Pontrhydfendigaid Pawb a'i Farn

.

On our panel tonight - the entertainer, broadcaster

and agriculturalist, Ifan Gruffydd.

The Labour MP for Llanelli since 2005, Nia Griffith.

The Conservative AM for Preseli Pembrokeshire, Paul Davies.

And from Aberystwyth University,

the director of the Mercator Media Centre, Elin Haf Gruffydd Jones.

Please welcome them.

APPLAUSE

Good evening and welcome to a new series of Pawb a'i Farn.

The series will run until Easter and I must say,

it's nice to be back on the road

and visit the hearts of Welsh communities once again.

We're starting in Ceredigion, in Pontrhydfendigaid,

and our audience is made up of people from the area who have come here

to Pontrhydfendigaid Pavilion.

We certainly have plenty to discuss.

This year, you can join in the discussion on Twitter.

Yes, Pawb a'i Farn has discovered that medium.

The address is on your screen now.

If you'd like to be a member of the audience,

our next two programmes will come from Rhyl and Llanelli.

But tonight, we're in Pontrhydfendigaid,

and our first question comes from Brynmor John.

Brynmor, what's your question?

-Brynmor Morgan.

-Brynmor Morgan, I'm sorry.

-Thank you, Dewi.

Did the panel agree with the decision

made by public sector workers to go on strike yesterday?

After all, whatever changes are made,

they will have excellent pensions.

The first question of the night,

and the first question of the series from Brynmor Morgan.

Did the panel agree with the decision made by public sector workers

to go on strike yesterday?

After all, whatever changes are made, they will have excellent pensions.

Nia Griffith, let's start with you.

The right to strike is a basic part of a democratic society.

But what's very sad is the fact that the Tory Government

has created a situation where responsible and reasonable workers

think that there's no solution but to go on strike.

It's very sad because the Government has failed to negotiate.

Workers know that back in 2008,

we sorted out and reorganised pension plans

so that they were sustainable and affordable.

We changed the system.

We changed it in 2008.

Workers can now see that they're going to pay 3% more income tax.

A lot of them, of course, are on low incomes,

and they're now having to pay £30 a month.

We'll get to that later. Did yesterday's strike have any effect?

What's very important is that they had a right to strike.

-It's very sad...

-It might be sad but did the strike have any effect?

We need to get the Government back to the table

and I don't see much hope with this Government.

Paul Davies, Nia says more discussions are needed.

The discussions continue, of course.

The discussions have been ongoing for months.

But let me say from the start that public sector staff

do very good work, sometimes in very difficult conditions.

It think it's sad that this strike was led by trade union leaders

because the discussions were ongoing

and it seems that this strike was organised months ago in September.

But you can't blame the leaders. There was support for it.

There were up to two million people on strike.

Since September, the Government has moved significantly on this issue.

The Government has made that clear.

-It made a very generous offer back in...

-Not to young people.

Young people are finding it difficult to pay their bills now.

What you have to remember

is that the former Labour pensions secretary, Lord Hutton,

has said himself that this is a generous offer.

Nia, do you want to respond?

If you make an offer, you have to discuss what's there.

The discussions are ongoing.

In 2008, we made the pensions sustainable.

If you look at the figures, you'll see that teachers, for example,

that teachers paid a lot more in than they received from the system.

But do you accept that some kind of change is needed?

With regard to pensions, do you accept that a change is needed?

What we accept is that we did it for public pensions in 2008.

We don't even know if the Labour Party

supported the strike or opposed it.

I'm not surprised that the Labour Party

isn't sure what it's position is

because 90% of Labour's income is funded by the trade unions.

But the fact that two million people were on strike

shows that your policy was condemned.

Some of those were head teachers

that wouldn't have dreamt of taking action before today.

The reality is, the Government has moved significantly on this issue.

It has made it clear that people who earn less than £15,000

won't be affected by these changes.

