Browse content similar to 05/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to you at home, to our audience here | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
and to our panel - who, as ever, don?t know the questions. | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
They are Conservative Secretary of State for Wales David Jones, | :00:24. | :00:25. | |
Labour?s Shadow Health Minister, Liz Kendall, | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
The Spectator and Daily Telegraph columnist Isabel Hardman, | :00:28. | :00:37. | |
star of the BBC?s documentary The Call Centre. | :00:38. | :01:03. | |
is from Helen Garner, please. Given that we have a national health | :01:04. | :01:08. | |
service, why are patients in Wales being subjected to a second-class | :01:09. | :01:10. | |
service compared to those in England? Is that true, David Jones? | :01:11. | :01:18. | |
It is not as good as it is in England. This is one of the major | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
complaint is that all Welsh politicians get. That they are | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
paying the same rate of income tax, they are paying the | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
politicians get. That they are paying the same rate of income same | :01:28. | :01:28. | |
rate of national insurance contributions as everybody else, and | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
yet, if they want to go for a hip replacement operation, to the | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
nearest hospital in England, they have a waiting time of 26 weeks. The | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
English patient in the bed next door has only been waiting for 18 weeks. | :01:41. | :01:47. | |
There is really no use for it. Is there an explanation? Yes, that the | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
Labour Party runs the National health service in Wales. | :01:52. | :02:06. | |
The NHS in Wales is supported at a better rate than the NHS in England | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
because of the Barnett formula. Nevertheless, we are seeing an | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
increasing decline in the Health Service in Wales. One of the most | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
important messages will be trying to deliver over the next 12 months is | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
if you want to see what the Labour Party would do to the Health Service | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
in England, just look at what is happening in Wales. I don't think | :02:28. | :02:34. | |
you would want that. Liz Kendall? Helen, I think there are examples | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
where people wait too long and where people have poor standard of care. | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
That happened in Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland. I | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
think any examples of poor care, where health suffers, has got to be | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
rigourously exposed, investigated and action taken. Is it a | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
second-class service compared with England? I don't believe that. There | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
will be statistics flying around but, for example, cancer survival | :03:02. | :03:07. | |
rates, in Wales they have improved faster than any other part of the | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
country. Your wait times for cancer treatment, you have more people | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
being seen within two months. In fact, this year, for the first time, | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
this week, for the first time in England, the English NHS missed a | :03:20. | :03:26. | |
cancer target. What I think is a problem is when this issue becomes a | :03:27. | :03:29. | |
political football. The Health Service is so important to us all, | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
all of our families. It was important to my grandma and grandpa, | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
they used the Health Service here. All health services need to improve. | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
What I'm worried about is the approach the Tories are taking by | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
trying to attack the Health Service in Wales without having a balanced | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
approach, because it is the English NHS that is going backwards. We have | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
have the worst A in aid decade in England. We have a delayed | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
discharges from hospital for very elderly people going up in England, | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
when they are coming down in Wales. So Wales is better than England? You | :04:07. | :04:13. | |
might not believe me on a thing because I am a politician, but an | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
independent organisation did the first-ever study into the four | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
nations, what was happening in the Health Service, they said in on of | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
them were massively ahead or behind. Sir Bruce Keogh, England's medical | :04:25. | :04:32. | |
director, writing to his Welsh counterpart, saying he is worried | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
about persistently high death rates, which warrant investigating in six | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
Welsh hospitals. Right or wrong to say that? Those hospitals are | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
rightly being looked into. Actually the Welsh Gutmann was the crew had | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
refused the inquiry. If they were concerned, they would listen to Sir | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
Bruce Keogh and instigated inquiry here. Do you think it is right for a | :05:01. | :05:12. | |
British prime is to come and say the border is the line between life and | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
death? I think he is highlighting the fact that the NHS in Wales is | :05:19. | :05:28. | |
not... Waiting times... Of course, spending is high in Wales, but we | :05:29. | :05:34. | |
have a higher demand. If you look at what the Labour government has done | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
over the last few years, they have prioritised spending on important | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
things like education and the economy. But spending on health has | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
not been prioritised. That is one of the reasons why we are where we are | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
today. One thing that disappointed me is that a Labour MP offered to | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
give evidence to the assembly committee looking into the Health | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
Service and they refused to listen. I can't understand why politicians | :06:00. | :06:02. | |
would refuse to listen to evidence, especially from someone from their | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
own party. I thought that was a disgrace. | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
I appreciate this is maybe something that affected your family in the | :06:10. | :06:19. | |
past. It is something that is affecting my | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
family right now. When you are the director of the National Ambulance | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
Service, would you think it was acceptable that, consistently, | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
ambulance waiting times and hand over times are not being met? In | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
some cases, people are waiting several hours in ambulances because | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
there are not the resources in hospitals because there is not the | :06:41. | :06:42. | |
spending in Welsh hospitals. Do you think that is acceptable? Indirect | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
answer to that, I don't think it is acceptable that people are stuck in | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
ambulances outside hospitals. I actually have the same problem, | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
often with the East Midlands and billing service. I think any of | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
those issues must be tackled head-on. -- Ambulance Service. We | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
should not accept poor standards of care anywhere in the NHS in this | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
country. I will speak from personal experience. The Welsh NHS is | :07:11. | :07:11. | |
appalling. My son waited seven hours in A in | :07:12. | :07:23. | |
