Episode 6 Nolan Live

On the show republicans kill again. How should

we respond? A sugar tax, how sweet is that? Music from level 40 two.

And this live studio audience. -- Level 42.

APPLAUSE Good evening. Thank you for joining

us. Have a look at this man. His name is Adrian. He was 52 and a dad

of three children. He was a prison officer and he died yesterday, 11

days after being involved in a officer and he died yesterday, 11

dissident car bomb attack. The Northern Ireland prison service said

his family are devastated and beyond shocked

his family are devastated and beyond us to talk

his family are devastated and beyond together. How should we, as a

society, respond to the dissidents? A Republican Sinn Fein president is

here tonight. Let me start with you. I am just wondering what it

achieves, a man, that man, let's personalise him, dying. I am

wondering how that gets closer to any goal? Absolutely. Any death is a

tragedy -- tragedy. It diminishes society itself. What we need to do,

it makes it all the more incumbent on those of us engaged in politics

to create the context and create the basis for moving that cycle. We have

had that in the country for the last 40 years. We need to look at the

root causes so that they are addressed once and for all. You

would have no difficulty in saying to people who did that, to the

dissidents who did that, that gets you know closer to any political

goal? What I am saying is, we have a cycle, unfortunately, in this

country. Over the last 90 years we have had five agreements and not had

a settlement. There has not been a full, final, lasting just

settlement. -- and just settlement. I have not talked about any death.

There is a specific man, a father and husband, who has lost his life.

I able to say to people that killed him, it has not got them any closer

to their political goal. As I said at the outset, Stephen, every debt,

every single loss of life is a tragedy. I am not going to shout at

you tonight all be aggressive but I want you to listen to the question.

