Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy Panorama


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Life and Debt: A Greek Tragedy

John Humphrys investigates the economic crisis in Greece, meeting ordinary Greeks and exploring how the outcome of the upcoming election may signpost the future of Europe.


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Tonight on Panorama, the human face of a European tragedy. Where

:00:14.:00:17.

austerity means pharmacists run out of medicine.

:00:17.:00:23.

I cannot sleep. I don't know if it is my fault and how I can solve the

:00:23.:00:32.

problem. Where middle-class families rely on

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charity to feed their children. Where fear of immigration is being

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stoked by the far - right. I'm scared. They hate me.

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Who are they? The Pakistan... week's election result, may have

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saved the Euro for now. This is a victory for all of Europe.

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But can the Greeks trust their leaders to get it right this time?

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Those who have brought us to where we are today cannot be the vision

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Aries tomorrow. If not, how much longer with the

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people's patience hold out? We have nothing. No jobs no work. We have

:01:17.:01:26.
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-- rise up and fight. In the run-up to the June election

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I went to Greece to find out how the people are coping with a crisis

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that threatens to destroy their once comfortable existence.

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I had been coming here for the past 20 years, ever since my son

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Christopher moved here. Hi dad.

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Back in the days when life was good. We have seen this country change

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almost beyond recognition. That is for rent. That is for rent.

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Kotstopholous has gone out of business. Half of them are empty or

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for rent. Rethis? Are they.

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Since joining the Euro, Greece has enjoyed a most spectacular boom

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since joining the Euro. Now it is suffering from an even more

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spectacular bust. It is just decimated.

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Some of the fruits of the wild and unchecked optimism are still

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unchecked, because the rich have held on to their wealth and some

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are very rich indeed. It's the rest who have suffered.

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Especially in the past four years. Their political leaders had

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delivered the message that they could have it all, without too much

:02:44.:02:54.
:02:54.:02:56.

effort. They believed them. It was William Beveridge who

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identified the five giant evils that threaten a nation, want,

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disease, squallior, idleness, ignorance. That was 70 years ago.

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That nation was Great Britain. Those same giant evils threaten

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this nation today. When Christopher came here to work

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in a brand new Orchestra in the early nineties, it seemed that the

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giants had been slain. How much more enticing for a young man was

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the prospect of a good life in the sun with a guaranteed job, than

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dowdy old Britain, still recovering from a recession? Now he and his

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wife, Peppy, fear for the future of his young family. His salary has

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been slashed and the Orchestra is fighting to survive. She works as a

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lawyer but never knows which clients will pay and which will not.

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Things were still good when we all ziegted eight years ago to build a

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house here, but now when I return and catch up with old friends...

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Hello! The mood has changed. My neighbours know what it to blame.

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Here in Greece in the last 30 years, the half of the people go to live

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in Athens. An easy life with easy money.

:04:18.:04:28.
:04:28.:04:28.

So, we stroped to produce and to export -- so we stopped production.

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We stopped thinking like Greeks. We want to do holidays all of the year

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like the tourists. We want easy work. Like this. What has to be

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done to get Greece out of trouble? The problem in Greece is that we

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need jobs. We need to work. We have to pay taxes.

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We have very, very big problems. Are you worried? I work too much.

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Very worried. Definitely. It is a big problem.

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Before Greece joined the European Union, 17% of its people worked in

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farming and fishing. Now it is 3%. Exports have fallen, imports have

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risen. The population of Athens doubled in two generations and the

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country has forgotten how to earn its keep. My neighbour, Nikos has

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to support two grown up children in Athens as they are unemployed. For

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most of his life he was a ship's engineer, with a good pension. He

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was enjoying his retire whment I first met him. Now he is struggling.

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Once he fished for the pleasure of it, now it is for need.

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A good pension... I was on the ships for 3 years to earn a pension

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that I could live on. I had about 1,000 Euros a month. He a good life.

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Now they have cut my pension by 300 Euros. I have two children in

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Athens, don't they need to eat? They are now unemployed.

