08/01/2018 Newsnight


08/01/2018

An analysis of Theresa May's cabinet reshuffle. The latest on the BBC gender pay gap story. Could Oprah Winfrey run for president? And a look at corruption in Malta.


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Transcript


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Which Theresa May was it to be?

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A bold Theresa May,

clearing out the Cabinet,

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refreshing the government

with a reshuffle?

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CRASHES.

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Or a cautious Theresa May,

gently tidying the edges?

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Probably, in the end, it was meant

to be a cautious reshuffle,

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but it turned out not to quite be

the one Theresa May wanted.

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We'll ask what it means

for the Prime Minister,

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and the future of her government.

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Also tonight...

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In July 2017, I discovered the

enormous gap that the two men who

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were international editors were

earning 50% more, at least, than the

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two women who were international

editors.

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Months on, and the BBC

pay row is unsolved.

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We'll ask, how come?

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Is it really that hard to crack?

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Three months after the murder

of this investigative

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journalist in Malta,

we're back on the island

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to ask the Prime Minister

what impact her death had on him.

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She was a very specific risk critic

of many people. I might have been

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top of that list. And this doesn't

the good on me. I'm very realistic

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on this.

Ladies and gentlemen, the

first Lady President of the United

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States...

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So could

this

really happen?

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We'll hear why America is abuzz

with talk that Oprah Winfrey

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might run for President.

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Hello.

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A lot of government

reshuffles don't go smoothly.

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Today's was no exception.

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There was the tweeting

of Chris Grayling's

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elevation to Chairman

of the Conservative Party,

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when the job in fact

went to Brandon Lewis.

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But that on its own wouldn't

make for a great episode

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of The Thick of It.

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The real issue was that

Theresa May had built this

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up as a major refresh,

and an assertion of her

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renewed authority.

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But, in the end, it didn't quite

live up to that expectation, partly,

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as it turned out,

because she could not make

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all the changes she wanted.

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So let's have a quick look

at the comings and goings: the big

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star of the reshuffle

is David Lidington -

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a little-known name,

he is the new Damian Green,

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but will not be called

First Secretary of State

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or Deputy Prime Minister.

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He does have a big and

central role as the Prime

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Minister's right-hand man.

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But some other notable reshuffle

names were two men that didn't move:

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Jeremy Hunt stays in health,

but gets a bigger departmental name:

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Health and Social Care.

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And Greg Clark stays

at the business department,

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despite there being a lot of chatter

about him being kicked out.

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The Prime Minister couldn't shuffle

them, nor the education

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secretary Justine Greening.

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She's gone from Cabinet,

after refusing to move

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from education to the Work

and Pensions department.

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The DWP now goes to Ester McVey,

a one-time TV presenter,

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who has worked as a junior minister

in the department.

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Well, our political editor

Nick Watt is with me.

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To me, it seems like a lot of people

are resisting the kind of plans

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Theresa May may have them, an

unusual number of affected by them?

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Yes, it has happened in the past

that ministers say I don't want to

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move, and a weak Prime Minister

caves, and a strong Prime Minister

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says no. Today was a score draw for

Theresa May because she said yes to

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Jeremy Hunt who wanted to stay at

health, and no to Justine Greening.

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Tory members are being pretty

critical, she started out as Michael

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Howard said this morning strong and

able to do what you wanted and by

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this evening showing she perhaps

can't fully assert her authority.

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But on day two of the reshuffle

tomorrow, the junior in the middle

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ranks, we are told we will see many

more women, many more younger people

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and much more Tory MPs from black

and minority ethnic minorities and

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crucially the number of women

attending Cabinet goes up from eight

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to ten.

OK, David Liddington, a big

Euro fan, a known Remainer and he

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has this key role.

That's right, he

has the big Brexit role, and it is

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chairing a series of Cabinet

committees on Brexit and domestic

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policy whether Prime Minister is not

so focused, so she can focus

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absolutely on the Brexit

negotiations and the domestic policy

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of national security and the

economy. Now, he hasn't got the

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first Secretary of State title, and

ministers who have gone to the

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Cabinet Office with a great fanfare,

if they don't have something to tell

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Whitehall they are a big beast, they

normally run into trouble. But David

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Lidington has two things that tell

Whitehall he's a big beast. David

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Lidington. He is well known and he

is well respected. So I've been

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looking at this very long day that

didn't quite go to plan.

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It has been a torrid six months for

Theresa May. Today was the moment

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for the Prime Minister to finally

assert her authority over her

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government and party after the

disastrous general election setback.

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It all started so well when the

Prime Minister stood on the steps of

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Downing Street to show off the new

group of MPs she hopes will

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rejuvenate the Conservative Party.

But as the day wore on, the

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reshuffle is started, and this

evening the Prime Minister was

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shaken by the surprise resignation

of Justine Greening. Who spurned the

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offer of a move to the Department

for Work and Pensions during a

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two-hour visit to number ten. I

understand Theresa May and Justine

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Greening have had a troubled

relationship. One person who knows

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the Prime Minister's Mind told me

that she never really believed that

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the outgoing Education Secretary had

signed up to many of the Tory school

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reforms. For her part, Justine

Greening is furious with what she

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regarded as negative press reports

about her in recent weeks. Over the

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weekend, she told friends that she

was blaming Boris Johnson for

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leading the charge against her,

after she raised questions about the

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handling of Brexit in cabinet

meetings. Conservative MPs are

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complaining to me that Theresa May

has emerged diminished from this

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reshuffle after the resignation of

Justin Greening, and because other

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ministers successfully resisted some

of the Prime Minister's original

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plans. Jeremy Hunt spent more than

an hour in Downing Street, pleading

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with the Prime Minister to keep his

job as Health Secretary, as he

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resisted a proposed move to the

business department. The Prime

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Minister eventually relented, and

finally granted him his wish, to be

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given the additional responsibility

of social care. Others said Theresa

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May has emerged from today

unscathed.

