Episode 3 Nolan Live

Well, a whole lot to talk about after the election.

What compromises do you think the big two parties should

So much to discuss tonight cos we have stalemate, don't we?

There's this fundamental sticking point to get past -

Will DUP insist Arlene remains as First Minister

or will Sinn Fein get their way and make her step aside?

What do you think? I believe Arlene Foster should do the honourable

thing and be accountable for what she was in charge of and do the

honourable thing and step aside for the temporary period of the enquiry.

She stood at the election and she got 225,000 votes. People were

voting as a protest to keep the others out. It wasn't on real

issues. And let's just remind ourselves

how Sinn Fein reacted when their leader was under threat -

this from when Gerry Adams DUP and the largest party, Sinn Fein

and the second party and Arlene Foster has the biggest mandate and

Sinn Fein should stop playing political games and get on the job

of governing because that is what we want, we don't want these talks, we

want the Executive back. They're trying to dictate to the designated

person will be? I think is disgrace. When we first came back to power in

2007 at two people to swallow their pride and we need that same attitude

people come together and just hit back to governing the country and

get jobs and going and just get the country back on its feet. We know

Well, we know the results were on a knife edge.

We have BBC Ireland Correspondent Chris Buckler with us in studio

it's worth remembering how will the two big parties did in the

selection. If we take a look at the first preference vote share, the DUP

really coming top of the heap with 21% just behind them as Sinn Fein,

so very close. These are the first preference votes, Sinn Fein just

1000 behind. The last in the DUP was 35,000 votes in front, just to just

over 1000, that is a huge difference. At the end of the day

they have more seats and shots than Sinn Fein so can the dictate to the

DUP who they want as their First Minister? They don't have more

seats, they have one more seat and I think the issue is that if Arlene

was when to step aside she should have done so at Christmas and we

wouldn't have needed an election, and I think the DUP RNA very

difficult position because they have tried to see this entire scandal

about Arlene as their leader and I think to capitulate now to Sinn Fein

would look very bad. They could possibly keep her as party leader

and nominate someone else as First Minister to get over the talks

process but I think at this point the DUP RNA cul-de-sac, do they go

back into power share and really keep on with the stance that Clinton

hasn't worked for them. As it's not Sinn Fein also in a cul-de-sac Riske

the see how they have protected their leaders. We were talking about

this on the radio today, Conor Murphy questioned the integrity of

the tribunal. When Gerry Adams was arrested Sinn Fein didn't say we

will honour the police investigation, according to

political policing. We saw that clip. It doesn't just Sinn Fein

calling for a limited step aside, all the other parties have two and

even in the middle ground. We have said it would be preferable if she

hadn't so I don't think she has the support of the other Unionist party

or the middle ground. At this point in time Sinn Fein are in quite a

leisurely as position because it doesn't matter to them when they go

into this talks process, they have a huge mandate and the support of the

nationalist population. Do you feel a responsibility to stand up for the

Unionist Arlene Foster? I am no fan of the DUP but the way Sinn Fein

have conducted themselves and try to dictate to Arlene Foster, I don't

think she should be pushed about dictated to by Sinn Fein. What will

see to the community of the DUP do that? If Arlene Foster steps aside

after a disastrous election for unionism it will be unbelievably

embarrassing for Arlene Foster and the DUP added for see a lot about

the strength of the DUP an epic Arlene Foster should stand her

ground and I would say to Arlene Foster do not be pushed about and

stand your ground. If she stands her ground that isn't going to be a

Government. It is not going to be a Government that would be a

Government. Sinn Fein catfish around a democratic elected leader. Who is

Sinn Fein to say otherwise? The one good thing to promote the election

was DUP lost the condition of concern and a lot of parties went

into the election for progress and a quality so I think it is an

opportunity for an active push by all parties on gay marriage. I want

to stick at the top of the show about this fundamental conundrum

that the currently has, that isn't going to be a Government unless Sinn

Fein or the DUP and blink or Arlene Foster. What should they do? I have

never seen arrogance more than Arlene Foster, all parties are

asking for have to step down and she would, she is jeopardising the

health service, there is no budget going through, she is putting people

of Northern Ireland on the line because she wants to keep her post.