And also, it won't affect people who are within 10 years of retirement.

Let's hear from the other two panel members.

-As someone who works in the public sector, were you on strike?

-I was.

I took part in the march that took place in Aberystwyth.

I saw a number of familiar faces there.

People who, as far as I know, haven't been on strikes before.

The NAHT had never been on strike before in its 140 year-history.

This show how strongly people feel that public sector workers

have been paying in to their pensions

but they, or we, won't be getting what is then owed to us.

I believe the Government is making the wrong move here.

They're trying to set public sector workers

against private sector workers.

We all live within the same society.

In this area, the public sector is very important

to the success of the private sector.

We also know that in the private sector,

there are some very poor pensions at the bottom of the ladder.

But they can be very generous at the top.

We don't want...

..public sector pensions to head in the same direction.

If something, the opposite.

Do you accept at all that changes need to be made?

The current system is unsustainable.

With teachers' pensions, according to the latest survey

of the sustainability of those pensions,

they are sustainable.

The deal was done some years ago.

The policies on the table now are an extra tax for the public sector.

But it is also misleading.

It's not just the people who earn less than £15,000 a year

who will be worse off, but those whose earnings are less.

They may be working part-time. 90% of those are women.

You can answer that, Paul, in just a moment.

Ifan, you're self employed. Do you have sympathy for those on strike?

If I went on strike, the only person I'd hurt is myself.

When I saw those schools were shut yesterday,

I just thought back to my own childhood.

I thought it was a pity they hadn't gone on strike back then.

I wished one or two teachers had been on a three-year strike.

It's nice that someone sees the funny side at such a dark time.

Do you have any sympathy?

To be serious, yes. It is one of the rights we have in this country.

That's why we are the country we are.

There are people in the Middle East, in Syria and Egypt,

who are fighting and losing their lives for the rights we have.

That's why the county is doing as well as it is.

The only thing I'd say about the pensions,

I feel promises that have been made 20 years ago should be kept.

Despite the changes seen in the situation?

It's difficult, but they should try to stick to these promises.

The only other thing I can say is if you have a private pension,

promises had been made to you 20 years ago about those.

None of those promises have been kept concerning what comes out.

During the past two months, I've been told it's been a terrible time

if you've been getting your private pension out.

Promises were made 20 years ago that you'd get much more.

So people in the public sector are in a comfortable situation?

I just feel that these people have more faith

in the country's economic situation than I do.

I fear that we could wake up one day and it will be Black Monday...

Brynmor, you asked the question. What do you think?

I have respect for anyone who goes on strike.

That individual must have very strong feelings.

But according to the press,

only 22% of members voted in favour of strike action.

The balance isn't quite right.

I fear the members are being taken like lambs to the slaughter.

Do they know what they're striking over?

Or are they just being led by their union officials?

The sad thing is, at the end of the day, the world has changed.

The money isn't available

in this country, or even in Britain, Europe or the world.

The money isn't there. You can't do what you could do five years ago.

Thank you. You've made your point well.

We have people shaking their heads. You represent a union, is it Unison?

Sorry, yes. My name is Annie James.

Cameron said, we're all in this together. But we're not.

People in central Government in England paid out money to the banks.

But we, as the workforce, now have to work longer and pay more.

But we'll be getting much less. We'll be working until we're 68.

That's not fair. We're not all in this together.

We work hard as my colleague will confirm.

The women who work in the NHS

are looking at getting a pension worth £3,015 a year.

That is not a golden pension in any way.

The situation for Unison is the same.

Touch the pensions and you've got a fight on your hands.

Did you go out on strike?

Yes, I was on strike yesterday.

-Which union are you with?

-PCS.

-The civil servants.

But in the public sector, we now have to pay for the mistakes

the financial sector has made.

We are being punished for something we didn't do.

But people are living longer and people can retire early.

Every independent report has shown

that public sector pensions are affordable.

