Episode 3 Nolan Live

Tonight, should abortion

law be changed in line

with the rest of the UK?

Also tonight, we've the highest

ratio of problem gamblers

here in the whole of the UK -

have we lost control?

And what do you think,

have I lost any weight?

LAUGHTER

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

This is what it's all about tonight.

Thank you for joining us live on BBC

One. We have the studio audience and

you watching at home when we talk

about the big news stories of the

day.

A big story for Northern Ireland

is happening in the Supreme Court

in London this week

because the Human Rights Commission

is arguing that Northern Ireland's

abortion laws here are "inhuman

and degrading" to

women and girls here.

As it stands, abortion

is illegal in Northern Ireland

except to preserve the life

of the mother, but the court

is considering whether abortion

should be available to women

in cases of rape or incest or fatal

foetal abnormalities.

Chief of the Human Rights

Commission, Les Allamby,

is in London for the case.

Les, let us start with you then this

evening. What are you actual #4ri

fighting for, Les? What is happening

here? And why?

Good evening,

Stephen. We are taking this case

really for two reasons. One, we

think the current law in Northern

Ireland violates human rights in the

circumstances that you've just

outlined. Secondly, we are looking

for clarity on the law because as

the first two-days of legal argument

have shown very clearly, in the

cases of many women, and we heard

about the experiences of Sarah

Ewert, Deirdre and Ashley, in all of

those cases the current guidance

that was supposeded to provide

clinicians with some understanding

of the law failed to meet the needs

of those women. We also heard from -

You how is it breaching a woman's

human rights if they're not allowed

to have an abortion when this has

been debated in the Assembly and

locally elected people have voted?

They have voted against it, Les?

Well, there were two arguments that

played out in the last couple of

days. One is that the clear evidence

from the life and times survey

recently showed that the vast

majority of people in Northern

Ireland surveyed suggested that the

law should be changed to allow

terminations in cases that we are

canvassing. Secondly, the Assembly

must abide by human rights. The

Westminster Parliament, including

the Northern Ireland Assembly, has

signed up to the Human Rights Act we

think the convention rights as

provided in The Human Rights Act

must be abided bye-bye politicians.

All right.

It's not enough to be

elected.

There is it set out. You

were vocal on the Nolan Radio Show

about this. There was a lot of

reaction to what you were saying.

You have heard about the Northern

Ireland survey there. Womenle

deciding for themselves what will

happen with their body. What's wrong

with that?

The law should not be

changed. In fact the law in Northern

Ireland is not strong enough. If I

had power, I would actually abolish

human abortion completely. I believe

that a -

Force a woman who has been

raped to have a child?

You are going

to have two victims then. If you

sacrifice the life of the child you

will have two victims. Why should

the innocent child be punished for

the sins of its father. Punish the

rainist. Go -- rapist. It mite might

not be possible to infind the

rapist? The police should hunt for

him.

Of course they should hunt for

him.

The case should never be closed

until he is found. If he's never

found, never close the case.

What

about the wellbeing of the mother?

The mother in that particular

circumstance requires support,

perhaps counselling, medical care to

enable her to continue with the

pregnancy.

If she decides, no, she

doesn't want the child or indeed in

a case of fatal foetal be moral

where the doctor is saying, the

child is not going to live. Indeed

the child already doesn't have a

brain. No chance of life.

Doctors

are not infallible. They can make

mistakes in their diagnosis and they

have made mistakes in their

diagnosis. They are not God. They

get it wrong. No-one can take life,

only God can take life.

Why should

your view prevail over everyone

else?

It's not my view. This has

been the view of society for many,

many years. It is only because of

the sexual revolutionary and

revolutionaries like Les Allamby -

Sexual revolution -

Sexual

revolution.

What has sex to do with

this?

How do you think these women

are getting pregnant?

How are they

getting pregnant -

Sex has

everything to do with it. Illicit

sex -

We are talking about cases of

rape where obviously that has

nothing to do with it. We are

talking about cases of fatal foetal

abnormality where there is nothing

sexually revolutionary about that.

What are you talking about that?

In

the case of rape it's very unusual

for a pregnancy to result. Very

rare. Very rare. The sexual

revolution is behind this drive for

abortion. Please understand this, if

you understand nothing else. The

sexual revolution is behind this

demand for abortion. These feminists

want to live lives of sexual

anarchy. They want to be able to

take care of the consequences of

that sexual anarchy which is

unplanned pregnant cyst. --

pregnancies.

I don't know what we

are understand. Feminism is a good

thing. If you keep in mind what is

happening in Hollywood at the

moment. We are punishing women for

just existing. The question, I want

to make my fact clear -

What do you

say to what Susan says and the views

she represents?

