24/11/2017 Newsnight

Egypt suffered one

of its it's deadliest ever

terrorist attacks today -

235 were killed and dozens injured

at a mosque in North Sinai province

when Islamist insurgents bombed

and shot worshippers

and then ambulances.

The Egyptian President vowed

to respond with brute force.

But tonight there's a disagreement

over what has caused this

increasingly lethal problem.

If you want to get a head get a hat,

is the old saying -

but if you want to keep your head

should you get a helmet?

Should the government make cycling

helmets and hi vis vests compulsory?

Ooh ah Cantona.

The footballer with the muse,

on his new book and that kick.

Footballers are role

models for young people...

No, but I am not a role model.

I already say that.

I am not an example.

Even today, I am not an example.

I have never been and I never

wanted to be an example.

I am just a human

being with emotions.

Good evening.

It was an attack of

the most awful cruelty.

Egypt in shock...

After its worst ever terror attack.

As two hundred and thirty five

people are killed and dozens more

injured after Islamist insurgents

bombed the al-Rawda mosque in north

Sinai during Friday prayers -

to further the horror...

They then opened fire on worshippers

as they fled outside and reportedly

shot at ambulances on their way

to help the injured.

Today was the latest in a series

of deadly attacks in the province

over the past four years -

the violence has escalated

since the insurgency

in the peninsula was stepped up

after Islamist president

Mohammed Morsi was overthrown,

many of the attacks are attributed

to a group affiliated to so called

IS known as 'Sinai Province'.

Our diplomatic editor

Mark Urban is here...

What more detail do we have? It is

not a well reported part of Egypt

because of the insurgency but we

know it is what would be called a

complex attack. Set up with quite

diabolical forethought and planning.

We can look at a map to get a rough

idea of the area where it happened.

The al-Rawda mask in this small town

of Bir al-Abed on the main road, you

can see it running east to west --

the al-Rawda mosque. It was a Friday

prayer is when the bombs went off.

Then as people came to help, gunman

opening fire causing further

casualties and then finally, as

ambulances were called, both

makeshift roadblocks and gunfire

against the ambulances. Really awful

and carefully planned staged, three

stage atrocity.

There have been

attacks on Coptic Christians and the

security forces and convoys, but

never before a successful attack on

a mosque in Sinai.

I would hesitate

to be absolute about it but what is

quite clear is that everyone regards

this as a major escalation, for

obvious reasons, if you are claiming

a religious justification as the

Islamic State group does, you have

to be quite careful about targeting

of this kind. Why it has happened,

there is a whole complex set of

reasons for that that come out of

the tangled recent history of Sinai.

For years now North Sinai has seen

worsening balance. And it was that

religious distinction for the people

murdered today, those Sufi Muslims,

those following a moderate form of

religious life that led to the

targeting.

These guys are totally

refusing any other ideology, any

other thoughts, just the ices

thought, the violence, the ideology,

this village is inhabited by a too

many Sufi Muslim people, they are

peaceful, they are generous and that

is why they are attacked.

And the

killers, a formal claim from the

Islamic State affiliated groups is

yet to be made. But they did

publicise this crime, the beheading

of two Sufi elders who they are

accused of sorcery, for failing to

go along with the militant ideology

of jihad against the government.

President Sisi tonight vowed to

crush the jihadists but the

government campaign against them in

northern Sinai over the past four

years has done little to deal with

the underlying issues.

His policy

until now has been to look for a

military solution. It has been

clamping down harder on the several

hundred thousand Bedouin in northern

Sinai. It believes that through

pummelling the population they can

subdue them and until then, that is

not really worked.

In the aftermath

of the attack today there is every

chance that that Sufi tribe that

were targeted today may be

radicalised against the jihadists.

Those people from other tribes who

kept themselves neutral, not taking

the side of the Army or getting

involved with helping the Army, will

be on the side of the Army after

there's quite huge attack.

Following

the atrocity today, the Egyptian

security forces are pledged to

escalate their operations. The stage

in Sinai is set for revenge and

further violence.

The military option has not worked

in the last four years. President

Sisi said he would stamp it out with

brute force, how will he escalate,

will he look for outside help?