Do you think a death like that achieves any kind of proximity to a

united Ireland? Any death diminishes, including the death of

this particular man. It diminishes all of us as human beings, as a

society. My question is focused. The people who did that think they may

be doing it in the name of achieving a united Ireland. I am sitting,

trying to stretch my imagination to a point of understanding how it

does. Can you say to those people tonight, or not, that that man's

death gets them any closer to a united Ireland? It does not, does

it? Any death we have suffered over the last decades, none of them lead

us any further anywhere. What we need, and this is what I am

saying... Why kill? We need to look at the political context. It is not

a context. As long as that remains the case, the cycle is not being

broken. There is no context, the man is being dead -- is dead. There have

been many deaths. Each and every one of them is a tragedy, tragedy for

the families and the community and society. What I am saying is we can

reduce it. That is by. Ultimately they are all individuals coming

human beings. What we need to do is look at the round, otherwise we're

back into this kind of politics of condemnation. That does not lead us

anywhere. Any to deal with the issues and create a context where we

can finally break that cycle and move us forward to the kind of

lasting and just settlement for all the people of Ireland. Sometimes on

a show like this I would ask a question ten, 15, 20 times. Do you

condemn his death? I'm not here to condone or condemn. I am not here to

speak on behalf... I'm here to make a political analysis on what is

happening in terms of the situation. I lied to you. I will ask you one

more time, do you condemn the death? I am neither here to condone or

condemn. It does not lead us any further down the road. We need to

deal with the situation, the kind of issues that lie at the cause of

conflict in our country, which leads to the kind of tragedies we have had

witnessed, including this latest one. Until we arrive at point,

unfortunately... Do you just write off on people who would support file

on this? Do you just write off murders as some kind of collateral

damage? The heartbreak that there is. That human reaction, that human

motion that the majority of us have. It is repulsing what happened to

that man. Is he collateral damage? Certainly not. All deaths are a

tragedy. Any rational being wants to see an end to violence in our

society. The Irish people can also choose of the Irish people, have

suffered enough of that what I am saying, and Ira Peter to game, we

need to break that cycle. There has been a cycle in Irish history, to

break the cycle by addressing the root causes of the conflict. The

root causes of the conflict in our country are British occupation of

part of the country until we reach a point where the issues are being

addressed in a realistic manner and not ignoring damn. The option this

country has... I am listening to you very calmly. The logic behind people

like you and others, and I am not suggesting you are responsible for

this man's death but you will not condemn it. The logic is that all of

these people who voted for the Good Friday Agreement, unless all of

these people who voted that it would be a democratic way forward, that

would determine the status of Northern Ireland, Ireland, call it

what you will. Actually, the people who are the dissidents and people

like you, your logic is, you break the cycle by giving us a united

Ireland and that is it. It is about giving the Irish people these same

right that is inherent to all nations, the right to determine

their future as a unit. That has been denied them. It was denied them

in 1998 and continually since then. Paul... I do not know how anybody

can sit here and not condemn taking the lives of Adrian Ismay. If you

are not in a position to condemn that death, you are not in a

position to be part of the future of Northern Ireland. That is how we, as

a society, have to deal with the people that are responsible for

this. Our community must unite and condemn, without question, the

murder of Adrian Ismay. He put on a uniform to defend everybody in

Northern Ireland, not Protestants not Catholics, but all of us. He

worked to reform people and make this place a better place. They are

not in a position to condemn his death. I think that is a despicable

place for you to be in and you should be ashamed of that. The death

of any person, be it Adrian Ismay or anybody else, is a tragedy. It is a

tragedy for everyone concerned. All of these deaths, that is the tragedy

of our nation and our country that has been enjoyed. -- end George will

stop there is a cycle that have to be broken. We all want to see an end

to this kind of conflict in our country. We want a brighter future

for all sections of the Irish people. What do we do about the

dissidents? What do we do? There is not much we can do. You are in a

very weak position tonight. You represent a very small number of

people. You say we need a settlement on the issues of

people. You say we need a settlement British occupation, as you call it.

people. You say we need a settlement There was a settlement in 98,

people. You say we need a settlement You are in this tiny group of

people, this tiny bit of thought that says, we understand the proper

destiny of that says, we understand the proper

anyone else. That that says, we understand the proper

other thing is, I have forgotten. that says, we understand the proper

is so appalling. You are using the same language now that Gerry

is so appalling. You are using the and Martin McGuinness were using,

round about and Martin McGuinness were using,

logic did impress the people in that country at that time and they went

with country at that time and they went

They eventually came round to saying country at that time and they went

there is a settlement needed, a cannot be a compromise. You are

saying a united Ireland or nothing. It is worth while allowing people,

endorsing people, carrying out murder to promote that when they

have no prospect of actually achieving it.

That is one of the primary conditions. There is no

That is one of the primary success. Do you accept that? First

of all, I'm not to promote or defend armed action by any group or

organisation. If the IDF had shot a Republican, you would be condemning

that. You would not condemn anything? The politics of

condemnation in the past did not get us anywhere. Regarding democracy of

this, what we had in 1998 was two votes in two different states.

The late Mo Mowlam let the cat out of the bag before the referendum

when she said that the vote that would count would the one that will

take place here in the six counties. I want to bring in Raymond McCartney

who is in our Foyle studio. What would you say to people like Des

Dalton? I want to send out the strong message that what happened to

Adrian Ismay was wrong. Yesterday, when we heard that he had died, I

think what we have to say to people is that we should stop and then the

challenge for people like Des is simple. He has to accept that there

is no issue in terms of the political institutions programmes in

front of us, which cannot be resolved by peaceful and democratic

means. But they seem not saying now what you said 20 years ago, and

people like you, and Martin McGuinness who is now helping to

lead this country? Why should they not sit back and think to

themselves, this is exactly what Sinn Fein was saying years ago? In

1998 there was an historic negotiation which everyone with a

mandate on the island of Ireland sat round the table, we sat down with

the British government and come up with a political framework which

would allow everyone, without prejudice and precondition to

determine how we would go forward. But until there was a political game

that you agreed with, you shared the philosophy of people like Des. When

you say "Until", but was a realisation that there was a

stalemate, when the British government in particular knew that

there had to be a political negotiation and in that, there would

be a political framework. That allowed everyone, politically, to

pursue their objectives by peaceful and democratic means. That is when

the compromise was made. And we saw the mandate to go forward and in

increasing numbers across the island, that has been endorsed by

people who would call themselves either Republican or Nationalist. I

am trying to get my head around it, you tell me, you are sitting in your

living room now, and this is what well-placed Celsius have told the

BBC, -- that some of the dissident prisoners celebrated by smoking

cigars to celebrate the death of a father. What an earth is the

mindset? How on earth do you start talking to people like that? What

kind of human being does that? Can you attribute a descriptor to human

beings who celebrate the death of a father, man and husband? Subhuman.

