfect. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:51 | |
But if you look at the University
international league tables, Al | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
universities are good. Thank you,
both, very much. | 0:40:54 | 0:40:58 | |
That's about it for this evening. | 0:40:58 | 0:40:59 | |
But to leave you, Canadian artist
Stan Douglas has spent much | 0:40:59 | 0:41:02 | |
of his career exploring moments
that, in his words, | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
rupture the status quo. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:05 | |
In his latest exhibition,
on at the Victoria Miro gallery | 0:41:05 | 0:41:11 | |
Douglas has re-created
the London riots of 2011. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:13 | |
He chose images from the news,
flew a helicopter over the exact | 0:41:13 | 0:41:16 | |
locations and spent four months
digitally rendering the pictures. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:18 | |
The resulting large-format images
are incredibly detailed. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:20 | |
The idea is to get the viewer
to pause, and consider | 0:41:20 | 0:41:23 | |
how the people, the police
and objects are interacting. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
Take a look. Goodnight. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:35 |