29/05/2014 Question Time


29/05/2014

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from the new Terminal 2 at Heathrow Airport. The panel includes David Willetts MP, Margaret Curran MP, Louise Bours and Piers Morgan.


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Transcript


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Tonight we are in the new Terminal Two at Heathrow Airport which opens

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next week. Welcome to Question Time. Good evening, to you at home, and to

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our audience here, to the panel, who don't know the questions unfill they

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hear them. David Willetts, Labour's Shadow Scottish Secretary, Margaret

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Curran, one of UKIP's newly-elected MEPs, Louise Bours, the journalist,

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television presenter, former editor of the Mirror, Piers Morgan and

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football's philosopher king, Joey Barton.

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Our first question from Kevin Robinson. Will UKIP cause another

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earth quake in the general election next year? Piers Morgan? It has been

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very interesting watching the rise of UKIP from America, where I have

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been the whole time it's been going on. Looking from the outside, my

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initial reaction was, like most people, a bunch of crackpots, this

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isn't going to last and slowly they gather momentum and I have tried to

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work out why this was happening. I think the answer is the British

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people are basically fed up with mediocrity. They look at the leaders

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of these three parties and they see three very similar sounding,

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similar-looking, white middle-class, middle-aged, quite posh gentlemen

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who seem to have no relation to the real world. You have Mr Boring, Mr

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Weird, Mr Useless and along comes Nigel Farage, who, for all his

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faults - and he's got faults - he seems like a regular guy. He is a

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guy who puts a pint on his head and you can kind of understand why a lot

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of people in this country - particularly working-class people -

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look at him and think he is making sense. He's been very clever, very

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smart as a politician. Two issues. Focus on two things. Europe and

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immigration. Two issues which most people have concerns about and they

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are right to have concerns about them. So I think that the rise of

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UKIP has been a very good thing for the democratic process in this

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country. I think it's shaken up Westminster. It's shaken up the main

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parties. But there comes a point where you have to say, if they are a

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protest vote, I'm in favour. The moment you start to take them

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seriously as a party that can govern, I think you have got massive

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problems. I tried to find out what else UKIP stood for other than get

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out of Europe and send all the foreigners home that we don't like.

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And I just did a quick check on Google and it was... Not a great

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information source. End gay marriage, ignore climate change and

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bring backhand guns. I thought, are we serious? Is this a serious party?

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So the question is can there be another UKIP earthquake in a real

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general election? A lot will depend on the three parties and how they

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respond to this threat, but UKIP - and I will be interested to hear

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what the lady to my left has to say - has to take itself more seriously

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and has to present policies coming on the momentum they built up which

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can resonate a lot more than just Europe and immigration. Briefly, if

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it does that, can it cause another earthquake? It's indisputable they

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have caused an earthquake. That is a good thing. They have shaken things

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up. Can they do it again? I don't know. Do they really want to stand

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for more than Europe and immigration? I don't believe the

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next election will be fought on that. It will be fought on the

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economy. Do they want to expand to that? It is an interesting situation

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we are in. I congratulate Nigel Farage for coming this far. I'm

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worried by what lies underneath UKIP and whether actually it sustains

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itself. We will come to UKIP in a moment. Margaret Curran? I think it

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can be explained by the deep resentment by what's going on in

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politics. They saw the economic crisis, they saw it caused by

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bankers, but they see bankers' bonuses going, they see the energy

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companies who keep saying that prices, their prices have got to go

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up and our prices have got to go up. But their profits go on

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unchallenged. I think people are deeply resentful of that and feel

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something has to be done. Following on from MPs' expenses and such like,

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people have a deep complaint about the political system and feel

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politicians are not talking enough about their lives and the things

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that matter to them. It is your fault that UKIP rose? Well, partly

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it's the whole political class. I do feel Labour is trying to understand

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and talk about the issues that affect people in this country, such

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as the energy crisis and the cost of living. Ed Miliband said that this

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has to be about changing the way that we do politics. OK. It hasn't

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happened yet because it didn't happen in the European elections.

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The question is, is there going to be another UKIP earthquake in under

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a year from now? Who knows. We are asking your view. You are a

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professional politician, you should know. It depends on the reasons why

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people voted UKIP. UKIP are deeply wrong. We need to take on some of

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the arguments of UKIP and that now needs to happen and we need to be

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assertive and explain why UKIP are wrong. It is about understanding and

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addressing the fundamental issues in people's lives and I think Labour

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does have a programme for that and I am confident that we can answer

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people's needs. We do need to make sure that we take on UKIP and expose

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some of them... What would be the one wrong thing you would take on?

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You say we have to expose where they are wrong. If you took one thing

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that you could take to the election? This presentation - you can solve

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all problems by those issues - that is the thing we need to take on. We

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need to live in a much more tolerant society. We need to look at what we

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have got in common with each other. That is how you address the deep

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malaise. You don't do it by setting people apart against each other. OK.

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We've got a lot of hands up. I would like to hear from Louise Bours.

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Thank you. Thank you to my two panelists for completely insulting

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and denigrating the 5.5 million people who did vote for UKIP last

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week. I did not so thing. Yes, you did. The fact is 5.5 million people

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did vote for UKIP. Obviously, what the establishment cannot understand

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in any way is the disconnect that the normal people of this country

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feel with the establishment. There is a total disconnect. They look at

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Westminster, they look at the green leather and they see nobody at all

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that represents them. Nobody who looks like them. Nobody who talks

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like them. And so they have looked to something else. And that is why

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UKIP won last Thursday. The fact is, people want to see people they

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recognise. We want to recognise what they feel. We want to know they are

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going through the things we go through on a regular basis. That is

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what the political class is not doing in this country. In fact, the

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political class and the establishment are - we are the

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symptom of how they have treated the people of this country. The

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misinformation like Piers has given out about banning gay marriage -

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what utter nonsense. Wait a minute. You have had your say. Nigel Farage

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said he wanted to legalise handguns. And the media in this country is

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incredible. What I say to you, ladies and gentlemen, over the

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summer, we will be putting together a domestic manifesto. This election

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has been fought on two things. It's a European election. So, of course,

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it's been fought on Europe. Of course it has. It's a European

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election. Over the summer, we will have a full manifesto of domestic

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policies that all of you will be able to scrutinise and so you

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should. That is right. Is it not true that Nigel Farage said he

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wanted to legalise handguns? That is not true. What he was talking about

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was the fact that it was a disgrace that the Olympic gun team had to go

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outside of this country to train and he said that was ludicrous. You are

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telling me that is not ludicrous? That wasn't what he said. It is what

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he said. It isn't. Let's leave guns. The man up there at the top left? In

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response to Piers' first comment that all the party leaders are

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similar. Is this not in response to our voting system because we have

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got to have someone who compromises between the 51% and the 49% whilst

