24/03/2012 Plaid Cymru Conference

Good afternoon. Welcome to Ffos Las Racecourse where over the next two

hours we will be digesting the result, not of the horse race but

the race that has decided the next leader of Plaid Cymru. Leanne Wood

took her place in the saddle just over a week ago and has already

embarked on a mission to secure independence. We will hear her

conference speech and talk to her live during the programme. We will

be dipping in and out of the main proceedings in the hall as well.

The delegate have just been hailing their council hero, something to do

with council elections being in six weeks' time, no doubt. We are about

to hear a succession of questions and answers to the party's leaders

and we will be dipping into the session later. Thank you, Vaughan.

Enticing the party faithful out into the sunshine this afternoon is

James Williams. Thank you, Aled. Plaid Cymru leaders -- members

decided put their money on Leanne Wood. We will hear how she

negotiated the first fence and hear about the imminent local elections.

Trying to outdo the Horseracing puns is Bethan powers. They say a

week is a long time in politics, how can we gauge the impact which

Leanne Wood has made during her first week in charge. There is

excitement. With change comes excitement. I suppose the first

thing that was clear from the decisive victory was that the party

was ready for change. Nobody called Leanne Wood a safe pair of hands.

That is what won heard the victory. There were one or two or more who

came here wanting to settle their nerves as to how safe a pair of

hands she will be. I think her speech was OK. There were others

who came full of excitement and are looking forward to the next six

weeks and beyond. More than anything, I think it was about the

celebration and settling of nerves. Thank you, we will talk later in

the programme. Leanne Wood is currently on the stage in the main

hall. She is with the leader of the party in Westminster and the

European Parliament. At the moment, Helen Mary Jones,

the Party Chairman, has asked all three of the parliamentary leaders,

the European parliamentary leader, Westminster party leader and Leanne

Wood to talk about their priorities within their respective chambers.

We have got to have priorities. We cannot take up every issue. I would

like to put on record my congratulations for the work on

this legislation. I know from the feedback I have had from women's

organisations and the trade unions involved in the criminal justice

system that they are very pleased with the work Plaid Cymru has done

on this so that is all good. I would say priorities, there are

short-term priorities and longer- term priorities. The short-term

priorities are the local election campaign and I am hoping all of you

will go here from -- goes from here today and roll up your sleeves and

do all of the work that needs to be done over the next six weeks. We

need more members as well, more members than we have already got.

Over the longer term, my priority is the economy. We have got to come

up with an economic plan to turn round the downward spiral and

economy that we have here. And also, our communities. I think we need a

big push on building communities again from the bottom and the time

is really good for this sort of message. The economic crisis has

brought a lot of fear to people and we have to offer hope. I was saying

this yesterday. I think by bringing together local coalitions, working

on projects to build the community are in practical and in a real

sense is a way that we can potentially offer hope to people.

The other thing we have to do is build up an economic case for

independence and build up the party machine as well. Going back to the

short-term priorities, the local election campaign is a really good

place to start to build up that network in all of our communities

in Wales and I would like to see by the time the next local elections

come round, wherever you live in Wales, you will be able to vote for

a Plaid Cymru councillor and if we can achieve that then we will have

made a really good start. APPLAUSE First of all, to pick up

on the points, I think we have tremendous resources in the party

that we do not make the best use of and I hope we will get a much more

effective and a stronger leadership team because we do work at

different levels and we do need to make sure that we are supporting

each other in all of the work that we do.

Europe is in financial crisis, of course. There is an economic crisis

and an environmental crisis and within our political group in the

European Parliament, I will be working on that, working on keeping

penny that we deserve because of the poverty levels that we actually

get that money and I will be continuing to work on climate

change issues. What is most exciting for me at the moment in

the work that we did is what is happening in countries across

Europe, which is a mirror image of almost what is happening in Wales

as well, albeit at different paces. Scotland, of course, we know what

is happening in Scotland but in Flanders now, our sister party in

Flanders actually was the biggest party in Belgium at the last

elections and they are fighting for independence for Flanders. There

are big changes in the Basque country, in Catalonia. We are

working with all these people and I think it is important that we see

all of the developments happening in Wales and our progress towards

independence against the backdrop of the European politics, because

we are not on our own. We are one of the parties, one of the nation's

working towards independence and we must strengthen the links with our

sister parties in those countries as well.

Thank you, Gill. Questions from the floor. Have we got a microphone?

TRANSLATION: Millions of people are currently unemployed across Europe

and the youngest people are demoralised when they look at their

future prospects. Can I ask the parliament what are their opinions

of that? Start with you, Leanne? would agree with your analysis. I

have recently been going around a number of schools in my area,

speaking to groups of young people about politics and tried to get

them interested in the political system and the thing that is coming

across their is that young people are very unsure about their future.

They are uncertain about whether they will be able to get a job,

whether they can afford to leave their parents' homes and I think

there is a general feeling that they have been told they should

work hard in school and if they work hard in school they will be

rewarded. But now there is a sense that that is not necessarily the

case. That is why I come back to this point for the need for Plaid

Cymru to prioritise the economy. We have to offer hope to the young

people but there is a future for them. I would give a plug to a

document that some of you may be familiar with. It is called a green

print for the Ballets. In there are a number of ideas for young people

to come together to set up their needs doing in our communities. If

we can encourage young people to give them the sense that they can

do this for themselves, on a very micro level, if we can achieve that

in our communities, Wales as a community of communities, could be

that successful nation that we all want. It is all about starting from

the very bottom, at the very community level and trying to

encourage people to do things for ourselves. Gone are the days when

the big multinationals are going to come and bring factories to Wales

to create employment for people. I think those days are over now. We

should try to get inward investment, obviously, but the solutions to our

problems now are going to come from our own resources in our own

communities. Thank you. TRANSLATION: Unemployment among

young people is increasing and in some countries such as Greece it is

a disaster. The one solution that we have on a European level, is the

same solution, we need to create a Green economy. What we see now are

governments that are cutting back on public expenditure and what is

happening is that the situation deteriorates. What we need to

create work are such schemes on community levels but ones that are

funded as well. We should be read directing Our Financial lead to

create jobs, not just for cutbacks or to provide assistance for banks,

we should be providing assistance for people and that is one thing I

have strongly debated and we need to ensure that Europe does take a

new direction as well. Elwyn? Two points. I will say something

which will be unpopular, not for the first time. I think it is

completely unfair and not just for young people, to persuade them to

go to university. If you do not go to university to pursue a career,

don't go just in order to spend �40,000 and have that as a debt.

For years now, I have been going around schools and sixth-form

colleges and sent fine, if you want an academic career, fine if you

want to access a profession but please, look at how well the the

local plumber, the local builder, the local electrician are doing.

They have got a good living and they can live in their own

communities. It is unfair to tell young people, go to university and

come back with a piece of paper and then you will earn far more money

in a shining job. I'm sorry, those jobs are not there and that is the

first point. And secondly, I am aware that if we

took the S N each sector seriously in Wales, if we made it possible

for those businesses and enterprises to take one worker each

on, unemployment would be practically wiped Out. That is how

important it is and that is why I am concerned. After we lost the old

rural Welsh Development Board that could focus aid for those small and

Ms -- medium-sized enterprises, when that was lost, there was

nothing for that sector and that has faced more deterioration and it

is difficult. We are still here, in Wales, very reliant on that sector.

I know you're going to say, where is the money going to come from? I

would rather give money to a business to employed a young boy or

girl to learn to work properly than to pay them to sit on the dull. In

the long run, it is investment for the government because that young

person will pay tax at some point. We have to focus all our resources

and energy on that sector in Wales. It is true in the cities, it is

true in rural areas, it is something we have lost sight of for

many a year and it is time that we focus on that in my opinion.

STUDIO: There we will leave the session.

Thank you, the views of the current leaders in various legislators. We

can talk to a past leader who did have aspirations to become the

current leader, Lord Alice Thomas. As someone who has been in the heat

and heart of the battle, how has Plaid Cymru come through this

process of deciding to elect a new leader -- Lord Elis-Thomas.

decide how to interrelate and engage with the public, in this

case, the membership and that did have an effect on the wider public.

