With Evan Davis. Inside Queen Elizabeth's Hospital in Birmingham as winter approaches, Jared O'Mara, Annie Leibovitz, plus did Clinton dig the dirt on Trump?
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Try not to get sick this winter.
The NHS is overstretched as it is,
and will struggle to cope
with too much more.
The way that things have become
in A&E over the last two years,
we're at breaking point.
It can't carry on.
The queues on the corridor
and the situation
the patients are in, and
the department's in, it's unsafe.
Tonight, we go inside Queen
Elizabeth Hospital Birmingham
to see just what
the pressure is now.
And the chief executive
there is with is to explain
how bad it might get
as the peak season arrives.
We've heard a lot about
Trump and the Russians
allegedly digging the dirt
on Hillary Clinton last year.
It seems her campaign
was paying for dirt to be
found on Donald Trump.
Awkward? Or obvious?
We talk to her trusted
advisor, Sidney Blumenthal.
And from Trump, to the Queen,
Annie Leibowitz has
photographed them all.
I just thought,
"That's my photograph
of the President and First Lady."
It was a classic
Helmut Newton-style photograph
of Melania with Donald Trump,
sort of, as an ornament.
Hello. We are giving you
a forewarning of something
important tonight, a possible
impending crisis in the NHS.
Winter is coming,
and that is the busy season.
But strange things have been
happening to climate in the NHS,
there appears to have been
no summer, no quiet season.
It's operating at full pelt
through the year so we are heading
into winter without any slack,
and that could be catastrophic
for waiting times
over the next few months.
You will see what
I'm talking about in this film
made by Nick Blakemore,
documenting a slice of life
at Queen Elizabeth's Hospital in
Birmingham over a four day period.
Before you watch,
remember that while the NHS is
a caring human service,
it can also be seen
as a production line.
There is a flow of people
in and out of treatment
and the two have to match.
If the back end is clogged up,
the effects ripple back
through the system.
ED sister, can I help?
My name's Eve Gillepie,
sisters I'm one of the senior
sisters in the A&E Department
at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital.
So you've still got two
empty at the moment? Lovely.
As soon as we get some
space out here we'll
think about shoping some
people around, OK?
The way that things have become
in a A&E over the last two years,
we are at breaking point.
It can't carry on.
The queues on the corridor,
and the situation the patients
are in and the Department's
in, it's unsafe.
I slipped down the stairs,
and I think I broke my foot.
I'm in a lot of pain. Very bad.
You just don't expect to see
so many people, and you know,
people not having beds,
not being seen to by doctors.
It just feels like we're
in a third World country,
to be honest with you.
We're probably seeing 100 patients
more a day than we were a year ago.
Two or three patients
used to be stressful,
but over the last couple of years,
this is just an average day
that we would have
this many patients
on the corridor at one time.
And we're not even in winter yet.
No. No, sorry. Excuse me.
We're going into the emergency
department to see a gentleman
who's already been in the emergency
department for over eight hours.
So where are we going?
We're going to resus.
He needs to be in a bed
on our medical admissions unit.
We haven't been able
to find that space for him.
I think the delay
we've got is because we're
waiting for a side room.
So, is he going to be stable
enough to go into a side room?
He probably is, actually.
Year, I think if we can get him
a little bit more fluid.
The NHS is breaking at the seams.
The amount of people
who need the services
we can offer is growing,
and we just do not have the resource
to deal with that.
Although he's not full
resuscitation, I would expect him
to recover from this episode,
if that makes sense.
Thank you, Adam.
The reason we have people queueing
round the corners in the emergency
department is because the whole
system is stuck. We're congested.
There's nowhere for anybody to go.
If I can't discharge people
from the back end of the hospital,
so people needing the long-term care
because of lack of community
services, that means there's no beds
that come up on the acute wards.
Which means there's no beds coming
up on the medical admissions unit,
and that's why people are
stuck in A&E cubicles or even
on the corridor
in the emergency department.
Right, then, Bernard.
How are you feeling?
I'm knackered all the time.
I can't use energy up
doing anything else.
I've been a pain in the arse
on the ward, because I know I am,
because I'm blocking
a sick person's bed up.
And I know they can't do
anything else for me.