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party leaders such as Farage, they are a leader for about 30%. I

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personally would look at moving abroad if Nigel Farage was our

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leader next year. You, over there? In my personal opinion, UKIP support

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will fall in the general election when people start to focus on issues

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which affect them. I live in Hammersmith and there's been a

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stunning victory there from Labour in the council election because they

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focussed on the local NHS. I think that when people read UKIP's last

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manifesto, where they wanted to privatise large parts of the NHS, as

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a doctor, I think the British public are going to reject that. They have

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done. That is misinformation. Again, this is misinformation that's

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perpetuated by the establishment. We have never said we want to privatise

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the NHS. What we have said is we would like to streamline the NHS,

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there's 48% of people who work for the NHS who aren't clinically

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trained. Why aren't those resources targeted at doctors and nurses? We

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don't need to talk about... The manifesto of 2010 is drivel,

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according to Nigel Farage. He said, "I didn't read it, it was drivel,

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486 pages of drivel." At least he is honest! It is the new manifesto we

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should be concentrating on. Joey Barton? The thing that keeps getting

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me about it is everyone is saying UKIP have done so well. From what

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little I know about it, I don't think they have done that well. Only

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34% of the people voted... Winning the election is not doing well? You

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have no MPs. You can't have done that well! We won a national

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election, Joey. Hang on. Do you think - I listened when you spoke -

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do you think that 34% of those eligible to vote cared enough about

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what they were voting for to make a drastic change? For me, they didn't.

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The others didn't mobilise their vote. We did. We won the election.

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You won some seats in Europe in the European Parliament that nobody

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really cares about. Well, they should care about it. They should

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care about it. If you make the same traction in a general election,

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people will sit up and take notice. The mainstream political parties are

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sitting up and taking notice. All you represent to me is the best of a

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bad bunch. So if I'm somewhere and there was four really ugly girls,

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I'm thinking she's not... Oh dear. That is all you are to us. I have to

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say the ignorance here - he fulfils the mission that footballers' brains

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are in their feet. He has proved that to me tonight. What an

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offensive thing to say. Maybe you do. You have to frame your argument

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a little... UKIP have not made the progress that everyone is

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professing... Winning the national election... 34% of those eligible to

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vote voted. They voted for UKIP. Nobody cares. It was a protest vote.

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That's all it was. I call it democracy. The Lib Dems are really

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bad at the minute, as everyone knows. I have got more chance of

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winning a general election than the Lib Dems, or Nick Clegg! And the

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other parties have failed to perform. UKIP come in, I will give

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you credit for that. That is what democracy is. Whilst I agree with

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the general premise of what Joey is saying, the figures are 9% of all

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eligible voters so it's less than what you are saying. It even

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highlights the fact that they don't have that much support in those

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elections. The 27% support of those who voted comes out at 9% of

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everybody who could have voted? Exactly. Is that significant? David

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Willetts? It is five million people voting in the democracy, that is

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significant. That is messages for all of the political parties about

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the kind of anxieties people have. They have anxieties about Europe

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heading in the wrong direction. They have anxieties about Europe

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heading in the wrong They have anxieties about migration. I think

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there's a deeper anxiety. They have an anxiety that our kids are not

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going to have the same quality of life that we have enjoyed and they

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expect politicians to do something to ensure our kids do have better

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lives than the previous generation. So I think that is the challenge for

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us. I don't think UKIP are going to be able to rise to that challenge.

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The clue was in what Nigel Farage said on election day. He said a vote

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for UKIP was a free hit. He meant it was an opportunity to get a message

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to the Government without any real consequences. Next year, people will

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be choosing a Government. They will be choosing who are the grown-ups

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who will do the long-term things that will ensure Britain keeps on

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growing, that our kids have a decent education, they have an opportunity

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to get on the housing ladder. On those issues, it will be a different

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election than the one we have just had. It is one I look forward to

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when people are choosing the Government of this country.

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that, having clearly touched a nerve in the European election? Because,

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if you look at their - they are touching a chord, an anxiety I

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understand. As a democrat, the fact that five million people vote is

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very significant. When you tilely look at what the policies are, they

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are completely pass Sewell. It's not the case this nation's problems are

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solved simply by leaving Europe. It's actually a kind of diversion

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tactic. We have real challenges of investing more in infrastructure and

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real challenges in ensuring people get high quality healthcare. Leaving

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Europe is not relevant for any of that. People want to ensure Europe

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doesn't head in the wrong direction. I think this Prime Minister has been

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very effective in that. We have vetoed a treaty, delivered the first

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cut in the European budget. They want governments that do serious

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things. What Nigel Farage was offering was a kind of escape from

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those real tasks that real governments have to give on with.

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Why are you offering an a referendum if it's an irrelevant issue? There

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are other things like health and education I doubt that anybody who

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voted UKIP last Thursday knew what UKIP would do, I'm not totally sure

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the UKIP MEPs agree on what they would do on health or It's a

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education. European Why are election. You offering a referendum?

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Why are you making a big deal about the referendum if you don't think

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it's the potential to solving Europe's problems? Europe is heading

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in the wrong direction. Too many powers are being taking in Brussels.

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Part of the frustration is that Europe are doing things that are

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better decided by national governments. Who will effectively

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negotiate and who will give you a choice in a referendum and the

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outcome of that negotiations? There is only one party that can credibly

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offer that at the next election, that is is the Conservatives. The

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person in the fourth row. The man there. Is it not very worrying that

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so many UKIP associates and MEPs and people who represent UKIP have come

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out as racist or making homophobic - You name me one MEP who has come out

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as being racist? The gay weather fiasco? He is a Conservative

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councillor. When he was a Conservative councillor spouting

:17:22.:17:24.

that nonsense nobody heard it. A couple of days ago someone

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associated with UKIP say with Downs children should have forced abortion

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- I have not read that. It was in the papers. What about Dave Small.

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Is he the Worcester councillor? He came out with some repellent and

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hideous comments. He was suspended and expelled within three days am we

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take notice of these things. We know that some of our procedures have

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been flawed. We are the first ones to admit that, hold our hands up.

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When the people speak out we throw them out. What about your leader who

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goes on radio who says he doesn't want to live next to Romanians. He

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didn't say that. You are twisting and spinning it like a media man. He

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did not say that at all. He did not say that at all. Exactly what he

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said. All right. You, sir. I voted UKIP for the first time. Why?