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How are you managing to find the money? I couldn't manage. I bought

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that little boat to catch the fish to eat. How will I live? Nikos is

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not alone. On average pensions have been cut 30%. It is estimated that

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40% of Greeks could soon be living in poverty. Imagine that in

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Britain? 24 million people on the breadline? Greek culture, classic

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literature is suffused with morality tales, the most famous of

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them all, of course, King Midas, whose one great wish was that

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everything he touched would turn to gold. As every other school child

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know it is worked brilliantly for a while, then he came to grief.

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In many ways, the story of Greece is a modern morality tale. This

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small country could have have had a modest economy, but Greece cooked

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the books in its desperation to join the Euro and the E U-turned a

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blind eye. When all of that cheap borrowing

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was thrust at them, the Greeks grabbed it and spent it but when

:07:23.:07:33.
:07:33.:07:36.

the bills started to come in, they Greece is a country that knows

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about suffering. The Nazi occupation was perhaps the

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most brutal in Europe. At least 200,000 people starved to death,

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many more were murdered. With the allied victory there came not peace,

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but savage Civil War. Nationalist forces supported by the allies

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defeated the communist, but then... After two decades, the army took

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over. A ruthless military dictatorship ruled until 1974, when

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the people overthrew the generals and opted for democracy.

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And now there is a new enemy, austerity does not pick and choose

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its victims. You sense that some people are beginning to lose the

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will to fight. But not all.

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Something extraordinary is happening here. All over the

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country volunteer organisations are springing up to help the people in

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the most desperate need. Stepping in where the state has

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failed. This may look like any other small

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coner -- corner shop, but it is not. The goods are given to families who

:08:51.:09:01.
:09:01.:09:02.

cannot afford the basic necessities. Melina was 14 when she told her

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mother, Roubini Terzaki to set up a charity for the most needy. That

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was four years ago. Today, there are 4,500 people.

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Every day there are about 60 or 70 families in need.

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New families? Yes. They are asking for your help?

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That is a bad surprise. In a sense, I suppose, that there

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is a citizens' army being formed of volunteers who are saying that the

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state has let us down so we will get together and do it oufs? When

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your house is -- and do it ourselves? When your house is on

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fire you don't stay desperate, you do something. That is what we do.

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The operation is expanding by the day, it has to. Unemployment in

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Greece is now at 20 percent, benefits now stop after a year.

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More and more once middle-class families are falling into poverty.

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This apartment is home to a book- keeper who has been unemployed

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since her firm went bust. Her husband is a builder who has had

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hardly any work in the past two years.

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They are thousands of Euros in debt. Were it not for the charity their

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three children would go hungry. Moments of fun like this are rare,

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but the hep is not just welcomed, it is essential.

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You have small children, how important is all of this to you?

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How would you manage without all of this?

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TRANSLATION: I don't know. We are going through a tough time. My

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husband is out of work, I'm out of work. We only have my mother's

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pension of 400 Euros a month. It is not enough.

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Today I had no food to cook. I didn't know how I was going to feed

:10:59.:11:06.

the children. It's very hard.

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What is the worst thing about being as poor as you are now?

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TRANSLATION: It's put a strain on the relationship with my husband.

:11:17.:11:27.
:11:27.:11:42.

We are like two strangers. TRANSLATION: I remember life under

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the generals. This is worse. These are not good times to live in.

:11:51.:12:01.
:12:01.:12:02.

Before there was work, times were different.

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Sometimes Maria has to send her children to school without food and

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Greece does not do free school dinners. In the poorest areas the

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teachers talk of children fainting in the classroom as they are not

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getting enough to eat, but it is when the children get sick that the

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real horror of the spending cuts kicks in. Opposite this children's

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hospital, Konstantina Gavrou runs a pharmacy, but the national fund

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that supplies the pharmacists is failing. They are losing the battle

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to buy the drugs that the patients desperately need.

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It really is the case that children's hospital on the other

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side of the square from here, there are parents who are being given

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drugs for their children with cancer and they have to share them

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with other parents whose children have cancer?

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TRANSLATION: The parents of these children across the street open a

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packet of medication and hand them out. This is not candy, this is

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medicine. Now I blame myself. I don't actually serve the people, I

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just add to their misery. How will this problem be resolved?

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The Greek government cannot allow many people to die because they

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don't get the drugs? Surely? TRANSLATION: We are paying large

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interest payments while children at school don't have books, now they

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have no medicines, something is not right.