Or Sinn Fein are? If Sinn Fein except they can put in the

candidates to that first office and the DUP can put candidate and, they

might be a Government. It has been an all-party consensus across the

board, it has been at Green and orange and yellow and all different

colours, asking for Arlene Foster to step aside and she would that is the

definition of arrogance. APPLAUSE

This election has not unionism for six. People are reeling and Rene

look at the reaction it shouldn't have knocked them for six because

the numbers and the last ten years haven't really changed that much in

terms of the share of the vote, nationalism was slightly ahead than

it is known and given that has been a democratic change and the Catholic

population has edged up, the seats are much closer and this is what has

really got people. This is to do with transfers and people are not

necessarily transferring from the SDLP and the towards the extremes,

not pretty moderate, but further Arlene should stand aside, the

factions feed have made that almost the primary goal makes that very

difficult. Do you think she should stand aside? We never asked have to

stand aside, we have been leading the coverage of RHI for a

comprehensive enquiry that could compel documents and witnesses but

we never called for her to stand aside, it might have been a clever

thing to do before the election that is gone. I note no one in my year

group who would vote DUP and speaking as someone who is Unionist,

I would vote DUP. 225,000 people dead. -- did. Arlene Foster turns

off a great deal of young people from voting Unionist,. She is

leading the party with the biggest number of seats and Northern

Ireland. They should have got 33 seats that the 90 and they have lost

five. It's a big vote for the DUP, 225,000 as we say and Arlene Foster

can take credit for that. That is the best result they have had and a

modern assembly election but she perhaps you should take

responsibility for some of the Sinn Fein vote coming out as well. Let's

break down the vote can take a look at it because it has been a change

and if the DUP are down more than one percentage point, on the other

hand Sinn Fein are almost four percentage points to stop all that

please and to the changes that you will see a storm Stormont and the

successes that into that as well. If you break it down to Unionist and

nationalist, they needed 46 for two get a majority and sits dormant and

neither Unionist nonnationals to manage to do that and they have

dropped from a majority to just 40, just one seat more. Who has the

momentum? The momentum is with the Nationalists. The election reflects

a change in Northern Ireland which hasn't been apparent for the past

six or seven years and Nationalists when voting. Who is a greater threat

to the union? Yes, Arlene Foster didn't deliver the DUP Boss best

vote but she delivered nationalism in the best ever vote in the north

of Ireland. You don't know that Arlene Foster deliver that. That

could have been people responding to Sinn Fein. We need to compare it to

the election took place only ten months ago when Arlene Foster was

returned with 36, Sinn Fein and the SDLP delivered the worst collective

performance and the assembly election error and within ten months

because of the reaction to the RHI scandal, but provided a considerable

motivating factor to drive Nationalists out to the point we are

now seeing we are talking about an age of minorities when unionism has

been reduced to being alongside nationalism as a minority. What

right has Sinn Fein got to bang Arlene Foster from being the First

Minister of this country? -- ban. It was very obvious when the RHI

scandal was in fun folding they thought a deal could be worked out

when Arlene Foster would stand aside for a number of weeks. Which Sinn

Fein minister has ever stood aside? Is that not inconsistent? There

hasn't been. We're talking about a scandal. And December Sinn Fein are

doing everything they could to protect Arlene Foster's position.

