Browse content similar to 08/01/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Which Theresa May was it to be? | 0:00:07 | 0:00:10 | |
A bold Theresa May,
clearing out the Cabinet, | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
refreshing the government
with a reshuffle? | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
CRASHES. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:20 | |
Or a cautious Theresa May,
gently tidying the edges? | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
Probably, in the end, it was meant
to be a cautious reshuffle, | 0:00:25 | 0:00:29 | |
but it turned out not to quite be
the one Theresa May wanted. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:32 | |
We'll ask what it means
for the Prime Minister, | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
and the future of her government. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:41 | |
Also tonight... | 0:00:41 | 0:00:47 | |
In July 2017, I discovered the
enormous gap that the two men who | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
were international editors were
earning 50% more, at least, than the | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
two women who were international
editors. | 0:00:54 | 0:01:01 | |
Months on, and the BBC
pay row is unsolved. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:04 | |
We'll ask, how come? | 0:01:04 | 0:01:05 | |
Is it really that hard to crack? | 0:01:05 | 0:01:06 | |
Three months after the murder
of this investigative | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
journalist in Malta,
we're back on the island | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
to ask the Prime Minister
what impact her death had on him. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
She was a very specific risk critic
of many people. I might have been | 0:01:13 | 0:01:16 | |
top of that list. And this doesn't
the good on me. I'm very realistic | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
on this. Ladies and gentlemen, the
first Lady President of the United | 0:01:20 | 0:01:27 | |
States... | 0:01:27 | 0:01:28 | |
So could this really happen? | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
We'll hear why America is abuzz
with talk that Oprah Winfrey | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
might run for President. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
Hello. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
A lot of government
reshuffles don't go smoothly. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:43 | |
Today's was no exception. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:45 | |
There was the tweeting
of Chris Grayling's | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
elevation to Chairman
of the Conservative Party, | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
when the job in fact
went to Brandon Lewis. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
But that on its own wouldn't
make for a great episode | 0:01:53 | 0:01:55 | |
of The Thick of It. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
The real issue was that
Theresa May had built this | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
up as a major refresh,
and an assertion of her | 0:01:59 | 0:02:01 | |
renewed authority. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
But, in the end, it didn't quite
live up to that expectation, partly, | 0:02:03 | 0:02:12 | |
as it turned out,
because she could not make | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
all the changes she wanted. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:15 | |
So let's have a quick look
at the comings and goings: the big | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
star of the reshuffle
is David Lidington - | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
a little-known name,
he is the new Damian Green, | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
but will not be called
First Secretary of State | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
or Deputy Prime Minister. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:26 | |
He does have a big and
central role as the Prime | 0:02:26 | 0:02:28 | |
Minister's right-hand man. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:30 | |
But some other notable reshuffle
names were two men that didn't move: | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
Jeremy Hunt stays in health,
but gets a bigger departmental name: | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
Health and Social Care. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:40 | |
And Greg Clark stays
at the business department, | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
despite there being a lot of chatter
about him being kicked out. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
The Prime Minister couldn't shuffle
them, nor the education | 0:02:47 | 0:02:49 | |
secretary Justine Greening. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:55 | |
She's gone from Cabinet,
after refusing to move | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
from education to the Work
and Pensions department. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
The DWP now goes to Ester McVey,
a one-time TV presenter, | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
who has worked as a junior minister
in the department. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
Well, our political editor
Nick Watt is with me. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:14 | |
To me, it seems like a lot of people
are resisting the kind of plans | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
Theresa May may have them, an
unusual number of affected by them? | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
Yes, it has happened in the past
that ministers say I don't want to | 0:03:25 | 0:03:29 | |
move, and a weak Prime Minister
caves, and a strong Prime Minister | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
says no. Today was a score draw for
Theresa May because she said yes to | 0:03:33 | 0:03:40 | |
Jeremy Hunt who wanted to stay at
health, and no to Justine Greening. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:48 | |
Tory members are being pretty
critical, she started out as Michael | 0:03:48 | 0:03:53 | |
Howard said this morning strong and
able to do what you wanted and by | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
this evening showing she perhaps
can't fully assert her authority. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
But on day two of the reshuffle
tomorrow, the junior in the middle | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
ranks, we are told we will see many
more women, many more younger people | 0:04:04 | 0:04:08 | |
and much more Tory MPs from black
and minority ethnic minorities and | 0:04:08 | 0:04:13 | |
crucially the number of women
attending Cabinet goes up from eight | 0:04:13 | 0:04:18 | |
to ten. OK, David Liddington, a big
Euro fan, a known Remainer and he | 0:04:18 | 0:04:26 | |
has this key role. That's right, he
has the big Brexit role, and it is | 0:04:26 | 0:04:34 | |
chairing a series of Cabinet
committees on Brexit and domestic | 0:04:34 | 0:04:38 | |
policy whether Prime Minister is not
so focused, so she can focus | 0:04:38 | 0:04:43 | |
absolutely on the Brexit
negotiations and the domestic policy | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
of national security and the
economy. Now, he hasn't got the | 0:04:46 | 0:04:51 | |
first Secretary of State title, and
ministers who have gone to the | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
Cabinet Office with a great fanfare,
if they don't have something to tell | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
Whitehall they are a big beast, they
normally run into trouble. But David | 0:04:57 | 0:05:02 | |
Lidington has two things that tell
Whitehall he's a big beast. David | 0:05:02 | 0:05:07 | |
Lidington. He is well known and he
is well respected. So I've been | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
looking at this very long day that
didn't quite go to plan. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:19 | |
It has been a torrid six months for
Theresa May. Today was the moment | 0:05:19 | 0:05:24 | |
for the Prime Minister to finally
assert her authority over her | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
government and party after the
disastrous general election setback. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:33 | |
It all started so well when the
Prime Minister stood on the steps of | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
Downing Street to show off the new
group of MPs she hopes will | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
rejuvenate the Conservative Party.
