Browse content similar to 10/12/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome, whether you're watching or listening, | :00:00. | :00:16. | |
to our audience here, and to our panel. | :00:17. | :00:18. | |
Conservative Communities Secretary, promoted to the Cabinet | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
Labour's Caroline Flint, who chose to return to the backbenches | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
when Jeremy Corbyn won the leadership. | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
The Liberal Democrat former Business Secretary Vince Cable, | :00:30. | :00:31. | |
Parliamentary sketch writer and theatre critic | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
And Britain's best known classicist, Professor Mary Beard. | :00:37. | :00:57. | |
If you want to text or tweet our hashtag is BBCQT, | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
Text comments to 83981, and press the Red Button to see | :01:04. | :01:10. | |
Our first question from Polly Cassidy, please. Should Donald Trump | :01:11. | :01:26. | |
be banned from the UK? It is on everybody's lips, this question. | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
Quentin Letts. Certainly not. I want him here because I want to look at | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
that haircut. If I liked a flame near it, will it melts, or is it | :01:38. | :01:43. | |
alive underneath there? But there is as serious issue here, which is one | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
of inciting violence, perhaps. So you have to take this question | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
seriously. There has been a big petition that a lot of people have | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
signed saying we should never let him into this country on account of | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
what he said about not allowing Muslims into the United States. I | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
think we are overreacting, dignifying him too much. In some | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
ways what he said is not controversial because everybody in | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
Britain disagrees with it. But should one ban people on account of | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
not liking what they say? I have a suspicion that is not a particularly | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
British reaction. You say everybody but according to YouGov, a court of | :02:22. | :02:27. | |
the country agrees with him. Well, I don't know, but I am wary in this | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
country at least that there seems to be a competition... A quarter of | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
this country. I am not sure I believe that. It is not practical to | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
ban people on account of their religion. There is a competition | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
going on to say, I hate Donald Trump more than anybody else. There is a | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
strange competition going on to say, we are the most vehement about this. | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
Let's give it a break and not get so het up about what is plainly | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
unreasonable. Let's hear from the audience. I do find it quite strange | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
that we ban certain people from coming into the country. We banned | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
Mike Tyson at one point but then we let in the Chinese premier, the | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
premiere of a country with numerous human rights abuses, coming to the | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
country with no issues at all. What about Donald Trump? I think he is as | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
bad as anyone else, but he should be allowed in. On the gangway. I don't | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
think this should be taken lightly. This man could potentially become | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
the leader of one of the biggest countries in the world. So what he | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
says yields a lot of power. He said Muslims should have ID cards. What | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
is he going to say next? Should we wear armbands to be identified? This | :03:42. | :03:47. | |
is ridiculous. Mary Beard. I would quite like to get him here so we | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
could explain to him why he is wrong. Leaving him in America to say | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
all of this stuff is fine, but actually, he would be much better | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
off on a panel of Question Time actually being challenged about his | :04:02. | :04:08. | |
views. And in the end, rather than banning him, I was really more | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
worried by the idea that he was, until yesterday, still in his role | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
as business ambassador for Scotland. Happily, Nicola Sturgeon has got rid | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
of him. She said something like, he is no longer fit for the job. I | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
thought, when was he fit for the job? This isn't his first offence. | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
APPLAUSE Who was the person up there? I just | :04:32. | :04:42. | |
want to say that I agree with Quentin Letts. I think it is | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
contradictory, their reaction to the Donald Trump petition. During the | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
Charlie Hebdo attacks, we were all backing freedom of speech, and we | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
were supporting the magazine that was openly insulting Muslims. And | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
now we are having this big battle against the fact that he should not | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
have freedom of speech for insulting Muslims. It is quite a contrary | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
position. Social media always have battles of who looks best, but as | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
you can see, in these situations they have disagreed on freedom of | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
speech. Social media are not to be relied on for consistency? Yes, | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
consistency, they disagree. You can say that again! No one has an | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
automatic right to come to this country, it is for the Home | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
Secretary to decide. The question is, is he mostly an offensive idiot, | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
or is he an insight of hatred? Looking at some of the other things | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
he has had to say, about women, per example, he qualifies as the former. | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
But like Mary, I would like him to come here. If I had him with me, I | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
would take him around to meet some of my Muslim constituents and | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
friends, and introduce him to some of the pillars of our community. I | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
would like to introduce him to our police officers have them tell him | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
that they do not walk around with guns very often because they do not | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
need to. I would like to introduce him to some British people who could | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
perhaps teach him a bit of manners and politeness, and I think it would | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
do him a power of good to spend a bit of time in England. If we can do | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
that, we should let him in. And I would make him read a great deal of | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
Katie Hopkins, who he thinks is a respected British columnist. If he | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
wins the Republican nomination and the presidency, as a Cabinet | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
minister you will call him an offensive idiot? I think he is. If | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