I just don't think -

the rest of the UK had this 50 years

ago. How is it we are still in

Northern Ireland today squabbling

over this? We shouldn't force

anything like that on a person who

is already suffered through one of

the worst things you could put a

person through, women and transmen,

to turn around and say - you must

carry this child for nine months

because we are not changing our

lawses to fit in with the rest of

the UK.

Susan?

I say again, I

reiterate, the law in Northern

Ireland should not be changed. But

even as itten stands, it's not

strong enough. There should be no

abortion. Not for any reason.

Katie?

Well, I mean to say there should be

no abortion for any reason, I would

like to remind you in two-days time

it's the fifth an verse of -

She

died of sepsis, she did not die

because she was denied an abortion.

We need to have her have a chance.

She wented at Galloway University

Hospital she was in hospital in

intensive care where she presented

at hospital with a 17 week unviable

pregnancy she was miscarrying and

she asked for an abortion shechl was

told she koent because the foetal

heartbeat was present. She asked

several times again and was told

again and again she couldn't have an

abortion because the foetal

heartbeat was present as a result of

not getting the abortion she got

sepsis went into sepsis shock and

died of multi organ failure. The

doctors who examined her notes, they

said if she was given the abortion

she would be alive today. We would

never have heard of her. The chair

of the inquiry into her death said

she would be alive today and he

would have expedited this delivery.

Toll say that an abortion should

never happen. Women die in countries

where there is no abortion. If that

is what you are advocating you need

to backpack up your bags and go

home.

Have you read -

I have. It's

rubbish.

It's not rubbish. Object

are tritions.

Catholic

Would you

mind not shout ing me down.

You are

not bad at shouting yourself.

They

said that direct abortion is not

medically necessary to save the life

of a woman.

The Dublin declaration

has been denounced by -

Nonsense.

By

the current master -

You are a

revolutionary. You have links to

pro-abortion organisations. I do.

You want abortion on-demand.

I do.

Up to birth. For any reason.

Up to

12 weeks for any reason.

Any reason.

Don't tell me -

That's the end goal.

Don't believe this nonsense. The end

goal is these feminists wants

abortion on-demand for any reason at

any time up to and including birth.

Maybe I could tell you what I think

myself. I don't need to be spoken

for.

APPLAUSE

Just as you would choose to speak

for all women. Your views, you are

absolutely entitled to have them and

I respect them don't impose them on

women going through crisis

pregnanciies. -

Why would you have

them? Tell us why you had two

abortion.

No.

You murdered your two

unborn children. You are sitting

there as large as life and proud of

it. Shame on you.

I'm not ashamed.

You should be ashamed.

Hold on.

Don't you think that you should be

treating this whole subject with a

little bit more sensitivity?

When I

think of unborn -

Rather than

directing...

Being torn to pieces in

abortion clinics over this world. I

get hot under the collar. Who will

speak for the unborn child. I'm

concerned about the unborn child who

at this time throughout the world

they are being torn to pieces.

Hold

on.

Where is your compassion.

I will

give you room to respond to that. We

will bring in the rest of our panel.

The passion and the

single-mindedness of Susan White is

indicative of a feeling that is in

our community, that all abortion no

matter what is wrong.

That's fine.

How would you respond to her?

I

respect people's views to have that.

No-one is asking people to have

abortions who disagree with it. When

a woman has either a financial

crisis or she has so many children

already she can't have any more. Or

it will interrupt her education. She

has a fatal foetal abnormality or

she's been raped.

A financial crisis

should be a reason to say I'm not

continuing with a pregnancy.

If you

are a woman in poverty and can't

afford to have another child, I

think you should.

Should a life not

mean more than that?

If it's your

view. If I was a woman with four

kids already, a I think isle mother

and no money coming in except social

welfare -

What about allowing that

child to be born or adopted or cared

for by a family...

If a woman wants

to do that.

Should a father have an

equal decision?

No.

No, in this

world of equal rights and how many,

many women rightfully so are saying

their view is not being taken on

board, you don't think a father

should have a decision to make in

that?

I think -

An equal decision.

His views should be heard if he's a

loving partner. He he's not going to

have to carry the child.

Its his

child as much as the mothers.

If he

wants to carry it, look at way to do

that. Never impose your decision

that you should tell a woman to

carry a child to term if she doesn't

want.

The lady here.

I want to start

by saying Mrs Whyte I'm terribly

saddened by your attitudes. It's

very judgmental. I personally

believe a woman's body is a woman's

body, I think it's up to her. I'm

very sad Mrs Whyte I think you are

being quite aggressive. It's very

sad to judge people when you maybe

have not walked walked in their

shoes.

You are absolutely right I'm

judgmental because the Bible is very

judgmental about thousand shall not

kill. The Bible says thousand shall

not kill. That is pretty judgmental.

The Bible gives me the right. God

decides who lives and who dies.

