In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.
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Dinner in the Eiffel
Tower for Trump.
A cavalry horse for the Chinese.
Now, he's bringing us
an enormous tapestry.
Should we beware French
presidents bearing gifts?
Macron's coming to town -
but what does he want back?
We ask the Foreign Office, where
next for Anglo-French relationship?
He will be very tough in defending
We ask the Foreign Office, where
next for Anglo-French relationship?
Also tonight, in the wake
of the Carillion collapse,
we ask Labour's shadow business
secretary whether the government
should run outsourced
I think, well, what we need
to do is examine the most
cost-effective way for the UK
taxpayer, and if...
But you'd consider it?
If it's cheaper, yes.
If it's cheaper, and it's
more secure to deliver
those services in-house,
then that is what should happen.
And we hear from two of the many
people who say the predatory Team
USA gymnastics doctor
Larry Nassar assaulted them.
The loan of the Bayeaux tapestry -
a triumphal celebration of England's
defeat at the hands of a European
army - may strike some
as rich in symbolism.
But the gesture by Emmanuel
Macron has been hailed
as diplomatic brilliance.
arrives here tomorrow.
He will discuss defence
and security with the PM.
But behind the military
welcome at Sandhurst,
and plans to make Britain pay more
for towards the port of Calais,
there may also be a slight sense
of disquiet at the ease
with which Macron wields his power.
"We need to develop a kind
of political heroism.
We need to be amenable again
to creating grand narratives,"
he recently told a German newspaper.
Has he become the de
facto leader of Europe?
And should Britain be worried
he holds all the negotiating cards
when discussions inevitably
turn to Brexit?
Here's our political
editor, Nick Watt,
on the latest Norman conquest.
Ancient military figures appear
to be morphing into diplomats.
A decade ago, China's Terracotta
Army arrived in London
to herald a new era in Sino-British
relations, and now the Bayeux
Tapestry is due to
land on our shores.
It may be a bloody and gruesome
depiction of an English defeat,
but the ever canny Emmanuel Macron
calculates that our affection
for the medieval masterpiece
will allow it to serve as a powerful
signal of warm
relations after Brexit.
I remember going to see
the Bayeux Tapestry.
I think I was about six,
with my mother, and being completely
entranced by the fact that women had
sat and stitched this extraordinary
story which goes all the way
round a room, so that
not always friendly,
that we've had with the French,
but a long-standing,
and absolutely firm relationship
with the French is one that he's
making a bond which has
never been done before,
by offering this extraordinary piece
of work and this story that
shares our heritage.
I think it's one of those
which does go through ups
and downs, admittedly.
Over the past 1,000 years
since the Bayeux Tapestry,
but which is still, 1,000 years
later, incredibly strong,
and which is a vector and a product
for cooperation on issues
of tremendous importance,
which impact both our countries.
If you want to find a symbol
of the entente cordiale,
you can perhaps do no better
than visit this statue
of Charles de Gaulle,
the leader of the free French,
who was given refuge in London
during the Second World War.
But de Gaulle personally embodies
the perennially scratchy nature
of Anglo-French relations.
In 1943, Winston Churchill described
him as "vain and malignant",
and two decades later,
he vetoed Britain's
application to join the EEC.
The legacy of de Gaulle,
always to put French interests
first, even at the cost of ruffling
feathers, is upheld by today's
occupant of the Elysee Palace.
Behind tomorrow's friendly
and cost-free gesture lie some raw
French calculations about how
they can use Brexit
to their advantage.
When it comes to French interests,
in the Brexit decisions,
he will be hard-headed, and he will
push for a tough outcome.
I don't think he wants
to have a collapse and a disaster.
I think he wants an agreement,
but yeah, he will be very tough,
single-minded in defending
Yeah, they will say,
you can't have your cake and eat it.
If you're in the single market
or aligning yourself
with the single market, fine.
If you're not, you can't cherry pick
that you want to be in this bit
and out of that bit.
And yes, of course, where there's
an opportunity of draining jobs
away from the UK into France,
they will be taking it.
