With Emily Maitlis. A senior Tory says the Brexiteers should be removed from the party. Plus on the centenary of the vote for women, what has the UK got right and wrong?
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Crunch time for the Conservatives, a
leading Tory calls on Theresa May to
stand up to a hardline Brexiteers
and throw them out of the party.
They're not the Tory party that
I joined 40 years ago and it's
about time Theresa stood up to them
and slung them out.
Because they've taken down Major,
they took down Cameron,
two great leaders, neither
of whom stood up to them.
All this on the day Michel Barnier
has come to Downing Street to warn
us at the time has come to choose.
Without the customs union
and outside the Single Market,
barriers to trade and goods
and services are unavoidable.
Not avoidable? We will ask Lord
Lamont if Theresa May's vision for
Brexit is getting clearer or
cloudier. Also tonight.
Look how far women have come
in the last one million years.
Tonight, on the eve
of the suffragette
centenary, we ask our panel
what we got right, what we got wrong
and where we're heading now.
Suddenly, everyone's stopped
mincing their words.
As the government clarified
there would be NO customs
,Michel Barnier, the chief EU
negotiator arriving in town,
said that would cause unavoidable
barriers to trade.
He called on the UK to explain
what it was looking for in terms
of future relations with the EU
and insisted that the time has now
come to make a choice.
So are those who favour
a short sharp break now
hanging out the bunting?
As for the rest - call
them Remainers or soft
Brexiteers or what you will -
are they feeling the cloud
of something long feared
becoming a stark reality?
Our political editor
Nick Watt is here.
You've been hearing
strong stuff from one
of the Conservative party's most
ardent Remainers tonight, Nick.
what you heard.
Anna Soubry has been
outspoken since the referendum, she
says her party appears to be in hock
to watch describes as 35 ideological
exit years and it is time Theresa
May stood up to them and threw them
out. If this doesn't happen Anna
Soubry who was in the Cameron
government as a Business Minister
said, if it comes to it I will not
stay in a party which is being taken
over by the likes of Jacob Rhys Mogg
and Boris Johnson. She says, we
simply cannot go on like this any
longer. Something is going to have
to give because if not, not only
will we get Jacob Rees-Mogg as Prime
Minister, we will get a
devastatingly hard Brexit. Anna
Soubry has said stuff in this sort
of territory in recent months but
hasn't gone quite this far. It's
also important to say that Anna
Soubry can at times go a little
further than some of the Remain Tory
colleagues but and picking up quite
a lot of frustration among those
MPs. So today I've been looking at
the pressures on Theresa May as she
looks to settle what the UK wants
for its future relationship with the
I'm not afraid, I'll
race you and I'll win.
Politics is, in many ways,
about the art of timing.
Winning can demand speed
but sometimes being patient
is the virtue that will ultimately
take you over the finishing
line in first place.
Look at that white tail flash.
And so it is proving with Brexit.
There have been unmistakable signs
of anguish amongst some Leave
supporters who fear that as time
marches on, their dreams of a clean
Brexit are slipping away.
And then there are Remainers,
who appeared to be biding their time
for a more complex exit from the EU.
The fears and frustrations over
the nature of the UK's departure
from the EU have come to a head
on above all one issue.
What sort of customs relationship
will the UK have with the EU?
Some Brexit supporters fear
the Treasury is nudging Theresa May
towards a version of the current
customs union which would make it
all but impossible for the UK
to negotiate free-trade deals
around the world.
Their nerves were calmed somewhat
this morning when Downing Street
ruled out this option.
The EU's chief negotiator,
Michel Barnier, was in
Downing Street today,
where he warned that
leaving the customs union
and Single Market would create
unavoidable barriers to trade.
Downing Street said this morning
that the UK would not be staying
in the customs union
or a watered-down version
dubbed "a" customs union.
The government is
looking at two options.
A customs arrangement
in which new technology will be
harnessed to create as frictionless
a border as possible
between the UK and the EU.
A customs partnership
in which the UK and the EU
would set their own tariffs,
but they would create
as frictionless a border as possible
by levying each other's tariffs
on goods transiting their borders.