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Because what Louise was saying actually. Because, I think, for the

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last few years, all I've heard is talk, talk, talk, UKIP at last are

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talking on behalf of the British people. They are certainly talking

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to me. As long as the major parties keep on making these noises that

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they are listening to us, I'm going to - well, as I say, until they

:18:53.:18:57.

actually deliver, I want to vote UKIP at least they give us a voice

:18:58.:19:05.

and. How can I put this? It's... Ah... It just feels as though I'm

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being talked to like a naughty schoolboy. That will my vote is a

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protest vote and next year I will be a good boy and come back into the

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fold and vote Conservative. They don't understand it. By saying it it

:19:19.:19:25.

is a protest vote - A free hit. What does that mean? There was a poll

:19:26.:19:30.

conducted by ITV of people who voted UKIP at this election. 2% of those

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people said they would continue to vote UKIP in 2015. We know -

:19:35.:19:39.

honestly, I would not insult your intelligence. We know we have a long

:19:40.:19:44.

way to go. We know we are flawed. As a political party we are a baby. We

:19:45.:19:49.

have been in existence for 21 years our procedures and things - people

:19:50.:19:53.

get through the net. We are working really, really hard. When those kind

:19:54.:19:57.

of things, sir, come up that you mentioned before we kick them out. I

:19:58.:20:02.

also think those things are repellent. Think of where we have

:20:03.:20:06.

been. Where we are now. I tell you what, when our domestic manifesto is

:20:07.:20:09.

launched in September you can skriet nigh it and ask questions and make

:20:10.:20:16.

your own mind up in 2015. You, sir. As someone who values diversity and

:20:17.:20:21.

supports gay marriage and refuses tovillify people based on their

:20:22.:20:25.

nationality, religion or race, UKIP do not and will never speak for me.

:20:26.:20:36.

APPLAUSE The lady over here on the right.

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Yes. Yes. I thoroughly endorse what I've just heard. What I want to say,

:20:42.:20:45.

what I feel might answer this question about a landslide and what

:20:46.:20:49.

a party could do next year to prevent UKIP gaining any more

:20:50.:20:53.

momentum, is for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party to take a moral stand.

:20:54.:21:01.

Don't appease UKIP. Don't say that UKIP is not racist. UKIP does have,

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I would say - You think five million people are racist in this country? I

:21:09.:21:16.

would like to see this country... You think Labour hasn't taken UKIP

:21:17.:21:21.

on properly? I think Ed Miliband should speak out against it. We are

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a country who can take a moral stand. We are enriched by

:21:25.:21:29.

immigration. All of us here are enriched by immigration. I would

:21:30.:21:32.

like to see that stressed and emphasised. OK. Hold on a second.

:21:33.:21:40.

Anybody else here who is a UKIP supporter or voted UKIP, who I would

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like to hear from. A whole row there! Did you come together? No.

:21:47.:21:52.

The question I think is that the European election that we've just

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had is on proportional representation. We had effectively

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virtually 30% of the voting public voted for UKIP for particular

:22:02.:22:06.

reasons in a European election. We now have an ordinary by-election

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coming up in Newark, which is my hometown, and it will be very

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interesting to see whether that momentum can carry on into a

:22:15.:22:20.

conventional election on a first-past-the-post system. I think

:22:21.:22:26.

that's the real growing up of UKIP to extend its support, not only to

:22:27.:22:35.

cover other issues, but to enable its MPs to, candidates, to become

:22:36.:22:41.

successful. When, at the moment, the UKIP support is pretty well evenly

:22:42.:22:45.

spread throughout the country and including Wales and including

:22:46.:22:51.

Scotland. Of but it's not peaking in any particular place. There are

:22:52.:22:57.

hotspots. It will be interesting to see whether Newark is a hotspot. The

:22:58.:23:07.

younger are disill Lewesed. They have decided not to vote. They can't

:23:08.:23:10.

be bothered. They haven't voted for UKIP. Everyone who votes for UKIP

:23:11.:23:16.

are the older voter. Obviously, the fact that 34% turned out to the poll

:23:17.:23:23.

say there is is a young of disill Lewesed voters like myself who could

:23:24.:23:28.

never imagine voting for UKIP. Only reason you would vote for UKIP, in

:23:29.:23:32.

my opinion, is that you were really disill Lewesed with the mainstream

:23:33.:23:36.

parties. Two or three of you had your hands up as UKIP supporters.

:23:37.:23:40.

Yes, the gentleman with his hand up there. I don't - I'm a Labour

:23:41.:23:45.

supporter, but I voted for UKIP at the last election. I think the

:23:46.:23:51.

question is - why did the five million people vote for UKIP? Why

:23:52.:23:56.

did you as a Labour supporter? Because, I mean, this is real-life.

:23:57.:24:03.

I mean, what UKIP are talking about, it is happening on the street. It's

:24:04.:24:08.

not about racism. It's about the economy, accepting immigrants more

:24:09.:24:14.

than what they can afford. When people go on - to look for a job,

:24:15.:24:18.

and they can't find it, people get angry. It's real. People get

:24:19.:24:23.

frustrated because they can't get housing or their kids can't get to

:24:24.:24:27.

the next school. It's real-life. When - the answers like from David,

:24:28.:24:32.

saying that, OK, it's a protest. We know we will sort it out. You are

:24:33.:24:37.

forgetting, you are the ones who put us in that situation in the first

:24:38.:24:42.

place. You know. Vote for UKIP, it's a real vote. If you don't do

:24:43.:24:48.

something about it, I will vote for UKIP again. You say, we have to do

:24:49.:24:52.

something about it. I would say the coalition, in the four years we have

:24:53.:24:54.

been in Government, have been sorting out a mess. We have have

:24:55.:24:58.

been doing things about a lot of people's worries. If you want an

:24:59.:25:04.

effective voice in Europe, it stops keeping taking powers from us. That

:25:05.:25:06.

is what David Cameron has been delivering. I think at the next

:25:07.:25:10.

election - People don't believe that, do they? The reason UKIP is

:25:11.:25:15.

attracting support in significant numbers is precisely because they

:25:16.:25:18.

don't think David Cameron has been batting for this country in Europe.

:25:19.:25:22.

I think that is a perfectly valid charge to We will make. Come to that

:25:23.:25:26.

in a moment. Take the decisions we took on the economy. We took tough

:25:27.:25:31.

decisions in the economy in 2010 - Immigration is what he was talking

:25:32.:25:34.

about. He was talking about immigration, not the economy. We

:25:35.:25:37.

have reduced the total amount of migration. We have tightened the

:25:38.:25:40.

regime for migrants coming from outside Europe. We have tightened

:25:41.:25:44.

the rules on - you mentioned housing, sir, we tightened the rules

:25:45.:25:47.

on housing so that people who have been living in an area for a time do

:25:48.:25:52.

have priority about - over people who arrived. We understand these are

:25:53.:25:56.

the type of legitimate anxieties that people have. We are tackling

:25:57.:26:00.

them. Do you want to come back on that? The Tories policy on

:26:01.:26:05.

immigration doesn't work. Exactly. No because they cannot affect what

:26:06.:26:09.

is happening on Europe owe immigration. They are just attacking

:26:10.:26:16.

students and people outside the EU. You can tighten the rules. You are

:26:17.:26:23.

absolutely right. I have been polite. In this panel you have to

:26:24.:26:25.

talk over people. It's polite. In this panel you have to

:26:26.:26:27.

talk over people. the only way I will get to speak. The lady here

:26:28.:26:31.

made an important and direct point about Labour. I want to take the

:26:32.:26:34.

opportunity to address this. I think it's current in the debate. What Ed

:26:35.:26:38.