What happened after that was a serious of disaster decisions by the

DUP and I think that point in time that was when Fein with through and

that was when having proper Foster problems started. Would the DUP, and

a hypothetical situation, be entitled to say to Sinn Fein, we are

not going into Government with you for as long as Gerry Adams remains

you president? He makes some of the people and our community

uncomfortable. We have watched him carry the coffin of a bomber of a

man who killed Would it be fair enough for the DUP to say while he

is the Sinn Fein president, no Government? They are banning Arlene

Foster. Not for something that has happened in the past, and they are

not really banning, Stephen? -- Stephen... They are saying we will

not go into Government for as long as they -- she is there. Is in the

mood of the Unionist audience? This has been the worst performance of

unionism in the history of the state. So I think Sinn Fein's in a

strong position, they can allow Arlene Foster to remain as leader

and still gain a strong position, because she still isn't clearly

delivering. This all goes back to the Belfast agreement, because when

you have an institutionalised system, why is anybody surprised

when we have stand-offs? Ten years of Government though, Jamie. It

absolutely no surprise to me that it will implode eventually. So you were

preferred direct role? In a macro given a choice between what we have

now, or have perhaps the most right wing Government since Maggie

Thatcher, I would probably accept that. There is going to be pain,

wherever unionism goes. For socially conservative unionists in terms of

same-sex marriage and other things, but there is good to be paid

whichever way. Man in the front row. . -- if this happened anywhere else

in the UK, the minister responsible, for that much money going down the

drain or up in smoke in this case, would have been suspended on the

spot. Why do you think she got so many votes, then? People

disillusioned with the way things are, because they are saying, like,

if you don't vote for us, you are going to get Sinn Fein in. Arlene

Foster should step aside for a while anyway. And then the whole lot of

them should get together and run the country as they are supposed to do,

for the public. The DUP says yes, Sinn Fein says no. And that's been

going on for 20 years. And you are sick of it? And we are getting sick

of it. Let's have a proper system of Government, then. Unionism's really

going to have to work on its image. This has been a problem of unionism,

probably something to do with the mentality of Ulster prostitutes

going back centuries. -- Protestants. Sinn Fein can be

extraordinarily intransigent, but is very good at charming people. Look

at the point you made, it wasn't even conceivable that the DUP would

have made that the man of Gerry Adams. Even the legacy has moved on

to what Sinn Fein is saying, unionists haven't done that. I think

unionists made a huge mistake in not saying, let's have a public inquiry

into the IRA. Bloody Sunday, ?200 million. ?500 million into the IRA,

they never did something like that. They wouldn't have got that, but it

would have moved the letter here, under negotiation would have come

back somewhere in between. So unionists have to be more charming,

because everybody thinks they only say no, and the need to expose Sinn

Fein 's intransigence. There is a situation at the moment with the big

parties locked away discussing the whole options of what to do next.

And all of the different permutations that there could be.

Chris, lay out some of those options. There could be yet more

talking. We mention just how many disagreements there are between the

DUP and Sinn Fein. You can see Sinn Fein talking about a lot of things.

Things that you could argue could be red lines for them. Legacies become

a very -- legacy's become an important one today, and perhaps

also Arlene Foster stepping aside the most important of all. During

the campaign they said no Irish language act at any particular time.

Now, they could need to be a emergency legislation to hold off

another election, but frankly that is option number two. James broken

shower might have to come in and call for yet another vote if they

cannot come to an agreement. That is a potentially costly option Semicon

on the election last year cost about ?5 million. He has to call one

within a reasonable period of time, so perhaps the talks could continue.

There is a third option, of course, and that is going to do -- direct

rule. Basically Westminster takes over Government here, and there

might be some viewers who think the potential savings of that might be

attractive, because if you were to get rid of the Assembly, you would

have a ?25 million saving, including the MLAs, and once you include their

constituency costs, running the offices and their constituency

staff, that runs to about ?43 million. But the reality is that

would mean that London were making decisions, not people in Northern

Ireland, and that might not work out well for us at all. So that is

something the politicians we want to avoid. Which brings us to the next

option, they will be forced into some sort of a deal. But that

depends on the DUP and Sinn Fein coming together to agree they can

have a first and a Deputy First Minister from those parties, or it

could also mean that potentially you could have a joint office of First

Minister. Those are all options, it will all depend on the negotiations.