That is what it is for those individuals to celebrate the death

of Adrian. I spoke to a prison officers who was working there who

witnessed that. He witnessed that. What did he say? He said,

individuals smoking cigars, singing party tunes, is what was happening.

Goading prison officer is about the death of a dream. As they did the

death of David Black. -- of Adrian. I find it disgusting that

individuals would do that. And there is no justification both now for the

death of Adrian and his killing and there is no justification whenever

Raymond McCartney and Sinn Fein was supporting the Provisional IRA.

There is no justification for the taking of life in the pursuit of

political aims. I have to explain to you all at home, usually we have

lots of the audience wanting to talk about the debates. We don't have

that many tonight because part of what people do when they instil fear

in people in the community, there is a man who wants to speak to us. Go

ahead. I would like to speak to the member from Republican Sinn Fein.

Des Dalton. You will not condemn the killing because you want the cycle

to break. Because you want a 32- County Ireland, but there are lots

of people from the unionist background who don't want to end

this, we want partition to remain. Do we not -- do we need to be dealt

with like Adrian Ismay N order to break the cycle, so? -- in order to.

Absolutely not. Republicans and Republican Sinn Fein were very

mindful and conscious of that. That is why, for instance, the proposals

contained in the document for a new Ireland which were formulated the

early 1970s, and the talks in 1974 with representatives of unionism...

You're reminiscing. Answer the question. The Republicans are

conscious of the need that all sections of the Irish people are

owners of that Irish nation and need to be part of building that new

Ireland. They need to be part of that conversation, that process, an

essential part, and not frozen out of it as they were to a large

degree, in many of the various agreements that were put in place

over the last 20 years. As I understand it, you said you could

not condemn the killing of this man, this father, there's husband,

because of this cycle. I am wondering if a lot of unionists, who

really want to keep Northern Ireland, I would come from that

background myself, I defend the Good Friday agreement and I am glad to

see Sinn Fein in government, they have a mandate to be there, but I'm

rather scared when people start killing people who they perceive as

standing in the way of them getting their 32- County Ireland, that they

are next. That is what worries me. Perhaps, maybe, if you tried it at

the ballot box, to see if you got Perhaps, maybe, if you tried it at

mandate, then you would have as much right as anybody else to enter

Stormont or the Dail or anywhere, and then, perhaps through

Stormont or the Dail or anywhere, you can break the cycle. If we

Stormont or the Dail or anywhere, distance it from Des Dalton, can I

remind you that some distance it from Des Dalton, can I

you're trying to communicate with our the human beings. Paul called

them subhuman. Somebody on the radio this morning called them monsters.

Those people actually jump up and this morning called them monsters.

down and celebrate the death of this morning called them monsters.

human being. How can you communicate with them's how can you

human being. How can you communicate about democracy. Shakespeare said,

human being. How can you communicate if you pick me, will I not laugh?

They must be if you pick me, will I not laugh?

something happened to them or if you pick me, will I not laugh?

should go down that road and try and educate these people. We appreciate

your time this evening. Going back to how negotiations

your time this evening. Going back British government at some stage

started talking to British government at some stage

remember these dissidents are tiny, absolutely tiny. Let's not give them

any credibility beyond the tiny fraction of existence that they

any credibility beyond the tiny Can you see any situation

any credibility beyond the tiny people should reach out and try to

negotiate with them, speak to them? people should reach out and try to

Lo, first of all, Stephen, I don't know if Adrian Ismay's widow or

three children are watching this programme but my heart goes out to

that family, because the idea that we could be talking about dialogue

when Adrian was brutally murdered, and that is what we are put -- we

are talking about, the murder and that is what we are put -- we

very decent man who cannot be part of any dialogue now, because some

lunatics, totally deranged eagle, have taken it into their own hands

and killed him. -- people. Let me be very clear. Northern Ireland has

devolved politics. I am saying this very clear. Northern Ireland has

in London looking at that place that I have only admiration and love for.