Miliband and Labour is saying is clear, you have to make a

:26:39.:26:42.

distinction between UKIP as a party and the things they say and do. You

:26:43.:26:45.

can't avoid responsibility in the way that you're trying to do tonight

:26:46.:26:49.

to dodge the bullets, in terms of some of the arguments, you are being

:26:50.:26:53.

irresponsible and not facing up to some of the arguments about some of

:26:54.:26:56.

the things that UKIP have said and do stand for and what they try and

:26:57.:27:01.

presents as politics. There is a distinction between that and why

:27:02.:27:04.

people voted for them. I don't absolutely write off those five

:27:05.:27:07.

million people that voted for UKIP. I will make, Labour will be out to

:27:08.:27:12.

win your votes back. Those of you that are remotely sympathetic to our

:27:13.:27:16.

view of the world. We would make a big distinction. For example, if

:27:17.:27:20.

there is a problem about housing, we know housing and access to housing

:27:21.:27:24.

caused tensions and difficulties in communitiesment we would say - don't

:27:25.:27:28.

blame the people applying for the houses. We need to tackle the supply

:27:29.:27:32.

of housing. I'm the daughter of an immigrant myself. I believe

:27:33.:27:36.

immigrants have made an he enormous and important contribution to this

:27:37.:27:39.

country. We have to say that loudly and clearly. I respect anybody that

:27:40.:27:44.

comes here with enterprise and creativity and puts in hard graph.

:27:45.:27:49.

We need to respond to that. We need to have a managed, fair and

:27:50.:27:53.

effective system of immigration. We need to have an honest debate about

:27:54.:27:58.

that. You can do that in a progressive way and the Labour way

:27:59.:28:01.

not the way the Tories have done it. We need to answer people's deep

:28:02.:28:05.

concerns about politics. On their issues we can provide answers to

:28:06.:28:11.

them. It is not stigmatising people and not getting into the (inaudible)

:28:12.:28:21.

of politics. You, sir. I'm young. I did vote UKIP. I'm passionately

:28:22.:28:24.

interested in politics. You voted UKIP? Yes. The reason I voted for

:28:25.:28:29.

UKIP wasn't for immigration. I believe the UK should be a sovereign

:28:30.:28:33.

nation which shouldn't have to be part of the European United States

:28:34.:28:38.

project. I don't feel personally European. If you look at everyone in

:28:39.:28:42.

the European Commission they talk about a European dream and European

:28:43.:28:46.

state and European armed forces. I don't want to be part of that. Joey

:28:47.:28:51.

Barton says young people don't vote. I think the reason people don't vote

:28:52.:28:54.

isn't because they are disill Lewesed they haven't been educated

:28:55.:29:00.

in politics. I'm one of only a very few number of people in my school

:29:01.:29:05.

who do politics. A lot of people did vote at the last general election

:29:06.:29:08.

and because of what Lib Dems were promising. The reason they don't

:29:09.:29:12.

vote is because they haven't been informed about politics at Do you

:29:13.:29:16.

all. Think there will be an earthquake in the general election?

:29:17.:29:22.

No, I don't. The first-past-the-post system you have absolutely no hope.

:29:23.:29:28.

Would you vote UKIP again in 11 months' time. I will try to vote to

:29:29.:29:30.

get Vince Cable out of Twickenham. can't remember what they decided

:29:31.:29:42.

about that. Let's go on to another question. You can, of course, join

:29:43.:29:50.

in this debate, as you well know, text, Twitter - #bbcqt, you can

:29:51.:29:57.

follow us @bbcquestiontime or you can go to the website -

:29:58.:30:01.

www.bbc.co.uk/questiontime. One day, we hope to get Twitter on to the red

:30:02.:30:06.

button. We will catch up. It will be great. You are scared of it. The

:30:07.:30:14.

comments people make. A question from Cliff Barrowman. Should full

:30:15.:30:19.

details of discussions between George Bush and Tony Blair in

:30:20.:30:22.

respect of the Iraq War be made public? This is the row that's been

:30:23.:30:30.

going on over the Chilcot report and the decision that was announced

:30:31.:30:35.

today in a letter that they have now reached an agreement on what can and

:30:36.:30:41.

can't be published. Who would like to start on this? Piers Morgan, you

:30:42.:30:47.

start on this. When I was editor of the Daily Mirror, we fought long and

:30:48.:30:51.

hard a campaign against the Iraq War. Nothing that has happened since

:30:52.:30:53.

has persuaded me War. Nothing that has happened since

:30:54.:30:56.

has persuaded that it was not a valid campaign. I had lots of

:30:57.:31:00.

dealings with Tony Blair at the time at Downing Street and was into his

:31:01.:31:05.

mind a little bit. I always believed - my brother was fighting for the

:31:06.:31:09.

British Army in Basra, so I had a vested interest on all sides of

:31:10.:31:13.

this. I always believed that basically Tony Blair had said to

:31:14.:31:16.

George Bush, "I'm in whatever happens." And I believe when he

:31:17.:31:21.

didn't get the second UN Resolution that he had already told George Bush

:31:22.:31:25.

and the Americans, "We are going in." That, to me, turned our

:31:26.:31:30.

involvement in the Iraq War into an illegal involvement in the Iraq War.

:31:31.:31:35.

And I think that what you are seeing now in terms of selective details of

:31:36.:31:39.

the conversations between the British Prime Minister and the

:31:40.:31:43.

American President is absolutely outrageous that we are not going to

:31:44.:31:48.

get all the details which can determine once and for all whether

:31:49.:31:54.

that agreement was made without authorisation from the British

:31:55.:31:56.

Parliament or not. There is only one we are not getting them - it's a bad

:31:57.:32:00.

reason - it is because the details that are contained in those

:32:01.:32:04.

conversations would be deeply embarrassing to Tony Blair, not so

:32:05.:32:09.

embarrassing to the Americans. To the British Prime Minister, Tony

:32:10.:32:12.

Blair, at the time, who led us into that war, a war that I believe was

:32:13.:32:16.

illegal, I think this is fundamentally important and we, as

:32:17.:32:20.

the British public, have a right to see the details of those

:32:21.:32:29.

conversations. He said last week it is not me who is holding it up, the

:32:30.:32:35.

sooner it's published the better. Somebody is holding it up. Tony

:32:36.:32:37.