I must say that I thought the very successful campaign fought by

Leanne, especially using social media, did mean that there was a

swing during the course of the election process itself, which made

it more exciting. When the referendum back in the 1970s was

lost and when Plaid Cymru had its postmortem, it decided to take up

the centre ground of politics. It is now obviously on a course to go

to the left, in terms of trying to take Labour's ground, why was that

decision made? That is not my recollection of the 80s. After the

1979 referendum, there was an emphasis on stating a nationalist

position. There was also a reference for the first time in the

constitutional party to a socialist position. In a sense, I see what is

happening now, not dissimilar to what happened in the 1980s. Where,

of course, we are faced yet again with a government of the centre-

right in the UK, as we were in the Thatcher period, it seems that

Plaid Cymru supporters want to respond by stating clearly that

Plaid Cymru is a party of the left, but that does not prevent it

picking up votes left to the centre ground. The centre ground in Wales

is to the left of the centre ground in the United Kingdom and that is

an important point. You will know the voters better than anyone, what

do the landowners make of Leanne Of course, there is concern about

people, from people in business, who have a different take on the

relationship between class politics, and the economy. There is concern

about the rhetoric. But, I think this is a matter of proving what,

for example, will come out of the economic Commission which she has

established. And I think this will be a very positive way of operating.

I have always taken the view that it is important for asked to use

people in the party but also upside, who are experts in their field. I

have certainly benefited from that in both portfolios I have so far

had in this Assembly. In that session, words it to the effect,

the days of large multinational companies coming to Wales are over.

That hardly gives out a message Wales is open for business at a

time when she is stating economy is the priority. That is not the case,

certainly in the sector where I am still involved, as chair of the

Environment and sustainability Committee. We are talking to very

large companies, power companies. These involve Hydro and wind power.

We will be announcing soon be preferred reactor bidder for a

possible development in Anglesey. These are issues which will have to

be debated in the wider public in Wales. Somebody who has a quarter

of century expense in politics, you know it can be a cruel game. How

will we be able to decide whether Leanne Wood has been a success or a

failure? Success is decided by any one thing. Whether you manage to

make change. Change can be made in a number of different ways. Looking

back, as you invite me to do, at the development of the National

Assembly, the argument for an Assembly, clearly we have been

successful. It isn't Plaid Cymru, but a project for Wales as a whole,

which shows its success. increasing representation within

the Assembly, changing the way the campaign in elections. How will be

let us know whether this has been a success for Leanne Wood? If for

example, I measure my success over the next four years, whether the

percentage of electricity generated from new sources from -- in Wales,

there is no other way of judging. Politics is only a means of

delivering. Let us not judge politicians on politics but whether

they have delivered. The bank you very much indeed.

We can see whether the party faithful believe Leanne Wood will

be delivering over the course of her reign.

I am joined by Ian Johnson, a candidate in the Vale of Glamorgan.

The local elections are imminent, a first test for Leanne? We are going

in with a positive message. One of hope, and Wales can become a better

place. That is what we will be telling people on the doorsteps.

You had a very good result in 2008. Can you better that? For that is

not what this is about. But putting down a marker for the future for

Plaid Cymru and showing a message to people, one of hope and to make

Wales a better place. If you go backwards, that's not a good marker

to put down. We are fighting a strong campaigns across Wales in

Quinn earth, Ceredigion, Carmarthen, all the way across the country. We

are looking good, I think. Should this be seen as a referendum on

Leanne's leadership? She has come in with a strong mandate from the

membership. It will take time to bed in. The ant macro has got

momentum. We are looking good because Leanne is here.

Plaid Cymru councillors are said to go the extra mile, do you? It I am

not a cuts left yet. We do, yes. We saw Fiona Cross, selected as

commuter champion for the whole of the UK. That is the sort of level

people expect, our counsellors do go the extra mile. Plaid Cymru

councillors do the work, that is why people vote for them.

You are a supporter of the campaign by Leanne, and you're happy she won.

I am thrilled she won. At the end of the day, we have to have a party

leader who speaks to everyone in Wales and Leanne was in the best

position to do that. She speaks out to regeneration, a new generation

of people, especially younger people like myself. And she speaks

to people across Wiles who may never have thought of voting for

Plaid Cymru before. She is making inroads. Leanne Wood said, before

this conference, she wanted to use her first speech as an opportunity

to show us her leadership, to make a mark. At the end of the day, she

hasn't been here for very long. She was only elected a few weeks ago.

It is very early to be suggesting these election results would be

some sort of referendum on her leadership. At the end of the day,

you have to accept these elections will take place in a UK context as

well. So, if not these elections, when do you want to see some

results? When will it be further -- fair to judge her leadership?

the end of the day, she is already making clear that the party is

moving in a new direction, reaching out to new people. We have a strong

and positive message. We can judge her on that already. By Adam Price

told us all reddish -- he believes she can be leader for 10 years.

not? She is only 40 years old, she is very strong, her message

resonates with many people. People are wanting to really attack the

Labour Party in the valleys. She is a valleys Gulf. -- girl. Can she

take control? I think she can. She speaks to people. She speaks to

people like myself, my grandparents, who have always voted Labour but

don't particularly want to, they feel obligated to. They don't feel

in real reason, they have just done it. Why are they going to turn to

Plaid Cymru now? She is a leader that can speak to them in a

different way from others. This is a clean break. She can in the way

others have not been able to in the past. Thank you very much.

We can rejoin the main hall. A question is being asked from the

back of the hall. TRANSLATION: That could be far

reaching in solving our housing problem and employment issues. It

was truly an inspiring speech. Would you be happy to invite him to

our next conference for us all to share the experience of listening

to his address and learn from him, how we can move forward from

Yes, let us invite him to our next annual conference, and possibly to

our summer school. Where we all get together and start thinking about

building up the case for independence. Cop it is have a huge

part to play in that. Why don't we consider taking a study trip to the

Basque country. Let us organise that trip. I thought that might go

down well. Our new leader knows how to make us of popular! A question

We possibly have time for two more questions.

With regard to the economy, we have spoken about SMEs employing one

person, what about the creation of more, and the opportunities that

enable budding entrepreneurs to create a company? I know, and have

an investment in a big industrial park, but throughout the country

there are several industrial units, in my ward in particular, which is

badly in need of refurbishment. Couldn't we offer those units at

low cost four rapier of time? -- for a period.

That could maybe be looked at, with new European money? This shows how

many ideas we have in the party. It is not just questions, people have

all of this skill and knowledge that we need to put together, to

put into our proper plan, the economic plan, that we need it so

badly. It is really encouraging. We can use all of the expertise, all

of the scale we have been the party to turn things around.

TRANSLATION: I feel universities have an important role in this

respect. If you look at the success Ireland have had, of late, working

closely with smaller companies, mentoring them for a peer of 18

months. I would like to see more co-ordination with universities in

Wales, we have excellent universities. It is important we

approach them, as parliamentary members, that we say, what are you

doing to promote the E community? They have done it for years in

Ireland, it is high time we now try to persuade our universities to do

a bit more. That would be a very positive step forward. Again, I

come back, it was a terrible loss, when we lost the Rural Wales

Development Board. But that helped to establish and expand them. So

possibly, in the economic plan, we should be looking at that sector,

universities, agencies, how we can develop them. I agree very much

with that. The economic renewal plan that was led by Ieuan Wyn

Jones when he was minister for economic development, is now making

available a series of loans for start-up companies. We also need

the support, the mentoring, encouragement for people to

actually set them up. We shouldn't have any empty factories, should

we? Councils should be letting them out for free, but something is not

connecting. It isn't happening. I know where I left -- live, there

are lots of empty factories. We need to think more about this. I

hope the economic Commission that was announced last week, headed by

Adam Price, will get to grips with some of these issues. Why have we

got such a low rate of start-up companies in Wales? How can we

change that situation? We do need a new businesses to form, they are

We could probably carry on this session all afternoon but I will

take one more question. Just a quick one just before we

finish. I wonder if Leanne Wood like to say more about priorities

for the assembly group for the coming term? Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs,

the economy, that will be everything we will do now. Given

that that was so short, we can take one more question.