He

has already ordered air strikes this

evening on targets associated with

these groups. The way this has been

handled up to now has been very much

as an Egyptian problem, I do not

think there is anything on the

ground that anyone else can do. He

can say to the Americans, we want

more Apache helicopters or munitions

and the Americans in the spirit of

casting this as part of a global

battle against jihad as will go

along with that. The one interesting

regional actor in this who is giving

slightly more than that by the

Israelis. Tonight, Tel Aviv town

hall was lit up in Egyptian colours

as a gesture of solidarity, we can

see it in that image. Curious in a

way, the two nations have a peace

treaty but it has always been

described as a cold peace but it is

known that the Israelis with drones

and different networks, but they

have long established in the Bedouin

tribes in the Sinai have been giving

some intelligence assistance to the

Egyptians but that is about the

limit of it as far as outsiders are

concerned.

Thank you.

I'm joined from Montreal

by the Egyptian-American writer

and commentator Mona Eltahawy.

She writes on Islam and covered

the militant campaign by former

Egyptian President Murbarak

in the Sinai.

Also in the studio

Dr Hisham Hellyer.

He is a senior fellow

at the Atlantic Council

and at the Royal Services Institute

and has written extensively

about the region.

Good evening to both of you. What do

you make of this escalation and

where the escalation was exactly the

Sinai?

That part of Sinai has long

been the object of a brutal campaign

by successive Egyptian presidents.

Just to give you an example in 2004

under President Mubarak, after

attacks in south Sinai, Egyptian

police arrested at least 3000

people, tortured many of them in

North Sinai and took women and

children as hostages. We have had

this awful pattern of atrocities

committed in North Sinai by the

security forces and this delusion by

Egyptian regimes including this

statement today by the President

that this can be stamped out

military. This is an unwinnable war,

this is a part of Egypt that has

long been marginalised and neglected

and security forces whether it is

the police under President Mubarak

or the military under Mohamed Morsi

and now President Sisi has long

designed the tribes there. We have

to find another way of dealing with

that.

That has led to the ups well

of the Islamist insurgents, that is

what you are saying? Rather than

them saying we want to establish a

caliphate for itself.

But I think is

happening there because it has been

long marginalised and neglected and

had all these atrocities committed

against it, there is anger and

resentment and in 1993 when I

covered the then militant campaign

against President Mubarak we saw

similar things happening in Southern

Egypt.

Dr Hellyer, in a way the

success of Egyptian regimes only

have themselves to blame, or is

something else going on?

I would not

say they have themselves to blame,

but the problem is there a goal back

many years, there are a number of

different factors playing a role in

this and certainly you have seen

certain issues becoming exasperated

in the past few years, but what we

have seen recently is the new impact

of Isis within this particular part

of the country which is why you had

a group which goes back to 2010 and

has then been taken up by Isis.

What

do you make of this step change?

With the attack? The attack is quite

unprecedented. It is probably the

largest attack by non-state militant

terrorists in modern history there

and the fact that they've targeted

civilians in this way, I do not

think anyone should underestimate

that. They targeted a mosque, they

targeted people they could not put

into these boxes in a security

establishment, these were just

regular Egyptians. In the same way

that Coptic Egyptians are regular

Egyptians but they have created a

narrative around that grip and now

that narrative has been expanded to

include all Egyptians.

There is a

state of emergency in Sinai and we

do not know exactly what is

happening. What do you make of

President Sisi talking about brute

force?

For the past few years the

Egyptian state has been winning

eight campaign in the Sinai so brute

force, I am not sure how that will

go.

What do think about response? We

know in the past that a military

solution has failed, what do you

think of President Sisi saying, Isis

going with brute force, we will meet

with more brute force, is that the

only option he has got?

There is no

end to the brute force, he is going

to continue... We have to remember

that the Egyptian military has a far

superior air power, weapons,

ammunition is an heavy armour and

yet they have not been able to quell

this growing insurgency. I remind

everyone of the 1990s and the

militant campaign against President

Mubarak at the time. Those of us who

care about Egyptian security have

pleaded with the Regine 's in Egypt

to develop those areas. There has

been a long-standing development

plan which is just ink on paper for

Sinai. People need jobs and dignity

and a reason to live.

I'm sorry to

interrupt. Do you suggest that if it

feels like it has been marginalised

and ignored and given that it is

such a huge impact on Egypt, can you

end the state of emergency?

