02/11/2017 Newsnight


02/11/2017

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

It's been 10 years,

three months and 27 days

0:00:070:00:09

of cheaper and cheaper money.

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But today, it just

got a little dearer.

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The Bank of England hikes

interest rates by 0.25%,

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but who's that going to help?

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We ask whether the Bank has

got its timing right.

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Also tonight, a breaking story

of fresh allegations of sexual

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harrassment by another Member

of Parliament emerges.

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On the day the PM was forced

to replace a Cabinet minister,

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could this herald a crisis

for both her and the leader

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of the Opposition?

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And we speak Goldie -

from breakdancer to DJ,

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grafitti and grills,

a more mellow Goldie

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tells his life story.

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Goldie fights with 19-year-old on

the way to yoga. Goldie dies in

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knife fight on the way to yoga.

Either way that's not going to look

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right!

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First tonight, the breaking

political story.

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The Labour MP, Kelvin Hopkins,

has been suspended from the party

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after it received allegations

of inappropriate behaviour

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towards a young woman.

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The Labour Party is remaining

relatively tight-lipped about it.

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Our political editor,

Nick Watt is here.

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Nick, what can you tell us?

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Kelvin Hopkins, a 76-year-old former

shadow minister has been suspended

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from the Labour Party and that means

the whip is suspended from him after

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an incident that took place in 2014

with a young Labour activist and he

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was addressing the Labour society at

Essex University and it is alleged

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that he sent a text after saying, if

only I was 40 years younger and this

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why he has been suspended, he then

allegedly rubbed himself against

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her.

By the event in the Daily

Telegraph the woman reported it to

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the whip's office twice before he

was made a Shadow Cabinet minister.

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So if that is to be believed, then

the whips knew about this.

Also Eva

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reported it in December 2015 in June

Hopkins was appointed to the Shadow

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Cabinet. But he had been reprimanded

by the office and the leader knew.

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The report to the leader's office

was yes, he has been reprimanded,

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but the matter had been settled and

the only information they knew at

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that stage was that he sent this

text saying if only I was 40 years

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younger. It was only today that the

further information came that he

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sent a text saying he wanted to meet

outside the formal Essex University

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event and crucially only today that

the information came through of this

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very serious sexual harassment, a

sexual assault, that he had rubbed

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himself against her and that is why

the Labour acted immediately.

It is

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only after that Daily Telegraph

produced that story that we have had

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that response from the Labour Party.

So they're having to be made to

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react rather than being proactive.

In the Sun there is more on Michael

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Fallon that may give a clue to his

demise. We have a story about his

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behaviour.

This is reporting and

this may well explain why he

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resigned so quickly, that he is

alleged to have told Andrea

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leadsome, his cabinet colleague, who

complained of cold hands, he said, I

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know a warm place to put them. That

is deeply inappropriate and that may

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well explain why he resigned so

quickly. But there are allegations

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that there are serial examples of

wholly inappropriate behaviour by

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Sir Michael Fallon.

Those

allegations would have gone to the

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Chief Whip's office, the Chief Whip

is no I the Defence Secretary. You

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can look at two ways, he is a close

ally of Theresa May, or she didn't

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act with Elan to produce a woman for

that office.

She likes to promote

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people she trusts. But there is fury

that Gavin Williamson has been made

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Defence Secretary, because he was

involved in the conversation with

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Michael Fallon, saying, is there

anything more. The answer meant he

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resigned from the cabinet. Now

Downing Street are saying that Gavin

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Williamson wasn't then involved in

the next level of conversation,

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which is who should be our new

Defence Secretary. But that is not

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how it has been seen. I have been in

touch with somebody who worked close

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with Theresa May in the past and

said many say this is the biggest

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and probably last mistake, that

Gavin Williamson and his deputy

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Julia Smith are seen as parasites

feeding off her weakness and using

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it to advance themselves. I have

been looking at these issues and you

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see how angry Theresa May is, she is

has been campaigning to change the

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culture at Westminster and now this

is really sort of posing a challenge

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to her premiership.

The dark clouds

of an unlucky premiership are

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hovering over Theresa May. There is

the feel of a Prime Minister

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struggling at times to control

events. The Prime Minister has lost

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her Defence Secretary after he

admitted that his behaviour had

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fallen short of the high standards

expect of the armed forces. Theresa

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May has campaigned for decades to

change the habits of male-Dom named

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world of -- male-dominated world of

Westminster.

Domestic violence is

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appalling. Many women were made to

feel like they were making mountains

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out of mole hills.

In a cruel twist

the unravelling of this culture is

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now challenging her leadership.

It

is like a Greek tragedy what Theresa

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May's legacy will be. Nobody doubts

that Theresa May hates this culture

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that she is having to wrangle with.

Nobody would deny that. But the fact

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of the matter is she is too weak

amongst her own people to be able to

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dole out the punishments I'm certain

she would wants to.