I spent 35 years in the mining industry and I was head hunted by

the Prince's Youth Business Trust. I spent three years based in

Aberdare and in that three years I helped over 300 young people

between the ages of 18 and 25 to set their own businesses up. The

average cost of setting those businesses up was �4,000. The big

bonus to it was we allocated a mentor to every one of those young

people and there was a 75 % success rate but it was still trading after

three years. It was cheap, good, it addresses what Elwyn was saying.

Those were not going on academically, it is the lifeline

for them. It is a cheap way of doing it, it is an easy way of

doing it but they need support from people with experience so they have

a mental to take them through. You can create thousands and thousands

of small businesses. I think the panel did not want to

add anything to that. And so that session draws to a

close. We will be returning to the hall later in the programme but now

it is back to our lead. Thank you, Vaughan. It is a highly

contentious issue. Rhodri Glyn Thomas is here. We are sat in

caraway and that is part of Carmarthen East. You are the

spokesperson for local government and the local elections are upon us,

Plaid Cymru only have a 6th of the council seats at the moment, how

would you improve that tally? of all, we have to put more

candidates through. We are going to reach a figure which is probably

going to be as good as we have ever had, if not better. I think the

calibre of the candidates we are putting up, the calibre has reached

a high quality now. I was discussing this with the leader of

Carmarthenshire County Council, the 60 candidates will have standing

this time and we have managed to attract people who have background

and experience which will make them excellent candidates. Helen Mary

Jones said holding your ground will be your aim, it hardly shows

aspiration, does it? It does in Carmarthenshire. If we were going

to be in the position of increasing our numbers by three or four, we

would be in a position to lead the council. There are opportunities.

Obviously, in certain areas it will be difficult. They are going to cut

the constituencies where we will be going head-to-head with Labour in

some traditional Labour areas which we won at the last election, and we

will have to make sure we have done the work to make us competitive.

She said, in a time where we have a Conservative Lib Dem coalition at

Westminster, if there is often a backlash against that, Labour get

the votes here in Wales and it is hard to break through that. Now

with Leanne Wood, you on Labour's territory, you cannot be putting at

fault as an excuse, can you? No, I think the fact that Leanne has been

elected as a leader shows that Plaid Cymru will move to be far

more campaigning party and that will attract support from people

who feel they are disenfranchised, that they are losing local services,

that they will have councillors in Plaid Cymru who are fighting for

the services. I think we have something to offer this election.

Maybe it is a different message from the past and I hope it does

attract support. Adam Price said Leanne Wood's focus should be on

meeting the people of Wales and not on the work that she does in the

assembly as an assembly member, do you want to see a vocal Leanne Wood

presence in the chamber? Obviously, as the leader of the group, there

has to be a vocal role for her but also, will believe that Leanne's

strength is going out and meeting the people and building the party

up. As a group we will be supportive of that. We will make

sure she has time to go out there. The more people who meet Lehane,

the more Group C meet her, the more groups will be attracted to Plaid

Cymru. You resigned to being in opposition, any talk of a rainbow

coalition is out the window at least, she said she is taking the

fight to Labour, there does not seem to be much love between

herself and Labour at the moment, are you resigned to a period where

#ColourGreen Will be in opposition as a third party? -- Plaid Cymru.

We have to ensure that we carry out that will probably. What happens in

politics will happen. You cannot plan for the future. Nobody would

have foreseen a One Wales Government in 2007 but it happened

and these things happen. We will have to adjust according to what

happens in the political context. At the moment, we are an opposition

party. We want to scrutinise and campaign and offer the people of

Wales hope at this time and we will fight to ensure they have services

and job opportunities so they do not suffer too much as a result of

the cuts which are being introduced by the Westminster coalition.

is taking the fight to Labour strategy mean in progress? In her

first question time she discussed a matter which Carwyn Jones had

raised. Is that the tone you want to hear from Leanne Wood a green

with Labour would you want to hear have fighting Labour? I am sure she

will be fighting Labour. We have done this before. We are on

traditional Labour territory here. We won the Assembly seat in 1999,

the Westminster seat in 2001, we have the party -- largest party now

on Carmarthenshire County Council. We have beaten them here and we can

beat them in other parts of Wales. The if the local elections are not

a referendum on Leanne Wood's period in office, when will we have

the first referendum on her successes and failures? I think it

is unfair to have a referendum when she has only been in post for about

five weeks. But I'm sure the fact that she is the leader, it is a

different kind of leadership, it is a different vision, it is making

the party a different party. hear a lot about the supposed to

bounce which the party has had, the new members which are joining, the

party membership which is increasing by 25 %, you are more

than willing to put that positive story out but you will not take any

of the negativity if the council elections do not go well? Well, we

do not know how the council elections will go. I think the fact

that Leanne has been elected leader will have a positive effect. If

there is a confidence here, people are feeling very encouraged to go

out there and campaign and take the message out. I think we will have a

bounce. Whether that then results in more seats, whether it means we

win council, we will have to wait and see. 200 seats at a 1,200, what

would be a positive light for Plaid Cymru? Anything above that 200

would be very good news. I'm confident that we can do that. But

obviously we are in the hands of the electorate. Nobody can force

the election results. We have to go out there and we give people our

message and we hope people will respond to it and we will do that

again. Thank you. We can have more now From James

Williams who is outside the main hall. Thank you. I'm joined by two

Wrexham councillors. Mark Jones, what do you make of Plaid Cymru's

chances for the upcoming local elections? Speaking for ourselves

Col week stood a number of candidates last year and we are

looking to double that. We cannot be too complacent. We have been

working hard for the past four years and we will see how it goes.

Why do think people will vote Plaid Cymru? Because of the work we have

put in. At the grassroots we have been seen as the people who have

spoken up for communities. We have held many referendums where we have

gauged public opinions on controversial issues and I think

people respect us and we listen to them. I'm shocked many people say

they do hard work at local level for their representatives, what

specifically have you been doing that will translate into votes -- I

am sure many people say they do hard work. Speaking personally, we

have set up 54 allotments in my ward, we have reopened a pub in the

town as a Welsh centre, a co- operative. Without public funding,

we have done that ourselves. That is not rhetoric, it is doing things

in the community. How important you think Leanne Wood's leadership, it

is only early days of course, do you think it will have effect on

the election results? I think so. Lehane is well known in places like

Wrexham. She has campaigned with us for a number of years. I think what

goes around comes around. She has been a campaign and friend of

grassroots community action and I think that is why she won. It has

been heartening to see how many new people, how many young people have

come to the conference here and generally, the enthusiasm has been

fantastic. It boys you up going into the council elections. How do

you think that Leanne Wood, she said the economy has to be the main

focus for Plaid Cymru now looking ahead, do you agree with that? Do

you think that that message and the particular messages that she is

putting forward will translate? Absolutely. Jobs are Keay. We have

lost a lot of jobs in Wrexham. We need to create jobs and we are very

enthused by the work that the council in Caerphilly has done in

terms of creating apprenticeships. We want to do that if we get back

into power. I think it is important that we have clear, sensible,

coherent ideas to create jobs in Wrexham and beyond. Thank you.

Turning to you now, in 2008, Plaid Cymru did very well, the best

record, do you think you can build on that this time? I think we can.

We have continued the work since 2008. We have been very consistent.

We have been doing things on the ground, practical things helping

communities. I think that work will pay off at the elections in May. We

have a host of candidates who are enthused and motivated and they are

ready to go out and deliver the message. Why do you think Plaid

Cymru were very successful in 2008 but then had disappointing

elections in 2010 and 2011? Why were you not using the same

tactics? I think we were but for some reason we were not getting our

message across. That is something which Lehane has acknowledged. It

is something which has become clear from this conference that we have

to go out there and deliver that message. We have to rebuild

communities from the grassroots up. It is something we are doing on the

ground in Wrexham and I think that consistency will come through this

time. Talking about the messages, part of the message is independence.

With so few people not supporting independence in Wales, that will

not go down well, will it? somebody like me, that does not

faze me at all. It is amazing that a small part of the population

support independence. We have not had that debate. We have had a lot

of negative propaganda that we cannot stand on our own two feet.