If they get past the Arlene Foster issue, then they've got to do some

type of deal on Irish language? Arlene Foster said she -- it is

never happening under her watch. I think that was the one she probably

regrets the most, that crocodile, backfired so badly. Sinn Fein took

ownership of that comment, the crocodile became the outfit of the

election. As thick with hindsight I don't think she would have made

those comments been as hard line. Because that motivated young

nationalists to get out and vote. But the DUP said an Irish language

act will never happen under Arlene Foster's watch. The DUP will have to

point -- I think it was before they went into Government they said there

would never be a coalition with Sinn Fein, and here we are. But I think

the challenge for the DUP is limited to energise a generation in working

class loyalist areas. I think many sections of working time unionism

and loyalism have been left behind by the peace process. And I think

the challenge for the DUP and unionism in general is to go into

those communities, and energise those communities. And give them a

vision going forward. How angry is loyalism? Well, Stephen, a lot of

people within loyalism feel they have been left out in the process

for a lot of years. But I think the election result was a wake-up call

for unionism. I believe that we lost 16 out of a possible 18 votes --

seats. So I think Arlene Foster, then is to be a role good look at

how the unionist parties are developing. The Ulster Unionists,

one of the things was "Country before party". I would link -- like

to think within Unison, we need to have a good look at how we have got

five or six political parties going into elections... But do you want to

see the DUP, in order to get devolution up and going again, do

you think that they should be optimising, and at the end of the

day, buckling to some of these Sinn Fein demands, Sinn Fein using the

word demand, not me. Or do you think they need to stand up to Sinn Fein?

What is better for this country. Personally, there are two ways of

looking at it as far as I am concerned. As a unionist and a

loyalist I don't like being dictated to by anyone. Immaterial of -- of

who it is. But Sinn Fein are laying red lines down for a party that has

been elected as the largest party. They've made the pounds about Sinn

Fein. -- you have made the points. People within the DUP and UUP and

loyalism, have had to sit down with people who previously were engaged

in the murder of their people. And vice versa. But there is very few

loyalists in there, representing the political arena. The whole point of

it is, Sinn Fein have dug their heels in. And loyalism and unionism

do not want to give in to what their demands are. Because they destroyed

this country and the fabric of this country for years, and there was a

guy on your programme the other morning said, loyalism and unionism

cannot be dictated to by Sinn Fein, in telling us who we should have as

our First Minister. But if you continue with that threat, there is

not going to be a Government here. That is direct rule. But that would

be the making of Sinn Fein, not the DUP. Their choice is either to back

off and let Arlene Foster... Are you not angry about the money wasted

under our age I? -- the renewable heat initiative? Wire, as I said the

other morning, why would you want to deal with somebody before the fat

instead of after-the-fact? -- the fact. If anybody else is proven to

be guilty, they can be dealt with. What is Sinn Fein about? Is this

then trying to play to their electorate, and tried to play to

their constituency, to prove to them they have control over a section of

unionism? Lady here. You all talk about Orange versus green, but Sinn

Fein have tried to reach out to the other side of the community. Martin

McGuinness met the Queen. What have the DUP done? Arlene Foster referred

to Irish speakers as crocodiles. Gregory Campbell stood in storm

years ago there and basically mock the language. How can they represent

me as a young Irish nationalist? Sinn Fein are exceptional at making

grand gestures. And some people are foolish enough to believe that they

make these reconciliation gestures because they actually have woken up

one day and decided what we did was wrong, we want to make peace. They

make them because this is the next phase of struggle for them. So I do

not buy this gestures, they are all about seeking to advance political

aims under the cloak of equality. I have to disagree with that. One of

the things unionism -- republicanism -- republicanism has, is the

solution that you do makes gestures. It is all about educating and

bringing along your own community, Martin McGuinness meeting the

British Queen and other things, I can recall him introducing -- saying

that to this man, this is the city of Londonderry. Now, I can't imagine

a DUP minister bringing in -- saying, you have to respect that

this is what the city is called. That is important. I think some of

the discussion we've had to write about some of the Contra misers,

one, but Chris referred to, was the notion of moving from the First

Minister and Deputy fitness minister to join First Minister. We are 2000

runs away -- 2000 nationalists switching from SDLP to Sinn Fein.

Because of the two parties had had the same number of seats and Sinn

Fein had more votes. Sinn Fein would be claiming the First Minister.