And that gap left by Britain,
and the lack of leadership
in Berlin, has provided
President Macron with a space
to shape his vision for the future
of Europe, which he's been
developing for years.
There was originally a realisation
that Europe in the last ten to 15
years hasn't progressed fast enough
on a certain number of issues,
and that we needed a new force
for proposals, and that was what his
speech at La Sorbonne,
which outlined a whole
host of potential areas
where we could integrate more,
where we could have more cooperation
between European member states,
and more integration
at European level.
I think, at the moment,
on the European scene,
President Macron is the dominant
personality, and he is out there,
as we've seen, taking initiatives,
trying to help in international
crises, cutting a dash on the world
stage, and he is biding his time,
waiting for there to be
a German Chancellor
that he can got to work
with on building Europe.
Emmanuel Macron will signal tomorrow
that France will always
have a special place for Britain
in its affections.
But, as the UK walks away
from the EU, France is already
looking to new horizons.
So, how do we deal with Macron?
Joining me now is Foreign Office
minister Harriet Baldwin.
Very nice of you to come in. The
tapestry is lovely but you heard
that from Peter Ricketts - he is
hard-headed and he wants to drain
jobs away from London, does that
Well, it is a wonderful
gesture in terms of this tapestry
which of course was stitched in
Canterbury. So, it is good to be
wonderful having it back in the UK
and I would like to thank the
president for that. But tomorrow's
summit will be very much about our
mutual interests, our shared project
in terms of not only prosperity
within our respective economies but
of course, there will be a lot in
the summit tomorrow about...
Interests in terms
Interests in terms of security and
in terms of the atrocities that we
have both suffered...
But he is the
man who is looking like the de facto
leader in Europe right now
man who is looking like the de facto
leader in Europe right now, he's
going to be hard-headed about this.
Lets look at these things. He is due
Britain to take in more refugee
migrants - are we going to do that?
Theresa May is also a really strong
leader in Europe, and she has got a
very, very clear outline in terms of
what she wants to achieve. Do you
relationship... In terms of the
migrant numbers, the refugee
numbers, do you think she's going to
say yes, we will take in more?
think she will point to the very
strong track record that we have in
terms of taking in migrants.
wants more, right?
I do not want to
pre-empt any of the discussions
which may take place tomorrow. The
Home Secretary will be meeting with
her counterpart tomorrow.
him asking for more money, we pay
for security at the border but we do
not pay any more financial
contribution - will we now be doing
that at Calais, is it a fair thing
for the French to ask?
Again I don't
want to speculate in terms of some
of the announcements which may come
out tomorrow, because clearly we
work closely with the French in
terms of the border and we have had
a long-standing co-operation with
them on those issues, particularly
in Calais. It is all about those
shared mutual interests that we have
with France, in terms of not only
our mutual border but also, of
course, the southern area that we
share strong interests in that area
and there will be other
announcements tomorrow pointing to
If you accept the premise that
France will be the likely
beneficiary of any jobs lost in the
City of London, with Brexit, then is
it your inclination to say we have
to work on far closer alignment to
the single market to stop those jobs
training away, do you see how
important that could be to stop
France taking the premier position?
I do not accept the Palace of your
As an ambassador do you
think he is wrong when he thinks
Macron is trying to drain the jobs
I think he makes a good
point about what Macron has already
publicly said already. I don't think
there is anything new in terms of
some of those things but of course
we have such strong shared
interests, we have a very strong
interest in a successful financial
sector, not only in France but of
course the UK is the global hub for
so much of the world's finance.
That's going to continue, and of
course, it is in Europe's interests
for us to have a strong financial
and global hub here.
Do you think we
should just say we are prepared to
accept job losses, this is going to
be a brand-new start for the country
with Brexit, and if it takes a few
job losses, we will find others, we
won't be so dependent on the
Well, I am going
to talk about how important that
sector is, not only to the UK but
also to the world, and to Europe.