Blair can say that with the safety of knowledge, I don't know - I don't

:32:38.:32:41.

think it is Tony Blair personally - maybe he has knowledge that we don't

:32:42.:32:44.

about what has been going on behind-the-scenes. I don't think

:32:45.:32:47.

there is anyone in this room, or anyone watching at home, who when

:32:48.:32:51.

they heard today that we are not going to get the details of those

:32:52.:32:54.

conversations didn't think this stinks. Yeah. I can't understand

:32:55.:32:58.

what the point of the Chilcot Inquiry is if we are not going to

:32:59.:33:04.

get the full truth. We have been involved in the Hillsborough sort of

:33:05.:33:08.

campaign that was going on a while back and is still ongoing. It smells

:33:09.:33:12.

a little bit of the same about what was going on. You can't give

:33:13.:33:18.

information but say we are are only going to give select information. It

:33:19.:33:23.

has to be the whole truth. I have read on the way over that it is over

:33:24.:33:27.

100 pages of direct conversations between Blair and Bush in the

:33:28.:33:31.

lead-up to us going into the war. I mean, how can we - what is the point

:33:32.:33:38.

of the inquiry if they don't have this information? I agree with Piers

:33:39.:33:45.

and Joey. You will be glad to know! We have a fundamental right as

:33:46.:33:51.

British people to know what is in those papers. Our men and women in

:33:52.:33:57.

the armed forces went out and fought and died because of those decisions.

:33:58.:34:03.

I think it highlights the disconnect between the politicians and the

:34:04.:34:07.

public. They forget that they work for us, actually. We have elected

:34:08.:34:12.

them into office and they are public servants, they are there on our

:34:13.:34:16.

behalf. We have a fundamental right to know why we were taken into what

:34:17.:34:22.

I believe was an illegal war. Even - I think it is quite insulting to say

:34:23.:34:28.

that we will only get the gist, we will only get excerpts... Margaret

:34:29.:34:37.

Curran, a Labour supporter and supporter of Tony Blair, why do you

:34:38.:34:42.

think it's not all being published? Why has Sir John Chilcot accepted

:34:43.:34:46.

that it won't all be published? I have not seen all the details of

:34:47.:34:50.

what has been said today. I saw the word "gist" being used and it won't

:34:51.:34:54.

be everything. That's my understanding of what's happened. I

:34:55.:34:58.

think the principle of disclosure is important and I think the principle

:34:59.:35:03.

- and that is what Chilcot is trying to do for the British people - and

:35:04.:35:08.

some of the previous inquiries have tried to do that. People are aware

:35:09.:35:12.

of what happened in Iraq and why we went to war and why leaderships and

:35:13.:35:17.

governments behaved the way they did. I assume that part of the

:35:18.:35:22.

explanation for not full disclosure is about secrecy and protocols of

:35:23.:35:28.

Government and secret shared security and that is part of the

:35:29.:35:32.

explanation. I would have to say that Tony Blair has been through

:35:33.:35:35.

full investigations through Chilcot and through some of the other

:35:36.:35:39.

inquiries. It is obviously still a deeply important issue to Britain

:35:40.:35:43.

and obviously of course to the Armed Services who served so significantly

:35:44.:35:48.

for us. I do understand the depth of feeling there is still about Iraq. I

:35:49.:35:53.

think we would need to look and see the security arguments as to why

:35:54.:35:56.

there is not full disclosure. It doesn't seem to be just security.

:35:57.:36:00.

There is a line in it about not attempting to explain George Bush's

:36:01.:36:04.

position, which is very curious. That is because the Americans have

:36:05.:36:08.

to explain their own position. What about explaining Tony Blair's

:36:09.:36:11.

position? I think this is what has to be explained. If they don't

:36:12.:36:17.

quote, if you don't quote from telephone conversations, you just

:36:18.:36:20.

give the gist of a telephone conversation, you know what that

:36:21.:36:23.

means, that is what people do in ordinary life, they give a gist of

:36:24.:36:26.

something and you don't get a real flavour of what the people were

:36:27.:36:33.

saying? You can't imply they are misleading or deceitful. There has

:36:34.:36:36.

to be a guarantee that it's the truth that is being exchanged. Do

:36:37.:36:42.

you not think the families of those soldiers or people who served in the

:36:43.:36:49.

war, who died, have the right to say why their children's lives were

:36:50.:36:53.

lost? Of course. We must have full disclosure. That is what Chilcot is

:36:54.:36:57.

about. You are going to get the reasons why... But... We can't - to

:36:58.:37:05.

protect Anglo American relations we can't say we can't, you know, we

:37:06.:37:08.

can't show that because it will damage this, it will be the secret.

:37:09.:37:13.

There's people who have lost their sons and daughters. They have the

:37:14.:37:17.

right to know why their lives were taken. You, Sir? Your party took us

:37:18.:37:24.

against the will of the people into an illegal war. We deserve to know.

:37:25.:37:27.

The people of the world deserve to know what happened. We don't deserve

:37:28.:37:35.

to get a gist. We deserve to know every single thing that went wrong

:37:36.:37:40.

and why we spent billions going into an illegal war and why it has

:37:41.:37:43.

worsened our national security. David Willetts? I think... Do you

:37:44.:37:50.

agree with him? I don't believe that the war was illegal, no. I do think

:37:51.:37:54.

there is all the key questions that people are asking about the war and

:37:55.:37:59.

Piers got, he put a fair and crucial question, which is what exactly was

:38:00.:38:03.

going on between Prime Minister Blair and President Bush and what

:38:04.:38:09.

assurances ordeals were being done. That is a crucial part of Chilcot.

:38:10.:38:15.

We do need to know that. That is absolutely essential. The Chilcot

:38:16.:38:19.

Inquiry is an independent inquiry, it is not - I believe that the

:38:20.:38:22.

people on that Chilcot Inquiry are going to try to get to the bottom of

:38:23.:38:27.

that. Hang on. On that point. Why has he then accepted the deal that

:38:28.:38:31.

he's been offered, simply giving the gist of conversations? I don't know

:38:32.:38:38.

what has been - the details of this arrangement. My understanding of

:38:39.:38:44.

what has been agreed between Chilcot and Prime Minister Blair is that

:38:45.:38:48.

there will be extracts so that there will be real words in quotation

:38:49.:38:53.

marks, but it will not be a transcript of everything that was

:38:54.:38:57.

said between Blair and Bush. I would assume that one of the issues is,

:38:58.:39:04.

what is going to happen in any future conversation between a

:39:05.:39:07.

British Prime Minister and an overseas... I absolutely agree - and

:39:08.:39:13.

you are correct in what you say about the parents of people who died

:39:14.:39:18.

needing to know everything about the circumstances of this war. The

:39:19.:39:21.

question is whether we can answer that question which is absolutely

:39:22.:39:27.

right and crucial whilst, at the same time, and a future American

:39:28.:39:31.

