Episode 5 Nolan Live

Arlene Foster says don't let Martin McGuinness be First Minister.

Is that the big election issue for you?

We're also debating the smoking ban across all hospital grounds.

Shaun Ryder, yes, Shaun Ryder, is our special guest.

We've also music from Eliza and the Bear.

And it's all in front of a live audience.

There is the first shot and he is delighted to be on telly.

DUP leader Arlene Foster had a blunt message at the weekend.

She said vote for her party or Martin McGuinness

Is that going to be the big battle ground

Is it all going to be about Orange and Green,

Is that what is ahead of us? Gregory Campbell? Arlene Foster laid out her

vision of the future post the election and she laid out a number

of priorities. Investment, very important to get jobs for people. We

went through a period of downturn, and massive international downturn

but Northern Ireland was the biggest promoter of inward investment in the

United Kingdom in that downturn so hopefully now we are coming out of

it, we can build on that. Roads, health, education. She knew what she

was doing in her speech? Let's have a look for example the lines that

with turnout in that speech. What difference would it make? They

have got equal power. Well you see, you are singling out one part of her

speech. It is not one part, it is various parts. The vast bulk of the

speech did not deal with that. The point here is that we had a series

of things that we want to promote in terms of building a better future.

We also have to face up to the reality that many people will want

to know what is the direction of the Government after the Assembly

election is over. Healthy with this answer, what is the difference in

terms of power between ad First Minister and Deputy First Minister.

One can't walk the dog without the permission of the other? You said

that on a number of occasions. Every year, hundreds of people get awards

from Her Majesty and they get a letter from the First Minister, not

both First Minister and get the defenceman, from the First Minister.

When Her Majesty came to Stormont, who met her? To congratulate them on

her achievement. From the First Minister alone. The powers and

deciding policy, what is the difference in power? One of the

differences is that the largest party gets to nominate the First

Minister and they get to pick of the departmental responsibilities. Let

me put it this way, would you like to be the presenter of the

second-biggest show in the country? APPLAUSE

You knew how you would feel if your only be joint presenter of the

bigger show in the country and that is what Arlene Foster is. She is

joint First Minister with Martin McGuinness. And fact it is a joint

office, people like two persons, neither of which has any power

without the other. It is very clear that that is what it is. That is the

Belfast agreement, even it provided that the First Minister, as long as

there was a Unionist majority would always be a Unionist because they

said the First Minister came from the biggest tradition and the deputy

from the second tradition. Gregory and the DUP and Sinn Fein at the

thing I do is change that to being the biggest party. The reason they

doing that... Legislation went through the House of Commons in

early 07. Then speak against it, didn't speak against it, had the

opportunity to do about and that change the law... No,

opportunity to do about and that deliberate ploy. I am telling you,

it was a deliberate ploy. I was in the party at the time so I know it

was a deliberate ploy by Peter Robinson who thought it

was a deliberate ploy by Peter He thought it would be a terribly

clever device to He thought it would be a terribly

situation where you take the He thought it would be a terribly

Minister from the biggest party and then the DUP could say as they said

last then the DUP could say as they said

or you will get Martin McGuinness. It was conniving... You are saying

or you will get Martin McGuinness. that was a discussion within the

party? It is inaccurate. Amongst a range of... Jim's

party? It is inaccurate. Amongst a walks away for 20 years. He walked

away for 20 years and it's a good but everyone else didn't do it

likely. The point is... Anybody who says that they cannot act alone is

flying in the face every arty because she goes wherever she wants

to go as First Minister. because she goes wherever she wants

see the election coming up in two months' time, people want to know

what is the future like. What other job site? My question tonight, to

the actually cared if Arlene is Deputy First Minister First

Minister? Does it actually make a difference? In terms of what Harry

is going to happen in health and education in this country. The road

I drive over everyday. I have told you the difference. The First

Minister is the leader of the largest party, they get first pick

whatever departments are available I get more departments. Last test that

straightaway. If Arlene Foster is the First Minister, what is the

first apartments you want to pick. We will decide that for me come to

the election. After the vote. That is what happened the last time. Why

would anyone decide... But someone deciding now, which way will I go

to? They're not going to get a guide to what departments you are going to

take so that is not a steer for them. Tell them what your priorities

are. They were spelt out last Saturday. None of the BBC reporters

turned up. I know there were no cameras there. There were no BBC

reporters there. However, be priorities have been spelt out. Not

as part of it. What department is your priority after the election.

