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This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find | :00:42. | :00:49. | |
upsetting. Badgers should be dying here and | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
now. The Government wanted them killed to hold the spread of a | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
killer disease - tuberculosis. Thousands of cattle are being | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
slaughtered each year to fight this infection. There is no question | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
about it - the reason why my cows have TB is badgers. Farmers have | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
long blamed badgers for spreading TB to their cattle. The Government | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
backed them and authorised a cull. But the guns have remained silent | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
in what many see as another Government U-turn. So, with their | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
fingers on the trigger, why didn't they fire? Was it the strength of | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
opposition? We are not going to stand by and witness the abysmal | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
slaughter of these creatures. it intimidation of farmers? I hope | :01:33. | :01:41. | |
you die in a fire you sick (BLEEP), (BLEEP), (BLEEP). If that isn't a | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
threatening text, I don't know what is. Was it a dispute over the | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
science? Badger-culling can make no meaningful contribution to the | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
control of TB in cattle in Britain - end of story. Panorama reveals | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
the inside story of the badger cull and asks whether, as the Government | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
insists, it will happen next year. If we do not do this, we are | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
condemning our cattle industry to a hopeless future. I'm not prepared | :02:06. | :02:16. | |
:02:16. | :02:30. | ||
"The Mole had long wanted to make the acquaintance of the Badger. The | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
Wind in the Willows has charmed generations by giving its animal | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
cast such human characters, none more so than "Dear, Old Badger", | :02:42. | :02:51. | |
described as gruff and someone who "simply hates society". So an | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
animal few of us have ever seen gets a big, noble personality. We | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
have long been a nation of animal lovers. But the riverside | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
adventures of Badger and Co have had a deeper significance, | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
inspiring generations to nurture and cherish Britain's wildlife. | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
Towards the end of the last century, popular affection was joined by | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
legal protection. An Act of Parliament makes it illegal to kill, | :03:19. | :03:26. | |
injury or remove badgers from their setts. So with no natural predators, | :03:26. | :03:33. | |
badgers have gone forth and multiplied. For the last 25 years, | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
a rise in their numbers has coincided with an increase in | :03:38. | :03:45. | |
tuberculosis in cattle. Though mainly a disease afflicting cows, | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
bovine TB can infect a variety of animals and badgers are significant | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
carriers. It is passed from cattle to cattle, from badger to badger, | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
and between the two. This is how the Government wants to deal with | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
badgers. Until a few weeks ago, marksmen were being trained to | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
shoot them at night in a plan to kill three-quarters of the badger | :04:07. | :04:14. | |
population. In two secret pilot areas, one in Gloucestershire, the | :04:14. | :04:21. | |
other in Somerset. Each zone was around 300 square kilometres. But | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
from the off, animal rights activists took to the countryside, | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
battle lines were being drawn. Threatening to be the largest clash | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
since fox-hunting was banned. At the 11th hour, with both sides dug | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
in, the Government stopped the cull in its tracks, delaying it until | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
next year. Was this another U-turn? There has been absolutely no change | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
to policy. We are quite determined to go ahead with two pilot culls, | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
but we need to do them under the right conditions and we need to do | :04:57. | :05:04. | |
them in a way that they have absolute scientific integrity. | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
what motivates a policy that involves killing such a well-loved | :05:08. | :05:15. | |
animal? New cases of TB have doubled since 2000. Most cattle | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
farmers think shooting badgers will protect their herds and reverse the | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
trend. For almost a century, the Barton family have been farming | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
this corner of the Cotswolds. Today, David Barton runs a herd of 150 | :05:33. | :05:40. | |
beef cows. But beneath beauty lurks disease. This place is a TB hotspot. | :05:40. | :05:46. | |
This bull calf, given a girl's name by David's daughter, is a victim. | :05:46. | :05:54. | |
Gertrude is a product of the T "B" testing regime that we have. His | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
mother failed the test in February. He will be tested in a couple of | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
weeks' time. If he fails the test, he will be slaughtered. As farmers, | :06:04. | :06:12. | |
we are basically animal lovers. We love our animals. When TB strikes, | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
it is heartbreaking. It really is. Infected badgers are thought to | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
pass TB to cattle through saliva, faeces or urine. If cows and | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
badgers share grazing, they can pick up the infection. For David, | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
it is clear which is to blame. Without doubt, the main host of TB | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
is badgers. I have five or six badger setts across the grazing | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
that these cattle have to share. Nowhere in the world have they | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
