20/03/2014 Question Time


20/03/2014

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And evening all, whether you are at home or here in the audience waiting

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to put questions to our panel and I'm always asked this - no, they do

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not know the questions in advance. Our panel tonight, one of the

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authors of yesterday's budget, the Liberal Democrat Chief Secretary to

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the Treasury, Danny Alexander. Labour's shadow Health Secretary,

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Andy Burnham. A Conservative MP, Dominic Raab who

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has been making a name for himself on the backbenches and former direct

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or director of the think-tank, Jill Kirby and a crime writer who has

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written 28 novels which have sold 12 million copies worldwide, Val

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McDemid-. And David Burgess Joyce, your

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question, please. It would appear to us northern folk that the economy is

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being driven by the south-east. Does the panel have any idea when the

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rest of us will feel some of that heat? When is it going to reach

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here? Val McDermid? It is hard to say when it will. We seem to have

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been saying the same thing for the last 35 years. I can remember

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working and living in the north-west of England for most of that time. It

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does seem there is a strong focus on what happens down the south and we

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end up with what is leftover on the table. Most of us who remember the

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'80s remember how deeply our traditional sfris cut in the north

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and doing was done to replace them. -- traditional industries.

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Yesterday's budget didn't offer anything for those stuck out in the

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regions. Do you think it is deliberate regret? I don't think it

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is deliberate. I don't think they. Dominic Raab First of all the

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recovery is going well. We have record jobsworth. There has been 1.

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7 million new jobs in the private sector under this Government. Double

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the record of a decade under Labour and I don't accept that it has been

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all down in the south or in London. Up here in Warrington, for example,

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unemployment is down 30% since this Government. There have 2,500 new

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businesses between 2010 and 2012 but I accept we need it make sure we

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have a more balanced recovery and stronger economic competitiveness

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across the whole country. That's what, for example, investigating in

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shale gas which will hopefully reap dividends across the country and

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what things like HS2 are supposed to do and even with this week, we have

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heard with the new updates with the plans that Hitachi have said they're

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going to base their global rail business in the UK and build another

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factory in the north. We are getting there, slowly but surely. I accept

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the premise. In practice we are making gross. Juf said it is varied

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but 80% of new jobs are created are in London and four out of five are

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in low-paid sectors. If only 20% of the new jobs are coming to the

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north, there is a disproportion to that. You cannot say we are all

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recovering the say. We are not in all this together. The south are

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getting 08% more jobs than the north. Andy Burnham, answer that. My

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point back to Dominic would be - recovery going well for who? You

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look for the for unemployment across the north-west? We then the up this

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week in the north-west. It is an indictment. Look at the Budget. The

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Evening Standard last night proclaimed it a Budget for London

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and announced the investment for the different pet schemes people were

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raising in London. What was in it for the north or north-west? I

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didn't hear T you put your finger on it. They talk about private sector

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jobs. How many are part-time? How many of them are zero hours

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contracts. I forever have people in my surgery saying - they won't let

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me work more than 23 hours because they don't want ton pay the extras

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or we have people on zero hours contracts, so they can't find out

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what they will earn one week to the next, so they cannot plan for their

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life, get a loan or a mortgage. That's the reality of the economy.

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Too much in the north. I have said this, for many years, we flif a

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London-centric country. We live in. Policies designed for London, not

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the whole country and this has to change.

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APPLAUSE Danny Alexander? Well, I think the

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questionnaire raises one of the most important points for the UK economy,

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which is how can we make sure that growth is balanced, that the future

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of our is balanced and benefits everyone across the whole of the UK.

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Frankly, we had several decades of governments that were obsessed with

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the City of London, banking system and financial service, spent all

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their time as Andy and his colleagues did, going on prawn

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cocktail offensives to charm the bankers and City Whizz Kidz to pay

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more tax on the basing that would support everything. And the things

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like manufacturing community, for the whole of the country,

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particularfully Scotland, and in the north, were neglected. The decline

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that Labour had. That's wrong. Some of the things we were doing

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yesterday, to directly answer your question, supporting energy

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intensive industries, chemical and steel works and the big

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manufacturing companies through changes on energy policies,

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supporting manufacturing businesses to invest, in new plant and

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equipment by doubling capital allowances available to businesses

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to invest in growing their own business, additional support for

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apprenticeships, crucially important for growing the skills we need for

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future economy. There was more money to encourage small and medium-sized

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businesses to take on apprentices. One of the things I'm proud of. So,

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when he says the evening Papers in London said it was a budget for

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London and it is London-centric, say that's what they are, but not what

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you were? That is what I would say. I said in Scotland it was a budget

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for Scotland because we are supporting investment in the oil and

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goes sector which is crucially important to the UK UK economy. Do

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you agree with him, it is a budget for everybody? I must confess, I

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thought the budget was OK. It wasn't a criticism. Coalition government,

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who I think are doing a reasonable job. It was more around pushing

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people out of London into the provinces with their businesses. I

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used to work in HR. I still keep an eye on all the jobs now seem to be

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advertised, even the senior jobs and it is almost like there is a retreat

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into London. It is a different country from the rest of the UK and

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this is' quite worrying. -- and that's quite worrying.

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APPLAUSE The woman at the back in orange.

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Could I just ask about youth employment? You mentioned

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apprenticeships but it is still a big concern in the north-west,

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certainly. I think youth employment is a big concern across the whole

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country. Youth unemployment is starting to come down but we need to

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do more to help. One of the things I'm proudest of as a Liberal

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Democrat in the Coalition Government is the massive expansion in the

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apprenticeships we have presided over. It is a good way for

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businesses to take on young people and for young people to gain the

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skills they need for the future of our economy. That alongside the big

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cuts to income tax for people on lower incomes, are two of the areas

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where I think the Liberal Democrats have made the biggest contribution

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to getting the country back on the right track. I share the concern

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that too much of the growth and wealth is concentrated in the

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south-east. We need to look at Government's policies, both this

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Government and its predecessor, one of the most damaging policies as

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Danny alluded to is carbon tax on industries, industries that were

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successful. Places like Stoke-on-Trent not far from here and

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in the north. You cannot expect the whole country to unite around the

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same jobs that are happening in London. We can't all be dependent on

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consumer spending and debt-fuel growth. We knead to be making and

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exporting but that doesn't just happen through special little

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allowances and a little bit of money here and there. It is fundamentally

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changed by the kind of energy policies we have. If we are making

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it impossibleably expensive to manufacturer He this country and all

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the other energy intensive industries which are clobbered by

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green taxes which are OK in London at Metropolitan dinner parties but

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in the country have had a profound effect in the economy. We cannot

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reinvent those things and bring those jobs back overnight. We will

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not do it by tinkering with the carbon floor price. We need to do

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much more. Woman at the back there. Well, I feel this is all started in

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Liverpool in the '80s and I believe Margaret Thatcher had a big Nelson

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Mandela this process but Dominic mentioned HS2 bringing income to the

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North West. It is not stopping anywhere here. It is stopping at

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mnch Europe and then carrying on. You will get people flying into

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Manchester Airport, straight out of the north-west. I don't understand

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how you feel that's going to be bringing much benefit.