Arlene has spelt out the priority. Hospitals. There is going to be a

change. There is a reduction in the number of departments. There will be

discussions between the parties. Let's just stop and be back here.

You have told us that one of the reasons why it is important, the

difference between First Minister and Deputy First Minister is because

the First Minister of course has the best decision over what departments

they can take. That is that the correct. Help is there understand

which department you will take first. Tell all these people. The

election campaign hasn't even begun yet. It hasn't even begun yet.

Really? That is correct. Nomination day is several days away. Will you

tell us before polling day? Tell me this, has any party anywhere in

Northern Ireland outlined what their preferred choice of department is?

Of course they haven't. You're onto night beating your chest about it.

Now I am saying our properties have been spelt out and then we say which

are preferred departments and discussions will be held with all

the other parties to see how the mechanism will be run and who gets

what pick in what order. The discussions I heard with all the

other parties, why does it matter who is First Minister and Debbie to

First Minister? The First Minister gets first picked. You asked me what

the differences. The difference is the biggest party gets the First

Minister and as the first pick. Health is so important in this

country, we have seen that, Simon Hamilton, many people might think he

has done a job doing a good job. Health is our department, you can't

take them all. If it is apartment she will fight for? The way the

system works... You let another party take health? You could say

education. Is that more important than health? All departments have a

degree of importance or you can't take them all. What is the first

pick going to be? The Deputy First Minister does not get that choice.

You asked what the difference was when I've told you. Is there some

part of that you don't understand? Do you want to be the presenter of

the second-biggest stroll in the country? Is the blood shows that

elections here... Is an absolute disgrace to be completely honest

with you. For our First Minister, 18 years after the Good Friday

agreement, honest endeavours to create reconciliation and human

rights to come out and say the biggest issue is stop the other

ones. Rather than say let's compete on vision. Was that the biggest

issue in that speech? That was the dog whistle being raced to the

megaphone. Vote for me all the other is getting. I never heard the

Alliance party criticise what Martin McGuinness said three weeks ago.

When Jerry Kerry put out his leaflets in the last unwell action

he was saying exactly the same game. You had me on a Monday morning on

your radio show on the same issue and after I was on the programme,

you didn't play the clip of your interview with Mike Nesbitt last

week. You are having a go at me because we

predicted what you might do in your own speech and you did it! Stop

making this about me! You are obsessed with me!

APPLAUSE. But raised this with Mike Nesbitt

last week. It did not happen with Martin McGuinness and then you

decide to club asked us when Arlene Foster races at. You talk about

economic someone's side of the mouth and then sectarianism --

sectarianism with the other. Last time what we got was stopped and

cool over the flags and the budget and it is absolutely outrageous. And

brags it is coming up, that is economic illiteracy from the DUP.

There are issues that need urgent attention and we need to know, the

environment, issues about education, 7% still in integrated education and

we're not moving forward. He did talk about those issues. Yes, but

with this green and orange area, it is only about that. The big lattes

or in government together, I cannot offer alternative platforms? -- big

parties, they are in government. Compromise is not a bad thing. But

this is a joint office and people wanted that. And you cannot

this is a joint office and people your own nose but that the other one

but this is a sham fight, it your own nose but that the other one

the last nine years and we have seen this in every election, this

the last nine years and we have seen Catholics in North al fast and only

unionists for East Belfast Catholics in North al fast and only

border does not move one inch after each election.

