09/03/2018 Newsnight

Yesterday this programme revealed

a culture of abuse and bullying that

has gone largely unchallenged

in the House of Commons.

Tonight, we hear from more

Westminster staff who fear

that the muted response

to our revelations shows that

nothing will change.

They are known bullies walking

around the place and the house seems

to think they've sorted everything

out.

So what - do we just wait

until they do it again and

report them ad infinitum?

The investigation intensifies

into the poisoning of

Sergei and Yulia Skripal.

If the finger points

at Moscow, what action can

the British Government take,

and would Russia even care?

We ask a former Russian MP and

Kremlin adviser.

We understand that you don't

like Vladimir Putin

as president of Russia,

because he is making Russia great

again, as Donald Trump tried to do

with the United States of America.

And as it's announced that the US

President will meet the supreme

leader of North Korea,

we get the exclusive

reaction from Donald Trump.

Or at least somebody

who sounds a lot like him.

It's such an important meeting,

usually my pout is here.

For this meeting

it's going to be here.

I've got to bring my A game.

Good evening.

Downing Street today backed calls

for an investigation into complaints

of bullying made against

the Commons speaker John Bercow.

The Prime Minister,

we are told, retains

confidence in the Speaker,

though a spokesman says

she's "concerned".

That's because last night

Newsnight revealed complaints

against Mr Bercow and two other MPs.

And tonight it's emerged an MP

is planning to ask an urgent

question in Parliament on Monday

about those allegations.

The Green Party's Caroline Lucas

believes there's cross-party support

for a change in the way

Parliament deals with complaints

from its staffers.

Chris Cook and Lucinda Day reported

yesterday, on the frustrations

of Commons clerks who believe

parliament turns a blind eye

to bad behaviour from MPs.

Today, they've been hearing

from staff at Westminster, who say

the reaction to last night's report

shows nothing's changed.

The MP exploded at me

so aggressively that my colleagues

stood between us to physically

shield him from me.

I didn't feel that there

was anywhere for me to go

to talk about it.

He was particularly nasty to those

he felt were below him.

He went mad at me.

It got very personal.

Newsnight revealed

yesterday that there is a

serious rot in Westminster.

Bullying and harassment by MPs.

And it's directed a shocking

amount at clerks.

The apolitical staff who umpire

and run the lower house.

And women clerks in particular.

Last night Newsnight

reported that three MPs

have been accused

of bullying clerks.

Mark Pritchard, Paul

Farrelly and John Bercow.

All of them deny the claims

made against them.

There's more interest in John Bercow

than the other two, because he

is in effect the boss

of the clerks and it's

his job in part to fix

the culture of Westminster.

As it happens today

was a training day for

clerks, an opportunity for managers

to win back worried staff.

They didn't do very well.

The house management did

send out an e-mail to

staff though, saying that harassment

and bullying of any kind is

totally unacceptable.

They reassured staff

that the current system, introduced

in 2014, means things are very

different now to the way they

used to be.

Here, though, is what serving

staff think of that.

We have been sent written testimony

from them this evening.

After that e-mail went out,

and after today's training day.

As a Commons employee, I'm

disappointed although not surprised

at the House's dismissal

of the issues raised in your report.

The house's response means I've lost

any favour may have had for

a complaint made under the current

respect policy would achieve

anything positive for the staff

Since 2014, 17 cases have been

raised under the new HR policy.

None has got as far

as workplace mediation.

No MPs have been sanctioned.

Any process has to demonstrate

an MP being disciplined

in a meaningful way.

Remember lots of clerks

have had reason for

complaints about lots of MPs.

This topic is not going away.

There this political

excitement about

whether specific MPs are bullied.

And Chris is here.

Chris, we'll come

to you in a moment.

But first, we're also

joined by Amy Leversidge.

She's the Assistant General

Secretary of the First

Division Association,

which is the union which represents

many of the civil servants

who work inside parliament.

Let's start off with, what is your

view of the situation? Your union

hears things, too. How bad is it

compare to a Whitehall department?

