Episode 5 Nolan Live

The gay cake row in the courts again as Ashers lose their appeal.

But is it an affront to religious freedom,

We're also talking waiting lists and the health service.

The minister has an action plan, but will it deliver for you?

And there's music from Tony Christie as well.

Live from the BBC, get ready for the big show!

The Christian owners of Ashers bakery refused to make a cake

because of the slogan 'Support Gay Marriage'.

They were taken to court and a judge ruled that it discriminated

On Monday they lost their appeal against that decision.

Let's see what was said from both sides after the verdict.

The three judges made a decision that said the judge made the correct

judge and -- judgment that when Gareth ordered the cake he was

discriminated against. We are extremely disappointed with the

ruling. If equality law means people can be punished politely refusing to

other people's causes then it needs to change. It undermines democratic,

religious freedom and free speech. Joining me is Naomi Long, who just

a couple of hours ago was elected as the new Alliance Party leader,

DUP MP Gregory Campbell, And from our Foyle studio,

SDLP MLA Mark H Durkan. Set this out for us, Gregory. We

have to respect the court's decision and the judge's view. A lot of

controversy though. Yes, and I think for many people Monday was a sad

day. One comforting factor I would take from it has been the

consequences of Tuesday and today. If you look at the leader writers

and commentators, people who start of their contributions by saying if

this was a same-sex marriage row I would be in the opposite corner to

the bakery, but I firmly reject and resent them being forced to do

something they do not want to do. That appears to be a theme running

across society and that is good. At the very heart of this, essentially

what the judge said, he said, look, if you were to put a football team

on a cake as a baker it doesn't mean that you support them. If it is

Halloween and you put a witch on a cake, you don't believe in

witchcraft. It was unfortunate the use of those arguments. Does anyone

seriously make that vacation can be made between what happened in Ashers

and a baker who is a Liverpool supporter being asked for a

Manchester United kick? It is completely different. The judge is

saying that because you do something as a business doesn't mean you

believe in it. The fact you are here doesn't mean you believe in the BBC.

The religious and moral lifestyle people adapt to whatever their

religion is something that is life changing, nothing to do with

football. And the stuff about witchcraft, people celebrate and

will be dressing up as all sorts of things this weekend for Halloween.

To say that is life changing in the same way as a religious and moral

outlook and someone wanting to force you to do something against your

will and against your conscience and freedom of religion, there is no

analogy like that at all. First of all, the judges upheld the fact that

you are entitled as an individual to protection of your own beliefs. They

said you cannot be forced to do anything as a business but they said

you cannot offer a service to one group of people in a certain way and

then decide because you don't agree with something somebody wants, if

you are a printer or a baker, you cannot say you will do this book

takes at not ones you don't agree with the opinion. If you don't want

to have to put political or religious messages you do not like

on cakes then do not offer that as a service. But you cannot say you will

print some religious messages you agree with but not ones you do not

agree with. Why not? We have the freedom to say we don't agree. If

someone wants to the door to ask for a service they should be treated

like anyone else. It is not a dispute of opinion, it is about our

business providing a service. We know in Northern Ireland how easy it

is for opinions to be shut down if they're not the majority and is not

healthy. The court decisions were not easy or simple but they're not

talking about forcing people to do things. Yes, you are. They will be

forcing them to have a policy which treats every request the same way.

Force them to do what they don't want to. No. Somebody goes up on the

Schenkel Road -- Shankill Road and says print a cake

with "Up to provos"? There are laws against that. All hassle it has

cost, is it really worth it, going to court? Is it? That has a point I

wanted to raise. Does the Equality Commission and should they, have a

mediation role? We are talking about the ethical issue here. If whenever

someone comes into a commercial premises and there is a dispute

about who should supply what, someone has asked for something and

they do not get it, if they go to the Equality Commission and they say

they have written to the supplier and they have not done what they

wanted so they have gone to court. What is the problem for providing

what it is that you want and is there a way round that? Why have

they not asked for that power? If that emerges over the course of the

next six or 12 months, will be be prepared to say they will mediate?