Morriston with a broken arm. No care whatsoever. My mother and father | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
have recently been in Morriston Hospital. My mother with a hip | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
operation, she caught an infection. She wanted a nurse to lift her up, | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
no, I haven't been trained. It's pathetic. I think we must | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
differentiate between the people that work in the NHS, dedicated | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
people who give the care that people need and work very long hours, and | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
the people that run it and decide the political direction that it's | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
going to be taking. We have to be clear we are not attacking NHS staff | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
and the people that are delivering a fine service, in many cases. | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
When my father was in hospital, he was nearest by foreign nurses that I | :08:08. | :08:19. | |
could not conversed with. If we want jobs in Wales, and we need jobs in | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
Wales, why can we not train proper Welsh people to nurse? Why do nurses | :08:24. | :08:34. | |
have to go to university... The man here, in blue. Sunni the NHS in | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
Wales is appalling, I completely agree. I have been at the end of | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
what people would describe as being appalling. Ambulances were not | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
available when I broke my leg. They sent a paramedic car and then the | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
Welsh air ambulance, which costs money for them and then, when I get | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
into the air, they realise they cannot go to the hospital because | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
there are three hour waiting times being stuck outside in ambulances. | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
You were saying about targets not being met for the first year. The | :09:08. | :09:09. | |
Welsh NHS has being met for the first year. The | :09:10. | :09:11. | |
Welsh NHS not met targets since 2009. | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
You, madam? I don't think that we can generalise about the whole of | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
the NHS. The NHS covers from accident and emergency until | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
end-stage illness. Personally, I am retired from the NHS, five years | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
ago. I have had to call on the services of the NHS during those | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
five years. Two of them were, as, you would say, emergency. One was | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
for cancer treatment, where I could not hold my treatment. I was treated | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
within the time scales, professionally, etc. My second | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
engagement was with an injury in my eye. I am still been treated for | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
that, I could not fault it. Where there are pressures in the NHS are | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
things like trauma and orthopaedic, hip replacement, knee replacement. | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
Unfortunately, I have waited, I was put on the waiting list for a total | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
knee replacement on the 31st of May last year. I now have a date for | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
surgery, I go in on the 29th of this month and the 30th. You were in the | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
NHS? I was. What do you make of what the Prime Minister said about | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
between Wales and England, life and death? Is the NHS in England so much | :10:42. | :10:50. | |
better? I would not say so. With the big issues they have had in England, | :10:51. | :10:52. | |
with some of the horrors that have happened in England, I think we have | :10:53. | :11:05. | |
a good health service in Wales. The point that you make about hip and | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
knee replacements is absolutely bang on. Elective surgery is the biggest | :11:10. | :11:18. | |
problem. The waiting time in Wales is 189 days, in England, about 86 | :11:19. | :11:24. | |
days. That is not right. If you are paying your national insurance | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
contributions, your taxes, you are entitled to a conference or service, | :11:28. | :11:28. | |
wherever you live. I do feel for Liz. She's having to | :11:29. | :11:42. | |
defend decisions made by colleagues across the border, when she is an | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
English Labour MP. It is very difficult when you have a party that | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
may be taking a different direction to yours. That said, I can | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
understand why the Tories are going after Labour on this. Next year's | :11:55. | :11:58. | |
general election will be about the NHS. The Tories desperately want to | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
steal the crown of the party of the NHS from Labour, after Mid-Staffs, | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
after what is happening in Wales. But I don't think Labour's response | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
should be as offensive as it is. Our institutions always improve when | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
they are under Scuderia. The Royal family have a dreadful time in the | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
1990s, came out on top after scrutiny. The NHS will come out on | :12:20. | :12:27. | |
top after scrutiny. The areas that don't do well are often the areas | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
that don't have scrutiny. Geriatric care in England is terrible because | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
people do not scrutinise it. It is only that spotlight that will | :12:36. | :12:48. | |
improve services. I agree, I don't like the NHS being used as a | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
political football. You can't really compare Wales with England. It is a | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
much poorer country. Look at the demographics, we have a lot more | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
elderly people, high rates of diabetes, depression. We live in a | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
post-industrial society. Going back to what this gentleman said, it is | :13:06. | :13:08. | |
not just about the ambulances getting there. We need decent rail | :13:09. | :13:15. | |
links and roads. Where I am from, I am no defender of Welsh Labour, but | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
they are going to centralise everything to the hospital, so | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
people from Aberystwyth, Haverfordwest, they have to travel | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
such a long way. There is not a rail link. What are we doing about that? | :13:29. | :13:36. | |
I am not convinced of the premise in my neighbour's question, that the | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
Health Service in Wales is in anyway second-class. I have had the | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
misfortune to make use of the NHS, in various parts of North Wales | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
recently, and I can say that, on balance, the service is good. There | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
is anecdotal evidence, people tell tales of how long they have waited, | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
but the same sort of tales IKEA in England as well. I really do not -- | :14:00. | :14:06. | |
high here in England as well. I am really not convinced. I went to the | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
trouble of looking at the Nuffield report, mentioned by a panel | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
member, and there is no second-class service in Wales. | :14:13. | :14:19. | |
I agree with what the panel said, a lot of people working in the service | :14:20. | :14:25. | |
on the ground, nurses and doctors, they can in a difficult situation. | :14:26. | :14:33. | |
My father had a heart attack and it took 45 minutes for an ambulance to | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
get to him. I think that is a total disgrace. In terms of cardiac care, | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
this week there has been information about hospitals in South Wales, | :14:42. | :14:44. | |