That's where we are now. They are in deadlock now, and plan to get a

sense from all of you and from you at home actually through Twitter

etc, how much compromise do what these bodies to actually make? Lady

here in the red. -- these parties. I really think Arlene Foster should

step aside. If I was a DUP politician, I would be extremely

annoyed, no matter what I try to achieve as a minister. We are kind

of court in an Arlene Foster show. It is all about her at the moment.

She should show a bit of humility and step aside, and find... That is

a choice for the DUP and some people within unionism. Do they sacrifice

Arlene Foster? Or do they stand tall, beside her?

I think she should step aside. Gentleman talked about what unionism

needs to do and I think you need to show a bit of leadership and Arlene

should step aside. We spent the night talking about Sinn Fein and

DUP and I don't see how we can ever expect this country to move forward

with neither party wants to work with each other. We needed to go

with something else, everyone knew schools and hospitals, we need to

stop orange and green and of those are the two parties that are

standing up their meat to change it and vote differently for the next

generation. Chris, is a deal possible or are they farther apart

since the result? They are having conversations to work out where each

understands but we don't know whether there will be a deal for

another couple of weeks. It could be a year? We are talking about the

savings of direct rule but the reality has those are people out of

a job and other people out of a job and that is not good for anybody.

They are going to have to be uncomfortable compromises because

the reality is that sort of this audiences about the votes, the DUP

and Sinn Fein came out in bigger numbers to support those parties,

they now have a responsibility upon them to be an imposition position

where they actually do the job and get a deal and get back into

Government. I want to hear more voices from the audience. She

militates shows a great source of strength and we don't care what

party will shortly bet of humility but what we have to think about is

the people who are suffering and you said it could be a year, many people

here don't have a year or even a week, we are survival is of

institutional abuse and waited for a lifetime on the results of the

historical institutional abuse enquiry and they are still make you

any Government and no sign of anyone getting together for the RHI

redress. I don't see why Arlene Foster should step down. People

voted for and because they wanted her, she has done anything, one

mistake and they haven't even proved it. There are other people involved

as well. They are laughing because that is the way Northern Ireland is

but I think honestly that the us it is orange and green at the end of

the day, Arlene Foster as a reader and that is to be packed and voted

for. Sinn Fein and tolerating her? We didn't want to tolerate Martin

McGuinness but we did. Sinn Fein are telling you that you will not have a

Government in Northern Ireland if Arlene Foster as First Minister. It

doesn't matter if it is one vote, we are still there. OK. It's an

interesting way to end that and you will continue talking about it on

twitter tonight as well. Now, my next guest is

a remarkable young woman Vicky Balch was having a fun day

out with her boyfriend in Alton Towers theme park,

when tragedy struck - leaving her in hospital facing

the amputation of one of her legs. Let's remind ourselves

of what happened that day. For people are seriously injured in

a roller-coaster crash at Alton Towers. It should trash and it could

have been travelling at speeds of 50 mph. Two carriages have collided and

trapped on a stretch of track well emergency crews build a platform.