This idea that we are getting remarkable pensions is wrong.

But it's better than what most people who work in the private sector have.

On average, public sector workers get about £6,000 a year.

But in local government, a woman gets much less.

But in the private sector, the pensions are about the same.

They are already low, but the Government's plans will mean

we see around a 20% cut in our pensions.

And that is just unacceptable.

-Are you ready to go on strike again?

-If the Government doesn't respond.

What about you in the back row?

I run a small business. I work for myself.

I can't afford to get a pension myself.

I've always paid taxes to pay for the public sector's pensions.

They will still be getting a great pension.

But I can't afford to pay for one.

But you are getting the service these people offer.

We are tax payers. You should fight for a private sector pension.

-We should...

-Hold on one moment.

We shouldn't be arguing like this, that's what the Government wants.

We should have fair pensions for everyone.

The Government should legislate for that.

-Ted. What do you have to say?

-I depend on the money I earn.

The money I earn pays for my mortgage.

I can't afford a pension.

So you don't have sympathy for these people on strike?

-Not at all.

-There was someone in the front row, here.

I'll come to you now.

If there are problems with the private sector pensions,

you can't improve those by destroying the public sector's.

It is wrong to say the public sector offers a great pension.

I'm in the teachers' pension scheme.

On average, we're talking of about £10,000 a year.

That isn't excellent.

If you want to talk about an excellent pension,

you should look at someone like Sir Fred Goodwin,

the former Chief Executive of RBS.

-But he's an exception, isn't he?

-I know.

I know he's an exception, but that's an example of an excellent pension

for only 10 years' service,

and when you have teachers with some 40 years' service,

they get a lot less.

Someone wanted to come back to you. You wanted to come back. Let's get the microphone over there. Thanks.

I pay into my own pension. I pay the mortgage, I pay the living costs and everything.

We pay into it. It's like a delayed salary for us.

We pay into it, and we expect to get it when we retire.

Right, OK. You here?

Whether it's right or not to go on strike, if I can return to this figure of 22% who voted,

it's clear that 22% was the majority.

It's up to those others who didn't vote, and the point is...

It wasn't very democratic, some said.

It is democratic, of course, because everyone had the right to vote,

but there wouldn't have been one government since the Second World War

if a majority was needed.

They've all been minority governments, except one.

Right. Does someone else want to contribute? What about some of you farmers... Yes, you there.

Nia Griffith said about this strike that it was to pay young people.

Nobody has said anything about elderly people living on a small pension,

with no hope of getting another pension.

Nobody thinks about them.

They get a £5 raise. That's nothing when you think that you have to live on some £110 a week.

There's no use in these people going on strike.

They haven't had the chance to earn these big salaries.

-So you had no sympathy for those people yesterday.

-No.

None at all. Right, someone else, yes? We've heard from you once, but come on.

People in the public sector haven't had a penny of a pay rise for two years,

and two years to come, and more again.

-Yes.

-And they're facing 700,000 more people out of work.

Yes, but we've been trying to stress that we're going to find it hard to afford this kind of pension

under these new circumstances.

Your question?

What makes me angrier than anything,

forget the strike and everything - it's happened, and hopefully this problem will be solved.

There are people in different government jobs, this needs to be sorted with the unions,

but what makes me angrier than anything is that none of the panellists here tonight

have talked about the shocking amount of money that is spent around the world on wars,

and our country spends more than anyone.

Why can't we keep that money?

Right, let's return to the panel.

APPLAUSE

Lots of points being raised. Paul Davies, you can have the first chance to respond to some of them.

Well, let me start by saying I think it was irresponsible to strike yesterday

while negotiations were still ongoing.

Because what I've heard today from UK Government ministers

is that those negotiations are now very productive,

and that the problem can hopefully be solved quickly...

They might be more productive because of the effect of the strike.

What happened yesterday was that ordinary people were affected,

because we saw schools closing and patients' operations being postponed,

and there was also a cost to the economy.