But as the day wore on, the | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
reshuffle is started, and this
evening the Prime Minister was | 0:05:47 | 0:05:51 | |
shaken by the surprise resignation
of Justine Greening. Who spurned the | 0:05:51 | 0:05:56 | |
offer of a move to the Department
for Work and Pensions during a | 0:05:56 | 0:06:01 | |
two-hour visit to number ten. I
understand Theresa May and Justine | 0:06:01 | 0:06:07 | |
Greening have had a troubled
relationship. One person who knows | 0:06:07 | 0:06:12 | |
the Prime Minister's Mind told me
that she never really believed that | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
the outgoing Education Secretary had
signed up to many of the Tory school | 0:06:14 | 0:06:19 | |
reforms. For her part, Justine
Greening is furious with what she | 0:06:19 | 0:06:24 | |
regarded as negative press reports
about her in recent weeks. Over the | 0:06:24 | 0:06:29 | |
weekend, she told friends that she
was blaming Boris Johnson for | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
leading the charge against her,
after she raised questions about the | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
handling of Brexit in cabinet
meetings. Conservative MPs are | 0:06:37 | 0:06:43 | |
complaining to me that Theresa May
has emerged diminished from this | 0:06:43 | 0:06:47 | |
reshuffle after the resignation of
Justin Greening, and because other | 0:06:47 | 0:06:52 | |
ministers successfully resisted some
of the Prime Minister's original | 0:06:52 | 0:06:57 | |
plans. Jeremy Hunt spent more than
an hour in Downing Street, pleading | 0:06:57 | 0:07:00 | |
with the Prime Minister to keep his
job as Health Secretary, as he | 0:07:00 | 0:07:05 | |
resisted a proposed move to the
business department. The Prime | 0:07:05 | 0:07:09 | |
Minister eventually relented, and
finally granted him his wish, to be | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
given the additional responsibility
of social care. Others said Theresa | 0:07:13 | 0:07:20 | |
May has emerged from today
unscathed. I have described her as | 0:07:20 | 0:07:26 | |
Zebedee, because she is someone who
just pops up and has incredible | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
resilience, against all the odds. If
you look at all the difficulties | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
following the election, everything
that has happened since, she seems | 0:07:34 | 0:07:37 | |
to still be there, and I think she
made the right decision by having a | 0:07:37 | 0:07:41 | |
cabinet reshuffle at the beginning
of the year. Stamp her authority to | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
set an agenda from day one. The
Prime Minister learned today that | 0:07:44 | 0:07:49 | |
shuffling the pack is always a
fraught business. Where a bold | 0:07:49 | 0:07:55 | |
Theresa May sacked a series of
ministers on her first day in | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
Downing Street, 18 months later a
more timid Prime Minister trod | 0:07:58 | 0:08:04 | |
gingerly around this most delicate
process. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
We were due to be joined now
by the Tory MP Grant Shapps, | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
but he's been held up in parliament
at a vote. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:14 | |
We'll move on, and we'll
try to get to him later, | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
if the wheels of democracy start
moving more quickly. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:21 | |
In case you thought the BBC
gender pay controversy, | 0:08:21 | 0:08:24 | |
which erupted last summer,
had gone away, it hasn't! | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
It re-emerged last night
with the resignation | 0:08:26 | 0:08:27 | |
of Carrie Gracie as the BBC's China
Editor. | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
It was one of those
"only at the BBC" days - | 0:08:31 | 0:08:34 | |
she resigned from that post
on Sunday, then presented the Today | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
programme on Radio 4 this morning. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
But the real effect
of Carrie Gracie's move | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
is to highlight just how hard
the BBC is finding it | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
to solve the problem that
became evident last year. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:51 | |
# Money makes the world go round,
the world go round... | 0:08:51 | 0:08:56 | |
It is ironic that Easy Jet | 0:08:56 | 0:09:01 | |
published its own paygap last week,
far bigger than the BBC's - | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
but it has a clearer excuse. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:05 | |
Yes, women employees
earn 45% less than men - | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
but that is mainly accounted
for by the fact that few women | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
are pilots, and many of them
are flight attendants. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
Flight attendants get
paid less than pilots. | 0:09:13 | 0:09:14 | |
Nothing illegal about that,
as long women pilots and women | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
flight attendants get the same
as their male counterparts. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:27 | |
When I started the China job, I said
I would only do this job if I am | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
paid equally. And in July 2017I
discovered the enormous gap that the | 0:09:31 | 0:09:37 | |
two men who were international
editors were earning 50% more, at | 0:09:37 | 0:09:42 | |
least, than the two women who were
international editors. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
But Carrie Gracie's scathing
critique of the BBC is that she - | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
and many other women -
are getting less for | 0:09:49 | 0:09:51 | |
the same job as men. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:53 | |
Can the BBC defend that? | 0:09:53 | 0:10:01 | |
We did ask to speak to the BBC
today, but nobody was available. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
In a statement, the organisation
said that fairness in pay was vital, | 0:10:04 | 0:10:07 | |
and that the BBC was performing
better than some | 0:10:07 | 0:10:09 | |
other organisations. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:10 | |
The BBC has conducted
a judge-led audit of the pay | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
of most of its staff,
and is now doing a separate | 0:10:13 | 0:10:15 | |
review of on-air staff. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:16 | |
I'm joined now by lawyer
Jennifer Millins, who is | 0:10:16 | 0:10:18 | |
representing several of the women
taking cases against the BBC. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
Also here is Sian Kevill -
she's a TV executive who used to be | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
the editor of Newsnight,
before going on to be | 0:10:24 | 0:10:26 | |
the director of BBC World News. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
A very good evening to you both.