border does not move one inch after this is switching people off, you

border does not move one inch after and believing that politics can do

anything. It is deflecting over the fact that you are right, no movement

on things like flags, not moving on around victims and the past. Maybe I

am getting older but sometimes something goes off in my head and I

think, did you just say that? You have seen -- you said this has been

a mess? And we shall do another five years, and you say, we will carry on

with his mess? The SDLP was very clear, committed to power-sharing

for as long as we... We clear, committed to power-sharing

to be dragged kicking and screaming into power-sharing. We have been

reluctant to leave the business of running the place and doing

government to the people that did have to be kicked, screaming into

with environment, we shall go into with environment, we shall go into

the next election with a platform for the things we want to do

differently. If the DUP is so concerned about their partner, Sinn

Fein, becoming first Minister, they have it

appointed if the second party can appoint the Deputy First Minister so

if the DUP can stand against McGuinness as a first Minister, they

can deliver that by McGuinness as a first Minister, they

will not nominate a Deputy First Minister, they can guarantee

Martin McGuinness will not be First Minister. The problem

Martin McGuinness will not be First what would happen in that context?

Martin McGuinness will not be First maybe, if he had more integrity and

honesty, he would say that, he wants maybe, if he had more integrity and

no government. What we have had for nine years is dysfunctional failure

at Stormont, delivered by the DUP and Sinn Fein, in charge

at Stormont, delivered by the DUP cabal, and OFM-DFM is the most

dysfunctional, it will agree about nothing and smile about everything.

You have had people trying the best defined somewhere forward, people

with different views, rather than sniping from the outside, may be

sitting down, as hard as it can be, to together. And what have they

delivered? It is maybe more difficult to do than what you do?

Which is complain. APPLAUSE.

You should have a different sort of television programme than this, the

personification of whingeing. Perhaps some people will lose --

learn some lessons from yourself, as the chief whinger. His problem is

that all of these complaints that he has about the system of government,

and it is not perfect, but all of these issues that he has about the

improvement cannot be obtained unless we negotiate those changes.

He thinks he can get them but he cannot get them. You have changed

nothing! We talk about creating a vision for the future and not

creating fear, you have to negotiate afterwards on a set of policies that

you have laid out and our policy is all about faster, forward, together,

all I can hear from Arlene Foster is slower. I don't know who came up

with that but I think it is good, we want to go faster. What policies?

Won all of the stuff around deciding about health and integrated into --

education. You want to go faster on health? This is not some PR talk,

what are you going fast run? The media proposal is this needs to be

done by five parties sitting together at the end of the election.

You did not have to take that portfolio last time around. We will

make decisions earlier on. What does that mean? Faster on what? It means

you have to sit down with evidence -based policies... Which part? To go

faster? About actual care for the people at home in communities. Go

faster? What is? The people want us to set down and actually focus on

those people... Here is what I suggest people did not want, these

big lines, faster, together, forward? Is in any depth to that

policy? Anything you can say to these people, here is what is going

to change in your lives? Firstly, we go back to the table and incest, if

we had the say, that something is done about all these issues from the

fresh start on the past, to move forward... Let us go faster on the

past? , on! That is vigorous, political parties should be coming

forward with depth. This is about depth, if you want to change, we

have two negotiate, we promise we will take away moving towards

sectarian politics and move toward something which emphasises common

good. We want to work common ground, we cannot pretend that people do not

have nationalised or unionist views but it does not mean that we cannot

move on 95% of things, like Brexit, things do not have to be green and

orange, we will have mechanisms for the Deputy First Minister, we can

have a settlement for victims and something that resolves the mess

around the transfer test. You think some people will vote? For the First

and Deputy First Ministerss? They reflect the views of the electorate?

I have been on the doors, people tell me, of all the things, they are

not going, who will be first Minister and what is the mechanism

to elect them? I want to talk about the economy. We did not make this...