That is an interesting question. As

trade union officials we hear

stories about bullying and

harassment across the piece. What's

different about the House of Commons

is that it is a completely different

employer. You have got the employer

and the staff, but you have also got

MPs who are not employees, they are

elected. That is the difference die

mention about the House of Commons.

-- dimension. You have got people

doing the bullying and MPs who are

not employees of the house.

Also,

their reserve onto themselves the

right to be the final judges. You've

helped, along with the others

involved in the process, to try and

reform the system. 2007, 2011, 2014,

the so-called respect policy. Why

has that not stopped the problem of

bullying?

In 2014, we work really

hard on the respect policy in the

House. The unions at the time worked

as hard as they could to get the

best deal possible. But the policy

still is flawed fundamentally

because there is no independent body

that oversees what happens with the

MPs. That is the problem. Obviously

it's really important that staff

have trust and confidence in any

system. They will only have trust

and confidence if there is an

independent oversight into what

happens with MPs.

Quite. Under the

current laws, and MP has to cause

damage to get the reputation of the

House as a whole. It is a pretty

high bar. Has any MP been charged

with causing damage to the House as

a whole?

This is one of the

fundamental problems. It is a very

high bar.

No is the answer.

Yes.

How

do you give it the independents, how

do you change the machinery in order

to create that independent

oversight?

We want to work with the

employers and the other trade unions

to sort out this and find solutions

to the problems. We need to have a

policy that has got the trust and

confidence of the staff. As you

report shows, it cannot be right,

absolutely inappropriate that we

have got dedicated public servants

who leave their jobs rather than

raising these issues. That's not

good for the House of Commons

either. They are losing these

experienced staff. We can't come up

with those solutions on our own in

the time with God. So what we need

to do is work together. They need to

involve the trade unions. They need

to involve ourselves and the others

to work together to find those

solutions.

Do you think it'll end up

with an outside panel being the

arbiters?

That is what we would like

to see. An independent body that

allows their to be proper scrutiny

and proper redress for people. It

can't be right that MPs are

basically marking their own

homework.

Absolutely. That is a

proposal. Where does this actually

go from here, Chris, in terms of

bringing about any real change?

The

big thing next week as Parliament

coming back. We published last

night. The House wasn't around

today. MPs were in their

constituencies. We are expecting an

urgent question on Monday from

Caroline Lucas. There seems to be a

lot of focus on John Bercow

personally partly because the

Speaker of the House has a tricky

reputation with some members of the

House. He is perceived by Tory MPs

as being April Labour speaker. What

we are expecting next week is a lot

of his existing critics, who have

cold frame to resign over a series

of things before, to use this as

another opportunity to call to

resign. We spoke to one of those MPs

who has previously called for him to

resign.

Well, I think next week lots

of members of Parliament will be

wanting to ask questions

in the chamber, wherever they can

into these allegations.

The Speaker needs

to be above the fray.

the clerks and these are very,

very serious allegations.

I think one of the questions about

this is going to be about the

interesting the horse race politics

of individual MPs being revealed to

be unpleasant individuals, that

might derail what is being done, and

attempts to fix the workplace.

I'm

sure you will keep us posted. Thank

you.

Police investigating the poisoning

of Sergei and Yulia Skripal have

expanded their search in Salisbury,

and called the military

in for good measure.

Officers in protective clothing

have sealed off the graves

of Skripal's wife and son.

The Army has gone to pick up

ambulances that were used

to take those affected

by the poisons to hospital.

Tomorrow the Home Secretary will

share an emergency meeting of Cobra.

While all this activity goes on,

scientists just a few miles up

the road at Porton Down have begun

the business of analysing nerve

agent samples, in the hope

of finding out where

the chemicals were produced.

If the finger points at Russia,

the pressure for some sort

of response will be intense.

Are you considering measures against

Russia?

As the foreign trip -- Foreign

Secretary suggested earlier this

week Britain's participation in the

World Cup could get dragged into

this.