It seems that the cost to the economy was some £500 million,

and the economy is fragile as it is.

it's important now that the Government and the trade unions keep talking,

-and hopefully these problems can be solved as soon as possible.

-Nia?

I have no confidence at all in the words of the Government,

-because what they've done...

-APPLAUSE

They've said that you're not going to lose anything,

but if you go to the Government's own website,

you can see the figures - you're losing a lot of money,

especially people under 50 years old,

who now can't cope with the bills coming into the household - fuel and food bills, and so on.

They're now going to be paying a great deal more every month as a tax.

They're the ones losing out, and the bankers get to keep their money.

Ifan?

I think we've had some very good years, you know,

and during those years, there was a terrible waste of money.

I always thought of Gordon Brown, fair play, that he looked after our money and jobs.

You know, they say 700,000 will lose their jobs,

and I'll tell you what half those jobs are -

jobs he created for busybodies to look over the shoulders of people trying to make a living...

-APPLAUSE

-..and who were trying to make business in this country.

He's crippled the industry of this country with...

Let's move straight on to a specific question about the economy, and that comes from you, Gwenan Arch.

The Governor of the Bank of England has said today

that the economic situation is serious and threatening.

Is it now obvious that UK Government economic policy has failed?

There we are.

Gwenan asks, the Governor of the Bank of England has said today

that the economic situation is serious and threatening, Sir Mervyn King's gloomy prediction.

Is it now obvious that UK Government economic policy has failed?

That's obviously a question for you specifically, Paul.

Well, you wouldn't expect me to say anything else.

Of course I don't think the UK Government's policy has failed.

But we've heard this week that it doesn't look promising, does it?

Well, we couldn't continue, of course, to build an economy on debt and deficit.

We have to get to grips with those problems,

and that's what George Osborne and the Government have been doing over the last 18 months.

We can't build an economy on a situation like that.

And, of course, bodies like the OECD, the IMF and business organisations,

believe that the UK Government is on the right track in terms of economic policy.

But they'll have to borrow more.

It was announced on Tuesday that we'll have to borrow another £100 million,

after saying that wouldn't happen.

Well, to borrow during that time.

The plan to reduce the deficit and the debt is still on track, and that's what is important.

We have to deal with this.

We can't build an economy by borrowing more money, and that, of course...

You say you can't, but that's exactly what you're going to do.

That's what Ed Balls and the Labour Party have offered, of course,

that we borrow more to try and support the economy.

I think the policies the UK Government has presented to try and grow the private sector,

because that's what we need to do now, over the coming years, do work...

But there's no growth, either.

They have... Well, if we look at what the Government has done -

they've cut corporation tax, they're going to invest in our infrastructure,

we heard the announcement yesterday...

But despite that, there's going to be no growth next year or the year after. Less than 1%.

The reality is, of course, that the economies of Europe and the world are in confusion at the moment,

and of course that affects us...

Right, thanks, Paul. Now, Elin.

Well, I tend to think that what's happened in the last few days

now proves that the cuts that have been made are perhaps too deep and too fast,

and they have led to a total lack of confidence in the economy,

and that the economy is being undermined,

and it's therefore more or less impossible to get any growth.

I think, to some extent,

that the Westminster government has decided on a timetable

which fits in with the next election, to solve this problem,

instead of thinking about what might be the real economic timetable to solve the problem.

We're going back to the question before about pensions.

Pensions, the additional pension contributions, are going to pay the debt...

-APPLAUSE

-..and the reason they want to do it now is to win the next election,

and I think you need to be looking further ahead than just one election to get us out of this.

Right. That's a very serious accusation, Paul.

I want to go to Ifan first. What do you make of this question, Ifan?

Well, it worries me every time I see Mervyn King, to tell the truth.

I can't help... The gentleman is very good at his job,

but he reminds me of Mr Grimsdale in the Norman Wisdom films years ago.