And you've been in hospital for,
it's about five weeks this time,
And because of you getting
so breathless, that's why we looking
for you to move into 24-hour care.
I must have had four
people come to talk to me.
I've been rejected by
all of them, because of this.
Because care homes don't normally
have built in oxygen.
Bernard's told us that
four different places have
turned him down so far.
And when I asked him
how that made him feel,
he pointed out that nobody actually
gives him the direct message
it's the staff come and assessing,
and they never actually say
to his face, "We don't want you."
I ain't bothered
snuffing it tomorrow.
I wouldn't do anything to help it.
I don't want reviving again.
I don't want to keep
I don't want to live whatever
the rest of my life is like this.
I'm going to leave you, all right?
Is that still hot?
Yeah. That's still warm.
That's still hot.
Can we start moving some people
down into rooms for me,
the one at the front into two.
The one behind into three.
And then we'll go in...
This chappie into two for me.
And the lady behind into three.
I've got cancer.
And what happened today?
I've been very weak.
And so, I had to get
in touch with relatives.
Who got in touch with
the doctors, and here I am.
I phone up every morning,
because we live a bit
of a way away from Frank.
And over the past few days,
he's become progressively weaker.
How do you feel about having
to wait in the corridor?
It's a sign of our times, isn't it.
I mean, they're under so much
pressure now from various things.
It's what you expect, really.
Ten years ago, I never once
nursed a patient in a corridor.
Never once had to shuffle people
around, and explained why
we were sending them out
into the waiting room.
It was easily managed
within the department.
Over the years,
especially the last two years.
The renal colic man can go into six.
It's just dreadful.
There's just no space for people.
Walk round and see if there's anyone
that can move out of cubicles,
so we can off-load the new ones.
So we asked you to
come here so we can complete
an assessment on your mother,
who is Vera Yates, yeah?
Date of birth,
the 30th of August, 1924.
advanced vascular dementia.
I won't be recommending continuing
health care at this moment in time.
Where does this leave
mum as far as her care?
It just means now that her care
will not be funded by health.
So shewill receive
£155.05 per week from the NHS
towards her care in a nursing home.
I have 30 beds on this ward.
Back in January, I had three
or four patients, possibly,
who had been on here for a few
weeks, most people are on here
for two or three weeks up the mess.
Now, I have at least ten patients
who are out on the social services
computer system waiting
for a long-term placement.
I'm getting people with
more challenging behavioural
problems on the ward.
They're people who find it hard
to find a care home that
can meet their needs.
Have you had a cup of tea
this afternoon, mum?
I think so.
You think so?
The overall process of moving
from where we are now to where mum
needs to be during the next
few weeks is just the concern
we have at the moment.
She's off now.
My background is, when you start
the process off, you create
a deadline, don't you.
I don't know whether that's there.
And I'm just concerned
that this thing will drag on.
QE alert phone.
Hi, trauma desk.
I'm ringing from A&E.
We're getting a code red through.
So if we could have...
By land. OK.
I'll call you back as soon as have
a hostel number and trauma name.
It's a 30-year-old male...
We've got no ITU beds
for the code red.
Which I'm addressing at the moment.
I'm going to have to pull someone
out of ITU into the beds...
To see the NHS as it is now,
I don't see it getting any better.
I don't know what
the answer is to it.
But in my eyes,
it's just going to get worse.
So, he's had agonal breathing,
they're worried cardiovascularly,
so agonal breathing was agitated.
It was a push bike.
A code red?
We've got a code red trauma call
in about 15 minutes.
A 30-year-old male.
I feel for the patients.
How long have we got?
I feel for the new nurses
coming through that have to work
in an emergency department
like this, to never have known it
how it was, it's a shame.
It just seems to be acceptable
to treat people on the corridor,
and you know, it's not dignified,
really, is it.
It's not the way we want
to treat our patients,
but we don't have a choice.
Heroic efforts to cope at Queen
That's how it feels at one
very large hospital, and we'll talk
to the chief executive shortly.
But I'm with our policy editor
Chris Cook, so let's get more
on the national picture.