I have described her as

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Zebedee, because she is someone who

just pops up and has incredible

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resilience, against all the odds. If

you look at all the difficulties

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following the election, everything

that has happened since, she seems

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to still be there, and I think she

made the right decision by having a

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cabinet reshuffle at the beginning

of the year. Stamp her authority to

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set an agenda from day one.

The

Prime Minister learned today that

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shuffling the pack is always a

fraught business. Where a bold

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Theresa May sacked a series of

ministers on her first day in

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Downing Street, 18 months later a

more timid Prime Minister trod

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gingerly around this most delicate

process.

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We were due to be joined now

by the Tory MP Grant Shapps,

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but he's been held up in parliament

at a vote.

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We'll move on, and we'll

try to get to him later,

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if the wheels of democracy start

moving more quickly.

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In case you thought the BBC

gender pay controversy,

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which erupted last summer,

had gone away, it hasn't!

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It re-emerged last night

with the resignation

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of Carrie Gracie as the BBC's China

Editor.

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It was one of those

"only at the BBC" days -

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she resigned from that post

on Sunday, then presented the Today

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programme on Radio 4 this morning.

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But the real effect

of Carrie Gracie's move

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is to highlight just how hard

the BBC is finding it

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to solve the problem that

became evident last year.

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# Money makes the world go round,

the world go round...

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It is ironic that Easy Jet

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published its own paygap last week,

far bigger than the BBC's -

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but it has a clearer excuse.

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Yes, women employees

earn 45% less than men -

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but that is mainly accounted

for by the fact that few women

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are pilots, and many of them

are flight attendants.

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Flight attendants get

paid less than pilots.

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Nothing illegal about that,

as long women pilots and women

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flight attendants get the same

as their male counterparts.

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When I started the China job, I said

I would only do this job if I am

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paid equally. And in July 2017I

discovered the enormous gap that the

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two men who were international

editors were earning 50% more, at

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least, than the two women who were

international editors.

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But Carrie Gracie's scathing

critique of the BBC is that she -

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and many other women -

are getting less for

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the same job as men.

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Can the BBC defend that?

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We did ask to speak to the BBC

today, but nobody was available.

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In a statement, the organisation

said that fairness in pay was vital,

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and that the BBC was performing

better than some

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other organisations.

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The BBC has conducted

a judge-led audit of the pay

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of most of its staff,

and is now doing a separate

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review of on-air staff.

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I'm joined now by lawyer

Jennifer Millins, who is

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representing several of the women

taking cases against the BBC.

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Also here is Sian Kevill -

she's a TV executive who used to be

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the editor of Newsnight,

before going on to be

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the director of BBC World News.

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A very good evening to you both.

Jennifer, look, the review, is there

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an argument here, the BBC is

reviewing on-air talent, they are

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just waiting until that is out of

the way until the do anything. Is

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that a fair defence?

It is certainly

going to feed into a number of the

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complaint and may give some answers

to some of those complaints. It may

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just fuel the fire, though. We have

seen with the equal pay audits that

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came out in October that very

studiously set-aside on-air talent

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is being a little bit difficult to

deal with, that actually those

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reports can themselves lead to

further questions about pay

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disparity. Certainly there was a lot

made this morning by the BBC of the

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fact there is no systematic

discrimination at the BBC, as Sir

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Justice Alliance said, Patrick Alaia

said in his report last October,

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when he was looking at the ABC equal

pay audits, but he also said that

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did not rule out individual cases of

discrimination.

So systematic bias

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was ruled out.

And that excluded

on-air talent completely.

Sian, when

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you were a manager, how difficult

was it to Sepe in a way that was

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deemed to be fair, and comparative?

It is a very tricky position on pay.

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As a manager, when you are giving

somebody a job, the first thing you

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have to do is they come in with a

pay level, and that could have been

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determined by all sorts of factors

way beyond your control. They may

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have been tried to have been poached

at one point, they may have gone

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into war zones, which required a

higher salary, they may have worked

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in an area where it was highly

competitive. So you come in with

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somebody with a salary, and then you

have to decide, you're very unlikely

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to it. If somebody comes in with a

very low salary, you may give them a

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huge increase but it is still not

comparable. And you have a duty to

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try to defend the licence fee and

not just handed out. You want to

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keep as much as you can to put on

screen as opposed to giving it to

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people.

Is a US edit of the same job

as the China editor, because I know

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in a way that is Carrie Gracie's

argument, these are two

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international editors, one is a man,

one is a woman?

I was quite shocked

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when I heard about the disparity.

Listening to the coverage today. And

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I think it is difficult when you

have a job title which is the same.

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When you have a same job title, it

does seem to denote that you have

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roughly the same sort of salary, and

even Carrie wasn't asking for

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absolute equivalents. There could

have been some disparity, the scale

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of the disparity. So are the

differences between the two jobs?