I understand Theresa May
is still keen on this option.
But there is a third option that
could be pushed by Remain supporters
who point out that the EU has talked
of magical thinking in Whitehall.
This is the possibility of a vote
in Parliament later this year
to maintain a version
of the current customs union.
One Remain supporter warns
of serious consequences
if Theresa May refuses
to keep her options open.
Labour's front bench
itself is ideological.
My front bench probably isn't,
but it's in hock to 35 hard
ideological Brexiteers who are not
They're not the Tory party that
I joined 40 years ago and it's
about time Theresa stood up
to them and slung them out.
Because they've taken down Major,
they took down Cameron,
two great leaders, neither
of whom stood up to them.
Well, if it comes to it,
I'm not going to stay in a party
which is being taken over
by the likes of Jacob Rees-Mogg
and Boris Johnson.
They're not proper Conservatives.
If that means leaving the party,
form some new alliance,
God knows, I don't know,
but we simply cannot go
on like this any longer.
Something is going to have to give
because if it doesn't,
not only will we get Jacob Rees-Mogg
as our Prime Minister,
we'll get a devastating hard Brexit
which will cause huge damage
to our economy for
generations to come.
And I'm not prepared to sit
by any longer and put
up with this nonsense.
One Brexiteer insists that there's
strong unity in the party.
I've found a very strong unity
of purpose which is everybody agrees
that the British people said
we needed to leave the EU.
In order to do that we need
to leave the Single Market,
the customs union and regain control
of our laws and our borders.
And it is the politicians
who will determine how we set policy
and the civil servants
who will help implement it.
And where civil servants
have tended to speak out
perhaps more than is usual,
I think Jacob feels
that they have crossed a line
which is inappropriate.
Our political class is working
on one iconic clock.
As that now silent landmark ticks
down to the Brexit deadline,
the two sides know that whoever
masters the timing may
master the result.
Nick Watt there.
Joining me from Strasbourg
is Mairead McGuinness,
Vice President of the European
Parliament, and Lord Lamont
former Chancellor of
the Exchequer and supporter
of Leave Means Leave.
I will come to you in a second, Lord
Lamont. If I turn to Mairead
McGuinness, has had become much
simpler, do you understand the
government position better, as of
today? Not particularly. I think I
understand what the UK does not want
to be part of because very clearly
the red lines of the customs union
and the single market. By regret
that but I feel those are the red
lines. But I'm not sure what the
United Kingdom wants in terms of the
fib in partnership. I know these
items were published last August in
the position paper but the option
the prime ministers seems to be
backing is unprecedented and there
has been no worked until flesh out.
What we are watching is literally a
battle within the Conservative Party
about what it wants for Brexit, and
in the meantime we here at European
Union level are trying to make sure
that we do reach some agreement with
the United Kingdom because we want
to have a relationship, post-Brexit.
But we also have to finalise the
details of the withdrawal agreement
and a period so it would be quite a
busy time and this week is certainly
an interesting week in those
does it matter if all this is
unprecedented? For example when
Michel Barnier comes to London and
says terrorists are unavoidable,
they are not. Everyone is calling
everyone else's bluff -- tariffs are
I don't think this is a
game of bluff because in my office
for example practically everyday
there representatives of British
industry, whether from the
pharmaceutical sector or others
trying to get me to understand their
position and I understand it
completely. Because they have fears
about moving away from the European
regulatory framework when it comes
to access to pharmaceuticals for
example. Let's stop calling this a
game of bluff. It is not, it is
about people's lives and livelihoods
and this is why, politically this is
difficult. Michel Barnier needs to
spell out how things are. If the UK
leads the customs union and single
market and we don't know what will
be in its
be in its place, and right to do
that and I think that David Davis
understands that and I hope other
ministers understand it. What I hope
will happen this week is that
officials and others will come to a
better idea for the UK wants.
will better than most the huge
question over the Irish border. --
you will understand this better than
most. Do you really think the EU
parliament will pass any deal that
creates a border with an Ireland?
think the question is the other way
around. It is the one piece of text
I keep very close to my heart. It is
about this agreement which the
United Kingdom has made, it is
paragraph 49 of the text. I think
it's really important that the
United Kingdom has given a clear
commitment that would be no return
to a hard border on the island of
Ireland. It wants to do that in
terms of future arrangements, that
needs to be compatible, it is saying
they will have specific solutions to
the border... But with respect to
your position, I represent a border
community on the island of Ireland.