Traichl Theresa

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May is so week she embarked on a

minimal reshuffle. But it left a

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sour taste and one said it has the

intrigue of the house of cards with

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the surreal element of the Rick

Mayall commend. Comedy.

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Other Tories dismiss the febrile

atmosphere at Westminster and say it

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is wrong to suggest that the Prime

Minister is being weakened by the

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unmasking of a culture she has

campaigned to reform.

I'm astonished

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by this sort of narrative. She, it

has been something she has been

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passionate about, all the equality

issues, gender issues when people in

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the Conservative Party didn't talk

about it, didn't care, and I am, I

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don't, I'm mystified by how somebody

with such integrity has the

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narrative has built up that it is

her fault. But some of goes back

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many years and will be very hard to

prove. We have got to investigate

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the serious stuff and I'm sure she

would be the first to say this and

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then draw a line, move on and sort

the stuff out.

The Prime Minister

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has led the way on this. She was

clear about it on Monday. In the

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statement she was clear at Prime

Minister's question and she has made

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it clear to the cabinet and said if

you believe you don't meet the

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standard that is to be tolerated,

then you have to think about your

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position. And to that extents,

Michael Fallon realised he would not

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cross the bar she had set. That is

down to her leadership and saying,

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we have to take this seriously and

lead. It is not just about the

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Conservative Party, but the Labour

Party they have something facing

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potential rape charges which is very

serious.

Theresa May is going on,

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but after her inner circle was wiped

out in the general election, she

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will hope events don't conspire to

make her an even more ice lapted

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figure. -- isolated figure.

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Our Political Editor Nick Watt.

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Well now to chew over

the latest allegations

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from Westminster I'm joined

by the LBC Presenter Iain Dale

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and the former aide

to the Deputy Prime Minister,

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Polly Mackenzie.

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We heard Jess Philips saying it is a

Greek tragedy. Wech is falling to

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bits.

We have been here in the 90s

with back to basics with a weak

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Prime Minister and day after day

revelations about affairs and all

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sorts of things in Parliament.

Everyone thought everybody in

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Parliament was having an affair.

This is slightly different, sexual

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what racksment. Harassment.

This is

a plague on all their houses.

No one

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has escaped. No party escapes, it is

in the Lord's and the Commons and

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Theresa May has missed a an

opportunity to put a new broom

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behind cleaning this out.

Now the

Gavan Williamson, it is because she

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is weak that Theresa May can't move

to make a bolder move. But she wants

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to keep Gavin Williamson close.

It

is a bold move to put somebody from

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out side the cabinet there.

Is it a

sign of weakness.

She is not weaker

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than she was yesterday.

Which was

weak.

She is not in a great

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position. Gordon Brown put Jacqui

Smith to Home Secretary, Margaret

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Thatcher did it with Cecil

Parkinson.

But not in this crisis.

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The whip's office have been part of

problem, they covered up the

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problem. Where did this spread sheet

come from.

Gavin Williamson as

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Defence Secretary may well know

about other examples of, we just

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don't know, of other bad behaviour

that will come back to bite the

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cabinet.

I think the reshuffle is a

separate issue. What this story and

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it is across all parties, I don't

think anyone should try to gain

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political capital, the complaints

system does not work. People take to

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it the whips and it doesn't get

used. The whips office this to

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control MPs.

What people are shocked

to know is that actually there has

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been a real culture of sexual

misbehaviour and it is not about

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sex, but about power.

Yes,

Westminster is still male-dominated,

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it is older men in senior position,

junior women and men... They felt

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uncomfortable and the men saying, I

had no idea.

It is not only talking

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of Theresa May and you can juxtapose

with what Theresa May has done with

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what Ruth Davidson said about

cleaning the stable. Here we have a

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situation where Jeremy Corbyn's own

office of whips is also possibly

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compromised.

It shows you that the

system doesn't work and I have

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spoken with people in the whips

office, around Parliament still, the

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issue here and there has to be a

full inquiry. What I would like the

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Labour Party to do is to appoint

somebody independent to come in and

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look at the situation.

Let's look at

the leadership on this. We don't

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know what is going on behind the

scenes, but I do not know that

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Jeremy Corbyn has been out being

condemning people in the last

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48-hours.

I couldn't agree more.

There are two problems. One is

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sexual abuse by a small number of

people and a wider culture of

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secrecy and cover ups. I would like

to see everybody who has made a

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complaint make a subject request to

find out what records they have been

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keeping. They say they don't know.

How do you have these complaints

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against Kelvin Hopkins and then the

same, how could there be such a

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position where the woman who makes

the complaints watches him walk into

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the Shadow Cabinet.

He is an MP and

she is not.