He was always in trouble, poor man, and dealing with Pitkin,

and this man has a lot of Pitkins to deal with, between the banks and the politicians,

but I think he's serious in what he said today.

I do think that the Euro will collapse within a month or two.

They know that there are countries in the Eurozone that will have to be cut out,

and he has told banks in this country to be very careful.

The only thing I worry about is that they'll get too careful now again,

and close the doors too tight on lending to businesses,

but I do think...

You know, I hear no-one saying tonight that we're on the edge of a precipice,

rather like those caravans in South Wales a fortnight ago.

Financially, we are there, I think.

Well, perhaps other people don't believe that. We'll see now. Gwenan?

Yes, I agree with Ifan. I'm in my early twenties, and I do feel that we're on the edge of a precipice.

Whether there's hope in the years to come for young people like me

to get jobs and salaries and things like that.

So this point always comes back to us -

will there be enough jobs and money in this country

to support us as young people?

-Things are looking bleak, you feel?

-Yes.

The final word in the middle, here. Here we are.

Thank you. Off you go.

We're certainly in a situation, not only in the UK,

but also in Europe, where our backs are to the wall.

It's time we looked at this seriously.

The gap between the top and bottom wages is far too big.

We've heard £100 pension for the elderly

and there are plenty of them having to live on that.

But we have huge wages that are not simply over the top...

How would you solve that problem?

Well, in Norway years ago, when I went there, they had a system where

no wages went above a certain level, where the government was in control.

They also had a minimum and it's time we moved

towards that and started cutting our costs. As Selwyn said,

-let's return home from the war.

-Right. Let's go to the front row.

A teacher at Ysgol Gyfun Tregaron.

I don't normally agree with the Labour Party,

but what Ed Balls has been saying this past year has been spot on.

The government's cuts have been too deep and too quick.

They have introduced public sector cuts,

there are also problems in the private sector.

But as a result of that situation, the financial markets

have more respect for Britain than towards Italy, for example.

You look at what's happening - there is less money in people's pockets,

there is less confidence in the economy,

they're not going out to spend money and it's coming up to Christmas.

People aren't spending. The money's not going back into the economy.

Thank you. Ceredig Davies.

The question was - is the Government's policy a success?

It depends on how you measure it. As Dewi just said,

the financial markets see that Britain has the correct policy

because this country can borrow money cheaper than other countries.

I think the question should be -

was the policy for the last 20 years across the whole of Europe

the correct policy? It's now clear that policy was wrong

That's why we're in this situation.

So you blame the previous Labour government?

I would blame the governments over the last two generations.

-Right.

-The money is transferred to the Assembly. I'm a proud Welshman.

But having an assembly, we are getting less in rural areas.

They don't want to know about anything north of Carmarthen.

And as far as jobs, jobs are being created in Cardiff.

We are losing out in rural areas, we can't keep our young people.

They all want to go to Cardiff. I don't blame them.

But that's what's happening.

The Assembly is spending on the M4 corridor yet again.

Right, that is a message I often hear. Up to the back row again.

I'm worried about young people's wages.

I have children who cannot get jobs in this area.

I think the best jobs available at the moment is heads of unions.

-They get a very high wage. They're the best jobs.

-Briefly.

I'd say there is another way the Government could have dealt

with the debt and that would have meant going after

the £120 billion in tax that is avoided and not paid every year.

We could have established a Robin Hood tax to get the bankers

to pay for the mess they created.

What about the point that your government borrowed and spent

so much and that has led to this mess?

What has happened is the Tory Party agreed with us up until 2008.

And what we have done since then is we have seen

that people are suffering, people were unemployed and so on.

We have created jobs, we have used the money to help the economy.

That is what has happened.

The Government has failed with the economy, there is no growth

and the economy has slowed, even before the euro crisis.

And that is the feeling from many in the audience, Paul Davies.