First of all, the Equality Commission have a duty under law as

the law stands. If someone comes with a complaint then they have to

investigate. They have to write to Everest complained against. I don't

think this is a debate about what the Equality Commission should or

should not be doing. It is about a business person in this country

being forced. I agree that a non-litigated solution would be

better. If there was opportunity to negotiate an outcome everyone was

happy with that would be preferable but that is not something the

Equality Commission can do. But they offered not to go to court. They

offered advice. I've got friends in England who cannot believe that this

has actually reached international news. The story about the icing on a

cake has gone to court and has been appealed. ?200,000 the cost. Because

of the gay marriage issue in Northern Ireland issue, it has

brought it up even more. It makes Northern Ireland look like it's in

the dark ages. It cake! It is much more than a cake. It is about being

forced to do something against your will. It is not. It is. It is being

forced to have a policy that treats everyone the same. You can refuse to

put political messages on cakes. What is wrong with someone saying

sorry I am a Christian and I did not believe in gay marriage? There isn't

anything wrong with that. Therefore I am not helping to promote that

message. What is wrong? There is nothing wrong with someone having

that view, a person has a right to opinion and free speech but when you

run a business you have additional duties, duties of care to your staff

and boys and you work within a legislative framework and one of the

things is that you treat all customers the same so you have to

have a policy that treats everyone that comes through your door of the

same way and what happens if you have an unpopular opinion but it is

not illegal or offence of, just not popular, and suddenly we have a lot

of people saying they will not print their material? They no longer have

freedom of speech. The point is that a bakery whose owners are Christians

feel they were pressurised by the Equality Commission, not offered any

mediation, offered no way out, all they were offered was... They want

an admission of guilt, the Equality Commission. And the courts agreed.

The courts can be wrong as well. We have a right to disagree with them.

When the Equality Commission took the case, I think it was justified

by the fact that the law court and the appeals court upheld the view.

Why hasn't been that since Monday people who were on the other side of

the argument queueing up to say they think this bakery company has been

wronged. I want to know what happens now if someone else goes in for a

gay marriage cake and they refuse? They decided they are going to stop

providing the cake printing service and Apple just be doing birthday

cakes. ?200,000, there is kids going without and all the money is wasted

over a cake and I don't understand it. Do you think someone on whatever

road it is on a loyalist community who objects to what Sinn Fein stand

for in should they be forced to bake a cake which says happy birthday,

Sinn Fein? They shouldn't be. For the same reason that Ashers

shouldn't be forced to do what they were asked to. There are vocal LGBT

activists out there. If there was a bakery owned by an LGBT activist and

the question came in and demanded a cake saying we oppose same-sex

marriage, if LGBT owner came to me and said they object, I would back

them because they were forced to do something they fundamentally agree

-- disagree with. Ashers has spent the last two and a

half years they don't support equal marriage and they have every right

to spend the next 20 years they don't support equal marriage but

it's when they refuse to provide a service because of their political

opinion. The fundamental thing that we need to consider here is the idea

that a printer printing something means that they are supporting or

promoting a particular message. You should speak to printers across

Northern Ireland to see if they agree with that because that is a

dangerous precedent to set in law. Printing something is not promoting

it. It's dangerous to say that they are therefore responsible and they

have promoted that particular message. The analogy I just

betrayed, if there was an LGBT owner of the Beagrie Andy Kristian came in

and asked predicate to be iced in the way that I've outlined, what

would you stand speakers mac if they provide a service without any

restrictions on what they are printing... Would you support the

right of that person not to proceed in the same way as I supported

Ashers? If they have to provide the service, they have to provide the

service. What the least being consistent. You're denying rights to

everybody then. It's the right of free speech. We all have a right to

free speech. We have made their position clear on equal marriage, no

one has stop them. You picked a scenario to me. Let me put a

scenario to you. If the people who provide the service to Ashers, we

are not going to provide you any more service because of your

position on equal marriage, would that be very? Because it's exactly

the same. They aren't being asked to provide a service. You're providing

and delivering the product. If they said based on your political

opinion, we are not going to provide you with that because we are not

letting you continue opposition to equal marriage. If they were

supplying flour to Ashers, that would be to beat a plethora of

things. You're not going to individually separating the might.