Give us a wider sense of what's
going on in the emergency services
all over the country.
not alone, there is a structural
problem with A&E at the moment. At
the moment, what we look for in
A&Es, 95% of patients should be done
with within four hours of coming in.
This is the 95% mine, where they are
supposed to be, 2011-12. On the left
side of the graph, that is 2011
summer. There is a dip in the
They mostly at 95%.
a wobble in the winter and that is
it. The year after that, 2012-13,
there is a bigger wobble in the
winter, it takes longer to get back
to the line, but we are up there. In
the game for 95%. 2015-16 is a
different year. It starts lower. It
dives deeply, and doesn't really
recover. We lose a chunk of
performance this year, which we have
never got back. If we draw in the
line from last year, we can see the
server started lover, died really
low, pulled it back, but we are
going into this winter a long way
from where we are supposed to be.
That's A&E, hospitals do more than
A&E, what is the importance of the
accident and emergency?
the intrinsic and potent as health
providers, what you saw in the film
was an example of how they are
interconnected to everything else.
You can't run a good tip to
everything else. You can't run a
good 2-2 without good social care
and without other hospitals and
effective GPs. The measure of A&E is
helpful, it is a canary in the coal
mine, it helps us see the bigger
picture, the health of the health
Well, back in February
we showed you a film about
how they were coping
at Queen Elizabeth Hospital
And we spoke to Dame Julie Moore,
the woman in charge there.
She was candid about the problems.
But that was the end of winter,
so we have her back now
to see how the management is
coping with the pressure
we saw in the film.
Good evening to you. What is your
best case for this winter?
the film has really said it all,
that A&E is just a part of an
overall process. I'm slightly more
optimistic this winter because what
we have done, and this is a
relatively new building at the Queen
Elizabeth Hospital, is over the
summer, starting at the end of last
winter, we stripped out all the
nonclinical accommodation around the
A&E department which is due to open
next week or the week after to
create additional capacity but the
walls are not elastic, there's very
little else we can do. Rooms,
offices have all gone.
them into more warts?
More beds and
assessment areas and they will open
up next week.
That is one she
bucked the second is staffing. Even
if we could open up lots more
capacity, A&E is not proving to be a
popular profession for people any
more because of the pressures we
have just seen. I worry about how we
will staff them in the future.
does not have to be bad this winter
but what is the worst case because
we have heard worries about flu from
Australia and these kind of things,
what might you lose sleep over?
Well, it came out in the film that
one of the things that has really
changed in the past couple of years
is patients who are delayed in
hospital who no longer needed acute
medical care but can't get out into
the social care system or into other
NHS provision. Both of those are
causing delayed transfers that those
patients and we have seen that go
from average about 20 patients three
or four years ago to now in excess
of 71 and last year we lost 25,000
bed days to patients who don't need
to be there. I'm a bit more
optimistic at the moment because we
have a change in approach from the
executive leadership of our local
authority who are making good
strides, whether it will be enough
and in time, but it seems positive
moves about how we can help people
get to the right place more quickly.
This is about providing good care,
not just about beds.
on the delayed transfer of care
because when we spoke to in February
it was clearly a huge issue and the
government says it has provided £2
billion additional funding for
social care. Are you confident it
will make a difference, at least on
the blockage at the end of the
Well, what we have seen, we
work with quite a lot of local
authorities, mainly Birmingham and
Solihull, and Solihull has gone from
over 400 days lost to delayed
transfers of care in June to fewer
than 11 in September. With a
concentrated effort you can do that
and that has been magnificent, and
Birmingham, it started a bit later
because the new leadership team came
in later but they are doing similar
things so I'm confident we will see
some movement happening but I would
also want like to look at what the
There is a care issue in
the NHS as well.
continuing health care where people
have health care needs which are
assessed as belonging to the NHS and
one of the things that has been
particularly upsetting I think is
that when people want to go home to
die, they are assessed as needing
continuing health care and put on a
fast track system but in the past
six months alone, 75 people have
died in one of the hospitals I'm
responsible for, waiting for that
continuing health care.
So they have
died in hospital?