President able to say things to a British Prime Minister without his

:39:32.:39:34.

feeling that what I say in the next few years is going to appear in a

:39:35.:39:40.

transcript. If that, I assume that one of the issues is what kind of

:39:41.:39:45.

conversation - when our Prime Minister is talking to President

:39:46.:39:49.

Obama next week about what they are going to do in Nigeria to help with

:39:50.:39:53.

the security issue of the school kids that have been abducted in

:39:54.:39:56.

Nigeria - at what point can people say this is a conversation that we

:39:57.:40:00.

are having in confidence? Someone has to reach that judgment. It is a

:40:01.:40:04.

difficult judgment. I'm not privy to it. Clearly, Blair and Chilcot have

:40:05.:40:08.

tried to reach some sort of agreement. Hang on a second. When

:40:09.:40:15.

you have a war that is fought on an entirely false pretext that Saddam

:40:16.:40:18.

Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. I have never accused

:40:19.:40:22.

Tony Blair of lying. I think he probably did believe that Saddam had

:40:23.:40:25.

those weapons. I'm sure George Bush believed it, too. When it turned out

:40:26.:40:31.

that he did not have them, at that point this inquiry becomes

:40:32.:40:38.

incredibly important because the lives that Joey talked about - the

:40:39.:40:42.

soldiers, including my brother who went on the frontline and risked

:40:43.:40:47.

their lives, they are doing it for the wrong reasons. That is why this

:40:48.:40:52.

transcript could clear up whether Tony Blair, the British Prime

:40:53.:40:54.

Minister, gave assurances which he did not share with the British

:40:55.:40:58.

people or with the British Parliament. If you don't reveal

:40:59.:41:01.

them, everyone is going to assume that is what is on them. To pick you

:41:02.:41:06.

up on one point, David. You say it was an agreement made with Tony

:41:07.:41:10.

Blair. The letter Chilcot has written is written to the present

:41:11.:41:14.

Cabinet Secretary and... He has responsibility. He is not a party

:41:15.:41:19.

figure. He has responsibility for the crucial question which shouldn't

:41:20.:41:23.

be decided by any politician, which is are there any conversations that

:41:24.:41:27.

a British Prime Minister can have with the President of the US that

:41:28.:41:33.

the President of the US should be able to think the text is not going

:41:34.:41:37.

to be revealed? We shall never know the answer to that. The challenge is

:41:38.:41:43.

whether Chilcot can answer the crucial question - they are

:41:44.:41:46.

reasonable questions - whether he can answer those questions by he and

:41:47.:41:50.

his independent members of his inquiry looking at everything that

:41:51.:41:53.

was said between Bush and Blair in so far as we have any record of it

:41:54.:41:58.

anywhere in Whitehall. The thing that gets... This is what Jeremy

:41:59.:42:03.

Hayward has to decide. Whether that should be word-by-word publicly...

:42:04.:42:16.

Alright. You, Sir? I think Piers has hit the nail on the head. I think

:42:17.:42:24.

the reason we are not going to get the full conversations made public

:42:25.:42:28.

is one, we will find out the reasons we went to war. Two, I think this is

:42:29.:42:33.

the crucial thing, the public will realise that the national interest

:42:34.:42:37.

is not synonymous with the public interest. They will realise the

:42:38.:42:41.

national interest, whenever the establishment talks about the

:42:42.:42:44.

national interest, it is about protecting those people at the

:42:45.:42:47.

highest end of power in Whitehall. It is not about the public interest.

:42:48.:42:52.

How could anybody argue that fully publishing in full these

:42:53.:42:55.

conversations is not in the public interest? It shows one more thing.

:42:56.:43:01.

Why are we not talking about declassifying the conversations

:43:02.:43:05.

between the joint Joint Intelligence Committee over here and the Director

:43:06.:43:08.

of National Intelligence in the US? The intelligence was proved false,

:43:09.:43:12.

the dodgy dossier. The decision was taken at the top between two people

:43:13.:43:16.

who had a phone conversation where one probably said to the other, "I'm

:43:17.:43:23.

with you all the way, pal." You will get them, but it will just be 30

:43:24.:43:29.

years. The key thing is when Blair said after 9/11 we stand by the

:43:30.:43:32.

shoulders of our brothers or whatever the words were. I would

:43:33.:43:36.

like to see if it's Blair following through on that to say we would

:43:37.:43:41.

stand by you and the Americans using the premise of the 9/11 attacks to

:43:42.:43:46.

go and do what they want with the ridiculous foreign policy and

:43:47.:43:50.

whether Blair has tried to talk Bush out of it, whether Blair has agreed

:43:51.:43:54.

with him. I would like to see that. People have lost their lives. I want

:43:55.:43:57.

to know why they have lost their lives. The woman there on the left?

:43:58.:44:05.

disconnect that people feel with their parties. A quid pro quo that

:44:06.:44:10.

needs to happen if our phone calls and our emails and our communication

:44:11.:44:17.

is going to be tapped at will, surely that transparency should work

:44:18.:44:22.

both ways. We are in the age of Big Brother. That should work both ways.

:44:23.:44:26.

The second point I want to make. Joey Barton, I was with you some of

:44:27.:44:33.

the things he said, the analogy he may of four ugly girls will be on

:44:34.:44:37.

Twitter. Tomorrow you will be buried for. It I do apologise. I couldn't

:44:38.:44:42.

think of a better one. It's the first time I have ever done it. As

:44:43.:44:47.

Louise pointed out, my brains are in my face. J On your face it realise

:44:48.:44:53.

what had you said. I was nervous, I apologise. Let's go on to another

:44:54.:44:59.

question. Melissa Hughes. Should Heathrow Airport have a third

:45:00.:45:03.

runway. Here we are sitting in Heathrow. The great debate about

:45:04.:45:10.

whether there should be an extended runway, Gatwick runway, governments

:45:11.:45:15.

can't make up their minds. A report that won't be decided on until

:45:16.:45:20.

safely after the next general election. The Joey Barton without

:45:21.:45:23.

bringing in four girls, what is your view? I will never live that down,

:45:24.:45:30.

will I? No, you're not. I'm biased in this, in terms I live on the

:45:31.:45:36.

flight path. I'm dead against Heathrow having a third runway. And,

:45:37.:45:43.