If they said we will not provide you service because of a political

opinion, would that be lawful? It's not the same analogy at all. It is

up slightly disclaimer. It's as bad as the football analogy. You dismiss

those analogies. It's because they're ludicrous. Reay a lot of

questions with the dressing up in schools at Halloween is contrary to

their beliefs. That is not a trivial issue, Gregory. They're obsessed

with people dressing up as nurses. You need to get out a lot more at

the end of October and sees what goes on at Halloween. The dress up

as anything and everything. What do you dress up as a Halloween? Am not

going to tell you. And you know why? It's my right not to tell you. Free

speech. When Ashers I is a cake and says happy birthday somebody. I be

thinking that experience sentiment? The are providing a service which

they are not endorsing. Peter is a prominent gay rights campaigner and

you are on the side of Ashers on this case. I totally disagree with

Ashers stands against equal marriage. And saddens the support

discrimination against the LGBT community in Northern Ireland. That

is not a Christian value at all. They are entitled to their

interpretation of their religious belief which is that gay marriage is

wrong. Having said that, I do defend their right to hold that view and my

concern in this case is that although I have great sympathy with

the position outlined by LGBT organisations, I think on balance,

it is important to be on the side of freedom of conscience and

expression. This particular case, Ashers did not disconnect against

Gareth Lee because he was gay, they discriminated against the message he

wanted on the cake. In my view, discrimination against people is

always wrong, never acceptable but discrimination against ideas I think

is legitimate any free and democratic society. Me and Peter

agree and disagree a lot of things. He has every right in his opinion on

this matter. A printer printing something is not the endorsement of

it. There is legislation was... There is logic behind that. Printer

printing something doesn't mean they're endorsing it. Yes and no. If

a printer is printing something, they may decide that what we are

being asked to print is incompatible with conscientious beliefs. I would

be very reluctant to force them under legal sanction to do so. If

the far right extremist went to a Jewish printer and demanded that he

or she printed a book denying the Holocaust, I would not like the

Jewish printer to be in a situation where he or she would fear being

sued if they failed deliver that. Naomi? I understand the point Peter

makes and respect him. I differ from it and the respect that in Northern

Ireland we have a particular quality laws that protect people from the

termination of their political opinions and beliefs. If we don't

uphold those laws properly in court, what will end up with is essentially

a situation where because of your political opinion or belief, you

could be denied services, denied access to things are entitled to and

I think that's wrong. I understand the issue of free speech that

someone is not actually endorsing a view. The people who print Gregory's

poster also print my posters. The are clearly not taking sides. I

don't know about you specifically. There might not be any more after he

signed at that. The are not endorsing either of us and I

wouldn't want to think that someone who disagreed with me would think

that that printer was responsible for my views and message. One of the

beauties of this programme being live tonight, there are lots and

lots of different ways you can get in touch with us tonight. There are

a lot of people on Facebook and my Twitter feed at Stephen Nolan and

text sending is different views. Here is a teacher he was just text

with me in the last few minutes. It says, Stephen if my religious

beliefs stated that I could not promote homosexuality, does that

mean that I could choose not to teach gay children? What a

fascinating text, actually. It's a question for you. Riding a service

to the public means you don't get to choose who you provide the service

too. Let's take that direct question from a teacher. There is a child who

identifies as gay and woody teacher have a right to say, sorry, I'm not

teaching that child? That is not a fair and analogy. It's very, very

clear. Ashers was not refusing to serve Gareth Lee because he was gay.

