The Leaders' Debate Northern Ireland Elections

And they're back, just ten months after the last appearance together

on this stage, the parties are again looking for your vote in Thursday's

Assembly election. Tonight they answer questions from our studio

audience. Welcome to the Northern Ireland Leaders' Debate.

Good evening. Little did we think we'd be back here so soon. This

second election in a year, has been brought about by a break down in the

Stormont power-sharing coalition. It's about alleged corruption and

Unionist arrogance, says Sinn Fein. No about insatiable Republican

demands say the Democratic Unionists. The other main players

invoke plagues on both parties. Welcome to the leaders debate. For

the Social Democratic and Labour Party, Colum Eastwood. Michelle

O'Neill. The leader of the DUP, Arlene Foster. Mike Nesbitt of the

Ulster Unionists and for the Alliance Party, Naomi Long. The

yeses are from the studio -- the questions tonight From Both

yeses are from the studio -- the questions tonight From the questions

tonight are from the studio audience. It's a pleasure to welcome

viewers across the UK on the BBC News channel. Tweet us using hashtag

BBC NI debate. Our first question comes from Kirsty, an analyst in a

software company From the RHI scandal, what has been the most

important lesson you've learned. For network viewers, this is a green

energy scheme, similar to one run in the rest of the United Kingdom, but

with one significant difference, there was no cap put on the money

investors could make from their investment. For example, for every

pound that you spent on renewable energy, you get 1. ?1.60 back for

the next 20 years. This is potentially going to cost the

Northern Ireland Assembly something like ?500 million. That's the RHI

scandal. Arlene Foster, what have relearned from this? Of course, it's

not going to cost the Northern Ireland taxpayer potentially or

otherwise ?500 million because the reality is there are cost controls

now in place that were put in place by the Assembly. There's also now a

public inquiry set up, which will get to the truth and the facts of

the matter. Because up until now, all we've had is splil smears. We've

had numerous -- political smears. We've had numerous allegations. The

public inquiry has now been set up and we can get to the facts. There

have been lots of facts brought about, the fact is that this scheme

was allowed to go the way it did up until October 2015, that people were

in those last few weeks, before the cap was put on, before the rates

were changed, there was a spike in people, 900 new people signed up.

People thought this was a really good deal. It was far too good a

deal. The public inquiry will get to the bottom of all of that. You can

say now that was too good a deal. I called for an independent inquiry.

Well, we're all operating with the benefit of hindsight. Obviously, if

we had the benefit of hindsight when the scheme was set up, then this

wouldn't have happened. What's important now - The benefit of

sensible controls when it was set up. With the benefit of hindsight,

what we need to do now is allow the public inquiry to run its course and

get to the bottom of these issues. You didn't mention it at the launch

of your party manifesto, when it is what so many people have been

talking about for the past few months. You didn't even deem it

worthy of a mention. Of course, Noel, this election has been brought

about by lots of other things. The RHI has been the excuse. It has not

been the cause of this election. The cause of this election, of course,

is the wish of Sinn Fein to implement their radical Republican

agenda on Northern Ireland and what we want to see at the election is a

very clear choice. That choice is between - But why didn't you even

mention it at the launch of your manifesto? It is such a significant

issue for so many people? Because it's not the cause of the election.

It is the excuse - I didn't say you should have mentioned it as the

cause of the election. You didn't mention it All About Time. The

public inquiry -- mention it at all. The public inquiry will deal with

that. The pebble of Northern Ireland need to -- people of Northern

Ireland need to get to the bottom of this. Michelle O'Neill, as

agriculture minister, your department had 58 workshops on the

incentive, even as late as October 2015, at that spike period. These

workshops stressed the financial benefits of it. Do you think you've

got completely clean hands in all this? I do, absolutely. I don't know

where Arlene has been living for the past number of months. This election

is clearly for the RHI scandal, potentially ?500 million out of the

grant. Even by your own admission it's been many other things as well.

It's about RH EU regulations, it's -- RHI. We will get to the bottom of

all the issues with the public inquiry. There are things we know to

be factful and true. That's the fact that Arlene stripped out the cost

controls. I listened to Arlene wax leer cull about how the DUP have

this under control. They haven't. They put a sticking plaster for one

year. What about your department's involvement in it? What about when

you were head of the department of agriculture. 5 workshops saying this

is a fantastic -- 58 workshops saying this is a fantastic deal. The

workshops that were held were about renewable energy. It was a scheme,

as far as I was concerned, for any party was concerned it was a fine

scheme. Once my party knew about it, action was taken. Within ten days

the scheme was shut down. Other parties voted to keep the scheme

open - You didn't know any of the details from 2010 on? I want to

point out why that's a problem. The DUP very clearly and we've heard

from counterclaim and claim within the DUP, Johnny Bell in particular,

the DUP were withholding information from their government partners. What

lessons can be learned... Martin McGuinness was fully aware of the

scheme in January 2016. 5th February. That's months before the

last Assembly election. Why was it not an issue at the last Assembly

election? You will get a chance. We've heard Michelle that the DUP

wanted to keep the scheme open. The DUP wanted it closed. No, no, I will

let you come back on it. What lessons are to be learned? Arlene

doesn't seem to have learned any lessons by the sound of the words

coming out of her tonight. It's I disgrace in the way that we've got

to this situation. What Arlene did in setting up the scheme is she

changed the scheme from the British model to take out the cost controls.