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Well, there are, but it is very

difficult, it is incredibly

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difficult to try and work out

whether covering the manic stuff

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going on in the Trump White House is

the same as dealing with the

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oppression of a Chinese regime.

Jennifer, you would agree that if

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some reason the BBC created a

Kazakhstan editor of not be the same

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job as a US edit or a China editor,

and with that excepted legally when

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you sit down and give legal advice?

There is a whole melting pot of

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factors as to whether there is legal

equivalents for men and women in

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their jobs and in pay. That is why

these claims are very difficult to

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bring but they are also pretty

difficult to defend, as well. There

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is a fact -based analysis that

explicit that really values the

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worth of the individual, as compared

to the e-mail they are comparing

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themselves against.

What is your

advice to the BBC as to how to deal

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with this, because they don't want

to spend money, they have an

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obligation to the licence payer,

difficult to go to the men and say,

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put your salaries down, or maybe

they should do that, and difficult

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to find all the money that the women

are claiming. What is your advice?

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is an issue of the BBC not wanting

to spend money and not wanting to

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spend more licence fee payers' money

but this is an issue about money,

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Carrie was clear she didn't want to

be paid more, she wanted equality

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but it boils down to the issue of

pay and how much people are paid,

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and the legal redress for these

claims is to address that through

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pay, applying a pay equality clause.

That take some time as well.

Backpay

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of up to six years.

That could be

expensive.

It could well be and if I

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were advising the BBC I would say

they need to deal with individual

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complaints properly which they have

struggled to do so far in genuine

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fashion, but also they need to look

at their own data and not just quote

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them gender pay statistics, which is

a different issue and a different

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analysis, but to look at their

statistics. They have all the data,

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the individuals don't have that

data.

I'm afraid we need to leave it

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there, thank you both indeed. We are

going to go back to politics now and

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Grant Shapps can join as. He was

Tory Party Chairman and David

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Cameron and was outed last year as

being the ringleader of a failed

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plot to remove Theresa May as Prime

Minister.

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He's finished voting

and joins me from Westminster.

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Good evening. What was your

impression of the reshuffle, how was

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it handled?

I'm not sure having a

group of colleagues that wanted to

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talk to the Prime Minister qualifies

as a plot. But, look, I thought

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clearly, let's be blunt, it wasn't a

brilliantly executed performance

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with the reshuffle today. They are

very difficult things to get right

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as I recall from time spent when I

was chairman inside Downing Street

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looking out. But actually buried in

the reshuffle I thought there were a

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couple of really good ideas, which I

suspect won't quite get the coverage

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tomorrow. But I hope will matter in

the long run. One of which was

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creating a Ministry of Housing,

Communities and Local Government. I

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used to be housing Minister and

always thought it was ridiculous

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that housing didn't have its own

seat around the table as Secretary

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of State in Cabinet and that was

really good. The other move which I

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thought was quite smart but will

take some working out is taking

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health, Jeremy Hunt is there still,

but bringing in social care, which

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although not everyone will know the

complexities of this, actually comes

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from local councils at the moment,

and that means it's actually under

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what was Communities and Local

Government. The problem is you get

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bed blocking of the problems you

hear about and bringing those

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together makes sense.

I was confused

on both of those because I thought

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housing was in the DCLG, so it's

just a rebranding, and I thought a

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lot of social care was in the

Department of Health, so that was a

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rebranding.

On the first one you are

absolutely right, housing was in

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DCLG, Communities and Local

Government, but I can say this as a

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fact, when sitting around the

Cabinet table people respond to the

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thing they think is most on your

agenda, and by calling it the

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Ministry of Housing, I noticed that

they said they will call it a

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Ministry rather than a department,

by calling it a Ministry, which is

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an historic name for that

department, will give a lot more

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focus to what the government says is

one of its big priorities, building

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more homes. I thought there was some

sense in that. And on social care

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budget, no, the money actually comes

through the local council, the local

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authority side of things, and that

makes it complicated.

Let me move on

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because I want to ask you, do you

still think where we are now, that

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she should step down, or do you

think it's time for her to pause? Do

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you think there is enough young

talent to which the party and the

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country being exposed, so that when

there a leadership election they can

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skip a generation if they want to?

I'm probably more or less unique in

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saying what I actually think about

it, my view hasn't changed, nor do I

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think there is any point in banging

on about it, I want Theresa May does

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exceed because I want the party to

succeed because I don't want to see

0:18:200:18:24

Jeremy Corbyn's Marxist government

come in and destroy lives and jobs

0:18:240:18:27

in this country. My view hasn't

changed but I also recognise there

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is a lot of great talent. The other

good thing today was seeing some of

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the talent, through, albeit perhaps

slightly odd to focus on the party

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changes, which is where a lot of

that talent was seen. Whereas, it

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must a couple of good changes in

part, which I think will take some

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months and probably years to work

through the system but could

0:18:480:18:51

actually help deliver better health

and social care together and better

0:18:510:18:54

housing in this country. There was

good stuff strangely buried in a

0:18:540:18:57

reshuffle which didn't quite go to

plan.

Grant Shapps, thank you very

0:18:570:19:01

much indeed.

0:19:010:19:02

Could it really happen?

0:19:020:19:03

Oprah Winfrey as a US president?

0:19:030:19:06

The talk show queen is of course one

female TV presenter who literally

0:19:060:19:09

no-one thinks is badly remunerated -

and after a well-received speech

0:19:090:19:12

at the Golden Globes last night,

all the talk today is that she might

0:19:120:19:15

run for the White House in 2020.