Jennifer, look, the review, is there | 0:10:29 | 0:10:34 | |
an argument here, the BBC is
reviewing on-air talent, they are | 0:10:34 | 0:10:38 | |
just waiting until that is out of
the way until the do anything. Is | 0:10:38 | 0:10:43 | |
that a fair defence? It is certainly
going to feed into a number of the | 0:10:43 | 0:10:47 | |
complaint and may give some answers
to some of those complaints. It may | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
just fuel the fire, though. We have
seen with the equal pay audits that | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
came out in October that very
studiously set-aside on-air talent | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
is being a little bit difficult to
deal with, that actually those | 0:10:59 | 0:11:03 | |
reports can themselves lead to
further questions about pay | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
disparity. Certainly there was a lot
made this morning by the BBC of the | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
fact there is no systematic
discrimination at the BBC, as Sir | 0:11:09 | 0:11:14 | |
Justice Alliance said, Patrick Alaia
said in his report last October, | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
when he was looking at the ABC equal
pay audits, but he also said that | 0:11:16 | 0:11:23 | |
did not rule out individual cases of
discrimination. So systematic bias | 0:11:23 | 0:11:31 | |
was ruled out. And that excluded
on-air talent completely. Sian, when | 0:11:31 | 0:11:39 | |
you were a manager, how difficult
was it to Sepe in a way that was | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
deemed to be fair, and comparative?
It is a very tricky position on pay. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:51 | |
As a manager, when you are giving
somebody a job, the first thing you | 0:11:51 | 0:11:54 | |
have to do is they come in with a
pay level, and that could have been | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
determined by all sorts of factors
way beyond your control. They may | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
have been tried to have been poached
at one point, they may have gone | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
into war zones, which required a
higher salary, they may have worked | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
in an area where it was highly
competitive. So you come in with | 0:12:07 | 0:12:12 | |
somebody with a salary, and then you
have to decide, you're very unlikely | 0:12:12 | 0:12:18 | |
to it. If somebody comes in with a
very low salary, you may give them a | 0:12:18 | 0:12:24 | |
huge increase but it is still not
comparable. And you have a duty to | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
try to defend the licence fee and
not just handed out. You want to | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
keep as much as you can to put on
screen as opposed to giving it to | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
people. Is a US edit of the same job
as the China editor, because I know | 0:12:37 | 0:12:42 | |
in a way that is Carrie Gracie's
argument, these are two | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
international editors, one is a man,
one is a woman? I was quite shocked | 0:12:46 | 0:12:50 | |
when I heard about the disparity.
Listening to the coverage today. And | 0:12:50 | 0:12:55 | |
I think it is difficult when you
have a job title which is the same. | 0:12:55 | 0:13:01 | |
When you have a same job title, it
does seem to denote that you have | 0:13:01 | 0:13:06 | |
roughly the same sort of salary, and
even Carrie wasn't asking for | 0:13:06 | 0:13:10 | |
absolute equivalents. There could
have been some disparity, the scale | 0:13:10 | 0:13:15 | |
of the disparity. So are the
differences between the two jobs? | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
Well, there are, but it is very
difficult, it is incredibly | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
difficult to try and work out
whether covering the manic stuff | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
going on in the Trump White House is
the same as dealing with the | 0:13:29 | 0:13:35 | |
oppression of a Chinese regime.
Jennifer, you would agree that if | 0:13:35 | 0:13:40 | |
some reason the BBC created a
Kazakhstan editor of not be the same | 0:13:40 | 0:13:44 | |
job as a US edit or a China editor,
and with that excepted legally when | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
you sit down and give legal advice?
There is a whole melting pot of | 0:13:48 | 0:13:54 | |
factors as to whether there is legal
equivalents for men and women in | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
their jobs and in pay. That is why
these claims are very difficult to | 0:13:57 | 0:14:01 | |
bring but they are also pretty
difficult to defend, as well. There | 0:14:01 | 0:14:05 | |
is a fact -based analysis that
explicit that really values the | 0:14:05 | 0:14:11 | |
worth of the individual, as compared
to the e-mail they are comparing | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
themselves against. What is your
advice to the BBC as to how to deal | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
with this, because they don't want
to spend money, they have an | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
obligation to the licence payer,
difficult to go to the men and say, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
put your salaries down, or maybe
they should do that, and difficult | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
to find all the money that the women
are claiming. What is your advice? | 0:14:29 | 0:14:32 | |
is an issue of the BBC not wanting
to spend money and not wanting to | 0:14:32 | 0:14:37 | |
spend more licence fee payers' money
but this is an issue about money, | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
Carrie was clear she didn't want to
be paid more, she wanted equality | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
but it boils down to the issue of
pay and how much people are paid, | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
and the legal redress for these
claims is to address that through | 0:14:48 | 0:14:53 | |
pay, applying a pay equality clause.