It was simply about the message. Of course, a teacher should have a

right to refuse to teach a pupil. What if that pupil... OK, fair

enough. What if the people any teacher's classroom said, sir, I

want is my essay for this week to write an essay about why gay

marriage is a great thing in Northern Ireland. Busy teacher have

a right to say sorry, that's against my religious beliefs. He will not do

that McGlashan. I don't think the issue has ever came up. This is a

teacher asking the question. There already is provision in schools for

people for example parents of children who want them exempted from

whatever is, worship or whatever, but all they do they go to the

principal teacher and said I would prefer that my tale is excused and

they are excused. Again, that is because we have an overriding

principle... The teachers are not exempt. There is no law in Northern

Ireland. You've turned the question on its head. The question was about

what the teacher's response would have to be in the teacher is the

provider of the service would have to allow the tail to write the

essay, submitted an market whatever they may think about it. Go sir.

Basically in 2012 in Colorado, there was a Christian beaker there who had

a similar case brought against him and two years later on, the scene

but she is part than Northern Ireland. If the equality commission

was so far on Vicky Wright and cheering everyone equal, why can

they have marriage in England, Wales, Scotland and Southern

Ireland, why isn't there a commission taken the assembly to

court and the determination on gay marriage? The majority of people in

the assembly voted for gay marriage here in Northern Ireland and the GDP

decided that they would threaten to use a petition to block it. It

depends on which occasion you're referring to. On a number of

occasions... The assembly voted by a majority on a number of occasions

not to proceed. And despite using the petition of concern it would

have been one anyway on those occasions. Absolutely. It's been

voted on and on a number of occasions. What you're trying to say

is that the tide is turning. No doubt it will come up again. Are you

trying to see the most recent Wood is an relevant? So you go to the

next would? I said it's been voted on on a number of occasions. Joining

us from the SDLP in our studio, Mark, I've seen the comments coming

into the radio show and there is genuine division in our country will

reverse around people being forced against their will to deliver a

service. Those people, no one is handing them money. They get up out

of bed, create a business, create employment and then the are forced

to do something against their will. Absolutely, they do. There is huge

division about this issue and the opinion that matters, it's not minor

Naomi's, it's the opinion of the court and the court has now given

that opinion again. Don't get me wrong, free expression and political

expression is a cornerstone of our democracy and we do everything to do

that. It doesn't seem to apply to Ashers, does that? This case was

about equality. This judgment is in necessary fortification of air

quality framework. We do welcome it in that respect and people know that

they can go into the business for it advertises a service and they can

expect to get that service regardless of their own political

views, provided their views themselves don't break the law. This

has much wider implications than just political and religious issues.

This is Government overreach. It's going to fire and telling business

owners that you don't have a right of choice here. You do exactly what

we tell you to do. There is no conscience clause. They can't

disagree. Like Doctor Michael, the head of the equality commission on

Monday, he was giving the example of the flag seller on the whether they

would sell Unionist flags, if somebody came in and unions flags

went available, could they be taken to court? He could have provided

clarity about that but he actually did not. It was clear that he is

just as confused by the consequences of this court decision as everyone

else. He said he couldn't offer advice. Someone can be forced to

provide a product or a service that they don't already provide. They

can't go into flag shop and say, do you provide tricolours? Well, I

demand tricolours. You can't demand that. The only thing they're

required to do is not discriminate. No one is being forced to do

anything. The Ashers bakery where in existence first 15 years. I presume

there are policies didn't change in the chorus of those 15 years. It

wasn't until the equality commission entered the arena after Gareth Lee

had gone to the equality commission that they were then... How were a

forced to do anything? They haven't made the cake, they're not going to.

Called an! No one is being forced to produce material or to ice things on

cakes that they don't want to eyes but what they cannot do... They are

having to withdraw products and services. Very quickly. Gregory said

there was extensions and schools are people that believe in things. We

are going to move on. Very quickly, Mark.

Gregory was working in a bakery and I asked him to take me a Glasgow

Celtic cake congratulating him on their latest league victory, how

would he feel about that? I don't think it is a life changing or moral

issue. Footballers and life changing? It is important but not

life changing and people do not establish a moral code with it.