OK.

Go-ahead.

I'm pro-life I will never

say I'm anything but pro-life. Mrs

White your view you need to come up

into the 21st century. Religion

should not be thrown down people's

throats. God said love your

neighbour.

Love your unborn

neighbour.

I said I'm pro-life that

girl went through something she

needed to have an I a borings for. I

agree that a life is a life from

minute of conception, but when it

comes to fatal be more nalts and

rape. I know people who have been

raped and kept their child at not

kept a child. I know people who had

abortion and cried their eyeballs

out because of it. That is not the

poin you need to realise it's a

woman's choice. Yes, as the girl

said, yes, the man should be

involved. I'm sorry, I do agree

there should be two people - it

takes two to make a baby. There

should be two people involved in

that conversation unless it's rape.

Tracey. My goodness.

Welcome to the

northern shore. I think every

abortion is a tragedy and all people

within society would want to do

whatever we can to reduce and

eliminate that terrible tragedy for

mother and baby.

You had a difficult

decision. What happened?

Around 2006

I had a lovely 3-D ultrasound scan,

in America living with my husband.

It showed everything was absolutely

healthy. We went on and on the 2nd

of November 2006 I had to give birth

to a little girl Kathleen Rose and

it wasn't until the day of her

birth, she took a severe respiratory

attack. We had no clue that anything

was wrong with her. She was rushed

to hospital and given medical

intervention. But into intensive

care, ventilated for a couple of

days and then the doctor started to

say there is something wrong here

and she was diagnosed a couple of

weeks later with a condition called

trisomy 13 and I don't like the term

fatal fatal abnormality because I

think it is dehumanising.

Told your

child had little chance of survival?

They told us when she was in

intensive care that around 90% of

these little ones wouldn't make it

to their first birthday but because

she was treated like every other

child at that time because medical

intervention was given to her we all

wanted to continue with that.

I do

any decision to make at that stage?

We could have withdrawn treatment

from Kathleen, because of her

disabilities that was a decision

that was given to us.

Our world is

your daughter now?

She is about to

celebrate her 11th birthday so we

are delighted with that. I spent a

lot of time in special needs schools

and I am concerned what is happening

across in London. I am concerned

about the impact it has on how we

value children and...

What would you

say to women who decide to have an

abortion?

In that particular case?

Where they are told by medical

professional, they fiddle

abnormality, no chance of survival.

There is a huge amount of work to be

done in terms of improving -- fatal

fatal abnormality. They are given

the news that, at that moment about

Mrs Dill child is already alive and

kicking in the womb. Support systems

in place, most people are very

happy.

I think it is a societal

issue sold society should have the

final choice on how we decide this.

I think we should have a referendum,

they should be a simple yes or no,

it should we bring in 1967 Abortion

Act?

How do you feel that a man

should not have as much of a

decision? Why should the father do

you think a father should have the

same 50-50 decision making or

because the mother is carrying the

baby that is what dominates?

It is a

strong moral question, if she has

that a child, the man can walk away

at any stage. Definitely his views

should be taken into account.

How

can a man walk away at any stage? A

mother can equally walk away.

But

during the pregnancy -- not during

pregnancy. Most women and their

maternal instinct...

What about the

paternal instinct from a father?

I

understand but I don't think the

father has the same rights as the

mother because he doesn't have to

carry the child.

Go ahead.

These are

the similar conversations to the

political parties in Northern

Ireland whether you are either

pro-abortion or pro-life but is

anyone actually pro-choice and stop

deciding when it is OK and deciding

individual women should decide for

themselves.

White should an

individual woman decide for

yourself?

But we are dealing with is

society here, not just one

individual, dealing with society and

what we want to do is preserved life

in our society. Once we go down the

road as Britain did 50 years ago,

once we go down the road of making

exceptions and having abortions,

initially the Abortion Act was

considered just for a few special

cases. We now discover that 8

million a Bees have been aborted --

babies. In Britain in the last 50

years. That diminishes life and we

have to celebrate life.

No matter

what?

Yes. I think we have got to

build...

So a 14-year-old child is

sexually abused or raped and against

her will she will be forced through

a pregnancy?

We have to support

people in such crisis circumstances.

Going back to the law...

You talk

about support law, if that someone

in their own person, you don't know

them, and they know themselves and

their family know them, and let's

take the instance of rape, you force

them to go through with the

pregnancy.

What we are saying...

But

our arms around those people, that

is what we do.

In terms of the

law,...

Bad cases make bad law. That

is what is this happening. Arguments

here are in the extremes. Once you

open up the abortion law here in

Northern Ireland much wider than it

is at this moment in time, you

create a situation with abortion on

demand.

Can I just say... It is not

a black and white issue. I have to

say tonight there are people in the

audience tonight who are going

through hell on earth and I would

rather their language was calmed

down on this. I had a medical

termination, that was it done and

dusted.

