24/10/2017 Newsnight

The government wants to be remembered

The problem is that for many, it's only being remembered

for botching up the introduction of Universal Credit.

If Universal Credit is not changed, we'll have some real tragedies

It just simply isn't possible for people to

fend off absolute chaos if they've got no money at all.

It'll roll out to seven million families in the next five years.

Labour's shadow welfare secretary wants a pause,

Jac Holmes went from Bournemouth to Syria to fight IS.

Now he's been killed after the City fell.

We'll hear from a friend who also left the UK,

He says he bankrolled Brexit, he certainly put some pounds into UKIP.

Hello. There's no point in having a great idea

with a plan and a blueprint, lots of fancy marketing,

if you then completely screw up the implementation.

Well, MPs debated the government's flagship welfare policy -

Universal Credit - again today, and the overriding

question is whether it falls into that category of

It's a big reform, a simplifying one, six benefits merged into one.

But the simple fact is, that for too many people

for whom it is designed, it isn't working.

Basically, the transition period, I think people will find it quite

difficult, because you obviously have to go online and sign

up to Universal Credit, and then they give you the appointment

at the Job Centre, which takes about two weeks.

So, you can't apply for the advance payment until you have that

interview with the guy at the Job Centre.

But, within that time, I obviously had no money,

so I had to rely on family and friends to help me out, and then

when I did actually get the advance payment,

I had to pay back some of the family and friends,

with that payment, so yeah, I mean, it is hard.

They do make it quite difficult for you, you have to do everything

online, you have to phone a number, that's not free, so I had to go

to the Citizens Advice Bureau to make the phone call and stuff.

Ironically, the government set out ideas to help people in debt today,

and yet, Citizens Advice say that the government's

own Universal Credit is itself forcing people into debt.

It's not just the seven day waiting period when you apply,

or the fact, after seven days, you then have a month of assessment

before getting payments; it's also the lack of help

It is as though the benefit is administered for the convenience

of the provider, rather than the recipient.

Well, Universal Credit has been a huge controversy in Westminster,

many MPs have faced the wrath of constituents

Which is why it came up yet again today.

Our political editor Nick Watt has been looking at the pressure

I'm going to have to ask you to leave... In motive, painful and

politically toxic. Welfare reform is perilous for politicians of all

hues. Run the mouse up the screen. Not like that... The Ken Loach film

I, Daniel Blake, struck a chord. With its betrayal of an uncaring

system. Universal Credit, this government's

flagship welfare reform joins a long list of troubled projects, delayed

by years, are set by technical hitches, and challenged on the Tory

benches, but it limps on. I think if Universal Credit is not

changed, we will have some real tragedies happening in our society.

It just simply isn't possible for people to be able to stay in their

accommodation if they are in the private sector, to fend off absolute

chaos if they've got no money at all. Today, the government found

itself defending Universal Credit in the second parliamentary debate in a

week. In every phase and in every respect, the development of

Universal Credit has been all about enhancing the way it helps you get

into work, and get on in work. Already, Universal Credit is

transforming lives, and we want more families to benefit from the

satisfaction, from the self-esteem, and from the financial security that

comes from progressing to a job, a better job and a career.

So just what is Universal Credit? It was first piloted in 2012, was meant

to be fully up and running by this year, and fully rolled out by 2022.

Essentially, it rolls six in work and out of work benefits into one

simpler system. Also, it aims to encourage work by ensuring that

claimants receive more take home pay if they work extra hours.

There is deep frustration in Downing Street that Universal Credit is

under constant attack, because ministers feel it is a highly

progressive reform, thanks to the way in which it in centre rises

work. The Work and Pensions Secretary David Gauke believes he is

involved in something of a rescue mission to salvage this landmark

reform. In his eyes, many of today's problems were caused by the failure

of the architect of the scheme, Iain Duncan Smith, to appreciate the vast

challenge of introducing such a wide-ranging reform.