Please welcome Vicky Balch. APPLAUSE

It is quite an iconic image that because I remembered on television

and could you come a little closer into the light. It is interesting

that it touched a chord with me because lots of us have been on

those fun raids and we have a notion in the back cover header that

something can go wrong and we're not going anywhere near them. Were you

ever frightened of them? I loved the adrenaline and doing things like

that but I had never thought anything would ever go wrong because

it doesn't happen to you or anyone you know. What was the moment when

you realised? Well I was in a queue, I had a funny feeling and was very

uncomfortable and I don't get scared for these rates usually so I just

felt very uncomfortable, something that I knew wasn't quite right and

we got on and off the right multiple times and we were at the top of the

first hill why? Something was happening on the rate and they were

reducing acute aims. Can you still remember the time where you knew you

were in trouble? I remember everything. What I think was

everything, I remember the pain of it first leading into her legs and I

passed out for a short time and remember swaying and waiting for

someone to come out. It was horrible. Review and much pain and

was the adrenaline pumping through your body? I was in pain as soon as

we head to the other car, as soon as it went through my legs the pain was

and is favourable. Delete -- indescribable and a member holding

on for dear life. This has obviously been a life changing moment for you

and I guess that time and your life relies you are losing a leg, what

does your brain do? While I was on the right, I looked down and out

what is my life going to be known? I'm not going to be able to do

anything, they don't want to be here and I am in so much pain and an

hospital they tried to save my leg and I was in absolute agony saw this

little was taken. Did they discuss it with you? I was asking lots of

questions but I was so much medication that I was drifting in

and out and I would be falling asleep when people were speaking to

me. Did they ask you if they could take your leg? Because they tried

reconstructing my leg, if something went wrong they might have to

amputate but at a thought it wasn't going to happen and it just had to

warn me but in the end and infection went through to the bone and they

have to amputate. Just take away rather than weaken me up. Coming to

terms with that, a beautiful young woman loses her legs. I was very

obsessed but I would rather walk better than happy looking like a

real leg, it's not a real lake and I am proved of what I have been

through. And watching some of these rehab shots and is there much

training and rehearsing needed to learn how to walk on it? The legs

are different so I have a different leg now than then and you have to

learn to walk again and trust that leg. With that leg and that video I

was falling over all the time I was really hurting myself because of the

quality of the lake. -- leg. Did you lose any identity losing your leg?

Did you feel less beautiful,? I did. The first thing I said to my mum was

who is going to want me know. I'm not going to be able to do but I

used to do our live my life like I used to, who is going to want me. We

are now watching these pictures of you and very sexy situations where

you are putting yourself out there and saying this is me and a sexual

and beautiful woman, what made you take these? It was for my own

confidence especially because it's that boost my confidence because and

thought I would never look like I used to it and was a lot to do with

how society is, you need to act a certain way and need to look a

certain way and even growing up I believed that so I want to show that

it doesn't matter what you are doing. This is more than showing.

This is you literally putting yourself out there. I've had a lot

of really good response from this and I have had people saying that I

can go out and walk around town known and I don't make a skirt and

showing my leg and what I wanted to. You have had online abuse? People

said I was milking it and they said horrible nasty things but everyone

is going to have their opinion. If someone doesn't like it then it

would have to look at it. That is a confidence that is admirable but do

you really always feel like that you wobble Sundays? I have lot of

wobbles. Some days it just gets to me where I am just, if I am and a

low mood enemy then it gets to me a bit more but most of the time I just

laugh at him because some of the comments I have had a just

hilarious. You feel much resentment against those who were responsible

for your safety? It wasn't anyone's fault as such, it was to do with

training and different things like that so not at all. Would you get on

one again? Probably not. I don't like things to beat me but they

don't bother me. I think it is pretty amazing that you are not just

recovered from something like that but you send a message out to the

rest of us which is and I mean this, if you go through that it is so easy

to lie back and feel sorry for yourself, not only are you literally

standing up again, you are putting yourself in those photos to say this

is who I am, taking my clothes off, if you don't like it, I don't care,

I am a sexy woman and for that I think it is a very powerful message

and I am so glad you came here tonight. Thank you. With the

gentleman Vicky Balch. -- ladies and gentlemen.

as you probably know it's International Women's Day.

And earlier this week the House of Commons debated

whether the law needs to be changed

in relation to companies requiring female staff

after a petition was signed by more than 150,000 people.

We'll talk about that in just a second,

what the people on the streets of Belfast had to say

Is it all right for women to be told to wear to work? Noel, why should

they. I prefer to wear heels, I feel more feminine and then. I put up

with them being uncomfortable. If someone said woman looked more

glamorous and high heels, what would you say? I would say it was right

but whether you want to be glamorous and what our business, it depends. I

can see sometimes you might want women to wear high heels because

they are more attractive. There should be a stance to see what

employers can get away with telling women to do and what they can't and

I think it should be made illegal. Could Stephen Nolan pull off a pair

of high heels? He would be a wee bit top-heavy for that. He ought to try

walking up and down stairs and a pair of heels. At the difficult to

walk on? Yeah, you try it. I heard you all laughing about me

being top-heavy! Is that me being top-heavy up here? I wouldn't like

to say. Well, the woman who sparked

the controversy is Nicola Thorp - she was sent home from work

without pay for wearing flat shoes after being told she had

to wear 2-4 inch heels. So we told you, you do not wear high

heels, you are not getting paid? -- they told you. Yes, I turn up in

flat shoes, and they said you have to wear four inch heels or you do

not work here at all. Either go out and buy a pair, or the sending you

on your way. Did you wear high heels much, for fun or through your

choice? Yes, I wear them when I want to look attractive. That could be on

a night out, on a date, for an event, but not necessarily for work.