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On that point, the interim report that came in this week on this, said

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one of the things - two key things - first, we need to get more value for

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money out of the project. I know there are concerns about that. But,

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also, we want to bring forward the extension of phase 1 so it

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incorporates Crewe as a regional hub. You are trie. Can't just be an

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elevator between north and south. -- you are right. It needs to promote

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greater connections between people and businesses.

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We will take a question on this. We will stick with the idea of the

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north/south but a question from Leanne Round on HS2. Is the high

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speed rail link worth the money? Is it worth the money and will it

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achieve what you were saying? What do you think? Are you for it? I am

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for the principle but we will have to see whether it is worth the

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money. You know, there can't be a blank cheque as Ed Balls has said. I

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grew up in this area and know it well. I observe the routes south are

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full. The West Coast Main Line and M6 are full. We cannot carry on as

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we are, we will not be able to move. The principle is a good one but the

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precise plan, I don't think does maximise the benefit for the

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north-west. I have had to ask some tough questions about HS2. It comes

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right through my constituency in Leigh T causes maximum disruption in

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my view but offers very little benefit as the lady at the back was

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saying. -- it causes. I have called for

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changes, I have said there needs to be changes to maximise all of the

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north-west. How do you do that? You are all talking about the north not

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benefitting. David Higgins said that. You are saying it got behind

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because of Labour but what you have done, Jill Kirby says is not enough.

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How is this part of the country going ever to catch up and balance?

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Is it possible it can balance with the south-east and London, or is it

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a pipe dream that politicians talk about and never achieve. He has said

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there need to be changes to improve connectivity. I agree. Coming back

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to Danny. He said the north went into decline in the Labour years. I

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fundamentally object to that. I saw Liverpool and Manchester go into

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massive decline in the 1980s and 1990s. I had to leave Warrington, as

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a young man, after university to get a job in the south because there was

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nothing here. Liverpool revived, Manchester revived this. Area

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revived under our Government. You took away the north-west development

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agency, which in my view was a disastrous step and has made it

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harder for this region to go in and win the inward investment we need.

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Well I'm not here to defend the record of the Tory Government. You

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said we did nothing. Of the Tory Governments in the 1980s and 1990s.

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I agree of much of what you intad that. I have to say to have a Labour

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spokesman coming on and talking about the economy without

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recognising the mess your party made of the economy, without

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recognising... APPLAUSE AND BOOS Recognising the way the financial

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system collapsed because of the lack of regulation under Gordon Brown,

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the way in which Labour was running a structural deficit before the

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crisis. I think a simple apology. You can write it down if you don't

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want to say it. Can I just say, there is nothing

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more annoying to someone outside the political loop to hearing

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politicians continually blaming the ones who came before.

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APPLAUSE Surely there has to be some kind of

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statute of limitations on a big boy did it and ran away.

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The one thing Danny won't admit is he inherited a growing economy from

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us and his Government put it back into recession. Let's take Val's

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advice and not fight the battles that are over and look ahead to the

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problems that this part of the world is now facing. There is a hand up

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there. I don't see who it is attached to. The man there.

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If you are on about HS2. Why not start it at the north and go down?

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Are you going to say you are going to do that? One of the things David

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Higgins was saying in his report this week was we should get the

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northern section going more quickly. That we should get a new hub in

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Crewe, to be opening at the same time as the Birmingham link opens,

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to get economic benefits to this part of the country more quickly.

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That must be right. The other thing he was saying and Andy is right

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about this, is that it is important to use HS2. It is not just about

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connecting Manchester or Birmingham to London. It is actually about

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getting connections between northern cities quicker, more effective.

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Speeding up a transport system and infrastructure system in the north.

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I am a backbencher, I understand the fors and against it, I think we need

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to make it work. I'm not clear if Labour are sitting on the fence. Are

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you foreor against this major infrastructure project there to

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boost the economy as a whole but also particularly the north? Jtsds

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give me a better plan for the people of Warrington, for the people in

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Liverpool? You haven't done that. He wanted to go - Give me a better

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plan. That is what David Higgins said. It's not good enough to sit on

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the fence. The North doesn't end here. I have lived in

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Northumberland. When you say LS2 is going to the North they say, no it's

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going to Manchester. They don't think that's the North. All right.

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There is a whole chunk of the country north of here. Hello,

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trains! We will move onto another aspect of this Budget. Hang on.

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Another aspect of this Budget. Remember, you can join in this

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debate right now, texting or Twitter.

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this is another aspect of the Budget, before we leave the Budget.

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Catherine Whitley, please. Is the Chancellor right to trust pensioners

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not to blow their pension pot, or will they spend it on booze, Bingo

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and buy-to-let? APPLAUSE

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Booze, bingo and buy-to-let. Booze and bingo is a sore point with you,

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Danny Alexander, you said its with a grass grass the way the Tories

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published it. I thought it was a spoof? The Chancellor right to

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pensioners not to blow their pension? We can trust pensioners to

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use their money that they have saved for their whole lives for their own

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retirement responsibly to make the best choices for themselves.

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Particularly now, that we've cleared away the bureaucracy of means

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testing thats with a big part of the pension system until recently. We

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are moving to a situation from 2016 where we have a single-tier pension.

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The level of the basic state pension will on its own lift people out of

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the means testing process. A strong platform for people to save on.

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There is a basic level of support which means people will not fall

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back on the state additionally. It's right to say, if you have saved all

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your life. Put money aside, you should have flexibility to choose

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how you use to to benefit yourself rather than being constrained to

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annuity which have been criticised as not offering the best value for

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me. It's absolutely right to trust the people to make the right

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decisions for themselves. Do you agree? The temptation will be there

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for people to spend it on something else. Do you think that matters?