And I absolutely condemn what has happened to him in the same way that

I really go through a day when I did remember, in 2009, learning that

Stephen Carroll had been murdered, and in the same way, it served no

purpose and should be treated for what it is, which is murder, and

achieve Constable is absolutely right to be conducting a murder

inquiry. -- the Chief Constable. So what do you do with these

dissidents? Yew tree them in the way that they should be treated, which

is that they are criminals. -- you treat them. You have law and order

in Northern Ireland, and nobody is above the law. People who wish to be

above the law must face the law, must face justice and they need to

go to prison and serve sentences for the crimes which they have

committed, which is nothing to do with politics. It is a brutal murder

of a decent man who served the community of Northern Ireland, and

tonight, the tragedy is that Sharon and three daughters are against all

at home, because some people thought that they were better than the law,

and they should face the law and they should base their crime and

they should go to prison. APPLAUSE

What would you, Des Dalton, say to Shaun Woodward? I would say that his

government's and estate's involvement in Ireland has been the

root cause of violence over many decades and centuries. Until it is

accepted that they don't have a positive, neutral role to play in

Ireland, can be then create a space within which we can address the

concerns of this gentleman RPO,... Until all sections of the Aries

people are allowed to express their view about the kind of Ireland that

we wish to live in, and that involve the dialogue of all sections,

Protestant, Catholic and the centre, everybody has to be involved in that

and that is an essential and integral part of this. You have to

hear that. Gerry Adams and others in time heard that. If you do not hear

that and don't understand that they are British and that they define

themselves as British, and that they have a right to, no matter if you

disagree, then you will never get any dialogue with them at all. There

is something that that is annoying me and that is the use of language

like subhuman and deranged. I don't think that is particularly helpful.

There was a danger in the political process that, by having, what the

dissidents are doing today and killing people like Adrian Ismay,

and trying to kill others, which is stupid, pointless and futile and

brutal exercise, is not different in character and nature from what was

done by the paramilitaries before the peace process. It is the same.

And there were instances, then, of people cheering that murder. So it

is not that different in any respect. But an example has been

set. An example was set with the peace process that we will talk, we

will deal with people, we can find common ground with them, we can take

the killer, the one that the previously called the range, and

treat them like a civilised all edition. -- politicians. What

happened is subhuman, it is beneath contempt. A normal human being does

not take the life of another and the pursuit of political objectives. And

I take issue with what you said, in that you need to have the prospect

of a successful outcome to have a just war. That does not justify

murder. It did not justify it in the past. I had a close family relative

of mine whose car was riddled with 13 bullets by the Provisional IRA

because he was a prison officer. I was one of the people he was most

adamant in standing against the Provisional IRA, inside republican

communities. I am trying to make an argument to Des that aside from

there for loss of these that he is dealing with, all of their theology,

there has to be some prospect in his own mind of success, and there

isn't. We need to have a recognition, and this is where I

want to get active tonight, because Adrian's wife has lost a husband,

her children have lost their father, and we have to bear in mind the

sacrifice that Adrian's father has made, and prison officers have made

for decades, and often I feel like they are the forgotten service. In

Northern Ireland, we have moved forward, people enjoy a relative

peace, but there are still a group of people in our community, prison

officer and police offers, who do not enjoy that same liberty that

others have. We need to stand in solidarity and show support for them

and collectively stand united against the ideology being espoused

by the Republican Sinn Fein, because it is an acceptable, and nobody

should countenance it. What is your message to the

dissidents? It is clear, that it should stop. But we are talking

about housing, education and health, the primary objective of

Republicans, it cannot be resolved by peaceful and democratic means.

The message has to go out very clearly that, since then, the Sinn

Fein mandate has increased because people are saying that what Sinn

Fein is doing is right and proper, providing leadership and direction.

We have not compromised in our hope and intention to bring this about by

peaceful and democratic means. I will leave it there. Give our guests

a round of applause. ) I think what we need to do, there is more

territory in that. We need to continue to discuss that. We tried

to give you lots of platforms on the BBC to do that. You can go to our

Twitter page and our Facebook page. It is a discussion we need to

continue to have. Now we will go into a more light-hearted item. Two

special guests have come off the stage of the grand Opera house.