managed to control TB without controlling the wildlife reservoir. | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
I empathise with people who are opposed to the cull because it is | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
very, it is the sort of thing that no-one wants to do, but it is | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
necessary to control this horrible disease. Last year, 34,000 cattle | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
were slaughtered to control TB, costing the taxpayer a bill of �100 | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
million annually. So without further disease control, we could | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
be paying �1 billion in the next decade. To fight the disease and | :07:14. | :07:22. | |
cut the cost, the Government settled on its badger cull policy. | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
Culling badgers does give a reduction of TB in cattle over a | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
period of years. If you cull effectively, and over a long enough | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
period, you can get a benefit in reducing TB in cattle. | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
Government expects the cull will mean around 16% fewer cattle herds | :07:42. | :07:49. | |
going down with TB over the next nine years. But does that justify | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
killing thousands of badgers and infuriating Britain's badger-loving | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
public? Good morning, everybody. Thank you for coming. It is lovely | :07:58. | :08:07. | |
to see so many of you here. Pauline Kidner runs Secret World Wildlife | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
Rescue in Somerset. Badgers are amongst her most treasured patients. | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
I have always been amazed by how people are attracted to them. That | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
has to be they are probably the closest thing to a teddy bear when | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
they are young. I think I care about badgers very much because | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
they are such misunderstood animals. They are fascinating creatures. | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
Pauline once ran a dairy farm herself and feels the farmers' pain | :08:33. | :08:39. | |
but doesn't agree with culling as a cure. I totally, totally understand | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
the emotional and the financial side of a bovine TB outbreak on a | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
farm. But believe me, as far as I'm concerned, killing badgers never | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
has and never will be the answer to this problem. While accepting | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
badgers can give TB to cows, she believes most infections on farms | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
arise from cattle spreading the disease among themselves. One of | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
the things you have to remember is that if you reduce the disease in | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
cattle, and it is a bovine disease, it is not a wildlife disease, it is | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
a cattle disease, and if you reduce the incidents of TB in cattle, it | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
automatically reduces in wildlife. The Government insists it is | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
already tackling the cattle side. Movement restrictions and testing | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
will tighten further in the New Year, so that leaves the badgers. | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
Several weeks before the cull was due to begin, I was invited to meet | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
one of the marksmen who would be doing the shooting. He insisted on | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
remaining anonymous for fear of reprisal by animal rights activists. | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
How much training have you had? Well, I went on a detailed training | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
course. It was a mixture of theory and practical sessions. I had to | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
complete an exam at the end of it. I was tested on how I could shoot | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
at 70 metres. You will be shooting them from here, would you? Is this | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
range crucial? The range is crucial. We can't shoot them any further | :10:11. | :10:18. | |
than 70 metres. Pitted against the marksmen were anti-cull campaigners | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
who had spent months combing the countryside for clues about where | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
the shooting would happen. There is another entrance here. How can it | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
be that people who live in those cull zones can't find out they are | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
inside the cull zone, when it is going to take place, who is | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
responsible for it? The Government refused to answer any questions. | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
Jay Tiernan made it his mission to get answers. The campaign we are | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
running is very much along the lines of exposing secrets. Huge | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
volumes of our information come from phone blagging, which is when | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
you trick people into giving you information by pretending someone | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
who you are not. You pretend to be a journalist, someone from Natural | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
England, someone from the NFU. Then you build-up their trust and you | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
ring them and you keep talking to them over a period of days. And get | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
critical information that is useful to you? Lots of information. For | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
every five people that you ring, maybe two of them won't talk to you. | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
More than half will talk. Once he knew where the cull would happen, | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
activists pasted up warnings and posters asking for help. Word | :11:29. | :11:36. | |
spread and more anti-cull campaigners took to the field. | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
don't know how the cull is going to be carried out. We are pretty sure | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
it will involve a man pointing a gun at a badger. Hopefully, we can | :11:46. | :11:53. | |
get in the way of that and stop it. Veterans proved they could still | :11:53. | :11:58. | |
mobilise in numbers and town halls filled up, too, as campaigners | :11:58. | :12:07. | |