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Probably not, no. A major change this, isn't it? Before we were told

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what to do with our pensions we are free to do what we want. People

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should be trusted with their own money, money they saved. The theory

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if people know they have more freedom when they get to retirement

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they are more inclined to feel to save for it. The principle is

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obviously a good one. I think, we should bear in mind that the reason

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why annuities are so appalling unremowntive at the moment is

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because of Government policy and QE saversers have had a desperately

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hard time this policy is something that will possibly make life a

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little bit better. It doesn't go very far. All the people... All

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those pensioners who have already retired, and are stuck with the

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annuities they have got, will get no comfort for this. So, you know, it's

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not all Rosie in the pensioners' garden because of this

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liberalisation. In principle, it is a good move. A good thing. Do you

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think it's a good thin, sir? I think if a pensioner is lucky enough and

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intelligent enough to save money for their retirement, they are

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intelligent enough to spend it. The real question is, will Andy Burnham

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rebell if he doesn't get his station at Leigh like he said at a public

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meeting? Sorry? What you do you mean - will he rebell? He said if he

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didn't get a public station? I'm driving a hard bargain. I want a

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station. Will you rebell? I will wait to see what the plan is. Did

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you say you would rebell? We were talking about pensions. You answer

:19:17.:19:19.

him? It's in the the next parliament we don't have a plan yet. Will you

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rebell? Is answer the question. I said to the Government we need

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changes. David Higgins said there will be changes to the northern

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section. Will you rebell, you know you won't get a on... He will not

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answer. Let's move on. Well tried, sir. Well trierd! Up there. As an

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addition to the question that the lady asked about the changes in

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pensions. Yes. Does the panel believe that this could just be a

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cynical way of the Government raising billions in tax revenue?

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What do you think? I think this whole conversation about what we

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will do with our ill-gotten gains or our hard saved money is a diversion.

:20:15.:20:18.

Yesterday's Budget, for me, was a very good Budget. I have a

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pensioners pot, ISA and premium bonds. It was a Budget for people

:20:24.:20:27.

who have. I don't like paying my taxes any more than anybody else. My

:20:28.:20:32.

tax bill drops into my inbox my heart sinks. I pay the taxes, it's

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the cost you pay for living in a civilised society. A civilised

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society is how we take care of people who don't have.

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APPLAUSE All this conversation about will we

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spend our pension pots On holidays or pay off our mortgages or be

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sensible or invest it? It's a diversion from what is ailing this

:20:58.:21:01.

country at the moment, the tight, tight budgets that so many of our

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people are living on. Not just pensioners, people across the board.

:21:05.:21:07.

Young people who have been betrayed by the promises made to them. Who

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have gone off to university got degrees, run up huge amount of debts

:21:14.:21:17.

and pushing a trolley up-and-down a train because there aren't graduate

:21:18.:21:21.

jobs for them. That upsets me that I care about. Yesterday's Budget was

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for the haves, can we think of the people who are not served by the

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Budget, who are not the haves? APPLAUSE

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The first and most important thing, if you are the most vulnerable in

:21:38.:21:42.

our society, the unemployed, creating new jobs, 1.7 million jobs

:21:43.:21:47.

in the private-sector is critical. It's for the economically most

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vulnerable. I would also point out that if you're... The changes we are

:21:52.:21:55.

making, some have been difficult, from my own experience some people

:21:56.:21:58.

are struggling with the cost of the living. The raw fact of the matter

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is elderly poverty, child poverty, fuel poverty, inequality, believe it

:22:05.:22:09.

or not, under the statistics, the objective statistics is lower now

:22:10.:22:12.

than it was under Labour. I want to pick up on the point about savings.

:22:13.:22:16.

We all talk about Government spending and Government debt,

:22:17.:22:21.

household debt, private debt in this country, is bigger as a proportion

:22:22.:22:26.

of GDP than Government debt. There are measures to encourage saving.

:22:27.:22:30.

From a pensioner bond to scrapping the 1 o 0p rate of saving for low

:22:31.:22:35.

earners. That is incredibly important. Saving is one of the

:22:36.:22:39.

economic virtures in the economy. When you get to the end and worked

:22:40.:22:42.

hard and saved, of course people should be able to have the freedom

:22:43.:22:45.

to spend that money how they want to. The idea that we suddenly jump

:22:46.:22:50.

in and boss them around at that stage and have rigidity and they can

:22:51.:22:59.

only go down the the annuity route is crazy. The man there. I would

:23:00.:23:03.

like to raise the point that the Budget provided nothing for young

:23:04.:23:07.

people at all. The legacy of this Government will be a lost

:23:08.:23:12.

generation. We -- the first thing this Tory-led Government was cut

:23:13.:23:15.

youth and career services. You burnt the bridge for young people getting

:23:16.:23:18.

into employment straightaway with that. I keep on hearing tonight that

:23:19.:23:25.

the economy is in recovery. Can you tell me, why the rise for food banks

:23:26.:23:27.

is just so high? Answer the food banks first before

:23:28.:23:39.

we forget and his point about young people. We are seeing an increase in

:23:40.:23:45.

food banks in a range of developing countries, in Germany, in Canada, in

:23:46.:23:50.

those countries... Always someone else... You are seeing greater use

:23:51.:23:54.

of food banks. Of course, there are people who are having to rely on

:23:55.:23:59.

food banks. That is for a whole range - a whole number of people are

:24:00.:24:05.

relaying on food banks. Because their benefits are delayed or they

:24:06.:24:08.

are out of work. A range of circumstances. We are working so

:24:09.:24:12.

hard to create more jobs in this country. The answer to the point of

:24:13.:24:15.

the young man at the back about young people there, a number of

:24:16.:24:20.

things. Firstly, creating jobs in this country, 1.6 million jobs

:24:21.:24:26.

created since 2010, expansion in apprenticeships there are a bigger

:24:27.:24:29.

range of options for young people to get the skills and employment they

:24:30.:24:32.

need. Taking away national insurance from employers who employ Under-21s

:24:33.:24:36.

to make it more attractive for employers to take on young people to

:24:37.:24:39.

work. Cutting income tax for people who pay tax at the basic rate,

:24:40.:24:45.

lifting the tax threshold to ?10,500. Tax cut to ?800 to 25

:24:46.:24:51.

million working in this country, it's helping to make work pay

:24:52.:24:55.

better, particularly for people on low paid work. There is a lot in

:24:56.:24:58.

this Budget to answer the question that you raised, sir. There there

:24:59.:25:05.

you are. Andy Burnham what do you say, he has the answers? To listen

:25:06.:25:08.

to the Chancellor yesterday and to Danny now, you would think the

:25:09.:25:12.

biggest problem we have is where we invest our spare cash we have left

:25:13.:25:17.

over, the savings we have got. They didn't...

:25:18.:25:20.

APPLAUSE They didn't mention the cost of

:25:21.:25:23.

living once. The Chancellor didn't mention it. It doesn't appear in the

:25:24.:25:26.

Budget statement. The biggest problem we have, is people keeping

:25:27.:25:31.

their heads above water, isn't it? Making the ends meet and feeding the

:25:32.:25:35.

kids. That is happening now. This Budget was silent on that. Nothing

:25:36.:25:39.

to say to the 900,000 young people who can't find a job. Nothing to say

:25:40.:25:44.

to the proud people reduced to using food banks. That's not true. Mothers

:25:45.:25:50.

coming in with health problems and they're feeding their children. They

:25:51.:25:55.

have not ate for three days. They have nothing to say on these issues.