That take some time as well. Backpay | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
of up to six years. That could be
expensive. It could well be and if I | 0:14:57 | 0:15:03 | |
were advising the BBC I would say
they need to deal with individual | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
complaints properly which they have
struggled to do so far in genuine | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
fashion, but also they need to look
at their own data and not just quote | 0:15:10 | 0:15:14 | |
them gender pay statistics, which is
a different issue and a different | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
analysis, but to look at their
statistics. They have all the data, | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
the individuals don't have that
data. I'm afraid we need to leave it | 0:15:21 | 0:15:24 | |
there, thank you both indeed. We are
going to go back to politics now and | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
Grant Shapps can join as. He was
Tory Party Chairman and David | 0:15:28 | 0:15:33 | |
Cameron and was outed last year as
being the ringleader of a failed | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
plot to remove Theresa May as Prime
Minister. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
He's finished voting
and joins me from Westminster. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
Good evening. What was your
impression of the reshuffle, how was | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
it handled? I'm not sure having a
group of colleagues that wanted to | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
talk to the Prime Minister qualifies
as a plot. But, look, I thought | 0:15:50 | 0:15:56 | |
clearly, let's be blunt, it wasn't a
brilliantly executed performance | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
with the reshuffle today. They are
very difficult things to get right | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
as I recall from time spent when I
was chairman inside Downing Street | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
looking out. But actually buried in
the reshuffle I thought there were a | 0:16:07 | 0:16:13 | |
couple of really good ideas, which I
suspect won't quite get the coverage | 0:16:13 | 0:16:18 | |
tomorrow. But I hope will matter in
the long run. One of which was | 0:16:18 | 0:16:22 | |
creating a Ministry of Housing,
Communities and Local Government. I | 0:16:22 | 0:16:24 | |
used to be housing Minister and
always thought it was ridiculous | 0:16:24 | 0:16:27 | |
that housing didn't have its own
seat around the table as Secretary | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
of State in Cabinet and that was
really good. The other move which I | 0:16:31 | 0:16:36 | |
thought was quite smart but will
take some working out is taking | 0:16:36 | 0:16:40 | |
health, Jeremy Hunt is there still,
but bringing in social care, which | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
although not everyone will know the
complexities of this, actually comes | 0:16:43 | 0:16:46 | |
from local councils at the moment,
and that means it's actually under | 0:16:46 | 0:16:52 | |
what was Communities and Local
Government. The problem is you get | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
bed blocking of the problems you
hear about and bringing those | 0:16:55 | 0:16:57 | |
together makes sense. I was confused
on both of those because I thought | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
housing was in the DCLG, so it's
just a rebranding, and I thought a | 0:17:01 | 0:17:05 | |
lot of social care was in the
Department of Health, so that was a | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
rebranding. On the first one you are
absolutely right, housing was in | 0:17:09 | 0:17:14 | |
DCLG, Communities and Local
Government, but I can say this as a | 0:17:14 | 0:17:17 | |
fact, when sitting around the
Cabinet table people respond to the | 0:17:17 | 0:17:20 | |
thing they think is most on your
agenda, and by calling it the | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
Ministry of Housing, I noticed that
they said they will call it a | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
Ministry rather than a department,
by calling it a Ministry, which is | 0:17:29 | 0:17:32 | |
an historic name for that
department, will give a lot more | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
focus to what the government says is
one of its big priorities, building | 0:17:35 | 0:17:39 | |
more homes. I thought there was some
sense in that. And on social care | 0:17:39 | 0:17:45 | |
budget, no, the money actually comes
through the local council, the local | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
authority side of things, and that
makes it complicated. Let me move on | 0:17:48 | 0:17:52 | |
because I want to ask you, do you
still think where we are now, that | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
she should step down, or do you
think it's time for her to pause? Do | 0:17:56 | 0:18:01 | |
you think there is enough young
talent to which the party and the | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
country being exposed, so that when
there a leadership election they can | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
skip a generation if they want to?
I'm probably more or less unique in | 0:18:07 | 0:18:13 | |
saying what I actually think about
it, my view hasn't changed, nor do I | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
think there is any point in banging
on about it, I want Theresa May does | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
exceed because I want the party to
succeed because I don't want to see | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
Jeremy Corbyn's Marxist government
come in and destroy lives and jobs | 0:18:24 | 0:18:27 | |
in this country. My view hasn't
changed but I also recognise there | 0:18:27 | 0:18:30 | |
is a lot of great talent. The other
good thing today was seeing some of | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
the talent, through, albeit perhaps
slightly odd to focus on the party | 0:18:34 | 0:18:39 | |
changes, which is where a lot of
that talent was seen. Whereas, it | 0:18:39 | 0:18:44 | |
must a couple of good changes in
part, which I think will take some | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
months and probably years to work
through the system but could | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
actually help deliver better health
and social care together and better | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
housing in this country. There was
good stuff strangely buried in a | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
reshuffle which didn't quite go to
plan. Grant Shapps, thank you very | 0:18:57 | 0:19:01 | |
much indeed. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:02 | |
Could it really happen? | 0:19:02 | 0:19:03 | |
Oprah Winfrey as a US president? | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
The talk show queen is of course one
female TV presenter who literally | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
no-one thinks is badly remunerated -
and after a well-received speech | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
at the Golden Globes last night,
all the talk today is that she might | 0:19:12 | 0:19:15 | |
run for the White House in 2020. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
A new day is on the horizon! | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
CHEERING. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:29 | |
And when that new day finally dawns,
it will be because of a lot | 0:19:29 | 0:19:33 | |
of magnificent women,
many of whom are right | 0:19:33 | 0:19:35 | |
here in this room tonight! | 0:19:35 | 0:19:41 | |
CHEERING. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:43 | |
Thank you! | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
Well, for liberals,
disheartened by Trump, | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
Oprah is a sense of hope
of a new popular champion | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
for their cause emerging. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:54 | |
This talk of President Winfrey
actually goes back some months, | 0:19:54 | 0:19:56 | |
but the bookies' odds have
shortened massively today. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
Even though she has no
political experience, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:01 | |
and has never run for,
or held, office, CNN says some | 0:20:01 | 0:20:04 | |
of her friends say she's
now considering a run. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
If she did, and assuming
Donald Trump fancied a second term, | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
the 2020 US election would be quite
a battle - apart from both | 0:20:09 | 0:20:13 | |
being billionaire TV stars,
in every other respect the two | 0:20:13 | 0:20:18 | |
are almost comical opposites. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:19 | |
Let's discuss this. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
Joining me from Atlanta
is Anoa Changa - she's an activist | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
and journalist who backed
Bernie Sanders in the last | 0:20:26 | 0:20:28 | |
Democrat primary. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:30 | |
Good evening to you. First of all,
will she ran? Well, I think that's | 0:20:30 | 0:20:40 | |
up to Oprah, Oprah is definitely a
woman who has charted her own path | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
over the last several decades in her
career from good morning Chicago, to | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
her own show, to movies and this
whole empire she has built, so | 0:20:48 | 0:20:53 | |
whether or not she runs, we will all
wait to see what Oprah ultimately | 0:20:53 | 0:20:58 | |
does. Whether or not she should run,
I guess that will be up to her and | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
her confidence in her team whether
or not that is something she should | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
do.. Delegate it to her, would you
like her to run? Would you be | 0:21:06 | 0:21:11 | |
excited? Me personally? Yes. I
wouldn't be super excited, I | 0:21:11 | 0:21:17 | |
wouldn't be upset but I really think
American voters need to get away | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
from our obsession with celebrity.