And so there's going to be a
negotiation to be had about how
important that is to our respective
economies, and the summit tomorrow
will be very much focused on the
mutual interests that we have. We
have a very large population of
French citizens here in the UK and a
lot of UK citizens in France, and
there will be a series of
announcements focused on our shared
The perception is that
Macron seems to handle his diplomacy
with such ease. He pulled off the
Trump visit with elegance whilst
disagreeing with virtually
everything he stands for. In
contrast we leap in the, we hold
hands, we stumble around a bit,
whether there is going to be a state
visit or no visit at all, we look
like we're tearing our hair out on
Think we're being
incredibly negative and pessimistic
and BBC like there, Emily! The first
person to get over to meet Mr Trump
after he was elected was the British
Prime Minister Annable you don't
think we're in a mess with the state
visit? I think she's had some
fantastic state visits.
As you know we have
invited him to return, and those are
I don't want to be BBC
like, I'm just trying to work out
whether we are bargaining President
Trump now, whether that state visit
that we heard about is still
extended by a deal in the government
would say this is a wonderful thing
to be doing now whether there has
been a of mind, that sense of
bumbling amount because we don't
really know any more?
0 in the Prime
Minister made it very clear today at
PMQs that that invitation has been
offered, and tomorrow's summit is
the one with president Macron, and
we will be really focusing on so
much that we do together with the
French, and you've already
highlighted the importance of the
extensive trading that we do in
terms of financial services between
the two countries, but just in terms
of exports alone, we are talking
about a £70 billion relationship.
This is the third biggest trading
relationship that we have. And so
it's an incredibly important
relationship, one which both
premiers will want to show that we
are taking forward and tomorrow's
summit will have some very
substantive announcements and the
communique will show the strength of
that bilateral relationship.
you very much for coming in.
Jeremy Corbyn accused the government
of being deeply negligent over
the collapse of Carillion
today in the Commons.
Unfortunately for Labour,
the question he appeared to be
asking never quite came,
allowing the PM a fairly
easy ride in what should
have been a tough week.
Mr Speaker - it looks
like the government was handing
Carillion public contracts either
to keep the company afloat,
which clearly hasn't worked,
or it was just deeply negligent
of the crisis that was
coming down the line.
Which is it?
Mr Speaker, I'm very happy to answer
questions when the right
asks one - he didn't.
Helen Thomas, our business
editor, is with me.
Moving away from the cut
and thrust of PMQs, Helen,
what else did we learn
about Carillion today?
There was some mixed news today from
the insolvency service. On the good
side, they said that 90% of
Carillion's private sector services
customers want to carry on receiving
those services, they are prepared to
fund them, and that means people
stay in jobs. On the bad side, the
construction business public and
private is basically closed. They
have said work is paused and there
is no sense of how long that paws
will last. People I have spoken to
in the construction industry are
very worried about that. One of news
- they have said any severance
payments going to directors of
Carillion will have stopped as of
Monday. There was this concerned
that directors might still be
receiving big pay-outs. But there
has been another question on pay,
which is about the ability to claw
back past bonuses paid. Now, a good
chunk of those past bonuses would
have been paired in shares which are
now worth precisely nothing. But
what I have heard today is that
nobody is too confident that they
will be able to claw back any of
those past bonus payments.
is your sense of where things go
We understand that the National
Audit Office is releasing a report
on PFI. These are big,
projects built by private companies,
and those private companies take an
annual payment over 25 or 30 year
contracts, and are also providing
cleaning and maintenance contracts
and so one. Labour has said they
will take all of those PFI contracts
back in-house. You could assume that
report would get some attention. A
few figures that may demonstrate the
scale of this. 700 of these projects
are operating. They have a capital
value of £60 billion, roughly what
they were built for. The total
annual charges on those projects is
about £10 billion, and if there were
no new deals from today, the future
payments would stretch until the 20
40s and total around £200 billion.
But what would Labour do?
Earlier, I spoke to the shadow
and I began by asking her to now
clarify Labour's position
on public-private partnerships.
Of course, you can't rule out
the use of the private sector.