Please welcome Jason Munford and filled Jupiters.

-- Phil Jupitus. I am in the mood for a laugh! How did they link into

us? What is it like? The car flies. You have seen the

us? What is it like? The car flies. I play the part of Dick Van

us? What is it like? The car flies. -- Trudie Scrumptious. Is the

Belfast crowd different from others? There is an energy about Belfast.

Absolutely. The first time I ever came here was about 1990. I got

Absolutely. The first time I ever taken to Lavery's. That got a laugh!

People came up and said, I had just one -- done one thing on television

they go, would you like a drink? I go, I have four here. I said, would

you like a drink question by the end of the evening I have a small

brewery lined up along the bar. They closed the pub and I had to abandon

all these pipes. It is a very weird evening. I remember playing the

Empire when I was on the circuit. That was an odd feeling to come

Empire when I was on the circuit. and... It depends how you pitch it

gags. I did a gig two years ago, the Friendship Festival, the Peace

Festival. I had to come back from Afghanistan. It was interesting. I

thought, this will be a fun story about my time in Afghanistan. I have

thought, this will be a fun story said, I did some gigs in

Afghanistan. In England you get an immediate round of applause. I

Afghanistan. In England you get an booed. Did they do you? In a panto,

jolly way. It was what was expected. I was going, the Taliban won't stop

at the water, folks. I remember getting heckled by a guy at the

waterfront. I am sure this is a typical Belfast thing that I had

never heard it before. We had gone to the Titanic exhibition. It was

great fun. On the stage that night, I thought, I would take the Mickey

out of the Titanic and have a bit of fun. Most people went along with it.

I have a picture of both of you at the Titanic. That is us. What is

that? Just getting into the vibe of the Titanic. He would not call me

jack all day. I do draw him like a Frenchwoman. I was taking the Mickey

out of it and having a bit of fun. The guys said, leave the Titanic

alone. He was genuinely angry about it. I said, I am not having a go but

what you built was not great, was it? Probably not the best thing to

say. If you told me to name one of the worst ships, it would be up

there. I was digging a hole. He said, it was all right when it left

here. I had never heard that before but it was a brilliant heckle. We

both know you from the television. That is completely different from

being on the road, being on the heck it -- on the circuit. We are in

theatre now and it is different rules. I have been told to have lost

a stone and a half. I knew I needed to lose weight. You know you need to

say, my hand was getting too fat to fit into a Pringles tube. I've

thought, sort this! When you are out of breath after your dinner and

stuff like that. I need to sort it. Coming into the show, there is a

dance routine call the old bamboo. Dick Van Dyke expertly does that. He

learnt it in a week. It ticks me for months. That is as in the middle of

it. It is just a great routine. It is so full on. So energetic. It is

crazy. I have to basically dance around one bed with Michelle

Collins. That is made for the night. I products about a bit in my

pyjamas. It is like being at home. Both of you have kids. Is it hard to

be out on the road, leaving the kids behind? My kids are 25 and 22 and

one of them have emigrated. He has well gone. They do their own thing.

I like the travelling around because you get to see things. I like

Belfast a lot. People are always... You ask on Twitter and say, is there

any that dashes anywhere I should go? One of the first jokes someone

learns, you go to transport Museum, which is much ruder in the local

accent. There is a chip shop in Edinburgh

were they said they will decry anything. And the bloke went in and

said can you fry my iPhone, and they covered it in batter and put it in

the fryer. And it did not work. My mum was only 17 when she had me.

Only two weeks after her birthday, I popped along. She's looking younger

than her age. Tell them the one at the restaurant. All that I said, I

did not mean to be insulting, I was making conversation, I said when did

you start stand-up's 1983. I said, that is weird, because when you are

learning to do stand-up, I was learning to stand up! I didn't mean

it as an insult, I was just joking. We love it on this show when

household names like you just pop in. You are continuing, what is it,

March 27? We are here until another week and a half. Even that night,

Whee Kim out and met people in their 80s, right down to kids aged three

and four. It is a lovely show for everyone in between. Good luck with

it. Thank you. Thank you. Let's take a breather and

it. Thank you. Thank you. Let's take with some classic 80s pop. Playing

the waterfront Hall in Belfast, here they are with the most successful

single, the top ten single, lessons in love.