It was a big day at Stormont yesterday, the Health Minister

Michelle O'Neill spelt out her ten-year vision for how she's

She's described it as "breaking point".

She is going to get you off it as quickly as possible.

It is a good news day, a fresh start for the health service, we have an

executive endorsement for a strategic plan for the next ten

years. There is no quick fix for the problems we have in the health

service but what I set out is a direction of travel, a vision for

delivering outcomes. I'm delighted it has been endorsed. It is the

first time we have seen a plan for delivering transformation in the

health service which the executive has fully endorsed. You have one

sentence about your actions as to waiting lists. Develop a

comprehensive approach to waiting lists. It is a longer term solution

to waiting lists, one of the biggest challenges we have. There are two

aspects. One is short-term, one is long-term. In the short-term,

additional investment, alongside that we have to buy in services from

independent sector. Not where I want to be but I will go there to make

sure patients are seen in a timely manner. In terms of short-term

action, will the money be derived from recurring funding or from the

monetary amount? Mixture's budget. -- next year. Then you're doing

nothing from now until next year. Iron engaging with staff daily and

they're depressed at the attention waiting lists get because the health

service is... What are you doing in November and December? We need to

make sure the health service is up to full capacity. Are you investing

single penny of extra money to waiting lists before next budget? I

am actively doing everything I possibly can to bring down waiting

lists. How much more? We had ?40 million and it is still going

through the system. We have extra clinics, we have brought in private

sector services. We have to have the whole system transformed. The

private sector money is gone. We have in-house services and buying in

external services. What is your target for reducing? We have to

tackle the root causes and transform the health service to mature people

are supported in communities. We will increase the number of GPs,

nurses by 100, GPs by 26, named district health visitors, social

workers and nurses working with GP surgeries. And your target for year

one? This will transform the health and social care system. We have a

21st-century service. I am asking what you're going to deliver. You

would like me to change everything tomorrow morning. I didn't mention

tomorrow morning I said in one year. We have done a significant body of

work and I have said I will publish a plan over the next five years to

change... In January you're going to publish another plan? Do you have a

target? I have a target that I will produce a report... I have a target

in the report that says we will reduce waiting lists incrementally

over the next five years. How much? Incrementally. Which means over a

certain year to reach a target. When I just the plan in January I am

happy to come back. So another plan. We have many reports. Which is why I

am pushing your little today. This is the fourth report. There is

fatigue in the system of reports. This shows we have a plan for the

next ten years and I think it is as significant itself. This will be a

long incremental change. I set out 18 point two deliver in year one

that shows we are going to design services. I just told you about

waiting lists. If you're waiting to be seen by the health service. You

might be thinking at home at least she has set a target of 10% and then

if they hear the word incremental they will think you're going to

reduce it further. Your focus on one area of the health service. You have

no target on waiting lists. Waiting lists are unacceptable and I will do

everything in my part. Is it costed? Yes. It points to how to redesign

the health service in future, working with patients, staff. We are

going to make sure that I set out how I am going to do it. What did

the total cost of the visions? There is an executive process. That

executive process would release the money. What is the total cost of

your vision? I would go through the process with the executive first.