David Gauke is not giving much away at the moment, but Downing Street is

looking seriously at implementing the main demand by Tory backbench

critics to reduce the initial payment period from six weeks to

four, or to abolish the so-called seven waiting days, in which no

benefits are paid in the first week. If the government is feeling

particularly ambitious, it could look at two further reforms,

allowing people to earn more before their benefits first start being

reduced. This would be juiced George Osborne's cup to the worker

allowance, costing around ?2 billion. Changing the rate at which

benefits are reduced as someone earns more money, the Chancellor cut

the tape rate from 65 to 63% in the budget. Some Cabinet ministers want

this to go down to 60%. This would cost around 500 million per

percentage point cut. One of the main Tory backbench critics says the

government will have two move. With Universal Credit, it is a cobbler

Kate did benefit. I pick everybody will blame everybody else. My

understanding is a huge number of people leading the project lost

their jobs, some resigned and some couldn't cope. The problem is, for

me, the waiting time of six weeks, we want it reduced to four rates,

and we want to see the table rate reduced. Step-by-step, the

government is pressing ahead with Universal Credit. The challenge is

to ensure that the eventual merits of the system will overcome memories

of its troubled birth. We did ask the government to join us

tonight but nobody was available. However, with me

are Debbie Abrahams, Labour's Shadow Secretary of State

for Work Pensions. And Edward Boyd, Managing Director

of Centre for Social Justice, and a former advisor

to Iain Duncan Smith. Thanks, both, for coming in. Can we

get a bit detailed, because it is quite interesting. Let's start with

this every -- seven-day period. You apply and nothing happens for seven

days. It should go. We have been clear that at least a week should be

removed. The government said they wanted to have a system that

replicated real life in terms of work and waiting for a month before

you got your first support, but this is more than that in six weeks.

This... This is the sum of the six weeks and seven days. What was the

thinking? When we originally designed this, there was no

seven-day weight. I will agree on this. I don't think any government

of any cover is thankful reforming welfare. Labour trying to bring in

tax credits in 2003, or this government with Universal Credit,

one thing everyone is missing is, when this is fully rolled out, the

estimate is 300,000 more people will be in work. That was based on 2014 -

15 data. That is disingenuous to say that,

Ed. 300,000 before, and that data rolled out past any changes the

government has made. It is still a massive effect. We have got from

you, and admission, you would get rid of the seven-day waiting period.

It saves 140 million, there was a Russian now that people out of work

for a short period of time would need benefits, but it is not the

right thing. Next one, it is not the first seven-day waiting period, but

paying people monthly in arrears. That one is training you to have the

benefit system aligned with the way work works. The figures published

yesterday showed that people on the lowest incomes, a quarter are paid

weekly or monthly. Weekly or fortnightly. We want to have

alternative pay arrangements that are offered to everyone, not the

obscure arrangement in guidance we have now that nobody seems to know

what to do about, everybody has a chance to have alternative pay

fortnightly, also, it doesn't go to a single householder, which happens

at the moment, which is predominantly men. It is

discriminatory against women. It should be split, if that is an

option. The housing element can go directly to the landlord. Ed, when

you designed paying people a month in arrears, was that a problem or is

it a feature of the system you devised? It is a positive thing.

When rolled out, 7 million or 8 million will be on Universal Credit.

Several will be in work. The overwhelming majority will be paid

monthly to make sure that Universal Credit works with being in work, you

had to have them working. If you have benefit pay fortnightly or

separate from that, your earnings will go up and down, and be very

difficult to manage your income. For those people, it works well.

Foremost, it does, but people that struggle managing money for a month,

and there are reports of quite a view, they are used to getting money

which they spend. It may sound patronising, but that is what

everybody says is the fact. You say that. I am worried we will argue

about data, but 3% of jobs are paid fortnightly in the UK. It is a tiny

proportion of people who are paid at that level. This is where Universal

Credit is revolution every. Instead of saying, you can't budget well, so

we will adapt the system to you. It says that you can make sure that you

can get a budget advance if you need it. It is about changing someone's

life. If you can't manage money well, we will help you get

somewhere. It is transformational. The principal... No, no, that is not

fair. The principal, we support, but what Ed is describing isn't there.