We know what we have today and that
is what we value. And we very much
appreciate the United Kingdom 's
agreement that there will be no hard
border and we would appreciate the
United Kingdom coming to the table
and negotiating with the EU so there
is no hard border. This is part of
the process, you know how difficult
the withdrawal agreement was, the
last minutes when it was finally
agreed on money and borders and
citizens rights? I hope it's not the
same with this feature partnership.
Because we needed for security of
business and others that we get some
sort of framework in place so that
business can understand what lies
Sure. Mairead McGuinness
thank you. Lord Lamont, first those
comments from Anna Soubry who was
called upon the Prime Minister to
show some spine and sling at the
hardline Brexiteers. She has named
Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg in
particular and she points to 35
others. Messi I think that is quite
ridiculous, frankly. I don't want to
be rude about Anna Soubry but she
does tend to go over the top
I think she is doing that
here. There are, obviously, while
the government is formulating its
approach, different voices from
different parts of the party.
not wrong when she says that the
divisions over Europe brought down
Major and brought down Cameron and
Theresa May will be the third victim
unless she stands up to them.
don't think these hardline
Brexiteers as you call them are
aiming to bring her down, far from
it, they are trying to influence in
Do you think they do
have that influence? Are they in
Of course not. They do
things that Anna Soubry was
objecting to, one leaving the
customs union, and never leaving the
single market. Theresa May has
decided to pursue that for two
simple reasons. The first with the
customs union is to have the freedom
to strike trade deals elsewhere in
the world, and leaving the single
market is essential because she
judges, and I think she was this
strongly, that the British public
will also determined that we should
have greater control over our
And you can't do
that unless you leave the single
market. Those of two reasons, it is
not to do with any faction in the
differently, she calls them
ideological Brexiteers who are not
Tories. Let me run is passing.
Something has to give. If Theresa
May doesn't stand up and show, as
she calls it, spine, not only will
we get Jacob Rees-Mogg as Prime
Minister, she says, we will get a
hardline Brexit that will cause
damage... Would you welcome Jacob
Rees-Mogg is Prime Minister?
she says devastating hardline Brexit
she was objecting to two things the
Prime Minister has decided. Leaving
the single market and leaving the
customs union. I have explained that
that is being done for logical
reasons, not because Jacob Rees-Mogg
or anyone else asked for it. Other
people have asked for it.
McGuinness, or you just heard, is
that not only is this unprecedented,
this is not a game of bluff,
businesses and people and lives will
be affected because there is no deal
possible without tariffs that cost
If there is a free trade
agreement, tariffs will... There has
to be free-trade agreement because
it is overwhelmingly in the
interests of the European Union.
Make the assumption that the EU is
rational and will look after own
We keep telling ourselves that it is
Europe's interest to come to the
table and give us the deal we want
but Europe has made very little of
the running so far and it will
survive without the UK.
sitting in the UK, quite
understandably, the way you look at
it, you say, this is what the EU
wants, that's never going to change,
and here's what Britain once, it is
unattainable. That's how the
domestic press look at it but it
isn't the reality. What was said
before the financial settlement was
agreed, 100 billion, that has never
come down and in the end the EU
changed its position and Theresa May
got what she wanted and I think that
will happen again.
Thank you for
The White House has said
it is "concerned" about the fall
on US stock markets today
after the Dow Jones Industrial
Average dropped by 1,175 points,
the biggest one-day fall
in six years.
Our business editor
Helen Thomas is here.
What happened, what is this down to?
Just to put a bit of context, this
is a huge drop, the biggest
percentage fall in six years. I
think it's the biggest fall in
points terms ever on the Dow. What
will have rattled people, at one
point today it was down nearly 6000
points in a short space of time,
there was a sense of panic selling
-- 1600 points. There was a pretty
big drop on the markets in the USA
on Friday, and the same in Europe.
