Browse content similar to 20/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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And evening all, whether you are at home or here in the audience waiting | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
to put questions to our panel and I'm always asked this - no, they do | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
not know the questions in advance. Our panel tonight, one of the | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
authors of yesterday's budget, the Liberal Democrat Chief Secretary to | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
the Treasury, Danny Alexander. Labour's shadow Health Secretary, | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
Andy Burnham. A Conservative MP, Dominic Raab who | :00:36. | :00:39. | |
has been making a name for himself on the backbenches and former direct | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
or director of the think-tank, Jill Kirby and a crime writer who has | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
written 28 novels which have sold 12 million copies worldwide, Val | :00:54. | :01:03. | |
McDemid-. And David Burgess Joyce, your | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
question, please. It would appear to us northern folk that the economy is | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
being driven by the south-east. Does the panel have any idea when the | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
rest of us will feel some of that heat? When is it going to reach | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
here? Val McDermid? It is hard to say when it will. We seem to have | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
been saying the same thing for the last 35 years. I can remember | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
working and living in the north-west of England for most of that time. It | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
does seem there is a strong focus on what happens down the south and we | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
end up with what is leftover on the table. Most of us who remember the | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
'80s remember how deeply our traditional sfris cut in the north | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
and doing was done to replace them. -- traditional industries. | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
Yesterday's budget didn't offer anything for those stuck out in the | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
regions. Do you think it is deliberate regret? I don't think it | :01:55. | :01:59. | |
is deliberate. I don't think they. Dominic Raab First of all the | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
recovery is going well. We have record jobsworth. There has been 1. | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
7 million new jobs in the private sector under this Government. Double | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
the record of a decade under Labour and I don't accept that it has been | :02:14. | :02:17. | |
all down in the south or in London. Up here in Warrington, for example, | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
unemployment is down 30% since this Government. There have 2,500 new | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
businesses between 2010 and 2012 but I accept we need it make sure we | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
have a more balanced recovery and stronger economic competitiveness | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
across the whole country. That's what, for example, investigating in | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
shale gas which will hopefully reap dividends across the country and | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
what things like HS2 are supposed to do and even with this week, we have | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
heard with the new updates with the plans that Hitachi have said they're | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
going to base their global rail business in the UK and build another | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
factory in the north. We are getting there, slowly but surely. I accept | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
the premise. In practice we are making gross. Juf said it is varied | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
but 80% of new jobs are created are in London and four out of five are | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
in low-paid sectors. If only 20% of the new jobs are coming to the | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
north, there is a disproportion to that. You cannot say we are all | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
recovering the say. We are not in all this together. The south are | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
getting 08% more jobs than the north. Andy Burnham, answer that. My | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
point back to Dominic would be - recovery going well for who? You | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
look for the for unemployment across the north-west? We then the up this | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
week in the north-west. It is an indictment. Look at the Budget. The | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
Evening Standard last night proclaimed it a Budget for London | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
and announced the investment for the different pet schemes people were | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
raising in London. What was in it for the north or north-west? I | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
didn't hear T you put your finger on it. They talk about private sector | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
jobs. How many are part-time? How many of them are zero hours | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
contracts. I forever have people in my surgery saying - they won't let | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
me work more than 23 hours because they don't want ton pay the extras | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
or we have people on zero hours contracts, so they can't find out | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
what they will earn one week to the next, so they cannot plan for their | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
life, get a loan or a mortgage. That's the reality of the economy. | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
Too much in the north. I have said this, for many years, we flif a | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
London-centric country. We live in. Policies designed for London, not | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
the whole country and this has to change. | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
APPLAUSE Danny Alexander? Well, I think the | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
questionnaire raises one of the most important points for the UK economy, | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
which is how can we make sure that growth is balanced, that the future | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
of our is balanced and benefits everyone across the whole of the UK. | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
Frankly, we had several decades of governments that were obsessed with | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
the City of London, banking system and financial service, spent all | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
their time as Andy and his colleagues did, going on prawn | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
cocktail offensives to charm the bankers and City Whizz Kidz to pay | :05:16. | :05:18. | |
more tax on the basing that would support everything. And the things | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
like manufacturing community, for the whole of the country, | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
particularfully Scotland, and in the north, were neglected. The decline | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
that Labour had. That's wrong. Some of the things we were doing | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
yesterday, to directly answer your question, supporting energy | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
intensive industries, chemical and steel works and the big | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
manufacturing companies through changes on energy policies, | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
supporting manufacturing businesses to invest, in new plant and | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
equipment by doubling capital allowances available to businesses | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
to invest in growing their own business, additional support for | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
apprenticeships, crucially important for growing the skills we need for | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
future economy. There was more money to encourage small and medium-sized | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
businesses to take on apprentices. One of the things I'm proud of. So, | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
when he says the evening Papers in London said it was a budget for | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
London and it is London-centric, say that's what they are, but not what | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
you were? That is what I would say. I said in Scotland it was a budget | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
for Scotland because we are supporting investment in the oil and | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
goes sector which is crucially important to the UK UK economy. Do | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
you agree with him, it is a budget for everybody? I must confess, I | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
thought the budget was OK. It wasn't a criticism. Coalition government, | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
who I think are doing a reasonable job. It was more around pushing | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
people out of London into the provinces with their businesses. I | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
used to work in HR. I still keep an eye on all the jobs now seem to be | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
advertised, even the senior jobs and it is almost like there is a retreat | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
into London. It is a different country from the rest of the UK and | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