The focus on celebrity in the 2016 | 0:21:21 | 0:21:25 | |
presidential general election here
really overshadowed the need to | 0:21:25 | 0:21:30 | |
focus on actual everyday Americans
and the issues that are affecting | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
people and doing real groundwork.
One of the flaws I saw with Hillary | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
Clinton, Secretary Clinton's
campaign, was relying heavily on | 0:21:38 | 0:21:44 | |
celebrity friends and supporters,
instead of actually getting out | 0:21:44 | 0:21:45 | |
there with the people. When you look
at battle ground states like Hohaia, | 0:21:45 | 0:21:54 | |
Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin
where she never campaigned people | 0:21:54 | 0:21:56 | |
were clamouring for the leadership
to talk to them, not necessarily the | 0:21:56 | 0:22:01 | |
charisma of the leadership at the
top -- Ohio. If Oprah were to run | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
and she was the person, hopefully
she would have policies and | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
initiatives on the table that would
really speak to the American public, | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
particularly those across the board
who are struggling, who are thinking | 0:22:12 | 0:22:17 | |
about jobs, education, climate
change, internationally, I'm sure, | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
you would all like to see a leader
that is taking so many things, | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
global security, into consideration.
Am I going to be super excited? No. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:32 | |
You say you have the policies would
be to the American people, but she | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
is someone who has a powerful
ability to speak to the American | 0:22:35 | 0:22:38 | |
people. She would surely engage a
lot of voters, wouldn't she? I | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 | |
wonder whether she would win because
essentially there would be a lot of | 0:22:42 | 0:22:46 | |
voters who may be sometimes don't
vote who would come out and vote for | 0:22:46 | 0:22:49 | |
her. I don't know that a lot of
voters who didn't usually vote would | 0:22:49 | 0:22:56 | |
come out and vote for her. Again, we
saw so many celebrities come out on | 0:22:56 | 0:23:00 | |
the Trail, we had Katy Perry, major
firebrands, Jay-Z and Beyonce | 0:23:00 | 0:23:05 | |
throwing concerts in Cleveland in
2016 and still didn't see the voter | 0:23:05 | 0:23:09 | |
turnout. For Oprah or whoever
amongst the celebrity double crowd | 0:23:09 | 0:23:14 | |
who would step up to the challenge
of running for President, we would | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
really need to see them digging in
on the issues. Oprah gave a rousing | 0:23:17 | 0:23:27 | |
speech yesterday but we need more
than speeches, we have heard | 0:23:27 | 0:23:31 | |
wonderful eloquent people talk but
we need policies right now. We have | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
millions uninsured in America. I
just spent 14 hours in an ER | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
yesterday with my younger sister who
does not have health insurance. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
Aintree is great but I need to know
what's going to be done to address | 0:23:43 | 0:23:46 | |
young students like my sister who
have conditions that need treatment | 0:23:46 | 0:23:50 | |
and they have to sit in an emergency
room for care. Anoa Changa, your | 0:23:50 | 0:23:55 | |
scepticism has come across well.
Thank you so much indeed. Thanks. | 0:23:55 | 0:24:00 | |
Back in October,
an investigative journalist | 0:24:00 | 0:24:01 | |
was assassinated in Malta. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:04 | |
The death of Daphne Caruana Galizia
put the island in the headlines | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
for all the wrong reasons,
bringing international attention | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
to accusations of corruption
and organised crime. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:14 | |
Caruana Galizia had many enemies,
including the Maltese Prime | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
Minister, he condemned
the killing as barbaric, | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
and called on foreign | 0:24:19 | 0:24:24 | |
security services to help
with the investigation into it - | 0:24:24 | 0:24:26 | |
we'll hear from him shortly. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
John Sweeney reported on the story
for us in the immediate aftermath, | 0:24:28 | 0:24:30 | |
and has been back to Malta. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
Fortress Malta has for centuries
been virtually impregnable. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
Foreign invaders repelled
by its defences, | 0:24:37 | 0:24:38 | |
an island standing alone
in the Mediterranean. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:48 | |
But now Malta is in danger
of falling to dirty money. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:54 | |
And the one journalist who dared
the most to tell their story | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
has been assassinated. | 0:24:57 | 0:24:58 | |
Daphne Caruana Galizia
spent her life asking questions of | 0:24:58 | 0:25:00 | |
those in power. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:01 | |
Questions about the sale
of passports, questions about | 0:25:01 | 0:25:07 | |
government corruption, questions
about a breakdown in the rule | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
of law. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
Her assassination may have
silenced her, but the questions she | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
was asking, they haven't gone away. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:15 | |
What on earth is going on on Malta? | 0:25:15 | 0:25:19 | |
Daphne Caruana Galizia was Malta's
most fearless | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
investigative journalist. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
She was blown up in October driving
away from her house. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:27 | |
The fifth person to die in a car
bomb in seven years. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:32 | |
We're on our way to
the scene of the crime. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
Three men have been charged. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:38 | |
They deny the murder. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
Newspapers in Italy and Malta have
reported investigators | 0:25:42 | 0:25:47 | |
triangulated their whereabouts
by tracking mobile phone use at the | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
moment the bomb went off. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:54 | |
The police believe there
was a spotter on land on a hill | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
overlooking the road down
which Daphne Caruana Galizia | 0:25:58 | 0:26:00 | |
was driving. | 0:26:00 | 0:26:02 | |
Once the spotter had
identified Daphne he then | 0:26:02 | 0:26:04 | |
phoned his accomplice. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
He's the trigger man
and he's on a boat offshore. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:10 | |
The triggerman presses a button
and a remote-control device | 0:26:10 | 0:26:13 | |
explodes underneath Daphne's car. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
And the journalist is dead. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
The waters that
Daphne was fishing in | 0:26:21 | 0:26:23 | |
were much darker than
even she imagined. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:27 | |
The three accused worked
in a warehouse and had been | 0:26:27 | 0:26:29 | |
suspected of underworld activity. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:32 | |
They'd never crossed Daphne's radar. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
Many suspect they were hired hands. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:43 | |
Daphne has never ever mentioned