That was a miscarriage. You

have been on air before...

The

pregnancy was continuing on even

though the heartbeat had just gone.

I think this is very dangerous. Is

it not dangerous you telling a woman

what happened to her was Mike do you

not think she might know what

happened?

Can I just say, we need to

come this back down again. We are

talking about women and Stephen has

given the example there are about a

teenager who has gone through a

terrible situation like rape or

incest. We know saying that girl

doesn't have any human rights?

Because in Northern Ireland today

she doesn't. We are saying we will

send you to England and let them

deal with our problems. We are

ignoring women and young people who

are getting pregnant perhaps through

no fault of their own, they are

being pregnant and told that their

child doesn't have enough body parts

to survive.

They are being ignored.

We should not go down the path of

the other countries. The Abortion

Act came before I was born. They had

no impact -- no idea the impact it

would have. 90% of Down's syndrome

babies aborted. What does that say

about this ability is?

Just trust

woman.

That is a ridiculous...

APPLAUSE

Both sides are important.

But lives

matter. Those statistics are

staggering. Let's listen. I would

add the question of the Human Rights

Commission. It is an extreme...

It

is not an extreme pole. It is an

issue for society decide.

We can see

the baby now.

We didn't have that...

The United nation 's Human Rights

Commission says we have voted on

this in a referendum. What this

setback to the Irish government

every time if it is the tyranny of

the majority. When a woman has human

rights that are defined in

international human rights law, just

because, even if it is one woman and

the rest of society says no you

can't have your human rights, that

is called tender tyranny of the

majority.

Every single person...

The

emotive language of saying babies

are being killed. The vast

majority...

I speak up. I have a

women and I want the best for them.

That is great. I think every woman

wants the best for their children.

Think of the pressure women are

under the law is so liberal, the men

who phoned and book the abortions.

Let's go to the audience.

I would

like to say that those who say they

are petitioning for the right to

life, what about the right of the

mother's like with the person

carrying the baby's like?

Cherish

both.

They shouldn't have to carry a

baby to term because of the fact

they got pregnant. If there is a

case where your organ could save

someone, you don't have to give up

your right to your life as it

currently is, to save someone else's

that you do not know. Yet it is

their pregnancy but that doesn't

mean that they have to give up their

life or change their life just to

support that.

Mrs White, the very

thing you have heard tonight, you

risk is updated thinking that people

go through before they have the

abortion, the deep thinking they go

through in their personal

circumstances, suffering?

Is the

fact that most abortions are bumpers

of the reasons? Where'd you get that

from? Is common knowledge. Many

studies throughout the United

Kingdom. The majority, even in

Northern Ireland, of abortions are

done for social reasons.

What do you

mean by social reasons?

You mention

yourself, poverty. You think that

there's a reason for abortion.

That

is a reason for a woman to decide

what is best for her and quite often

for her children that are living,

quite often for her ability to go

out and earn money to keep those

children. Women make the best they

can all the time, and they are

usually doing the best I can for

other people, children and partners.

They don't make the decisions to

have abortions.

Do you not think for

those families that go through IVF

or they struggled to have a child

for many years, that when you talk

about money being a determining

factor as to whether a life occurs

or not, is that not cheapening value

of like?

I would love to see some of

these pro-life people campaigning on

child poverty and homelessness.

It

is actually the pro-life

organisations their day in day out

to help people.

Go ahead.

From what

a lot of the saying it is coming

across that you think if they change

the abortion law that all of a

sudden abortion is going to be the

main form of contraception. That

obviously won't happen. A lot of

women are pro-choice but it doesn't

mean they are pro-abortion. A lot of

them have an abortion because it is

the last resort. There are other

types of contraception. All of a

sudden the law changes it doesn't

mean that will be the go to. We need

more education around things like

different types of contraception.

That comes from the fact that they

don't have a lot of sex education in

Northern Ireland and it probably

comes from exactly what Mrs White

said about the religious views and

we have so many...

She is entitled

to her religious view and you

shouldn't be mocked for it. There

are a lot of people who live their

life on religious view in this

country.

Sex education in schools is

actually the propaganda arm of the

sexual revolution. It is giving

children, telling children they have

the right to a sex life. Children 11

and 12 and 13-year-olds are being

told through sex education they have

a right to a sex life.

What has that

got to do with abortion?

It leads to

the demand for abortion, all these

teenage pregnancies. It can be

traced to sex education.

One last

comment. Very quickly. Yes, you.

This is for Katie, I am disgusted

that she said that, that the man has

so choice.

I didn't say the man has

no choice. No voice. In my opinion,

and I think everyone around this

table is entitled to the opinion, I

just wouldn't push my opinion, I

think the man's view should be noted

and if he is a loving partner the

man's view...