this is' quite worrying. -- and that's quite worrying. | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
APPLAUSE The woman at the back in orange. | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
Could I just ask about youth employment? You mentioned | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
apprenticeships but it is still a big concern in the north-west, | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
certainly. I think youth employment is a big concern across the whole | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
country. Youth unemployment is starting to come down but we need to | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
do more to help. One of the things I'm proudest of as a Liberal | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
Democrat in the Coalition Government is the massive expansion in the | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
apprenticeships we have presided over. It is a good way for | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
businesses to take on young people and for young people to gain the | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
skills they need for the future of our economy. That alongside the big | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
cuts to income tax for people on lower incomes, are two of the areas | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
where I think the Liberal Democrats have made the biggest contribution | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
to getting the country back on the right track. I share the concern | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
that too much of the growth and wealth is concentrated in the | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
south-east. We need to look at Government's policies, both this | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Government and its predecessor, one of the most damaging policies as | :08:01. | :08:06. | |
Danny alluded to is carbon tax on industries, industries that were | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
successful. Places like Stoke-on-Trent not far from here and | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
in the north. You cannot expect the whole country to unite around the | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
same jobs that are happening in London. We can't all be dependent on | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
consumer spending and debt-fuel growth. We knead to be making and | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
exporting but that doesn't just happen through special little | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
allowances and a little bit of money here and there. It is fundamentally | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
changed by the kind of energy policies we have. If we are making | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
it impossibleably expensive to manufacturer He this country and all | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
the other energy intensive industries which are clobbered by | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
green taxes which are OK in London at Metropolitan dinner parties but | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
in the country have had a profound effect in the economy. We cannot | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
reinvent those things and bring those jobs back overnight. We will | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
not do it by tinkering with the carbon floor price. We need to do | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
much more. Woman at the back there. Well, I feel this is all started in | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
Liverpool in the '80s and I believe Margaret Thatcher had a big Nelson | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
Mandela this process but Dominic mentioned HS2 bringing income to the | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
North West. It is not stopping anywhere here. It is stopping at | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
mnch Europe and then carrying on. You will get people flying into | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
Manchester Airport, straight out of the north-west. I don't understand | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
how you feel that's going to be bringing much benefit. | :09:31. | :09:38. | |
On that point, the interim report that came in this week on this, said | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
one of the things - two key things - first, we need to get more value for | :09:45. | :09:48. | |
money out of the project. I know there are concerns about that. But, | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
also, we want to bring forward the extension of phase 1 so it | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
incorporates Crewe as a regional hub. You are trie. Can't just be an | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
elevator between north and south. -- you are right. It needs to promote | :10:02. | :10:06. | |
greater connections between people and businesses. | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
We will take a question on this. We will stick with the idea of the | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
north/south but a question from Leanne Round on HS2. Is the high | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
speed rail link worth the money? Is it worth the money and will it | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
achieve what you were saying? What do you think? Are you for it? I am | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
for the principle but we will have to see whether it is worth the | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
money. You know, there can't be a blank cheque as Ed Balls has said. I | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
grew up in this area and know it well. I observe the routes south are | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
full. The West Coast Main Line and M6 are full. We cannot carry on as | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
we are, we will not be able to move. The principle is a good one but the | :10:47. | :10:51. | |
precise plan, I don't think does maximise the benefit for the | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
north-west. I have had to ask some tough questions about HS2. It comes | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
right through my constituency in Leigh T causes maximum disruption in | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
my view but offers very little benefit as the lady at the back was | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
saying. -- it causes. I have called for | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
changes, I have said there needs to be changes to maximise all of the | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
north-west. How do you do that? You are all talking about the north not | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
benefitting. David Higgins said that. You are saying it got behind | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
because of Labour but what you have done, Jill Kirby says is not enough. | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
How is this part of the country going ever to catch up and balance? | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
Is it possible it can balance with the south-east and London, or is it | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
a pipe dream that politicians talk about and never achieve. He has said | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
there need to be changes to improve connectivity. I agree. Coming back | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
to Danny. He said the north went into decline in the Labour years. I | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
fundamentally object to that. I saw Liverpool and Manchester go into | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
massive decline in the 1980s and 1990s. I had to leave Warrington, as | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
a young man, after university to get a job in the south because there was | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
nothing here. Liverpool revived, Manchester revived this. Area | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
revived under our Government. You took away the north-west development | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
agency, which in my view was a disastrous step and has made it | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
harder for this region to go in and win the inward investment we need. | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
Well I'm not here to defend the record of the Tory Government. You | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
said we did nothing. Of the Tory Governments in the 1980s and 1990s. | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
I agree of much of what you intad that. I have to say to have a Labour | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
spokesman coming on and talking about the economy without | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
recognising the mess your party made of the economy, without | :12:38. | :12:46. | |
recognising... APPLAUSE AND BOOS Recognising the way the financial | :12:47. | :12:49. | |
system collapsed because of the lack of regulation under Gordon Brown, | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
the way in which Labour was running a structural deficit before the | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
crisis. I think a simple apology. You can write it down if you don't | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
want to say it. Can I just say, there is nothing | :13:02. | :13:05. | |
more annoying to someone outside the political loop to hearing | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
politicians continually blaming the ones who came before. | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
APPLAUSE Surely there has to be some kind of | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
statute of limitations on a big boy did it and ran away. | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
The one thing Danny won't admit is he inherited a growing economy from | :13:24. | :13:30. | |
us and his Government put it back into recession. Let's take Val's | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
advice and not fight the battles that are over and look ahead to the | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
problems that this part of the world is now facing. There is a hand up | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
there. I don't see who it is attached to. The man there. | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