0:19:150:19:18

A new day is on the horizon!

0:19:180:19:20

CHEERING.

0:19:200:19:29

And when that new day finally dawns,

it will be because of a lot

0:19:290:19:33

of magnificent women,

many of whom are right

0:19:330:19:35

here in this room tonight!

0:19:350:19:41

CHEERING.

0:19:410:19:43

Thank you!

0:19:430:19:45

Well, for liberals,

disheartened by Trump,

0:19:450:19:48

Oprah is a sense of hope

of a new popular champion

0:19:480:19:51

for their cause emerging.

0:19:510:19:54

This talk of President Winfrey

actually goes back some months,

0:19:540:19:56

but the bookies' odds have

shortened massively today.

0:19:560:19:58

Even though she has no

political experience,

0:19:580:20:01

and has never run for,

or held, office, CNN says some

0:20:010:20:04

of her friends say she's

now considering a run.

0:20:040:20:06

If she did, and assuming

Donald Trump fancied a second term,

0:20:060:20:09

the 2020 US election would be quite

a battle - apart from both

0:20:090:20:13

being billionaire TV stars,

in every other respect the two

0:20:130:20:18

are almost comical opposites.

0:20:180:20:19

Let's discuss this.

0:20:190:20:23

Joining me from Atlanta

is Anoa Changa - she's an activist

0:20:230:20:26

and journalist who backed

Bernie Sanders in the last

0:20:260:20:28

Democrat primary.

0:20:280:20:30

Good evening to you. First of all,

will she ran?

Well, I think that's

0:20:300:20:40

up to Oprah, Oprah is definitely a

woman who has charted her own path

0:20:400:20:43

over the last several decades in her

career from good morning Chicago, to

0:20:430:20:48

her own show, to movies and this

whole empire she has built, so

0:20:480:20:53

whether or not she runs, we will all

wait to see what Oprah ultimately

0:20:530:20:58

does. Whether or not she should run,

I guess that will be up to her and

0:20:580:21:01

her confidence in her team whether

or not that is something she should

0:21:010:21:06

do..

Delegate it to her, would you

like her to run? Would you be

0:21:060:21:11

excited?

Me personally?

Yes.

I

wouldn't be super excited, I

0:21:110:21:17

wouldn't be upset but I really think

American voters need to get away

0:21:170:21:21

from our obsession with celebrity.

The focus on celebrity in the 2016

0:21:210:21:25

presidential general election here

really overshadowed the need to

0:21:250:21:30

focus on actual everyday Americans

and the issues that are affecting

0:21:300:21:34

people and doing real groundwork.

One of the flaws I saw with Hillary

0:21:340:21:38

Clinton, Secretary Clinton's

campaign, was relying heavily on

0:21:380:21:44

celebrity friends and supporters,

instead of actually getting out

0:21:440:21:45

there with the people. When you look

at battle ground states like Hohaia,

0:21:450:21:54

Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin

where she never campaigned people

0:21:540:21:56

were clamouring for the leadership

to talk to them, not necessarily the

0:21:560:22:01

charisma of the leadership at the

top -- Ohio. If Oprah were to run

0:22:010:22:06

and she was the person, hopefully

she would have policies and

0:22:060:22:09

initiatives on the table that would

really speak to the American public,

0:22:090:22:12

particularly those across the board

who are struggling, who are thinking

0:22:120:22:17

about jobs, education, climate

change, internationally, I'm sure,

0:22:170:22:21

you would all like to see a leader

that is taking so many things,

0:22:210:22:25

global security, into consideration.

Am I going to be super excited? No.

0:22:250:22:32

You say you have the policies would

be to the American people, but she

0:22:320:22:35

is someone who has a powerful

ability to speak to the American

0:22:350:22:38

people. She would surely engage a

lot of voters, wouldn't she? I

0:22:380:22:42

wonder whether she would win because

essentially there would be a lot of

0:22:420:22:46

voters who may be sometimes don't

vote who would come out and vote for

0:22:460:22:49

her.

I don't know that a lot of

voters who didn't usually vote would

0:22:490:22:56

come out and vote for her. Again, we

saw so many celebrities come out on

0:22:560:23:00

the Trail, we had Katy Perry, major

firebrands, Jay-Z and Beyonce

0:23:000:23:05

throwing concerts in Cleveland in

2016 and still didn't see the voter

0:23:050:23:09

turnout. For Oprah or whoever

amongst the celebrity double crowd

0:23:090:23:14

who would step up to the challenge

of running for President, we would

0:23:140:23:17

really need to see them digging in

on the issues. Oprah gave a rousing

0:23:170:23:27

speech yesterday but we need more

than speeches, we have heard

0:23:270:23:31

wonderful eloquent people talk but

we need policies right now. We have

0:23:310:23:35

millions uninsured in America. I

just spent 14 hours in an ER

0:23:350:23:39

yesterday with my younger sister who

does not have health insurance.

0:23:390:23:43

Aintree is great but I need to know

what's going to be done to address

0:23:430:23:46

young students like my sister who

have conditions that need treatment

0:23:460:23:50

and they have to sit in an emergency

room for care.

Anoa Changa, your

0:23:500:23:55

scepticism has come across well.

Thank you so much indeed. Thanks.