That has to be remembered. It's good now, we've got a public inquiry.

Both Arlene and Sinn Fein opposed the public inquiry - Did you vote to

keep it open? We voted to keep the scheme open. Your party said we were

shameful for closing it down. Let me make this point, I agree with Arlene

Foster on one thing, Sinn Fein knew either last January or last

February, was it February? Last February. We went into an election

and they didn't tell the public the full extent of the black hole in the

finances. They didn't tell us. We went into negotiation about the

programme for government, in fact. We were able to meet every single

Permanent Secretary in the Northern Ireland Civil Service, apart from

one. The finance department. They wouldn't let us meet the finance

Permanent Secretary. There was no request. That's not true. There was

a question to meet every single Permanent Secretary. They wouldn't

let us. Now we know why. There's a huge black hole in the public

finances. We got here because of arrogance. We got here because of

mismanagement. What we have to do is learn the lessons, as the questioner

asked. We need to curb the number of special advisors that we have. Far

too many for a place of this size curb their pay and their power. That

would be a damn good start in solving some of the problems we have

in the public government. Naomi Long, lessons to be learned? I think

the first lesson that we can all learn is if you elect people on the

false premise they will go into the executive to defend unionism or

nationalism they might not be the right people to run the government.

They're not running it on the basis of their ability, competence. From

my perspective it's clear, what we need to learn from this is to elect

people who we believe - We can only elect people who stand. You've got

to elect people who can deliver good government. There are people who are

standing, not least in my own party, but in others, who are capable of

delivering good government. That should be the basis for making good

decisions in this election. How does that relate to RHI specifically? It

relates specifically because what we heard at the last election was that

we needed a strong leader of unionism. That same strong leader of

unionism presided over chaos within this scheme, presided over scheme in

terms of how it was handled. And didn't actually deal - This is chaos

with hindsight. No not with hindsight. It's chaos in the here

and now, because actually, when this was raised as part of the executive

issues coming over the last number of months, it could have been

handled better. It could have been handled differently. It could have

been handled within government without election if people would

have worked with the issues. They failed. The basis on which people

seek election is not on their competence and fitness to govern,

it's traditionally been on trying to frighten people in voting for them.

If you vote on that basis, you may not get the best people. Mike

Nesbitt? It's worning pointing out to your audience, particularly in

Great Britain, that this is costing ?85,000 a day. That's going up in

smoke needlessly. Some controls have been introduced already on that.

Well the difficulty with saying that we can control this, as Arlene

Foster is claiming, is that people in good faith, went to the banks,

borrowed significant money to buy the kit, the new boilers and the

banks were in receipt of a letter from Mrs Foster saying this is a

good thing and saying that the tariffs were grandfathered and that

they would not be changed under any circumstances. 12. 5%. Over the

remaining 19 years of the scheme. There is a huge problem there. You

can answer that. If there's a lesson to be learned it is this: We need

the end to ten years of government hall marked by arrogance, cronyism

and the strong whiff of corruption. It is time for change. A couple of

issues there for you both. Michelle O'Neill, even as late as February of

last year, Connor Murphy said he wanted the scheme kept open for two

more weeks. That was after the limits had been put on, the new

tariff had been established. He still wanted, as Colum Eastwood

said, there was an election looming and Sinn Fein were still supporting

the scheme. Let's be clear. As soon as I became aware on February 5, so

did his minister in the executive. That's absolutely true. That's not

true. It was dealt with by emergency procedures. We voted to shut the

scheme down straight away within ten days. Why didn't you tell the public

about it? Sinn Fein with the other parties voted to keep the scheme

open for two more weeks to allow the small contractors who submitted

money and were going to go bankrupt to deal with the back log. Other

parties voted to keep the scheme open. A different scheme! At this

stage the public purse was committed to the money. They wanted to keep

going. You didn't come out and say this has been a scandal, we're going

to bring the government of Northern Ireland down over this? We

participated responsibly - The scheme was so good, that's why they

had to close it. Connor Murphy brought it to the controller. Why in

December, was the issue which you say you brought down the Assembly?

Let me tell you. Johnny Bell made a public appearance and a media show

to tell the world that the DUP were up to their necks in trying to hide

the flaws of the scheme, that they knew about it from the July

previous. Of course, Martin McGuinness had to act. He didn't

know any that before? Absolutely he didn't. As soon as the programme was

done, we had the claims from within the DUP, among themselves about what

had happened, Martin McGuinness acted and shut the scheme down. Sinn

Fein was the only person that could deal with the issue of the DUP and

their arrogance and how they responded to the public. People are

angry. We spent the last six weeks on the doors talking to people.