If you are on about HS2. Why not start it at the north and go down? | :13:47. | :13:55. | |
Are you going to say you are going to do that? One of the things David | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
Higgins was saying in his report this week was we should get the | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
northern section going more quickly. That we should get a new hub in | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
Crewe, to be opening at the same time as the Birmingham link opens, | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
to get economic benefits to this part of the country more quickly. | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
That must be right. The other thing he was saying and Andy is right | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
about this, is that it is important to use HS2. It is not just about | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
connecting Manchester or Birmingham to London. It is actually about | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
getting connections between northern cities quicker, more effective. | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
Speeding up a transport system and infrastructure system in the north. | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
I am a backbencher, I understand the fors and against it, I think we need | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
to make it work. I'm not clear if Labour are sitting on the fence. Are | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
you foreor against this major infrastructure project there to | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
boost the economy as a whole but also particularly the north? Jtsds | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
give me a better plan for the people of Warrington, for the people in | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Liverpool? You haven't done that. He wanted to go - Give me a better | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
plan. That is what David Higgins said. It's not good enough to sit on | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
the fence. The North doesn't end here. I have lived in | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
Northumberland. When you say LS2 is going to the North they say, no it's | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
going to Manchester. They don't think that's the North. All right. | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
There is a whole chunk of the country north of here. Hello, | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
trains! We will move onto another aspect of this Budget. Hang on. | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
Another aspect of this Budget. Remember, you can join in this | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
debate right now, texting or Twitter. | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
this is another aspect of the Budget, before we leave the Budget. | :15:40. | :15:51. | |
Catherine Whitley, please. Is the Chancellor right to trust pensioners | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
not to blow their pension pot, or will they spend it on booze, Bingo | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
and buy-to-let? APPLAUSE | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
Booze, bingo and buy-to-let. Booze and bingo is a sore point with you, | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
Danny Alexander, you said its with a grass grass the way the Tories | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
published it. I thought it was a spoof? The Chancellor right to | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
pensioners not to blow their pension? We can trust pensioners to | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
use their money that they have saved for their whole lives for their own | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
retirement responsibly to make the best choices for themselves. | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
Particularly now, that we've cleared away the bureaucracy of means | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
testing thats with a big part of the pension system until recently. We | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
are moving to a situation from 2016 where we have a single-tier pension. | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
The level of the basic state pension will on its own lift people out of | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
the means testing process. A strong platform for people to save on. | :16:59. | :17:00. | |
There is a basic level of support which means people will not fall | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
back on the state additionally. It's right to say, if you have saved all | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
your life. Put money aside, you should have flexibility to choose | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
how you use to to benefit yourself rather than being constrained to | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
annuity which have been criticised as not offering the best value for | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
me. It's absolutely right to trust the people to make the right | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
decisions for themselves. Do you agree? The temptation will be there | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
for people to spend it on something else. Do you think that matters? | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
Probably not, no. A major change this, isn't it? Before we were told | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
what to do with our pensions we are free to do what we want. People | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
should be trusted with their own money, money they saved. The theory | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
if people know they have more freedom when they get to retirement | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
they are more inclined to feel to save for it. The principle is | :17:54. | :17:56. | |
obviously a good one. I think, we should bear in mind that the reason | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
why annuities are so appalling unremowntive at the moment is | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
because of Government policy and QE saversers have had a desperately | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
hard time this policy is something that will possibly make life a | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
little bit better. It doesn't go very far. All the people... All | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
those pensioners who have already retired, and are stuck with the | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
annuities they have got, will get no comfort for this. So, you know, it's | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
not all Rosie in the pensioners' garden because of this | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
liberalisation. In principle, it is a good move. A good thing. Do you | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
think it's a good thin, sir? I think if a pensioner is lucky enough and | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
intelligent enough to save money for their retirement, they are | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
intelligent enough to spend it. The real question is, will Andy Burnham | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
rebell if he doesn't get his station at Leigh like he said at a public | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
meeting? Sorry? What you do you mean - will he rebell? He said if he | :18:57. | :19:06. | |
didn't get a public station? I'm driving a hard bargain. I want a | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
station. Will you rebell? I will wait to see what the plan is. Did | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
you say you would rebell? We were talking about pensions. You answer | :19:17. | :19:19. | |
him? It's in the the next parliament we don't have a plan yet. Will you | :19:20. | :19:25. | |
rebell? Is answer the question. I said to the Government we need | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
changes. David Higgins said there will be changes to the northern | :19:30. | :19:37. | |
section. Will you rebell, you know you won't get a on... He will not | :19:38. | :19:46. | |
answer. Let's move on. Well tried, sir. Well trierd! Up there. As an | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
addition to the question that the lady asked about the changes in | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
pensions. Yes. Does the panel believe that this could just be a | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
cynical way of the Government raising billions in tax revenue? | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
What do you think? I think this whole conversation about what we | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
will do with our ill-gotten gains or our hard saved money is a diversion. | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
Yesterday's Budget, for me, was a very good Budget. I have a | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
pensioners pot, ISA and premium bonds. It was a Budget for people | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
who have. I don't like paying my taxes any more than anybody else. My | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
tax bill drops into my inbox my heart sinks. I pay the taxes, it's | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
the cost you pay for living in a civilised society. A civilised | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
society is how we take care of people who don't have. | :20:42. | :20:48. | |
APPLAUSE All this conversation about will we | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
spend our pension pots On holidays or pay off our mortgages or be | :20:53. | :20:57. | |
sensible or invest it? It's a diversion from what is ailing this | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
country at the moment, the tight, tight budgets that so many of our | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
people are living on. Not just pensioners, people across the board. | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
Young people who have been betrayed by the promises made to them. Who | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
have gone off to university got degrees, run up huge amount of debts | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
and pushing a trolley up-and-down a train because there aren't graduate | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