stepped up to the soapbox. badgers have no vote. They have no | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
voice. We are not going to stand by and witness the abysmal slaughter | :12:14. | :12:23. | |
of these creatures for no tangible decent purpose whatsoever. One of | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
the biggest opposition guns was the head of the RSPCA. The spotlight of | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
attention will be turned on those marksmen and on those that give | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
permission for this cull to take place. They will be named and we | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
will decide as citizens of this country whether they will be shamed. | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
Fiery words from the leader of an organisation whose patron is Her | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
Majesty the Queen. For activists, exposing the people behind the cull | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
was key. The first real coup for Jay's campaign was tracking down | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
the names and addresses of directors of the two secret | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
companies running the cull and publishing them on the internet. | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
Contact details also went online. Government lawyers got tough, | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
winning an injunction forcing the removal of those personal details. | :13:17. | :13:22. | |
You have published the names and addresses of people organising this | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
cull. Surely there is a danger of personal reprisal on them which you | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
will then be partly responsible for? No, I won't be partly | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
responsible for any reprisals on them. They will be responsible for | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
it for organising a cull on badgers. You don't accept you are increasing | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
the risk by publishing their names and addresses? Not at all. That is | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
not how this farmer saw it. What security measures have you had to | :13:49. | :13:55. | |
take? You can see one of them up here is the CCTV camera. That is it | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
there? He is a director of the company which was organising the | :13:58. | :14:04. | |
cull in Gloucestershire. When my name went up on the Badgerkillers | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
website, we got some nasty, threatening texts and letters. | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
I have a look? Yes, by all means. I have a file here that I have kept | :14:13. | :14:21. | |
the worst of them in. There's a text here, you can see. It is | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
opening up. I hope you die in a fire you sick (BLEEP), (BLEEP), | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
(BLEEP). Are you planning to disappear or change your name so | :14:30. | :14:36. | |
that I can find you? I'm sure they will. I will be happy to read about | :14:36. | :14:41. | |
the justice they will give to you. At no point, were you threatened in | :14:41. | :14:46. | |
this entire text - ha, ha, ha. that isn't a threatening text, I | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
don't know what is. You have a family here? Yes. Grandchildren | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
come and visit regularly. And it just does worry you, that is | :14:54. | :15:00. | |
another one. My funeral plan that's been ordered for me. Obviously, | :15:00. | :15:07. | |
somebody has made a fictitious enquiry in my name. It is the | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
insinuation behind it. It does shake you. It shakes you a lot at | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
the time. Given this intimidation, does the RSPCA boss still stand by | :15:16. | :15:26. | |
I was at a meeting in Tewkesbury where you called for the | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
identification of the farmers and marksmen involved in the cull. | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
called for the identification of the farms. That is splitting hairs. | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
Certainly not. I am totally opposed to personal intimidation. Why did | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
you call for the identification of farmers involved in a cull? I have | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
not called for the identification of any individual. The RSPCA is a | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
responsible organisation and I am a responsible leader. I think there | :15:51. | :15:55. | |
is a groundswell of opinion in communities across the nation and | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
in Parliament that this is the wrong solution to the difficult | :15:57. | :16:07. | |
:16:07. | :16:09. | ||
Many members of the public agree, and their opinions were amplified | :16:09. | :16:19. | |
by a rock star. Queen guitarist Brian May. We have no war to fight | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
with the farmers. We are fighting bovine TB. His online petition | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
gained 160,000 signatures and forced a debate in Parliament, | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
which the Government overwhelmingly lost, but they are not bound by it. | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
Brian May's garden doubles as a wildlife sanctuary and most | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
evenings he checks who is visiting. He believes that the badger cull is | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
simply not ethical. To me it is black and white. It is down to | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
moral issues, down to whether people think it is worthwhile | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
sacrificing the life of thousands of innocent creatures to get what | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
is essentially a marginal improvement, perhaps, in the | :16:58. | :17:06. | |
mortality rate of cattle, which will be slaughtered three years | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
later anyway. For farmer David Barton, the death of his animals | :17:11. | :17:18. | |
may come rather sooner. His farm remained clear of TB until 2001. He | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
has suffered five outbreaks in the last decade. We want to keep one | :17:22. | :17:32. | |
:17:32. | :17:33. | ||
ready. He now has a test every 60 days. They are black days. I think | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
they enjoyed a testing about as much as I do. In the last eight | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
years, the number of cattle slaughtered to two TB has gone up | :17:43. | :17:53. | |
by 50%. They are running at 200 new herds every year in Gloucestershire. | :17:53. | :18:01. | |