Noted? OK.

Go on.

I

just think it is a disgusting thing

to say, that the man does not have a

voice and doesn't have a choice.

Ultimately it is the woman that has

to go through the pregnancy and the

birth and unless you are a woman who

has been through a pregnancy, you

don't know what it feels like to be

pregnant.

You don't know what to

feel sick to be a father.

Of course

not, but the woman is the one who

has emotionally and physically

consumed by being pregnant, either

positively when it is a happy equity

or negatively when it is a crisis.

Do men not have emotions? I'm not

saying they don't but...

Many crisis

pregnancy is the father is not

there.

I wish we had more time with

this but thank you all very much.

Give them a round of applause.

In a moment, Northern Ireland

striker Kyle Lafferty

is in the studio to talk to us

about his gambling addiction.

But first, have a listen to this.

Derry girl Rachel O'Connor made

a huge splash on The Voice

a couple of years ago.

#

From so far away ...

#.

Since then, she's had

a cheerleader in Kylie Minogue.

Here singing her new single,

Done With Your Love,

Rachel O'Connor.

# I don't know where I'm going,

I only know where I've been.

# And if I had a dollar

for every fight we've

# I'd have made all my millions

by the end of my teens.

# Instead of settling down I'd

be living the dream.

# I know what you're thinking,

I can tell by your eyes.

# I need someone to save me and I'm

too young to decide.

# But I'm on a roll,

so don't waste your time.

# I don't need your blessings,

I'm sure I'll be fine.

# I, I, I,

# Wanna have fun, fun, fun

# To the beat of my

drum, drum, drum.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love.

# You, you, you

# Gotta move on, on, on.

# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love.

# You say I can't live without

you no matter how hard I try.

# That I'm too loud around

you and I should be more polite.

# But when you look in the mirror

and not by your side,

# Only you'll be the one that's

keeping you up at night.

# When I'm good as gone,

you'll be calling my name.

# Saying baby where are you,

you know it's getting late.

# But I'm on a roll,

so don't waste your breath.

# I'm out of control

and I got no regrets.

# I, I, I,

# Wanna have fun, fun, fun

# To the beat of my

drum, drum, drum.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love.

# You, you, you

# Gotta move on, on, on.

# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love.

# I got the beauty and

the brains, brains, brains.

# But you tell me I should

change, change, change.

# I got the beauty and

the brains, brains, brains.

# I'm done with your love.

# I got the beauty and

the brains, brains, brains.

# But you tell me I should

change, change, change.

# I got the beauty and

the brains, brains, brains.

# I'm done with your love.

# I, I, I,

# Wanna have fun, fun, fun

# To the beat of my

drum, drum, drum.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love.

# You, you, you

# Gotta move on, on, on.

# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love.

# I, I, I,

# Wanna have fun, fun, fun

# To the beat of my

drum, drum, drum.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love.

# You, you, you

# Gotta move on, on, on.

# Cos baby I'm done, done, done.

# I'm done with your love,

I'm done with your love #.

APPLAUSE

Great stuff. Let's get into our next

debate tonight.

It's been revealed that

Northern Ireland has the biggest

proportion of problem gamblers

in the whole of the UK,

where more than two million people

are either problem gamblers

or at risk of addiction.

With us is to discuss

is Northern Ireland

footballer Kyle Lafferty,

who himself has struggled

with a serious gambling addiction.

Let's welcome Kyle to the show

tonight.

APPLAUSE

And our second highest goal scorer

of all-time, sir. Congratulations.

Listen, let's... Thank you for

coming over and talking to us about

this, I know it's personal. When it

was really bad, what does it feel

like when you're trapped in this

addiction?

Lonely. Everything seems

to go against you. I think it's a

place that I've been and I don't

think anyone has a chance to get out

of there, get out as quick as

possible. There is help everywhere.

Everywhere you look you can get

help. I was too embarrassed to get

help because of what I've done and

who I was.

Where were you losing it,

on the horses, in the bookies, where

was it? Football. When you could bet

on football I was betting on

cumulators and stuff like that. Then

you couldn't bet on football.

Obviously, me liking, enjoying a

bet, it was just wanting to bet on

something. I took up horseracing,

which I knew nothing about it. I

went for the colour of the jersey,

the name of the horse. Everything.

Are we aubg talking big money here

in a bet?

Yeah, big enough.

Obviously, at this stage I was

earning decent money for my age. I

didn't really have the concept of

money. I didn't really respect it

and...

Look, I'm not going to go

into this in detail. It's your

personal life, but, you know, we are

talking here some bets £100,000 or

big, big amounts of money?

Obviously, it all depends if I was

winning or losing. If I kept on

losing, the next race, the next dog,

the bet would double. It was always

difficult when you're losing you

want to win that money back. Win it

back in the next race. Sometimes it

wasn't always the case.