8% of people, even with a decade's worth of propaganda like that,

still want independence, the time has come for that scrutiny to be on

debate in Wales and for us for the first time to have a debate about

what independence means and we have to put that case forward. Carrie

harper, Mark James, thank you both Thank you, we can talk more with

the political editor Betsan Powys. Time is something which is rarely

offered to the party leader. For Leanne Wood, the main goal is

independence but a recent poll says only 7% of the Welsh people were in

favour, we know Plaid Cymru has a lot of ground to regain in Leanne

Wood's backyard, if you like, does this have to be a long-term gain

for Leanne Wood and her leadership? It cannot solely be a long-term

game. Along the way you have to show that you are causing things to

change, that things are improving, that you're getting somewhere. The

trick for Leanne Wood, and you saw it in her speech yesterday, this

idea of there being a journey now. At the moment, we know where we are

headed, towards independence, it cannot be a slogan which means

different things to different people, we will decide as a party

exactly what that means, but along the way there, some of you will

come part of the way but you will drop off, you do not want to go any

further along the constitutional route. Others we might persuade to

stay on longer but the decision will be in your hands so you can

show along the way you are gaining ground. She set out the ground as

being of the economy. Her first act was to sort out this commission

which will sort out the economy, come up with a strategy that goes

beyond jobs, jobs, jobs and the economy which sounds a bit like me

to be a slogan which cannot afford to have. She has to build with that

and hope that people stay with Plaid Cymru and that enough people

one-day will not want to stand by the flagpole but want to see an

independent Wales. She cannot simply look to there, that is far

She is a politician who is very left leaning. She is focusing on

the economy. We have a debate on the public versus private sector.

She will have to show in her public policies that she is on the side of

private business as well as public sector. How difficult would it be

for her? That is going to be one of the difficult juggling acts she has

got. She is very aware of that. Clearly, people are excited at the

thought she could gain Plaid Cymru some gain in some parts of Wales,

they feel it is possibly. Conversely -- conversely, they are

perfectly aware she could alienate some people. People say she does

have this special ability as a leader to communicate with people

in Caernarfon and Caerphilly. They are saying she has to go to talk to

people, her big victories went just be in the Senedd. Across the

political spectrum, she would have to keep others on board. That is a

trick. The party machine is talking about increased membership. Is that

superficial? When it be right to measure her success in terms of how

many councillors Plaid returned in May? Is it too early to form an

opinion? It is, after a few weeks. On the other hand, Plaid are saying

areas and excitement, new members are joining. They are drawing

activists who had been quite three years, they're coming back into the

fold. In six weeks, if you lose ground, that doesn't work as a

story. If you have momentum, they certainly need a decent set of

results in six weeks. For Leanne Wood has not been a venerated by

the Welsh public. She has won an internal contest. The Welsh public

haven't really had the chance before, to form an opinion on

Leanne Wood herself. No, Plaid are conscious. This it doesn't matter

that she does not hold a constituency. Labour,

understandably, given that Leanne Wood has said she is going to take

on the valleys, if they are saying, give it a go. They know she will

have a fight on her hands. Which is why plied his saying she must go

out to the people so they can make up their own minds. We have talked

about her, high time we hear from her, eight days after taking over

the leadership of Plaid Cymru. Her first conference address yesterday.

Today it is a day of firsts. The first speech. But the first woman

to lead the first and still the And, after last weekend, we are

getting used to the idea that Wales, first isn't just a dream. It can be

our reality. No guts, no glory, whether you are a Welsh team or a

Welsh party. When I say aye want us to win, I don't just mean an extra

seat, I mean really winning. I did think of making my first act as

leader to inform the entire Plaid Cymru group that we would be

spending spring recess in Warren Gatland's Polish ice present! --

prison! With or without liquid nitrogen! It is going to be a hard

slog. This much I know. I can't get us to where we want to go, without

TRANSLATION: When I was travelling around the country, campaigning, I

saw people building the local economy, by starting co-ops.

Community centres. People, like Chris Thomas, Mark Jones, Wallace

George, Steve Garrett. People like them are an inspiration to me. And

I hope and inspiration to you. Because everyone, we have to, as

members of Plaid Cymru, we have to go out, just like Chris, Mark, and

bring people in from the community, together, to build projects,

projects that will create jobs. We have to promote the economy and

boost it, from the bottom, up. We have to create jobs. We have to

work, to keep the money in communities by supporting small

businesses and social initiatives. Too much money is leaving our local

economy. It is leaving Wales. We have to develop a plan to stop this.

We have to develop a plan that will defend our communities. We have to

introduce measures to safeguard and protect communities. Where people

speak Welsh in their daily lives. The people of Plaid Cymru across

the country are working in our communities, and they are doing

things for themselves, and for the local economy, and a helping people

who are unemployed, giving a future to young people, and helping them

to state in the communities. I'd come from a very close community,

as you know. I come from the Rhondda Valley. I live in the

street where I grew up, just down the road from mum and dad. And I am

a mother. My little girl is seven years old. And she is very proud of

her mother. She saw my name in the newspaper. And now she believes she

is famous! It is fantastic for her to see her mum, not just in the

Senedd, that is big enough. But now, as the leader of Plaid Cymru. She,

my parents, people in my street, are so proud with what has happened,

and are so pleased, I am so pleased and proud as well. So thank you,

all you, who have supported me in this election. I would also like to

say thank you to Elin Jones and Dafyd Elis-Thomas, for making his

campaign so interesting, so much They both conducted such good

campaigns and both are in credit to this party. Between us, we have

increased the party's membership substantially, and sparked a lot of

new interest in Plaid Cymru. It wouldn't be right for me to let my

first speech as -- without pain gibbet to my predecessor, a leader

who will go down in history as the first ever Plaid Cymru minister,

and the leader who delivered. He said we would have a referendum,

and didn't we have a referendum? After all the tributes, I have a

feeling he knows how grateful Plaid Cymru is to him. In reality, not

many people can lay claim to such a significant contribution, not only

to the development of the party, but more importantly, to the

development of their nation. It is great to be here in Carmarthenshire,

home of many of his party's Great's. The two DJs, DJ Davies, minor,

boxer, sailor, scholar, entrepreneur, who wrote Plaid

Cymru's first economic strategy in his spare time. The other DJ, who

inherited a House and gave every penny to the party, even though he

himself wasn't wealthy. For him, this was a country he loved. What

better platform could any leader of this party had hoped for, than to

be here, on the 100th anniversary of his birth. And this year marks

the 30 years since the untimely death of the woman who sowed the

seeds of the later victory in the first of those, then by-elections.

It is great to be here at Ffos Las Racecourse. I am not a betting

person. But, I am thinking of putting a bit of money down on our

team here in Carmarthen, led by Peter Hughes Griffiths, to make

advances in the local elections, in six weeks. It is not because I am

feeling lucky. It is because I know that people really want a better

future. Here in Trimsaran, and right across Wales. Plaid Cymru

must become the party of hope. In our day-to-day practical work, we

will fight to protect jobs. We will defend those things that are

important to people. We will fight to protect pay, and we will protect

our local public services. We are the party which has respect, and

which shows common decency towards pensioners, young people, people

without work. We respect those who care about the environment, and we

are grateful to the people who work to bring our troops home. We can

see through the moral bankruptcy that is the root cause of the

economic crisis. A crisis of ethics which has shattered people's faith

in politics, and democracy. And we will now work hard to provide the

answers we need to reverse the spiralling decline and social

devastation. Basing our future on depriving the many to feed the

greed of the few, means building our House on sand. Any government

that cuts the tax rate for the top 1% of earners, in the same budget

as it cuts pay rates for public sector workers in the poorest

places, and hits pensioners hard in the pockets, has lost all sense of

I would say, it has lost its right to govern. Welsh workers in the

DVLA, education, councils, government, should not be treated

as second-class citizens in their own land. Under my leadership, we

will support them. People being paid less because they

are poorer, is a poll tax on poverty, and it is not something

that this party will accept. We will fight for jobs, we will fight

against privatisation. And we will be more interested in our own

people than in our own power. When I was growing up, I was told there

was only one choice. You had to vote Labour to get the Tories out.