People are angry at the arrogance, the disrespect, the contempt for the

public. The DUP can't even recognise they did something absolutely wrong.

Arrogance, disrespect and Colonel tempt, Arlene Foster? -- contempt. I

have to deal with the allegations of corruption as well - Allegations of,

there have been plenty of allegations, nothing more than that.

There's no evidence - But plenty of allegations. Here's the reality.

Would it not been more intelligent, better to have the public inquiry

first and then had the election? Because then we would have had the

full facts for everybody to make a judgment. Instead what - We could

have had an inquiry if you had stepped aside. What we've had is

political manoeuvring from Sinn Fein. What about a wee bit of

respect Michelle, just saying. APPLAUSE

What about respect for the public, Arlene.

APPLAUSE What we need to do is to have...

Instead of all the smears, the splil smearing that has gone -- political

smearing that has gone on, I may be the target of this, but the people

of Northern Ireland are the victims. We have a Health Service with

waiting lists going up all the time and the Health Minister seems

content. I want to bring the audience in. Gentleman at the back.

I accept that all the politicians and all the leaders need to know as

much as they possibly can. What I can't understand is how the

government members in particular, who have the inside track don't seem

to have communicated with each other about this. They don't seem to have

informed each other. It seems to have been hidden by them. It could

have been out before the last election and it wasn't. Here we are

having the election on the basis of this again. When this first

happened, when the scheme first went through in Stormont, it went through

as a scheme that only pertained to one department. It didn't require

executive sign-off. When it became a scheme and got into trouble and

affected the executive on the basis of the finance it's was taken

through by emergency procedure. So it never came in front of the

executive. Other colleagues who sat on the executive were not informed

of how bad the scheme was. Worse than that, they were lied to in the

chamber because people stood up at the time, when the scheme was

closing, and said it was being closed because it was a runaway

success, when in fact, it was a catastrophic failure of government.

Now when you lie to your colleagues in government and you don't share

the full facts, you can't start after the event - There was a huge

take up of what seemed to be a very good scheme.

But it wasn't delivering what people wanted. I don't think anybody

believes it was good for the environment. People were running

boilers with windows open. People were being incentivised to use more

fuel rather than less. The point of this is it was not brought to the

Executive. Noel it was brought to the Assembly and scrutinised by the

committees. We had no member... Let me bring a few more members of

audience in. I signed for a mortgage and since paid off, I signed to pay

so much over a period of time. I don't recall I could just walk into

the bank and say, I have changed my mind, I'm not paying, I can't

understand how the Government can sign up, people can take out a

contract on a scheme that was backed by we had letters to the lenders. It

is going to be scrapped and you're getting less. I don't think it is

going to be scrapped. Yes. The question was what have you learned,

it is clear Arlene Foster has learned nothing, she deflected, her

answer was not about what she learned, but went to deflect and

qualify about facts and what she is going to do about cost controls.

What have you learned. So facts aren't important? We should have had

fact finding. We have had the verdict... You wouldn't stand aside

for a public inquiry. Yes, because it was a Sinn Fein demand and

because of that, that was put there for a particular reason, why I

didn't stand aside, I wanted to fix it. Everybody knows that. I wanted

to fix the problem. When you're a politician, you should try and fix

the issue, instead of walking away. That is what I was trying to do. One

last comment. Can I just ask, the SDLP was it not the chair person of

that committee that oversaw that, was it not Patsy McGlone. I sit on

committees and surely this could have been brought to them sooner?

Exactly. Any committee can only work on the information that they get.

And it is clear now the nobody in this audience, nobody watching the

show, knew about the black hole in the public finances at the last

election. And it was kept away from other parties and kept between two

parties. Yeses... Everybody knew at the same time. That is not true and

you know it is not true. I do know... The Sinn Fein and DUP kept

to it themselves and went into the election and told nobody and they

denied opposition parties access to the permanent Secretary of the

finance department. Now we all know why. Thank you. We are going to

leave that one there. Our second question is from Thomas. Is this the

first election where there will be significant cross community transfer

of votes? A single transferable vote and you can vote for whoever you

want. Mike Nesbitt said he would be voting outside the tribe and vote

for an SDLP candidate and he got a lot of flak from it. Any regrets?

No, what I'm encouraging is people to vote Ulster unionist one or two

and then vote for any candidate that you trust will do right by your

community and this country. I think this is the first election in the

hisry of Northern Ireland -- history of Northern Ireland where it will be

possible to sack your Government and give a turn to the opposition there.