where people are literally dying on waiting lists before they can get I | :14:45. | :14:50. | |
pass surgery. -- bypass surgery. For you it is a second class service. If | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
you have you it is a second class service. If | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
you a kidney problem you have to go to Bristol. Cardiac patients have to | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
go to Green Green from here. You have to travel to the care. We must | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
leave it there. We've had quarter of an hour on that topic. | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
You can join via text or Twitter. Last week when Joey Barton was on we | :15:17. | :15:31. | |
had the biggest traffic ever. 150,000 Tweets during the programme. | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
We, boy, did we trend! We move on to another question. From | :15:36. | :15:53. | |
Stephen Clear, please. This week the European Commission | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
criticised Britain's council taxes. Is this thaefd the EU is too big, | :15:57. | :16:06. | |
too bossy and too interfering? Nev Wilshire? | :16:07. | :16:08. | |
Yes. I think the vote was so strongly in | :16:09. | :16:25. | |
favour of UKIP, for the Prime Minister to stand up and say, we | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
need to put a strong voice into Europe, suggesting we do things in a | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
different way, I think the vote has got to be in or out. | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
It's as simple as that. You are not going to change Europe. Are we in or | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
out? I believe - I can remember when Tony Blair and John Major were vying | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
for the election and the Referendum Party that were gathering a lot of | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
votes were put to bed because they both agreed that whoever got in was | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
going to have a referendum. What was that? 18 years ago? Where is it? | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
Let's have a referendum! Get on with it! | :17:03. | :17:04. | |
APPLAUSE Do you think it is right for the | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
European Commission to say we ought to reform taxation of land and | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
property and other advice, or is that being bossy? I don't think they | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
should. What Europe needs to be focussing on is creating jobs and | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
growth. That's what people want. And one of | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
the things I found frustrating this week and I have probably a different | :17:29. | :17:33. | |
view, I am pro-Europe. It is really important for jobs in Wales and | :17:34. | :17:36. | |
across the country n my constituency a lot of jobs rest on trade with | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
Europe. I think all of the discussion we've heard this week is | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
about who will get the commission presidency. I don't think they | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
should be talking about jobs for the boys. They should be talking about | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
jobs for people in this country. Unless we get that growth in Europe, | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
it will not work for us and not work for people across that continent. | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
So, I don't think they should be telling us anything about council | :18:01. | :18:03. | |
tax. They should focus on what matters to people, which is getting | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
good jobs, growing the economy, so we can properly compete in the | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
world. APPLAUSE | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
So when the Prime Minister says Brussels has got too big, too bossy, | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
too interfering, for once you agree? Europe needs to change. I think it | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
is unambitious to say that we cannot, together, with other | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
countries, reform Europe. It is not just about our relationship with | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
Europe. Europe... APPLAUSE | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
Given the fact there's a thread of negativity about the EU I am not | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
sure this is the appropriate time for the EU to be introducing things | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
which frankly may not matter. If you put me in a ballot-box right now and | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
I had to vote whether we stayed in or out, I would be honest with you, | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
I do not know what to vote. I regard myself as being fairly well | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
informed. I would not know of any independent body. If somebody from | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
UKIP suggested I listen to what they say. I am not aware at the moment of | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
any independent body that could give me information from that side, | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
information from the other side and information from the mid-. So, I | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
would not -- from the middle. I so I would not know what to vote, yes or | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
no! This woman here. My understanding is | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
the reason the EU wanted to interfere was because our council | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
tax has not been, levels have not been revisited since 1991 and the | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
value of property has changed dramatically since then. And we are | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
paying disproportionately more council tax or lower value | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
properties than on higher value properties. Frankly I think that is | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
a good reason for having some kind of... | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
That is an extremely good point. If we are talking about Governments | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
interfering in the way council tax is run. People in this room will | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
know that people at home in England will know that council tax in Wales | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
was changed a few years ago. We have new bands in Wales. Everybody here | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
was affected by it, I think. When the Government saw the effect on | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
Wales, they decided not to do it in England. If we are talking about | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
interfering in council tax, it has happened here already. | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
APPLAUSE Yes, Sir. | :20:27. | :20:34. | |
The man in the green shirt. Yes. I am 82 years and I come to this at a | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
different angle after recent elections. I was delighted this | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
country thrashed the far right, the British National Front. What did | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
concern me and does concern me is the rise of the far right in Europe | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
as a whole, with increased anti-Semitism there, we had the | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
recent massacre in Belgium. I am concerned that we are getting an | :21:00. | :21:09. | |
increased... It is a good reason for me why I would vote out. This | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
country has shown, we don't want to know anything about Nazis and far | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
right. We are receptive to be friendly to everybody. You think | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
that rather than reform of the EU itself, which would change people's | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
view? I don't think it would. I think the far right has got too big | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
a hold now. Think of Le Pen and how she walked through France. I am | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
concerned because I am young enough to know what happened in the last | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
war. I don't want a repeat of that. We don't give up against the far | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