You did! So you don't mind? It is not the only thing. Is this a big

issue? People are talking about who is going to lead... Your people? The

voters. For the DUP, is this a big issue? Be first Minister? It is, it

is an important issue. Not the only one. -- the First Minister. You have

sustained Martin McGuinness for nine years. You are walking around --

walking away... People want to build a future and they do not want people

to rewrite the past, that is what we are determined to do. Whether The

Times are good or bad, absentees like Jenny... There is a

contradiction here. Calm down. So, the bogeyman, Martin McGuinness...

Don't let Martin McGuinness be First Minister. Vote for us all that will

happen, and we're going on a trip on St Patrick's Day, Arlene Foster and

Martin McGuinness, together, any inward investment press

conferences... And those jobs are coming. He is not the bogeyman then!

If they were not there, who would be one of the first journalists to

criticise them? Are you talking about me again? Any journalist,

while Ivy not there? -- why are they not there? As a young voter,

something I realised it is a lot of difference between both elections,

last year we looked into policies and what the parties were trying to

get across, trying to get us to vote on the policies that suited us, this

year I feel that it is voting for this one because you don't want to

let the bad guys get the First Minister position. Why is there such

a difference between these elections? OK. The man with the

glasses. Northern Ireland was divided along sectarian lines for

decades and was disastrous, we are meant to be moving forward and there

are so many issues that affect entire communities, the struggling

economy, the public service, the referendum, environment, asylum...

Do you care? Those are the issues we should be focusing on, trying to

unite the communities instead of playing on their fear of who is

going to be in or not. These issues affect everybody and we should merge

the communities together. Malcolm Glazer back this is about the DUP

trying to be the biggest party and Glazer back this is about the DUP

stopping Sinn Fein from being the biggest party and the threats are

not those parties threatening each other, the threats of the rival

parties. This device that Jim Allister points out to maximise the

DUP vote ledger crush the Ulster unionist Party and the Alliance

Party and that provides the unionist Party and the Alliance

destroy the SDLP. Arlene Foster talks about 2% of

destroy the SDLP. Arlene Foster will slip from the DUP to Sinn Fein.

destroy the SDLP. Arlene Foster None of them! But there will be

votes fought for between the DUP and the Ulster unionists. We'll DUP

voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't know what will happen. But

voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't number of nationalists who would

voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't who would vote for the DUP and that

voters turn to Sinn Fein? We don't That is welcome.

contributing factor towards us moving forward, so be it.

are about parties trying to win. Imagine that! On what basis?

are about parties trying to win. Or not letting the bogeyman in?

are about parties trying to win. is one aspect of the five issues. Is

this selection based on green and orange? It is sectarian

scaremongering because of McGuinness is First Minister he will

have no more power than today, McGuinness is First Minister he will

a joint post, Joe is a lack of security

was buried as appointing from Arlene Foster, we thought people would see

a different style of leadership and it has become saturated

scaremongering and this is not about Sinn Fein and the DUP, this is about

the DUP are being afraid of losing ground to the UUP. What message does

this send out around the world? If, all of a sudden, there was a

nationalist with that title- First Minister. The signal around that? Is

not fair for them to say... It is symbolism and Martin McGuinness has

said he is happy not to be the First symbolism and Martin McGuinness has

Minister or Deputy First Minister, it is just scaremongering. This is

about frightening unionists into voting for the DUP. Martin

McGuinness said he also wanted to be First Minister.

that when other people talk about this issue, it goes over the heads

of some commentators and this issue, it goes over the heads

But when Arlene Foster mentions this in a speech, suddenly everybody...

It was not one part of the speech. I nearly bounced off my chair! It was

not just one part. It was in the middle... It was in the middle...

You should get more exercise! It was in the middle and at the end. Yes,

one small part. But the point is... It was not one small part. I am

going to put that on the website tomorrow and we will show you that

it is not one part. Others mentioned it and you did not

make a song and dance about it. Are you going to serve under him? Tell

you what I'll do. I won't walk away like you did in the last.... That's

for certain. I would walk away and leave.... He went absent question.