And how -- in what way did they tell you, wear them or else? They just

wouldn't let me go out on the floor. I pointed to a male colleague who

was wearing small, flat shoes, and said, you are not sending him home.

So this is a sexism issue. I question why they felt so

passionately about my footwear. She said, I cannot let you work, you

have to leave. So much out of the building. I love heels. But should

she be forced to wear them? Depending on the job. I have worn

heels all my life. And I love wearing them. I think they give a

nice look, and it is for yourself, you wear them for yourself. But the

discussion is not whether you like wearing them or not, it is whether

someone who doesn't want to wear them, should be forced to wear them.

If it is part of the dress code, in the workplace, then yes, I think you

need to wear them. I don't think employers should be allowed to

compel their staff to wear high heels. There is no equivalent with

men. Well, the BBC compels me to wear a suit. I cannot wear a shell

suit! There is nothing you are being compelled to wear that is

potentially painful for you. I am not against high heels... But they

are actually really bad for the body. They have been proved over and

over again to be bad for your back on your knees. If you want to wear

them, no bother, but there is no way an employer should be saying, you

have to wear these to do your job. But you are saying if it is part of

the dress code, tough? I think two to four inch heels is appropriate.

It's fine. I accept it! -- accept it!

I'm not going to try and debate how many inches makes you attractive.

Listen, I haven't dared to go above three inches! Look... No matter how

high the heel is, a heel is a heel. It is something that has been

designed in terms of women's fashion, to make you look more

attractive. It is symbolic of femininity. My argument was, why

would I need to wear something feminine in order to do a job that

was non-gender specific? You said when you want to feel attractive,

just educate me here. It is not my field of expertise. Wider high heels

make you sexy? There was someone in the office today, and I -- and they

said, apparently they raise a woman up and stick her bottom out. Is that

what they do? Me personally, I don't look like Jessica Rabbit, I look

more like a T Rex. That is why I do not choose to wear them. But yes,

there is something to be said for being a little bit taller and more

authoritative, but they made a decision a few years ago that if a

pair of high heels helped me command authority, maybe I don't want to. So

you think, it was actually an agency employee, but do you think that the

people who forced her and said you are not being paid unless you were

those at least two inch high heels, they were right? She should have

been paid. But you agree she should have been sent home without them? If

it is part of the dress code, I think she should... But it shouldn't

be part of the dress code. I think high heels make you think -- make

you feel more comfortable. -- confident. But it should be their

choice, why should it be imposed on them. This is crazy. I am a

glamorous girl, I love heels, I have multiple jobs, some of which require

you to dress smart and stuff like that, but my employers would always

say always make sure you're comfortable nicely. But I was

looking at statistics tonight, and this woman says that it is fine,

three inches and staff. 26% of the body weight on your body, it only up

to 26% by wearing three inch heels. So when you go to 45 inches, you are

putting 76% of your body weight straining on your knees, your

ankles. This can lead to problems on your spine. It's completely sexist,

it dress code... -- a dress code. I think the hill was designed for a

woman. Men couldn't work them. But there is no male equivalent. A tyre

is not about sexualising the body. Go ahead. I am insulin-dependent, a

diabetic. Part of my condition would have severe foot pain and numbness.