you look at what he has said about Muslims and about women, | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
fortunately, I expect the good sense of the American electorate will give | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
him the result he deserves. You, in the front. I don't agree that he | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
should be banned. The petition was started before he made these recent | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
allegations, these recent comments, and I do feel that he has upset | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
everyone from Mexicans to women to disabled people. And it has only | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
gained momentum since he made the remarks about Muslims. I heard this | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
morning on Radio 5, the radio -- the lady from Aberdeen who initiated the | :07:26. | :07:28. | |
petition. It was going on before that. Obviously, the way things are | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
going within the world at the moment, it is a big talking point. | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
There are a couple of petitions. One is to try and get a debate in the | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
House of Commons. This is the one I am talking about. Theresa May has | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
banned hundreds of people for concerns about how they might | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
inflame violence in our streets and under hate speech laws that we have | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
in this country. To be honest, I would not mind if she added another | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
one to her list, and that would be Donald Trump. I think he is an | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
odious man who cannot open his mouth without offending someone. You made | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
the point about women, disabled people, people from Mexico. I do | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
think this is more than him being unreasonable. He has condemned an | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
entire religion by saying nobody who is Muslim should be allowed into the | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
United States of America. I think that is racist, and I would like to | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
say we don't want him within 1000 miles of the UK, we don't support | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
him and we will not allow someone who has such power to voice those | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
views come here and spread that here, too. | :08:40. | :08:40. | |
APPLAUSE Polly Cassidy, who asked the | :08:41. | :08:50. | |
question, what is your view? I don't think he should be banned, but I | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
just wish he would go away as well. I just find it really depressing | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
that he is being treated as entertainment when it is actually | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
quite a serious matter, and the media seems to be feeding into that | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
by treating him as a laughing stock. George W Bush was a laughing stock | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
and he got in several times, so... APPLAUSE | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
Does anyone agree with Donald Trump in what he said about banning | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
Muslims? I think we should be more concerned about Muslim extremists | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
being allowed to preach their terrorist views on the streets of | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
London and whatnot, you know. But that's not what he was saying, he | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
was saying we should ban all Muslims from the United States. But we have | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
allowed clerics like Abu Hamza to preach on the streets of London. We | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
allowed it to carry on. So you think he is wrong in how he has put it but | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
what he is getting at is right? I would not agree with him but I do | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
not think we should be banning him from the UK. Vince Cable. I would | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
not ban him, but for different reasons. He is appalling, ignorant, | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
ugly prejudice and all those things. But you have to confront these | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
arguments. When this programme at its finest hour was when Nick | :10:08. | :10:10. | |
Griffin of the BNP was in his finery. He was rising up the public | :10:11. | :10:18. | |
opinion polls. Many people said keep him off Question Time, but he was | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
allowed on and shown to be shallow, ignorant and prejudiced, and it | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
helped turn the people against him. One has to deal with these people | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
head-on. In terms of the comment that the gentleman the back maid, | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
who was moderately sympathetic to Donald Trump, in a way, the | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
Government has created its own problem. Theresa May and the Prime | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
Minister have brought in this concept of the nonviolent extremist. | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
One of the battles I fought at the end of the government, and I think | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
Greg was on my side on this, was that they were trying to stop | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
universities and other institutions having these people speak. I took a | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
very strong view, which Quentin Letts echoed a few minutes ago, that | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
we may detest people in their views but in this country you give people | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
the right to say them and you answer them back. So the whole idea of | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
banning people who are not violent but are extreme in their views is a | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
very dangerous thing to do. Do you agree? Is he right when he thinks | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
you were with him? What you need to recognise is that there are people | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
who may not commit violence themselves, but they do in sight it, | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
and they lead people to, especially in positions of influence, and we | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
have brought in laws to address that. One of the things that you can | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
do with that is to insist that if you have, for example, a speaker | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
with extreme views, to make sure they are challenged, so that you can | :11:47. | :11:48. | |
have the other side of the argument put. But if people have a record of | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
inciting violence and encouraging people to commit violence, then I | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
think they should be excluded from our country. Steve Horler. My farm | :11:59. | :12:07. | |
in Bath floods every year and it is getting more extreme. What actions | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
should the Government be taking to protect ourselves and the | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
environment? Have you been flooded recently? Not like the north-west, | :12:16. | :12:22. | |
but we flood every year. Caroline Flint. I must make a note to ask | :12:23. | :12:31. | |
Donald Trump on the programme. Perhaps he will come, if you will | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
let him in! There is a lot of discussion at the moment about | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
whether or not the storms we have seen, again, in our country are | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
linked to climate change. It is hard to pinpoint one weather events to | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