APPLAUSE Is the DUP prepared to serve under

Martin McGuinness? Whenever Sinn Fein have done the right thing which

they have done on occasion, I have recognised it, when they have done

the wrong thing as they have done on many occasions, we have confronted

them unlike Mr Alistair who ran away. You you what away for 20

years. We didn't walk away either. Are you going to serve under

McGuinness in your term? Which is it? Arlene Foster is going to be the

First Minister because the majority of the Unionist community are going

to vote for her. Some people will find that hard to live with, some

people will not recognise that but that is a fact. Because you are

scaremongering. Would you serve with him and under him? People are

entitled to try and go and be the biggest party but this is

deflection. If I never see another symbolic handshake up instalment for

the rest of my life, I will be very happy about it. This is an attempt

to deflect from the last nine years you haven't really achieved

anything. You talk about investment and jobs and I'm going to explain to

you. It is not that, for example, we're talking about corporation tax

for the last 20 years, you still haven't managed that. Sure, the

investors are looking for stability and you are bringing the Assembly

down every few months, they are looking for skills, they are looking

for infrastructure and you can't build the road up to that. You have

been part of it. Stop pretending you're been on the outside. I'm not,

we are being and it constructive opposition within the executive.

You're part of the opposition now? I believe we are. There is breaking

News that night, the SDLP are in the opposition inside the Government.

Every member of every parliament is there to hold the Government to

account. Every health is there to hold the Government to account. At

least he is honest about it. What is the weight inside the garment? You

will have the biggest numbers and in what way will they be there? This

head counting nonsense with putting by, as Jim said, by the DUP and sent

Andrews in order to do to create internal competition. I want one

last point here. Here is my last point. I hope that some people will

actually not headcount, with think with their heads and their vote will

count in a different way. I am exhausted. Give our panel of round

of applause. Thank you. My next guest is rock star royalty

and has led a roller-coaster life of highs and lows in the music

business after finding fame as Yes, ladies and gentlemen,

it's Shaun Ryder! what you make of that? That is heavy

gear. It is interesting to have you here is shorn because you are from a

big Irish family. Shaun, your mob Linda was from a catholic

background. Dott your mum. I'm basically wondering if your Irish

roots matters to you. Yes and no. I don't make a big deal out of

anything. That is their lot not me. Did that surprise you what that was

like her? You seem a bit stunned by it? That political conversation? No,

that is just a normal day in Northern Ireland. Your dad, Fred,

your grandad Fred, he was head of the local Orange order. Yes, he was.

You take an interest in Northern Ireland? No, I like pubs. I'm not

into politics it is not me. I write songs. You are very good at it of

course. Best known for the Happy Mondays. Tells me what it feels like

as an artist playing the likes of Glastonbury. Glastonbury, it's a

show. Simple as that. The bigger the audience the easier it is. I find

small audience is very difficult. If you go on and you're applying a gig

in front of 30 people that is an intense but 100,000 people, that is

show business. So small audience who would more difficult.

show business. So small audience who knew I stood right there singing,

shaking about. Surely when you knew I stood right there singing,

certain number of gigs then your knew I stood right there singing,

confidence for evermore? Yes and no. Does Fame sit easily with you? Same?

That it is part of the game and part of the job. Did you actually enjoy

being a star when you look back on it all? I don't really go into that,

I am an artist. I don't do reality television. You don't do reality

television? We are going to see you. In fact I think we can see you. This

was back at the years ago. This is you with a snake. Let's have a look

at this. I will pull you out. Let's have a look at this one more time.

In slow motion. Did that actually hurt? It is a show business snake.

They got these snakes, it is show business take. They put them to

sleep and then they bring them out and you going to the task. It is a

show business snake. If that thing that may, I wanted to rip its head.

If they had done that, there would have been a lot of political

correctness. You can't kill a show business snake. It was a normal

snake, I could've killed it. But you can't kill that. Did it hurt? Just a

bit. And when you do a show like that of course that adds to all this

fame, as to the celebrity and adds to the buzz around you, doesn't it?