The stock markets had a very strong
January and they've wiped out those
gains in a couple of days and some
are down for the year. We are seeing
that of the two years where stock
markets only went up, in a straight
line, volatility is definitely back.
A massive jump in the so-called fear
How do you see these
Everyone has been waiting
for a market correction, markets
going up, there have been concerns
about overvaluation. The question is
whether this is a quick, healthy
correction after which people see an
opportunity to get back in or is it
something more lasting? The
important thing is that this started
in the bond markets, they've been
selling off since the beginning of
the year. It started with good news,
a stronger global economy, making
people think that maybe Central
banks are going to put the brakes
on, fewer interest rate rises than
we thought and it rattled the
markets. What people are worried
about is that it may be a more
pronounced pick-up and there is
uncertainty especially about
inflation. If that's the case it has
the prospect of causing more
problems and having a lasting effect
on the markets.
Thank you for
Tomorrow marks 100 years
since the first women
won the right to vote.
The day will be marked in a speech
by Theresa May praising the herosim
of the suffrage movement and warning
that debate in modern
politics is being coarsened
by bitterness and abuse.
Tonight, we devote the rest
of the programme to asking
if we should feel proud of how far
we've come in since 1918
or berate the lack of more
With our panel of guests we look
at then, now and the whole
issue of gender itself.
Is that now going out of fashion?
Here's a brief history
of the journey with a bit of help
from the DVD collection.
Remember when cavewomen
used to dress like this?
We've come a long way
since the Lower Paleolithic period
though it doesn't always
feel that way.
The history of women's progress can
be told through cinema.
Women should not exercise judgment
in political affairs.
Although the fact this film,
Suffragette, took so long to make
and went bankrupt along the way
probably tells us much of the story
as much as the film itself.
It spoke of women winning a
political voice at the bollard box.
It spoke of women winning a
political voice at the battlot box.
It spoke of women winning
a political voice at the ballot box.
We are in every home,
we're half the human race.
You can't stop us all.
In Land Girls, we saw how war forced
women to match up to the men,
entering the workforce
in their hundreds of thousands in
the first half of the 20th century.
Fast forward to the late 60s,
that workforce of women,
beginning to win the right to be
paid the same as men
for the work they were doing.
Unarguably, that's still
a work in progress.
Sorry, I thought the secretary
would sit out here.
I'm the secretary.
By the '80s, the shoulder pad
embodied the boardroom power battle.
Women working their way up
to leadership positions
in business and politics,
even if they did still
call on Harrison Ford
to lead them there.
As societal acceptance of single
teen motherhood was landed
in audience's laps with Juno,
a film that dares to frame
the question of abortion before
plumping, big-time, pro-life.
What, are you ashamed
that we did it?
Because at least you don't have
to have the evidence
under your sweater.
I'm going to head out.
Oh, no, no.
Why don't you stay over?
Yes, no, I'm not going to stay here.
You have an early day.
Meanwhile, Amy Schumer
was telling men on a one-night
stand what to do in bed,
the sexual revolution dictated
by women who knew how to enjoy sex
and when to tell men to go home.
Whilst Hollywood took these messages
of female empowerment and threw
money at the women's revolution,
behind the scenes the exploitation
was flourishing, as the me too
movement continues to lay bare.
And you don't have to look
hard to find a battle
still being fought in the workplace.
So that was the first 200,000 years.
Will the next few move any quicker?
Which way will feminism go now?
Joining me to discuss this
I have the artist Tracey Emin,
the novelist Anne Atkins,
the former deputy leader
of the Labour party
Harriet Harman, and Ash Sarkar,
the senior editor of Novara Media.
What a pleasure to have you here.
Harriet, was there a time in your
life that was pre-feminism? Was
there an awakening when things felt
Absolutely, distinctly, I
remember growing up, the idea that
the big ambition for a girl was to
have a good husband and when she'd
achieved this ambition, to be a good
housewife to that husband. And men
were regarded as superior and women,
subordinate. The thing about the
women's movement, they came along
and said we aren't inferior, we want
to be treated as equal and to be
partners with our husband.
accept it at first?