Rather than a
So the fast track system are
Sometimes it does,
There's a story in the Guardian
today suggesting the government will
pay people £1000 a month to take
someone in, to take them out of
hospital for recuperation. Does that
work, putting them in my spare
I'm not sure, it is
certainly an idea which has been
touted run before and people have
concerns about how you get the
individuals and check up on progress
and how you would monitor that but
at the moment, anything is worth a
Do you think we ever get back
to the A&E times of 95%? Basically
we are way off the target, 95% of
people seen in four hours is the
sign of a system that is working and
we are way off it.
One of the things
that is quite difficult is how you
measure this so if you bring in a
system to improve care for patients,
for example, we saw patients coming
through the emergency department who
could have more appropriately gone
to someone else so the man who came
in and said he had cancer, we've set
up an acute oncology units are
people bypass the emergency
department and go straight to the
ward. You can't count those in the
numbers going through the emergency
department and if you start trying
to count in all the other pathways
you put in to try to speed things up
a patience, you get closer to it but
we don't consistently measure it. If
you provide care outside of
hospital, so people don't come
through the emergency department,
again... We are not always measuring
the same thing.
OK. We have talked
about people coming out of the
system into care or whatever they
need. The numbers coming in is
another part of the problem your
staff were talking about. There are
more people coming in. Is it a
problem with GPs or population
growth or what?
I don't think it is
so much a problem with GPs because a
lot of the patients there really
needed to be in, it is not something
GPs could necessarily deal with. It
is a symptom of we are living
longer, longer with more diseases
and we have seen a 16% rise in the
emergency departments at the Queen
Elizabeth in the past two years
which is a massive increase by
anyone's imagination. As I said at
the start, the walls are not elastic
and we don't have all the staff in
the world so we will do what we can
to do that but we have do have the
whole hospital system working
What would it take to go
back to the good old days? Chris
showed us the picture when there was
a bit of a dip in winter but it was
basically 95%. What would it take?
So far, you have not presented is
usually grim picture of this winter,
actually rather better than some
other doctors I have heard talking
about the prospects. But what would
it take to go back to a kind of well
functioning system that met the
We have not got enough
capacity, bedsore staff and that is
what we need to focus on.
Alternatives to hospital care are
great and we need to do that but at
the moment, a lot of the patients
need to be in hospital. We need to
train a lot more staff as well. One
of the other problems, why there are
problems with delayed transfers of
care is it is quite difficult to
staff the nursing homes and
certainly for us to be able to
afford the nursing homes, to get
people to provide care at home. We
don't value caring as an occupation
very much in this country. Often,
some of the carers are paid minimum
wage or just above when actually, it
is one of the most important jobs
you can do and we need to value it
far more highly.
Dame Julie Moore,
they give very much and thank you
for letting us into film in the
hospital. -- thank you very much.
The Labour MP Jared O'Mara has been
suspended by the party while it
investigates numerous allegations
of misogyny and homophobia,
mostly but not all rather old.
The question the Labour Party has
found itself asking today though,
is less about O'Mara himself,
more about its procedures
for selecting candidates.
I'm joined by Nick Watt,
our political editor.
We should say, he was not expecting
to win, he was kind of what they
call a paper candidate, shoved on
the ballot, never dreams of winning
and ending up in Westminster.
imported to say white Labour
suspended in today because a website
revealed he'd made some really
offensive remarks this year and the
significance of that is in a lengthy
apology to the Parliamentary Labour
Party, on Monday night he said he'd
make those kind of remarks many
years ago and he'd been on a journey
but what is interesting is that
Labour's National executive
committee is looking at how they
selected Jarrod O'Mara. As you say,
it was last minute, snap election
and the National executive committee
in those circumstances use the rules
where you select by-election
candidates and they run the process.
They did not interview him.
Know and there was a cursory look at
his social media and they are
essentially saying, how can we make
sure we don't do this again? For
example, Newsnight understands they
will be selecting 75 Labour
candidates between now and Christmas
and making sure, remember, they did
not expect to get Sheffield Hallam,
those kind of Skeet -- seats, they
will have a more robust process.
Meanwhile in Brexit land, we have
this bill which has been sitting
around, the withdrawal bill, which
has been in the sidings for a bit
and it's got to come out, they have
to put it to parliament.
strong expectation the committee
stage will begin on the 14th and
15th of November, tee days per week
for four weeks which means it should
be done by Christmas. There's been a
lot of discussion about the
government in negotiation with Tory
rebels but I understand one of the
big stumbling blocks has been over
devolution and the need to reach an
agreement with the devolved bodies.