jobs for them. That upsets me that I care about. Yesterday's Budget was | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
for the haves, can we think of the people who are not served by the | :21:27. | :21:36. | |
Budget, who are not the haves? APPLAUSE | :21:37. | :21:37. | |
The first and most important thing, if you are the most vulnerable in | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
our society, the unemployed, creating new jobs, 1.7 million jobs | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
in the private-sector is critical. It's for the economically most | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
vulnerable. I would also point out that if you're... The changes we are | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
making, some have been difficult, from my own experience some people | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
are struggling with the cost of the living. The raw fact of the matter | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
is elderly poverty, child poverty, fuel poverty, inequality, believe it | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
or not, under the statistics, the objective statistics is lower now | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
than it was under Labour. I want to pick up on the point about savings. | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
We all talk about Government spending and Government debt, | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
household debt, private debt in this country, is bigger as a proportion | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
of GDP than Government debt. There are measures to encourage saving. | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
From a pensioner bond to scrapping the 1 o 0p rate of saving for low | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
earners. That is incredibly important. Saving is one of the | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
economic virtures in the economy. When you get to the end and worked | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
hard and saved, of course people should be able to have the freedom | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
to spend that money how they want to. The idea that we suddenly jump | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
in and boss them around at that stage and have rigidity and they can | :22:51. | :22:59. | |
only go down the the annuity route is crazy. The man there. I would | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
like to raise the point that the Budget provided nothing for young | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
people at all. The legacy of this Government will be a lost | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
generation. We -- the first thing this Tory-led Government was cut | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
youth and career services. You burnt the bridge for young people getting | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
into employment straightaway with that. I keep on hearing tonight that | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
the economy is in recovery. Can you tell me, why the rise for food banks | :23:26. | :23:27. | |
is just so high? Answer the food banks first before | :23:28. | :23:39. | |
we forget and his point about young people. We are seeing an increase in | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
food banks in a range of developing countries, in Germany, in Canada, in | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
those countries... Always someone else... You are seeing greater use | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
of food banks. Of course, there are people who are having to rely on | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
food banks. That is for a whole range - a whole number of people are | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
relaying on food banks. Because their benefits are delayed or they | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
are out of work. A range of circumstances. We are working so | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
hard to create more jobs in this country. The answer to the point of | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
the young man at the back about young people there, a number of | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
things. Firstly, creating jobs in this country, 1.6 million jobs | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
created since 2010, expansion in apprenticeships there are a bigger | :24:27. | :24:29. | |
range of options for young people to get the skills and employment they | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
need. Taking away national insurance from employers who employ Under-21s | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
to make it more attractive for employers to take on young people to | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
work. Cutting income tax for people who pay tax at the basic rate, | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
lifting the tax threshold to ?10,500. Tax cut to ?800 to 25 | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
million working in this country, it's helping to make work pay | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
better, particularly for people on low paid work. There is a lot in | :24:56. | :24:58. | |
this Budget to answer the question that you raised, sir. There there | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
you are. Andy Burnham what do you say, he has the answers? To listen | :25:06. | :25:08. | |
to the Chancellor yesterday and to Danny now, you would think the | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
biggest problem we have is where we invest our spare cash we have left | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
over, the savings we have got. They didn't... | :25:18. | :25:20. | |
APPLAUSE They didn't mention the cost of | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
living once. The Chancellor didn't mention it. It doesn't appear in the | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
Budget statement. The biggest problem we have, is people keeping | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
their heads above water, isn't it? Making the ends meet and feeding the | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
kids. That is happening now. This Budget was silent on that. Nothing | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
to say to the 900,000 young people who can't find a job. Nothing to say | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
to the proud people reduced to using food banks. That's not true. Mothers | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
coming in with health problems and they're feeding their children. They | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
have not ate for three days. They have nothing to say on these issues. | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
Nothing at all. The thing I want to finish off by saying, this is the | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
week when Oxfam said that five families in this country have have | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
more wealth between them than the bottom 20%. The IFS said today that | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
the people hardest hit by all of their budgets, outside of the top | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
10% are the bottom 10%. That is outrageous. This is what you get. | :26:21. | :26:26. | |
APPLAUSE When you get budgets written by, as | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
Michael Gove said, public schoolboys. Public schoolboys have | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
no idea what life is like for ordinary people in Warrington and | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
elsewhere. APPLAUSE | :26:41. | :26:42. | |
A class matter? When we get on to Eton we know there is nothing of | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
substance coming from the Labour Party. Michael Gove said it! Michael | :26:46. | :26:52. | |
Gove said it. Can I answer the lady's question. I opened a food | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
bank which is a well off village in one of the most affluent parts of | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
the country. Cost of living is affecting everyone across the | :27:01. | :27:06. | |
country. The Trussell Trust is the nation co-ordinator, number one | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
co-ordinator for the food banks, they say the two biggest causes are | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
global food prices and energy prices. There isn't a huge amount we | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
can do about global markets. There something you can do. In this | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
country, about ?400 goes on the average families annual food bill | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
from agriculture subsidies. We want to reform the policy in the EU. On | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
energy, we have to to be energy self sufficient. Andy needs to explain | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
why they closed down seven nuclear powerser stations one of the reasons | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
why we have such energy prices now. There are specific reasons why we | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
have this problem with food banks. Politicians shouldn't get off the | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
hook that easy. What are you going to po it? I want to move on. We have | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
a lot more questions to come. I don't want the moment to pass | :28:00. | :28:02. | |
without drawing your attention, in case you missed it, to Ed Balls new | :28:03. | :28:09. | |
uf missism for death when he was talking about pensions. He said, | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
when retirement comes to an end. Did you hear him say this? I didn't hear | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
it. When retirement comes to an end. That is what happens now. We will | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
break away entirely from this. It may come up in some other form. This | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
is from Susan Wright, please. Are we witnessing the dawn of a new cold | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
war with Russia as a result of imposing sanctions against them? It | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
a new cold war we are facing with Russia? Yes. I think we might go | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