these three persons in none of her | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
20,000 articles plus. | 0:26:45 | 0:26:48 | |
So, it's obvious, and
it's an open secret, | 0:26:48 | 0:26:56 | |
that these are not the persons who
commissioned the murder and we will | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
not rest until we know who
commissioned the murder and what was | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
the motive. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:03 | |
Jason Azzopardi believes
the question is not who | 0:27:03 | 0:27:05 | |
carried out the killing
but who ordered the hit. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:10 | |
Over the years Daphne
worked on many stories and | 0:27:10 | 0:27:12 | |
made a lot of enemies
on the island and beyond. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:19 | |
At the time of her death Daphne
was working on four major | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
investigations. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:23 | |
First, the sale of Maltese
passports, a trade worth 310 | 0:27:23 | 0:27:26 | |
million euro to people
from outside the European Union. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:31 | |
Malta is the only state
in the EU that sells | 0:27:31 | 0:27:33 | |
passports so aggressively
in this fashion. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:39 | |
Some worry that many buying those
passports are dodgy and so is | 0:27:39 | 0:27:43 | |
their money, that Malta
is being used as a back door by rich | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
Russian gangsters and others
to enter the EU. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
The passport scheme. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:54 | |
The source of corruption. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:55 | |
Who's buying these passports? | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
The majority, it seems to be
Russians and middle easterns, but | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
principally Russians. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:05 | |
And are they honest
law-abiding hard-working | 0:28:05 | 0:28:06 | |
Russian citizens? | 0:28:06 | 0:28:07 | |
What I can say is that the due
diligence leaves much | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
to be desired, in the sense that the
European Commission demanded a | 0:28:10 | 0:28:13 | |
12-month residency
requirement, whereas | 0:28:13 | 0:28:14 | |
these people are barely
spending one-hour in Malta. | 0:28:14 | 0:28:17 | |
The passport trade brings
so many millions of | 0:28:17 | 0:28:19 | |
euros into government coffers that
the Prime Minister travels the world | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
flogging Maltese citizenship. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
But Daphne's murder
has opened a can of | 0:28:26 | 0:28:31 | |
worms, and many of those worms
are at the heart of government. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:36 | |
Manuel Delia is a blogger
and investigative | 0:28:36 | 0:28:38 | |
journalist. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:39 | |
He hopes to carry on Daphne's work. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
He's installed extra
security in his home. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:46 | |
The Prime Minister is
the front man for the | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
promotion and let's be clear,
they are selling European passports. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
It's true it has an
Maltese coat of arms | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
on the front. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:55 | |
But this gives them freedom
of movement, of themselves | 0:28:55 | 0:28:57 | |
and of their capital
throughout Europe. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:04 | |
It's Republic Day on Malta. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:06 | |
Ties with Britain, the old colonial
power, still linger. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:15 | |
Prime Minister and passport
seller in Chief Joseph | 0:29:15 | 0:29:16 | |
Muscat reviews the troops. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:21 | |
Daphne's second target
was a group of senior | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
government figures, including
the Prime Minister's wife Michelle | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
Muscat, alleged to be making
use of secretive shell | 0:29:28 | 0:29:30 | |
companies in Panama. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:36 | |
The Panama Papers scandal revealed
that the Prime Minister's Chief of | 0:29:36 | 0:29:39 | |
Staff, Keith Schembri, and senior
minister Konrad Mizzi own shell | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
companies in Panama. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:48 | |
All concerned deny any wrongdoing. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:52 | |
One senior investigator
in the island's | 0:29:52 | 0:29:53 | |
anti-money-laundering unit was
looking into the scandal when he was | 0:29:53 | 0:29:55 | |
called in to his boss's office. | 0:29:55 | 0:30:00 | |
This summer you were
investigating two of | 0:30:00 | 0:30:05 | |
the Prime Minister's closest
associates and a company widely | 0:30:05 | 0:30:07 | |
believed to have been
owned by his wife. | 0:30:07 | 0:30:09 | |
What happened to you then? | 0:30:09 | 0:30:10 | |
They fired me and they
fired my colleague. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
Was that a proper thing
for the government of Malta to do? | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
It is highly unethical
and we believe there was political | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
interference. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:25 | |
Were you got at by the
Prime Minister's office? | 0:30:25 | 0:30:27 | |
I don't know by whom
but for sure the | 0:30:27 | 0:30:29 | |
mastermind of this all wants
to keep things secret. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:38 | |
The suspicion is that the secretive
shell companies that | 0:30:38 | 0:30:40 | |
emerged in the Panama Papers
could be used to receive bribes. | 0:30:40 | 0:30:43 | |
Jonathan Ferris believes
there is something | 0:30:43 | 0:30:44 | |
rotten in the state of Malta. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
He's got some police
protection but he's | 0:30:46 | 0:30:48 | |
all too aware of what could happen. | 0:30:48 | 0:30:58 | |
Following 16th October,
what happened to Daphne Caruana | 0:31:00 | 0:31:02 | |
Galizia, I sat down,
I divided my notes and | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
my workings and my information
into six different envelopes with | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
specific notes. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 | |
They are distributed to six
members of family, friends | 0:31:09 | 0:31:16 | |
and close friends, and should
something happen to me abruptly, | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
let's say I'm killed,
all that information | 0:31:21 | 0:31:23 | |
will go public at once. | 0:31:23 | 0:31:30 | |
Her third major investigation
was into Pilatus Bank, run by | 0:31:30 | 0:31:33 | |
an Iranian. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:34 | |
Clients of the bank are believed
to include children of Ilham Aliyev | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
President of the fabulously corrupt
regime of Azerbaijan. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:44 | |
In her blog, Daphne argued
that Malta was fast | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
becoming world money-laundering
central and she leaked a report by | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
Malta's anti-money-laundering
agency into the bank. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:55 | |
The report accused the bank
of turning a blind eye to | 0:31:55 | 0:31:57 | |
proper compliance and highlighted
systemic issues of grave concern. | 0:31:57 | 0:32:05 | |
After Daphne leaked that report,