There was no other option. Well, I have never liked being told what to

do! I decided to do my own thing. I wanted my own choice, and wanted

something better. And I can see a generation of young people in Wales

today who want to do their own thing. They don't want to be told

They want to make their own decisions about the future of their

own country. And many of the young people who have recently joined

this party are already thinking independently. They have joined an

independent party that is for Wales and from Wales. They understand

that the only way that we will fix our economy and our society is if

we decide to do it for ourselves. They, we believe we can do it.

Anger may well be the antidote to complacency but it is never the

real catalyst to progress. For real progress, we need to learn to hope,

to dream big dreams. Let us decide today, from now on, to do our

politics differently. Let us decide to do our politics positively.

Let's talk about ideas, not personalities. Let's talk about our

vision of what Wales can be, instead of running the others down.

Let's push hope, not fear. Optimism, not despair. If we can do that, not

only will we see a better politics, but we will also see a better Wales.

I want us to win by presenting the larger, bolder vision of the Wales

that can be. An economy that is sustainable and green, which also

means more productive and more efficient. One that invests in the

future, that generates more wealth, while creating more quality. I am

proud to stand in a radical Welsh tradition that extends back to the

early pioneers, RJ Deverell and Robert Owen and the three great

Williamss of Plaid Cymru. It is that tradition that gives us our

values and our vision, that everything, politics, our economy,

institutions, our laws, are to be judged on how well they serve the

needs and the aspirations of people. Not just the people at the top and

not just the people that we know. Not just the people that are in the

right party or who vote the right way, but all the people because in

a democracy it is the people, all the people and nothing but the

people that we serve. We want to build an economy that is built on

equity, on fairness, on balance between the needs of the present

and future generations and on the twin spirits of creativity and

generosity. So, what is our most urgent priority? Over the last 20

years, we have seen the gap in wealth grow wider and wider. On

current trends, within a generation, Wales will no longer belong to the

club of high-earning countries. But predictions only come true if we

accept their inevitability. If we shift course then our future

changes with us. What is this path to a better future? I think that

there are three giant gulls that we need to set ourselves in the coming

decade. We must build the Green economy, we must invest in our

knowledge base and we must create the infrastructure for success in

the 21st century. We need a green print, not just for the valleys but

for the whole of Wales, retry fitting every home and every

building until every last one is fit for the future, starting with

those that need the health -- the help the most, the homes of those

on low incomes. Through this one programme we can create thousands

of jobs, hundreds of apprenticeships and save millions

in energy use which could be continued to fund the project. We

should have done this nearly 20 years ago. But this time, we have a

parliament with a power to do it. Let's build up our renewable

industry. As a nation we have been given a truly amazing legacy. Our

country is infused with energy. First it was Cole and now it is

wind and waves. But let us not repeat the mistakes of our history.

Let us make sure that people here reaped the benefit from the second

industrial revolution. The German renewable sector employs 40,000

people in wind energy alone. If turbines are to be built, then let

them be built by Welsh hands and minds with Welsh steel. Knowledge

will be the economic frontier of the future, yet we invest far too

little in research and development, so let's create incentives for

innovation. Let's get the tax powers so we can power our economy,

so we can reward those Welsh companies that invest in the

sectors of the future. Look how well the Scottish government is

doing, pushing the argument for taxation. There is no reason why

Wales should be any different. Let's create a virtual enterprise

zone for technology start-ups that use the new .com but Wales domain

name. Wales should not be the country of minimum wage but a land

of maximum potential. Let's aim to follow the success of Quebec's

training levy and create a 1% minimum investment in training

across all companies for all workers for all our futures. And

let's have a Welsh Research Council so Welsh universities no longer

lose out to the Oxbridge college cartel.

Just imagine what an extra �30 million would do to our cash-

starved university sector? Building up our economy also means building

up our infrastructure, the National arteries that connect people, goods

and ideas. We presented our bold proposals for a bid for Wales

funding initiative over a year ago. Yet the minority government in the

Bay have sat on that hands, having refused to back the right to borrow

while they were in power in Westminster. They needed to be a

partnership built between local government that can borrow and a

Welsh government to invest in badly needed infrastructure. Local

government is well within its borrowing limits and with a 30 year

repayment period, �150 million of Welsh government expenditure

annually could underwrite �3 billion of investment, enough at

the very least to begin to reverse our economic decline. If this is to

work, then councils of all political complexions will have to

do their part for the good of Wales. We must also seek to rebuild Welsh

agriculture. Our food producers have seen a half a billion pound

loss in output since Labour came to power. We will work with the

industry to increase local food production, to ensure food security

and also to secure the future of the Welsh family farm and their

wider communities. We are a party of nation builders. A party for the

whole of Wales. We are eager to roll up our sleeves and we will

work with those who share our vision and our determination to get

the job done. No, that doesn't always mean sitting around the

Cabinet table. That is not the only way that co-operation works. But it

does mean putting our principles into action. Local council should

become the powerhouses, fuelling our communities, helping people to

rebuild their community institutions as well as to work to

provide jobs and secure their local welfare services. Friends, the new

Wales will not be built in the pages of your book. It will be

built from the ground up, piece by piece, ward by Ward, person to

person, in small acts multiplied by millions through all the

conversations that we have over the next few weeks, months and years.

Together, we can build the new Wales, case by case, project by

project, the length and breadth of Wales. So, together with the Plaid

Cymru leaders of the filly and Gwyneth, Alan Pritchett and Dafydd

Edwards and with other group leaders, we in Plaid Cymru stand

ready to do our part and work with others to find neutral ways forward

for Wales. And remember this, the more Plaid Cymru leaders we have

after May, the more of our vision we can begin to deliver. We will

build Wales from the bottom up, starting with our communities. The

nails will be the policies that we will hammer home together. You must

be the carpenters. I will be the wood.

That to me is what real independence represents. Not some

distant date on which we will all gather and salute a flag, it begins

here and now. It begins when we say no, we will not accept that our

poverty is inevitable. We will not accept what our opposition says,

that this nation cannot be successful. We will believe in the

ability of our business is to thrive and in our families to

prosper. We are finished with putting up with things as they are

because that is how it has always been. We are done with simply

surviving and with just muddling through. We want our people to soar

and under my leadership, Plaid Cymru will work to make that happen.

But we have to recognise that because we have been disappointed

time and time again, our capacity to criticise is sometimes more

developed than our ability to imagine. So, the first step is to

hope. Hope is the belief in the plausibility of the possible. A

refusal to accept the necessity of now. The leadership campaign filled

me with that hope because I saw it in the faces of young people. These

are the real leaders that will drive the Trans formation of our

country. To echo the words of Baron de R T E Roy, another Wales has not

only possible, she is on her way. If we listen, we can even hear her

breathe. Friends, it is time for us together to move our nation forward,

in the confidence that befits the pride and the ambition of our

STUDIO: That was a Leanne Wood's conference speech from yesterday.

Listening and Noddy was the party's secretary Helen Mary Jones and can

I ask you -- listening and nodding. Can I ask you, did you back the

winner? I think we all backed the winner. I am very pleased that

Leanne had such a resounding victory that gives her the mandate

to carry on with the good work. I have to say that I was very pleased

with that speech. It was a confident speech. It was also

upbeat. Every single problem she looked at, she hinted towards the

answer, instead of just piling up the problems, saying we can do

better. We have the confidence of the nation. I think it was quite

inspiring. The Plaid Cymru members who vote for you might be different

to the ones who might have voted for Helen Mary Jones, they might be

more conservative perhaps, whereas in Helen Mary Jones's territory,

they might be further to the left, how difficult a task will it be for

Leanne Wood to balance between the members of Plaid Cymru who are

possibly poles apart? First of all, I don't know whether there are any

Conservative people in Blaenau Ffestiniog. I understand your point.

The people who vote for Plaid Cymru vote because they want to do the

best for the country. They do not say that because Leanne is

perceived to be further to the left than a person like me, then

suddenly they cannot support her. That I think will not happen. I

also challenge you by saying this, what is right and left any more

anyway, given that we have two parties in London who are identical.