Hasn't been an official opposition since devolution returned in 1998

and of course previously with the old Stormont rule, the unionists

always won and it was majority rule. We are not going back there. You

have a real opportunity this time to say, I am going to vote not orange

or green, I'm going to vote as a referendum on the RHI scandal and

ten years of the DUP and Sinn Fein running the Government. If you

like... If you want to diskss this with your party, did you? If you

like what they have done, give them another mandate. Your own party

doesn't like what you said. Did you not consult can them before you went

on this? The party does like whey said, vote Ulster unionist. Danny

said I want to go down the unionist ticket, that is consistent with me

saying trust the people in your local community. He knows his local

community and it would be hypocritical of me to vote for the

former speaker. Given the criticism I levelled at him. You didn't

discuss it with anybody. Leadership involves leading. And usually a bit

of consultation. I'm leading and people nowhere I stand, but more

importantly, I am focussed on the fact that this is an opportunity to

bring about change, away from two parties who only share space power

and responsibility, because the law says they have to and to two parties

that will share this. Some thought you were less than gracious in your

response to Mike, especially since 11% of SDLP transfers in last

election came from Ulster unionists. #10i9 is already happening. Yes, the

public are ahead of us. Well ahead of you. I have said people will vote

for change and hopefully they will vote for us in the first preference

and transfer for change for candidates who are willing to make

this place work. What Mike said was brave and the response to that from

some was very unfortunate. Those people are behind where the people

are. People in the North are voting across community and transferring

and I'm an Irish nationalist, Mike Nesbitt is a unionist. I won't be

less of a nationalist if I transfer across community, it doesn't affect

my nationalism. It is the kind of politics we need to embrace. We had

power sharing that means unionists and nationalists work together and

it is time we embrace a work out how we can make Northern Ireland work.

The problem, if we vote for Sinn Fein and the DUP, all we can see is

red lines and that means direct lines. If people want devolution

they should vote for people who make this work. Arlene Foster, you said

it is dangerous to transfer out of your tribe. What I have said is that

this election will be close. All of the polls are saying it and all the

papers say it. It will be neck and neck between Sinn Fein and the DUP.

That being the case, it is dangerous talk, because what you're going to

end up for if you vote for the Ulster unionist and transfer to the

SDLP, you're ensuring more nationalists are coming in. I make

no apology for the fact I want to see the maximum number of unionists

in. There is confidence for you. I'm a unionist first and foremost. You

didn't want too see the maximum number of nationalists. It is not

about a border poll. Would you not like to see the maximum number of

nationalists? Arlene's unionism is so strong she is putsing out

leaflets with a darkened down picture of Gerry Adams and talking

about Gerry Adams more than anybody else. That is what people are fed up

and... I haven't mentioned Gerry Adams. Makes a change. Thank you are

for doing it. You mentioned him 32 time, Gerry Adams 12 times and Sinn

Fein 32 times in your manifesto launch. I haven't mentioned him

tonight, but thank you for doing that Noel. I couldn't hear kwha you

said. I said thank you for mentioning it, it is important

people know the consequences of transferring that you will have more

nationalists in the Assembly and that is the reality. Nobody, no

commentator, no serious commentator is saying that a vote for Mike and

you get Colum. If you vote for Mike, you will get Michelle. What's wrong

with me. People voted for you and they got Martin McGuinness and he

wrote your resignation letter. How... Where would you transfer to?

I won't be the first election the we have fought on the basis of cross...

You have got 11% of transfers in 2016. . We draw from across the

community, people... That is not the question. Who would you transfer

your vote to. The question was is the first election that will be

fought on tla basis. I say no not for the Alliance Party. I'm glad

that others are talking about co-operating on the basis of doing

so voluntarily, rather than doing it holding their nose. You don't think

it whether it matters if you transfer to a unionist or

nationalist. No what matters is you transfer to somebody that wants to

build a liberal society and it willing after the election, because

is the is what counts, to make the Assembly work for people in Northern

Ireland and we tell our people to vote alliance first and then for

other candidates. Does it mat Fer Sinn Fein becomes the largest party?

What difference does it make? No one has told us what difference it

makes. It is amazing the DUP when you're at their Conference are all

about confident unionism, and then every election, unionism has not

been in such trouble. It is time they stopped playing the politics of

fear and owned up that they have nothing else to offer than fear and

I think people are tired of trying to be pulled back into the ditches

over this and they want to move forward and to vote on the basis of

vision and to vote on the basis of something positive. We will tell

people who vote Alliance to transfer to other people who are offering

something positive. Michelle O'Neill who would you ask your voters to

transfer to? We are out to seek the largest mandate, no one, Sinn Fein

wants to represent everybody and make sure... You want a united

Ireland so, unionists have something to fear. No we signed up to the

principle of consent and it is my job to convince others that we...

Who do we transfer to. That we could be better off. In terms of who I

would want to transfer to, our own party. After that, you see any party

that is progressive and anti-Brexit. People for profit? The they're not

in the same position on Brexit. I would say vote for progressive

parties and people that are view to your values of integrity and

anticorruption. I want to come back quickly, what do you have to fear

from Sinn Fein? Well they want to implement their radical Republican

agenda. I want... Nothing to fear of a united Ireland. And nothing about

my five point plan for Northern Ireland. She said we have nothing to

positive to offer. If you look at our five-point plan, we want to see

more and better jobs and an infrastructure that is world class,

a good education. That could be a Sinn Fein manifesto. I spent

three... I spent. I sprent 3,000 words talking about it at my

manifesto launch but you want to talk about Gerry Adams. The words

are there. I didn't talk about crocodiles. That was at my campaign.