I cannot wear heels, I have to wear flat, comfortable shoes. If they

workplace told me to wear heels, I could not work there. I don't think

it should be illegal for an employer to expect a woman to wear high

heels. If the employer has a good reason... What could that be? That's

the question you've got to ask the employer. But there are no good

reasons! I had to follow a dress code in various jobs. But you have

never had to wear high heels. Can you come up with a reason an

employer might have? Some people like high hills. -- high heels. What

is the grin about? This is about women, when they are at work, should

they be forced to wear something? Some employers want their staff to

wear them. But that is not OK. It is hard to get a job... If your boss

wants you, you have to do it. Are you serious?! Yellow Macri is, there

are a lot of people cannot get work. It is only a dress code. -- there

are a lot of people who cannot get work. Would you wear anything, sexy

boy, to get a job? Yellow macro I do not need to. -- I do not need to.

This is complete nonsense. You should wear whatever you think is

appropriate for your work. But you cannot! Even before work, schools

dictate a school uniform, the BBC is dictating to be tonight but I cannot

come in, I'd like to wear jeans halfway back -- down my backside

with a dirty T-shirt and no shoes. But I think we have to be more

sensible about it. We need a dress code, yes. We did something that

fits our role in whatever business we are in. For you in a suit, for

me, I have to work something comfortable, I am in a lab all day.

In that T-shirt?! What does that say "Dastardly and Mutley"? If a man

doesn't have to go in wearing high heels, there is no viable reason why

that should be happening in 21st-century Britain. Absolutely. I

agree with this lady here with her condition. For health reasons. But

this guy says you should resist -- you should go with what your

employer says. If you are therefore a receptionist, two to three inch

heels, go for it. Receptionists are supposed to look professional, yes?

Not glamorous or sexy. What's wrong with smart flat shoes? What's wrong

with these? I'm just thinking, how did you get

your legs up that high?! They are smart, though. Go ahead. I think

it's completely absurd. Why other two different dress codes for men

and women? , on! As far as I'm concerned, they are capitalising on

a woman's good looks to more money. That is a good point. It's great

that so many men are making these plans. Do not think there are

reasonable dress codes between men and women? It depends where you

work, at various. But you cannot exploit someone, you cannot expect

them to wear specific clothing just to benefit your business. I looked

through some of the rules, Nicola. One of the rules also was, don't

come out on the floor without make-up. Yes. At least five items of

make up with specific shades of lipstick as well. And it's not just

a sexism issue, they also insisted that women of colour had their hair

chemically straitened because the natural hair was not professional

enough. That is truthful. Is it reasonable to force women to wear

make-up in certain jobs? What's the difference between choosing make up

and choosing shoes? I am selling high hills were designed for a woman

for an -- empowerment. How is it empowering a woman to force you to

do something against her will. If you put high heels on, and stand up,

you are feeling very strong about yourself. It is a choice that you

make. Not if you are forced. If it was a choice, we would not be having

a discussion. When I wear high heels, you might feel empowered, but

the second you start walking, you feel vulnerable. By all means, make

your choice, but it's not for me. I really like you! You are very

confident. Yes, you Nicola. Thank you, I don't need heels to make me

feel more confident! We said to be very, very venturing into territory

now of women being employed more than -- for their looks than their

ability. It seems to me that they are saying if you were heels, you

can do the job. If you are the best person, why should you have to wear

heels as part of that job? Is there anybody else in the audience apart

from boy wonder here who thinks it is OK for an employer to force you

to wear them? You have to adhere to a school uniform, not a school

uniform, a staff uniform. Go ahead. Never mind the dress code, this lady

here with a nice blonde hair, but loves her high heels. What is she

going to do whenever she has to get bunions sorted out? I have that

problem already. And I still wear my high heels. And all the employer is

quick to pay for medical conditions to be treated in hospital? I have

had that problem, and sorted it out myself. I just love my heels.

Nothing wrong with it. Well, maybe in another few years.

I don't actually know what a bunion is! It is a growth of the side of

your food. Very quickly, go ahead. I don't wear high heels in my personal

life or my work, and I work as a secretary, receptionist. I don't

think I've felt less confident than when I am wearing heels and wobbling

all over the place. It is a really interesting discussion, on

International Women's Day. Thank you so, so much for coming in. Thank you

for watching tonight as well. Hope you've enjoyed the show tonight.

We'll see you tomorrow on the radio. Goodbye, everybody!

"are a panel of experts, who will analyse