What Leanne will be doing is she will sketch out why Plaid Cymru is

different, why the people of Wales can trust us and why we will trust

them and that sort of bond will be built upon. I do not really worry

about left and right tax any more and I am certain the electorate do

The amount of support Leanne got from Plaid across Wales I think

that really strong base, she has a really strong mandate, to take that

truly positive message in her speech about to the people of Wales

and build that conversation. In her speech, she said, you have

to vote Labour, to get the Tories out. Her point is that is not the

case, you can vote Plaid Cymru. If you're talking about Westminster

politics, the tendency is to vote Labour. Are we going to see a shift

in emphasis similar to the one which the SNP consciously made,

which is to put less resources into Westminster elections? To a certain

degree we have been doing that, the future lies in Cardiff, not

Westminster. That is already happening. But I think the whole

idea of voting Labour to keep the Tories out, is a bit of a joke in

the valleys, but unfortunately people still believe. People like

Peter Hain, with this silly statement during Assembly elections

as if it had any bearing on what is going on. We are tired of these

silly slogans, we want to talk of the way forward. That slogan wasn't

resonating with voters back in 1999. The constituency for Leanne Wood,

Plaid Cymru colt 13,500 votes. This time around, the share of the vote

was 29.5%, we had haemorrhaged 7,500 votes. What has happened? To

lose so many? He in 2011, it in my former constituency, the Labour

message, you have to vote Labour to keep the Tories out, that did

resonate. They were building on the idea of a coalition. It has nothing

to do with Plaid Cymru? The Labour- Tory dynamic has an effect. Look at

what the coalition is doing to people's benefits, people are right

to be frightened. What Leanne was getting at, we have to get past

that, to build people's conference -- confidence. We have been part of

this union for centuries and yet we are still one of the poorest. We

have to be positive and say, we are not going to build into that

narrative of fear. Under the new leadership, we have a strong

message, it is our job to give people hope. We didn't do that

successfully in the 2011 election. I want to add, Leanne's job is not

to say, why you should not vote for the Tories and Labour, but why you

should vote for Plaid. She sketched out the future and vision that she

has. That is one thing lacking in the National Assembly for Wales,

any kind of vision. Once people see she has a genuine vision, an

exciting vision for Wales, they will see why Plaid is different and

why they should vote for Plaid Cymru. You are on a journey to sell

independence to people. Adam Price has already tried to sell this

residue to the people of Wales. He said there would have been 2.2%

growth in the Welsh economy had Wells -- Wales become independent

at the time of the fall of the Berlin Wall. We have to make the

case. The evidence is there. This is why Leanne has established an

Economic Commission to develop an economic plan for Wales. And taking

a key role in that work to get that message out. People would find it

incredible we would be 39% richer as people if we had become

independent at the fall of the Berlin Wall, bearing in mind the

economic crisis we have had. He has been lauding Ireland and the

economy has gone further... If you look at those examples, Norway,

Luxembourg. There have been big economies which have done very

badly, and small economies. If the evidence is there. We need to get

those messages out. One other thing Leanne has been talking about is

building an economy which is both prospers and responsible. We have

to think about what it means to be prosperous, the kind of community

we live in, quality of life. Of course we need more money. If we

are going to build a fair society, invest in Social Services, housing,

health. It is also about what kind of prosperity, that is a strong

message. It's not just about the money in your pocket, but how you

feel about yourself and your community. Do you feel safe on your

streets? Do you feel part of something? That is the kind of

confidence we need to build. We have just adopted the moving Ford

report. My job as a chair is to go through the boring but important

organisational changes. This is a new start for the party with a new

leader. And taking a hard look at ourselves and see what we did wrong,

and in the past. Adam Price says he can see Leanne Wood being the

leader for the next 10 years. As a party, do you have to afford her

that breathing space, to create a future? A I do not think that is

quite what he said. The point it is, for the next 10 months, she is Our

Leader. She is assembling around her a very good team of expiates

people from all levels of representation. She is the person

who can draw out the best in all of us. She will, undoubtedly, grow in

that particular job. It is not going to take her that long to get

corrupter speed. I have known her 20 years. She will do very well.

She will always have her hat on what she is doing. I think, a good

leader is someone who will sometimes take risks. She is

certainly not somebody who will say what people want to hear. She won't

be afraid to stand up for Wales. If that ruffles some figures, I am all

for that. That is why we are at a horse racing venue. Thank you very

much indeed. The future direction of any party does depend on the

future of the party, and Plaid Cymru has a new chair of -- and

this was her conference address -- his conference address.

Our focus is on independence. Some say that in the past we have been

scared of the so-called independence word. That may be the

case but we can be confident at this point in time, it certainly is

not. For us, it isn't about getting independence just because we want

something to campaign on. It is about working together, to show the

people of Wales that an independent Wales will be better country, a

more prosperous and more successful country. That is what my

organisation believes and envisages, and I determined while I am in

charge of Plaid Cymru youth, will play our part in a journey towards

freedom. Everyone in this room, indeed in this party, has their own

hopes and aspirations for a better Wales. Each of us interprets this

so-called better Wales to flee. What brings us together in a common

cause is our shared profound love of the land we call home. Some may

say that my generation of nationalists have had it easy,

goodness knows, I barely remember a Wales without devolution. To some,

that is a witness. But we consider it a strip. Let us be honest, it is

my generation that will deliver an independent Wales, we're the ones

that will be going out to work, raising our children in that Wales.

So we have a duty to be organised and effective. Frankly, we have to

pull our socks up. The TRANSLATION: While I am

responsible for Plaid Cymru youth, I will be working with Leanne to

ensure the young Plaid Cymru grows into being an important movement

within the party so we make great strides towards independence in

Wales, in the same way as Alex Salmond and his party have done in

the north. What value will be spent in those

next year's showing the people of Wales how much better an

independent country can be. There is no point doing that unless we

can get the young people onside. Now, that Wales will not be

prospers or thriving unless the young people believe in it today.

In February, it was estimated 130,000 young people in Wales were

without work. You make your decision in terms of who is

responsible, but I blame David Cameron and his government in

Westminster, and this lazy Labour government in Cardiff Bay. Last

November, he promised that the Labour Party in Wales would help

young people into work. How much progress have we seen? Virtually

nothing. You compare that with Scotland, where Angela Constance

was appointed as Minister in December. Labour standing in

Wales's corner? I do not think so. We must, in Plaid Cymru, campaign

on this. With enough work, we together can show the young people

of Wales that Plaid Cymru is the only party in the country that

replaces them first. When I was preparing for this

speech, but of us have not to put too much emphasis on Scotland. Let

me never less. Northwards again. In two years, the people of Scotland

will be asked whether they won their country to become an

independent sovereign state. At the moment, it looks as if the signs

are right for that referendum to be successful. Even if it isn't, the

political landscape and constitutional make-up of the

United Kingdom is undoubtedly changing. Even now, with more than

two years to go, what happens to the UK after 2014 is one of the

hottest topics of the moment. When it comes to Wales asking its

citizens whether they want to be independent, be it in five years, a

decade or more, my members will be part of that debate. With time, as

Plaid Cymru used develops, I hope more and more young people and

students joined us, and I hope when that debate comes, they will be

firmly in our corner, calling and fighting for an independent

sovereign Wales. But the way things are going, not just here but across

Europe, we are in grave danger of turning a whole generation of young

people into regeneration of people who do not care. Some call it the

lost generation, and they are right. Those of us in Plaid Cymru and

throughout politics, have to take extreme care we do not

disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people. We have to get

them involved, show them we care. Show them we hear in Plaid Cymru

are standing up for them, as we always have done, that we are their

natural political home. The new chair of Plaid Cymru youth,

addressing delegates yesterday. We can go back to the main hall now.

Another panel discussion is taking place. This time, on the green

economy. It has three of the party's environmental experts on

the panel. From Friends of the Earth. Among others.