You wouldn't take questions at the manifesto launch. The gentleman at

the back. I'm one of approximately 45% of people who didn't vote last

time. Three of our leaders here have convinced that I want to vote.

Simply because they're talking in terms of true partnership and

leadership. And three out of five have convinced they want to work

together for the sake of Northern Ireland and uniting it, two others

are wanting to divide Northern Ireland. Name names.

Michelle and Arlene will never see eye to eye. It's negative leadership

all the way. Gentleman here in the blue. Michelle O'Neill was saying

she wants for both sides of the community to help build a united

Ireland together, but her party leader Gerry Adams cam out and

called my community orange and I'm not going to repeat his abusive

language towards my community. That's not telling me that you want

to reach out. Also, disagree with my Colum Eastwood. I believe

transferring the vote isn't important especially in this

election. I'm a Unionist. I want most unionists elections returned.

In tight councils - Hurry it up a little please. If you don't have

enough unionists, people vote and take dob the flag. That shows our

identity. Gentleman there. I'd like to ask the leaders who on the panel

would be willing to sacrifice their wish for a united Ireland or United

Kingdom if it meant that all of the community had better health care,

better education and a better life? Would you sacrifice that aim? That

is a retorical question at the moment. I won't go round everybody,

but we will do our best. Question number three. You are a student

representative. Can you tell us what you believe that our specific

priorities should be in the upcoming Brexit negotiations? Brexit, of

course, is on everybody's lips, I suppose. Martin McGuinness said that

people are talking about no border of the past but we've got the border

of the future coming at us. What can anyone do Michelle O'Neill in hiss

situation to influence Brexit? We have no voice. We don't even have

the Secretary of State on the Brexit committee. You're absolutely right.

That's why I have engaged in theure even level. Those in the British

Government dictate the terms of Brexit. It will not be up to them,

despite what Theresa May says. We need to engage with Europe on the

member states that have a vote in terms of what happens next. This is

unprecedented. Clearly, it's catastrophic for the island of

Ireland. One issue I've raised with the Taoiseach is that he needs to

step up in the interest of Ireland. There's free movement of people

across this Ireland and in relation to undermining the Good Friday

Agreement. One of the things they're most proud of is the fact they've

played our part in the peace process. We need to go out and

engage in Europe. I think it's disappointing and disgraceful again

that the DUP have taken a stance that turns their face against the

majority of people here who voted to remain in Europe. We have seen that

we should have been paid to take that stance. That is disgusting. It

shows that again, the DUP in terms of allegations of corruption and

arrogance and how they conduct themselves in business, that is not

acceptable. Would you take your Westminster seats to vote on Brexit

issues? It's clear that anybody who has taken their Westminster seats,

we wobt. It will not make any difference. We're not being listened

to out there. All the MPs taking their seats will be ineffective.

Naomi Long you're talking about special status. You want to be still

in the single market, still in the customs union, still have access to

structural funds and the right to EU citizenship to anyone born in

Northern Ireland. Are you ignoring the fact that the Brexit referendum

took place and Brexit is Brexit. We are dealing with the practical

challenges that Northern Ireland face. What we are doing is eting is

out our pitch, unlike others we have produced a paper. It's La La Land to

coin a phrase. It is absolutely not. It's our pitch for what Northern

Ireland needs. Access to the customs union is important in terms of the

cost - You may think it's what Northern Ireland needs. There's no

chance of your getting it. You don't know that, with all due respect. You

won't be round the table when the negotiations take place. I don't

need to convince you. I into Ed to convince the Irish government and

the 27 other EU states. And British Government who have said there's no

special status. The British Government can say that they want.

They don't have a plan. They are going to be round the table and they

have said no special status. They don't have a plan that includes

Northern Ireland or takes our issues seriously. We do. So we will be

taking that to the other nations within Europe. We will be taking

that to the Irish government as we have. We're listening, very

carefully to those who do business on a cross-border basis to the

challenges they will face. I believe we can get special arrangements,

believe it or not. There is goodwill in the European Union for Northern

Ireland. People recognise that we are pro-EU region. They recognise

the importance of Europe in terms of actually helping our peace process.

I think they are willing to be more flexible that people give them

credit for. One of the good things about the EU that's often overlooked

is it's ability to work round difficult issues and find bespoke

solutions. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to go and fight

our corner for a bespoke solution. If you're going to say that the

answer to this is to lie down and give up and let Theresa May - I'm

not saying anything of the sort. And let Theresa May give us a hard

border and all the other things, that's not the kind of politics that

I want to do. Colum Eastwood, you want join British-Irish rule to give

us, assuming there's no government after the election. I want a

government here first of all. Failing that, you've asked for joint

British-Irish rule to give us a voice at the Brexit table. That's

another solution, isn't it? No, it's not. What are we supposed to do? If

we elect the DUP and Shane feign, who can't form a government, are we

supposed to say over to you Theresa May, you lead this hard Brexit and

destroy all the hopes and dreams of people here? Destroy our peace

process, destroy our economic process. That may be what you have

to do. That's why I've spent the last number of months travelling

around Europe meeting the heads of our sister parties from across

Europe, many of them Presidents and prime ministers to push the case for

special status for citizens here. Remember the vast majority of people

living in Northern Ireland are entitled to be European citizens.