The previous Labour Government has a huge responsibility.

It's been 18 months. Isn't it time you stopped blaming them?

During that time, what we saw...

But we agreed on the spending up until 2008.

While the economy was doing well, what did the Labour Government do?

-They borrowed more.

-But you agreed with us up until 2008.

You were also asking for more.

Countries such as Australia, they paid off their national debt.

That is it on that subject. Thank you and thank you to the audience.

A good start to the series. But it's time now for a break.

Join us in a couple of minutes.

Welcome back.

We're in Pontrhydfendigaid for a new series of Pawb a'i Farn.

Let's move on to our third question, which comes from Meima Morse.

There is a strong feeling that the Hywel Dda Health Board

is not being fair with this area.

The future of Bronglais Hospital appears uncertain

and nearly half the beds at Tregaron have been closed

without any discussions taking place with the local community.

What is the response of the panel members to this?

You clearly feel very strongly. You can see it in your eyes.

I feel that local hospitals such as Tregaron give different support

to the people living in the community.

Some from Hywel Teifi asked my mother in Swansea,

"Are you looking forward to going home?"

"Yes, I'm looking forward to returning to Tregaron."

-That says it all.

-So Tregaron and Bronglais are a concern?

-Of course.

-But especially Tregaron.

-I'll get the opinions of the audience later.

May I begin with someone who has used these facilities?

-Ifan, what do you think? Is Meima right?

-Yes, she is.

As far as Tregaron is concerned,

there were around 29 beds until very recently.

I have the experience of my own parents, my late parents.

That's where my father died.

He spent the last six months of his life there.

My mother was there for months. It was nice...

You have to carry on with life. You have to carry on working.

It is so local.

I could go in even in the afternoons,

I could go in at lunchtime and help with feeding.

-I could also go there every night.

-But are those days over?

-No.

All these politicians want us to do is not travel,

not to use our cars, they want us to stop using so much petrol

and diesel and then they move everything further away.

And as far as Aberystwyth is concerned, I didn't realise

until I read Patrick O'Brien in the Cambrian News.

He has been writing about this. It made me wake up about Bronglais.

Give us a quick picture of the situation.

Well, regarding the colon and stomach surgery at Aberystwyth.

Those kind of treatments. I had two operations there in the '80s.

It was good that I good be treated there, fantastic treatment,

within 20 miles of my home.

It was so much easier for my parents, as they were elderly.

Bronglais goes right across from Meirionnydd to Pembrokeshire.

It serves a population of 400,000.

I'm not happy with the actions of Hywel Dda at the moment.

These people, sorry... Rochdale...

They have already warned.

This bloke, the chief executive at Aberystwyth, he was at Rochdale.

And you're talking about wages. This bloke earns more than David Cameron.

-Remember that.

-Right, let's go to the audience and hear from you all.

We've heard from Meima and Ifan. Who else has an opinion on this subject?

We had an open committee at Tregaron a week tonight.

Around 180 people were present.

And there was no-one there from Hywel Dda to speak to us,

to explain why have they have closed beds at Tregaron.

They didn't even attend the meeting.

Well, we did invite Hywel Dda to send a representative

and they sent us a statement.

There is no representative here, but we did get a statement.

This is what they say. "As a result of staff shortages,

"the health board has had to rely more and more on agency staff

"to ensure there are sufficient numbers of staff at Tregaron.

"This is unacceptable in ensuring the best service.

"This is an operational matter

"and is not the subject of public consultation."

They say it is an administrative,

operational matter that they did not need to discuss with you.

Well, I am quoting to you.

The jobs were not there for people to apply for at Tregaron.

The suggestion here is that there is not enough local staff available.

-That is wrong.

-During four years, there were no jobs.

-None.

Right, Ceredig. You know about these things.

Health has been devolved to the assembly

and it was expected that the assembly would look after

the people of Wales and people right across Wales.