Particularly the nuclear power programme. This government has

dithered fears in tried to produce alternatives to fossil fuel energy

generation. Actually, at some point Barbara, we are going to sit -- hit

a serious crisis. The degree of change we are prepared to

contemplate, it is of nowhere near adequate to meet the sort of carbon

reduction targets we are expected to look for. And were referred to

in the international climate change panel and in the report. The second

is in regard to Wales. Isn't it shameful the Welsh Government

hasn't done more, that point has been made. The Welsh Government has

very few powers in that area. With regard to Marini generation, the

scale of the project is vastly over the 50 megawatt limit which is the

capability of the current Welsh Government powers. We also know the

Labour government in Wales has had very limited ambition in increasing

those powers and has said, if you double it, that would be all right.

If we are looking at the sort of renewable energy generation

possible in Wales, we are talking about many hundreds of megawatts

for single stations. You only have to look at one offshore wind farm

in North Wales which is near the 500 megawatts, to realise the scale

of the task that faces us in terms of exploiting our own natural

resources. Wales does not have the power to do that, and all of the

benefits of exploiting those natural resources goes to other

countries. If you look at one particular installation being built,

a tiny amount of the contract value is going into Wales. It is owned by

three companies, a German electricity company, it is owned by

the company getting 1.2 billion euros worth of work by producing

the turbines, and the third partner owning this wind farm, is the

Munich utility company. A public sector body in Germany investing in

Wales on the basis it wants to be as green as possible, cannot

capture enough energy streams in Germany. Making money out of our

natural resources. Clearly a I'm glad we have not developed the

natural resources of Wales because of their had been developed they

would not have been developed for the Bennett fit of ours, they would

have been developed for the benefit of shareholders outside Wales. The

reality is, if you look at the situation in Wales, the one major

area that a future independent Welsh government could look to

would be the natural resources of Wales, and in order to do that, it

would have to be in a position to tax those resources, it would have

to be in a position to own those resources. Do you want to stop me

there? I will, there was a lot of stimulating stuff there, can I

invite somebody from the audience to make a point. I have seen the

massive subsidies that these German and Danish companies have had from

the public purse and also the cause of the skyrocketing of our utility

bills. Our pensioners are freezing to line the pockets of these

corporations in these areas. Also, as a small nation, can we really

afford to ignore our massive coal reserves? Scotland has the good

sense not to ignore their fossil fuel reserves and I would like to

see some kind of arrangement in the future where any wealth that we get

from Cole stays with the people and not frittered away from the

corporation's. I would like to see that Welsh -- wealth put into green

projects as some kind of transitional arrangement. Thank you.

30 % of energy that we use in Wales has produced by coal still.

TRANSLATION: First of all, we have to realise that climate change is a

crisis which has to be tackled right now and reduce our dependency

on fossil fuels. Of course, we can continue to mind all the coal in

Wales but by the time we have burnt it all there will be very little of

the planet left to live in so we cannot rely on those fossil fuels.

We have to move away from dependence on oil and other fossil

fuels. And look for other fuel options which are sustainable. So,

I would disagree with you there, to tell the truth. There is obviously

a vast subsidy for the fossil fuel industry, far more than for the

renewable energy, wind energy and others. It is actually 20 cent but

is by Cole. What I would say to regard -- with regard of that, we

have to recognise that the increase in fuel bills is not as a result of

these subsidies. There is a lot of information that it is because of

green energy that the fuel bills are going up. You only have to fill

up your car at the petrol station to know that it is the increased

cost of fossil fuels which is causing the rise in hour bills,

where Britain's coal or gas because we do not have a situation at the

moment where we can benefit from cheap shale gas coming in from the

United States because of the very problematic environmental issues

created by that source of energy. That is the first point, it is not

fair to say increased fuel bills today are caused by the subsidies

to the green energy industry. The real cost is first of all the fact

that fossil fuel prices, particularly oil have gone up very

substantially. Secondly, the electricity companies, as they

always do, actually have substantial leads and lags between

a time when you get the electricity bill, it is always predicated on

the idea that the cost of oil goes up. When the cost goes down, there

is a considerable lag before you get the benefit in your bill. The

second issue is that the entire fossil-fuel industry is incorrectly

priced. The reason that it is incorrectly priced is because it is

priced on the basis of the marginal cost of extraction. That means it

pays no attention to replacement costs. If you are the end of a

factory and you buy a machine tool and you say to yourself I have to

replace this tool after ten years, you will look at the cost of

operating that bit of equipment by saying, it is this amount that it

cost me every year and in addition, I have to appreciate that piece of

equipment so that I had enough money left in the bank after ten

years to afford another one. What we have not done impressing the use

of our fossil fuels is to say what is the amount of appreciation we

have to factor in, to factoring there is no more down the road,

that we have to have a replacement source of energy. One of those

sources of energy is the green energy. To take your point about

the subsidies, one of the reasons why companies like Siemens are over

here making money out of us, is that our own governments have not

been prepared to put the investment in on day one to provide us with

the expertise in the green energy industry so that we are exporting

that expertise to other companies - - countries, rather than vice versa.

We should be investing in our green energy. If you look at something

like a tidal lagoon which I think is a better way of hard missing --

harnessing of the Marine Energy of the seven history, once you have

financed it and you have paid off that finance, you still have an

electricity producing entity which is good for another 85 years. The

Design Build is about 120 years. For that extra 85 years, you have

energy that is not dependent on oil shipped around the world or Kohl

taken from under the ground, it is on a highly predictable series of

tides which are not going to cost you anything other than the

maintenance cost of what you have already built. That is why we

should be focusing on green energy and focusing on it today.

Firstly on the issue of fossil fuels, I would like to see us move

into renewable energy and let other people develop carbon capture in

terms of whether that keen -- can be developed as a technology. There

we can look at the future of fossil fuels. I would hold back with them

as a bank until we can look at the technology of carbon capture to see

if it can be developed. I remain convinced his see it to work but I

think we have to sit on what we have got until we can use it

without killing the planet. I would like to correct Madoc, actually,

the Welsh government has the powers to develop title test in Swansea

Bay. Wash government could develop it if they want. When we went in to

one Wales, I tried to sneak it in and twice Labour have pulled it out.

They could do it now, they haven't done it, they have fallen behind

the times. We could do it now to make a difference. Sell tidal

how important it is, we can do two things at the same time. Where this

lagoon -- where these lagoons are likely to be built on the north and

south coasts of Wales. These are the areas which are likely to be

affected by global warming sea level rise. Not only are you

producing renewable energy for Wales but you are protecting coast

line from future global warming sea level rises which are inevitably

going to occur. Why the hell we are not doing this in 2012 is quite

beyond me. We will take the questions for merely if we may.

Now we have time to question the new leader of Plaid Cymru, Leanne

Wood. Congratulations on your victory. The new head of the

campaign Commission called you an intelligent risk for the party. De

feel you are a risk, some kind of experiment? I am the new leader of

Plaid Cymru and I have a political programme that I have had a huge

endorsement from, from the membership of Plaid Cymru. Maybe

people will see my politics as a bit risky. I do not think it is

necessarily. I think the economic time we are in necessitates a new

type of politics and I think the radical agenda that I put forward

in the election campaign was clearly attractive to a large

percentage of the membership of Plaid Cymru and certainly from the

conference this weekend, I know that people who were not supportive

of me in the election campaign are rallying around my leadership now.

While we could say maybe there was a risk, maybe there still is a risk,

hopefully it is one that members are comfortable with. If in a

year's time, somebody turned round tea and said, you're out lap, the

policies, the way in which you are selling the message of quite come

Marie -- your outlet, it is very similar to the one that was being

sold in the time of Ieuan Wyn Jones, would you take that as a

complement? Ieuan Wyn Jones has made a fantastic contribution to

Welsh politics. The referendum that we won last year would not have

been possible if he had not taken us into government. And not only

taken us into government but stood firm when they were voices who

wanted us to stop the referendum going ahead. He has to be

remembered as a politician who has made a vast contribution to Welsh

politics. I think the way that the party has been over the last ten

years does need to change now. We need to move out of our comfort

zone, we need to move out of the areas where we have traditionally

had strong support, to new areas like the former industrial areas

and I hope as a new leader we can take the party in a new direction.