The principles about simple vacation and ensuring work pay, getting into

work, progressing to work, that doesn't happen. Then we have the

administrative clock ups. Good idea, badly executed? I mentioned at the

outset about single householder, the fact it is only paid monthly, we

also have the fact that severe disability premiums weren't

transferred across. The most severely disabled people are about

?3200... I could go on. Some people are worse off. But when you devised

it, you weren't quite as mean as it has turned out to be. If you going

to do something as ambitious as that, doesn't it make sense to spend

money on it and make it work in the early days, rather than having it

discredited by penny-pinching? We invented it slightly more generously

than it is now. The first important point before that to say, if you

look at all the data in amongst all the changes, people are more likely

to be in work and earning more money under this system rather than the

old system. It is not perfect, but it is better... Some groups say.

With different family structures, that is not always the case. Single

parents are definitely worse. A single-parent nurse, I had, she had

a six-week delay, the red arrears notice when I went to see her. I can

respond to that, briefly, with single parents, you can take a case

study like that, but on the whole, if you are a single-parent with two

kits, under the old system, working 16 hours, the new system has 63%. We

are getting the dazzled with numbers. We will see if the

government reforms on this in the next few days. Thank you both very

much. Jac Holmes, a 24 year old man

from Bournemouth who went to join Kurdish forces in the fight

against so-called Islamic State Just a week after the liberation

of the city, he was reportedly helping to clear the city of mines

and explosives when he was killed. Mr Holmes had been fighting Isis

off and on since 2015. He appeared in a television

interview as recently as last month, speaking in Raqqa to the BBC's

Quentin Sommerville. This isn't your country,

it's not your war, why are you here? I think the fight against

Daesh is everyone's war. There's Daesh all over Europe,

especially in England, and we need to stop them here and in Iraq,

or they're going to spread. Well, he was fighting with the YPG,

a Kurdish force, which is a big part of the SDF,

the Syrian Democratic Forces. Another British man

who had gone out to fight He spent a lot of time

in Syria with Mr Holmes - and I spoke to him earlier

from a YPG base on the I have known Jac Holmes for three

years now. I met him on the very day he arrived in Syria, in 2015. And I

have known him ever since. He was a passionate humanitarian. He cared

very deeply about Syria. And he was someone that had a real hatred for

Isis and everything based at four. What do you know of what happened

yesterday that took Jac's life. Temporary map was pulling security.

While they were clearing buildings, forcing civilians to return home,

and unfortunately there was a suicide vest that had been missed.

That was hidden, and left behind by the Islamic State.

And it was in a very volatile state, and it detonated

Obviously, the battle for Raqqa was over, what were his plans?

He's been fighting now, for three years.

He's been a very passionate advocate for solidarity

with the Kurdish people, with the Syrian people,

and he's been pushing for the British government to do

more to help the SDF in solidifying their games,

and actually injecting some humanitarian invade, and investment

The only way he could do that was by coming home

and sharing his experiences, talking about what he did

And really, to explain really what he was doing there.

The fact that the battle for Raqqa was over, and he was getting ready

to return makes this terribly, terribly tragic, doesn't it.

Yeah, it's a devastating blow for the international volunteers,

and for all the people volunteering here, both on the humanitarian side

He cared a lot about democracy, about people.

The Yazidi people were very close to his heart.

And his death has been a huge blow to us all.

Coming just as we have liberated Raqqa at the end

of his last tour in Syria, it shows you how dangerous

the Islamic State is, how terrible their legacy mines are,

and how we really need to invest in the country,

and Detry start rebuilding in a much more positive way than we are

and actually start rebuilding in a much

more positive way than we are

Give us a sense, if you would come of that battle for Raqqa

and the role the international fighters had in it.

The battle for Raqqa was incredibly, incredibly dangerous.

It was a war of attrition, there were a lot of snipers,

there were a lot of minds being used very effectively.

I mean, the Americans, for the first time, have invested

I heard more bombs fall on Raqqa them all the bombs that I have

It was extraordinary, real shock and awe.

But at the same time, I personally was overwhelmed

And really what the foreign volunteers have achieved as well.

The British Foreign Office do not recommend that people go out

They are always saying this is a very, very

No regrets that you went out there, despite what we now know,

the terrible, terrible losses of comrades and friends.