That has to be respected. We have to be able to move freely and do

business freely across the European Union. If we don't get that, this

will become an economic black water and it will threaten our peace

process. Anybody who says differently are living in La La

Land, as you said. I put the same point to you, though, the bring

Government have said there will be no special status. It's not up to

them. It's between the British Government and the EU, the

negotiations. The British Government don't know what they want. They

don't have a clue. Their position changes every single day. What I've

been doing is speaking to the Irish government, speaking to governments

across Europe to press the case for the special status that we require.

Can you call it whatever you want. It's protecting citizens here,

protecting communities and protecting businesses. That's what

we have to be involved in. We are the representatives of the people

here who voted to remain in the European Union. Our job is to

protect them not to vote to get them out. It's unfortunate, though, that

our executive did nothing when they were in post, unlike the Scottish

government and Welsh government. Specific priorities was the

question. We have ten asks that we published back in September when we

produced our own document, a vision for Northern Ireland outside of the

European Union. I would make this point to you, Noel, as we sit here,

at the end of February, the UK Government has a white paper looking

at Brexit. The Scottish Government has a paper. The Welsh Government

has a paper. The Dublin Government has a paper. Our Government

prodoused a blank sheet. We produced a paper. The key asks are things

like access to the sing the market, the common travel area. And other

areas like infrastructure, where we're very weak. Treble investment

in infrastructure. DUP say your proposals are uncosted and untested.

The DUP campaigned to come out of the European Union on the basis that

we would repat reiate billions and billions and billions of sterling

annually from Brussels. Where is the negotiation that say to Mrs May, you

must take some of that lump of money and give it to us for things like

skills and infrastructure? All that's available on our website.

It's a terrible shame that we are not negotiating. I took our document

to Mrs May in Downing Street. She understands our particular

circumstances - Listens so intently, she has it on the back page of her

document. She gave us one wee mention in the annexe. The British

Government will not dictate the terms. Arlene Foster, you sent a

joint letter with Martin McGuinness talking about access to migrant

labour, cross-border crime and peace process, must continue to be dealt

with. Are you pro or anti? We are a pro-Brexit party and have been for

40 years, unlike Mike's party who changed at the Brexit debate, well,

sorry, Mike changed. His party were mostly for coming out of the

European Union. You do not know that. Maybe you should speak to your

members, because I do. They were for coming out. What do the public say.

Old friends of yours, of course. Where she gets her policies from.

I'm certainly not taking any of yours. Can I say to you, we

campaigned for Brexit. We believe in Brexit. We believe in global UK. We

want to be a part of that. We're positive about it. You believe in

spending other people's money to bring it about. We believe in

flexibility and innovation, something not existing in the

European Union. We will work with the Government, not against the

Government to bring about a Brexit that is good for Northern Ireland.

Of course, the DUP is the best placed party to bring about a good

deal for Northern Ireland, because of our influence at Westminster.

Michelle says she's not going to go to Westminster. We do have

Westminster MPs. Will you respond to the claim that taking ?400,000 out

from the constitutional research council for the newspaper adverts in

England was despicable. No, of course it wasn't. We registered,

unlike any of the other parties - We registered. Maybe you tell us about

your donations then. Where did this money come from? There's another

story out tonight breaking - You've had your chance to speak. Can you

defend that. We've been entirely open as to where the money comes

from. It comes from the constitutional research - no, it

wasn't. That is so... That's wrong. You made a commitment that you would

publish - We have published this. You said you would publish this

around your donors in your manifesto. Have you published your

donors? Yes, we have. You have published one. Neither has anyone

else of course. Let's not stick on that. A couple of comments from the

audience. We publish ours voluntarily. I don't know how

anybody can trust a party who took such a large donation to campaign

for Brexit, while sitting on a report on Brexit for Northern

Ireland. I have no idea what you're talking about. I think it was summed

up the other night, Brexit at any cost. The DUP have gapbled with all

our futures -- gambled. It's interesting how Mike and Colum talk

about working together. I'm quite tempted to go for that. Brexit shows

how can you work together when you are so different on such a major

issue facing us? That joint letter was a sign there was some

preparedness to work together. Again, we've run out of time on that

question. Thank you ladies and gentleman. We move on to the fourth

question. Sarah, you are in marketing. Good evening. Given the

failure of the parties to continue running Stormont, is direct rule now

inevitable post election? Well, that was a big question, of course. Colum

Eastwood, you have said a protracted period of direct rule looks

inevitable. Is it so inevitable? It is only inevitable if people vote

for the DUP and Sinn Fein, who have put down red lines everywhere.