# I've been trying to reach your shore

# All the dreams that we were building

# All the homes that we were building

# We should use it, we could use it, yeah

# All the dreams that we were building

# We should use it, we could use it, yeah

The big news in the budget was the sugar tax on soft drinks. Chancellor

George Osborne said that the move would raise ?530 million and the

government will end the money on primary school sports in England.

Here in Northern Ireland, could we can decide how to spend it. Critics

have labelled it another nanny state move under tax on the poor. What do

you make of this? I don't think it is going to help taxing one sugary

product. The cause sugar is so widely hidden in so many foods. You

want lots taxed? If you start taxing them you should tax those foods.

Although then's what are we trying to achieve? To achieve a reduction

in obesity. We are trying to address obesity reduction and we need to

look where it is coming from, which means that it is about education,

about calories, about what people are eating, not just about one food.

The support the government sure tax or not's absolutely not. It is

politicians trying to make themselves look good, to show that

they want to do something when, in reality, this is not the solution.

You work closely with Jamie Oliver on this. Back off, let us live our

own lives and decide what we want to eat. That would be fine if industry

was responsible in how they marketed and sold food and told you what the

sugar content was. We have a situation in Northern Ireland with

7% of children out a beast, 21% overweight, with dental decay a

serious issue and getting worse in terms of the number of tooth

extraction is that children have to go into hospital for, this is an

issue that we need to solve, and put out step I step a number of

different measures. Does your friend Jamie make cakes? Sugary drinks are

the number one source of sugar in children's... Jamie Oliver has done

something that many other restaurants would look to follow

here in the UK, which is that his restaurants have imposed a 10p per

drink quality levy on sugary drinks. But you are prepared to sell them.

What we are talking about here is choice, we are not banning a

product, but we are saying that we want, it is parents who are saying

that there is too much sugar in people's diets... We will talk about

the broader issue of the sugar tax. I did see Jamie Oliver jumping up

and down in an orgasmic way this morning. We can action we see this.

Look at that. That is the man who does sell full sugar drinks in his

restaurants, doesn't he? He has imposed a voluntary levy on those

drinks to get people to have the choice to say, if you want to have

these drinks, this is the extra. This is something worth celebrating.

This is a really good day for children's health. It should be the

first of many good days if both the government in the UK and hopefully

in Northern Ireland... Sugar is in so many products that people don't

even know about. And the food labelling legislation is impossible

to read. I have been in this business 20 years, and I cannot tell

you looking at the food labelling -- labelling how many spoonfuls of

sugar are in there, because it is hidden. We need to start from

educating people and the result is obviously, immediately, change the

food labelling legislation, but what they try to do is change the tax so

that we take the focus on what we should... Hold on. On the labelling

side, this is something the UK Government has said, we want this

new front of packed nutrition labelling. Some retailers were good

at saying, yes, we are going to implement that. Manufacturers were

much lower and there are a number that have not done it. -- slur.

Industry leadership will not get us to where we need to be. I totally

accept we should reduce the amount of sugar being taken into people's

bodies. Sugar is implicated in certain types of cancers. But it is

a stealth tax against poorer people. ?530 million raised in revenue

through taxes. If the government wants to cut the name of a sugar

going into people's diets, it only needs to make a lossing that you can

only put XML of sugar in each product. It is an attack on the poor

and on working families, but not as much as the ?4.4 billion of cuts to

Personal Independence Payments. When you consider the rise in childhood

obesity and diabetes, I think there's a vast amount of sugar in

soft drinks, and they have no nutritional value. This is a valid

step in helping to prevent a rising epidemic. But people know nowadays

that fizzy drinks have sugar in them. It is actually a very small

percentage. The hidden sugar in food products that people are not aware

of, what about all of the yoghurt, all the sources of sugar that we

don't know about? For children and young people, young adults, sugary

drinks are the number one source of sugars in their diets.

drinks are the number one source of absolutely right. The confectionery

industry needs to back up its game. absolutely right. The confectionery

Their loss of different ways that we get sugar in our diet. But sugary

things, that is what per-pupil drink. What about the kind of foods

and products that some of the richer people consume? Sugary drinks are

non-essential part of our diet. So are chocolate bars. But it is that

they have no nutritional benefits apart from those extra calories.