It was sort of a change of career. When you start off with artists we

don't do reality television and that was looked down upon. It is sort of

all changed the game. At this years old, people got to sort of see who I

was, rather than sort of the headlines. I want to ask you about

the drugs. OK. I want to ASCII about your drugs. Are you clean now?

the drugs. OK. I want to ASCII about You've been area open about it. I

was a 20-year-old kid, 18-year-old, as a 53 of mine you grow out of

that. This is the point, there will be 18 and 20 old kids watching this

tonight without doubt benefit of hindsight and experience. You said

you basically tried everything going. Did it mess you up? That is a

difficult one when you get into the drugs and kids. I was lucky enough

to be in show business. I wasn't an lucky enough to be on the street and

be a kid taking drugs. My express is totally different to a kid going out

there trying to live on drugs. How bad it a get? Not as bad as any kid

out there. I was in show business. Was it hard to kick the habit? Not

really, after I hit 40, I wonder kid any more. I don't want to be living

that live so I hit 40, that is 13 years ago and I sucked it. I read

this story that when you were in America, you are doing code at the

time, someone pulled a gun on you? That's just how it is. We apologise

for that language. People just pull guns out. No they don't. Yes, they

do. You should know that living over here. What happened? We would try to

score in some part of New York. We were trying to score crack. We

decided we really liked crack cocaine so we wanted to go for more.

After we scored some, dads, when he talks, he spits and when he is

speaking, he's got big gap in his teeth and this bit was coming out

all over this kid. This kid has got spit all over his face, he decided

he didn't like that and he was good to shoot me because he thought it

was me spitting on him. Why did he pull the trigger? The guy that

originally sold us the crack appeared out of nowhere and sorted

it all out. It is not what you know it is who you know. You are kind of

saying this as if you ended up as a nice encounter. That is scary stuff.

I suppose so, yes. Would you stop faring? -- swearing. You are a

reformed family man. Your wife keeps a tight rein on you. Yes, if she

heard me swearing now, she would wait until I was sleeping and punch

me in the face. This is Joanne and she has five rules for you. Does

she? Never joined our call in the house, no drug-taking, knows no

king, no swearing is, no cheating with each other. You are reformed

family man. For a few years now. When I was doing... I started in the

Happy Mondays as 18-year-old boy so had gone through life in a band and

we have a license to do things different which is great. My Mrs

comes in and invents rules and that is just how it is. We are running

out of time but I don't want you to run at a time without asking you

about this test are storing, -- test posturing. I never went to the

doctors and I never went to the hospital and when I hit 40 things

started going wrong, I saw that as an MOT. You going, the American

Embassy Tommy had the mania and I had no testosterone. I got that

sorted out. Did you feel a difference? Yes, absolutely. I had

to have an injection every three months in the backside and the wife

could feel the difference. Again, without being up there and going

back to 21 mentally, it was like being 21 again. If you were looking

at your kids now and saying to them, from the way I've lived my life and

what I've done, what is the kind of lesson? I am lucky enough to have...

The wife does all the talking. I don't. Do you ever have that talk

with your parents about sex education? No, we didn't. We just

found about and that is where I come from with the kids. I've got

grown-up kids and the young kids and I was lucky enough again to become a

parent again as a grown-up. And so the child having children which is

the first time round I without making a career. This time round, I

get to do it all... Right. You did get to get it right. I wish we had

more time to talk but I overran with those politicians. Thank you for

coming in. And to coincide with the date,

health trusts here have banned All smoking shelters have

been removed and staff, patients and visitors have been told

they can't puff anywhere Even e-cigarettes and smoking

in your car on hospital grounds Is this a step too far

or a breath of fresh air? Vinny has been up to

Belfast City Hospital What do you think? It is a bloody

joke! You were just having a smoke? What about this? I think this is a

disgrace. I have been going in there for a number of years, after cancer,

and it always annoyed me to see people standing there, smoking,

dreadful. What do you think about the smoking ban? It is good. -- not

good, you cannot go out or anything. You still need it? It calms me down.