I didn't because
my mother didn't accept it, she said
to me, most people think that if a
man says something it is more likely
to be true than if a woman says it
but I don't agree with that. So I
was getting subversive messages.
However also getting the general
view that I should get a husband and
get a bit of education but not too
much because no man would want to
marry a girl who is too clever by
half in case she outshone him. A lot
of mixed messages and then the
women's movement came along and
said, forget that, we want to be
equal in the home, outside the home,
in public life, everything else.
Ash,, do you think there has been a
woman for you or has feminism been
I was lucky in how I was
raised, I grew up with feminism, my
mum from an early age would make
picture books with my sister and I
doing adventurous things so we'd
grow up with a sense of possibility
but we were taught about experiences
in the women's movement in the 70s
and 80s. She told us it wasn't the
most accommodating place to be a
woman of colour and while we talk
about the mainstream history of
feminism, the one we are celebrating
today, there is a counter history of
feminism led by female trade
unionists, by migrant women, women
of colour, and crossing with the
anti-colonial and antiracism
movements. One of the important
things to remember is that there
isn't a single feminist movement.
they contradict each other or do
they pull in different directions?
Often people in different directions
but they don't have too. They go in
different directions because social
movements reflect the hierarchies in
society and it's only through
solidarity that we can redress that.
I can't think of a contemporary
artist who has lifted the lid on
women are more than your work,
whether it is sexual behaviour,
abortion, the sort of, you know, the
raw truth about what it is to be a
woman and all the difficult bits. Do
you think you started a conversation
that wasn't being had before?
think a lot of the things that
happened to me in my life, whether
it's rape, whether it's abortion, I
was raised by my mum, a single mum
who raised me, I think having those
experiences made me a much stronger
woman because it's pretty painful,
the whole thing is painful, being a
woman is excruciatingly painful.
When you talked about rape and when
you talked about your own abortion,
did you feel that was breaking a big
I think so, a lot of women
are really ashamed about abortion
for example but I've always said
that no woman wants to have an
abortion, you don't wake up and feel
like having one. You do it and it
feels horrific to go through that,
no woman wants to have an abortion.
You are in a position where it is
Hobson's choice, you have no choice.
Maybe in hindsight you regret it but
at the time that's all you can
possibly do and you feel very much
alone. I think society has been
incredibly cruel to a lot of women
who have made that decision one way
Do you think this is a
valuable conversation that is being
had now? Has this been a liberation
We're speaking as if
feminism was invented in the late
20th century but I think it goes
back thousands of years. You think
about the campaign to end war, and
men who have campaigned...
of the points that Tracey made,
talking about abortion and being
able to have one, is that progress?
Yes, the last hundred years have
been progress. I think we've made
mistakes, as you do with any radical
changes. I think the biggest mistake
I would pinpoint is when, you know,
there are some ways in which 100
years ago women's lives were better
than men's. Instead of men's being
raised to women's standards... For
instance, lung cancer, men have very
steadily fewer and fewer of them are
dying of lung cancer, more women are
dying of it. We are doing something
wrong, 100 years ago, women smoked
You could take breast cancer
and prostate cancer and reverse
That's not what I'm saying,
alcoholism, men used to be three and
a half times more likely to be
drinking to their own detriment, now
the gap has narrowed in the wrong
direction and the same with
promiscuous sex and all sorts of
things. Of course we'd agree that
the last 100 years have been huge
progress but not everything has been
A lot of women were dying
before the age of 45 in childbirth.
They didn't make it past 45,
forget lung cancer, they didn't even
get through childbirth.
hearing what I'm saying, by and
large it's progress, of course it
is, we are grateful for the last
hundred years, but I'm not saying
we've got everything right. Of
course we haven't.