North

Sinai has been under a state of

emergency since 2014 and for many

years it has been under a news

blackout and we do not know the

worst of the atrocities committed by

the Egyptian regime and its security

forces. We know that Egyptian jails

are full of at least 60,000

political prisoners and the current

regime calls anyone who opposes it a

terrorist and thinks they can bomb

its way against anyone who it

defines as part of a terrorist

group. That is not the solution, the

solution is to give people a reason

to live, to develop marginalised

areas of Egypt and the solution is

to tell the Bedouin in Sinai, we

respect you, you are Egyptians and

we can be allies. They are an

influential tribe who have long been

disdained by the Egyptian regime and

they could help people resist the

influence of IS.

These are things

that could work. Do you agree? One

of the issues with this particular

attack is that it is possible and

these are some of the reports coming

out, that this particular village

was attacked precisely because

people in that village were

unwilling to cooperate with Isis.

Whether or not there was sufficient

coordination between them and the

Egyptian state, that is yet to be

seen.

That is a huge thing because

the Egyptian economy is suffering,

tourism is suffering terribly,

something has to happen.

Sinai has

been underdeveloped for quite some

time. This is a large-scale problem

across the country that requires

quite a multilayered set of

development plans and I am not sure

if we will see that at the moment.

There is a very strong emphasis on a

security solution and I am not

convinced that particularly after

today with such a brutal and really

ugly tragedy that we are going to

see that change any time soon.

Thank

you both very much indeed.

Do cycling helmets save lives?

And should they be compulsory?

That's a question that's going to be

under consideration in a review

of cycling safety being undertaken

by the Transport

Minister Jesse Norman.

He's said that he'd consider

legislation if the evidence

pointed in that direction.

Immediately many cycling campaigners

announced they would strongly

oppose any such move,

including the Olympic gold medallist

Chris Boardman who said that

evidence shows that helmets do not

make a significant difference

to people's safety.

In fact Cycling UK said it

could undermine levels of cycle use.

Here are some cyclists' views.

I wear one.

It's not really my business

if anyone else wants

to wear one, but I wear it.

I've been a cyclist a helluva long

time, but yes, I agree,

I think it's the right thing to do.

Do usually wear one?

Yes, when I'm on a road

bike I always wear one.

Just not today.

Not on the trike.

I'm not on a road

bike, I'm on a trike.

Do you always wear a helmet?

Yes.

Why?

Because I don't want to die.

That's not a bad idea.

I think we should do that, yes.

But not for you?

I wasn't planning to take

on this bike today.

It's a short journey.

But usually you wear a helmet?

I do.

Absolutely I do.

Thank you.

So why the resistance to something

that on the face of it

seems like a no brainer?

I'm joined now by Peter

McCabe Chief Executive,

of the charity Headway and Green

party London assembly

member Caroline Russell.

Do you wear a bike helmet?

No, I

don't. I cycle from is -- Islington

to City Hall everyday and I cycle in

a mellow way.

What about the

traffic?

I worry about the traffic

enormously, but there is just as

much risk of having a head injury as

a pedestrian on the pavement as

there is while riding a bike. It's

important that people ride their

bikes in ordinary everyday clothes

when they are getting around.

Not

even high visibility?

I don't have

that, no, I have good bike lights,

but I wear ordinary clothes and I

hope people can see me.

You have

lights?

Yes, and I use them during

the day as well as at night.

You

wear -- have them on in the day

because you are worried about people

crashing into you?

The number of

people who get injured, wearing

helmets, who don't have helmets... A

cycle helmet when protect you from

most crashes which happened you.

Is

that the case?

It's not. We have a

close relationship with survivors of

a brain injury and their families

and I've met many cyclists and

families who have had a loved one

who has had an accident on a bicycle

and I know a family well, young lad,

ten years old, asked if he could go

to his friends after school, went on

a bike and his parents received a

call saying we are about to end if

your son to hospital, if you can get

here on time, we will bring you, but

if not, we are going to try and save

his life. That is the reality.

You

hear of big accidents, lorries going

into cyclists, and in those

circumstances, presumably at least

having a helmet would save some of

those injuries?

In a crash with a

lorry, a plastic helmet on your head

is not going to help you, it will

help you in a low speed collision,

where you are riding your bike any

come across ice and you are skidding

and you come off and you hit the

curb, then a helmet might help you.