right. That is the point. We work together. | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
I think the rise of the far right makes this report which could have | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
been comal in its timing after the results serious. It shows the | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
European elite don't want to listen to the electorate. Only a few days | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
after the National Front had done so well in France, across Europe, | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
parties which were showing voters' discontent with the EU. They | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
published a report advising Governments what to do. Some advice | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
was sound and something which many have raised. A revaluation of | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
council tax bands is something we debate. However, that is an issue | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
for national Parliaments to discuss. It is not a job to tell us how to | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
run our economy. APPLAUSE | :22:31. | :22:37. | |
I just want to disagree with the last speaker, in the sense that not | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
being in the European Union did not protect us in 1939 from the rise of | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
the far right. We need tone gauge, take them on and make sure we are | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
working with people in Europe and across the world. | :22:52. | :23:01. | |
Liz said they talk about jobs for the boys rather thanes for | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
everybody. The important -- rather than jobs for everybody. The | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
important thing is the person who wants to take the job will cause | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
more problems for this country because he is such a Europhile. | :23:16. | :23:21. | |
If politicians are not listening to what happened two weeks ago with the | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
strong vote for populist parties across Europe, they do need to think | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
where they are coming from. The fact is that the European | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
Commission, making pronouncements about issues such as council tax, | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
only a few days after the people of Europe had shown they did not want | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
micromanagement of their economies, that they wanted the EU to do the | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
things that the EU was there for. Which is thicks which are -- things | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
which are done better at a super national level. We need to | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
renegotiate our position with Europe. Europe has become too | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
medalsome it is too far top-down. It is far too dictatorial. There are | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
things at a national level that are better done at a national level. | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
That is why we need to have that renegotiation and at the end of that | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
period, to lance the boil, because there is certainly a desire in this | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
country that there should be a referendum on whether or not we | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
remain part of the EU. Then we must hold that referendum so, that the | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
people of this country can have a say on their future in Europe. A | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
couple of things... Michael Gove said if there was no renegotiation, | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
if he was asked now if he would stay or go, he would leave. Would you? | :24:42. | :24:50. | |
The question doesn't arise. I am not going to be tempted down | :24:51. | :24:56. | |
that route. I actually believe there are tremendous benefits to being in | :24:57. | :25:02. | |
Europe - Princefully free trade. That I see no reason why the EU | :25:03. | :25:14. | |
should tell me about the shape of a banana. That is not what it is there | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
for. We need to get the best deal in that negotiation and put it to the | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
people of Europe. Who would you like to see as President of the | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
commission? It is clear David Cameron and your party don't want... | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
Who would you like to see? I would like to see someone. A woman! | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
I would like to see someone who recognises that the sentiment in | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
Europe is changing. I would like to see somebody... A | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
name please. Tony Blair? Well Tony Blair of course is at | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
great pains to deny he wants the job, so probably does. Of Why don't | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
you suggest a woman? I actually think that we need | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
something who is a -- somebody who is a 21st century politician. | :26:01. | :26:08. | |
Christine Lagarde. She is a very capable woman. It is a European | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
super state. We have four levels of Government. We used to have two. | :26:17. | :26:23. | |
You, Sir and then any other women? You, Sir? Unless I am missing | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
something I don't understand this UKIP. They have more now MEPs than | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
ever before. They want out of Europe. Is that like turkeys voting | :26:35. | :26:45. | |
for Christmas? And you Sir? What I don't understand | :26:46. | :26:50. | |
about pro-European people, why can't we trade with Europe? We will not | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
get the same deal if we are on the outside. I am sorry... | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
As far as I am concerned we are being told by Europe what to do. We | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
should be, I am quite proud living on an island 22 miles from one coast | :27:06. | :27:12. | |
to the other. Why can't we trade with each country individually? | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
Because we'll get penalties. We will not get the same deal and we will | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
not want to have companies investing in this Europe because they see we | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
are a gateway to a wider Europe. APPLAUSE | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
Am I right in saying... We would not get the same deal on regional policy | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
as well. People here know how much money goes... This is the Plaid | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
Cymru mantra, that overlooks the fact we are net contributors to | :27:40. | :27:44. | |
Europe. All we do is get our own money back. | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
Wales is a beneficialry from Europe and we should not forget that. ?55 | :27:50. | :27:57. | |
million is what we pay Europe every day. That comes from the taxpayers. | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
Now another question. I am so many here. I think I will try this one | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
from Chandra Dodgson, please. Given the allegations of corruption | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
in relation to the 2022 bid should Qatar be allowed to host the | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
competition? Isabel Hardman? I am not a massive | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
of football fan. I am more of a cricket girl. I think this is | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
another example of an international Governing body which is hugely | :28:33. | :28:41. | |
unaccountable. What are our options? The only option is to pull out of | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
the World Cup. I don't think we would want to do that on our own. | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
Why? I don't think we have enough might to bring the competition | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
falling down around us. We would have to act with other countries: If | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
we were able to do and that find others who wanted to do that, | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