I'd like to make
more progress in promiscuous sex,
I'm speaking for myself here. But
the point I'm making is that one of
the things I think we need to get
back to doing is talking about power
rather than just personal choices. I
think that a feminism that
emphasises how much sex is the
feminist amount of sex to have, how
much you should be drinking, misses
the point. The point is that women,
politically, socially and
economically are disempowered. It's
really nothing to do with these
We all agree, I'm
pinpointing a tiny detail about what
we're talking about, we haven't got
everything right, that's all.
the big issues, the gender pay gap,
generating hundreds of column inches
and this column shows that the gap
is still present. By the time a girl
hits 20 years old there is a pay gap
and that expands as women hit
I know you want to come in Harriet,
how can we be 47 years on from the
equal pay act and still be talking
discrimination... In the past, in
the pre-feminist days, it was
positively regarded as a bad thing
to argue for a woman's pay rate to
be equal to a man's because he had
to be the breadwinner and bring home
the family wage and it was
distracting against the struggle for
him to have a proper wage for her to
have a proper wage so it was frowned
upon, even in the trade union
movement. And the argument then was
that then women were entitled to
equal pay and not everyone agrees
that it is right that they should
but of course pay discrimination
flourishes in secret. Now we have
the transparency that is coming in
but everyone is going to have to
publish their pay gap if they employ
more than 250 people, by April. And
at that point we will be able to see
laid bare the extent of the
discrimination and be able to tackle
and but part of it is because of the
unequal division of Labour in the
home. If you've got a situation
where women have most responsibility
for caring for children and older
relatives the corollary is that they
lose out in the workplace. That is
why men's involvement in the home
with their children and the elegy
relatives is as important as women
being able to do more at work.
we overly defined the role that men
can play without feeling emasculated
or damaged in some way? Women can
now do everything, can't they. They
can do every job and they can stay
at home and look after children but
it is much harder for a man to take
that role in the home without it
The thing here is that we
fought for maternity pay and leave
to be longer and higher. We also
fought for paternity pay and leave
but actually at some point we are
saying, why don't men fight for
paternity pay instead of saying to
us how hard it is for them to us to
work part-time why don't they fight
for that because we can't fight
men's battles as well as women's.
the equal pay thing everyone keeps
talking about hundred years and it
isn't. For most women it is 90
years. The vote for the majority of
women came in in 1928 and you had to
be a property owner, you had to be
university educated and you had to
be over 30. So we can now start
talking about class. That cut at the
of women in this country. And sadly
enough, the majority of women in
this country will only vote for
their husbands vote for, I'm afraid
and a lot of people showed me down
for that but it is true.
you mentioned class and I think this
is a good time to think about how
race class and gender work together
because there is a gender pay gap
and it gets worse if you are a woman
of colour. A black woman is three
times more likely to be unemployed
than a white woman. All these things
have economic outcomes. It also
means you can have a patriarch you
without the immediate figure of the
patriarchy, just these deeply
unequal outcomes that need
addressing, it's one of the things
that has negatively affected us. Can
I finish this, one sad thing as the
demise of union agitation for better
pay and conditions along the lines
of gender and race. In the era of
Sheryl Sandberg we think that if we
improve our attitude we will be
treated better at work, no...
just ask, is the problem that women
have tried to emulate the male
working patterns instead of
discovering their own?
It is amiss
characterisation to imply that
feminism is about individualism. For
the most part feminism is about the
grid of solidarity and what we
wanted was collective feminism in
the workplace for trade unions to
adopt the rights of women as well as
her man. Some feminists have argued
for individualism but the majority
would want collective action.
is more than one strain of feminism.
I'm saying that there's a different
kind of history, socialist famine in
I'm glad you brought up
the fact that women of colour are
even more discriminated against
Of course we must
address that. But is a fundamental
difference between racial
discrimination and gender
discrimination in that one day we
can envisage full equality across
the races. Let me finish. With
sexual differences, in a sense,
there will never be that unless we
are constantly striving for it
because women will always be more
vulnerable. We are weaker
physically, generally speaking and
our reproductive functions make us
more vulnerable socially.
we will wipe out racism before we
We will never... Because
when I walked down the street I am
more vulnerable than one my husband
walks down the street. That's
obvious. The reason I raise that is
because there is a sense in which we
will always have to keep striving
for sexual equality and we will only
get it when we get things like child
With all due respect I think
this is historical. If you look at
this Public and private divide
between home and work this is a
product of the industrial
revolution. Similarly racism is a
product of historical forces. If I
can just say it in terms of what I
have felt has held me back in my
life, I have experienced the most
violence and hostility, it has been
because of my race, not my gender.