I mean, am I right in thinking the last three parties at the general

:45:44.:45:47.

election had in their manifesto they were going to be against the third

:45:48.:45:51.

runway. From what little I've seen about it or what little I know about

:45:52.:45:58.

it, I've seen the Gatwick proposal, the Heathrow proposal. I travel on

:45:59.:46:03.

the Tube and seen Gatwick wanting to expand. As somebody who lives on the

:46:04.:46:08.

flight path I'm against it. Surmising most of the people who

:46:09.:46:11.

live around Heathrow don't want the extra traffic. Don't want the extra

:46:12.:46:17.

pollution. Somebody else should have it? Gatwick. They were talking about

:46:18.:46:27.

making Heathwick - People live around Heathrow and have houses -

:46:28.:46:33.

They seem to want it. Has anyone done research. People in this region

:46:34.:46:38.

are against it. I don't understand why the other parties on the

:46:39.:46:42.

manifesto were against it. What has changed? Have we got silent planes,

:46:43.:46:46.

less pollution. What has changed now? The woman up there, second row

:46:47.:46:51.

from the back. I think they should have a third runway, more economical

:46:52.:46:59.

than HS2, provide more jobs, bring in international jobs. It would be a

:47:00.:47:04.

lot better for the UK as a whole. You live one way or another close to

:47:05.:47:10.

Heathrow. Are you in favour of it? I'm in favour of Heathrow and

:47:11.:47:15.

Gatwick. Since Gatwick has been the nationalisation was taken off, I

:47:16.:47:19.

think Gatwick should be given a chance for being a global hub. They

:47:20.:47:25.

have restrictions until 2018. Their local council is in favour of it. I

:47:26.:47:30.

have done research as part of my management course. A lot of the

:47:31.:47:33.

debate was that Heathrow needs another runway because of the

:47:34.:47:37.

capacity is at maximum. Also I think Gatwick, they have a new CEO who has

:47:38.:47:45.

also been City of London Edinburgh he should be given a chance to give

:47:46.:47:51.

Gatwick another What is runway. UKIP's policy on it? There is a

:47:52.:47:57.

north/south divide on this one. I represent the north-west. When we

:47:58.:48:00.

had the lead story on the news about the Tube strikes. We really don't

:48:01.:48:05.

care if you have a Tube strike in London, it doesn't affect us in

:48:06.:48:08.

Manchester. It's like this with the Heathrow runway. The capacity point,

:48:09.:48:13.

sir, I was reading a little bit about that. As far as I can see,

:48:14.:48:17.

capacity, talk about capacity, that will create more demand. They had a

:48:18.:48:22.

really good example of that was in Frankfurt in 1984, the same

:48:23.:48:25.

problems. They built the third runway. Now, two years ago, they

:48:26.:48:30.

have now built a fourth runway. If you increase capacity, you will

:48:31.:48:36.

increase demand it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. The lady

:48:37.:48:40.

mentioned HS2 this is meant to be dispersed economic activity across

:48:41.:48:44.

the country. Heathrow, you get another runway, it will again suck

:48:45.:48:47.

everything into London. You know what, there are lots of things going

:48:48.:48:51.

on outside of the M25. I know it's really incredible. We have flushing

:48:52.:48:55.

toilets, we have running water in the north-west. Manchester is a

:48:56.:48:58.

great city. Liverpool is a great city. I would like to see, come on,

:48:59.:49:03.

let us see some of that economic activity diverted to other areas.

:49:04.:49:09.

Picking up on what Joey said. You know, I believe passionately, UKIP

:49:10.:49:13.

believe, that the people should have say. You will be affected, the

:49:14.:49:17.

people who live in this area. It's absolutely vital that you are

:49:18.:49:23.

consulted. You have to have that through a role referendum. The

:49:24.:49:26.

people affected in London don't want it, it shouldn't happen. Piers

:49:27.:49:35.

Morgan. Job creation where? It seems a classic British debate we are

:49:36.:49:40.

having. We are finding endless excuses not to do something which is

:49:41.:49:44.

absolutely overwhelmingly in our interest to do. Heathrow is the

:49:45.:49:47.

number one aviation brand that we have in this country. America, where

:49:48.:49:51.

I live most of the time, they love Heathrow. They don't talk about

:49:52.:49:56.

Gatwick. It doesn't have the same prestige, nothing against Gatwick.

:49:57.:49:59.

Heathrow is our blue ribboned airport, if you like. We need the

:50:00.:50:03.

capacity. We want to encourage the people who will be flooding from in

:50:04.:50:07.

from China, America, other countries, the Far East,

:50:08.:50:12.

predominantly. They will come from their own airports which are

:50:13.:50:15.

sensational. I have been to Shanghai, I have been to the Middle

:50:16.:50:19.

East, their airports are way ahead of most of us go. To Terminal 5 here

:50:20.:50:24.

at Heathrow, a fantastic terminal. Recently voted one of the best

:50:25.:50:28.

terminals in the world. I've used it all the time. Tremendous. Terminal 2

:50:29.:50:34.

about to open is modelled on Terminal 5, it looks fantastic. We

:50:35.:50:38.

should be proud of this. We should say - right, we have something

:50:39.:50:41.

special here. We are redeveloping Heathrow to become a genuinely

:50:42.:50:45.

world-class airport. Let us give them a third runway, let us become

:50:46.:50:51.

not just one of the best airports in the world, let's become THE best.

:50:52.:50:55.

Let us not be British about it and say, oh, it's noisy. Oh, the traffic

:50:56.:51:02.

will be bad. Oh, the pollution... Joey. Let's be the best! Piers, you

:51:03.:51:10.

know if you travel in Heathrow or in - I live under the path too. It will

:51:11.:51:14.

go over my head. I thought you lived in New York? At the moment I'm back

:51:15.:51:19.

here for reasons that are slightly beyond nigh my control. I have a

:51:20.:51:25.

house that be under the flight path. The 747 was the noisest hair

:51:26.:51:30.

aircraft in the world. It's one of the quietest. Right. You have to

:51:31.:51:33.

work out, the planes are getting quieter and quieter. Planes are

:51:34.:51:39.

getting quieter. Technology will mean they will continue to get

:51:40.:51:43.

quieter. Do not let noise, pollution and traffic stop us being a

:51:44.:51:48.

world-class airport that makes us - What about the rest of the country.

:51:49.:51:52.

Build another one in Manchester and Birmingham where ever else you want

:51:53.:51:56.

to build one. I don't see you begging to do it. They should let

:51:57.:52:03.

these people decide. I have to tell you how wonderful Glasgow is. Build

:52:04.:52:08.

one everywhere! The trick and difficulty in this is you have to

:52:09.:52:12.

balance out economic development. Piers made that argument strongly.

:52:13.:52:17.

You can't always throw things out because a certain group of people

:52:18.:52:20.

don't want them. As a country and across the globe have to take

:52:21.:52:24.

account of aviation emissions too. That is a challenge. I think it's

:52:25.:52:27.

right, believe it or not, what the Government have done through the

:52:28.:52:31.