Hospitals in Northern Ireland, you're saying you're going to pass

the decision-making on as to whether services should be centralised. In

the public have more confidence knowing clinicians are involved in

decisions. Will they make the decisions? They will make

recommendations. I am going to show political leadership year. This is a

time and they have to deliver better outcomes. If we keep doing things

the way we are... Is a 90% of the current budget? Everything will

change with inflation so it is 90% of the block grant. If the medical

profession say cancer services should be centralised in one

hospital, do you all the right to overrule them? I have to listen to

clinicians but take decisions guided by that. I have had so many

difficult decisions as a health minister but I will do it if it

delivers better health. I am here to make a difference. Health services

out of date and cannot deliver and waiting lists are a symptom of a

poor system. Promise people what you will reduce waiting lists by in the

first year. I promise I will transfer... Transform the health

service for the better. I will bring down waiting lists. She has a ten

year vision for everyone. Did you take out of that interview,

genuinely open question, that they have got a plan for short-term

planning? Some people have been sitting on a waiting list for one or

two years and they contact me and say we are desperate. We have no

money for the independent sector and we cannot get seen. I think there

are a couple of things. First of all, in terms of investment in the

longer term, I think if the health minister does what she said then it

is a good thing and she will have my support and that of the party in

doing it because difficult decisions need to be made and it is more

important that we have the best possible service available to people

than necessarily where we actually deliver. We have to front-load the

system so fewer people get sick in the first place, so it means

investing in GPs, counselling, health professionals, and then

dealing with issues of when people do get sick and to hospital so they

have the best possible care. Dalston and is party representative -- the

Ulster Unionist Party representative said he would be against

centralising services so what they are essentially saying as part of

this plan is if you take a heart attack or a stroke then the evidence

is it would be better for you to pass some local hospitals and go to

a hospital where there is specialist service. Why is it controversial? It

means you're passing your local hospital and some people want to

keep their local hospital open and some politicians get my cards saying

we want to save our local hospital, even if the outcome for you and your

family might be worse. This is a game changer and you support

centralising acute services like heart and stroke? Yes. If I was

going to be admitted to hospital for a heart attack or a stroke then my

focus wouldn't be on how many miles I spent in the ambulance but on what

my long-term health outcome is going to be invented and if I will get

better treatment by going an extra few miles then that is a better

outcome. The placard stuff, you are right. It is easy to play games like

this. But you wouldn't be serving the public who elect to. Gregory,

there is something confusing me and it is because of a phone call I got

a few hours before we came on air and it is this. It has been

suggested that the health minister has not bid for any extra money for

the October monitoring round. In terms of dealing with waiting lists.

Why is that significant? Simon Hamilton in your party last year

fought for and got ?40 million to deal with waiting lists. This year

and Michelle O'Neill has not got a single penny in the monitoring round

to deal with waiting lists. They got it .7 million for essential

maintenance and the purchase of ambulance to February to us --

defibrillators. You would need to know what the health service budget

is at the moment and whether or not she needs to apply for monitoring

round money. She needs money for the health service, big-money, but the

point is I don't know and I don't think you know either what the

internal debate is within the health service about the best way to

allocate the money. Why is she not asking for money? Why didn't you ask

her. She is the health minister and you didn't ask in the interview and

now you're asking me? Yes, you're the government. Do you think she

should have asked for money? I think she should ensure and do our best to

ensure that waiting lists are reduced and that means applying for

monitoring round money then she should but I don't know what her

budgetary arrangements are like. Waiting lists are going through the

roof and the people who voted for you in your constituency are sitting

on a waiting list for six, nine, 12 months. Why did she ask for money? I

don't know and we need to find out and you needed to find out

yesterday. We need clarification. It is serious and I will tell you why

in a second. It has been suggested tonight that Michelle O'Neill may

get money in January so there is big-money that they get every year

to handle her budget and then extra money, the monitoring round, extra

money that they get because money taken from other departments and not

spent and they give it to where there is a priority. It has been

suggested that she will get money if she asks for it in January. Why is

that interesting? Lots of questions will be asked about this. With that

money, they have got to spend it by the end of March. What did Simon

Hamilton have to do last year? He got 40 million. He couldn't spend

the whole thing, he spent 25 and 15 went elsewhere. But they're not

asking for it now and if they ask in January they are two months further

down the line of asking for it than last year. Is that not concerning?

How are they going to spend this money in January?