The issue is curl churl

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of the -- cultural. It is women not

coming forward and young men, they

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don't want their names splashed

across the newspaper. There is no

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confidential way to report this and

it is the power thing. A lot of

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people are scared.

Power does not

create Monday stores, power --

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monsters, it reveals monsters. That

was said in house of cards. The

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problem is the whips, because the

job of the whips is to get

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legislation through the House of

Commons or stop it going through.

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Anything else is of secondary

importance. There was a story

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condemning the 1922 committee for

blocking David Cameron's attempts to

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give the whips power to sort this

out, because they knew they would

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cover it up.

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The problem is a male MP's being

sleazy and abusing power.

Everyone

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thinking it's more useful to keep

those things in a draw and use them

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as blackmail rather than sorting

things out.

Going back to the

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appointment of the new Defence

Secretary, what would have been the

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ball thing that Theresa May could

have done without the appointment?

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She should have an appointed and a

woman, the first female...

Why

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should she have done that? Just as a

statement?

Because an opportunity

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was there to put a woman into a job

that men have historically done, an

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opportunity to say that she is

bringing a new broom to appointments

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and dealing with sexual harassment

by putting in somebody who doesn't

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have a history of doing it.

And

Milton would have been a popular

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choice to be Chief Whip, she is

experienced, people say she has had

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good experience of the grievance

procedure as well so she might have

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signalled a fresh start.

Estimate he

is deputy Chief Whip...

Theresa

0:16:060:16:13

May....

When I saw her go into

Downing Street eyes and dues either

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going to be Chief Whip or the new

chairman of the Conservative Party,

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why Theresa May did not take the

opportunity to have a new party

0:16:260:16:29

chairman I do not know because

everyone knows Patrick McLoughlin

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wants to step down.

How damaging is

it to the whole prosecution of

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politics in this country that we are

having a slow drip of even more

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egregious and there are other

things, the other night, John Mann

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said a Newsnight he knew of a rape

at when spinster -- at Westminster,

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but he did not name names, but he

would not be saying that unless he

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had a pretty good idea. So we know

more is to come and how damaging is

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that to the standing of politicians

who are standing is already damaged

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thanks to the expensive -- expenses

scandal and so forth?

All of my

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friends say to me you must be so

relieved you never got into

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Parliament, when I told my mother I

was not standing again she cheered.

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What a terrible thing, she ought to

want her son to go into Parliament.

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I am glad I never became an MP.

Do

you still want to go into

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Parliament? Not particularly, not

right now, but I don't think this is

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the issue.

About hope politicians

feel about their reputation. This is

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about victims. Watching us

squabbling about who is up and who's

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down in the reshuffle is not the

issue. The issue is people of all

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parties who feel they have been

treated badly need to feel that they

0:17:470:17:50

can come forward and talk about this

and be believed and not victimised

0:17:500:17:57

or which handed.

Thank you all very

much indeed.

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It hasn't happened in more

than a decade, but there are no

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fanfares or fireworks.

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The Bank of England raised

interest rates today -

0:18:040:18:06

signalling a change

in the economic weather.

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Is this a big moment, or time

for a bit of shoulder shrugging?

0:18:080:18:13

Why has the Monetary

Committee done it?

0:18:130:18:15

Is it because things getting

out of hand and we need

0:18:150:18:18

to tighten up a bit?

0:18:180:18:19

Well, consumers are showing

a prodigious appetite for credit,

0:18:190:18:21

creating a growing pile

of personal debt.

0:18:210:18:23

Money's been very

cheap for a long time.

0:18:230:18:25

But are they borrowing

because they're trying

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to cope with 3% inflation

and near stagnant wages?

0:18:260:18:29

If so, then they're going to get

a shock, because mortgages and other

0:18:290:18:32

repayments are going to rise

and inflation is not expected

0:18:320:18:34

to fall any time soon.

0:18:340:18:35

As for saving, it's unlikely that

a 0.25% interest rate increase

0:18:350:18:38

is going to turn us into a nation

of savers - something that seems

0:18:380:18:41

part of a dim and distant past.

0:18:410:18:43

Our Business Editor, Helen Thomas,

has been trying to make sense

0:18:430:18:46

of the Bank of England's move.

0:18:460:18:50

Economic predictions or your average

weather forecast? It is hard to see

0:18:530:18:59

which engenders less faith. The

first rise in interest rates in over

0:18:590:19:05

ten years, it's not done too much to

clear things up. Usually a rate rise

0:19:050:19:09

would reflect strength, recovery,

robust growth and confidence. This

0:19:090:19:17

time, the economic weather feels a

little different. So why is the bank

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acting now? The obvious and Sir is

inflation, at 3% it is well above

0:19:220:19:27

the bank 's 2% target. But most

people agree that a temporary

0:19:270:19:34

problem, related to a fall in the

pound. It should start to fix

0:19:340:19:38

itself. The Bank of England governor

conceded the outlook is unusually

0:19:380:19:42

uncertain thanks in part to Brexit

bust up still, he said, it was time

0:19:420:19:47

to move.