the findings of a second report into | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
Pilatus Bank by the
anti-money-laundering | 0:32:08 | 0:32:09 | |
agency emerged. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:14 | |
That said that its shortcomings
no longer subsist. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:16 | |
The bank, which is housed in this
building in the letter, such the | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
second report and other
evidence to say the | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
allegations against it
are | 0:32:21 | 0:32:22 | |
false and baseless, and it
complies with all its | 0:32:22 | 0:32:24 | |
anti-money-laundering obligations. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:30 | |
Daphne also alleged that
a whistle-blower told her that a | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
company owned by the Azerbaijan
President's daughter paid $1 million | 0:32:33 | 0:32:35 | |
to a Panama company owned by
the Prime Minister's wife, Michelle | 0:32:35 | 0:32:38 | |
Muscat. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:46 | |
All concerned deny any wrongdoing. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:51 | |
But the fear is that Malta
is making it too easy for | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
dirty money to get into the EU. | 0:32:54 | 0:33:01 | |
If you have nothing
to hide, you don't | 0:33:01 | 0:33:02 | |
go set up secret accounts in Panama. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:04 | |
You go to your local Barclays. | 0:33:04 | 0:33:08 | |
On Malta the rule
of law does not seem | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
to bite on the Prime
Minister and his clique. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:17 | |
A group of Euro MPs who visited
Malta after Daphne's murder | 0:33:17 | 0:33:20 | |
found there was a perception
of impunity on the island. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
Roberta Metsola is a Maltese MEP. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
What we mean by rule
of law is that the | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
institutions work,
that the government | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
is at the service of
the | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
judiciary and not
the other way round. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:36 | |
That when a crime is committed
you have to have faith in | 0:33:36 | 0:33:39 | |
law enforcement so that that crime
is investigated and solved. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:41 | |
That if you break any
rule of our criminal | 0:33:41 | 0:33:43 | |
or civil code then you are
prosecuted and you are made to pay | 0:33:43 | 0:33:46 | |
for what you've done. | 0:33:46 | 0:33:52 | |
Roberta Metsola says
Daphne was aware she | 0:33:52 | 0:33:54 | |
was getting into treacherous waters. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:57 | |
She has realised that
what she was doing was | 0:33:57 | 0:33:59 | |
dangerous and I think
that | 0:33:59 | 0:34:01 | |
came to a fateful and unfortunately,
and she was right. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:03 | |
This country will forever be
grateful for her work and | 0:34:03 | 0:34:05 | |
her sense of ignoring her personal
security in order to get the truth. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:13 | |
Daphne's fourth investigation raised
questions about the integrity of the | 0:34:13 | 0:34:15 | |
economics minister Chris Cardona. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
She alleged that Mr Cardona
went to a brothel | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
whilst at a conference in Germany. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
He sued, saying he was
in his hotel room. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
Daphne got a court order
to obtain his mobile phone | 0:34:28 | 0:34:30 | |
records to pinpoint his whereabouts. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:34 | |
They've yet to be released,
but the case continues. | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
If Cardona loses, he is finished
as a politician and a lawyer. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:43 | |
Mr Cardona denied any wrongdoing,
and declined our request | 0:34:43 | 0:34:45 | |
for an interview, citing ongoing
legal proceedings, including his | 0:34:45 | 0:34:47 | |
libel action against
Daphne Caruana Galizia's estate. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:55 | |
There's a gang that has
taken over the government | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
of this country and that gang is
concerned with its self-preservation | 0:34:58 | 0:35:00 | |
and has eroded the power and
the authority of institutions that | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
should be independent of government. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:13 | |
Daphne Caruana Galizia shone a light
on Malta's dark underworld. | 0:35:27 | 0:35:37 | |
Her murder, was it
proof that she was onto | 0:35:40 | 0:35:42 | |
something, proof that someone
powerful wanted that light | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
switched off? | 0:35:44 | 0:35:45 | |
Was it proof of Malta's shame? | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
John Sweeney there. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:50 | |
Government minister Konrad Mizzi
told the BBC that the Panamanian | 0:35:50 | 0:35:52 | |
company he owned had never traded
or had a bank account. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:57 | |
He said he had properly
declared his ownership | 0:35:57 | 0:35:59 | |
of the company in a ministerial
declaration of interests in 2015. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
The Prime Minister's chief
of staff Keith Schembri said | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
that the Panamanian company owned
by him was never used. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:11 | |
But, he said, "with hindsight,
I realise that it was probably not | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
the right call, purely based
on the fact that perceptions | 0:36:14 | 0:36:16 | |
matter as well". | 0:36:16 | 0:36:17 | |
Malta's anti-money laundering
agency, the FIAU said that | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
Jonathan Ferris's dismissal
was based on an objective assessment | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
of his performance and did not
involve any political interference. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:33 | |
Well, Malta's Prime Minister Joseph
Muscat has given Newsnight | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
an interview about all of this. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:36 | |
John met up with him in Valetta. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:37 | |
What's been the effect
of her assassination | 0:36:38 | 0:36:39 | |
on your own standing, sir? | 0:36:39 | 0:36:41 | |
Well, bad, definitely,
because that's not something that | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
any Prime Minister would want. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:47 | |
She was a very vociferous
critic of many people. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:52 | |
I might have been
the top of that list. | 0:36:52 | 0:36:55 | |
And this doesn't look good on me. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
I'm very realistic on this. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:02 | |
Besides her family,
I think if there is one | 0:37:02 | 0:37:04 | |
person that has suffered
from | 0:37:04 | 0:37:06 | |
this assassination it's us, just
because this long shadow has been | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
cast on us. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:18 | |
One week after Daphne's
assassination where were | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
you and what were you doing? | 0:37:23 | 0:37:24 | |
One week? | 0:37:24 | 0:37:25 | |
One week. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:26 | |
The week after. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:27 | |