:25:56.:25:59.

Nothing at all. The thing I want to finish off by saying, this is the

:26:00.:26:04.

week when Oxfam said that five families in this country have have

:26:05.:26:09.

more wealth between them than the bottom 20%. The IFS said today that

:26:10.:26:14.

the people hardest hit by all of their budgets, outside of the top

:26:15.:26:20.

10% are the bottom 10%. That is outrageous. This is what you get.

:26:21.:26:26.

APPLAUSE When you get budgets written by, as

:26:27.:26:30.

Michael Gove said, public schoolboys. Public schoolboys have

:26:31.:26:35.

no idea what life is like for ordinary people in Warrington and

:26:36.:26:40.

elsewhere. APPLAUSE

:26:41.:26:42.

A class matter? When we get on to Eton we know there is nothing of

:26:43.:26:45.

substance coming from the Labour Party. Michael Gove said it! Michael

:26:46.:26:52.

Gove said it. Can I answer the lady's question. I opened a food

:26:53.:26:57.

bank which is a well off village in one of the most affluent parts of

:26:58.:27:00.

the country. Cost of living is affecting everyone across the

:27:01.:27:06.

country. The Trussell Trust is the nation co-ordinator, number one

:27:07.:27:10.

co-ordinator for the food banks, they say the two biggest causes are

:27:11.:27:14.

global food prices and energy prices. There isn't a huge amount we

:27:15.:27:19.

can do about global markets. There something you can do. In this

:27:20.:27:24.

country, about ?400 goes on the average families annual food bill

:27:25.:27:31.

from agriculture subsidies. We want to reform the policy in the EU. On

:27:32.:27:38.

energy, we have to to be energy self sufficient. Andy needs to explain

:27:39.:27:42.

why they closed down seven nuclear powerser stations one of the reasons

:27:43.:27:46.

why we have such energy prices now. There are specific reasons why we

:27:47.:27:50.

have this problem with food banks. Politicians shouldn't get off the

:27:51.:27:53.

hook that easy. What are you going to po it? I want to move on. We have

:27:54.:27:59.

a lot more questions to come. I don't want the moment to pass

:28:00.:28:02.

without drawing your attention, in case you missed it, to Ed Balls new

:28:03.:28:09.

uf missism for death when he was talking about pensions. He said,

:28:10.:28:15.

when retirement comes to an end. Did you hear him say this? I didn't hear

:28:16.:28:19.

it. When retirement comes to an end. That is what happens now. We will

:28:20.:28:23.

break away entirely from this. It may come up in some other form. This

:28:24.:28:29.

is from Susan Wright, please. Are we witnessing the dawn of a new cold

:28:30.:28:32.

war with Russia as a result of imposing sanctions against them? It

:28:33.:28:37.

a new cold war we are facing with Russia? Yes. I think we might go

:28:38.:28:42.

further back than that. I think actually everyone has been rather

:28:43.:28:45.

brought up short by the fact that things that used to happen and used

:28:46.:28:50.

to provoke wars, going back some way now, can happen again, countries can

:28:51.:28:54.

annex another country. Russia can move in on the Crimea there is

:28:55.:28:58.

nothing very much that the US or the EU can do about it. We are left

:28:59.:29:03.

looking rather empty in our rhetoric and Putin is clearly away there is

:29:04.:29:08.

nothing very much we can do to follow-through. Do you say there is

:29:09.:29:12.

nothing we can do? If we have a sanctions war with them it won't do

:29:13.:29:17.

Russia any more harm with them than the rest of us. The Europe is

:29:18.:29:24.

terrifiified because countries are dependant on energy. Cyprus and

:29:25.:29:28.

Greece are dependant on Russian money am. They bought a lot of their

:29:29.:29:31.

debt. We don't have any prospect I think of having any kind of combined

:29:32.:29:36.

EU policy on how to deal with this. I don't think we will be able to do

:29:37.:29:40.

very much about it. I think it's a reflection of a long period of

:29:41.:29:45.

rather empty foreign policy in this country and indeed the Obama

:29:46.:29:48.

approach to foreign polling Sid, which is to talk big, but have very

:29:49.:29:54.

limited ability to do anything about it. We needed to think about these

:29:55.:29:57.

things when we have our defence reviews rather than just assume we

:29:58.:30:01.

don't have kind old fashioned war any more. We have to wonder whether

:30:02.:30:07.

it might be possible for Russia to expand its ambitions further and

:30:08.:30:12.

being complacent in assuming by forbidding someone to come to the G8

:30:13.:30:15.

that will be enough toll halt Putin's advance. I don't think it

:30:16.:30:18.

is. We need to really reassess what is we have been doing and the

:30:19.:30:23.

signals we have been giving in our foreign policy by threatening to get

:30:24.:30:26.

involved in Syria, but knowing we can't. Backing off. Putin saw that

:30:27.:30:31.

and he drew his own conclusions. No, I think it's potentially very

:30:32.:30:36.

serious, I think it should be a very sharp reminder to the US, to the EU

:30:37.:30:41.

in particular and to Britain that to go grandstanding on a world stage,

:30:42.:30:44.

when you have no ability to follow-through, very limited

:30:45.:30:47.

capacity to do anything about it, is perhaps not wise. Indeed, could be

:30:48.:30:50.

quite destabilising. Thank you. The former Conservative Foreign

:30:51.:31:02.

Secretary said that the EU's reaction was pathetic and feeble. Do

:31:03.:31:07.

you agree with that? Do you think the Government and the EU are doing

:31:08.:31:13.

the right thing? They are very limited options. One of the things,

:31:14.:31:16.

something we should not be doing, is going down a knee-jerk reaction of

:31:17.:31:20.

saying it is the Cold War all over again. I think it is much more

:31:21.:31:23.

complicated. I think the Joe yoe politics are more complicated. I

:31:24.:31:28.

think part is a hangover from the Soviet system where the Russians put

:31:29.:31:37.

their own level of people into all the Soviet republics to run them for

:31:38.:31:42.

mother Russia. Those people got left behind. Those people are now under

:31:43.:31:47.

pressure culturally, where they got left behind. This is them saying to

:31:48.:31:55.

Putin, you are the strongman, do something. I don't think it is a

:31:56.:31:59.

land grab, we have to find a different way of approaching this. I

:32:00.:32:02.

am not a politician. I don't know the answers. It is more than saying,

:32:03.:32:07.

let's do these sanctions. Maybe the way we resolved the Balkans might

:32:08.:32:10.

show us a different way of coming at this, although I'm not sure what it

:32:11.:32:15.

would be? Kosovo? Maybe not that one.

:32:16.:32:20.