Labour have a strategy, they are trying to Welsher five the party.

The labels that are thrown around, left, right, I'm not sure they are

helpful in this context. But they define who you are? Well, Plaid

Cymru is a party that is to the left and Welsh politics is to the

left of UK politics. I want to ensure that we have a Welsh

politics and not define ourselves in British terms. I see myself as

someone who comes from the Welsh radical tradition and yes, that his

Welsh politics but it is more than that. It is not a simple label.

Talking about something that is radical, the Welsh public at the

moment believe that independence is poll were in favour of it. Where is

the economic evidence to suggest that Wales could prosper, where it

to be an independent nation? Well, what I see at the moment is Wales

not prospering under the current set-up. Historically, we have been

tied to an economic system that does not put our interests, the

part of the UK on the periphery, does not put our interests first.

The only way we can assure our interests are put first is if we

control everything from within Wales. You are right, 7% of people

support independence now. I am not surprised at that because the case

has not really been put. I am hoping in time we will see growth

in that. It is interesting that 62 % of people now favour some tax-

raising powers and 72 % of people support an independent health

policy in Wales. But where is the evidence that Wales would prosper?

Adam Price has done some work where he claims the Welsh economy would -

- had -- the Welsh quarry would have grown by 2% after the fall of

the Berlin Wall after -- if Wales was independent? How can you

provide evidence for something that does not exist. He has put a report

together we shows a series of correlations and you can deduce

from that a potential pattern? there are a lot of IFS and buts?

You cannot prove something which you have not done but I firmly

believe that at the moment we are not prospering. If you look at the

figures that were out last week one GDP in the valleys, our economy is

in decline so the system we are in now is not so -- sitting our

interests. We have to think differently now and think about a

different system in the future Can we talk about the decline in

support for Plaid Cymru in the area where you come from. When Geraint

Davies was Assembly Member, he polled 48.7% of the vote. In 2011,

Plaid Cymru achieved 29.5% of the vote, and lost. Somewhere along the

line, 7,500 votes, why has that happened? We have seen a decrease

in turn out over that time as well. You are talking about turnout, that

hasn't affected the Labour vote. You have got a fair point. We need

to go back, to look at what was successful for Plaid Cymru back in

1999. I haven't got a clear idea as to what was different then, to what

it is now. But I think there is a lot of good will for Plaid Cymru.

With respect, you are the new leader, and isn't it your job to be

clear as to what has gone wrong, and to address those issues? We do

need to look at the history of our success and our failures, I think.

And the programme we have got going forward, I am very keen to build

support for Plaid Cymru in those areas where we have and

particularly had strong support in the past. There are some areas

where we have had strong support, and lost that support. Did you over

achieve in 1999? Did you raise the bar to a level which was not

sustainable? We had a new institution in 1999. Everything was

new and different. I want to see us make those gains in those areas

like Islwyn, Llanelli, and it was just two months to try to change

the narrative, time we didn't have. Now, we do have time. We're not in

government in Cardiff Bay. We have to build the party and do that

internal work. Not in any of those seats have you secured one in three

of the votes. Rondo, 29%, a Caerphilly, 29%. There is a lot of

work to be done to actually win those seats, how long will it take?

I am not going to say we are going to make big changes and

achievements overnight. It will take time. We have a party machine

to build up. In some areas of Wales, we have no real activity at all.

Over the longer term, with the next local elections, I want to see that

you can vote for a Plaid Cymru candidate. And at the next Assembly

elections? If we dent Labour's majority in a number of those key

seats we will be going in the right direction. If you will not windows

seats, there is little chance Plaid will form the next Welsh Government.

Which brings on the question, Plaid and coalition. It seems like you

only route back into government? the short term, you might be right.

In the longer term, I would like to see Plaid Cymru become the biggest

party in the Assembly. That is not going to happen in one term.

have said it's not going to happen next time round in four years,

which means it will be in 10 years. That is the time when Elin Jones

wanted to have an -- a referendum on independence. I can't predict

what events will happen in the next four years, or 10 years. So much of

Welsh politics is determined by what happens outside of Wales. The

economic crisis we're in now is driving what public opinion is.

Wales was an independent nation now, we have just had the budget, where

would you have set the level of income tax? That is not a question

I can answer now. We don't have powers over income tax in Wales.

People want to know what independence would look like?

haven't got the answers for those questions yet. This is the work

that Plaid Cymru needs to do. We need to look at all aspects of what

independence means. It is coming across as a vacuous concept when no

one can put facts or figures next to the word, independence. If

someone came up to you today and said, Leanne Wood, this notion of

independence does appeal to me, tell me, how much would I pay in

tax? I couldn't answer those questions. If you look at Scotland

in terms of building a case for independence, it has taken many

years to be able to get to the point where they can answer all of

those questions. Your policy director said yesterday, we can't

expect them to be fully signed-up to be supporters of something they

know very little about. You're not telling them much about

independence. Real independence is about constitutional change, to

sort out the problems we have got, the economy. That will happen

gradually over time, which will only happen when the people of

Wales come with us. We have a big job of work to do in working out

that case and taking people with us along the way. I'm not going to

attend our work has been done, it hasn't yet. We're ready to start

building that case. What people will respond to is an understanding

the current set up is not working for us. So we have to have an

alternative. Alan keen to ensure as many people as possible contribute

-- I am keen. I would say, if people are interested in building

up the Welsh economy and their local economy, they should consider

joining Plaid Cymru. Independence will happen when people come with

us and when we have been able to persuade people of our case.

said the economy, jobs, will be the key motivation. Can I ask you about

something you raised last week, the public purse is the public --

versus the private sector. I spoke to one woman celesta with a private

practice he said she could not compete -- solicitor. I would say

to her, let us not compete for a race to the bottom. We have low

private sector wages in Wales. The way to address that is not to cut

public sector wages. We needed to raise those private sector wages.

That comes back to the witness in the Welsh economy. The GDP in West

Wales is going down. On the private sector, you said during your

question and answer section, enticing multinational companies to

Wales, those days are over. It is hardly selling the message that

Wales is open for business. We have to attract inward investment but I

do not think there is a plethora of multinational companies wanting to

come to Wales. Now, wages are cheaper elsewhere. We need to build

our indigenous businesses, small businesses are key to the future of

the Welsh economy. If every single small business in Wales could take

one person on, an apprentice, a new worker, that would make a huge dent

in our unemployment problem. Finally, Adam Price is willing to

give you 10 years in the job. want it as long as the members of

Plaid Cymru want to keep me here. And for a final time, James.

We have reached the finishing line. Two candidates in the local

election. Are you happy that Leanne Wood is the leader? I am overjoyed.

She is the leader will need now for these elections and all the

elections we will face in the foreseeable future. She has a very

positive message. She is the representative in one of the most

important constituencies. A I think we will do well wherever we stand.

Wherever we put a positive message Ford for Wales. Leanne is an asset

for our campaigns. Rebecca, what is the most important

message Leanne has been saying this weekend. What stood out?

economy has got to be at the forefront of our mind. She is a

conviction politician. She is clear with the message. The members have

spoken, Leanne is our leader and we are happy to support her.

Back to you. The final word of the afternoon to

our political editor. What did you make of what she had to say? Well,

she was pointing out quite if you times she couldn't provide evidence

yet for things which don't exist. The battle for her and Plaid is

they are going to have to start providing evidence that things that

don't exist if they are going to persuade people they are headed in

the right direction. How much and that's what you pay in an

independent Wales? There has to be a strategy towards answering

questions like that, an economic strategy early on to convince

people that Leanne Wood and her party can come up with answers that

one day the Welsh public will buy. It would happen in six weeks. But

pretty soon she will need to come up with answers. For does it also

showed how far behind Scotland we are in that debate about further

powers? Absolutely. Leanne Wood is perfectly right to say that it is

only fairly recently that the SNP has had to, and the people have

asked specific questions about an independent Scotland. There has

been much reference to it this weekend. You can bet there will be

more to come. We have reached the winning post

now, that is our time at an end. I am back at midday tomorrow on BBC