But what we are being offered is hospitals across the north,

along the A55 and then across south Wales, the M4 and so on.

But in mid Wales, we will lose these services.

We've already lost them over the past three or four years.

It's an awful night out there tonight.

I'd ask the panellists, especially the two from the south,

as you return home tonight, think about it,

that's the journey we must take in order to receive these services.

You're referring specifically to Bronglais. I have another sentence.

"We have consistently said that the future of Bronglais

"as a general hospital is safe." Isn't that enough? Isn't that right?

That's what they are saying. That is it in black and white.

Yes, in the back. I understand you're a GP.

Yes, and I had links with Aber, which is trying to save Bronglais.

I agree with what has been said so far,

especially regarding the question.

The fact is that what the health board is doing to Bronglais

at the moment is going to leave Bronglais at 9-5, five days a week.

There won't be any emergency services at Bronglais

during the night or at weekends.

You're not just talking about colorectal surgery.

You're talking about taking all the surgery out of that hospital.

A hospital cannot live as a complete unit without regular surgery.

-And I could go on and list all kinds of things that have gone.

-Thank you.

You also must remember who is behind the changes being offered.

Simon Thomas asked a question at the assembly to Carwyn Jones -

how were they going to provide clinical expertise

at general hospitals in the Hywel Dda health board area.

Carwyn Jones' answer was that they were in talks, discussing how

to provide clinical expertise in the Hywel Dda health board area.

-That says it all to me.

-So you would assume Carmarthen?

-Yes.

-Or even further afield.

-Right.

-Let's come over here.

-It's nice to see Dewi in person, first of all.

Thank you.

In my experience, 18 months ago I was diagnosed with bladder

and prostrate cancer.

It was John Edwards. It is a six hour operation in Aberystwyth.

He had to phone Morriston to tell them about the situation,

that I needed emergency surgery.

Three-four months! And John said, "Dai won't see three weeks!"

Carry on with the job. And that is a very common story.

And I look at Aberystwyth and consider the staff they have.

That is important.

They're going to spend £50 million on a new hospital in Cardigan

and you have Haverfordwest and Glangwili.

I can tell you, Hywel Dda say, "At the moment,

"the hospital receives a capital investment of 38 million,

"the largest in the Hywel Dda region."

38 million, sounds like a large sum to me.

They say they are spending that on Bronglais.

"And whatever changes to take place,

"there will be public consultation and until that has been completed,

"no decisions will be made regarding the future of services at Bronglais."

Is that any comfort?

-No? Yes, at the back.

-It's no comfort at all.

I'm a funeral director and since January, the post mortems that were

being carried out in Aberystwyth are now carried out in Shrewsbury.

It doesn't make any sense.

Someone dies suddenly in Cardigan and they travel 450 miles

for a post mortem, rather than travelling 40 miles to Carmarthen.

What are Hywel Dda trying to do? They have to pay for that.

Thank you. A word from the younger generation.

-Let's get the microphone over.

-It's right, what's being said.

When you go to Bronglais, you are always sent somewhere else.

I was sent to Haverfordwest for knee surgery

because they didn't have enough staff to do it in Aberystwyth.

I have to go down there every six weeks just for a check up.

I travel for about two hours and then wait five minutes.

Right, I must go to the panel.

Nia Griffith, there is a Labour Government at the assembly

financing the health boards.

What is happening here is what we hate, of course, in Llanelli

and in this area, the fact that Hywel Dda health board

is acting without telling anyone what they're doing.

We're discovering things through the backdoor. I don't like that.

What's important now is that

when they consult that it is a full consultation with us,

as adults, and that we can talk about what is going on

because what is happening, of course, is they come out

with a plan and then they ask us to accept it,

rather than asking us at the start what we would like to see because

there is tension between the fact that they want to centralise things

and the fact that we, as local people, want our services close by.

-The money is not there.

-There should be an open dialogue.