Well I do think it is pathetic and feeble and I think if the UK

:32:21.:32:23.

Government don't intervene, it is going to have a destabilising impact

:32:24.:32:30.

in the Balkans. I served 22 years and this is' what I believed. What

:32:31.:32:35.

would you do? I think Val is right. It is more complicated than going

:32:36.:32:40.

back to the gold war. It seems to me Putin is trying to have it both

:32:41.:32:43.

ways. He wants to strut the world stage at the Sochi games, getting

:32:44.:32:47.

the respect, supposedly of the international community for hosting

:32:48.:32:51.

that, and days later, wants to invade the Sovereign territory of a

:32:52.:32:55.

neighbouring country. He can't have it both ways. I think he is trying

:32:56.:32:59.

to call everyone's bluff. He is saying - take May on if you dare. I

:33:00.:33:03.

think, you know, I welcome what Obama has said today. I think the

:33:04.:33:08.

Obama foreign policy is a big improvement, actually on his

:33:09.:33:12.

predecessor and he isp toughening the rhetoric. -- he is. I would say

:33:13.:33:20.

- we had the Sochi Winter Olympics, 2018 we are supposedly all going to

:33:21.:33:24.

the World Cup in Russia. Now, are we comfortable with that idea? Let's do

:33:25.:33:27.

something that the ordinary Russian on the street will understand. I

:33:28.:33:31.

can't see how we should all now just say... You think cancelling the

:33:32.:33:36.

World Cup will make a difference? I'm just saying, on every level we

:33:37.:33:40.

have to send a different message and we have to be prepared to take him

:33:41.:33:45.

on. I would say it is FIFA's decision but they need to revisit

:33:46.:33:50.

that. He can not pretend he is part of the club, strutting the world

:33:51.:33:53.

stage and taking steps like this, that are fundamentally in violation

:33:54.:33:58.

of international law. We are part of NATO. NATO was set up to stop

:33:59.:34:02.

Russian expansionism. I have not heard NATO mentioned by any

:34:03.:34:05.

politicians was wrefr. We want it seem to use economic sanctions. --

:34:06.:34:11.

bhasever If we -- whatsoever. If we pulled together as NATO and invited

:34:12.:34:16.

Ukraine to join us, Russia would stop.

:34:17.:34:20.

Danny Alexander, Just wait a second, you don't have a microphone.

:34:21.:34:26.

I would say this is an incredibly serious situation, because what you

:34:27.:34:29.

are saying s a violation of international law, the sort that we

:34:30.:34:34.

haven't seen for many decades in our hinterland in Europe. One country

:34:35.:34:40.

invading, annexing a piece of territory from another Sovereign

:34:41.:34:44.

state is a serious thing. This isn't some far away country where we can

:34:45.:34:49.

just stand idly by. We have to make sure we speak with one voice in

:34:50.:34:53.

yumplt it is, of course, difficult sometimes because we have 28

:34:54.:34:55.

different countries to pull together. -- in Europe. But we as

:34:56.:34:59.

Britain as lone do not have the influence by ourselves to thing

:35:00.:35:04.

this, but the European Union is Russia's major trading partner. A

:35:05.:35:08.

major customer for energy industry. I think the sanctions the Americans

:35:09.:35:12.

have put in place, the further saengess is very well. There is a

:35:13.:35:15.

European summit going on at the moment. -- further sanctions. What

:35:16.:35:19.

would you like to see Europe do? At the moment, the reaction from Moscow

:35:20.:35:25.

is to street them as a joke. A cause of irony and sarcasm.

:35:26.:35:31.

Putin's advisor said the only thing that interested him about America is

:35:32.:35:37.

Ginsberg and Jackson Pollock. Well, I don't know about that but what is

:35:38.:35:43.

on the agenda at the European Council tonight and tomorrow is a

:35:44.:35:48.

stiffening of sanctions, more embarrows against people and asset

:35:49.:35:54.

freezes. To take on Jill's point we have to potentially move to

:35:55.:35:59.

targeting the economic area. Russia's economy is heavily

:36:00.:36:03.

dependent on exports and so on. If we move to the next stage when

:36:04.:36:08.

sanctions haven't been effective, we need to move to more targeted and

:36:09.:36:12.

economic trade issues that. Might hurt us but it'll hurt the Russians

:36:13.:36:17.

more, and will send a strong message that what they are doing, violating

:36:18.:36:22.

international law, is not acceptable. Do you think Europe can

:36:23.:36:26.

agree on a common policy? There are 28 different interests. Doesn't it

:36:27.:36:29.

demonstrate the limitations of trying to work with Europe and have

:36:30.:36:33.

a common policy? The opposite. I think you are Europe has a strong

:36:34.:36:35.

common interest in the rule of international law. We cannot say

:36:36.:36:38.

international law stops at the boundaries of the European Union.

:36:39.:36:41.

That would be to go back to a 19th century way of looking at T Does

:36:42.:36:46.

that mean a European Defence Force will move in? ? We have to work hard

:36:47.:36:51.

to get agreement. That's what we are doing today. Seeing strong signals

:36:52.:36:56.

from the Germans, frechl and so on, that we are killing to move to the

:36:57.:36:59.

next stage. -- French. We have agreed at a European level a staged

:37:00.:37:02.

approach, escalating sanctions and we need to make sure we

:37:03.:37:05.

follow-through. Do you see it, as the way the questioner is asking,

:37:06.:37:12.

the dawn of a new Cold War? I agree with Val. I don't think you can

:37:13.:37:16.

express it as is employsically as that. But I think it is one of the

:37:17.:37:20.

biggest challenges for the framework of international law and regulation

:37:21.:37:26.

that we have seen. -- simplistically. We don't know if

:37:27.:37:33.

Putin is doing this domestically. He is weak at home. I agree with

:37:34.:37:38.

Malcolm Rifkind, the I's response has been sof riffic at best and not

:37:39.:37:44.

nearly with enough teeth. I think we should be kicking them out of the G8

:37:45.:37:48.

and the Council of Europe or suspend them and the sapgss should be

:37:49.:37:53.

tougher with the threat, a week ago of trade sanctions. -- and the

:37:54.:37:56.

sanctions should be tougher. We need to know how to get out of this and

:37:57.:38:02.

not into it. Russia has a point about Ukraine, if you look at

:38:03.:38:04.

Finland and neutrality that should be on the table to assuage the

:38:05.:38:10.

legitimate concerns and you can look at the illegitimate ones. The young

:38:11.:38:14.

lady here is saying the interim government is Ukraine is not the

:38:15.:38:18.

most enlightened. You put it a different way. Not the most

:38:19.:38:22.

enlighten enlightened bunch of leaders.

:38:23.:38:29.