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What Foreign Secretary does this have on you as somebody who has

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been a pharmacist for some years now, made your life as a

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pharmacist? Actually this I can say in English... I cannot sleep.

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During the night I'm feeling terrible.

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I don't know if it is my fault and how I can solve this problem, but

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when I wake up in the morning I realise that this is not from me

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but I have to find a solution as a Dina Kriara works in the pharmacy

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dispensing medicines. But there's a vicious irony here. She herself has

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a potentially fatal heart problem and despite being surrounded by

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drugs, she struggles to obtain the ones she needs. TRANSLATION: Even

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as we speak, I haven't had my medications for this month. I can't

:14:25.:14:35.
:14:35.:14:35.

live without them. I need them. you frightened? Yes, I am very

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Pharmacies without medicines, schools without books and families

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without food. Greece is failing against these fundamental measures

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of civilisation. Will this really be the country in which my

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grandchildren will grow up? Where some say it's even worse than it

:14:57.:15:04.

was under the generals? How can The public coffers are empty, yet

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vast private wealth remains evident here. But just try getting the rich

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If the myth of Midas serves as one useful metaphor for what's happened

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to Greece, the myth of Sisyphus might serve as another. He's the

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bloke, you'll remember, who was given the job of rolling the

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boulder up the hill and every time he got anywhere near the top, it

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rolled right back down again. Diomidis Spinellis can relate to

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that. He's a professor of software engineering and he was asked by the

:15:40.:15:45.

Greek government to help get people to pay their taxes. He designed a

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system to identify potential evaders, particularly among the

:15:47.:15:55.

very rich. When I started in 2009, I was extremely optimistic. I saw a

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number of low-hanging fruit I thought I can just grab them and

:15:58.:16:02.

it's a done deal. Because you see people, for instance, having flashy

:16:02.:16:06.

cars. Why shouldn't they have a flashy tax return, indicating that

:16:06.:16:09.

they are doing their bit to help the state? But when Spinellis told

:16:09.:16:13.

the government and the tax offices what was going on, nothing happened.

:16:13.:16:15.

Exasperated, he designed a second programme to monitor the tax

:16:15.:16:25.

collectors themselves. They didn't like that. Some wanted to guard the

:16:25.:16:27.

corrupt culture of kickbacks with which they feathered their own

:16:27.:16:33.

nests. Spinellis was sued by the tax collectors' union. If the tax

:16:33.:16:35.

collectors themselves don't accept that things are so badly wrong and

:16:35.:16:42.

must be changed, how will it ever be changed? By the end of my term I

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was considering that the exisiting system cannot be changed gradually

:16:45.:16:50.

in such a way. It would have been better to create a new tax

:16:50.:16:55.

collection authority. So you wanted an earthquake in effect. You wanted

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to blow the whole thing up and start again and what we've seen is

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a tremor. I think an earthquake is needed in order to bring the system

:17:03.:17:07.

under control. It would bring a great amount of revenue, in the

:17:07.:17:11.

order of 10 billion euros. In other words, it would make a significant

:17:11.:17:15.

contribution to ending the crisis that Greece is in now. Yes, it

:17:15.:17:25.
:17:25.:17:25.

would. But it's not happening. Seeing the way Greece has been

:17:25.:17:28.

governed by the two main parties over the years reminds me of the

:17:28.:17:32.

way some of the worst local councils in Britain were run when I

:17:32.:17:36.

was a young reporter. But this is a country with an ancient history,

:17:36.:17:40.

strategically important, whose future matters to all of us. Can it

:17:40.:17:48.

One man who benefitted from the Greek boom is Konstantine Michalos.

:17:48.:17:50.

He's an influential businessmen and now President of the Chambers of

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Commerce. Where is the evidence that the Greek people are prepared

:17:57.:18:01.

to say, "OK, we will do things differently from now on?" First of

:18:01.:18:05.

all, let's get one thing right. This is not a Greek crisis and I

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think that this has been proved very clearly over the last few

:18:08.:18:13.

months when we've seen economic powers such as Italy or Spain...

:18:13.:18:16.