Davis Commission, the proper way to come to this conclusion is to look

:52:32.:52:34.

at evidence-led policy. Where we look at the different arguments and

:52:35.:52:40.

you try to come to a conclusion that allows you, hopefully, to look at

:52:41.:52:47.

noise pollution and do something about CO2 emissions. I wouldn't be

:52:48.:52:51.

in a position where we are under cutting developments in the

:52:52.:52:58.

south-east. I do think point to point air travel and our airports

:52:59.:53:02.

across (inaudible) are important. David Willetts can you answer

:53:03.:53:16.

briefly. That's why I do think having Howard Davis looking through

:53:17.:53:19.

the options will assess these arguments we are hearing about

:53:20.:53:23.

noise, pollution or global hubs best to give him the objective analysis

:53:24.:53:27.

and look forward to his report. That is the only way we will ever resolve

:53:28.:53:31.

this. I live on the flight path. It's noisy. It is. Maybe they will

:53:32.:53:36.

get quieter. Anyone who lives on it will testify to it. You hear them

:53:37.:53:41.

going over. Is all right. The thing that strikes me is expanding Gatwick

:53:42.:53:46.

theory. You can - they were talking about putting 15 minutes or 20

:53:47.:53:49.

minutes high-speed link between the two. Gatwick essentially becoming

:53:50.:53:57.

Heathwick. London is our capital city. It should be the pride of the

:53:58.:54:01.

country. It should be should be the one we work hard to make the best. I

:54:02.:54:06.

will bow to Louise Bours, not everybody is obsessed whether

:54:07.:54:10.

Heathrow has its extra runway. I will take a question, if we can just

:54:11.:54:15.

do it in a few minutes, from Robert Benjamin, please. Yes. Are NHS

:54:16.:54:22.

funded slimming clubs really the best way towards a healthier nation?

:54:23.:54:28.

This is a kind of big story. You are a nutritionist, aren't you? Yes. The

:54:29.:54:34.

NHS will pay for you to go to Weight Watchers and lose weight. Are you in

:54:35.:54:37.

favour of that or not? I think it's a nice idea. I fear it's not

:54:38.:54:42.

preventative enough. Obesity is a very big problem. UK girls ranked -

:54:43.:54:59.

One for Joey Barton. The third heaviest girls, is that right? You

:55:00.:55:04.

are a health freak, are you in favour? Am I? I thought you were.

:55:05.:55:11.

I'm struggling to see how the NHS we should subsidise. I really am. I

:55:12.:55:16.

have written about the carrot-and-stick argument about

:55:17.:55:20.

introducing a "fat tax" people obviously are aware of the kind of

:55:21.:55:23.

things they are are ping in their mouth. What gets me, this may be

:55:24.:55:29.

where the Government can help. I know a lot of people (inaudible)

:55:30.:55:34.

they would really like to eat healthily, eat organic, it's very

:55:35.:55:39.

expensive. The alternative for them, they have to feed the kids. The

:55:40.:55:42.

stuff that is really cheap is the stuff that is pretty crap. If the

:55:43.:55:46.

Government could introduce something where maybe people on low income or

:55:47.:55:53.

benefits can receive a coupon or a token or something that allows them

:55:54.:55:59.

to get fresh vegetables, fresh fruit and veg and give the kids a healthy

:56:00.:56:05.

diet. I think that would be a good ?5 billion thing. Every single year

:56:06.:56:11.

the NHS spends on obesity-related illnesses. If someone is willing to

:56:12.:56:16.

make the effort to try, I believe Weight Watchers and Slimming World

:56:17.:56:21.

change to how you look and cook food. That has to be cheaper than

:56:22.:56:27.

spending ?5 billion on gastric bands and type two diabetes etc, etc. Why

:56:28.:56:32.

not look at the alternatives. You have to take it further. Why are so

:56:33.:56:36.

many girls in particular, the boys figures weren't much better, so

:56:37.:56:40.

obese in this country compared to other European countries? The answer

:56:41.:56:46.

is, we have become a sedatory country. My four kids love their

:56:47.:56:50.

sport. They play it all the time. It keeps their weight down. A lot of

:56:51.:56:54.

orchids don't get sports at schools. I have banged this drum for a long

:56:55.:56:58.

time. The one thing I agreed with Boris Johnson about, more than

:56:59.:57:02.

anything else, bringing 90 minutes or two hours of compulsory sport in

:57:03.:57:06.

school. They are on laptops and phones all day. Get them running and

:57:07.:57:14.

losing weight. David Willetts. We have an obesity problem. It's

:57:15.:57:18.

serious. I agree with Piers. We have added an extra hour of sport across

:57:19.:57:22.

all our schools because people do need more examiner countries. After

:57:23.:57:25.

the Olympics we are actually doing more sport. You are in favour of the

:57:26.:57:31.

NHS putting slimming clubs - No, I think - it is their decision for

:57:32.:57:36.

local individual authorities. I'm not convinced that is a good use. I

:57:37.:57:40.

think examiner countries is the right way. Whether that would be a

:57:41.:57:44.

long-term solution I don't know. We need to get people into looking at

:57:45.:57:48.

food. The world has changed. How you eat for the long-term, not just some

:57:49.:57:52.

of the short-term fads which some of the slimming clubs are guilty of. If

:57:53.:57:57.

I agree with Louise about this, if it helps you think about food, that

:57:58.:58:02.

is good. It's not just young people, maybe we could show by example about

:58:03.:58:07.

some of the way we behaviour - Did you point to me as a sign of fine

:58:08.:58:11.

physical fitness. What a perfect way to end the show! We all have to wise

:58:12.:58:19.

up and show by example. We are all guilty. You should look at what they

:58:20.:58:24.

did in Dubai? What did they do in Dubai They gave a gram of gold for

:58:25.:58:30.

every kilogram of weight lost. They spend ?400,000 - Something for the

:58:31.:58:33.

UKIP manifesto. Something for the manifesto. Once more, you can yo-yo

:58:34.:58:38.

you get a gram every other year. I will sign up for that one now. That

:58:39.:58:44.

is it. Next week Question Time will be in Wales. The following week we

:58:45.:58:51.

will be in King's Lynn. The website is there on our screen You can call

:58:52.:58:59.

the number: If you are listening on 5 Live the debate goes on on

:59:00.:59:05.

Question Time Extra Time. My thanks to my panel, all of you who came to

:59:06.:59:11.

take part in this programme, in this brand new Terminal 2. Until next

:59:12.:59:16.

time, from Question Time, good night.

:59:17.:59:23.

David Dimbleby presents topical debate from the new Terminal 2 at Heathrow Airport. On the panel are Conservative universities and science minister David Willetts MP, Labour's shadow Scottish secretary Margaret Curran MP, newly elected Ukip MEP Louise Bours, journalist and television presenter Piers Morgan and footballer Joey Barton.


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