So they have to be pushed to reach compromise and Putin knows there is

:38:30.:38:34.

a price to pay and a clear mix of carrots and sticks for the steps he

:38:35.:38:38.

needs to take next. The woman behind? They are talking about Putin

:38:39.:38:43.

and Russia trespassing into the Ukraine and Crimea but the people of

:38:44.:38:47.

Crimea actually asked for his help. Their leader went to Russia for help

:38:48.:38:51.

and the people of Crimea wanted to go to Russia. The same as the people

:38:52.:38:56.

of the Falklands wanted to stay part of Britain rather than Argentina.

:38:57.:39:01.

Who are we to butt in and tell them how to do things? Rather than token

:39:02.:39:08.

gestures around sporting veents or other international events like that

:39:09.:39:13.

-- events - I find myself agreeing with Danny Alexander, there has to

:39:14.:39:16.

be enforceable, diplomatic economic sanctions. Ironically, Russian's own

:39:17.:39:23.

sanctions, regarding energy, would damage what slr a Frank tile

:39:24.:39:27.

economy. They may end up shooting themselves in the foot. -- would

:39:28.:39:31.

damage what is already a fragile economy.

:39:32.:39:33.

Would you like to pick up that point, about the overwhelming wish

:39:34.:39:38.

of the people of Crimea? You have to be careful to treat in anyway

:39:39.:39:51.

legitimate or serious, to take a referendum that was organised it at

:39:52.:39:54.

the point of a gun in 11 days. Do you dispute what Putin says, 82%

:39:55.:39:59.

voted and 96% voted in favour I think there is no evidence it was a

:40:00.:40:03.

referendum conducted in a free and fair way. Therefore, I don't think

:40:04.:40:07.

you can take that argument seriously, otherwise you would say -

:40:08.:40:12.

any country can run into some other country, organise a trumped-up

:40:13.:40:16.

referendum with a few days' notice and say they are being invited in.

:40:17.:40:24.

But Ukraine don't conduct their own affairs that well. The point about

:40:25.:40:30.

NATO. If Ukraine joined NATO that would be disastrous. Where are the

:40:31.:40:34.

UN? Ban Ki-Moon making a token appearance in Russia, a farce. Why

:40:35.:40:39.

weren't they there three weeks ago when a democratically-elected

:40:40.:40:43.

government in Ukraine were overthrown by a main or the? I will

:40:44.:40:47.

move on. Thank you to the audience for their contributions. I will go

:40:48.:40:57.

on to Naomi Capper. With teachers now working an average

:40:58.:41:02.

of almost 60 hours per week and only one-third of those spent actually

:41:03.:41:07.

teaching children, can the panel understand why many no longer wish

:41:08.:41:11.

to remain in the profession? You are a teacher. Do you want to leave? I,

:41:12.:41:20.

like many teachers, I love my job. I I'm very privileged to do my job. I

:41:21.:41:26.

spend the majority of my time with the children, watching them grow,

:41:27.:41:30.

nurturing them and I see a lot of things that their parents don't see.

:41:31.:41:37.

But Your problem is that of the 60 hours... The 60 hours... That most

:41:38.:41:43.

of the time is not spent teaching. It is form-filling, ticking boxes.

:41:44.:41:51.

Analysing data. Getting ready for it change after change after change.

:41:52.:41:54.

Danny Alexander, is that the position? Well, I think that most

:41:55.:42:01.

teachers are lake you - that I know, they are utterly dedicated

:42:02.:42:05.

professionals, who want to see the children in their classes doing as

:42:06.:42:10.

well as possible and work incredibly thoord do that. I pay credit do you

:42:11.:42:14.

and your colleagues for what you do. - in incredibly hard to do that.

:42:15.:42:19.

There is a problem about too much bureaucracy and rules in the

:42:20.:42:21.

classroom which you have drawn attention to. That's why we are

:42:22.:42:25.

trying to give more fliblingts and freedom to headteachers. -- more

:42:26.:42:28.

flexibility. To make sure the school is organised in the right way. Why

:42:29.:42:32.

we have put more money into schools through the pupil premium. Michael

:42:33.:42:37.

Gove has had four years to get rid of the things that are complained

:42:38.:42:41.

about. Form-filling, the most common reason given for the hours that they

:42:42.:42:46.

work. Michael Gove strikes me as the kind of person who would object to

:42:47.:42:50.

that And there is more to be done. The point I was going to make is we

:42:51.:42:53.

are also trying to make sure that every child leaves school with the

:42:54.:42:56.

best-possible skills and education to get on in life. One assumes that.

:42:57.:43:04.

That's why we are skewing reforces more towards kids from the most

:43:05.:43:08.

disadvantaged backgrounds because over decades we have seen far too

:43:09.:43:12.

many children leaving school. You are not answering the question. I

:43:13.:43:16.

am. I'm talking about how resources going into schools are skewed

:43:17.:43:21.

towards enabling teachers like Naomi to do what they want to do, to

:43:22.:43:27.

devote to the kids... Why are they spending 40 hours form-filling and

:43:28.:43:32.

only 20... I don't know if the survey is accurate? Well, it is a

:43:33.:43:38.

Department of Education survey of primary schools. I maybe wrong.

:43:39.:43:44.

Michael Gove might have actually got the survey wrong. I have not seen

:43:45.:43:48.

the details of the survey. I will not go into the detail. I'm saying

:43:49.:43:52.

we are trying to make sure teachers have more time to spend,

:43:53.:43:55.

particularly with the kids who need the help most. Jill Kirby? I think

:43:56.:43:59.

it demonstrates how very hard the Government needs to work to try to

:44:00.:44:03.

row Bakke on some of the form-filling that has accrued over

:44:04.:44:08.

the many years. -- row back. We couldn't trust people to do things

:44:09.:44:11.

and everything had to be established in wrieteding. I think Michael Gove

:44:12.:44:15.

have made moves in the right direction by giving more

:44:16.:44:17.

independence to schools. But actually the coalition for a

:44:18.:44:21.

Liberal-Conservative organisation, which ought to be more liberalising,

:44:22.:44:27.

has been frightened about getting rid of CRB checks and databases

:44:28.:44:33.

without which nobody is trust to do anything, so amongst not only

:44:34.:44:37.

teachers but social workers and public servants, the compulsion to -

:44:38.:44:45.

write it down and have forms to fill in about somebody's rediness before

:44:46.:44:50.

you hand them on to a preschoof school to primary school, has driven

:44:51.:44:55.

many good early years workers away from the profession. I think Michael

:44:56.:45:03.

Gove has been trying to work in that direction but there is still a lot

:45:04.:45:07.

of paper work going on in the early years. We must become, as a nation,

:45:08.:45:12.

less reliant on having everything written down and on a day tie base

:45:13.:45:17.

and less willing to let people trust each other and form an understanding

:45:18.:45:21.

of a child's needs and use their common sense rather than have having

:45:22.:45:24.

tab lighted and everything to pass a set of regulations.