It's not exclusively a Greek crisis, I will grant you that, but you are

:18:16.:18:21.

in an enormous mess. Yes, I will agree that Greece is responsible

:18:21.:18:28.

for its own internal affairs. We didn't use the European funds in

:18:28.:18:32.

the correct way. It was squandered and there was corruption and all

:18:32.:18:36.

the rest of it, so my question remains. How do you change that

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mentality, what is the evidence that it's changing? By changing the

:18:39.:18:42.

political system in Greece. You cannot possibly convince the Greek

:18:42.:18:45.

people with politicians that are the main reason, the cause that has

:18:45.:18:51.

brought us where we are today. who are totally discredited.

:18:51.:18:54.

Precisely, because those who have brought us to where we are today

:18:54.:19:02.

cannot possibly be expected to be But after last weekend's general

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election, it's the old guard running the show once again. New

:19:06.:19:09.

Democracy and Pasok in coalition, the very parties who got Greece

:19:09.:19:16.

into this mess over the past four decades. This is a victory for all

:19:16.:19:21.

Europe. I will make sure that the sacrifices of the Greek people will

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bring the country back to But how much more sacrifice will

:19:28.:19:32.

Greece tolerate? Of those who voted, most were against the austerity

:19:32.:19:37.

package. There's now a powerful opposition in parliament. The left-

:19:37.:19:41.

wing grouping called SYRIZA swore to rip up the bail out plan. They

:19:41.:19:46.

came a close second. And on the extreme right, Golden Dawn cemented

:19:46.:19:51.

the gains they made last time with a worrying 7% of the popular vote.

:19:51.:20:01.

At this rally, Afghan immigrants are protesting against what they

:20:01.:20:09.

They feel they've been made a political scapegoat for the

:20:09.:20:14.

country's troubles. But when Golden Dawn invited us to film them before

:20:14.:20:24.
:20:24.:20:29.

the election, they tried to sell us Things had got so bad, they said,

:20:29.:20:39.
:20:39.:20:40.

that little old ladies asked to be I'm scared. They hit me, they pinch.

:20:40.:20:47.

Who are they? Pakistan. Not Greek people. No, no, never. It's not a

:20:47.:20:52.

Greek. And this people, it's all right, when I want to go to the

:20:52.:20:59.

bank they come with me. I don't worry. The Golden Dawn MP, Giani

:20:59.:21:02.

Vouldis, boasted to me that it took his men to rid this neighbourhood

:21:02.:21:12.
:21:12.:21:14.

TRANSLATION: They asked for Golden Dawn's help so we helped.

:21:14.:21:16.

Eventually there were fewer immigrants and with police

:21:16.:21:23.

assisting in the end, we cleared the square out. What about

:21:24.:21:26.

Pakistanis or Indians or Africans who have come to live in Greece

:21:26.:21:36.
:21:36.:21:41.

legally? TRANSLATION: There aren't any legal ones, or very few. They

:21:41.:21:43.

pretend they come from countries with internal problems like war,

:21:43.:21:53.

persecution and they stay here creating ghettos. Do you regard

:21:53.:22:01.

fascism as an evil doctrine? things that Hitler did, if we're

:22:01.:22:06.

talking about here in Greece, of course they were bad. On the other

:22:06.:22:10.

hand, history's always written by the winners. You don't believe that

:22:10.:22:12.

Hitler created the ultimate crime against the Jewish people, the

:22:13.:22:22.

crime of genocide? I don't know. You don't know? I don't know, but

:22:22.:22:31.

everyone has the right to Golden Dawn's emergence, in this of

:22:31.:22:33.

all countries, where Nazi occupation survives in living

:22:33.:22:36.

memory, is alarming, but for every choreographed PR stunt like the one

:22:36.:22:45.

I saw, there's been a high-profile media blunder. Like when one of

:22:45.:22:48.

their MPs assaulted a woman on national television and went on the

:22:48.:22:58.
:22:58.:22:59.

This party now hold 18 seats in the It's not only the far right that's

:22:59.:23:02.

benefitted from this crisis. People distrust conventional politics and

:23:02.:23:05.

the danger is that violence like these street scenes from last

:23:05.:23:15.
:23:15.:23:18.

The people of Athens are well used to the sight of riot police on

:23:18.:23:23.

their streets. These are a pretty permanent fixture on the border of

:23:23.:23:25.