The majority of accidents are that

kind.

The collisions where

someone... Where you are hit by a

lorry, where your leg is run over,

helmet is not going to make a blind

bit of difference.

It is personal

freedom, and actually, there is an

argument to say that if you insist

people whereby come it is you will

have fewer people cycling. -- if you

insist people where bike helmets.

That is not the case. Where it has

been introduced, the compulsory

wearing of helmets, in Australia,

the United States, there are many

states which have compulsion for

children to wear cycle helmets, but

you asked, is there evidence, they

spend even evidence around transport

research laboratory 's -- there is

plenty of evidence for the that

people wearing helmets are at less

risk of sustaining injury.

If that

is the case, why have successive

reviews always, with evidence in

both directions, of course, but why

has it never been straightforward?

It seems to be straightforward, you

wear a seat belt in a car, but there

has never ended -- being anything

which says if you wear a helmet it

makes you savour.

The Highway code

advises you to wear a helmet when

you are on a bike, there is evidence

and I think it is overwhelming.

What

about your children? Do they wear

helmets?

They did when they were

riding on the road, but if they were

riding on the park, no, I would not

get them to wear a helmet to climb a

climbing frame.

Sometimes come in

some cities, you have cycle

superhighways and you are separate,

that is one thing, but in many towns

and cities, especially in rush hour,

I have seen people being clipped so

many times.

The thing is, we have

got to cut the danger at source,

getting people who are riding bikes

to put a helmet on their head is not

going to reduce the danger that they

are exposed to, the thing we should

do... It is like the rail industry,

they took the approach to cutting

risk and we should be doing the

same, addressing things like speed

of vehicles and bad behaviour by

people who are driving, talking on

the mobile phone, not concentrating

on causing crashes.

Is it about

feeling free, the winner going

through your hair?

It is about

getting on a bike, the same as

getting on your feet.

But it is an

engine of some sort. A mechanical

thing, going faster than walking.

But not very much faster. I walk

quite fast, cycle slowly. What we

should be doing, if we want to save

lives and stop these crashes we

should make sure we fill in the

potholes and make sure their drivers

behave properly. Rather than

focusing on a plastic hat.

I want to

do all of that, and the cycling is

great and it improves peoples health

and improves the environment and

that is what we should be

encouraging, but it is not a

question of either or, why can't you

wear a helmet and have cycle lanes

and have the safety that you would

like but avoid a child of three that

I met, fell off her Barbie bike, how

far is that? Bank the side of her

head, when I met her at the age of

19 she had had 19 operations --

bound the side. That cost should not

be burdened onto the NHS when it is

avoidable.

We are talking about lots

of different costs to the NHS. We

have a whole society that is

physically inactive, we need to get

more people riding bikes.

It is not

an either or argument.

If this

review comes out and the Department

for Transport, the minister says,

OK, the evidence is overwhelming,

I'm going to insist that people wear

helmets, are you telling me that

people will get off their bikes?

No.

I think there would be mass

infuriated about this because it is

focusing on one small thing that

makes a small difference in summer

crashes. -- in some. It won't make

people safer, which is what we

should be doing.

You would defy the

law?

I will fight very hard to make

sure it doesn't become the law.

Thanks for joining us.

Even if you have no interest

in football, the chances are that

you registered the imperious Gallic

presence of Eric Cantona

when he was a giant

of our national game.

The Frenchman helped

Manchester United to win four

Premier League titles in five

seasons and went a long way

to transforming the club -

and the league - into the huge

brands they are today.

Part of Cantona's appeal

was that he always seemed to have

more to say than his fellow players,

who were either 'over the moon'

or 'gutted for the lads'.

By contrast, Cantona

marked his return to football

after an infamous foul with a gnomic

reference to seagulls,

trawlers and sardines.

Since hanging up his No 7 shirt,

Cantona has made films and adverts,

and written poetry, and his latest

venture is a notebook

of his pensees and sketches.

We sent perpetual bench-warmer

Stephen Smith to meet him.

OK!

C'est bon!

C'est tres bon.

COMMENTATOR:

James

gets there just first.

Cantona!

To Manchester United fans,

he was the king, but it's more

than 20 years since he abdicated.

At the tender age of just 30.

What's Eric Cantona been

doing with his time?