They have their strengths,
and they have certain
characteristics that we would need
to utilise, but the question
has to be, is this cost
effective for the tax payer?
Would it be cheaper to deliver
those services in-house?
And is the risk greater
by contracting out a private company
that could potentially fail,
or is it better to have them
in-house with a body that's
to the people of Britain?
But essentially there's not
a huge difference now
between you and what the government
is doing anyway.
You're not saying, we're
going to end stuff, you just say,
we're going to look at them
on a case-by-case basis,
and make sure that nobody
is earning excess profits.
Now, if you ask the government
whether they believe
that is happening, they would
presumably say no.
The government's approach
to outsourcing is completely
different from Labour.
They are driven by outsourcing as
part of their ideological make up.
But isn't your ideology to get
the public sector to do more?
To bring everything in-house?
No, this isn't about ideology.
This is about what's best
for public services,
and what is the most cost-effective
method of delivering public services
for the UK taxpayer.
Now, the Conservatives unfortunately
have chosen an ideological path
to marketise public services and put
profit before service delivery.
Now, the interests of the public
and the interests of the taxpayer
should be paramount.
They are not being considered
by this government,
and that is what differs our
position from the Conservatives.
Do you think a Labour
government could commit
to ending PFI completely?
Well, we have committed
to ending PFI.
We've said no new PFI.
No new PFI.
No new PFI.
But would you end all
the PFI arrangements that
are existing at the moment?
Well, legally, we'd have
to look at the mechanics
of each relevant contract.
As I said, there would need to be
an examination of each one.
They will all be very different.
And we would have to look
at the ways we could bring
that back in-house.
There could be certain contracts
that are due to expire shortly,
where it might not be cost-effective
to carry out the legal
costs of doing that,
so we have to look at them
on a case-by-case basis,
but we are very firm that we do not
support a PFI model going forward.
We need to examine other ways
of delivering our large
infrastructure and estate related
projects that are more
cost-effective for the UK tax payer.
But when you look at individual
services, such as prison escort or
school meals, is that something you
can still imagine the private sector
I think it is a struggle to
see, for example in the case of
Carillion, how that can be
cost-effective for a private
company, to deliver a profit and
also a good level of service. This
is why there needs to be a
fundamental examination of the
delivery of public
delivery of public services.
delivers prison escorts. Would you
take that on?
We need to examine the
most cost-effective way for the UK
Would you consider it?
If it's cheaper and more secure to
deliver those services in-house, we
would do it.
You would do bin
collection, school meals and prison
escorts without using private
We are not saying it.
There might be certain cases where
we use private companies where we do
not have that capability. We need to
look at building up capability. We
think it will be more
cost-effective, in many cases, to
bring services in-house, which is
why we have been calling for many of
the public sector contracts that
Carillion hell to come back
If there has been a profit
warning, is that reason enough to
say, we are not dealing with you any
If you are following the
strategic risk policy, you have to
follow that guidance stringently,
which would mean you would not award
any further contracts to that
company until the situation is
rectified. The government is
required to ensure there is a crown
representative to oversee Carillion
when problems started to emerge. As
far back as September, we know this
didn't happen. There was no
appropriate oversight of this
contract. There was no attempt by
the government to mediate or
encourage Carillion to sort the
situation out themselves. It was
left out in the wilderness.
oversight was there? So why would it
be right to bring even more
government services back in-house to
be overseen by the people you don't
trust to look into the accountancy,
let alone run the proper businesses
themselves. You are talking about
civil services that didn't get it
We are talking about bringing
services back into the NHS, for
example, and we would want to make
sure there is a stringent assessment
of the capability of those services
to deliver those services.
to deliver those services.
have... Wood July to see mandatory
reselection of every Labour MP?
is not a decision for me to make.
That is a decision for our
membership to make.
Is that the
right direction to go in?
party democracy. It is not a
decision for me to make. We want the
members to decide how our party will
be run going forward, which is why
we are having a democracy review.
It's not something we've stated the
party will be doing any time soon.