:45:25.:45:32.

On form-filling and when the Conservatives came in last time,

:45:33.:45:39.

they introduced form-filling in hospices. A dedicated nurse, a very

:45:40.:45:45.

good friend of our, who dedicated nine/ten years of her life looking

:45:46.:45:50.

after patients that will not be there much longer was told, if you

:45:51.:45:56.

don't fill that paperwork out. You have lost your job. Andy Burnham was

:45:57.:46:00.

Health Secretary under Labour, what do you make - not perhaps that

:46:01.:46:07.

point, the education point and the general principle of filling in

:46:08.:46:11.

forms. It happens at the BBC? I will not say there wasn't frustrations

:46:12.:46:15.

when we were in Government. The big point I make, I recognise the

:46:16.:46:18.

disillusionment you are speaking of. My brother is a secondary school

:46:19.:46:24.

teacher here in Warrington. An excellent school Birchwood High

:46:25.:46:31.

School, he feels disill Lewesed he has seen affects of the Michael Gove

:46:32.:46:35.

reforms on the ground. They are soul destroying. A free school arrived

:46:36.:46:42.

even though there were ur surplus places in Warrington. That

:46:43.:46:46.

destabilised - All school results have improved under Michael Gove's

:46:47.:46:49.

regime. Have you to acknowledge that children who were making poor

:46:50.:46:54.

headway are making better progress. So I think to ignore that, Andy,

:46:55.:46:59.

claim everything was good before mg got busy is to misrepresent the

:47:00.:47:05.

situation. Mitt My point was, I don't think they understand actually

:47:06.:47:08.

how good some of the state schools there are in places like Warrington

:47:09.:47:15.

and, I want to make this point, what we had here is a Secretary of State

:47:16.:47:20.

who came in, testing for phonics in primary schools. It was about the

:47:21.:47:25.

English Baccalaureate prescribing what subjects were acceptable and

:47:26.:47:30.

those were not. It has been an elitist agenda. Kids not taking the

:47:31.:47:33.

English Baccalaureate subjects have been pushed to one side. The Michael

:47:34.:47:37.

Gove agenda to me, for me, is about some children in some schools, not

:47:38.:47:40.

all children and all schools. That, for me, is why it's fundamentally

:47:41.:47:44.

flawed. Let us go back to the question. The question is about the

:47:45.:47:49.

burden on teaching. I go back to the questioner? Speaking on behalf of

:47:50.:47:53.

schools, I would say that I think Michael Gove has lost sight that the

:47:54.:47:59.

most important resources are -- a school has are the children in the

:48:00.:48:05.

school, enthusiastic teachers who aren't completely exhaust and the

:48:06.:48:08.

support of the families of the children in the school. It doesn't

:48:09.:48:13.

necessarily come to money, it comes down to people who have the energy

:48:14.:48:19.

to do the job properly. You think it's the bureaucracy that is zapping

:48:20.:48:22.

the energy? I have been a teacher for 10 years, now that I have my own

:48:23.:48:28.

family I feel that I can't be an effective parent and an effective

:48:29.:48:32.

full-time teacher. I can't see myself doing this at 60 or 65. The

:48:33.:48:38.

man in the pink shirt up there, then I will come to you. Do you think we

:48:39.:48:43.

should go back to educating children instead of forming committees and

:48:44.:48:49.

so-called experts and filling forms in, like it was in my day? When we

:48:50.:48:55.

went to school and we were educated. Now they are all filling forms in

:48:56.:49:04.

for hours on end? Dominic. I sit on the Education Committee in the House

:49:05.:49:07.

of Commons that scrutinises policy. The key thing here is that we know

:49:08.:49:15.

that on the international rankings that notwithstanding the money that

:49:16.:49:19.

went in under Labour, 15-year-olds plummeted on the rankses for

:49:20.:49:23.

numeracy literacy and science. The key is good teaching. Aunderstand

:49:24.:49:27.

the frustrations with red tape that has been expressed. We are trying to

:49:28.:49:32.

bring in reforms like performance-related play to

:49:33.:49:36.

encourage teachers and make them feel properly rewarded. Can I finish

:49:37.:49:42.

the point. Don't teach for the excellent wages. You should know

:49:43.:49:51.

that! -- teachers don't teach for the excellent wages. You should know

:49:52.:49:54.

that! It's not all about the money. We know that. The international

:49:55.:49:58.

evidence. We had the Head of the OECD education guy come, in the key

:49:59.:50:03.

is to great teaching is a better structure for the profession.

:50:04.:50:06.

Greater autonomy in schools. That is what the free school and the academy

:50:07.:50:10.

programme is about. He was firm about this, very rigorous

:50:11.:50:13.

inspections. All of these things we are trying to introduce to boost the

:50:14.:50:18.

standards of teaching. We equip our young people with the skills they

:50:19.:50:21.

need to make the best of themselves and the economy. You end up with 20

:50:22.:50:27.

hours teaching out of 60 hours working as a teach sner I accept the

:50:28.:50:31.

point you don't want unnecessary form-filling, you want greater atomy

:50:32.:50:34.

along with those inspections. That is the formula. The person in the

:50:35.:50:39.

blue shirt there. Then you, sir. I have been teaching for 20 years,

:50:40.:50:43.

politics must just come out of education. I don't -- heaven knows

:50:44.:50:49.

how many Education Secretaries have come and go. They want to promote

:50:50.:50:53.

their careers, they have to bring in a new idea each time. As teachers we

:50:54.:50:58.

have to deal with those ideas. You are cynical about Secretary of State

:50:59.:51:05.

for Education? Yes, just let teachers teach. That is all we want.

:51:06.:51:09.

APPLAUSE Let teachers teach. We just went to

:51:10.:51:12.

school and got taught? That is what I was about to say, your point

:51:13.:51:16.

there. People who have the gift for teaching do not necessarily have a

:51:17.:51:19.

gift for administration. People who have a gift for administration do

:51:20.:51:24.

not necessarily have a gift for teaching in the classroom. Why is it

:51:25.:51:28.

we expect people to have a skill for it teaching to have the skill for

:51:29.:51:31.

administration. Why can't we separate the functions. Some

:51:32.:51:33.

administration is necessary. Give that to people who like filling in

:51:34.:51:38.

forms and doing assessments, let the teachers who can teach, who have a

:51:39.:51:41.

gift for dealing with pupils in the classroom, let them teach and do

:51:42.:51:45.

what they are best at. You get the best results out of people when they

:51:46.:51:48.

can examiner countries their talents and skills to the maximum. A very

:51:49.:51:52.

brief point. I want to gate last question in. That is a really

:51:53.:51:57.

important point. There is a contradiction. Michael Gove is

:51:58.:52:00.

piling bureaucracy on some schools, but to free schools he is saying,

:52:01.:52:04.

can you employ unqualified teachers and opt-out of the national

:52:05.:52:07.

consider. That doesn't seem to be right to me. There is a

:52:08.:52:09.

contradiction of the heart of education. Are you U turning on the

:52:10.:52:22.