They've said they can't work together, they can't get the deal

done. If we end up with direct rile, it's going to be a very difficult to

put this back together again. We should vote for parties who want to

work together on day one. We're not putting down red lines here. We want

to get into government to tackle the issues and challenges around Brexit,

the tackle the issues in the Health Service, not put up barriers to

progress. The idea of handing back power, so hard fought for, to the

British Government, who are intent on destroying our Health Service,

intent on taking us into a hard Brexit, putting up barriers across

this Ireland will be a real shame. We're in a battle to protect

devolution, to protect power sharing. Don't let anybody tell us,

any commentator or poster tell You Know Yourself don't have -- tell you

you don't have the power. They can maintain devolution and power

sharing and stop direct rule. You have said there were no red lines.

Then your MLA said of course, there's the Irish Act, the legacy

issues, the Bill of Rights, a whole list of red lines. Which is your

position? I've always said that we won't negotiate our red lines in

public. Everybody has red lines. It's interesting that it's only Sinn

Fein that only gets asked about red lines. Colum Eastwood says he

doesn't have red lines. I think it's a nonence. Hold on. Was has this to

do with forming a government. ALL TALK AT ONCE Let's talk about

possibly forming a government. I'll come back to that. That is the

question. I don't want you to come back to it. That is the question. If

you'll let me finish. I want you to answer the question. I'm asking for

the strongest mandate for Sinn Fein to go into the negotiations to deal

with the issues. To demand what? There's no public appetite for a

gnaw agreement. What we need, the reason we're in the scenario we are

in today is because of a failure to implement what's previously agreed.

Like the Irish language act, the Bill of Rights, legacy issues. They

are key issues which are important for society. We need to see those

things implemented. I'm not seeking a gnaw agreement. I have my

negotiation team ready to go. We want to find a way forward. Nobody

has worked harder than Sinn Fein - But you won't negotiate as long as

Arlene Foster is the nominated First Minister? If they become the biggest

party? I've always said it's not for me to dictate who leads the DUP. So

you will negotiate? I'll come at it with a good heart, wanting to find a

way forward. I want to brick politics into the new era. A new

style of government and politics. This is straight, because it's

important. If the DUP is the biggest party in this election, and Arlene

Foster is nominated as First Minister, you will nominate a deputy

first machine and go into negotiations. No, no, I said I can't

dictate who leads the DUP but we can say who goes into government with.

That's the same thing. I can't go into government with Arlene Foster

whilst there's a cloud hanging over her. The full vaning needs to --

investigation needs to report. You see if Arlene wants to - If the

public have their say and make the DUP the biggest party you're not

letting the public have their say. Say that again. If people elect the

DUP as the biggest party and the DUP puts forward Arlene Foster then you

are not listening to the people. I am absolutely listening to the

people. I'm true to the principles of the Good Friday agreement. I

would like to see all parties in the executive, all parties working

together on the principles of power sharing. If we go back to the

principles of the Good Friday agreement, quality, respect and

integrity, through power sharing - You won't respect the DUP mandate. I

can respect their plan date. I can respect who they return. I can

respect who leads the DUP. I can't go into government whilst there's a

shadow hanging over Arlene Foster fost.

APPLAUSE -- Arlene Foster.

APPLAUSE Is that a reasonable position? I

don't think it is. We called for Arlene Foster to stand aside without

prejudice. She is not going to do that. It is not for us to dictate

the outcome after the election. We said it won't be about personalities

or party, but about policy and principles. We were clear in the

last election as we have been in this one, that we have red lines and

we have been open about what they are. Because we want people to

understand our reasons to decide to go into government or not go into

government. We have been open and honest about that on both occasions.

I want to see is not an extended period of direct rule, it is not

inevitable, people have a choice to make to make sure it does not happen

and it is not desirable. What you need to have and what we have found

as a result of discussion we have had is more accountable government

and we won't get that from Westminster, we will get this from

electing the right people to go to Stormont and do the job to the best

of their ability and not power sharing, the problem is we have

never tried power sharing. Wind farm tried power carve up and it has not

worked. Now is the time to try power sharing, where people go into

government together, together work, as opposed to using their

departments like fiefdoms and don't recognise what is going on in the

departments beside that. That can't continue and it has failed over and

over again. We need a transformation in attitude as much as in practice.

Mike Nesbitt is direct rule inevitable? I do not believe it is,

because I'm not fatalist tick about the result and I'm encouraged by the

man in the 45% who said he would vote. If Sinn Fein and DUP are the

two main parties is direct rule inevitable. It seems likely, but it

doesn't fix anything, we have to get back to 19 years ago and the Ulster

Unionist Party worked for that and that was based on a fresh start for

reconciliation, building trust between the two communities,

demonstrating mutual respect. That will have to come. Whether it is in

this election or the next one. We will have to show each other... We

are talking about a three week period after Thursday. There must be

an executive and a Government set up. It depends on who votes and how

they vote. Would you go for some kind of, there has been talk about

having direct rule ministers responsible to an Assembly, is that

reasonable? They're all propositions that only need to be discussed be

people don't vote for change. I encourage people too decide they

want to build a properly shared future. Talking about red lines,

Arlene Foster, you have said your demands will be proportionate to the

demands of Sinn Fein. What does that mean? We want devolution back up and

running quickly, because unlike the others, I think that we have

achieved in this past ten years, stability has brought achievements.