You're assuming she will bid for a 60 million in January by which then

she has two months to spend it. I don't know if the case. The only

person who knows is the health minister. Exactly. Gregory has hit

the nail on the head perhaps inadvertently because the committee

that scrutinises the health ministers should have access to the

monitoring rounds should be able to see what the Minister has bid for,

should be able to see Freddy pressures in system are. But also to

support the Minister if she has a genuine pressure, the committee is

there to advise and support the Minister as well as hold her to

account. Since the DUP Sinn Fein have gone into Government on their

own, it was monitoring rounds have come to us. Martin McGuinness said

in the chamber when I asked him what happened with the monitoring round

that we would get that information. We would definitely get them in

October but we haven't and there already been the statement in the

chamber that the monitoring rounds... The health committee has

not been able to have this discussion with the health minister

it so that they can have this discussion with you because it's

your money, it's your health service and you should know what's going on.

I know when you start hearing about monitoring rounds you probably fall

asleep but here is what is so important. If you are setting and

you've been waiting a year and you're in pain, you don't know last

October, you knew that Simon Hamilton fought for ?40 million to

tackle waiting lists there and then, Michelle O'Neill has not got one

extra penny as we sit here to tackle waiting lists next month. Not one

extra penny or indeed in December and why is she waiting until

January? We don't even know what she's going to ask for in January.

Because the waiting for a plan, is that it? I don't know but I'll tell

you what, there will be lots of people asking her tomorrow on behalf

of every person in this country sitting on a waiting list. I'm going

to come from this from the perspective of cancer. If you're any

waiting list and you have a suspect to cancer, this is a

life-threatening situation. The sooner it is found and dealt with,

the much better your prognosis is. The stats have now changed, half of

us will have cancer, it is fast becoming Northern Ireland's biggest

killer and I'm disappointed in Michelle O'Neill not addressing what

is possibly going to be Northern Ireland's biggest killer at all

specifically. That's not fair because she very much has a big plan

of things to do. For example, I will show you. She doesn't have targets

for costings in this document around waiting times. But have a look at

this, what she does have. She has basically promised in terms of

things that she's actually to achieve and his bit dates beside

them. That is the wrong clip. That's her ministerial targets. I will read

it out when I find it in this document. She's essentially promised

in March of next year... She has picked time frames around

that type of stuff, around doctors. That's not the cancer strategy that

I assume the lady who asked the question would like to see brought

forward. It's not a thing the health minister has done nothing but in

terms of the cancer strategy it is really important there is a proper

strategy in place to deal with this right from the moment where somebody

get a red flag at the GP, right through to the point where they get

treatment and that strategy needs to be in place because people need to

be trained in terms of specialisms and doctors and GPs need to be

trained in terms of how to actually diagnose. We are in danger of

agreement with each other here. In terms of the health professionals,

if they come to the health Department and the executive and

there is a broad consensus that there does need to be change, in

terms of the long term, there are short-term issues and pressures that

have to be dealt with, but I looked at the figures earlier on today. 15

years ago at the century, one third of a smaller brock brand was going

to health, now 50% of a larger grant is going to health and I presumed

that is why the minister came out with the figure from the report

which says if we go on with this, it will be 90%. There would be no money

for roads, education, for all the other departments that the right. We

need an analysis from the professionals. You've had it and

she's had four weeks, months. We now need to see it implemented and we

need to ensure there is a political consensus behind that. I agree with

Gregory and he is right. If the minister is willing to take those

tough decisions, we're not going to play political football with this.

It's far too serious an issue. Here's my concern. We sat in the

chamber yesterday while the justice minister talked about not losing

court rooms. Most of us in here and never want to be inside a courthouse

in our lives if we can avoid it. But she wasn't willing to do that to

save ?1.1 million is adjusted budget to then be able to spend that on

delivery of the Justice service because it was an decision. If that

same approach is taken with respect and hospitals then we are in real

trouble. If the same populism we have seen with hospitals which we

will all end up on at some point in our lives if that approach is taken,

we will not do the reform that we need. You were on the waiting list?