Help me

understand why you don't stop

because common sense tells you that

you're going to lose big in the long

run?

Yeah, of course. I think -

Why

don't you stop when it hurts so bad

and you feel like crap?

It's

difficult because you know what

you're going to win one race. If

you've enough on, it it's going to

cover the last ten bets that you

lost on.

Was it affecting your mood?

Was it affecting how you got on with

people around you?

Not really. I'm

one of those bubbly people that

enjoys a joke, a bit of banter. But

a lot of people asked me if it

affected my football. I don't think

it has. I think on the football

pitch was probably the place I

enjoyed the most.

Did you tell

anybody?

I think people, my

team-mates, people close to me knew

I liked a bet, but how severe it

was, I think it's only really my

wife now that has really understood

how bad it was. Obviously, having

her by my side is one of the reasons

why I've come out, having someone

like that beside me. It means it's

slightly easier.

What was the lowest

point, Kyle?

Um... I don't really

have one point that stands out, but

I remember one Sunday afternoon I

was... I went out for lunch with

some of my team-mates and I came

back after, in the house by myself,

the horseracing was on, Sunday

afternoon, I just kept on betting

and betting and betting and I wasn't

winning. Days before I won quite a

bit of money. I managed to blow

that, spent a bit of my own money I

was down to the last two races and I

proper lumped on. Lucky for me, I

won all my money back. I think I

might have been down £2,000 overall.

That was probably my lowest part.

Lowest point in me betting because I

won so much money, managed to blow

it, then I went into my own bank

account and spent a lot of it.

Luckily for me, as I said, I won

most of it back.

I guess the

majority of people can go and gamble

and it's fun, it's a hobby and they

think there are too many draconia

rules being proposed around

gambling?

Yeah, there is. I think

people can go and enjoy a bet, but

two or three years ago I spoke to my

wife I said I had a problem.

How

hard was that sitting down telling

her for the first time?

It was quite

easy because she understood me and I

understood her. If I came to herred

and told her the truth, I knew she'd

be there. If I was going to keep

things from her, gamble behind her

back, that is when things get

difficult. Luckily, I've got her by

my side and I'm thankful for her,

but...

Are you like an alcoholic or

other people with addictions, are

you afraid you might go back there

again? Are you afraid to touch it?

I've been off - I've took periods of

time over the last maybe two years.

I might have lost a sum of money and

then I said to myself, I'm stopping.

I went six to eight weeks or ten

weeks when I hadn't had a bet.

Something clicks inside me. Maybe

come home from training, nip into

the bookies I lose and I lose. I'm

going home and I'm on my phone. From

the second that you open your phone

to get on to an online app it takes

10, 15 second you could have a bet

placed within a minute. So it's...

It's very easy to bet.

What do you

think about the advertising of

gambling around football matches.

You know, you can't watch a football

match. You can hardly watch

late-night TV any more without ads

prompting you to gamble?

Yeah, it's

everywhere. They name football

trophies after it William Hill Cup.

It's everywhere. When I'm watching

football, half time it pops up, 4-1,

3-1. Everywhere you look it's there.

It's so easy to place a bet now. So

it's a difficult time to be in.

Peter Keogh, you are with us

tonight. Hi, Peter.

Hi, Stephen.

Thank you for coming in.

You lost

your son four years ago? Four years

ago coming up on the 1st November.

Through gambling?

Through gambling.

Utterly through gambling. If I could

just go back, something Kyle said,

hello Kyle, I haven't seen you for a

long time, we're both from North

Fermanagh, that is where he started

his football. Lewis took his own

life four years ago coming up the

1st November, and it was purely as a

result of his addiction to gambling

that he realised he couldn't do

anything about. You asked Kyle a

question about, could you just not

walk away from the gambling, can you

just not stop it. It's like all the

other great addictions, alcohol,

cigarettes, cocaine, like all the

drugs. Since Lewis died, Sadie, my

wife and I, have done research into

gambling, the one bit of research

that sticks in my mind all the time

is one that was done in Barclay

University in California. They wired

up a drug addict, a heroin addict

and a gambling addict. They got them

to do the things they like best.

Have a gamble, have a fix. The hit

they got gave the same reactions. To

say you can stop gambling is like

saying to a heroin addict, stop

tomorrow, you will be all right.

When your son Lewis died he had reo

mortgaged his home.

Yes.

He had tens

of thousands of pounds of debt?

Yep.

What was his gambling on?

His

apartment was in Leeds near

Headingley. When you looked out of

his kitchen window at night you

could see the lights of the local

casino. We found after he died, I

mean, we were in contact on a very

regular basis with him. You can't

get inside a person's head on the

phone. He was a huge sportsman, he

would have talked about it. Life and

sport and whatever else. But he was

good at hiding his, I suppose he had

a guilt about it.