She is a reactive. What is that? Another one with TB, that is two so | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
far. He says that the cows going down with TB are in there herd that | :18:06. | :18:13. | |
spent the winter grazing outside with the badgers. Those that spent | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
the winter indoors are clear of infection. No farmer wants to see | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
the badgers cold. The problem is there is no question about it. The | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
reason why they have got TB is badgers. Can I tell you why? The | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
cows live outside 10 months of the year and they are the ones going | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
down with TB, living with a reservoir in the wildlife. A red | :18:36. | :18:44. | |
stripe marks those with TB. They have now just days to live. 10 days | :18:44. | :18:52. | |
later, the slaughterman arrived. The cows to be shot have been | :18:52. | :19:02. | |
:19:02. | :19:21. | ||
separated from their cards. -- from Well, I feel sick, to be honest. It | :19:21. | :19:30. | |
is a terrible waste of good breeding stock. Beef herds has been | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
my life's work, and I started when I was 19 and it is incredibly | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
distressing for me. I am not sure whether I want to continue with | :19:38. | :19:48. | |
this. It is so upsetting. Struggling through hard times, | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
farmers like David clung to the hope that the cull was imminent. A | :19:52. | :19:59. | |
solution at last to end their TB nightmare. But is there another | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
solution that involves medicine not marksmen? The cattle vaccine is | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
being developed. Brian May joined the head of the RSPCA in a visit to | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
Brussels to try to persuade the EU to allow its use. For me the Holy | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
Grail of this is to vaccinate the cows. It is almost a no-brainer. Of | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
course we should. If it was our children, we would be vaccinating | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
before we can say Jack Robinson. The European Commission has ruled | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
out a cattle vaccine for the foreseeable future because of | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
difficulties telling the difference between an animal with the disease | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
and one that has been vaccinated. would love it if I had a vaccine. I | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
could press a button this evening and say vaccinate. Sadly at the | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
moment we are still in the early stages of development. There will | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
be quite a lengthy process of proving it those vaccines in the | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
field. For the time being I have to use the tools at my disposal and | :20:57. | :21:06. | |
one of those is to bear down on disease and wildlife by culling. | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
But does culling really work? In the 1990s, a ten-year trial began | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
involving trapping and shooting badgers. Thousands were killed. The | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
Government says that those deaths reduced to be in cattle over all. | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
That is the scientific justification for the current | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
culling policy. -- reduced TB in cattle overall. Dr Chris Cheeseman | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
worked on the trial. He disputes this and believe that culling can | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
make things worse. One of the effects is to increase the movement | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
of badgers 526 bold. Instead of travelling over 50 hectares, it | :21:46. | :21:53. | |
might be 300. -- 5 to six fold. In doing that, they contact more | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
badgers and so the rate goes up, and the spread of TB goes up. | :21:59. | :22:05. | |
ten-year trial found that while culling badgers could cut TB in | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
badgers inside the cull zone, the benefits did not stretch very far. | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
In the heart of the culling area there was a decrease of TB of 25% | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
and on the edge there was an increase because of the disruptive | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
effects of culling of about the same amount. There is positive and | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
negative effects pretty much cancelled each other out. The | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
scientific committee that oversaw the trial concluded that badger | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
culling can make no meaningful contribution to the control of TB | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
in cattle in Britain, end of story. And he is not alone. In the final | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
days before the cull was due to start, some of the country's | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
leading animal disease scientists wrote to the Observer newspaper, | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
publicly condemning the Government's position. 30 | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
scientists, experts in the area, have written a letter saying that | :22:58. | :23:05. | |
you have got the policy wrong. What do you say to that? The scientists | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
agree with the results of the trial, which is that if you cull | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
effectively and over a long enough period, you can get a benefit in | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
reducing TB in cattle. Can you give me some names of scientists that | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
back your view? I think that I will not do those scientists the | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
disservice of possibly putting forward their views. They can put | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
forward their own views. We are seeing scientists offering an | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
opinion about whether that is deliverable. When the | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
interpretation of the science is so hotly-contested, cannot be relied | :23:42. | :23:48. | |
upon to justify the cull? -- can it be relied upon? Science has done a | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
lot to tell us about the disease but it cannot give us a definitive | :23:52. | :23:57. | |
answer on whether it you should cull or not. The science suggests | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