In many respects today's

decision is straight forward. With

0:19:470:19:56

the economy growing and rates above

its speed limit inflation is

0:19:560:19:59

unlikely to return to the 2% target

without some increase in interest

0:19:590:20:03

rates.

Once upon a time the Bank of

England's key interest rate moved up

0:20:030:20:09

and down with the UK economic

fortunes. Higher interest rates

0:20:090:20:13

turned the economic heat down.

Increasing the cost of borrowing and

0:20:130:20:18

reducing spending. These are the

last four periods the bank of

0:20:180:20:21

England was raising rates, quarterly

economic growth in the year before

0:20:210:20:25

the first height averaged 0.4%. Now

quarterly growth has been averaging

0:20:250:20:33

about 0.4%. Even more unusual, this

rate hike comes as real wages have

0:20:330:20:40

been falling. That is wage growth

adjusted for inflation.

I think they

0:20:400:20:45

made a mistake. I think at best the

decision to raise rates today was

0:20:450:20:49

premature and at worst could be

reckless. The risk is if you raise

0:20:490:20:54

rates against the backdrop of

economic weakness it tends to

0:20:540:20:57

frighten the horses are little and

what you may see is consumers who

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are already running with very high

levels of debt against a backdrop of

0:21:000:21:05

pretty tough financial conditions

choose to build their savings of

0:21:050:21:09

little bit more than the Bank of

England would like an precipitate

0:21:090:21:12

something of a steep slowdown than

we are already seeing.

So this

0:21:120:21:17

wasn't a normal rate hike but as

Mark Carney said we do not live in

0:21:170:21:20

normal times. A decade of interest

at virtually zero is certainly

0:21:200:21:26

extraordinary and for some the

central bank had to at least start

0:21:260:21:29

the journey back to more

conventional levels.

Ultra low

0:21:290:21:33

interest rates have costs as well as

benefits and if you are in a

0:21:330:21:37

position where interest rates are

expected to remain near zero for the

0:21:370:21:41

foreseeable it creates all sorts of

distortions, misallocation is of

0:21:410:21:45

resources and so on. If you can get

interest rates back to mourn over

0:21:450:21:48

levels then you have a margin to cut

again if you need to. For example if

0:21:480:21:52

the Brexit those Asians go badly the

Bank of England will have more scope

0:21:520:21:56

to cut rates in future done if it

did not raise them today at all. --

0:21:560:22:01

of the Brexit negotiations go badly.

This only takes rates backs to where

0:22:010:22:06

they were in the summer of 2016,

before the post-referendum cut.

0:22:060:22:11

Still it all came with a gloomy

outlook. In the banks view, the

0:22:110:22:16

economy has hit its limit, the

economic climate now is about as

0:22:160:22:21

good as it's going to get. That's in

part because productivity, a big

0:22:210:22:28

determinant of economic potential,

has flat lined since the financial

0:22:280:22:32

crisis.

The Bank of England are

taking a conservative view about the

0:22:320:22:35

UK's potential supply growth, they

have seen growth around one and a

0:22:350:22:40

half percent as being the long-term

position. I think what is important,

0:22:400:22:45

what businesses want to see is the

right environment to invest and that

0:22:450:22:49

we are investing in our skills and

education and infrastructure and I

0:22:490:22:52

think that is why actually what the

business media wants is more action

0:22:520:22:56

by Philip Hammond than Mark Carney

and all eyes will be on the budget

0:22:560:23:03

later this month.

It's official,

interest rates are rising again. But

0:23:030:23:11

so is the pressure.

0:23:110:23:12

Well, what should we

make of today's move?

0:23:150:23:17

And is there anything

in the American experience

0:23:170:23:18

we should learn from -

where rates have already

0:23:180:23:20

been rising for a while?

0:23:200:23:22

I'm joined from New York

by Gillian Tett of the Financial

0:23:220:23:24

Times and from Florida

by Professor David Blanchflower,

0:23:240:23:30

Looking at this side of the pond,

inflation rise and an implement low,

0:23:320:23:37

was this the right time to move, are

we heading for more normal times?

I

0:23:370:23:45

am in the camp of people who think

it was the right time to move and we

0:23:450:23:49

have had extraordinarily abnormal

times for the best part of the last

0:23:490:23:52

decade. The ultralow interest rates

were introduced initially as an

0:23:520:23:56

emergency response after the

financial crisis. That was a long

0:23:560:24:02

time ago. I personally think getting

back to a more normal world is

0:24:020:24:06

healthy and it is something America

has been doing now for 18 months,

0:24:060:24:09

over 18 months. So far the markets

have absorbed it fairly calmly.