Yeah.

But, at the

end, he was doing it all on the

internet. You know.

The internet is

very interesting territory, isn't

it? Some of the land based

bookmakers will say that, look,

while they are getting a lot of

pressure and a lot of criticism

about these fixed odd terminals, you

know, they would argue that people

can - there at least some controls

in those land based bookmakers and

you can see what people are betting

on. Whereas on the internet, there

are supposed to be control, but is

there?

No.

With peep their bedrooms,

you know, as much money as they

have, they can gamble. Let us talk

to Paddy Power tonight who is

joining us down-the-line.

Paddy, do you think the internet is

a dangerous place for people who are

out of control?

For somebody who was

out of control, yes. But the one

thing you could say about online

gambling is that it does give you

more potential to control your own

actions because every bookmaker

online, I can only speak for Paddy

Power, they do offer this, deposit

limits on yourself when you open

your account or setting loss limits,

excluding yourself from some games.

Kyle talked about excluding yourself

over the weekend...

Obviously a

gambling addict is probably not at

the start going to restrict the

amount they are going to lose

because they always think they will

eventually win, so here is the

question. When a company like yours

or any other gambling company online

sees people blowing thousands of

pounds in an hour or a couple of

hours, do you ask them if they are

all right or intervene?

We do,

positive intervention. We have

modelling built now which can

predict people's behaviour and when

that becomes erratic we can

intervene and contact. It is up to

the person themselves ultimately...

So it is not the industry's

responsibility to intervene and say

you are OK?

It is not to diagnose a

problem, but we contact you and say

your behaviour suggests you may have

an issue, you sure you're

comfortable?

Just so people can be

confident that you actually mean

that, if there is anybody that can

demonstrate watching this programme

tonight that they are blowing

thousands of pounds and you haven't

intervened, would you give their

money back?

It depends on their

behaviour, it is not the amount of

money, but the erratic this.

If

someone has blown ten grand in a

night and they have just joined and

you know nothing about them, would

you give their money back if you

haven't intervened? The proof is in

the pudding.

We know something about

them because we have to do lots of

checks with sources of funds.

No you

don't. You have 48 hours to do it,

that is not true. You did not to

start checking before they start

gambling. We check all our

customers.

Afterwards. It takes

about 24 hours to come through, that

is true.

The first 24 hours if

someone loses their shirt?

They can

bet as they want when they open

their account, they have the

opportunity to set limits and how

much they want to state. With sports

betting there will be limits on each

sport and category and how much we

allow someone to bet and then we get

to know our customers a bit better

through behaviour and then we can

develop a stronger relationship.

The

fixed stall terminals when people

walking their and our betting 50

quid or 100 quid stakes, to the shop

owners, London Tabeen and stop them

and say you are OK or can someone to

win and bet to their hearts content?

It is funny you should bring it up

because we are waiting the result of

the review of the Government in

Westminster and we expect some sort

of reduction in the maximum stakes

on fixed odds betting terminals. We

have suggested that the stake is

reduced to ten quid but it is quite

a hot topic at the moment as I am

sure you are aware. With those fixed

odds betting terminals there are

cooling off limits where you can

play for a certain amount of time

and you realise you have been

playing first a certain amount of

time...

And you hit the button and

three seconds later you are gambling

again, but is a real deterrent isn't

it? That is what you are saying is a

protection?

I will ask you, what you

need to do is to empower people to

take control of their own actions.

Imagine saying: alcoholic there is a

drink right in front of you, don't

worry we are being responsible, in

three seconds you can dig a drink,

do you really wanted? Imagine a

drink, in three seconds...

It is a

very emotive images are putting at

third but also why don't you

mentioned that not every single

person sitting in that pub is an

alcoholic. A lot of people out there

having a drink. Do you not serve a

drink to anyone because of one

alcoholic? You have measures in

place which can hurt the people who

are vulnerable and those who do

develop problem but the reality is a

lot of people don't develop problem

with gambling and I 100% agree. I am

not trying to argue against the

existence of gambling initiatives,

it is one of the most difficult

addictions and it is difficult, you

see from the stories. As an operator

and provider of betting services our

job is to offer an environment that

is as responsible as can be but

still allow people to have a bet.

That is why we have you here tonight

because you enjoy it, Harry, if you

lose money you plummet into July.

I

understand the analogy -- planet

into your life. The problem is with

the fixed odds betting terminals,

nobody wins.

That is not true, is

it? Those terminals, nobody wins.

Explain to me how you enjoy losing

money.