We have trigger ballots in place at
the moment, where branches of
the moment, where branches of a
Labour Party constituency can decide
whether to have an open or closed
selection of an MP. That is our
process at a moment.
Our political editor,
Nick Watt, is here.
There was something
interesting about mandatory
selections in there...?
She is saying that that is not going
to happen any time soon, and she
refers to the status quo, which is
the trigger ballots. There were
fears among centrist Labour MPs that
these mandatory selections could be
on the way, because there was a
landslide victory for momentum
candidates in elections to Labour's
National Executive Committee.
Rebecca Long-Bailey tends to vote
the Corbyn way, and she has been
mentioned by Jeremy Corbyn
supporters as a potential successor.
So far heard to say, not happening
any time soon, will be noted.
This week, four-time Rio Olympic
champion Simone Biles became
the highest profile athlete to state
she was sexually abused
by former USA gymnastics team
doctor Larry Nasser.
She's one of more than 140
women to have accused
the 54-year-old of abuse.
Larissa Boyce says she was sexually
abused by Larry Nassar
when she was just 16.
Morgan McCaul says she was abused
by Nassar when she was
just 12 years old.
Both women join us
now from Michigan.
It is very nice of you to talk to us
about this. Can I ask you to explain
what happened with Larry Nassar?
actions that he did.
In terms of
what happened to you and what you
Well, I was a gymnast, and I
hurt my back, so my coach
recommended that I go to him,
because he was the best around. So I
went and saw him, and he's started
abusing me. After a couple of
appointments, when my parents
stopped coming into the room with
me. And he would abuse me every time
I would see him. At the office, and
at the gymnastics practice at
Michigan State University, where the
I don't want to
interrupt, but you told somebody
about this. You tried to make this
known. And what happened?
When I told Kathie Klages, she
humiliated me. She didn't believe
that Larry Nassar could be doing
this, I must be misunderstanding.
She then paraded in a bunch of my
team-mates to ask if any of them
felt uncomfortable with what he was
doing. All of them but one other
girl said no, so she kept the other
girl in the office, and had asked
talk to the Michigan State College
gymnasts. I remember sitting in her
office, and she was not in her room
any more, but the college gymnasts
said, his hands would get close to
certain areas but that they would
never be inappropriate. They would
never go inside. I said, that is not
happening to me. His fingers are
I'm sorry. Very
distressing to make you relive this.
I want to talk to Morgan as well. If
Larissa's allegations all those
years ago had been believed, you
would have been spared.
When Larissa originally came forward
to her coach, I hadn't even been
born yet. I was born in 1999, and
this occurred in 97.
And he was
still doing the same thing with
young gymnasts, young pupils, that
he was in those early days. That was
your same experience, Morgan?
we had very similar experiences in
terms of what he would do to us in
What effect has it
had longer term on each of you.
Morgan, if I carry on with you. What
effect has it had on you?
struggled with depression and
anxiety ever since. I stopped seeing
Nassar in 2015, but what I believe
this has taken from me is my sense
of identity and my ability to trust
people. I feel like I totally
trusted Nasser. I believed he was
there to help me. He was very
personable. I felt like he was my
friend. And to find that the Man U
trusted more than any other
physician in the world did this
makes you wonder how much you can
trust your own judgment.
when these allegations became
public, and more voices came out, I
imagine for you that was a huge
watershed moment, but also a
frustration that it hasn't come out
At first I was defending
him, because I was so brainwashed
into believing that I was the
problem. You know, my MSU coach and
my teacher had told me that what he
was doing was OK, so I just assumed
that I was the problem, that I must
have a dirty mind. And so when this
all came out, like I said, I was
defending him, and then I really
started to look back and remember
the details of the appointments.