Yes. How long are you waiting? A year very hacked joint. Arguing

pain? Yes. We were told we would be called in October, then he has been

bumped down the list by eight months to October 20 17. How does that

feel? It's unbelievable. It's a waste of money. They haven't reduced

waiting lists. You are the type of case I am talking about that these

questions and bring into the public debate tonight. You are exactly a

case. You are now being told that you are going to have to wait until

October 20 17. Why is the Minister not fighting right now, like Simon

Hamilton dead, for that extra money that would pool waiting lists down?

Why is she not doing that for people like you? I don't know. He is an

urgent case. Why and half weeks of the bumped from March 2017 to

October 20 17. He should be getting bumped down the list. It's a concern

for anybody else join in a list. What does it feel like having to

keep being pushed down that list List I feel very sick. Very sick

indeed. Hold on, with respect. Take your time, I want you to take your

time. I conceive what it means to you. What would it mean to you if

you got treated? It would mean a whole lot to me. When you listen to

what you said, you can be touched by it. The problem that we have in the

health service is the multiplication of problems, elongate in the waiting

time. You've outlined exactly what happened. You thought you were going

to get the procedure done this month. And then early next year and

there it could be this time next year. We have to try and develop a

better way of doing this so that waiting time, if it's not

eliminated, is shortened rather than keep getting longer as more and more

people are joining the waiting list. Still here, Stephen. What's your

reaction to this? We gave a cautious welcome to the statement and the

review Mac. It's fair to say we drew some criticism from the Government

because we weren't doing cartwheels at the launch of this report. I

think that position is being vindicated today and will be

vindicated as we go forward. I have no problems with what is in the

report. Some of the improvements that will be carried out, some are

very necessary improvements that will improve patients. Our problems

are with what isn't there. There is a distinct lack of detail. Are you

surprised the are not fighting for and announcing money right now for

waiting lists like they did last year? I am surprised and

disappointed that someone made that phone call to you today to bring

that teacher attention because those are point I was hoping to make

tonight. We have the whole palaver worked Simon Hamilton last year.

Around the fact that she hadn't got money in this monitoring rate

despite the fact that she says in that interview that she did need

additional investment, she needed to get money. Hello. What's your

reaction to this? The impact on cancer patients is that lady said

someone who thinks they have cancer and on a waiting list the anxiety

grows and grows for the family and them and it is very worrying. We do

want fewer people to get cancer and those who do, we want the best

possible outcomes that we are disappointed. I like the direction

of the Bengoa. It is the clear targets and the accountability that

we are looking for. We suggested they should be a transformation

panel. We can hold the Minister to account politically and also with

those who work in the service so we can actually see the progress being

made. OK. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you. We promise we

will pick up a lot of the questions we've been asking tomorrow morning.

We started the show with a row over a cake.

And there could be more rows over cake and who deserved to win

Local star Andrew Smyth from Holywood was in the final earlier.

But there was no icing on the cake for him,

But it was still an incredible achievement to make the final.

Let's have a look at some of his highlights.

You're nervous about anything that small thing that goes wrong could be

your last day in the tent. That's a really nice cake.

Congratulations, Andrew. You are a star Baker. OK. That was the big

show tonight. That was a big show tonight,

but before we go we have a real He will be back in Northern Ireland

next month for four shows, But singing us out with his number

one hit Is This The Way To Amarillo, # When the day is dawning

on a Texas Sunday morning # With Marie who's

waiting for me there # Every lonely city

where I hang my hat # Ain't as half as pretty

as where my baby's at # Every night I've

been hugging my pillow # Dreaming dreams of Amarillo

and sweet Marie who waits for me # Show me the way to Amarillo,

I've been weeping like a willow # Crying over Amarillo and sweet

Marie who waits for me # Hear the song of joy

that it's singing # For the sweet Maria and the guy

who's coming to see her # Just beyond the highway,

there's an open plain # And it keeps me going

through the wind and rain # Every night I've

been hugging my pillow # Dreaming dreams of Amarillo

and sweet Marie who waits for me # Show me the way to Amarillo,

I've been weeping like a willow # Crying over Amarillo and sweet

Marie who waits for me # And Marie who waits for me.