The government wants you to do things that they want. They are

trying to look after people's health? How much money are they

getting from cigarettes, from tax? We have

getting from cigarettes, from tax? we have to go somewhere!

getting from cigarettes, from tax? very good thing. It sends a smoking

getting from cigarettes, from tax? negative message. You might have a

terminal patient who was given three weeks to live and they first deck --

spending adhere to get pain relief and they cannot come out here and

have a cigarette. It is a good idea, if you stop smoking. You have to let

people have their own choice. They talk about choices but smokers, the

choices are being taken away. Joining me now from our Reading

studio is celebrity chef who is patron of pro-smoking group

Forest, and the commentator,

Andrea McVeigh. Should people not have free choice?

People do have a free choice, smoking is not against the law, this

is about their health giving environment where people are going

to get healthy and you cannot have people standing and smoking outside

a hospital. What if they are addicted? You know what, there are

plenty of programmes within hospitals to help them stop. If they

are in hospital for whatever reason, they can access services. I have a

genuine interest in this, it has made me angry for ten years, this

issue of smoking in hospitals. I could not believe that this morning,

the amount of public reaction from both sides, why free choice in a

hospital environment? You do not want people smoking outside the

front door? Do you? Some people do. The point is, you have people in

hospital, it is a very stressful time, they are going to have an

operation maybe. They need something to relieve that stress. I believe

that it is the freedom of choice of that individual. You do not smoke

inside the building, we understand that, but how many times have you

been outside a hospital and you can see the workers, the doctors and

nurses, the hospital porters, catering staff, smoking outside and

the patients, in dressing gowns, even with their little tubes,

outside having a cigarette because... But smoking contributes

to 30% of all cancers in this country? 30%! 24% of people smoke in

this country in Northern Ireland. It kills 2300 people here every year.

But lots of things will kill you. The amount of chemicals in the

atmosphere, the amount of anti-fire spray that they put on the sofa. But

that is not being put onto people going into hospital. I had cancer

ten years ago. And in order to get chemotherapy to cure me, to help you

live, I had to walk past smokers to go into the cancer centre and they

were patients, and visitors, standing outside the cancer centre

and to get chemotherapy to save my life I had to walk past these

smokers. That is incredibly distressing, for a start and it is

also unhealthy. I don't care what people do in their own home but if

they are affecting my health and this is a caregiving environment...

They don't have to... You can protect that having areas away from

the doers so that you don't have to pass through smokers, we have a

situation in England and it hospitals are ripping people off

with car parking charges, so maybe, maybe this is a way of saying that

you can pay for a little cubicle to go and have a cigarette? There is

another way, they are trying to raise revenue. The thing is, take

the smokers away from the front door, but give them some space to go

and smoke, it is their choice. This is a question about how this can be

policed, icon from Derry, the first Health Trust to Inverness this, if

you look at two o'clock in the morning, outside Accident and

Emergency, the amount of people standing there, nurses and doctors

and patients, how will this be policed? Are you going to expect the

staff to actually tell the smokers that they cannot do that? I might

have missed this but I do not know how they can policed this. They have

not said they will impose fines, when they legislate for that? What

is the point? Exactly and that is my point, if you look at the Western

Health Trust, it has been intimated there for one year and it has made

absolutely no difference. And as a nonsmoker I think it is wrong, when

you have big signs that say no smoking, but it is making a mockery

of the entire Health Service. They reckon this costs hospitals 106 to

?4 million, smoking, every year. But we pay for 8000 nurses. But the

amount of tax that goes on the cigarettes, if you look at the

research, there is about ?12 billion going back into the Health Service.