further back than that. I think actually everyone has been rather | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
brought up short by the fact that things that used to happen and used | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
to provoke wars, going back some way now, can happen again, countries can | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
annex another country. Russia can move in on the Crimea there is | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
nothing very much that the US or the EU can do about it. We are left | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
looking rather empty in our rhetoric and Putin is clearly away there is | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
nothing very much we can do to follow-through. Do you say there is | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
nothing we can do? If we have a sanctions war with them it won't do | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
Russia any more harm with them than the rest of us. The Europe is | :29:18. | :29:24. | |
terrifiified because countries are dependant on energy. Cyprus and | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
Greece are dependant on Russian money am. They bought a lot of their | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
debt. We don't have any prospect I think of having any kind of combined | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
EU policy on how to deal with this. I don't think we will be able to do | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
very much about it. I think it's a reflection of a long period of | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
rather empty foreign policy in this country and indeed the Obama | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
approach to foreign polling Sid, which is to talk big, but have very | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
limited ability to do anything about it. We needed to think about these | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
things when we have our defence reviews rather than just assume we | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
don't have kind old fashioned war any more. We have to wonder whether | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
it might be possible for Russia to expand its ambitions further and | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
being complacent in assuming by forbidding someone to come to the G8 | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
that will be enough toll halt Putin's advance. I don't think it | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
is. We need to really reassess what is we have been doing and the | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
signals we have been giving in our foreign policy by threatening to get | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
involved in Syria, but knowing we can't. Backing off. Putin saw that | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
and he drew his own conclusions. No, I think it's potentially very | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
serious, I think it should be a very sharp reminder to the US, to the EU | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
in particular and to Britain that to go grandstanding on a world stage, | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
when you have no ability to follow-through, very limited | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
capacity to do anything about it, is perhaps not wise. Indeed, could be | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
quite destabilising. Thank you. The former Conservative Foreign | :30:51. | :31:02. | |
Secretary said that the EU's reaction was pathetic and feeble. Do | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
you agree with that? Do you think the Government and the EU are doing | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
the right thing? They are very limited options. One of the things, | :31:14. | :31:16. | |
something we should not be doing, is going down a knee-jerk reaction of | :31:17. | :31:20. | |
saying it is the Cold War all over again. I think it is much more | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
complicated. I think the Joe yoe politics are more complicated. I | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
think part is a hangover from the Soviet system where the Russians put | :31:29. | :31:37. | |
their own level of people into all the Soviet republics to run them for | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
mother Russia. Those people got left behind. Those people are now under | :31:43. | :31:47. | |
pressure culturally, where they got left behind. This is them saying to | :31:48. | :31:55. | |
Putin, you are the strongman, do something. I don't think it is a | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
land grab, we have to find a different way of approaching this. I | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
am not a politician. I don't know the answers. It is more than saying, | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
let's do these sanctions. Maybe the way we resolved the Balkans might | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
show us a different way of coming at this, although I'm not sure what it | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
would be? Kosovo? Maybe not that one. | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
Well I do think it is pathetic and feeble and I think if the UK | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
Government don't intervene, it is going to have a destabilising impact | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
in the Balkans. I served 22 years and this is' what I believed. What | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
would you do? I think Val is right. It is more complicated than going | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
back to the gold war. It seems to me Putin is trying to have it both | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
ways. He wants to strut the world stage at the Sochi games, getting | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
the respect, supposedly of the international community for hosting | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
that, and days later, wants to invade the Sovereign territory of a | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
neighbouring country. He can't have it both ways. I think he is trying | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
to call everyone's bluff. He is saying - take May on if you dare. I | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
think, you know, I welcome what Obama has said today. I think the | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
Obama foreign policy is a big improvement, actually on his | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
predecessor and he isp toughening the rhetoric. -- he is. I would say | :33:13. | :33:20. | |
- we had the Sochi Winter Olympics, 2018 we are supposedly all going to | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
the World Cup in Russia. Now, are we comfortable with that idea? Let's do | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
something that the ordinary Russian on the street will understand. I | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
can't see how we should all now just say... You think cancelling the | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
World Cup will make a difference? I'm just saying, on every level we | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
have to send a different message and we have to be prepared to take him | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
on. I would say it is FIFA's decision but they need to revisit | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
that. He can not pretend he is part of the club, strutting the world | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
stage and taking steps like this, that are fundamentally in violation | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
of international law. We are part of NATO. NATO was set up to stop | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
Russian expansionism. I have not heard NATO mentioned by any | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
politicians was wrefr. We want it seem to use economic sanctions. -- | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
bhasever If we -- whatsoever. If we pulled together as NATO and invited | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
Ukraine to join us, Russia would stop. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
Danny Alexander, Just wait a second, you don't have a microphone. | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
I would say this is an incredibly serious situation, because what you | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
are saying s a violation of international law, the sort that we | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
haven't seen for many decades in our hinterland in Europe. One country | :34:35. | :34:40. | |
invading, annexing a piece of territory from another Sovereign | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
state is a serious thing. This isn't some far away country where we can | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
just stand idly by. We have to make sure we speak with one voice in | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
yumplt it is, of course, difficult sometimes because we have 28 | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
different countries to pull together. -- in Europe. But we as | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
Britain as lone do not have the influence by ourselves to thing | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
this, but the European Union is Russia's major trading partner. A | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
major customer for energy industry. I think the sanctions the Americans | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
have put in place, the further saengess is very well. There is a | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
European summit going on at the moment. -- further sanctions. What | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
would you like to see Europe do? At the moment, the reaction from Moscow | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
is to street them as a joke. A cause of irony and sarcasm. | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
Putin's advisor said the only thing that interested him about America is | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
Ginsberg and Jackson Pollock. Well, I don't know about that but what is | :35:38. | :35:43. | |
on the agenda at the European Council tonight and tomorrow is a | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