Will we tax fatty foods like burgers next? Scarily, it is people on lower

incomes, lower social economic classes who have the worst health,

who suffer the most from dental decay and it is a number of things

which includes changing the way of marketing to get away from this

environment where we are confronted with marketing of high-fat, high

sugar foods. Would you tax burgers, would you tax chips? Would you have

an extra levy on all of that, and on my favour, chicken, chips, peas and

gravy and on pawn crackers? -- favourites. The evidence is that the

tax on sugary drink is proportionate and it works, it works in Mexico, it

works in... Can give you an anecdotal example? There was a 22

stone man sitting in this studio drinks diet cola. That is me. I love

my chicken, chips, peas and gravy, crisps, burgers and chocolate, and I

drink diet cola! Stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

APPLAUSE You may be the exception. What we

are talking about is the population as a whole, these are population

level measures. And the cost to the NHS is huge, the cost to our

economic well-being as well as on physical and mental health and

well-being, is huge. We need to do many of these things, whether it is

about tackling junk food marketing, better labelling, better education

of food... I hope that I'm not being rude, there are lots of people

trying to get in, from the audience. The lady in front with the flowery

dress. It is a great idea and it is not a tax on the tour. The best

drink any human being can have is water from the tap, and it is free,

cheap and the limited. -- Unlimited. Talking about sugar tax, that drives

people towards thy drinks which are full of aspartame and visual

sweeteners which can be equally or even more dangerous than sugar. What

does mark think about that? You are absolutely right. Irrespective of

what the evidence shows on the artificial sweeteners, it is

inconclusive, but I agree, some people have valid concerns. The

evidence isn't there to say that we should not be switching away from

them. At least he is trying here, hold on, Mark, you are sitting there

saying that we don't really know, we need to be educated. Of course we

know what we are eating. Yes, but we are eating sugar across-the-board.

Just focusing on one product... You really think that 50, 60p more is

going to stop people now drinking less of the fizzy drinks? One M5

children in Northern Ireland are now overweight or obese. Absolutely, and

we don't argue. The figures are horrendous. It is affecting our

health, it is having horrendous consequences with chronic

conditions. This is why we need to first of all start Rory know that it

is going to make a difference, make it clear with food labelling that

people know what they are getting, a flavoured yoghurt which has up to

five teaspoons of sugar, these products are marketed for children,

they are yoghurt, they look like they are healthy, and they are

almost... Rosemary Mullen is a dentist. What do you say? Sugar is

the sole cause of the epidemic of dental decay. Let me give you some

figures. The quick, if you can. 25,000 teeth were taken out under

general anaesthetic in Northern Ireland in 2013. From 5000 patients.

That is an average of five teeth each patient. And of those, a

significant average were baby teeth. In 2013 in one year, in Northern

Ireland. Andy Saull cause of dental decay is sugar. -- and the sole

cause. 10% rise in admission to general anaesthetic for tooth

extraction in the last four years, getting worse. We did make some

improvements, and yes, those are horrendous figures, and this is

preventable disease. Is anybody here a full sugar cola drink man? That is

the sugar you will be drinking in just one can. Does anybody like a

Chai latte? That is the sugar that is in one Chai latte. When you start

looking at that, I've found that astonishing. It is part of the

debate, why should we, in one way, be focusing on sugary cola, sugary

fizzy drinks when that is what is in a Chai latte? Just, your reaction to

that, anybody? It is unbelievable. OK. There you

go, thank you very much indeed. I want to say thank you very much that

all of you for watching this series tonight. We are on a for six weeks

every time. It is because of your support that we have been continuing

for over ten years now. We will end with a reminder that it is Paddy 's

Day tomorrow. And we will leave you with some Irish than sing with a

difference, these guys were semifinalists on Britain's Got

Talent. To take the series out, a big Wellcome -- a big welcome to...