Are

0:24:090:24:17

we now just going to accept in this

country at least that growth is

0:24:170:24:21

sluggish, growth is reasonably

sluggish in the States, there is an

0:24:210:24:26

acceptance that that indeed is the

norm, that even in that position you

0:24:260:24:32

raise interest rates and it looks

like America will raise them next

0:24:320:24:34

month even though growth is not that

strong.

Essentially what the central

0:24:340:24:41

Bank of America is trying to do is

exactly what Mark Carney is trying

0:24:410:24:44

to do, it's like the pilot of an

aeroplane trying to lose altitude

0:24:440:24:47

very slowly over a long period of

time. They are trying to return

0:24:470:24:54

slowly to a more normal world

without anybody noticing. Let's keep

0:24:540:24:58

this in perspective, it's not

exactly a dramatic rise. The rate

0:24:580:25:03

rise we have seen in the US have not

been dramatic either. But it's a

0:25:030:25:08

sign the central bank is moving into

a slightly more normal world and as

0:25:080:25:12

Helen says, they are creating a

reserve firepower for themselves to

0:25:120:25:16

use if there is another crisis.

Let's talk about that reserve

0:25:160:25:20

firepower. We are joined by the

former member of the Bank of England

0:25:200:25:28

monetary policy committee David

Blanchflower, is it necessary to

0:25:280:25:30

create firepower or will it create

firepower?

No. I don't normally

0:25:300:25:36

disagree with my friend Gillian, but

I'm afraid this looks to be a big

0:25:360:25:41

mistake to me. The way you create

firepower is not to create a

0:25:410:25:46

recession yourself. People want to

raise rates so when a recession

0:25:460:25:50

comes you can cut rates. This looks

like an enormous mistake. There is

0:25:500:25:55

nothing in the data whatsoever to

sustain it. It looks to me like the

0:25:550:26:00

rate rise which was done in July

2007 that I actually voted against.

0:26:000:26:06

It was returned a few months later

and then we went into recession. I

0:26:060:26:10

think this is a huge mistake. The

reality is there is absolutely no

0:26:100:26:15

data that says you should do it now.

With the uncertainty over Brexit,

0:26:150:26:20

the uncertainty over the fiscal

position of the government this

0:26:200:26:23

looks like a big mistake.

Not only

do you have sterling on the floor,

0:26:230:26:31

the uncertainty of Brexit, in the

states you have a president who says

0:26:310:26:34

he's going to cut taxes and simplify

taxes would perhaps leads to more

0:26:340:26:39

optimism but you don't necessarily

have that coming out of Philip

0:26:390:26:42

Hammond's briefcase.

Right. What you

have in the US is talk about the

0:26:420:26:49

huge fiscal cut, huge stimulus going

into the economy which is pushing

0:26:490:26:55

up, growth is double what it is in

the UK, real wages have risen in the

0:26:550:26:59

US over the last for five years and

they are down, be aware of the US is

0:26:590:27:04

the slowest growing economy in

Europe, growth is going to slow on

0:27:040:27:09

any measure this looks disastrous.

Real wages are down and there would

0:27:090:27:13

you are going to do is raise the

cost of borrowing to people not only

0:27:130:27:16

to homeowners but firms who are

going to cut their dividends. This

0:27:160:27:22

looks like a huge mistake.

Gillian,

on the basis of the 0.25% increase

0:27:220:27:29

your not going to have consumers

jumping up and down and saying we

0:27:290:27:32

are going to save because the debt

mountain is growing so much we will

0:27:320:27:37

have an increased tomorrow in

mortgage rates and the APR and

0:27:370:27:41

credit card will go sky-high? Kill

mac not exactly sky-high, let's keep

0:27:410:27:49

this in perspective. The question I

would put to Daniel is what you make

0:27:490:27:54

of things growing sharply in the UK,

does that not concern you? How do

0:27:540:27:59

you make sure consumers do not take

a huge amount of credit David

0:27:590:28:01

Blanchflower?

You can deal with

that, the FPC can deal with, the

0:28:010:28:11

likelihood is retail sales are

falling, they are about to plummet

0:28:110:28:14

as people realise they should not

have been saving so that will fix

0:28:140:28:17

it. We have already seen that. This

will make it much worse, it will

0:28:170:28:23

lower output. That seems a really

crazy way, you will force yourself

0:28:230:28:27

into a recession. Yes it's a small

mistake but it's better than making

0:28:270:28:31

a big mistake. But I would rather

not mistake at all. Yes credit is

0:28:310:28:36

rising, it's been a surprise to the

central bank but pretty dancing

0:28:360:28:39

that. Because people's real wages

are falling.

So what you are arguing

0:28:390:28:45

is you would like to create more of

a consumer credit bubble even as the

0:28:450:28:49

underlying fundamentals in the UK

are not so healthy? That is simply

0:28:490:28:54

eating your jam today and creaking

more problems in the future?