Of course. Maybe in 500 years we
will have babies born in labs but
the point is that women have to take
more time out to have a baby even if
it's only a few days it's still more
than men have to. So unless we have
proper childcare and keep fighting
going to move us on because Anne has
talked about the future, 500 years
and babies born in labs and
something interesting is going on.
So what's the future of this debate?
Where will it go next?
Following the Women's March
in Washington last year,
there was a backlash from some women
about how female empowerment
is being framed.
The use of pink pussy hats
and banners associating the movement
with vaginas were criticised
by transgender activists.
This year the Pussycat movement said
it would discard the pink hats
and the vagina as symbol of female
empowerment to make sure
no-one felt excluded.
So I wonder what the future looks
like. Tracy and will start with you.
Are we re-evaluating gender as a
When I first went to art
school in 1983I was interviewed by
two women and they asked me one
question, what do you think of
feminism. This was in 1983 and I
said I don't. They said why not. I
said, I just have to do what I have
to do to get on and that has been my
attitude. A lot of women spend too
much time talking about things,
getting theories, sitting down, it
is no good just sitting down at a
table and being an armchair
feminist. You have to get out there,
change things, have a voice, be
motivated. I've changed a lot in the
art world. I have changed a lot for
women. I have a very loud voice on
women's issues because I live them.
I'm not sitting around
philosophising. I have gone through
these things. I have been raped. I
have had abortions. My list of
catastrophes in my life is endless.
I'm not looking through a history
book and guessing what will happen
in the future, talking about here
and now and how we must change
things and what we must do. I'd like
to see one big policy change and I
think it would make life that for a
lot of women in this country.
like an end to the hostile
environment immigration policy. In
March last year a five months
pregnant woman who had been
kidnapped and raped over a period of
six months went to the police to be
reporter experience. She was taken
to a rape crisis Centre and then
arrested and interrogated for
immigration offences. The
immigration policy we have today
makes women vulnerable. We
incarcerate victims of torture,
sexual violence, that's got to end.
It has to come back too, for you,
race, race is to be intrinsic to the
Race and class.
right. To Anne and Harriet, this
movement to take the vagina out of
feminism, to de-gender everything,
do you understand that? To say, I
don't want to recognise the female
of the feminine, I want to move
somewhere totally neutral?
always a bit anxious when the
general progressive movements seem
to be arguing amongst themselves
rather than looking to the wrongs
out there. I think rather than an
internal critic of feminism we
should look at the problems of
misogyny and turning ourselves
outwards. Every sort of
discrimination and prejudice is
wrong, whether it is on race,
disability, gender or sexual
orientation. Everyone has to fight
in their own way. But all of them,
whatever people are doing on this
issues is better than those opposing
change and opposing equality, so I
think in a way we shouldn't have a
hierarchy of inequality or judge
each other too harshly because we
are always being judged ourselves.
We have to try to be generous to all
of us who are fighting against
hatred and prejudice, and for
Anne, I will give you the
I want to go back to you
started, personal experiences. My
inspiration through life has been my
mother, the most amazing person. She
came to this country at 18 on her
own from Australia to take up a
maths scholarship when women
couldn't take degrees in a man's
subject, she took some of the best
mathematicians in the country, and
yet her greatest joy, I will be shot
down in this but her greatest joy
was being and a mother. What my
mother had that was a wonderful was
the most terrific joy in life. She
had her choices.
had her choices. She had a fantastic
brain and yet even more important
than maths, which she adored was the
people in her life. She symbolises a
She still had a
period and had to pay tax on every
tampon and sanitary towel she used
and that should be stopped
immediately, but is barbaric. She
never mentioned it because you just
enjoy to life. Week have run out of
time, thank you all for coming in.
Evan will be here tomorrow, thank
you all for watching
and a very good night, Bye
With Emily Maitlis. A senior Tory says the Brexiteers should be removed from the party. Plus on the centenary of the vote for women, what has the UK got right and wrong since then?