0:23:550:24:00

Back in October,

an investigative journalist

0:24:000:24:01

was assassinated in Malta.

0:24:010:24:04

The death of Daphne Caruana Galizia

put the island in the headlines

0:24:040:24:07

for all the wrong reasons,

bringing international attention

0:24:070:24:09

to accusations of corruption

and organised crime.

0:24:090:24:14

Caruana Galizia had many enemies,

including the Maltese Prime

0:24:140:24:17

Minister, he condemned

the killing as barbaric,

0:24:170:24:19

and called on foreign

0:24:190:24:24

security services to help

with the investigation into it -

0:24:240:24:26

we'll hear from him shortly.

0:24:260:24:28

John Sweeney reported on the story

for us in the immediate aftermath,

0:24:280:24:30

and has been back to Malta.

0:24:300:24:34

Fortress Malta has for centuries

been virtually impregnable.

0:24:340:24:37

Foreign invaders repelled

by its defences,

0:24:370:24:38

an island standing alone

in the Mediterranean.

0:24:380:24:48

But now Malta is in danger

of falling to dirty money.

0:24:480:24:54

And the one journalist who dared

the most to tell their story

0:24:540:24:57

has been assassinated.

0:24:570:24:58

Daphne Caruana Galizia

spent her life asking questions of

0:24:580:25:00

those in power.

0:25:000:25:01

Questions about the sale

of passports, questions about

0:25:010:25:07

government corruption, questions

about a breakdown in the rule

0:25:070:25:09

of law.

0:25:090:25:11

Her assassination may have

silenced her, but the questions she

0:25:110:25:13

was asking, they haven't gone away.

0:25:130:25:15

What on earth is going on on Malta?

0:25:150:25:19

Daphne Caruana Galizia was Malta's

most fearless

0:25:190:25:21

investigative journalist.

0:25:210:25:24

She was blown up in October driving

away from her house.

0:25:240:25:27

The fifth person to die in a car

bomb in seven years.

0:25:270:25:32

We're on our way to

the scene of the crime.

0:25:330:25:36

Three men have been charged.

0:25:360:25:38

They deny the murder.

0:25:380:25:42

Newspapers in Italy and Malta have

reported investigators

0:25:420:25:47

triangulated their whereabouts

by tracking mobile phone use at the

0:25:470:25:50

moment the bomb went off.

0:25:500:25:54

The police believe there

was a spotter on land on a hill

0:25:540:25:58

overlooking the road down

which Daphne Caruana Galizia

0:25:580:26:00

was driving.

0:26:000:26:02

Once the spotter had

identified Daphne he then

0:26:020:26:04

phoned his accomplice.

0:26:040:26:06

He's the trigger man

and he's on a boat offshore.

0:26:060:26:10

The triggerman presses a button

and a remote-control device

0:26:100:26:13

explodes underneath Daphne's car.

0:26:130:26:16

And the journalist is dead.

0:26:160:26:18

The waters that

Daphne was fishing in

0:26:210:26:23

were much darker than

even she imagined.

0:26:230:26:27

The three accused worked

in a warehouse and had been

0:26:270:26:29

suspected of underworld activity.

0:26:290:26:32

They'd never crossed Daphne's radar.

0:26:320:26:36

Many suspect they were hired hands.

0:26:360:26:43

Daphne has never ever mentioned

these three persons in none of her

0:26:430:26:45

20,000 articles plus.

0:26:450:26:48

So, it's obvious, and

it's an open secret,

0:26:480:26:56

that these are not the persons who

commissioned the murder and we will

0:26:560:26:59

not rest until we know who

commissioned the murder and what was

0:26:590:27:02

the motive.

0:27:020:27:03

Jason Azzopardi believes

the question is not who

0:27:030:27:05

carried out the killing

but who ordered the hit.

0:27:050:27:10

Over the years Daphne

worked on many stories and

0:27:100:27:12

made a lot of enemies

on the island and beyond.

0:27:120:27:19

At the time of her death Daphne

was working on four major

0:27:190:27:22

investigations.

0:27:220:27:23

First, the sale of Maltese

passports, a trade worth 310

0:27:230:27:26

million euro to people

from outside the European Union.

0:27:260:27:31

Malta is the only state

in the EU that sells

0:27:310:27:33

passports so aggressively

in this fashion.

0:27:330:27:39

Some worry that many buying those

passports are dodgy and so is

0:27:390:27:43

their money, that Malta

is being used as a back door by rich

0:27:430:27:46

Russian gangsters and others

to enter the EU.

0:27:460:27:48

The passport scheme.

0:27:480:27:54

The source of corruption.

0:27:540:27:55

Who's buying these passports?

0:27:550:27:57

The majority, it seems to be

Russians and middle easterns, but

0:27:570:28:00

principally Russians.

0:28:000:28:05

And are they honest

law-abiding hard-working

0:28:050:28:06

Russian citizens?

0:28:060:28:07

What I can say is that the due

diligence leaves much

0:28:070:28:10

to be desired, in the sense that the

European Commission demanded a

0:28:100:28:13

12-month residency

requirement, whereas

0:28:130:28:14

these people are barely

spending one-hour in Malta.

0:28:140:28:17

The passport trade brings

so many millions of

0:28:170:28:19

euros into government coffers that

the Prime Minister travels the world

0:28:190:28:22

flogging Maltese citizenship.

0:28:220:28:26

But Daphne's murder

has opened a can of

0:28:260:28:31

worms, and many of those worms

are at the heart of government.