perhaps that would rock FIFA enough to realise it is accountable. This | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
is going back to ins tugsss which think -- institutions which think | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
they cannot being scrutinised. looking forward to the World Cup. | :29:11. | :29:30. | |
It's no surprise, is it? Qatar getting the World Cup, and we find | :29:31. | :29:37. | |
that it is corrupt. At the time, when it was offered, a lot of people | :29:38. | :29:44. | |
said it was corrupt. Sepp Blatter and Michel Platini called us | :29:45. | :29:54. | |
whingeing poms, basically. So it's no surprise it was corrupt. I would | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
forward the suggestion that the Russian World Cup would have gone | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
the same way. When is that? The one before? What do you think, wearing a | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
football shirt? Personally, I think that FIFA must be absolutely loving | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
this. It's going to Russia, take country that is anti-gay, racist and | :30:13. | :30:19. | |
we are completely ignoring that and looking eight years in the future. | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
This season, is anything Petersburg signed a black, non-Russian player. | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
All of their fans rioted outside the stadium because that happened. You | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
cannot walk down the street and kiss somebody of the same sex as you, you | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
can get arrested. A World Cup has been given there? I think FIFA as | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
belonging that we are ignoring up and talking eight years in the | :30:43. | :30:44. | |
future. That is a massive mistake, to give it to a country like that. | :30:45. | :30:59. | |
I was thinking if we were part of some broader European Union, we | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
might have some cloud in pulling out. I'm not a huge football fan... | :31:05. | :31:18. | |
You don't have to say that, it's an issue of principle and bribery, | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
corruption. Looking from the outside, it seems that the process | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
that decided on Qatar stank to high heaven, as far as I could see. I'm | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
not aware what happened behind closed doors at FIFA. It seems to me | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
to be an organisation which is ripe for reform. Certainly, my only take | :31:35. | :31:43. | |
on it, to the front, as a Welsh Nationalist, is that I wish that | :31:44. | :31:52. | |
Wales had got into the World Cup. I think if those allegations are true, | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
it should definitely be completely rerun. I think it stinks. Money can | :31:57. | :32:06. | |
buy anything. It has just become overwhelmed with money, this sport. | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
I am an MP in Leicester, our fans love the game. To feel it can be | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
bought and sold, just like that, it seems awful. I think it is even | :32:18. | :32:26. | |
worse than that. Jim Murphy, our Shadow International Development | :32:27. | :32:28. | |
Secretary, he went to Qatar to see what was happening with the building | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
work. He found appalling conditions. This is happening with no | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
oversight, no control. What is FIFA erring about those people, and those | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
appalling conditions? This is a disgrace. What are our countries, | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
our clubs, doing? We got to sort this out. People are passionate. | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
People care more than they care about politics and politicians. They | :32:55. | :33:03. | |
feel passionately about football. We've got to make it work. I totally | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
agree with you. If corruption is found, it's got to go for a revote. | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
It's not just the FIFA setup the league of Wales matches have been | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
fixed, allegedly. There is a spot fixing in cricket. It is going | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
across sport. It's because there is so much money. That is the bottom | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
line, there is so much money invested. You, sir? As with the | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
European issue before, I don't think we should dismiss our negotiating | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
position. The Premier League is widely admired. The biggest sport, | :33:37. | :33:42. | |
followed all around the world. As with our European position, we can | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
negotiate and take a leadership point of view. We have to wait for | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
the legal decisions. But, you know what, FIFA is rotten to the core and | :33:50. | :33:56. | |
it's got it coming. Do you agree, FIFA rotten to the core? I think it | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
is an organisation in urgent need of reform. The fact is, it is | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
unaccountable. I understand there is a New York lawyer called John | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
Garcia, carrying out an inquiry into FIFA. Anybody who saw the | :34:10. | :34:16. | |
allegations in the Sunday Times would be saying, extend your inquiry | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
into what happened in Qatar. It was always very, very surprising that a | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
country which has got temperatures in the summer of 40 degrees gets a | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
summer competition. Frankly, suggestions you can air conditioned | :34:33. | :34:38. | |
football stadiums, ludicrous! FIFA is an organisation that appears, to | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
me, to become Pisi unaccountable. I hope that the glare of publicity | :34:42. | :34:57. | |
they have will lead to an investigation. One brief thing? Are | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
we strong enough to stand up to all this corruption? Match fixing, | :35:05. | :35:16. | |
European whatnot... Aren't Britain's strong enough? You're talking about | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
free trade, we can't deal with anybody. We are the best, or used to | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
be. Someone fight for us! Someone fight for us. What we wanted someone | :35:27. | :35:33. | |
to fight for us? A government strong enough. Stephen Jones. When | :35:34. | :35:41. | |
considering the Welsh Assembly's poor track record, is it wise they | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
may be offered further powers by Westminster? This goes to the very | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
heart of devolution. Scotland is being offered, if they vote no, huge | :35:50. | :35:57. | |
extra powers. This question is if the poor track record of the Welsh | :35:58. | :36:00. | |
Assembly means it is wise to offer future powers. We have the Wales | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
Bill going through Parliament at the moment. It will be giving the Welsh | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
Assembly the power to hold a referendum on whether or not they | :36:11. | :36:12. | |
should have income tax raising powers. I think that is a good | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
thing. I think it's a good thing for several reasons. First, it will | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
bring accountability into the Welsh Assembly for the first time. So far, | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
the assembly government has just been the recipient of money from | :36:27. | :36:29. | |
Westminster, which means it is in the wonderful position of | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
complaining about not getting enough money from Westminster and, at the | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
same time, not being accountable for the way the money is raised. For the | :36:37. | :36:40. | |
first time, the party standing in assembly elections will have to say | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
what they will do with the money that they raised directly from the | :36:45. | :36:50. | |
taxpayers. I think that is a sign of maturity in government. I actually | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
believe, also, it would be good for Wales. If they are wise, they will | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