I've never regretted the morality of what I've done,

I came out here as a humanitarian, as someone who is a humanist,

And when I came out in 2014, when Jac came out in 2015,

there was no help coming from the international community.

There were no jets in the sky, there was no military

support on the ground, very little humanitarian support

So we've seen a massive change over the last three years.

And I hope, in some small way, that the international volunteers

have shown the world that internationalism is still very

strong, that solidarity and compassion is still

But you are now on your way home now?

I am indeed on my way home to my family.

But for me, only half the battle is done.

I am going to go straight home, and I'm them to tell people

what I have been doing out here, why I have been here,

and what the options are for the future, cause Assad

I would hope that the SDF is now the Democratic opposition to asset

I would hope that the SDF is now the Democratic opposition to Assad

and we finally have a plan for peace in Syria.

One of Nigel Farage's good personal and political friends

He's not a household name, but he is a big player

on the populist right of UK politics.

He was there with Nigel Farage when he met Donald Trump just

after the US election; he has a feisty presence on Twitter

and he's a vocal critic of the BBC's Brexit coverage.

He made his money in insurance and he spent some of it on UKIP

and then on the Leave.EU campaign, the unoffocial brexit campaign,

and then on the Leave.EU campaign, the unoffocial Brexit campaign,

His book chronicling the exploits of that campaign -

the Bad Boys of Brexit - is now, apparently, being made

The narrative is he's not really a bad boy at all -

but a patriot prepared to play dirty to save his country.

But has Banks been taking some artistic license with the truth?

John Sweeney reports - but not from Hollywood.

Arron Banks started on the long road to Hollywood back in 2014,

when he reacted to a put-down by top Tory William Hague,

When I woke up this morning, intending to donate ?100,000

to Ukip, I understand that Mr Hague called me a nobody?

So, in light of that, I decided today to donate ?1 million

to the party and not the 100,000 we originally agreed.

I was hoping that Mr Hague will now know who I am.

I think after this lot, he might just do!

This is the moment Arron Banks first entered public life.

I am a self-made person, I made my money from a desk

But with Mr Banks' businessman, or political high roller,

what you see is not quite what you get.

His manor is mortgaged and Mr Banks does not live here,

it is a wedding venue, owned by one of his companies.

Arron Banks is a multimillionaire with a jet set lifestyle.

He is made out to be a bit like Blofeld and this

It is somewhere near Bristol and it is handy for the house

Bought for around ?900,000 and with ?500,000 on the mortgage.

Arron Banks owns Eldon, a car insurance brokerage registered here.

Go Skippy.com, cheaper car insurance.

He hopes to float Eldon's parent group for 250 million quid.

A valuation that got him into The Sunday Times Rich List.

Banks claims Eldon will make ?24 million profit this year,

up from only 300,000 last year, should we believe it?

If you move from less than half a million profit in one year

to 24 million the next year, I wish every other company could do

that, but it is really quite big by any standard.

A phenomenal turnaround, I would say.

Arron Banks told Newsnight that the ?250 million valuation is

He says new AI, artificial intelligence tech is

But there has been trouble with Eldon's numbers in the past.

They said a breakdown in the relationship has occurred

because by failing to supply accurate information,

management is imposing a limitation of scope on our work.

Not so, says Mr Banks, the auditors resigned

Banks also has an insurance underwriting business,

It seems to pay out more in claims and expenses

When we look at the Gibraltar market as a whole the year ending 2015,

on average, the market takes in a pound a premium and pays out

If you look at the largest five motor insurance

companies in Gibraltar, they only pay out 92p

in claims and expenses, so 8p in every pound

that they generate is moved towards profit.

For Southern Rock, they pay out ?2.86p for every ?1

So that is nearly three times as much as Southern Rock

Mr Banks' lawyers told us we had drawn serious

On Southern Rock, they said this comparison is not an indicator

that is applied to or appropriate to be applied to Southern Rock.

Because it is not a pure underwriter and has

These figures do not take account of that.

They suggested another yardstick but only gave us figures for one

They declined to offer data for previous years for us to analyse.

Mr Banks' lawyers also told us that Southern Rock's profitability

was a matter of public record and that it made 42 million

But that profit came from recapitalisation,

in other words, a cash injection from another bank's business.