Well I

0:28:540:29:00

mean the economy is being held

together by the stimulus from the

0:29:000:29:05

central bank. If you want to deal

with the credit problems deal with

0:29:050:29:08

that through credit restrictions or

whatever but think about the streets

0:29:080:29:13

of Hartlepool, Blackpool, Wakefield,

do you think there is a credit boom

0:29:130:29:17

going on? I don't think so. People

are struggling, why do you think in

0:29:170:29:22

those places people voted for

Brexit? Not because there was a boom

0:29:220:29:26

going on and they were doing great.

That's not true. The economy is

0:29:260:29:32

basically flat, there is some credit

going on, people have been spending

0:29:320:29:35

more than they should but the

economy is hurting.

Thank you both

0:29:350:29:39

very much indeed.

0:29:390:29:40

Never before in the history

of the EU have a group of elected

0:29:450:29:48

members of any government -

regional or national -

0:29:480:29:50

been clapped in jail without trial,

but a Spanish High Court judge has

0:29:500:29:53

imprisoned eight members

of the former Government

0:29:530:29:55

of Catalonia, believing them

to be a flight risk.

0:29:550:29:57

The precedent

being the former leader

0:29:570:29:58

Carlos Puigdement and four members

of his sacked Cabinet

0:29:580:30:00

who are in Belgium.

0:30:000:30:01

It looks as though a judge

is about to issue a European arrest

0:30:010:30:05

warrant for their return

after they failed to appear in court

0:30:050:30:07

in Madrid today to answer

charges of rebellion,

0:30:070:30:09

sedition and misuse of public funds.

0:30:090:30:18

Today they were protests against the

arrests in Barcelona. But Catalans

0:30:180:30:26

are divided.

0:30:260:30:28

Catalans are divided over

whether Puigdemont acted

0:30:280:30:30

precipitously in leaving

so what will he do next

0:30:300:30:32

and how will his EU hosts, Belgium,

respond to the warrant?

0:30:320:30:35

Joining me from Brussels

is Mark Demesmaeker

0:30:350:30:37

from the Flemish nationalist party,

the New Flemish Alliance.

0:30:370:30:41

Good evening.

Good evening.

Tell me,

what do you think Carles Puigdemont

0:30:410:30:52

and his four colleagues should do -

should they return to Spain if the

0:30:520:30:57

arrest warrant is issued?

It is not

for me to tell what they should do.

0:30:570:31:03

I understand why they're in Belgium,

they're here to denounce this

0:31:030:31:09

political trial... In front of the

international community. They have

0:31:090:31:17

used their rights as a European

citizen to travel to Belgium and to

0:31:170:31:21

stay here.

But of course, because

they did that, of course the others

0:31:210:31:28

in Spain are being detained as a

flight risk, what do you make of the

0:31:280:31:32

arrests?

It's not because of that,

but what we have seen in Spain the

0:31:320:31:38

last few weeks is outrageous. It is

a shock for every democrat in the

0:31:380:31:44

EU, it is a shock. This is obviously

a political trial. Jailing,

0:31:440:31:53

imprisoning elected members of a

government is unprecedented, it is

0:31:530:31:58

disturbing and unacceptable in the

EU. That is my reaction.

It looks as

0:31:580:32:04

if there is going to be a European

arrest warrant and Spain are going

0:32:040:32:08

to ask for the extradition of Carles

Puigdemont and the four others,

0:32:080:32:13

perhaps as early as tomorrow. Do you

think Belgium should comply with

0:32:130:32:19

that as an EU member?

Well this is

something for the judge in Belgium

0:32:190:32:25

to decide, politics doesn't

interfere with this. So there is a

0:32:250:32:30

procedure for that. It can take a

while. And as I have understood,

0:32:300:32:37

Carles Puigdemont has a got Flemish

lawyer who can assist him through

0:32:370:32:41

this. But it is up to the judge to

decide. So I have good faith in the

0:32:410:32:51

Belgium judicial system. Which

cannot be said of Spanish highly

0:32:510:33:01

politicised system.

So it is likely

the judge will comply with it in

0:33:010:33:06

Belgium?

I can't decide on that...

Would you be campaigning against the

0:33:060:33:14

extradition and throwing your

weight, you are, your party is part

0:33:140:33:19

of coalition government, do you

feel, would your party's position be

0:33:190:33:23

that Carles Puigdemont should be

extradited, should be returned,

0:33:230:33:28

after all what he did was

unconstitutional under Spanish law?