call that referendum on the basis that they will reduce the basic rate | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
of tax. I think that, again, would show maturity on the part of the | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
Welsh Assembly. It would show that they were willing to take a punt at | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
making Wales a more competitive place. One of the big problems it | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
has had is that is not being competitive. That would give Wales a | :37:21. | :37:28. | |
little competitive edge. Stephen Jones's question started considering | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
the Welsh Assembly's poor track record? I don't agree it has had a | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
poor track record. Like any government you could do better. One | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
thing I am jealous of, that I would like in my constituency, Jobs Growth | :37:42. | :37:50. | |
Wales, it has been phenomenal and getting young people back to work. | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
80% of young people in private-sector jobs have gone on to | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
a proper job, and higher levels for graduates. We desperately need, I | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
desperately want something in England and I want it in my | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
constituency. So I don't agree it has got a poor track record. I have | :38:06. | :38:13. | |
always believed in, you know, giving power back as close to people as | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
possible. I think Labour is the party of devolution. We have | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
delivered it, we want to go further. I think it needs to go down further | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
as well, not just down to the different nation states, in England | :38:25. | :38:32. | |
to city regions, but right down to communities. Do you think they | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
should have tax-raising powers as well? We said there should be tax | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
varying powers. You didn't initially, you didn't want | :38:41. | :38:47. | |
devolution. We've been very clear. You been far from clear! We said | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
that they should be subject to a referendum on tax varying powers. I | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
don't want to see a race to the bottom, different countries | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
undercutting each other. I believe that devolution and further | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
devolution gives the best of both worlds. Do you agree with what the | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
Conservative government is offering to Wales? No. You seem a bit | :39:09. | :39:24. | |
doubtful. It was kind of nnn...yes. Ultimately, I think we are stronger | :39:25. | :39:33. | |
together. Our policy has been that by the strength of our | :39:34. | :39:34. | |
together. Our policy has been that by the common endeavour we achieve | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
more together than alone. That is what I think a strong Welsh | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
Assembly, backed up by security and strength, has been giving to the | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
United Kingdom. With Labour's record with health and education in Wales, | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
and the Coalition Government's record on the economy in England, | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
should Labour be trusted with any money whatsoever? I would have grave | :39:58. | :40:04. | |
concerns about the Welsh Assembly having tax-raising powers. Grave | :40:05. | :40:12. | |
concerns. Maybe it is a lack of confidence in the ability of the | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
people that are running it. I don't believe that we have first-rate | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
politicians running the Welsh Assembly. If I was running for | :40:20. | :40:27. | |
politics, I would want to be in Whitehall, not the Welsh Assembly. I | :40:28. | :40:30. | |
think most of the better MPs would be there. We now have four levels of | :40:31. | :40:36. | |
government. It's a fact, when I was growing up, you had Whitehall, you | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
had local councils. Now we have the Welsh Assembly and we have Europe. | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
It's no coincidence that our levels of taxation have gone up, up and up. | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
More waste. It is more waste, thank you for that. I believe United we | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
stand, divided we fall. It does concern me that Scotland looked like | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
they are heading for independence. I think the Commonwealth games being | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
held in Scotland, the Ryder Cup being held in Scotland, the 200th | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
anniversary of Bannockburn, they will play Braveheart on the | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
television the night before the vote and I think it is doomed. | :41:12. | :41:21. | |
I do find it slightly strange that Welsh Labour boast about the number | :41:22. | :41:27. | |
of jobs they have created for young people. Actually, a lot of those | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
jobs have gone to young people who could have got a better job | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
straightaway if they had better education. If you look at Welsh | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
education, Wales and England have the same potential, yet they have | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
vastly different public services. The amount of education that Nev has | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
to give some of his employees just to get them to work, it is shopping | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
they don't arrive at his call centre with better education from the | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
schools they are given. I think it is a public tragedy. -- shocking. | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
Again, that is an ardent for accountability. If the Welsh | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
government are having to raise taxes, directly from the people of | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
Wales, they are going to be answerable to the people of Wales | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
for the money is spent. If they are policing poor education results, | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
which they are, and declining education results, they will have to | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
explain themselves. The woman up there, at the back. Wales is seen as | :42:23. | :42:31. | |
the poor man in the UK. How, by raising taxes, if Wales has ability | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
to raise taxes in Wales, how are we going to lose that stigma of being | :42:37. | :42:44. | |
the poor man in the UK? You, sir. I am a GP, at the chalk face of the | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
Health Service in North Wales. People at the Health Service are | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
working extremely hard. I dread to have more devolution to Wales as it | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
stands. You already have full power, autonomous control of the health | :43:00. | :43:12. | |
economy. You spent 15 minutes slagging each other off. You want to | :43:13. | :43:22. | |
increase taxes to Wales. We have a major recruitment programme. We are | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
nearly in crisis bringing GPs to Wales. How are we going to bring | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
them if we are paying more tax? Nobody is proposing more tax. Lets | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
get real, we are not going to get lower taxes in Wales. The proposal | :43:38. | :43:46. | |
in the Wales Bill is that the assembly takes responsible as he | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
fought taxes, which are now going to London. It is not more tax, it is | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
who takes the tax. Out of that, the Welsh Assembly will then be able to | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
borrow some money and be able to improve the M4, the M5. You may | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
borrow the tax, but you have to pay it back. You will increase tax if | :44:08. | :44:14. | |
you get those powers. I think Labour are a bit iffy about this. Of | :44:15. | :44:22. | |