Thinking ahead to the World

Cup this summer, I think it would be

very difficult to imagine that UK

representation at that event could

go ahead in the normal way. We would

certainly have to consider that.

However, the Kremlin is hardly going

to lose sleep at the prospect of

losing a few British officials from

its World Cup. Meanwhile, in

Salisbury things have moved on.

Scientists at Porton down have no

established details of the nerve

agent used on British streets.

Listening to Amber Rudd this

morning, it's clear they are no

moving on to where it came from.

At

the moment our priority is going to

be the incident, which is why I'm

here in Salisbury today, making sure

that everybody is protected around

here, around the incident. Making

sure the emergency services have had

the support they need and will

continue to get it on going. It has

been great to hear that is the case.

In terms of further options, that

will have to wait until we are

absolutely clear what the

consequences could be and what the

actual source of this nerve agent

has been.

With the military

deploying onto the streets of

Salisbury to help the police with

decontamination, there's no doubt

about the seriousness of the

situation. But if Downing Street is

preparing to point the finger at

Russia, what are they thinking of

doing about it? There has been

discussion of further economic

sanctions. Suggestions also that the

UK should enact a so-called law.

This kind of legislation has been

used in the US to target Russian

officials suspected of human rights

violations. Britain could target for

asset freezes and target bands --

travel bans Russians it holds

responsible for the Salisbury

attack. It may go beyond that. With

the UK officials sharing with allies

their preliminary assessment of

where the nerve agent came from, it

may be a bigger sporting boycott

reminiscent of Olympic ones in which

allies would be asked to join us.

Earlier, I spoke with Sergei Markov.

He was an MP in Vladimir Putin's

party, United Russia.

He's now director of the Institute

for Political Studies in Moscow,

and retains close

ties to the Kremlin.

I asked him how news of Mr Skripal's

poisoning had gone down in Russia.

Er of course it is awful that this

gentleman and specifically his

daughter can die because of

poisoning. It's awful. Russian

public opinion reacted not to the

Sergei Skripal case but to the great

propagandist atmosphere in the

British atmosphere demonising Russia

again. But we want to ask British

journalists and British politicians,

please, keep professional. Don't

violate freedom of speech. Don't

speed up a propagandist campaign so

highly. Please take into account

that we should establish such a

relationship and of course Sergei

Skripal was a negative figure for

Russia because he betrayed us that

Russia is a 21st century country.

The fact is, actually, the British

government is not yet accusing

Russia of doing it, although we do

see some indications that they are

preparing to do so. But at the same

time, we see commentators on the

first channel, the Russian official

state media and indeed President

Putin himself to some extent hinting

that traitors get their just

rewards. Do you believe that too?

Because at the beginning of this

interview you expressed some

sympathy for Sergei Skripal and his

daughter.

I expressed sympathy as a

Christian believer who doesn't want

anyone to die. Yet at the same

anyone to die. Yet at the same time,

we were told that the profession of

traitor is very dangerous. It is

even more dangerous than a member of

a drug market or so on. It is true,

everyone knows about this.

everyone knows about this. It is not

to threaten other traitors, but and

has an effect which everybody knows.

I hear your point about, as a

Christian believer, you do not wish

harm on him, but do you think we

will effectively see a Russian

official position that we didn't do

it but he got what he deserved. It

seems to me like an obvious

contradiction.

contradiction.

It's absolutely

clear, the Russian position, by

clear, the Russian position, by the

way, we got this gentleman but we

decided to give him to the United

States and to Britain, and it's all

for us. We want to forget about

Sergei Skripal,. He had already

broke his life when he decided to

betray Russia and to cooperate with

British intelligence services. 'S

and that's a victory for the British

intelligence service. It is how we

see this. We see that Sergei

Skripal, he's just a result of the

1990s. What can we do? We cannot

close history.

Well let's look

forward specifically to the next few

days and weeks. If the British

government, as seems likely, points

finger at Russia and then starts to

threaten retaliation in different

forms, sanctions, or gay sporting

boycott of the World Cup, for

example, how will that be in Russia?