I understand a cabinet meeting last
Tuesday, a rather sombre meeting,
David Mundell, the Scotland
Secretary, said, "We've got to get a
legislative consent motion from the
Scottish Parliament. The Scottish
Parliament has got to take this".
Intense talks have been under way.
There is a hope there will be a deal
that will mean that Holyrood will be
able to say it is OK but a sign of
how important that is, if there were
a vote at Holyrood tomorrow, the
expectation is that Ruth Davidson
and the Scottish Conservatives would
not be able to give their consent to
the bill. But there is not going to
be a vote tomorrow and there are
lots of negotiations and big
confidence there will be a deal.
Thank you for joining us.
You remember the dossier
on Donald Trump.
It emerged in a leak
in January, and had been
compiled by a British agent
called Christopher Steele.
It was the one with some salacious
allegations involving Trump's
behaviour in a Russian hotel.
Well, the Washington Post has
uncovered something interesting.
Mr Steele was ultimately
being partly paid by
Hillary Clinton's campaign.
The dossier made headline news,
even though most media outlets felt
uncomfortable spelling out
all the allegations.
The thrust of it was
that the Russians might have some
serious dirt on President Trump,
so-called Kompromat, thus
potentially compromising his policy
towards President Putin.
Are you sure Russia was behind
I mean, maybe.
But are you
really, really sure?
It was China.
It hit the public domain
after the election,
but its existence had been the talk
of many in Washington prior to that.
We knew it had been paid
for by supporters of Clinton,
just not that the campaign itself
and the Democratic
The Washington Post says
that the campaign lawyer paid
a company which then hired Steele
to do the research.
But many have been critical
of President Trump's son who met up
with a Russian offering tempting
dirt on Hillary.
No Democrat thought it expedient
to explain that the Democrats
were themselves indirectly hiring
a foreigner to dig up dirt on Trump.
Sidney Blumenthal is
long-time advisor to both
Bill and Hillary Clinton,
and joins me now from Washington DC.
Good evening. So much going on in
American politics but I want to
start with this dossier. Did you
personally know that the campaign
was partly financing it and its
Erm, I did not but it was
fairly well known last year that
without knowing exactly, that there
were Democratic donors who were
paying for this investigation into
the Russian intervention into the US
presidential election, which
subsequently, all US intelligence
agencies concurred and was done in
order to help elect Donald Trump.
And they found in hiring Christopher
Steele, the most professional and
credible person they could, who also
held the trust of the FBI and had
worked on dozens of investigations
with the FBI, and he has turned over
his material long ago to the FBI
counterintelligence unit, which is
now investigating it and has in turn
turned the material over to the
special prosecutor, Robert Muller,
the former director of the FBI.
lot of people looking at this will
say, really, this is both sides
digging up dirt. Possibly Donald
Trump did it better than Hillary
Clinton because he had a stash of
e-mails, or there was a stash of
e-mails but both sides were doing
it. It is kind of dragging American
politics into which both parties are
bad or -- as bad as each other.
is unprecedented that an anniversary
foreign power, in this case, Russia,
intervened in the presidential
election in order to determine its
outcome. We have learned since
Christopher Steele's dossier became
public that there was a lot more to
those active measures, including
exploitation extensively of social
media and we are going to see on the
1st of November testimony before
congressional committees of the
heads of Google and Facebook about
that. So this is a major issue
involving the tech companies,
American political life, the future
of our democracy and how Donald
Trump became president.
Donald Trump Jr went to see a
Russian lawyer who said, "I've got
dirt on Hillary Clinton", it was
only because she was Russia and that
there was a problem with that.
People said it was terrible he
accepted such an invitation when in
fact in your view, it was only
because she was Russian and it is
fine to get dirt on the opponent.