0:28:310:28:36

Manuel Delia is a blogger

and investigative

0:28:360:28:38

journalist.

0:28:380:28:39

He hopes to carry on Daphne's work.

0:28:390:28:41

He's installed extra

security in his home.

0:28:410:28:46

The Prime Minister is

the front man for the

0:28:460:28:48

promotion and let's be clear,

they are selling European passports.

0:28:480:28:52

It's true it has an

Maltese coat of arms

0:28:520:28:54

on the front.

0:28:540:28:55

But this gives them freedom

of movement, of themselves

0:28:550:28:57

and of their capital

throughout Europe.

0:28:570:29:04

It's Republic Day on Malta.

0:29:040:29:06

Ties with Britain, the old colonial

power, still linger.

0:29:060:29:15

Prime Minister and passport

seller in Chief Joseph

0:29:150:29:16

Muscat reviews the troops.

0:29:160:29:21

Daphne's second target

was a group of senior

0:29:220:29:24

government figures, including

the Prime Minister's wife Michelle

0:29:240:29:28

Muscat, alleged to be making

use of secretive shell

0:29:280:29:30

companies in Panama.

0:29:300:29:36

The Panama Papers scandal revealed

that the Prime Minister's Chief of

0:29:360:29:39

Staff, Keith Schembri, and senior

minister Konrad Mizzi own shell

0:29:390:29:43

companies in Panama.

0:29:430:29:48

All concerned deny any wrongdoing.

0:29:480:29:52

One senior investigator

in the island's

0:29:520:29:53

anti-money-laundering unit was

looking into the scandal when he was

0:29:530:29:55

called in to his boss's office.

0:29:550:30:00

This summer you were

investigating two of

0:30:000:30:05

the Prime Minister's closest

associates and a company widely

0:30:050:30:07

believed to have been

owned by his wife.

0:30:070:30:09

What happened to you then?

0:30:090:30:10

They fired me and they

fired my colleague.

0:30:100:30:12

Was that a proper thing

for the government of Malta to do?

0:30:120:30:15

It is highly unethical

and we believe there was political

0:30:150:30:17

interference.

0:30:170:30:25

Were you got at by the

Prime Minister's office?

0:30:250:30:27

I don't know by whom

but for sure the

0:30:270:30:29

mastermind of this all wants

to keep things secret.

0:30:290:30:38

The suspicion is that the secretive

shell companies that

0:30:380:30:40

emerged in the Panama Papers

could be used to receive bribes.

0:30:400:30:43

Jonathan Ferris believes

there is something

0:30:430:30:44

rotten in the state of Malta.

0:30:440:30:46

He's got some police

protection but he's

0:30:460:30:48

all too aware of what could happen.

0:30:480:30:58

Following 16th October,

what happened to Daphne Caruana

0:31:000:31:02

Galizia, I sat down,

I divided my notes and

0:31:020:31:04

my workings and my information

into six different envelopes with

0:31:040:31:07

specific notes.

0:31:070:31:09

They are distributed to six

members of family, friends

0:31:090:31:16

and close friends, and should

something happen to me abruptly,

0:31:160:31:21

let's say I'm killed,

all that information

0:31:210:31:23

will go public at once.

0:31:230:31:30

Her third major investigation

was into Pilatus Bank, run by

0:31:300:31:33

an Iranian.

0:31:330:31:34

Clients of the bank are believed

to include children of Ilham Aliyev

0:31:340:31:37

President of the fabulously corrupt

regime of Azerbaijan.

0:31:370:31:44

In her blog, Daphne argued

that Malta was fast

0:31:440:31:47

becoming world money-laundering

central and she leaked a report by

0:31:470:31:49

Malta's anti-money-laundering

agency into the bank.

0:31:490:31:55

The report accused the bank

of turning a blind eye to

0:31:550:31:57

proper compliance and highlighted

systemic issues of grave concern.

0:31:570:32:05

After Daphne leaked that report,

the findings of a second report into

0:32:050:32:08

Pilatus Bank by the

anti-money-laundering

0:32:080:32:09

agency emerged.

0:32:090:32:14

That said that its shortcomings

no longer subsist.

0:32:140:32:16

The bank, which is housed in this

building in the letter, such the

0:32:160:32:19

second report and other

evidence to say the

0:32:190:32:21

allegations against it

are

0:32:210:32:22

false and baseless, and it

complies with all its

0:32:220:32:24

anti-money-laundering obligations.

0:32:240:32:30

Daphne also alleged that

a whistle-blower told her that a

0:32:300:32:33

company owned by the Azerbaijan

President's daughter paid $1 million

0:32:330:32:35

to a Panama company owned by

the Prime Minister's wife, Michelle

0:32:350:32:38

Muscat.

0:32:380:32:46

All concerned deny any wrongdoing.

0:32:460:32:51

But the fear is that Malta

is making it too easy for

0:32:510:32:54

dirty money to get into the EU.

0:32:540:33:01

If you have nothing

to hide, you don't

0:33:010:33:02

go set up secret accounts in Panama.

0:33:020:33:04

You go to your local Barclays.

0:33:040:33:08

On Malta the rule

of law does not seem

0:33:080:33:10

to bite on the Prime

Minister and his clique.

0:33:100:33:17

A group of Euro MPs who visited

Malta after Daphne's murder

0:33:170:33:20

found there was a perception

of impunity on the island.