stiffening of sanctions, more embarrows against people and asset | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
freezes. To take on Jill's point we have to potentially move to | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
targeting the economic area. Russia's economy is heavily | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
dependent on exports and so on. If we move to the next stage when | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
sanctions haven't been effective, we need to move to more targeted and | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
economic trade issues that. Might hurt us but it'll hurt the Russians | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
more, and will send a strong message that what they are doing, violating | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
international law, is not acceptable. Do you think Europe can | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
agree on a common policy? There are 28 different interests. Doesn't it | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
demonstrate the limitations of trying to work with Europe and have | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
a common policy? The opposite. I think you are Europe has a strong | :36:34. | :36:35. | |
common interest in the rule of international law. We cannot say | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
international law stops at the boundaries of the European Union. | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
That would be to go back to a 19th century way of looking at T Does | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
that mean a European Defence Force will move in? ? We have to work hard | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
to get agreement. That's what we are doing today. Seeing strong signals | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
from the Germans, frechl and so on, that we are killing to move to the | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
next stage. -- French. We have agreed at a European level a staged | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
approach, escalating sanctions and we need to make sure we | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
follow-through. Do you see it, as the way the questioner is asking, | :37:06. | :37:12. | |
the dawn of a new Cold War? I agree with Val. I don't think you can | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
express it as is employsically as that. But I think it is one of the | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
biggest challenges for the framework of international law and regulation | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
that we have seen. -- simplistically. We don't know if | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
Putin is doing this domestically. He is weak at home. I agree with | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
Malcolm Rifkind, the I's response has been sof riffic at best and not | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
nearly with enough teeth. I think we should be kicking them out of the G8 | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
and the Council of Europe or suspend them and the sapgss should be | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
tougher with the threat, a week ago of trade sanctions. -- and the | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
sanctions should be tougher. We need to know how to get out of this and | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
not into it. Russia has a point about Ukraine, if you look at | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
Finland and neutrality that should be on the table to assuage the | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
legitimate concerns and you can look at the illegitimate ones. The young | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
lady here is saying the interim government is Ukraine is not the | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
most enlightened. You put it a different way. Not the most | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
enlighten enlightened bunch of leaders. | :38:23. | :38:29. | |
So they have to be pushed to reach compromise and Putin knows there is | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
a price to pay and a clear mix of carrots and sticks for the steps he | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
needs to take next. The woman behind? They are talking about Putin | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
and Russia trespassing into the Ukraine and Crimea but the people of | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
Crimea actually asked for his help. Their leader went to Russia for help | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
and the people of Crimea wanted to go to Russia. The same as the people | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
of the Falklands wanted to stay part of Britain rather than Argentina. | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
Who are we to butt in and tell them how to do things? Rather than token | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
gestures around sporting veents or other international events like that | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
-- events - I find myself agreeing with Danny Alexander, there has to | :39:14. | :39:16. | |
be enforceable, diplomatic economic sanctions. Ironically, Russian's own | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
sanctions, regarding energy, would damage what slr a Frank tile | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
economy. They may end up shooting themselves in the foot. -- would | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
damage what is already a fragile economy. | :39:32. | :39:33. | |
Would you like to pick up that point, about the overwhelming wish | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
of the people of Crimea? You have to be careful to treat in anyway | :39:39. | :39:51. | |
legitimate or serious, to take a referendum that was organised it at | :39:52. | :39:54. | |
the point of a gun in 11 days. Do you dispute what Putin says, 82% | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
voted and 96% voted in favour I think there is no evidence it was a | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
referendum conducted in a free and fair way. Therefore, I don't think | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
you can take that argument seriously, otherwise you would say - | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
any country can run into some other country, organise a trumped-up | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
referendum with a few days' notice and say they are being invited in. | :40:17. | :40:24. | |
But Ukraine don't conduct their own affairs that well. The point about | :40:25. | :40:30. | |
NATO. If Ukraine joined NATO that would be disastrous. Where are the | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
UN? Ban Ki-Moon making a token appearance in Russia, a farce. Why | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
weren't they there three weeks ago when a democratically-elected | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
government in Ukraine were overthrown by a main or the? I will | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
move on. Thank you to the audience for their contributions. I will go | :40:48. | :40:57. | |
on to Naomi Capper. With teachers now working an average | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
of almost 60 hours per week and only one-third of those spent actually | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
teaching children, can the panel understand why many no longer wish | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
to remain in the profession? You are a teacher. Do you want to leave? I, | :41:12. | :41:20. | |
like many teachers, I love my job. I I'm very privileged to do my job. I | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
spend the majority of my time with the children, watching them grow, | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
nurturing them and I see a lot of things that their parents don't see. | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
But Your problem is that of the 60 hours... The 60 hours... That most | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
of the time is not spent teaching. It is form-filling, ticking boxes. | :41:44. | :41:51. | |
Analysing data. Getting ready for it change after change after change. | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
Danny Alexander, is that the position? Well, I think that most | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
teachers are lake you - that I know, they are utterly dedicated | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
professionals, who want to see the children in their classes doing as | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
well as possible and work incredibly thoord do that. I pay credit do you | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
and your colleagues for what you do. - in incredibly hard to do that. | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
There is a problem about too much bureaucracy and rules in the | :42:20. | :42:21. | |
classroom which you have drawn attention to. That's why we are | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
trying to give more fliblingts and freedom to headteachers. -- more | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
flexibility. To make sure the school is organised in the right way. Why | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
we have put more money into schools through the pupil premium. Michael | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
Gove has had four years to get rid of the things that are complained | :42:38. | :42:41. | |
about. Form-filling, the most common reason given for the hours that they | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
work. Michael Gove strikes me as the kind of person who would object to | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
that And there is more to be done. The point I was going to make is we | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
are also trying to make sure that every child leaves school with the | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
best-possible skills and education to get on in life. One assumes that. | :42:57. | :43:04. | |
That's why we are skewing reforces more towards kids from the most | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
disadvantaged backgrounds because over decades we have seen far too | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
many children leaving school. You are not answering the question. I | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