Being an adult, I realise that what
he did was not OK, and that it was
sexual abuse. I got very angry. I
think I experienced every emotion
possible. I was angry, I was
depressed, I was crying all the
time. I even one time had a suicidal
thought. I was in so much pain
emotionally that I just didn't know
how to handle all of the thoughts of
how betrayed I was I not just Nassar
but by MSU, Michigan State as an
institution, failed me. And they
failed all of these hundreds of
girls that came after me, and it
could have been stopped. So it's
very, very difficult to think of the
way it could have been stopped.
is incredibly brave of you to share
those thoughts with us tonight.
Really appreciate that. Thank you
both very much indeed.
A lawyer for Kathie Klages
has previously said...
Michigan State University
"Any suggestion that the university
covered up Nassar's horriffic
conduct is simply false.
Nassar preyed on his victims,
changing their lives
in terrible ways."
USA Gymnastics said...
"Our hearts break for these athletes
and we deeply admire their courage
and strength in sharing
We know the NHS in England
is struggling to cope this winter,
as it tries to manage unprecedented
levels of demand.
As more patients come
in through A&E, hospitals have
to get them out of the back door
so that the system doesn't seize up.
For many older patients,
this means having appropriate
social care lined up.
But many older or vulnerable
patients don't have anywhere to go
where they can receive the care
they need, heightening
the social care crisis.
Trevor Davies was
admitted on 21/12/17.
He has got a lot of issues, Trevor.
First of all, he tried
to commit suicide.
He promises that he's not planning
to commit suicide now,
but I am not too sure,
because he's still depressed.
He has said that he's had seven
heart attacks in the past.
He lost his daughter
on his birthday.
His daughter was only 44 years old.
He has got a lot of cancers frosted
in some way in his tummy as well.
The GP did see him yesterday, and he
has been prescribed pain relief.
In terms of the level
of support he is receiving
from you, I don't think...
I'm not hearing that he should
be in a care home.
The last 12 months have
been horrible, you know?
Like, going through a divorce,
my daughter dying on my birthday,
which wasn't very nice, you know?
And it sort of sent me
like into oblivion, you know?
And just what to do,
how to do, where am I going?
So they took me into
a hospital, and got me right.
I come out, and then got me
right again, and I'm sort
of going into the system,
and hopefully they're
going to give me somewhere
where I'm going to be
happy, you know?
This winter is the worst winter
in terms of hospital care that
people have experienced.
The flow of patients from hospital
used to be fairly steady,
but there was always availability.
I'm not coping, so I need
someone to help me cope.
When I've done the assessment
on the computer, and done that bit,
I will send it, as I said,
to my manager, who will look
at it and authorise it,
and once she authorises it,
I'll then go on to ask for funding
for your care package.
I'm dying of cancer.
So I'd like a bit of...
This place is full already.
And it is the place that kind
of supports the discharges
from hospitals, and acts
as a middleman between
the hospital and the community
facilities out there.
If you can imagine that it's full
of people waiting to go in there,
and if you can imagine that you take
this out, it's not there any more,
these people would be in hospital
waiting to be discharged.
I spent seven weeks in hospital,
and then they said they were going
to find a place temporarily,
so they put me here.
I have problems with the lungs,
infection on the lungs,
and also they are concerned
about my heart, and also my liver.
What's stopping you from going home?
There's three or four big steps
to the front door, off the pavement.
There's no shower.
I can't use the bath.
Besides that, I'm getting old now
myself, and I do feel it.
I think, in the future,
I need a bit of care.
Janet, on unit one.
I was just asked yesterday to meet
with her and do an assessment,
because I know there's a history
of concern around the alcohol.
Have there been any
concerns, any observations?
Not while she's been with us, no.
No evidence of any side
effects through not having
alcohol or anything?
We did notice it in the beginning,
when she first came to us,
because she wasn't getting
what she wanted, her way.
What is it you are drinking?
It's a special mix.
Fairly regular, anyway.
The social worker's main
focus is the patient.
This particular patient.
But when you look at the bigger
picture, there are many more
things to think about.
I don't mind being here.
I don't mind at all.
Do you know what kind
of a place this is?
It gives people time,
following hospital discharge,
just to improve a bit more, and have
time for an assessment to be done.
So there's a lot of demand,
you know, from hospitals.