Well, let's see what Robert Muller
determines about that incident and
how he sorted out. I believe that
Donald Trump is panicked about the
investigation conducted by Robert
Mueller, and it is very tightly
held, there are no leaks from it. He
has all this material. He will
determine its validity and
credibility and he has much more
material than simply be Christopher
Steele dossier. He has intercepts of
Trump associates with Russians and
he now has, through subpoenas,
documents, e-mails, phone
conversations and he has begun to
gather testimony. So let us wait and
see what Mr Mueller does but I think
we can detect in the creation of
conspiracy theories on the part of
Donald Trump, nothing new, a whiff
Let's talk about the
Republicans because something rather
interesting happened yesterday with
Senator Jeff Flake making an
impassioned speech that he had given
up and Constable Donald Trump. He
obviously thinks he has calls and
American politics. Did you see that?
I know you are a Hillary Clinton
supporter but did you see that as an
important moment, if you like, in
the revolution of the Republican
party and how it relates to drop?
Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona's
speech, which was extraordinary,
yesterday, on the floor of the
Senate, denouncing Donald Trump on
every level and calling him indecent
and a threat to our democracy,
unprecedented from a member of one's
own party. It was not the only
speech making these points. There
was Senator Bob Corker, the chairman
of the foreign relations committee,
Saint Donald Trump is a threat to
national security. There was the
speech of former President George W
Bush, making all of these speeches
about the destruction of civil
society by Donald Trump, without
naming him. And there were the
comments and the speech of Senator
John McCain, who was a former
Republican presidential candidate,
and who is critically ill and feels
unbound, now, to say whatever is on
his mind. So we have four
distinguished Republicans now
stepping forward, making a
consistent case about Donald Trump
and what we are seeing is a party
that is fracturing before our eyes.
Sidney Blumenthal, thank you.
For some, Annie Leibovitz is most
famous as the photographer who took
portraits of the Queen ten years
ago, and who unwittingly featured
in a BBC documentary film scandal
in which footage was edited
to falsely look as though the Queen
had stormed out in a huff.
It would be a pity if that's
all you know of Leibovitz, though.
Her portraits are highly valued
by subjects and viewers alike,
from the beautifully
intimate, to lavish,
And a new book of them
has just been published -
Portraits 2005 to 2016.
Odd title, as some of there
are actually portraits from years
either side of those dates.
But when I sat down with Annie
Leibovitz I didn't ask about that.
We talked about some
of her photos, and inevitably,
the politics behind them.
let's start with Hillary Clinton,
because you'd planned to finish
the book, so to speak,
with a portrait of Hillary Clinton
in the White House.
Yeah, it was almost worse than that.
I actually really
thought about doing the book,
a good reason to do the book
at this time, and that time was just
literally over a year ago,
not that long ago, was with the idea
that it would end with
Hillary Clinton, which would be,
you know, sort of a beginning.
I imagined Hillary Clinton,
you know, in the Oval Office
and that was my ending.
Let's just say...
When it didn't happen, when she
was not elected and, you know...
I really thought about
not doing the book.
It was just topsy-turvy,
you know, I mean, this kind
of amusing character,
you know, became the President
of the United States
and this woman who had
all the credentials, all...
Should have been the President
of the United States.
It was a big blow.
What was interesting is,
you've got a picture
of Hillary in the book.
It's not at the end, it's a picture
of her as Secretary of State.
It was a tough decision about...
You know, as I was finishing
the book, I had pictures
of Hillary Clinton on
the campaign trail, and you know,
I had a photograph of Obama,
you know, literally his last day
in office, in the Oval
Office, and it looked...
And that's how the book
was ending and it looked sad.
I did not want it to look like we...
That Hillary lost, you know.
And so on purpose, I kept
Hillary at work, during that period
of the Obama administration.
You've got an extraordinary
picture of Donald Trump
and Melania in the book.
Yes, very pregnant.
Tell us the story of that.
Well, the elements were there.
It's not like...
We were supposed to meet them
on the tarmac, I think
they were on their way back
to New York, the plane was there.
You know, basically,
in the stairway, the back entrance
to the Trump aeroplane,
you know, the motors on both sides.
I just thought, "That's my,
that's my photograph
of the President and first Lady".
Sorry, we're going back to the early
2000s, now, so it's...
Yes, so this is very...
It's not as president.
No, it's not as president, no, no.
But it tells you who they are.