I don't, I enjoy winning

money. That is one of the things

about gambling, if they are going to

gamble they have to see it is trying

to win and not just gambled. I don't

understand why anyone would ever

play fixed odds betting terminals

anyway, you have the red on the

black so the factor is agreement

there you will be slightly odds

against so you are doing wrong thing

by having a bet in the first place

but on a fixed odds betting terminal

have you know it is straight? At

least an old-fashioned casinos you

have a table in tragedy, who knows

what goes on.

Help me with your

mindset.

It is a bad sports betting,

nothing wrong with that. There are

not bad things going on with this

fixed odds betting terminals but

what we don't talk about, Paddy

won't tell you just how big people

are playing on them and how big the

profits are other companies in

London. It is nearly all the

machines. They don't get money out

of purses or sport come to dissolve

the machines. Oche horses or sport.

The it is adults making decisions

for themselves with their money and

the vast majority are choosing to do

so and are in control.

In 34 years

if you want them bet on red or black

in the casino you have the power

member and it takes 24 hours.

Nowadays you need is a credit card

number. The woman who lost the sun,

when you talk about comparing

addictions, gambling is worse than

any of them. When he said earlier on

his mood is not affected by his

losses and it doesn't affect how he

plays the ball, I tell you it does.

Gambling affects everything. Even if

you are a successful gambler, how

you beloved lunch gambling is a

serious business.

I deeply

appreciate you coming on because I

know you don't have to, so thank you

for doing this, Paddy, I hope the

industry does become as responsible

as it possibly can.

It is not about

a responsible, it is about

educating. People get educated.

It

is too black and white. Let me say

to you, thank you for sharing your

personal story and to you, I am

sorry what happened to your son and

I know you are fighting. Thank you

very much. Give our guests a round

of applause.

APPLAUSE

It is the time I have been dreading.

The Wednesday Weigh-in at the

production team is so excited about.

I haven't really started.

They have made a nice little

graphics about this. I'm getting

tortured by the team. They said had

he done this? And be done that? I

say no. They say have you been good?

I say no. Where were you last night?

A Chinese restaurant on the

Newtownards Road. Where was I at 12

o'clock last night. I had

McDonald's. This thing has been a

disaster. An absolute disaster. But

it says here in the autocue I should

say a really big thank you to

everyone who has been in touch to

support me on Facebook and Twitter.

You have been telling me your

stories and offering lots of advice

which I have been completely

ignoring and this man here has been

forced into the studio. Give Andy

Ward a round of applause.

APPLAUSE

Good to see you. Andy is the

personal trainer who I am completely

and utterly ignoring. That is the

bottom line. I will get up on the

scales here. I've eaten slightly

less than I had last week. I was 21

point five. You were 21.9.

21.4.

21.4!

APPLAUSE

I don't know why we were applauding.

It could have been better.

I know

how I did it. Before the show I went

for a to. I promise I'm going to

start.

This is your personal tracker

for everyone in your production team

will stop this will go on your

wrist. I would love to put on your

ankle.

I will take that off and give

it to Lafferty.

Everybody is

witnessing this. It is going to

monitor everything you do, sleeping.

Hopefully not everything I do! For

everyone who decides to join us in

the bigot by it and the country and

their own fitness plan, -- this

fitness plan. It is not too late to

tell us how much weight you have

lost this week we will be taking a

running total, here is how you can

get in touch.

This show is about to get even more

farcical because the centre of the

universe by Halloween and dress up

as apparently Londonderry. It has

been voted the best place in the

world to sorbitol wean by

It's been voted the best place

in the world to celebrate Hallowe'en

to celebrate Hallowe'en

by USA Today and last night

they even had a Hallowe'en parade

for the city's dogs up there.

Have a look at this.

wonderful. Someone had the great

idea. As Belfast Fashion Week starts

tomorrow...

Now, as Belfast Fashion Week starts

tomorrow, we thought it would be

timely to bring back a few Derry

dogs, and who better to talk us

through their spooky outfits

than this stylish lady.

Here we go. We're running out of

time.

First up is Boomer. And

Catherine is dressed as a skeleton.

That is the biggest skills than I

have ever seen, I will tell you.

Boomer lost to chase birds and he

still check in from the table. This

is Alison the medieval witch and

Bobby. Here is Captain America. And

Jock the Jack Russell.

But that

this!

This is Rosco and the zombie

bride is Kira. She is the mummy.

Beautiful.

Here is the baby lions

coming.

Here we go. The two which is

our Cristina and Eimear. A, come on.

-- Emma. There is the way pug.

Get

yourself over there. We have one

additional late entry, ladies and

gentlemen. We have a skateboarding

dog!

Steven, it has got your face on

it. It was the image of you.

There

she goes, but! -- look.

The same

amount of chin.

Ladies and

gentlemen, thank you so much for

joining us for this quite farcical

end to the show tonight. Have our

pets all round of applause. Thank

you for watching everybody. See you

next Wednesday.

APPLAUSE