0:33:280:33:32

Again this is not nor a political

party or the Government to comment

0:33:320:33:37

on. It is a matter for the judge to

decide. There is a procedure and

0:33:370:33:44

will follow it. What we have seen in

other cases is after first hearing

0:33:440:33:49

the defendant... Was released. And

certainly when there is no... There

0:33:490:34:02

is no terrorist allegation or

something like that, which is not

0:34:020:34:04

the case here, but we will see. It

is up to the judge to decide. Do you

0:34:040:34:08

think we should have heard more from

Jean-Claude Juncker and the EU

0:34:080:34:13

should have weighed in on this? Yes

of course the EU is silent and this

0:34:130:34:18

is a disgrace. It is a shame for the

whole of the EU. The EU should not

0:34:180:34:24

stick its head in the sand any more

and should speak up. This is about a

0:34:240:34:31

fundamental democratic values which

are at stake. If the EU fails to

0:34:310:34:38

defend our rights as citizens and

democratic values, then our

0:34:380:34:42

democracies will crumble and...

Thank you very much I'm afraid I

0:34:420:34:47

have to stop you there.

0:34:470:34:51

The DJ and producer Goldie

is considered one of the pioneers

0:34:510:34:54

of dance music in this country.

0:34:540:34:56

Now 52, he winningly describes

himself as 'the Doris Stokes of Drum

0:34:560:34:58

'n' Bass'.

0:34:580:34:59

He says it's because

he likes to channel

0:34:590:35:01

the spirits of his favourite

musicians into his own records.

0:35:010:35:04

In his new memoir,

'All Things Remembered',

0:35:040:35:05

Goldie recounts his progress

from care homes and fosters parents

0:35:050:35:08

to life on the streets

as a graffiti artist -

0:35:080:35:10

to the nation's embrace with roles

in James Bond and 'Strictly'.

0:35:100:35:13

Goldie's been talking to our Culture

Correspondent, Stephen Smith.

0:35:130:35:15

Beware some flashing

lights in the film which,

0:35:150:35:17

of course, befits the star.

0:35:170:35:23

Goldie, it's very nice to see

you again, thanks for coming

0:35:230:35:25

to talk to us on Newsnight.

0:35:250:35:27

Yeah, I love your office!

0:35:270:35:30

Producer, DJ, actor,

reality TV veteran -

0:35:300:35:33

Goldie's used to having his name up

in lights, but in

0:35:330:35:38

the beginning it was about seeing

his name up in paint.

0:35:380:35:41

Does graffiti still excite him?

0:35:410:35:47

If we were to erase,

let's erase graffiti.

0:35:470:35:49

Let's erase it from

the face of the earth.

0:35:490:35:56

Some people will applaud

it, "Great stuff".

0:35:560:35:58

It's going to be a very grey

journey on the way to work.

0:35:580:36:01

But some people would say it's very

kind of solipsistic - you

0:36:010:36:04

put your tag up, you don't

necessarily put, you know, "end

0:36:040:36:06

poverty," although some people do.

0:36:060:36:08

Some people may think it's all part

of this kind of narcissistic culture

0:36:080:36:11

we are in.

0:36:110:36:15

I think the difference

is that that's a social

0:36:150:36:17

media, which is a finger at the end

of a button - people liking and

0:36:170:36:21

social media and emojis

and everything else.

0:36:210:36:25

People physically

making an effort to go

0:36:250:36:26

and paint something physically

and go through the physical

0:36:260:36:28

process is very primal.

0:36:280:36:34

Spaces like this - youth clubs,

opportunities for the

0:36:340:36:38

young, are vital, says Goldie.

0:36:380:36:42

If we don't have

that backdrop, if we

0:36:420:36:44

don't have certain places for young

people to express themselves, it

0:36:440:36:46

will only be a boiling point.

0:36:460:36:48

You look at the effects

of what grime

0:36:480:36:50

music has done.

0:36:500:36:55

There's a place for young people

within this grime thing

0:36:550:36:58

to have their own voice, which has

become the voice of UK all of a

0:36:580:37:02

sudden, because of influx

of different urban people.

0:37:020:37:06

Goldie backs the Mayor

of London's plans to

0:37:060:37:10

invest £400,000 in regeneration

projects to benefit young people

0:37:100:37:12

among others.

0:37:120:37:14

I had a meeting with

Sadiq three months ago.

0:37:140:37:18

And I saw the cultural

plan, which a lot of

0:37:180:37:21

people conservatively are against.

0:37:210:37:25

"Why are we giving these

kids somewhere to paint?

0:37:250:37:27

Why are we giving them

somewhere to do music?

0:37:270:37:29

Because music's not going

to run the Government."

0:37:290:37:31

Well you haven't done a very good

job of it so far, have you?

0:37:310:37:34

It's time to change

the way we look at it.

0:37:340:37:39

Even if you're not an aficionado

of drum and bass, you may

0:37:390:37:42

know Goldie from his appearances

on reality shows like Maestro and

0:37:420:37:45

Strictly Come Dancing.

0:37:450:37:50

He even played a baddie

in a James Bond film.

0:37:500:37:53

I see you later, Mr Bond.