U-turn now? The point says we should idealise the past of our education

:52:23.:52:27.

isn't right. We shouldn't be saying things were better 20, 30, 4 o 0

:52:28.:52:32.

years ago, we should look at what other countries around the world are

:52:33.:52:35.

doing. If you look at the education system in European countries and

:52:36.:52:39.

south Korea, teaching people more languages than we teach in this

:52:40.:52:42.

country. Teaching - You said would you make a quick point. You have

:52:43.:52:49.

made it. Thank you very much. James Waring. Is it time the BBC reviewed

:52:50.:52:56.

its licence policy as suggested this week by Noel Noel Edmonds. Said the

:52:57.:53:00.

licence fee is no longer appropriate. He wants to buy the

:53:01.:53:03.

BBC. I don't know where he would get the money from that. Licence fee? I

:53:04.:53:10.

think with the move towards taking more of those services online, I

:53:11.:53:15.

think there is an inherent problem. I think inevitably over the

:53:16.:53:20.

long-term they will have to move to a subscription model. With the BBC

:53:21.:53:26.

you still have a public subsidy to fill that public... That sort of

:53:27.:53:29.

quality television and radio gap that otherwise you wouldn't get in

:53:30.:53:32.

the marketplace. I still think there is a need for that and an important

:53:33.:53:37.

case for protecting it. The BBC, like everyone else, has to move with

:53:38.:53:40.

the times. How quickly it will happen, how contentious it will be,

:53:41.:53:44.

I'm not sure. I think it's almost inevitable. You, sir, up there. I

:53:45.:53:51.

work abroad. I watch occasionally BBC World Service, there is Toye

:53:52.:53:57.

advertising on that season. -- advertising on that season. If the

:53:58.:54:02.

BBC isn't supposed to advertise, why is it advertising on its Worldsome

:54:03.:54:07.

service? It doesn't go to the licence payer, that is why. Oh. They

:54:08.:54:13.

are allowed to flog the product. It's the BBC? Yes it is. Should the

:54:14.:54:20.

licence fee end? We should move to the subscription model and a slimmed

:54:21.:54:24.

down version of the BBC. Keeping Question Time, obviously! Very

:54:25.:54:29.

necessary. Can you all applaud this.

:54:30.:54:34.

Plagues Thank you. Very significant point.

:54:35.:54:40.

When you look at things only the BBC can do and the stuff that the BBC

:54:41.:54:44.

does do, much of which is it could do commercially and in some cases

:54:45.:54:47.

does, the licence fee payer doesn't see much of that. You look at the

:54:48.:54:51.

things the BBC is doing which could be on commercial TV. There is no

:54:52.:54:56.

justification for the BBC providing them as a niche. I would think

:54:57.:55:00.

everybody would get much betteral value if we moved to a subscription

:55:01.:55:04.

model. People could download what they want to watch or watch what

:55:05.:55:08.

they want to watch, pay-as-you-go. People are are paying too much for

:55:09.:55:14.

the TV they consume. A big imowe potion on a family budget, you talk

:55:15.:55:19.

about people going to food banks, when you think of what they are

:55:20.:55:25.

forking out for BBC. Than watching Sky? If Sky can get away with what

:55:26.:55:30.

it charges, then I'm sure the BBC could. Another argument for

:55:31.:55:36.

subscription model. I'm disturbed to be agreeing with Dominic. There are

:55:37.:55:40.

many ways in which we should pay for what we consume and the whole issue

:55:41.:55:44.

of iPlayer, watching again, people having, and putting a subscription

:55:45.:55:48.

model would allow people to watch overseas when they can't watch

:55:49.:55:53.

stuff. There needs to be a safeguard of the core functions of public

:55:54.:55:59.

service broadcasting which a commercial broadcaster that will not

:56:00.:56:04.

do. There isn't a broadcaster who does the kind of things at the core

:56:05.:56:08.

in terms of what the BBC does in terms of its public broadcasting. Do

:56:09.:56:12.

you think everybody should have a television set should in the next

:56:13.:56:16.

period, when the charter comes up, be expelled to pay a sum of money to

:56:17.:56:22.

the BBC to keep it going or risk being tang to court It may come out

:56:23.:56:26.

of general taxation so everybody who consumes it, however we consume it,

:56:27.:56:31.

puts something in into it. 608 seconds left for your answers. To to

:56:32.:56:39.

Noel Edmonds I will say no deal! I think that we, I think the BBC is

:56:40.:56:44.

one of the jewels in the crown. I think the licence fee is the right

:56:45.:56:51.

way to pay for, it sharing the cost across the population. I would keep

:56:52.:56:54.

it and make sure the next charter protects the independence of the

:56:55.:56:58.

BBC. You have 30 seconds. Here is a note of unity to end the programme.

:56:59.:57:02.

I agree with what Danny just said. We are good in this country in

:57:03.:57:05.

running down the things that are best about, it the NHS, I would add

:57:06.:57:10.

the BBC. Renowned around the world. We would miss it terribly when it's

:57:11.:57:14.

gone. It's not about what you pay and get. They help to build the

:57:15.:57:18.

society where we are, where we can have debates like that and news that

:57:19.:57:22.

hasn't got a commercial slant on it. It's really, really important to our

:57:23.:57:27.

democracy. David, your job is safe with us! Your presence on the pan

:57:28.:57:32.

sell safe too. You did that in 30 seconds. We have to stop now, our

:57:33.:57:37.

hour is up. Apologies. Next week we will be in Brighton. We have Roman

:57:38.:57:48.

Abramovich -- Diane Abbott for Labour. The Chief Executive from

:57:49.:57:57.

Next and Mick Hucknell. Get with it! He is an old one, you should know.

:57:58.:58:05.

He is - I know! He will be here too. My pension will be coming to an end.

:58:06.:58:15.

OK. Mick Hucknell. The week after that we will be in Bristol. The two

:58:16.:58:22.

B's. Apply in the usual way, the website is on the scene. If you are

:58:23.:58:27.

listening to it on Five Live the debate goes on in Question Time

:58:28.:58:32.

Extra Time. Thank you to our panel, particularly those who picked me up

:58:33.:58:37.

on names I get wrong. Getting my own back. To all of you who came here to

:58:38.:58:44.

Warrington to take part. Until next Thursday on Question Time, from all

:58:45.:58:47.

of us here, good night.

:58:48.:58:51.

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