It will be received in Russia as a

pity, or the next step of a war

against Russia. We understand that

you don't like Vladimir Putin as

President of Russia because he is

making Russia great again. As Donald

Trump is trying to do with the

United States of America. But we are

supporting Vladimir Putin exactly

for this reason. And if you attack

the Russian President Vladimir Putin

and demonise him, we will support

him more. Because we understand very

well and you are criticising Mr

Putin exactly for the things that we

like about them. I want to repeat

again, Sergei Skripal needs a real

investigation.

investigation. Police, control the

intelligence services. You are

British citizens. You are not

controlling your intelligence

services. Look what happened with

Ukraine. Look at what happened in

Syria when your spies cooperated

with terrorists.

We will leave it

there.

Democracy, come back to Great

Britain. Don't leave it to

terrorists to do what they are doing

without controlling the British

people.

Sergei Markov, thank you for

joining us. That was Sergei Markov

speaking earlier from Minsk.

Now, good news if you work

in a certain aircraft

factory in Lancashire -

not so good maybe

if you live in Yemen.

As Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince,

Mohammed bin Salman rounded off

a trip to the UK tonight,

his country has signed a letter

of intent to buy 48 more Typhoon

fighters from BAE Systems.

Britain is under fire

from human rights groups

for arming Saudi Arabia,

at the same time as Mr bin Salman,

one of the architects of the Yemen

war is portrayed by his country's

media as the kingdom's

best hope for human rights,

reform and renewal.

Today's announcements

about the planes followed

meetings with Theresa May,

Boris Johnson and the Queen.

Earlier, I spoke to

Sherard Cowper Coles,

formerly British ambassador

to Saudi and former consult to BAE.

I asked him if this deal

was good news for people

in factories across the UK.

Yes, good news for the British

economy, but also good news for

British influence

in the Middle East.

Good news for our relationship

with Saudi Arabia.

Good news for a Britain

leaving the European Union,

still to be a player

in this sort of area.

And the question you have to ask is,

if we hadn't gone ahead with

this order, what would have happened

to our relationship?

But also, where else

would they have gone?

But if the UK hadn't gone

ahead, would it in a

sense have cleaner hands,

because Saudi Arabia is now involved

in this war in Yemen?

It's a humanitarian disaster.

They're bombing civilians

with British-made weapons.

It's surely becoming

a bit more toxic for this

country, in that sense?

Well, it is for everyone.

The key is, do we want

to retain influence?

Do we want to help bring

about a peaceful settlement?

Do we want to remain a player?

And selling more weapons helps?

The alternative is not

selling weapons.

This is about the world as it is,

not as we would like it to be.

And we could break

off our relationship

with Saudi Arabia.

We could have not had

this week's visit.

But we have had no influence,

no, we wouldn't have been

a player in the Middle East.

When you were ambassador

in Riyadh, a decade plus

ago, was it more like the world

as one might have wanted it?

Was it an easier, less

controversial relationship?

I think when I was ambassador

there I was trying to

encourage change.

I remember briefing

British ministers to raise

the need to move forward

on women's rights,

to move forward on social rights,

to move forward on education.

And now we have a leader at last

in Saudi Arabia who is doing

what every friend of Saudi Arabia...

The crown prince is doing

what we have all urged him to do.

Do you think he is for real?

He is definitely for real.

Highly intelligent,

very enthusiastic, very

curious.

Very decisive, very young.

Someone who needs friends, needs

supporters, who needs people around

him to help him deliver this vision.

Someone immensely

popular in his country.

But there is another

interpretation, isn't there?

Some Western friendly steps,

like allowing women

to drive, allowing cinemas.

But a rate of public executions

that is higher than ever.

And indeed an anti-corruption drive,

which, when you talk to some Saudis,

just seems to be like

a shakedown operation

to bring in a lot of money

from rival princes.

Well, as I say, you take

the world as it is, not

as you'd like it to be.