0:37:530:37:57

So you put your money

where your mouth is.

0:37:570:37:59

If it all goes wrong tomorrow,

at least I'll stay in James Bond

0:37:590:38:02

every Christmas for

the next how many years.

0:38:020:38:04

You know what I mean?

0:38:040:38:05

That is in itself

a great experience.

0:38:050:38:09

He has come a long way

from his childhood in care.

0:38:090:38:12

I was saved by social workers.

0:38:120:38:14

Underpaid.

0:38:140:38:15

Long hours.

0:38:150:38:19

I think the care system for me,

it was a really important

0:38:190:38:22

place they learned

about other cultures.

0:38:220:38:25

Knowing that the colour of my skin

is what it is - what am I?

0:38:250:38:28

Who am I?

0:38:280:38:29

Trying to find identity

was really important.

0:38:290:38:31

I think those halfway

houses have become very

0:38:310:38:36

sterile and the aspect of red tape

now, well you can't call them Aunts

0:38:360:38:39

and Uncles, because

they aren't related.

0:38:390:38:41

I didn't mind calling them Auntie

and Uncle, because it gave me

0:38:410:38:44

a sense of family.

0:38:440:38:44

And I think the people that

write the rules of all

0:38:440:38:47

that stuff forget they were young.

0:38:470:38:53

One phrase in particular that really

leapt out at me from your book,

0:38:530:38:58

given what's happened this year,

is where you say, "God forbid we'll

0:38:580:39:01

have to be on fire before we make

the

0:39:010:39:03

right change in the

housing situation.

0:39:030:39:09

And stop making rabbit burrows

full of speed bumps and

0:39:090:39:11

bollards to stop everyone

getting out of there."

0:39:110:39:13

You can't read that

after Grenfell without...

0:39:130:39:18

Making a connection.

0:39:180:39:19

Totally.

0:39:190:39:20

What can you say about that?

0:39:200:39:29

You know, you're

stacking these people

0:39:290:39:30

on the edge of a Borough that's 20

times richer than it.

0:39:300:39:33

We're looking at the

short-term, aren't we?

0:39:330:39:37

In society, we are tapping

into not even 3% of what we

0:39:370:39:41

should be doing for tomorrow's

children and I have said what

0:39:410:39:43

we do today creates tomorrow.

0:39:430:39:45

And what was done

in those days, when

0:39:450:39:50

you look at Grenfell and that

situation, the atrocity it has

0:39:500:39:53

caused, the heartache, people

will never recover from that - young

0:39:530:39:56

people in that situation

will never recover.

0:39:560:39:58

They will need mental help and help

for a very long time.

0:39:580:40:03

Those estates, those

places, the youth

0:40:030:40:04

clubs, the organisations

around it, are important.

0:40:040:40:14

Now in his 50s, Goldie's living

in Thailand with his

0:40:160:40:18

young family.

0:40:180:40:21

He has released an album this

year and his new memoir

0:40:210:40:24

is the work of a man who says

he counts his blessings.

0:40:240:40:27

Whisper it, but Goldie

may be mellowing.

0:40:270:40:30

Yes, it has been hard

and there's always

0:40:300:40:33

going to be challenges -

I was challenged yesterday.

0:40:330:40:35

We're always going to be challenged.

0:40:350:40:36

You were challenged

to a fight, effectively?

0:40:360:40:44

Yeah, effectively challenged

to a fight by a teenager who was

0:40:440:40:46

angry, barges past you.

0:40:460:40:47

I get it.

0:40:470:40:48

You're an angry young man,

but you know what, have a nice day.

0:40:480:40:52

Because an older version

of me was, A, that

0:40:520:40:54

kid and, B, I've got a choice here.

0:40:540:40:56

I'm on my way to yoga.

0:40:560:40:57

Imagine that headline -

"Goldie fights with

0:40:570:40:59

19-year-old on way to yoga.

0:40:590:41:01

Goldie dies in knife

fight on way to yoga!"

0:41:010:41:03

Either way, that's not

going to look right.

0:41:030:41:08

Bite your tongue, getting your head

down and realising I had a

0:41:080:41:11

choice and going to yoga.

0:41:110:41:13

When I came out of

that yoga session, I

0:41:130:41:15

felt like that's a beautiful

day I've just had.

0:41:150:41:25

Tomorrow's front-pages, two on the

sleaze story. And the Fallon story,

0:41:260:41:34

one says, I was a victim of Fallon.

The leader of the Commons complained

0:41:340:41:40

to Theresa May about vile language

used by Sir Michael and also that he

0:41:400:41:45

was tactile and put his arms around

her in unwanted attention and made

0:41:450:41:52

comments of a sexual nature. The

Guardian has more on Williamson's

0:41:520:42:00

promotion. That that is all we have

time for have a good evening. Good

0:42:000:42:06

night.

0:42:060:42:09

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