The first thing they do wrong is they don't talk to people,

they don't tell anyone what's going on, they don't consult.

If cutting beds at Tregaron down to 12 is something administrative,

it doesn't matter. The impact is like a real policy

and they have to be more accountable for the changes they make.

We know what happens at Bronglais. The services are being run down.

There are no new jobs coming in to replace the people

who have retired at various Bronglais departments.

At the end of the day,

we'll have mid Wales with no general hospital and the north corridor

with a general hospital and the south corridor.

We, in rural areas, will have to live in a situation where

we will have to travel at least two hours door to door for surgery

and that is a disgrace.

Paul, a final word on this. Money is short. Reform is needed.

I full agree with the audience.

There are the same problems in Pembrokeshire.

-Expertise round the corner, those days have gone.

-We've lost services.

What is important is that the local health board

consults with local people because we have the same problem.

When we have public meetings in Pembrokeshire,

there are no representatives from the local health board present.

It is important they consult and tell us what they're going to do.

And the government also has a responsibility.

The Health Minister could tell the local health boards

they must consult with the public.

That is certainly the message from Pontrhydfendigaid, more consultation.

We have a couple more subjects to discuss.

Join us again in a couple of minutes.

Welcome back.

I hope you're enjoying the first programme of the new series.

Let's move on to our next question. This one comes from Selwyn Jones.

The last two National Eisteddfods have made a financial loss.

How long can the current costly situation continue

with the Eisteddfod moving from site to site?

Thank you. The last two National Eisteddfods have made a loss.

How long can the current situation continue with the festival

moving from site to site? You can answer your own question, Selwyn.

I love seeing the Eisteddfod moving locations because I've seen

a number of areas I have not seen before, but we need to make savings.

I was thinking, seeing as there is a recession,

and we don't want to lose the National Eisteddfod,

why don't we have it at one location for the next three years,

to see if the situation improves?

-The same place for three years.

-The same place for three years.

-And I want to throw it out there, an invitation.

-I can see what's coming.

Hang on now. What about the Welsh National Pavilion?

We are here tonight in Pontrhydfendigaid.

Everyone is welcome, from the Archdruid to the man on the street.

They're all listening. That was quite a speech. Elin, briefly?

I think one of the special things about the National Eisteddfod

is that it travels around and I have enjoyed visiting different

parts of Wales, as a result.

I think one of the problems we have with the National Eisteddfod

is that there is no corresponding event in England or the UK.

So we don't know exactly what should be done.

We don't know how much public money should be invested.

-We know how much an opera costs.

-The Government should give more?

Well, with the tough economic situation, VAT is increasing,

it's time for us to ensure that our government in Wales

provides money for important cultural things.

Paul, important things, a contribution from Cardiff Bay?

If I may answer the question, personally,

I'd like to see the Eisteddfod being held in different locations.

I think it's important to our culture and heritage.

Even during these tough times?

It's important that the Eisteddfod visits English speaking areas

to attract non-Welsh speakers. They have done that successfully.

-Despite the losses?

-I'm not one of the organisers.

I understand they are making a loss and maybe

they will have to look at different ways of holding the Eisteddfod.

-It's important it travels around Wales.

-Briefly, Nia?

It's important we keep it and that it can move,

but we need to consider things such as stadiums.

This place, this pavilion, it's wonderful. Universities.

We must think of locations that are suitable where we can do it,

instead of paying money to move the tent.

-The money can be spent on other things.

-You have 20 seconds, Ifan.

I thought I had a good idea, but Selwyn got there before me.

It's a good thing that it changes location.

The Eisteddfod is more than just a pavilion.

It takes Welsh culture to places

that would not otherwise experience it.

-But it comes down to money.

-Thank you for your contributions.

Believe it or not, it's the end of the programme. The time has flown.

It's been wonderful here in Pontrhydfendigaid.

Next week, we'll be in Rhyl. I hope you can join us.

But for now, goodbye.