that culling of badgers will give a modest decrease in the instances of | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
TB. Whether that is enough to justify the harm that will be done | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
to the badger population cannot be judged by science. It is | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
essentially a political decision. As the cull was about to get under | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
way, the politician in charge did make a decision. | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
Controversial plans to start killing thousands of badgers in | :24:25. | :24:28. | |
England to try to stop the spread of tuberculosis in cattle have been | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
put on hold until at least next year. Today why have received a | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
letter from the President of the NFU, explaining why they do not | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
feel they can go ahead this year. What was it that finally stopped | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
the cull? Ironically the killer blow came not from scientists, | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
public pressure or intimidation, but from inside the Government | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
itself. With just days to go before the cull was due to start, the | :24:58. | :25:05. | |
agency in charge of licensing it discovered a number of -- the | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
number of badgers had been delivered and the underestimated. | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
Results of the survey suggested there were double the number of | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
badgers in the cull zones, meaning twice the work and cost for those | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
involved in killing them. They realised it could not be done. | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
in the day we learned the numbers were double the previous estimates. | :25:24. | :25:30. | |
That put us on the back food. If we got this wrong, because of the time | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
lines and the numbers of badgers involved, we failed to meet the | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
targets, then we would destroy the policy for ever and the issue of TB | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
is far too important for us as an industry to take that risk. | :25:43. | :25:49. | |
many farmers, a year's delay means another year coping with TB. I felt | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
angry, frustrated, incredibly disappointed, bearing in mind that | :25:53. | :26:00. | |
I had just loaded three lorryloads of cattle TB reactors to be | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
slaughtered. I was incredibly disappointed. How confident are you | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
that this is a delay and not a prelude to cancellation? I am very | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
confident that it is just a delay. Can you imagine the Government | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
making a U-turn? Quite! I think it will happen for sure. Farmers' | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
leaders question whether the Government agency that licensed the | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
cull, Natural England, it really supports it. It is so important | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
that Natural England can demonstrate that within that big | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
organisation they are not people that just like the polities so much | :26:37. | :26:47. | |
:26:47. | :26:48. | ||
that they want it to fail. -- there are not people that just dislike | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
the policy so much. Natural England says they are committed to working | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
with Government policy. But we have found people that work to undermine | :26:57. | :27:04. | |
the cull. You did leak people's names? Yes, I passed on any | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
information from any source because it added to the understanding of | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
the big picture. And you are happy with that? I am happy to do | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
something that will stop an activity going on that is going to | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
be a complete disaster for the farming community from so many | :27:19. | :27:25. | |
aspects. Can a those same agencies be trusted to deliver the promised | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
cull? Officially the cull will begin any time from June next year. | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
Whether that actually happens depends on the political will of | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
those inside Westminster. I am completely determined the two | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
pilots will go ahead and that this is the right policy. Would you put | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
your career on it? I am determined. I have been put year by the Prime | :27:49. | :27:57. | |
Minister to help galvanise the rural economy and improve the | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
environment. I cannot think of anything that will improve that | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
industry and the environment better than this. Fighting talk. It will | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
reassure some and horrify others. Am optimistic that it will not go | :28:09. | :28:14. | |
ahead but we have to prepare as if it is. That is how we have always | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
done it, to carry on working as if it is, and that is how we will | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
carry on. It is the badger is causing the disease in my cattle | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
and I'm absolutely sure of that. Less it is sorted out, the | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
situation is hopeless. The Government is hell bent on killing | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
badgers. They just want to kill badgers and we have to make sure | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
they do not make that mistake because it will be a big mistake. | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
If the Government goes ahead, there will be no let-up from protesters. | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
2012 turned out to be a dress rehearsal, and exercise where both | :28:45. | :28:52. | |
sides could sharpen their tactics before the battle next year. | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
Although animals will be in the line of fire, there will be plenty | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
of raw human anguish. Tomorrow night we followed the | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
brain injured patients communicating for the first time | :29:04. | :29:10. |