Another of Mr Banks' businesses has also been

Mr Banks was the sole director and one of only two shareholders

in a company called African Compass Trading.

It sold a herbal substitute for Viagra called Star 150.

It's slogan, naturally, every man wants to be

Even herbal medicines need approval by the regulator, the MHRA.

They told us, as part of a criminal investigation in 2014,

into the sale and supply of an authorised medicine

into the sale and supply of unauthorised medicine

or products, they seized around ?50,000 worth of Star 150 pills

They told us their investigation is closed and to the best

of Newsnight's knowledge, it has not resulted

Mr Banks told Newsnight that African Compass Trading shut down

three and a half years ago, owing to, in his words,

A few run-ins with regulators and auditors, that is

The Electoral Commission is already investigating leave.EU,

a company controlled by Mr Banks about its conduct during

Newsnight has uncovered disturbing evidence that raises questions

about his political funding, even before the Brexit vote.

In September, 2014, Tory MP Mark Reckless triggered

a by-election in Rochester and Strood in Kent when

Five former employees told us that staff from Mr Banks' company

were asked to go to Rochester to help the Ukip campaign.

We have got the number of an insurance salesman

And we are told he also went to the Rochester by-election.

We had, like, a photo and then we were like chaperoning

You were chaperoning people, to the polling stations, yes?

Were they Ukip voters or everybody voters?

Well, it was for Ukip, it was all there for Ukip, so, yes,

Probably between ten and 15 cars, I expect.

I wasn't deducted any pay for being out of the office, so,

you could say that I was paid for the two days that I was there.

One estimate of the cost of 15 drivers ferrying voters

to the polls would be ?9,000, a sum that would have put Ukip's

The Tories, of course, are also in trouble for failing

to declare election expenses on a larger scale than this.

Mark Reckless told Newsnight neither I nor my agent authorised

spending except that which was appropriately declared.

But we found no record of this spending in the returns.

So where does that leave Arron Banks?

It is only lawful if you stay within the regulated proceedings

for spending money for the purposes of the election of the candidates.

If you go outside of it, it is unlawful on the part

of the third party who organised the assistance, Mr Banks

If they did it and incurred those costs, without the authority

of the agent, as it appears that they may have done,

that is called an illegal practice and it is an offence,

Arron Banks told us all expenditure incurred during the by-election

was properly expensed in full and notified to Ukip at the time.

But the party's record-keeping, he said, left something to be desired.

No prosecution is on the cards because a criminal allegation has

to be made within one year of any potential offence.

But this story bites because after Rochester,

the BBC along with other broadcasters gave Ukip

and its party leader Nigel Farage a much bigger platform.

Hollywood loves a winner, the Arron Banks box set may well

binge on his business antics, but playing fast and

That may not go down so well at the box office.

We did invite Mr Banks to join us tonight but we are told

In a statement he told us: "Since the referendum result

and my support for Donald Trump, I have been the subject

of politically motivated attacks by the 'mainstream media'

It comes as no surprise that "Newsnight" would join

the party at this late stage with their own particular

type of trashy 'News of the World' journalism!"

He added: "After allegations of me being a "Russian spy, part

of a worldwide conspiracy to subvert democracy,

the only surprise is how long it's taken Newsnight

to have a pop at me! BBC Fake news is alive and well!"

Cramming one opinion into two minutes.

Tonight, the trade economist Shanker Singham, from the think tank

the Legatum Institute, looks at how we might get

The Harvey Weinstein case has ignited a debate about the quiet

It feels as though we have re-calibrated attitudes,

so that it is no longer quiet, or tolerated.

But one important aspect of the cover-up of sexual predation

has come under examination today: it's the role of compensation

settlements for victims attached to non-disclosure agreements

designed to keep them quiet about what happened.

The Financial Times today reported on a former London-based assistant

She was harassed by Weinstein; a colleague of hers was assaulted.

They wanted to report it, but they were put under pressure

by phalanxes of lawyers, both Weinstein's and their own,

Zelda Perkins thus kept quiet, and that's why she hasn't

So should we tolerate these contracts?