I sit on the terrace

and I look at the people.

And I take all the energy

and it inspires me for

something else.

Or painting or writing.

If I don't do that,

I don't feel alive.

I just die.

I don't say I'm happy to do it.

I just need to feel alive.

To feel a fire inside of me,

something fill me.

Cantona keeps notebooks

and fills them with

his enigmatic words and doodles.

This one, walking your ego.

A few days ago I realised,

normally they

have ends along their legs.

His legs, he's like

measuring his sex.

This one.

Yeah, yeah.

And I speak about the ego.

The subconscious tells

a lot of things.

Very Freudian, maybe.

Very Freudian, yeah.

# Non, rien de rien

# Non, je ne regrette rien...

Cantona says he quit

football when he felt

his passion for the game

beginning to dim.

Could you see yourself playing

for Jose Mourinho, you know,

if you were a younger man?

Would you like to play for him,

his Manchester United?

If you play for Mourinho,

you will sure win something.

Do you like his style?

I don't really like the defensive

style, not his style,

it's more defensive.

When you see him and you see

Guardiola, which is the opposite.

It's like 40 years ago,

30 years ago, when we saw some

wonderful tennis game

between McEnroe and Bjorn Borg.

How do you think England might do

at the World Cup next year?

England's England.

They have good players,

very good players.

But me, if I was the manager

of England, I would not take

the team a month before.

Because I've seen English players

in England, just meet

a few hours before the game and go

on the pitch and give 100%.

And if they spend too

much time together

before the World Cup, they feel...

They start to be bored

and they want to go back home early.

Me, if I'm managing England, I take

the team, I take the best player,

and we meet just a few hours before,

or maybe the day before the game.

And I'm sure England

will do much much better.

Cantona's notorious for a karate

kick he aimed at a fan, Matthew

Simmons, at Crystal Palace,

after coming in for abuse.

How do you look back on that now?

I love it.

You still love it?

Yeah.

I love it and I don't regret...

PHONE RINGS

This is Simmons, no?

Do you regret this in any way,

because there is this view

that footballers are role

models for young people...

Yes, but I'm not a role model.

I always say that.

I'm not an example.

Even today, I'm not an example.

I never wanted to be an example.

I am just a human

being with emotions.

The Frenchman returned

to football after a ten

month ban and a spell

of community service.

What he said next became

one of the most famous

quotes in the game.

The lawyer from the club...

Because a lot of journalists

waiting for something.

And why do I have to say something?

He said, yeah, you have

to say something.

So, OK, I will say something.

Just say something

that comes to my mind.

When the seagulls...

Follow the trawler, it's

because they think sardines will be

thrown into the sea.

Thank you.

LAUGHTER

At the end of the day it was better

than if I was to speak.

We still speak about it today.

I had to work hard,

you know, dig deep inside.

I needed something to

fill me up when I was

on my own, something

to aim for, you know.

It's funny, innit.

Sometimes you forget

that you're just a man.

I'm not a man.

I am Cantona.

Cantona played himself

in Ken Loach's film Looking For Eric

offering life coaching to

a depressed postie and United fan.

Where does your

confidence come from?

You seem to have an extraordinary

self belief in yourself.

No.

I need to fill the cage.

You need to?

I need to fill in the cage,

in this room, kind of

escape, you know.

And then I will find

a way to escape.

And the feeling of

freedom is unbelievable.

And then I come back in the cage.

To have this feeling,

you know, for freedom.

It's wonderful.

But I'm not confident.

I just do it because if

I don't do it I die.

# Non, je ne regrette rien

Cantona's notebook will

surely appear in the

Christmas stockings of United fans.

Beyond that, who knows?

One thing is for sure,

King Eric will remain

characteristically philosophical.

If you put everything

in the balance,

you know, I think I did more good

things than bad things.

But when it's good, it's good, huh?

Yes.

And when it's bad, it's bad.

Eric Cantona. That is nearly it for

tonight. But before we go...

Coca Cola, the Big Mac and baseball

caps, there's no doubt America has

enriched our culture but but when it

comes to Black Friday we've got

some catching up to do.

We've back on cyber Monday.

Goodnight.

# We're S-H-O-PP-I-N-G

# We're shopping

# We're S-H-O-PP-I-N-G

# We're shopping...#

Good morning.