That's why we tell people
when we come here,
it is for up to four weeks.
Yeah, I know.
And then we need to try and get care
in place in that time.
Already we're at four weeks,
but it's not your problem
or for you to worry about.
That's for us to sort out.
I can't live on my own.
Not live on your own?
I'll start drinking again.
So that's the bottom line?
I'll start drinking.
I won't eat either.
I'll just drink, drink, drink.
You're telling me that you know
that if you went back
and lived on your own, there's a...
I've done it so many times.
I've just gone straight
back to drink again.
Most of the older people that
I have worked with like
to have some choices.
They like to be in
control of their lives.
They like to be independent.
Why did you have to
move around, Janet?
Because I'm homeless.
I've got no home to go to.
And we're up to four weeks now.
Yeah, we are, yeah.
How are you feeling about that?
Who wouldn't be?
Who wouldn't be nervous?
The loneliness is a killer.
But I'm in hope, you know?
And when you see a lot of older
people which are worse off than me,
I feel sorry for them.
But I've got the terminal cancer.
Who knows when, who knows where?
I don't know.
At the end of the day, we're sitting
there in front of an individual,
but we can only work
within the constraints that we have
in our job, obviously.
You know, we have to help people
to understand that, and to work
within what is available to them.
There are times when that's a very
We know that that's not
what we would want for people,
but it is all we can provide.
That was a look at the Kenrick
Centre, a special counsel Robert
Mueller centre, designed to relieve
With me in the studio
is Graeme Betts, who is interim
director for adult social care
at Birmingham City Council.
Is the Kenrick Centre, which I know
you know well, representative of the
wider problem is that you're seeing
What the Kenrick Centre does is
to provide interim beds as well as
long-term beds. And it is critical
in helping us to manage the
pressures in the system.
And how bad
is the problem at the moment, are
you seeing it get worse?
I mean the
reality is, we can't deny there is a
lot of pressure on people like
myself and other directors to
mitigate that as far as possible.
But in reality, there's a lot of
pressure, that's what the staff are
telling us of. We're using our
resources such as the Kenrick Centre
to mitigate the pressure that's
coming through the system.
extraordinary to see the work going
on their - is that something that
can be rolled out, something that
you think will be more widely used
if there are resources to do that?
What's interesting about Birmingham
is that we've recognised that across
the system there are challenges
across the system, and we're now
working together very closely to
develop a more integrated approach
to intermediate care, and the sorts
of things that you saw in the
villainy would be part of that, so
we're expanding it.
There would be a
lot of people who aren't able to
make that transition from hospital
to home - when you haven't got a
Kenrick Centre, what happens?
would challenge that in some ways,
because what I would say is one of
the areas that we need to improve in
Birmingham is our enablement
really helping people regain their
confidence and ability to live at
home. If we could improve that, we
know that we can improve the
outcomes for people. So, as well as
the Kenrick Centre we need to
balance it by using home based
It's interesting you're
talking about confidence, so, it is
not just the fact that they can't,
it's giving people the sense that
they will be all right on their own?
Yes. What came through from that
film is the complexity of what we're
dealing with. It's not just that
there are more people coming through
the system, there are more people
with more complex needs coming
through the system, in terms of
physical and mental health and
challenging behaviours as well.
do you think that's something that
has changed over recent years?
Certainly. That's what the staff are
telling me. The people snap dealing
with now are poorly, the levels of
sickness are higher, and the
challenges they bring with them are
much more complex. I think that has
an impact in a number of ways, it
mixed the assessment more difficult,
particularly if you think about
trying to assess them in a hospital
setting, it is well nigh impossible
to assess a person's mental
capacity, for example. So, what
we're really trying to do is to use
centres like the Kenrick Centre to
bring people out more quickly from
hospital so that we can do the
in-depth assessment and ensure a
safe discharge and improve the
outcomes for people.
Thank you very
much for coming in. That is all we
have time for this evening. Kirsty
Williams with you tomorrow. From all
of us here, good night.