course, Labour will then be the government that has to take | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
responsibility for raising this tax and spending it, and for accounting | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
to you and the other people in Wales as to what they have done with it. I | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
think Labour feel quite comfortable with the situation they are in at | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
the moment, where they get large lumps of money from London and don't | :44:39. | :44:46. | |
have to account for it. One of the reasons that local Government in | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
England has been stocked with some less than impressive councillors, | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
not across the board, obviously, but in the same way you feel some of | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
your Assembly representatives are unimpressive s so much power was | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
taken away from them. By giving local representatives an opportunity | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
to choose what decisions are made in their area, that is how you | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
encourage people into Government. They will have a sense of power and | :45:12. | :45:18. | |
not just about bins. Having witnessed the Welsh Assembly's | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
ability to waste money, I think if they are given more, if they are | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
given any tax-raising powers, all it will do is cost every person in | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
Wales a lot more money. APPLAUSE | :45:32. | :45:33. | |
We leave it there. A question now from Rob Maximus, please. | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
Hello, everyone. Nice name. I like it too! | :45:39. | :45:48. | |
Get on with it! ? Is it right to exchange prisoners with the Taliban | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
or any terrorist group? Of course the American President has | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
exchanged a Sergeant for five Taliban members. | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
Isabel Hardman? Well, I think the mantra that you | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
don't leave a soldier behind is clearly very important in this | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
situation. I think also the problem is that there's a huge fear about | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
who's being sent back as part of this exchange. | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
And also about the circumstances in which this soldier who is being | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
brought back actually disappeared. There are allegations he deserted. | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
Do you mean he could have been left there? Not at all. The point | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
President Obama made was you don't leave a soldier behind even if he | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
has deserted. The point about whether his return should be | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
celebrated in his home State. He is still someone's son who should come | :46:43. | :46:45. | |
home. What do you think about the rightness of exchanging? I think it | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
is a hugely difficult choice, but then choices in foreign policy | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
always are very difficult. There's no, I don't want to say there's no | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
purity in foreign policy, but you cannot make these simple purist | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
decisions that you have to be able to negotiate with different groups. | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
Were the Republicans right to say he had broken an agreement, that the | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
White House would consult Congress before doing deals like this? I'll | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
be honest, I don't know enough about the situation. I will not pass | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
judgment. I'll have some humility here and say I don't know enough. | :47:17. | :47:25. | |
OK, Liz Kendall? I think overall, there are rightful concerns about | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
doing deals with terrorists because you don't know who you will be | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
letting free. I know that if I was in the soldier's family though, I | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
would be thanking the Lord and thanking President Obama that my | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
son, my husband, my brother, was coming home. I don't know the | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
background of who the people were who were returned, who danger r | :47:47. | :47:52. | |
threat they posed. We -- danger or threat they posed. On issues like | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
that, the security of your country and not putting your countrymen at | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
risk by terrorists would be the overwhelmling thing. I think | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
anything to get our boys and girls home. We would have had a lot of | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
intelligence from these people. We will put them back. Put them under | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
surveillance. Technology these days. We can see where they are going. Get | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
our boys and girls back while we can. | :48:20. | :48:22. | |
OK and you, Sir. I think that ultimately we'll have | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
to discuss issues with the Taliban, anyway. They will not go away. They | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
are going to, the Americans, as far as I understand, are already talking | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
to the Taliban. They have opened an embassy in Qatar. So, you can't just | :48:36. | :48:42. | |
make a decision like that and separate it out. | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
Every conflict is going to be resolved in discussion and dialogue, | :48:48. | :48:52. | |
otherwise you carry on killing each other. It is a difficult moral | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
issue. Liz says if it was my son, then I would certainly be concerned | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
to get him back. The problem is when you start to negotiate with | :49:03. | :49:05. | |
terrorists, frequently the result can be that you encourage further | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
terrorism. If the terrorist group know they can swam swap some of | :49:11. | :49:14. | |
their own members for an American or British soldier, that will encourage | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
them to kidnap another British or American soldier. So, it is an | :49:20. | :49:22. | |
extremely difficult, moral, decision. My own feeling is it | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
extremely dangerous to negotiate with terrorists. I would start the | :49:28. | :49:35. | |
whole consideration with, whose other life | :49:36. | :49:36. | |
whole consideration with, whose other am I imperilling as a re-- | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
imperilling as a result of that. The White House had broke an pledge and | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
shouldn't have done it? I think the White House should certainly have | :49:48. | :49:49. | |
further discussions. It is a hard decision. One | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
understands from, at a human level why one wants that prisoner | :49:56. | :50:02. | |
released. Maybe you should think again. | :50:03. | :50:11. | |
Hywel. Robin Cook said he wanted a moral fld policy. I think that was | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
attractive at the time. Rather unrealistic. That is how it proved | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
to be. The reality is that Government talks the other side the | :50:21. | :50:24. | |
other time. The Thatcher Government when they were swearing they were | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
not talking to the IRA of course were talking to them through back | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
channels. That is the reality of relations like that. I think in that | :50:34. | :50:37. | |
situation we must make sure that our hands are as clean as possible and I | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
am afraid that our intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan means that we | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
don't have very clean hands. APPLAUSE | :50:47. | :50:57. | |