am. I'm talking about how resources going into schools are skewed | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
towards enabling teachers like Naomi to do what they want to do, to | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
devote to the kids... Why are they spending 40 hours form-filling and | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
only 20... I don't know if the survey is accurate? Well, it is a | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
Department of Education survey of primary schools. I maybe wrong. | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
Michael Gove might have actually got the survey wrong. I have not seen | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
the details of the survey. I will not go into the detail. I'm saying | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
we are trying to make sure teachers have more time to spend, | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
particularly with the kids who need the help most. Jill Kirby? I think | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
it demonstrates how very hard the Government needs to work to try to | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
row Bakke on some of the form-filling that has accrued over | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
the many years. -- row back. We couldn't trust people to do things | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
and everything had to be established in wrieteding. I think Michael Gove | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
have made moves in the right direction by giving more | :44:16. | :44:17. | |
independence to schools. But actually the coalition for a | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
Liberal-Conservative organisation, which ought to be more liberalising, | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
has been frightened about getting rid of CRB checks and databases | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
without which nobody is trust to do anything, so amongst not only | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
teachers but social workers and public servants, the compulsion to - | :44:38. | :44:45. | |
write it down and have forms to fill in about somebody's rediness before | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
you hand them on to a preschoof school to primary school, has driven | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
many good early years workers away from the profession. I think Michael | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
Gove has been trying to work in that direction but there is still a lot | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
of paper work going on in the early years. We must become, as a nation, | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
less reliant on having everything written down and on a day tie base | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
and less willing to let people trust each other and form an understanding | :45:18. | :45:21. | |
of a child's needs and use their common sense rather than have having | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
tab lighted and everything to pass a set of regulations. | :45:25. | :45:32. | |
On form-filling and when the Conservatives came in last time, | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
they introduced form-filling in hospices. A dedicated nurse, a very | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
good friend of our, who dedicated nine/ten years of her life looking | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
after patients that will not be there much longer was told, if you | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
don't fill that paperwork out. You have lost your job. Andy Burnham was | :45:57. | :46:00. | |
Health Secretary under Labour, what do you make - not perhaps that | :46:01. | :46:07. | |
point, the education point and the general principle of filling in | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
forms. It happens at the BBC? I will not say there wasn't frustrations | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
when we were in Government. The big point I make, I recognise the | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
disillusionment you are speaking of. My brother is a secondary school | :46:19. | :46:24. | |
teacher here in Warrington. An excellent school Birchwood High | :46:25. | :46:31. | |
School, he feels disill Lewesed he has seen affects of the Michael Gove | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
reforms on the ground. They are soul destroying. A free school arrived | :46:36. | :46:42. | |
even though there were ur surplus places in Warrington. That | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
destabilised - All school results have improved under Michael Gove's | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
regime. Have you to acknowledge that children who were making poor | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
headway are making better progress. So I think to ignore that, Andy, | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
claim everything was good before mg got busy is to misrepresent the | :47:00. | :47:05. | |
situation. Mitt My point was, I don't think they understand actually | :47:06. | :47:08. | |
how good some of the state schools there are in places like Warrington | :47:09. | :47:15. | |
and, I want to make this point, what we had here is a Secretary of State | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
who came in, testing for phonics in primary schools. It was about the | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
English Baccalaureate prescribing what subjects were acceptable and | :47:26. | :47:30. | |
those were not. It has been an elitist agenda. Kids not taking the | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
English Baccalaureate subjects have been pushed to one side. The Michael | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
Gove agenda to me, for me, is about some children in some schools, not | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
all children and all schools. That, for me, is why it's fundamentally | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
flawed. Let us go back to the question. The question is about the | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
burden on teaching. I go back to the questioner? Speaking on behalf of | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
schools, I would say that I think Michael Gove has lost sight that the | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
most important resources are -- a school has are the children in the | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
school, enthusiastic teachers who aren't completely exhaust and the | :48:06. | :48:08. | |
support of the families of the children in the school. It doesn't | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
necessarily come to money, it comes down to people who have the energy | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
to do the job properly. You think it's the bureaucracy that is zapping | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
the energy? I have been a teacher for 10 years, now that I have my own | :48:23. | :48:28. | |
family I feel that I can't be an effective parent and an effective | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
full-time teacher. I can't see myself doing this at 60 or 65. The | :48:33. | :48:38. | |
man in the pink shirt up there, then I will come to you. Do you think we | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
should go back to educating children instead of forming committees and | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
so-called experts and filling forms in, like it was in my day? When we | :48:50. | :48:55. | |
went to school and we were educated. Now they are all filling forms in | :48:56. | :49:04. | |
for hours on end? Dominic. I sit on the Education Committee in the House | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
of Commons that scrutinises policy. The key thing here is that we know | :49:08. | :49:15. | |
that on the international rankings that notwithstanding the money that | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
went in under Labour, 15-year-olds plummeted on the rankses for | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
numeracy literacy and science. The key is good teaching. Aunderstand | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
the frustrations with red tape that has been expressed. We are trying to | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
bring in reforms like performance-related play to | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
encourage teachers and make them feel properly rewarded. Can I finish | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
the point. Don't teach for the excellent wages. You should know | :49:43. | :49:51. | |
that! -- teachers don't teach for the excellent wages. You should know | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
that! It's not all about the money. We know that. The international | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
evidence. We had the Head of the OECD education guy come, in the key | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
is to great teaching is a better structure for the profession. | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
Greater autonomy in schools. That is what the free school and the academy | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
programme is about. He was firm about this, very rigorous | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
inspections. All of these things we are trying to introduce to boost the | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
standards of teaching. We equip our young people with the skills they | :50:19. | :50:21. | |
need to make the best of themselves and the economy. You end up with 20 | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
hours teaching out of 60 hours working as a teach sner I accept the | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
point you don't want unnecessary form-filling, you want greater atomy | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
along with those inspections. That is the formula. The person in the | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
blue shirt there. Then you, sir. I have been teaching for 20 years, | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
politics must just come out of education. I don't -- heaven knows | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
how many Education Secretaries have come and go. They want to promote | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
their careers, they have to bring in a new idea each time. As teachers we | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