Nobody is looking at the vulnerable patients with dementia and all

servers who do not know any better, a cigarette might calm them down,

and if they do not get that, they will get agitated. It will affect

other patients and staff members. But in a caregiving environment, 24%

the population here smoke, the majority do not, so in a situation

like this there is no win-win situation, one group has to have

their rights prioritised. In Antrim Area Hospital, will a patient have

to be taken to the roundabout away from the hospital grounds? What is

wrong with smoking patches? But the patient does not know any better. If

the patient has dementia. How can they have access to cigarettes? The

family brings them in. Imagine a summary said you couldn't have

borrowed chocolate or a cup of tea. You could say that to me! Medication

can also be used. Medication does not always work. I used to smoke

quite a lot. You stop? I stopped cold turkey. Cold turkey? So you are

defeating your own argument? I am not. You are saying people cannot go

cold turkey in hospital? A patient with all servers or dementia cannot

because in their own reality... I have dealt with them in the past.

One second. Up here. Smoking is bad for you and in an ideal world nobody

would be smoking but every week you read about overstretched health care

workers, what are they supposed to do when somebody goes away for a

cheeky cigarette? Are going to be smoking shelter outside the main

door, it might be 30 minutes. What happens if they fall over having a

cigarette? That is another thing for a doctor or a health care

professional to worry about than they already have enough to worry

about. You don't have to have a cigarette, you could smoke on trains

and buses, in restaurants, you cannot do that any more. We're

talking about outside the hospital. It is the choice of the customer, it

is the choice of the person if they want to smoke, it is a legal

activity and there are doing this within the building, they are going

outside, perhaps 20 yards away, have shelters. The fact is, people want

to smoke, the majority do not smoke and we all know it is bad for us,

but people smoke. And it is legal. Can people smoke in your restaurant?

No, the smoking ban in restaurants has been good, I'm not sure that it

has been good in pubs, it is very congenial for a lots of smokers,

outside pubs in Ireland, but his work all of the craic is. It has

brought people together. -- latticework all of the craic is.

Outside? Yes, outside, that is where people get together to chat and have

a cigarette. But we're not talking about a public park by the

middle-of-the-road, we're talking about hospital grounds, everyday

people are battling at the very front line of curing the lives of

people and in five years or ten years, we will look back at this and

think this is as ridiculous as doctors advertising cigarettes in

the 1950s. People in the future will not believe this conversation. I

know I am going off on a tangent slightly but when I was looking at

this, one statistic that startled me, 13% of 11-16 -year-olds in this

country smoke. 13%. I just find that astonishing. And for the shops, and

this is a tangent, for those shopkeepers selling those

cigarettes, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Unbelievable. The young

lady... I want to go back to the point about policing. I was at the

launch today of the campaign and in terms of the staff, it is going to

be at the discretion of the manager and it will be dealt with as part of

the disciplinary process if the staff are found to be smoking. But

what about the patient? For the patient and visitors, the majority

of the staff in all of the different areas, they were given

the team who have worked tirelessly the team who have worked tirelessly

and they will be going to the patients and delivering cards

and they will be going to the and will give them information about

services... This man... and will give them information about

talking about teenagers smoking, I work with a lot of teenagers and one

of the strangest work with a lot of teenagers and one

happening is some kids are going straight onto vaping, without

smoking. E-cigarettes are also banned? We're not talking about

hospitals, they are using e-cigarettes and they have never

smoked in their life. Very quickly? I want to make the point about the

staff because I am a smoker and I struggle to get through a couple of

hours in my job without going out for a smoke and these people are

saving lives, working in the most stressful conditions and were taking

away something they are addicted to and not letting them have a quick

break. It is just ridiculous. Ladies and gentlemen, round of

That's almost it for tonight, and don't forget you can continue

the conversation after the show on Facebook live and Twitter

and again on the radio show tomorrow.

We like to champion new music from up and coming bands

This five-piece indie folk group have seen their last two singles

With their song Friends from their self-titled new album,

# And when the water is too deep to swim

# And you will swim from shore to open shore

# Cut me down to firewood and carve our names

I'm Vincent Kearney, I'm home affairs correspondent