There's a gold bathing suit.
Helmut Newton used to get clothing
that was always like a size
too small for the person,
so it always looked like it was
going up their bottom or whatever.
So it was, it was a classic,
you know, kind of, you know,
Helmut Newton-style photograph
of Melania, sort of with...
You know, Donald Trump
as sort of an ornament.
You've obviously not a fan
of Donald Trump as president.
Do you have to like
the people you take?
I mean, you...
You know, we're not...
I personally have this issue
where I, I think it's a weakness
in my work where I do like to
admire and like people I photograph.
But that, that's not the nature
of my work in the long run.
I believe you should be able
to photograph people you don't like.
But you never make
any of them look bad.
I suspect you sometimes,
you pick up the vanity
or the grandeur they think
of themselves with but you don't...
I think if...
You know, I think that old saying,
"If you give some enough rope,
they hang themselves",
I think that actually is really
very, very true in this work.
Now talking about
There's a picture of
Harvey Weinstein, Bob Weinstein,
with their mother, actually,
again going back to the early 2000s.
Yes, and because
this book is so new, it just
just came out, I'm like, "Oh, my
God, Harvey Weinstein's in there!"
Erm, but, I stand by
the photograph in some ways
because he is with his...
You know, I think this idea
of putting him and his
brother with their mother.
It's poignant, actually.
There's a subconscious aspect
there of bringing him down to size,
basically, you know,
with his small mother
standing in front of him.
I think it says a lot.
Did... It's become
a very common question
to everybody in this,
your circle, I mean,
did you know, had you heard much
about Harvey Weinstein?
I, I didn't know the, the details.
That all of this is coming
to the surface is so long overdue
and, and that we are,
as a society, recognising,
you know, all of this.
I mean, I, I haven't had...
You know, the most
You know, I've seen him more
as a bully, you know,
in a couple of instances,
and you know,...
You know, actually said I would not
work on any of his sets any more.
But I didn't know
about any of his, erm...
The sexual predation
was a different thing?
There was one woman who has,
there's no shortage of pictures of,
of course, Queen Elizabeth.
And you got a really quite
extraordinary and wonderful picture
of her with Princess Anne
in an incredibly...
It makes me cry, that picture.
I love it because it feels...
I feel out of all the photographs
I've taken, it's not a great
photograph but it's a very genuine
look or feel from Queen Elizabeth.
And I think they were very happy,
you know, to be together
in that photograph.
Interestingly, that was of course
the second time, and she must have
liked you because she would not have
sat for you a second time if she
didn't appreciate the first time.
One thinks when you have
that opportunity, it is never
going to happen again so when
it came up again, it was very...
Very humbling and amazing.
And she, she's
such a willing subject.
I mean, this is just,
the other thing is, imagine sitting
for Lucien Freud and that
very strange painting, and,
you know, when I look
at all the sittings she does,
she basically understands
that she is the muse
and she is to sit there
and be interpreted in as many
different ways as possible.
And, erm, she goes along with it.
I mean, she's totally giving herself
over to, to your vision.
You don't like being called
a celebrity photographer.
No, I can't stand that word.
I just, it just sounds cheap to me.
I feel like I'm in a long-standing
tradition of portrait photographers,
especially in these edits
of these books.
The work is really, erm,
hopefully you can see our time.
It is a story, you know,
about our time, the people that,
you know, are making our time
and do things...
My portraits are about people who,
who either have achieved something
or, or are doing something
that matters, or...
An upbeat note to end.
lovely to talk to you.
OK, thank you.
Thank you very much. Thanks.
That's almost it.
We leave you with the man
who was hailed by Elvis Presley
as the true King of Rock and Roll,
Fats Domino, who died
yesterday at the age of 89.
Here he is way back in 1956.
# Ain't that a shame
# My tears fell like rain
# Ain't that a shame
# You're the one to blame
# Oh well, goodbye
# Although I cry
# Ain't that a shame
# My tears fell like rain
# Ain't that a shame
# You're the one to blame...#
In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Evan Davis.
Inside Queen Elizabeth's Hospital in Birmingham as winter approaches, Jared O'Mara, Annie Leibovitz, plus did Clinton dig the dirt on Trump?