have to deal with those ideas. You are cynical about Secretary of State | :50:59. | :51:05. | |
for Education? Yes, just let teachers teach. That is all we want. | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
APPLAUSE Let teachers teach. We just went to | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
school and got taught? That is what I was about to say, your point | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
there. People who have the gift for teaching do not necessarily have a | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
gift for administration. People who have a gift for administration do | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
not necessarily have a gift for teaching in the classroom. Why is it | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
we expect people to have a skill for it teaching to have the skill for | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
administration. Why can't we separate the functions. Some | :51:32. | :51:33. | |
administration is necessary. Give that to people who like filling in | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
forms and doing assessments, let the teachers who can teach, who have a | :51:39. | :51:41. | |
gift for dealing with pupils in the classroom, let them teach and do | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
what they are best at. You get the best results out of people when they | :51:46. | :51:48. | |
can examiner countries their talents and skills to the maximum. A very | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
brief point. I want to gate last question in. That is a really | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
important point. There is a contradiction. Michael Gove is | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
piling bureaucracy on some schools, but to free schools he is saying, | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
can you employ unqualified teachers and opt-out of the national | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
consider. That doesn't seem to be right to me. There is a | :52:08. | :52:09. | |
contradiction of the heart of education. Are you U turning on the | :52:10. | :52:22. | |
U-turn now? The point says we should idealise the past of our education | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
isn't right. We shouldn't be saying things were better 20, 30, 4 o 0 | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
years ago, we should look at what other countries around the world are | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
doing. If you look at the education system in European countries and | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
south Korea, teaching people more languages than we teach in this | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
country. Teaching - You said would you make a quick point. You have | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
made it. Thank you very much. James Waring. Is it time the BBC reviewed | :52:50. | :52:56. | |
its licence policy as suggested this week by Noel Noel Edmonds. Said the | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
licence fee is no longer appropriate. He wants to buy the | :53:01. | :53:03. | |
BBC. I don't know where he would get the money from that. Licence fee? I | :53:04. | :53:10. | |
think with the move towards taking more of those services online, I | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
think there is an inherent problem. I think inevitably over the | :53:16. | :53:20. | |
long-term they will have to move to a subscription model. With the BBC | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
you still have a public subsidy to fill that public... That sort of | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
quality television and radio gap that otherwise you wouldn't get in | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
the marketplace. I still think there is a need for that and an important | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
case for protecting it. The BBC, like everyone else, has to move with | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
the times. How quickly it will happen, how contentious it will be, | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
I'm not sure. I think it's almost inevitable. You, sir, up there. I | :53:45. | :53:51. | |
work abroad. I watch occasionally BBC World Service, there is Toye | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
advertising on that season. -- advertising on that season. If the | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
BBC isn't supposed to advertise, why is it advertising on its Worldsome | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
service? It doesn't go to the licence payer, that is why. Oh. They | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
are allowed to flog the product. It's the BBC? Yes it is. Should the | :54:14. | :54:20. | |
licence fee end? We should move to the subscription model and a slimmed | :54:21. | :54:24. | |
down version of the BBC. Keeping Question Time, obviously! Very | :54:25. | :54:29. | |
necessary. Can you all applaud this. | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
Plagues Thank you. Very significant point. | :54:35. | :54:40. | |
When you look at things only the BBC can do and the stuff that the BBC | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
does do, much of which is it could do commercially and in some cases | :54:45. | :54:47. | |
does, the licence fee payer doesn't see much of that. You look at the | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
things the BBC is doing which could be on commercial TV. There is no | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
justification for the BBC providing them as a niche. I would think | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
everybody would get much betteral value if we moved to a subscription | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
model. People could download what they want to watch or watch what | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
they want to watch, pay-as-you-go. People are are paying too much for | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
the TV they consume. A big imowe potion on a family budget, you talk | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
about people going to food banks, when you think of what they are | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
forking out for BBC. Than watching Sky? If Sky can get away with what | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
it charges, then I'm sure the BBC could. Another argument for | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
subscription model. I'm disturbed to be agreeing with Dominic. There are | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
many ways in which we should pay for what we consume and the whole issue | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
of iPlayer, watching again, people having, and putting a subscription | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
model would allow people to watch overseas when they can't watch | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
stuff. There needs to be a safeguard of the core functions of public | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
service broadcasting which a commercial broadcaster that will not | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
do. There isn't a broadcaster who does the kind of things at the core | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
in terms of what the BBC does in terms of its public broadcasting. Do | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
you think everybody should have a television set should in the next | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
period, when the charter comes up, be expelled to pay a sum of money to | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
the BBC to keep it going or risk being tang to court It may come out | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
of general taxation so everybody who consumes it, however we consume it, | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
puts something in into it. 608 seconds left for your answers. To to | :56:32. | :56:39. | |
Noel Edmonds I will say no deal! I think that we, I think the BBC is | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
one of the jewels in the crown. I think the licence fee is the right | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
way to pay for, it sharing the cost across the population. I would keep | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
it and make sure the next charter protects the independence of the | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
BBC. You have 30 seconds. Here is a note of unity to end the programme. | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
I agree with what Danny just said. We are good in this country in | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
running down the things that are best about, it the NHS, I would add | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
the BBC. Renowned around the world. We would miss it terribly when it's | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
gone. It's not about what you pay and get. They help to build the | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
society where we are, where we can have debates like that and news that | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
hasn't got a commercial slant on it. It's really, really important to our | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
democracy. David, your job is safe with us! Your presence on the pan | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
sell safe too. You did that in 30 seconds. We have to stop now, our | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
hour is up. Apologies. Next week we will be in Brighton. We have Roman | :57:38. | :57:48. | |
Abramovich -- Diane Abbott for Labour. The Chief Executive from | :57:49. | :57:57. | |
Next and Mick Hucknell. Get with it! He is an old one, you should know. | :57:58. | :58:05. | |
He is - I know! He will be here too. My pension will be coming to an end. | :58:06. | :58:15. | |
OK. Mick Hucknell. The week after that we will be in Bristol. The two | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
B's. Apply in the usual way, the website is on the scene. If you are | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
listening to it on Five Live the debate goes on in Question Time | :58:28. | :58:32. | |
Extra Time. Thank you to our panel, particularly those who picked me up | :58:33. | :58:37. | |
on names I get wrong. Getting my own back. To all of you who came here to | :58:38. | :58:44. | |
Warrington to take part. Until next Thursday on Question Time, from all | :58:45. | :58:47. | |
of us here, good night. | :58:48. | :58:51. |