With me is the lawyer Harini Iyengar, who works

in this field and has drawn up similar agreements.

In Washington is Maya Raghu, director of Workplace and Equality

Thanks for joining us. Harini Iyengar, I want to start with you,

are these enforceable? Is Zelda Perkins said something, it she

presumably will not be chased up now? If she said something to years

after they had signed it, could he have won in court if she reported

it? It depends. It depends on the circumstances. So far, we only know

what was in the FT. She used the word to rest. If she entered into a

contract under duress, under pressure, it wouldn't be

enforceable. Certainly, the kind of settlement I am involved in between

two parties advised and have decided it is the best way to resolve a

dispute. She was legally advised, but as she described it, there were

a lot of lawyers. She is a young woman, a bunch of men sitting across

her table, would a judge recognised that as an intimidating by its

nature? If she didn't exercise free will, the contract shouldn't be

enforceable. Do you think these contracts are desirable? I do,

actually. You have two distinguished the criminal aspect of rape and

sexual assault. Unfortunately, in the last few years, I have had three

cases that did involve rape. They are not entirely separate. When we

look at employment tribunal, litigation in particular, sexual

harassment, that is getting compensation in monetary form. Why

do you need to attach to that that you don't tell people what has

happened? It is on the basis the allegations are not admitted. It

avoids expensive litigation. Litigation can be in private if

there is a sexual harassment element to it, but it is still stressful. I

maintain it is better. You might advise a woman to go with it? Many

women want to get it over with and take the compensation. They want to

get proper compensation that reflects what they would have got if

and when they had gone to court. Maya Raghu, I am interested in what

you think on this. I think there are circumstances in which N'Diaye as

are important and useful for individuals that are coming forward

to complain about sexual harassment or assault. However, generally in

the US, they have been used to silence victims to cover up the

extent of sexual harassment in some workplaces, and really to shield

serious harassers from any serious accountability. There are a couple

of key differences from what we were just hearing. In the US, mini

workers will end up negotiating settlement agreements with their

employer, in case of sexual harassment without an attorney. That

is because the vast majority of victims simply don't have access or

resource to hire an attorney. Many of these workers are in low-wage

jobs and in fast food industries or retail, and it is not a realistic

option to have someone even advise them on their options, let alone on

the terms of a settlement agreement. Many women suffer in silence and

don't come forward because they think they are the only ones, and

that acts to prevent others from coming forward and revealing the

extent of a problem. Harini, how do we get out of the fact that the

lawyers were part of the cover-up for Weinstein? He made multiple

settlements. The process didn't work. I have not come across

settlement agreements where the sum of money seems very large compared

to what one thinks APA would be earning, and indeed, what you might

get. She was on 20,000. Looking without the details, it seems

greatly inflated, and that causes concern. As a business, why is a

business, and what would the shareholders and board had to say

about excessive sums of money being spent on an employee's behaviour? Do

you think the whole existence of this institution with no

whistle-blowing around it, does actually foster the secrecy and

cover up of Weinstein type cases? I do. Especially in cases like we have

in the US, where there is such a power imbalance between the worker

and employer, especially if the worker is unrepresented. That is

when you can get settlement agreements with nondisclosure

agreements that sometimes prevent them from talking about the

underlying acts, even if they would constitute a crime in the US. What

would you do... Sorry to cut you off, what would you do about it? One

of the things we have done is we recently launch the first national

legal network for gender equity to help women and vulnerable people

experiencing sex as cremation and harassment, in implement and in

schools, to give them advice and connect them to a network of

attorneys across the country that can help them. The second thing is

we know there are legislators across the country, whether in Congress or

in the States, who think about a legislative solution. And very

briefly, you would never allow here, would you, a cover-up of a criminal

offence? In a sentence. Neither from the women or the business side.

Thank you both very much indeed. We leave you with the work

of Hadar Averbuch-Elor and Daniel Cohen-Or,

of the University of Tel Aviv, who have developed software that

automates and simplifies the process of bringing still photos

to life with 3D animation. It's known that Facebook are

also involved, so expect to see the effect bringing joy

to your newsfeed - or possibly creeping you out -

sooner rather than later.