0:33:200:33:22

Roberta Metsola is a Maltese MEP.

0:33:220:33:25

What we mean by rule

of law is that the

0:33:250:33:29

institutions work,

that the government

0:33:290:33:31

is at the service of

the

0:33:310:33:34

judiciary and not

the other way round.

0:33:340:33:36

That when a crime is committed

you have to have faith in

0:33:360:33:39

law enforcement so that that crime

is investigated and solved.

0:33:390:33:41

That if you break any

rule of our criminal

0:33:410:33:43

or civil code then you are

prosecuted and you are made to pay

0:33:430:33:46

for what you've done.

0:33:460:33:52

Roberta Metsola says

Daphne was aware she

0:33:520:33:54

was getting into treacherous waters.

0:33:540:33:57

She has realised that

what she was doing was

0:33:570:33:59

dangerous and I think

that

0:33:590:34:01

came to a fateful and unfortunately,

and she was right.

0:34:010:34:03

This country will forever be

grateful for her work and

0:34:030:34:05

her sense of ignoring her personal

security in order to get the truth.

0:34:050:34:13

Daphne's fourth investigation raised

questions about the integrity of the

0:34:130:34:15

economics minister Chris Cardona.

0:34:150:34:19

She alleged that Mr Cardona

went to a brothel

0:34:190:34:22

whilst at a conference in Germany.

0:34:220:34:24

He sued, saying he was

in his hotel room.

0:34:240:34:28

Daphne got a court order

to obtain his mobile phone

0:34:280:34:30

records to pinpoint his whereabouts.

0:34:300:34:34

They've yet to be released,

but the case continues.

0:34:340:34:37

If Cardona loses, he is finished

as a politician and a lawyer.

0:34:370:34:43

Mr Cardona denied any wrongdoing,

and declined our request

0:34:430:34:45

for an interview, citing ongoing

legal proceedings, including his

0:34:450:34:47

libel action against

Daphne Caruana Galizia's estate.

0:34:470:34:55

There's a gang that has

taken over the government

0:34:550:34:58

of this country and that gang is

concerned with its self-preservation

0:34:580:35:00

and has eroded the power and

the authority of institutions that

0:35:000:35:03

should be independent of government.

0:35:030:35:13

Daphne Caruana Galizia shone a light

on Malta's dark underworld.

0:35:270:35:37

Her murder, was it

proof that she was onto

0:35:400:35:42

something, proof that someone

powerful wanted that light

0:35:420:35:44

switched off?

0:35:440:35:45

Was it proof of Malta's shame?

0:35:450:35:48

John Sweeney there.

0:35:480:35:50

Government minister Konrad Mizzi

told the BBC that the Panamanian

0:35:500:35:52

company he owned had never traded

or had a bank account.

0:35:520:35:57

He said he had properly

declared his ownership

0:35:570:35:59

of the company in a ministerial

declaration of interests in 2015.

0:35:590:36:04

The Prime Minister's chief

of staff Keith Schembri said

0:36:040:36:06

that the Panamanian company owned

by him was never used.

0:36:060:36:11

But, he said, "with hindsight,

I realise that it was probably not

0:36:110:36:14

the right call, purely based

on the fact that perceptions

0:36:140:36:16

matter as well".

0:36:160:36:17

Malta's anti-money laundering

agency, the FIAU said that

0:36:170:36:20

Jonathan Ferris's dismissal

was based on an objective assessment

0:36:200:36:23

of his performance and did not

involve any political interference.

0:36:230:36:33

Well, Malta's Prime Minister Joseph

Muscat has given Newsnight

0:36:330:36:35

an interview about all of this.

0:36:350:36:36

John met up with him in Valetta.

0:36:360:36:37

What's been the effect

of her assassination

0:36:380:36:39

on your own standing, sir?

0:36:390:36:41

Well, bad, definitely,

because that's not something that

0:36:410:36:43

any Prime Minister would want.

0:36:430:36:47

She was a very vociferous

critic of many people.

0:36:470:36:52

I might have been

the top of that list.

0:36:520:36:55

And this doesn't look good on me.

0:36:550:36:58

I'm very realistic on this.

0:36:580:37:02

Besides her family,

I think if there is one

0:37:020:37:04

person that has suffered

from

0:37:040:37:06

this assassination it's us, just

because this long shadow has been

0:37:060:37:08

cast on us.

0:37:080:37:18

One week after Daphne's

assassination where were

0:37:210:37:23

you and what were you doing?

0:37:230:37:24

One week?

0:37:240:37:25

One week.

0:37:250:37:26

The week after.

0:37:260:37:27

I wouldn't know, honestly.

0:37:270:37:28

You were in Dubai,

signing passports.

0:37:280:37:30

Oh, right.

0:37:300:37:31

For 650,000 euros.

0:37:310:37:32

I wasn't...

0:37:320:37:33

We don't sell.

0:37:330:37:35

We have, as other European

jurisdictions, other

0:37:350:37:42

European countries, systems

by which, and programmes,

0:37:420:37:44

and ours is the most

transparent and open programme,

0:37:440:37:50

people can invest in our country,

can have residence

0:37:500:37:52

and even citizenship.

0:37:520:37:53

Who's buying these passports?

0:37:530:37:54

Well, various people,

wealthy people.

0:37:540:37:56

Wealth doesn't buy you

the right to citizenship.

0:37:560:38:00

I had some...