I agree if it was my son I would want him home under any | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
circumstances. As a businessman, 5-1 is not a very good deal. I think it | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
is also worth remembering, maybe because I am old I remember these | :51:07. | :51:11. | |
things, but the first bill that President Obama passed when he first | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
got in was, he released lots of prisoners from Guantanamo Bay. | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
And there was nobody coming back this way. | :51:22. | :51:29. | |
Or America's way. He must like releasing prisoners. I don't | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
understand everything, but that one baffled me. | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
Say again. You say 5-1 for a soldier. Israel paid 1,000-1 for one | :51:41. | :51:47. | |
of theirs. They have the same attitude, we must | :51:48. | :51:51. | |
get our boys back. It is a very difficult answer. Your wider point, | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
that in the end it is always a political settlement that solves | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
these problems. It is never ultimately a military, it is a | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
political settlement that is required, is absolutely spot-on. | :52:04. | :52:10. | |
Alan Morgan, please. Should it be the telephone provider | :52:11. | :52:17. | |
that blocks unwanted calls from sales organisations? | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
This strikes home here! I will not come to you first. We will point out | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
that yours is the business that makes cold calls to people and they | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
have to go to their telephone and it is not somebody they want to speak | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
to. It is a recorded message from somebody or somebody they have never | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
heard of. David Jones, the do you think it would be good if it could | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
be banned and telephone providers could block these type of calls? I | :52:49. | :52:54. | |
have spent a bit of time this week telephone canvassing for a | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
by-election. I can say I know how Nev feels. Everybody is delighted to | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
get the telephone call. I think people can make their own decisions | :53:02. | :53:06. | |
if they wish to do so, then they can sign up to the Telephone Preference | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
Service. I know a lot of people actually like | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
having cold calls, believe it or not. Nev told me earlier on how | :53:16. | :53:22. | |
delighted they are. He would say, that wouldn't he! | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
What do you think? I obviously have a vested interest in this one. | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
Perhaps you don't want to answer it. It was quite a shock to find out | :53:34. | :53:42. | |
from David earlier on that, with the by-election how much telly | :53:43. | :53:46. | |
canvassing they do, when there are certain politicians trying to nobble | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
our industry totally. That was, I thought a little bit hypercritical. | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
But the industry employs over one million people. What do you want to | :53:55. | :53:59. | |
do? Do you want to put them out of work? Do you want to export more | :54:00. | :54:03. | |
jobs. Our factories have gone. Do you want to export these as well? | :54:04. | :54:12. | |
APPLAUSE Were you fined once for call cold | :54:13. | :54:22. | |
gssing? Yes -- call colding? Yes. Are you in favour of being called? | :54:23. | :54:28. | |
Personally I hate being cold called. I agree with David Jones, I have a | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
brain. I can tell people I am not interested. The problem I have is | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
the cleverness of the electronics of these companies, that I have had, I | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
don't know, 60/70 texts, phone calls and e-mails about a loan I have | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
applied for, that I have never applied for. I have to go through | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
and the number changes every time, so that every single timevy to reply | :54:53. | :54:59. | |
to the text -- time, I have to reply to the text to say, "Stop." It is | :55:00. | :55:06. | |
fine if I talk to one company and say, no thanks. But the fact it is | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
60-70 different numbers coming through, I have to keep blocking | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
them. It is the pizza leaflets through my door... This is not a | :55:18. | :55:23. | |
question about pizza leaflets. I wonder what the hit rate is. I am | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
amazed you manage to make a profit for this. It is not so bad. I have | :55:30. | :55:35. | |
never bought a pizza from one of those leaflets. This is telephone | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
calls! Nev Wilshire, what do you think? -- | :55:41. | :55:49. | |
Hywel Williams, what do you think? When they phone me up and say about | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
some windows, I say, put them in. What about a kitchen. We like toast | :55:55. | :55:59. | |
in our house. Life insurance, insured up to my ears. The calls | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
tail off because they know I am not a good mark. Actually, I have got | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
nothing against people trying to go out and sell, make money, run their | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
businesses, a lot of our economy is built on the back of good sales | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
people. I get annoyed. I would never of course shout and swear and leave | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
a message or anything like. That I am more irritated by US e-mail spam. | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
I can not bear that. They are of try... Does your telephone ring in | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
the house just as you are getting a cup of coffee and the dog is in the | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
way and you have not shaved yet... No, you probably don't shave every | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
morning, like I do! You are in the middle of do other | :56:44. | :56:49. | |
things. -- doing other things. The only | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
people who have my land line is my mum and my friend, Sam. They know | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
not to ring unless it is on a Sunday. If I don't know who it is on | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
my phone, I don't pick it up. Yes, you have spoken already. I want | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
to go to somebody who has not spoken. Yes, the woman over there on | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
the right. Isn't it true the TPS only works in the UK. It does not | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
screen out calls from other countries. You can ask this one and | :57:19. | :57:24. | |
then we can stop. To be honest, I don't know. | :57:25. | :57:28. | |
If the Government made it illegal for us to cold call in this country | :57:29. | :57:32. | |
then it would not be illegal from me to call you from South Africa or | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
inds ya. We have to -- India. We have to stop. | :57:38. | :57:39. | |
inds ya. We have to -- India. We have We'll be in King's Lynn next | :57:40. | :57:42. | |
week. We have Iain Duncan Smith for the Tories. We have Ian Hislop for | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
Private Eye. And the week after that, we are giving Away, by public | :57:47. | :57:53. | |
demand for a football match, between Japan and Greece. | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
Unmissable. But we are back the week after that, | :57:59. | :58:03. | |
in Wolverhampton. So, if you would like to take part in either | :58:04. | :58:10. | |
programme, apply on our website, the site is on the screen there or call | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
us: We will cold call you back and see | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
if you can come. If you are listening on 5 Live there is more on | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
Question Time Extra Time. My thanks to our panel. To all of you who came | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
here tonight to take part in this programme. Until next Thursday, from | :58:31. | :58:32. | |
all of us, good night. | :58:33. | :58:39. |