We were able to create 40,000 new jobs and see waiting lists go down

and seen infrastructure improve and more tourists come to Northern

Ireland. I want to see that back as quickly as possible to get into the

positive way forward and I suppose it is a matter for Sinn Fein as to

what they come forward with, if they come forward with a long list of

demands, and we are not sure what they will come forward with, of

course we will want to be proportionate in what we want for

our community. What about those demandses. . You're there to

represent the entire community, not just their community or your

community. That is why we want devolution back to create the jobs

we promised. That is what... Is not a red line though is it? We are not

talking about red lines. Of course we have to see what Sinn Fein will

ask for. What I want to see is devolution back up and running. That

is what the people of Northern Ireland want. If Sinn Fein wins, we

win for everybody, I'm only interested in governing for

everybody. Equality, integrity and respect in government. I'm not

interesting in finding thing force unionism or nationalism. None will

happen, Arlene Foster, if you want to remain as First Minister. If you

were acting in the interests of the people, you would say I will sit

back. Not a single vote has been counted. So it is important that

people come out and vote on Thursday for what they want to see. And they

have a very clear choice, it whether they want a important election

recognising values or a Sinn Fein Republican plan. I think we can move

Northern Ireland forward. It is whether there is the will from

others. Yes? You have mentioned the worries about what Sinn Fein might

do, but you hold the same veto as they held over your plans, when you

they were the deputy First Minister, what is the difference? I'm not

talking about if they become First Minister, I'm talking about if they

win the election, they will push ahead with their radical agenda and

will use their mandate to argue for a border poll that would be

destabilising for Northern Ireland and we have seen the way it has

destabilised Scotland Sa it would be wrong for Northern Ireland if we had

that. The only thing that will change is the DUP's ego will be

wounded and I don't think the public cares about that, they care about

health and education. The fact that less than two years, the election is

a testament to their inability to work together. We are talking about

ten years of stability it has not been ten years of stability for the

environment we have had ten years with the biggest illegal landfill in

Europe and that comes back to the door of environment minister who

rejected recommendations for environmental form. For an illegal

land dump, are you serious. Do you go back to your decision. No, it

doesn't. Michelle said the mandate of the people will be listened to,

what about the mandate of everyone across Northern Ireland, are you

going to listen to the mandate of everybody else with L GB T rights

and the stability and the First Minister's office has been Martin

McGuinness. That is your opinion, your entitled it, I think the

stability of First Minister's office was a joint effort. Mike told he

would vote down the candidates you trust and you're an ex-Belfast man,

and you have that selection of unionists that you would frus a

nationalist. -- trust a nationalist. That is the ironic, because he

doesn't trust the other unionist and he will find unionists don't trust

Mike, because he doesn't show moral leadership. There has been talk

about the united Ireland and Sinn Fein being the leader, Sinn Fein

leader being the First Minister. Am I not right in thinking at the Good

Friday Agreement the question of the constitution of Northern Ireland was

settled? What I would like to ask, the gentleman said the Good Friday

Agreement said the constitution question was settled, it has been

settled under the principle of consent that cuts both ways. Are we

going to be dragged back out of EU because people voted to... It was a

national vote. That is the point. You have to accept the overall vote.

Arlene talks about a radical Republican agenda, if that means

supporting the Irish language, sign me up, I'm for that. You go ahead.

You're voting in east Belfast and said you will transfer to other

candidates that are progressive, will you vote for Naomi? I have no

doubt... I will. There you go, it is a straight answer. My goodness. The

issue of L GB T rights has been talked about, one issue has been the

abuse of petition of concern. Now Arlene wants to get rid of it. Will

you tell us, will you not use the petition of concern... Used 96

times. Will Arlene commit to not using the petition of consent on

equal marriage? Let me be very clear... APPLAUSE I can see we have

a balanced audience tonight. Let me be clear. Completely balanced. No

expense spared to get a balanced audience. Let me be clear, the SDLP

and Sinn Fein used the petition of concern to block welfare reform and

cost the people of Northern Ireland ?174 million, 160,000 a day for

three years. That is how they used it. It was to protect the most

vulnerable. They want to use the petition of concern when it suits

them. Unionism is not allowed to. I'm glad she didn't bang the podium

the way she banged the table when we asked about this last May. When we

asked clearly, if as agreed under the fresh Start, this was something

thatArlene signed up, they use the petition of concern... We have run

out of time. Sorry, it is amazing how quickly the time passes when you

are enjoying yourself. You can see a full list of candidates on the BBC

news web side. The Green Party and People for Profit will give their

views on Newsline. From here a very good night.

Good morning, this is BBC Breakfast. Morning, Dan.

In the sports news, we have the latest on the Welsh rugby team,