0:38:000:38:01

It helps if you've got

650,000 euros, though.

0:38:010:38:04

It helps but it doesn't

mean that you would get

0:38:040:38:06

access to our programme.

0:38:060:38:08

The law, though, says

that the minister responsible,

0:38:080:38:10

and I believe that's you,

the Prime Minister,

0:38:100:38:12

can override a problem.

0:38:120:38:16

For example, if somebody's got

a criminal record or is under

0:38:160:38:18

criminal investigation...

0:38:180:38:20

No, the system has

never been overridden.

0:38:200:38:24

Tell me about your family's

relationship with the first

0:38:240:38:26

family of Azerbaijan.

0:38:260:38:29

Well, I met President Aliyev,

I believe, twice in Baku, a number

0:38:290:38:33

of times when we were at the EU

Eastern Partnership summits.

0:38:330:38:43

Mrs Aliyev came here once,

she met with my wife.

0:38:440:38:50

That's it.

0:38:500:38:51

That's the relationship.

0:38:510:38:54

Nothing more?

0:38:540:38:55

Nothing more.

0:38:550:38:57

Daphne said there was a lot more.

0:38:570:39:01

$1 million.

0:39:010:39:04

Well, you know, I don't think

you can hide $1 million.

0:39:040:39:08

I don't think you can hide $100.

0:39:080:39:09

Definitely not in a bank.

0:39:090:39:10

Definitely not anywhere

else, you know?

0:39:100:39:13

Does Malta have a problem

with money-laundering?

0:39:130:39:17

I don't feel comfortable in saying

no, we don't have any problems,

0:39:170:39:20

or yes, we have problems.

0:39:200:39:25

I'd say we have as many problems

as any other jurisdiction,

0:39:250:39:32

be it the City of London,

be it Luxembourg, the Netherlands,

0:39:320:39:35

when it comes to making sure

that we comply with the rules.

0:39:350:39:38

And anyway I don't want to be seen,

I know I'm in a quite uncomfortable

0:39:380:39:41

situation having to criticise

someone who has been killed

0:39:410:39:44

brutally, but I hope we are not

in a situation where in any

0:39:440:39:48

democracy, situations are such

where if someone writes

0:39:480:39:50

something on social media,

that is stated as fact.

0:39:500:39:56

Although you are doing

exactly that, aren't you?

0:39:560:39:58

She was killed brutally and you're

saying that at least some

0:39:580:40:01

of the time she was writing gossip.

0:40:010:40:03

Yes.

0:40:030:40:04

She had evidence.

0:40:040:40:05

You don't agree with it.

0:40:050:40:06

You don't think it's right.

0:40:060:40:07

But she did have evidence.

0:40:070:40:08

She's got a whistle-blower...

0:40:080:40:10

No, I totally disagree because I

read exactly what she said.

0:40:100:40:14

So, first of all there isn't

a shred, not only of proof

0:40:140:40:17

but of truth in what she said,

all of this.

0:40:170:40:24

She based herself on a person

calling herself a whistle-blower

0:40:240:40:26

and the account of this

whistle-blower was dubious,

0:40:260:40:28

to say the least.

0:40:280:40:32

What I am saying is that not

only if there is evidence,

0:40:320:40:36

if there is even the whiff of any

evidence I would resign on the spot.

0:40:360:40:41

And yes, I'm sorry, the issue

with Mrs Caruana Galizia

0:40:410:40:44

is that she has said things that

were facts, she wrote stories that

0:40:440:40:49

were cutting edge but then these

were coupled with things

0:40:490:40:52

that were false.

0:40:520:40:56

Now, I don't know that

whether she knew what she was saying

0:40:560:40:59

against me or about me was false,

whether she was part of this

0:40:590:41:02

invention, or whether she was fed

the story by this whistle-blower,

0:41:020:41:07

or someone else, and maybe it looked

too true, too good not to be true,

0:41:070:41:13

let's put it that way,

because it fitted the narrative that

0:41:130:41:16

some people wanted to put in.

0:41:160:41:19

The charge in a nutshell is that

you're the artful dodger of Europe.

0:41:190:41:24

Well, if that is the charge I'm

definitely not guilty of that.

0:41:240:41:30

I think it's, you know,

preposterous.

0:41:300:41:36

I do believe that our success story

as a country might not go

0:41:360:41:39

down well with others.

0:41:390:41:43

But it is a success story that

will continue for a long time.

0:41:430:41:51

After Daphne Caruana

Galizia's assassination,

0:41:510:41:52

her son Matthew wrote,

0:41:520:41:59

if institutions were already

working, there would

0:41:590:42:01

be no assassinations

0:42:010:42:01

to investigate and my brothers

and I, we'd still have a mother.

0:42:010:42:04

What do you say to that?

0:42:040:42:06

Well, I have made it very clear that

I would never take issue with...

0:42:060:42:10

People who have lost their mother

in such a brutal assassination.

0:42:100:42:20

I've said myself that if my mother

was killed in such instances

0:42:200:42:23

I would say much worse

things than that.

0:42:230:42:25

Prime Minister, thank you.

0:42:250:42:26

Thank you very much.

0:42:260:42:27

Thank you.

0:42:270:42:28

Thank you.

0:42:280:42:32

John Sweetie talking to the premise

to Malta. It will be me back here

0:42:320:42:39

tomorrow, in the meantime, good

night.

0:42:390:42:46

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