I wouldn't know, honestly. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:28 | |
You were in Dubai,
signing passports. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
Oh, right. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:31 | |
For 650,000 euros. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:32 | |
I wasn't... | 0:37:32 | 0:37:33 | |
We don't sell. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:35 | |
We have, as other European
jurisdictions, other | 0:37:35 | 0:37:42 | |
European countries, systems
by which, and programmes, | 0:37:42 | 0:37:44 | |
and ours is the most
transparent and open programme, | 0:37:44 | 0:37:50 | |
people can invest in our country,
can have residence | 0:37:50 | 0:37:52 | |
and even citizenship. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:53 | |
Who's buying these passports? | 0:37:53 | 0:37:54 | |
Well, various people,
wealthy people. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:56 | |
Wealth doesn't buy you
the right to citizenship. | 0:37:56 | 0:38:00 | |
I had some... | 0:38:00 | 0:38:01 | |
It helps if you've got
650,000 euros, though. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
It helps but it doesn't
mean that you would get | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
access to our programme. | 0:38:06 | 0:38:08 | |
The law, though, says
that the minister responsible, | 0:38:08 | 0:38:10 | |
and I believe that's you,
the Prime Minister, | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
can override a problem. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
For example, if somebody's got
a criminal record or is under | 0:38:16 | 0:38:18 | |
criminal investigation... | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
No, the system has
never been overridden. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:24 | |
Tell me about your family's
relationship with the first | 0:38:24 | 0:38:26 | |
family of Azerbaijan. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
Well, I met President Aliyev,
I believe, twice in Baku, a number | 0:38:29 | 0:38:33 | |
of times when we were at the EU
Eastern Partnership summits. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:43 | |
Mrs Aliyev came here once,
she met with my wife. | 0:38:44 | 0:38:50 | |
That's it. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:51 | |
That's the relationship. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:54 | |
Nothing more? | 0:38:54 | 0:38:55 | |
Nothing more. | 0:38:55 | 0:38:57 | |
Daphne said there was a lot more. | 0:38:57 | 0:39:01 | |
$1 million. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
Well, you know, I don't think
you can hide $1 million. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:08 | |
I don't think you can hide $100. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:09 | |
Definitely not in a bank. | 0:39:09 | 0:39:10 | |
Definitely not anywhere
else, you know? | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
Does Malta have a problem
with money-laundering? | 0:39:13 | 0:39:17 | |
I don't feel comfortable in saying
no, we don't have any problems, | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
or yes, we have problems. | 0:39:20 | 0:39:25 | |
I'd say we have as many problems
as any other jurisdiction, | 0:39:25 | 0:39:32 | |
be it the City of London,
be it Luxembourg, the Netherlands, | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
when it comes to making sure
that we comply with the rules. | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
And anyway I don't want to be seen,
I know I'm in a quite uncomfortable | 0:39:38 | 0:39:41 | |
situation having to criticise
someone who has been killed | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
brutally, but I hope we are not
in a situation where in any | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
democracy, situations are such
where if someone writes | 0:39:48 | 0:39:50 | |
something on social media,
that is stated as fact. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:56 | |
Although you are doing
exactly that, aren't you? | 0:39:56 | 0:39:58 | |
She was killed brutally and you're
saying that at least some | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
of the time she was writing gossip. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:03 | |
Yes. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:04 | |
She had evidence. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:05 | |
You don't agree with it. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:06 | |
You don't think it's right. | 0:40:06 | 0:40:07 | |
But she did have evidence. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:08 | |
She's got a whistle-blower... | 0:40:08 | 0:40:10 | |
No, I totally disagree because I
read exactly what she said. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:14 | |
So, first of all there isn't
a shred, not only of proof | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
but of truth in what she said,
all of this. | 0:40:17 | 0:40:24 | |
She based herself on a person
calling herself a whistle-blower | 0:40:24 | 0:40:26 | |
and the account of this
whistle-blower was dubious, | 0:40:26 | 0:40:28 | |
to say the least. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
What I am saying is that not
only if there is evidence, | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
if there is even the whiff of any
evidence I would resign on the spot. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:41 | |
And yes, I'm sorry, the issue
with Mrs Caruana Galizia | 0:40:41 | 0:40:44 | |
is that she has said things that
were facts, she wrote stories that | 0:40:44 | 0:40:49 | |
were cutting edge but then these
were coupled with things | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
that were false. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:56 | |
Now, I don't know that
whether she knew what she was saying | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
against me or about me was false,
whether she was part of this | 0:40:59 | 0:41:02 | |
invention, or whether she was fed
the story by this whistle-blower, | 0:41:02 | 0:41:07 | |
or someone else, and maybe it looked
too true, too good not to be true, | 0:41:07 | 0:41:13 | |
let's put it that way,
because it fitted the narrative that | 0:41:13 | 0:41:16 | |
some people wanted to put in. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
The charge in a nutshell is that
you're the artful dodger of Europe. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:24 | |
Well, if that is the charge I'm
definitely not guilty of that. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:30 | |
I think it's, you know,
preposterous. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:36 | |
I do believe that our success story
as a country might not go | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
down well with others. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:43 | |
But it is a success story that
will continue for a long time. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:51 | |
After Daphne Caruana
Galizia's assassination, | 0:41:51 | 0:41:52 | |
her son Matthew wrote, | 0:41:52 | 0:41:59 | |
if institutions were already
working, there would | 0:41:59 | 0:42:01 | |
be no assassinations | 0:42:01 | 0:42:01 | |
to investigate and my brothers
and I, we'd still have a mother. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
What do you say to that? | 0:42:04 | 0:42:06 | |
Well, I have made it very clear that
I would never take issue with... | 0:42:06 | 0:42:10 | |
People who have lost their mother
in such a brutal assassination. | 0:42:10 | 0:42:20 | |
I've said myself that if my mother
was killed in such instances | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
I would say much worse
things than that. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:25 | |
Prime Minister, thank you. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:26 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:27 | |
Thank you. | 0:42:27 | 0:42:28 | |
Thank you. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
John Sweetie talking to the premise
to Malta. It will be me back here | 0:42:32 | 0:42:39 | |
tomorrow, in the meantime, good
night. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:46 |