It is an imperfect world.

But here is somebody

who is delivering reform.

It is not a question

of it being Western

friendly reform.

It is people friendly reform.

It is what the young people

of Saudi Arabia want.

And we need to use our influence

with him, administering tough love

in private to get the kinds

of results we want.

And tough love, does that

mean saying to him in

private, "Get out of Yemen,

solve this Yemen problem quickly -

because it is extremely

damaging to the image of

Saudi Arabia and the UK,

providing you with weapons?"

Well, it's not a question

of the image of Saudi Arabia.

It's a question of the right

solution for Yemen, for the

Arabian Peninsula,

for the region as a whole.

You need to remember, Mark,

that Saudi Arabia is actually

threatened from Yemen.

Rockets have been fired from Yemen.

It is now.

They are firing missiles,

but that was after Saudi began

its intervention.

Those attacks were coming

across the border before

Saudi intervened.

This is part of a perfectly

legitimate operation.

A lot of people will

tell you that the

Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman,

is the architect of this

disastrous intervention

in Yemen.

Is he therefore the man to get

Saudi Arabia out of it?

He is absolutely someone

we need to work with.

I'm quite sure Yemen

was high on the agenda.

It was not just lecturing

the Saudis just to get out

of Yemen and leave behind chaos,

but work with everyone involved to

produce a solution that delivers

stability, that delivers security

and above all delivers some relief

for the poor suffering people of

Yemen on all sides.

Sherard Cowper Coles,

thank you so much.

That was the former ambassador to

Saudi Arabia. A moment for

tomorrow's papers. Some of you old

school viewers may enjoy it when we

do this. The daily Mirror leading on

the Sergei Skripal story and the

fact that they have now sealed off

the graves of his wife and son. The

Financial Times also promises its

readers a long read on the poisoning

of Sergei Skripal and his daughter

Yulia and the police officer who

went to help them but their lead is

the White House- North Korea summit

plan. The White House trying to deny

the Koreans, a sort of PR win on

that one. The i newspaper has, once

again, the nuclear gamble with North

Korea. I suppose, reflecting the

idea that the talks could promise

much but what will President Trump

say when he gets into the room. And

finally the Daily Mail goes its own

sweet way, council parking charges

soaring. That's all on the front

pages.

Donald Trump

really has had quite a week.

Few in the White House or even the

Pentagon were expecting his shock

announcement that he is to meet with

Kim Jong-un. We are told the meeting

could take place before May.

Certainly a major gamble so what is

the president thinking of? To help

work out what he might have planned

Newsnight Cordoba earlier with Mr

Trump himself. At least we're pretty

sure was him. Emily is here on

Monday. Have a great weekend.

I thought Mark Urban

was great tonight.

I thought he was really first class.

He's a great rapper, great guy,

very lucky man being

married to Nicole Kidman.

What are we talking about?

This is going to be

a very friendly meeting.

It's going to be very charming.

It's going to be so

bigly convivial you

would not believe it.

We will exchange gifts.

Kim Jong-un will give to me a Korean

piece of vintage pottery.

I will give to Kim Jong-un vintage

American porn star Stormy Daniels.

It's a fair exchange.

It's such an important meeting.

Usually my pout is here.

For this meeting

it's going to be here.

I've gotta bring my A game.

It's going to be a very

important meeting.

We've got a lot to discuss.

It's going to go on for over an hour

- which is longer than most

of my White House communication

chiefs, but there you go.

This will be the perfect

opportunity to invite

Kim Jong-un on a state

visit to America.

Come on the golf course,

let's have some fun.

I'll give you lots

of bowler hats that

you can throw at people,

just like the guy out of Goldfinger.

It's going to be so much fun.

There are bigly big differences

we've got to resolve.

Kim Jong-un wanted

to destroy America.

He's just jealous I got there first.

And thank you for

calling me a dotard.

I don't know what that is,

but if it's good, then I'm in.

Are we done?

Next on the failing BBC,

fake weather or the test card,