Athens' Exarcheia neighbourhood, where ordinary police officers no

:23:25.:23:31.

longer patrol because they're nervous of stirring up trouble. I

:23:31.:23:35.

met with a group of young activists here last week. What happened at

:23:35.:23:39.

the election is precisely what they told me they would not tolerate.

:23:39.:23:45.

With half of all under 25s out of work, what they want is revolution.

:23:45.:23:50.

All revolutions are almost always preceded by violence. At what point

:23:50.:23:59.

are young people in Greece going to take to the streets? TRANSLATION:

:23:59.:24:07.

400 euro salaries and unemployment are acts of violence. Under these

:24:07.:24:10.

terms, we advocate an uprising. This is a crisis of capitalism

:24:10.:24:15.

itself. It's a crisis of that system of producing and consuming

:24:15.:24:18.

and I believe that most young people, they try to think of

:24:18.:24:28.
:24:28.:24:28.

Anger at measures that young people feel have robbed them of their

:24:28.:24:33.

future may well fuel more unrest. And things are not going to get

:24:33.:24:37.

better. A fifth of all public sector workers are set to be laid

:24:37.:24:45.

off - the equivalent of a million So are you saying that this in a

:24:45.:24:54.

way is the lost generation in Greece? For sure. Of course our

:24:54.:25:01.

generation is a generation that have nothing. There are no futures,

:25:01.:25:08.

no jobs, no work, no universities, no public health, nothing. You have

:25:08.:25:13.

just to rise up and fight for some things that we need for living. For

:25:13.:25:23.

The spirit of resistance has never died in Greece. If one man embodies

:25:23.:25:26.

that spirit, it is Manolis Glezos, a national hero who can't walk the

:25:26.:25:36.
:25:36.:25:37.

He's the man who risked his life tearing down the swastika from the

:25:37.:25:40.

Acropolis in 1943, who fought in the civil war, who was locked up by

:25:40.:25:43.

the military junta, who was elected to the European parliament, and who

:25:43.:25:53.
:25:53.:25:56.

is still fighting, still And still in tune with the people

:25:56.:25:59.

of Greece in his loathing of what everyone here calls the troika, the

:25:59.:26:05.

EU, the European Central Bank and the IMF. They are seen as the

:26:05.:26:09.

oppressors. And at the heart of the troika is, of course, the old enemy,

:26:09.:26:19.
:26:19.:26:21.

Germany. I met Mr Glezos before the TRANSLATION: Of course today

:26:21.:26:28.

there's no occupation. Are German soldiers here? No. But the German

:26:28.:26:36.

mentality prevails. The Greek people are not responsible for the

:26:36.:26:43.

crisis. It was caused by the financial system. The Greeks didn't

:26:43.:26:47.

fuel it, yet they were forced by the troika and its agents to stump

:26:47.:26:49.

up, to cut pensions, benefits and salaries, all that they've gained

:26:49.:26:59.
:26:59.:27:09.

so far. But many people on the outside, in Germany, in Britain and

:27:09.:27:12.

many other countries, look at Greece and say it is at least

:27:12.:27:15.

partly the fault of the Greek people because they haven't paid

:27:15.:27:22.

their taxes. They wanted the good life without paying the bills.

:27:22.:27:26.

Greek people pay their taxes. It's big capital that doesn't pay tax,

:27:26.:27:29.

the bankers don't pay tax, the financial institutions don't pay

:27:29.:27:39.
:27:39.:27:42.

This country has suffered three great crises just in my life time.

:27:42.:27:47.

Nazi occupation, civil war, military dictatorship. It overcame

:27:47.:27:49.

all that, embraced democracy and for the last generation, it's

:27:49.:27:56.

enjoyed a period of unprecedented stability and prosperity. The

:27:56.:28:03.

danger of this present crisis is Greece has a new government

:28:03.:28:08.

committed to austerity. It believes there is no alternative. As the

:28:08.:28:11.

cuts bite ever deeper, the people of Greece may take a different view

:28:11.:28:21.

and if they do, it will have Next week, Panorama goes undercover

:28:21.:28:24.

Veteran reporter John Humphrys has enjoyed a 20-year love affair with Greece, which is home to his son and grandchildren. With the debt-laden country voting in a new election which could signpost the future of Europe, Humphrys meets ordinary Greeks to investigate the harsh truth about the austerity measures which have helped bring the country to its current crisis.