climate change, but the fact that we are having more frequent storms and | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
extreme weather, I think we can very much say that that is part of what | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
is happening, in terms of climate change around the world. Part of | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
what we have in this country is a recognition, and I am proud of the | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
fact that when we passed the climate change in 2008, there was cause | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
party support for that, with only five MPs voting against it. That was | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
as recognising as a country that we need to try and reduce the emissions | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
that contribute to climate change, and also to be a leader, like we | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
hopefully are in the negotiations in Paris. But the truth is, the problem | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
with these weather conditions is here now. And for your farm, and | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
others around the country, who keep being told the risk is based on one | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
in 100 years, when people have experienced two flood situations in | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
six years, is not good enough. We did see in the last government, in | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
the early part of the last government, money on flood defences | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
being cut. Last year, ?115 million was cut from it. We need to better | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
recognise this as a national-security issue because it | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
puts businesses out of work, families out of their homes, and it | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
does cause, in some cases, not just destruction to property but the loss | :14:02. | :14:03. | |
of lives. APPLAUSE | :14:04. | :14:11. | |
The man at the back? Would you agree it is time to redirect the foreign | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
aid budget towards the flood victims? Away from flood victims in | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
other parts of the world, to this country? Away from foreign aid and | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
redirect it, Charity starts at home. I think you need to do both. You | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
can't do both, you redirect it or you don't. We should be consistent | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
with our commitments to help people who are victims of flooding in other | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
countries, and we certainly should do that here as well. I was in | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
Cumbria yesterday, and can I just take this opportunity, David, to | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
express my admiration for the work that is being done there. When you | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
go and see it for yourself and see people who have been working flat | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
out, emergency services, the councils, the volunteers, it is an | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
inspiring site to see. One of the things you do notice when you go | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
round there, I went to Appleby, one of the towns that has been | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
particularly badly affected. The vicar took me into her church. She | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
pointed at the level that the water had reached in the last weekend, and | :15:16. | :15:22. | |
the previous level, and there was a huge difference. It was a record | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
rainfall. Four or five feet? It was waist height in the church and | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
clearly completely ruined. Taking his point, the government spends | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
half in this country what it spends on the international climate fund. | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
Why is that? That is what he was saying. We need to put the flood | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
defences that are needed. I will come to that. The defences that were | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
put in place had been put in place over recent years. They were what | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
was calculated would defend these towns and villages across the | :15:55. | :15:59. | |
country but the water flooded and beyond it, so Steve's question is | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
whether we should review the modelling and to see whether that is | :16:04. | :16:09. | |
adequate, and I think that we should do that. The Environment Secretary | :16:10. | :16:11. | |
as the Prime Minister has said we need to look at why these more | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
frequent occurrences of these catastrophic floods should be | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
happening. What about diverging money from the international climate | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
fund? To the UK? I think we need to do both. In the past I visited | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
angler desk, and -- Bangladesh, and if you look at the vulnerability of | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
a place like Bangladesh, the same kind of climatic events that affect | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
the rest of the world, in terms of saving people from destitution, that | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
is an appropriate use of our foreign aid, not least because, and we see | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
what happens when you have turbulence in places such as Syria, | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
you have populations displaced, and this affects the whole of the world, | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
so I think that for our own stability and security you need to | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
protect people from these catastrophic keep events. It's what | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
we should do to our fellow human beings anyway, but actually there is | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
a case for our own stability. Quentin Letts? The question from | :17:17. | :17:19. | |
Steve is what can be done to protect the population, I think, and there | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
are various things. We can stop building new houses on flood plains, | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
that would be a good thing. And sometimes these flood defences, | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
although they sound like great ideas, sometimes they can have the | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
effect of forcing the water down the other areas which in the past would | :17:37. | :17:39. | |
not have been flooded. So well-meaning schemes can sometimes | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
cause problems further downstream. But as far as protecting, we can | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
make sure that our emergency services have everything they need, | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
but you can't expect politicians to solve everything, or to stop the | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
flood waters. I am wary on the BBC of talking about climate change, | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
because I get into trouble about this recently and people seem to | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
think... Because you gave one side of the argument. I am regarded as | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
some sort of denial. I'm not, I don't quite believe everything I am | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
told by Kaymer change, I believe boffins, I don't believe lobbyists | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
I'm wary of blaming one particular flood on climate change. I don't | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
know the answer on that. But I would be wary of expecting the politicians | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
in Paris to be able to solve these problems. Sometimes these are | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
natural events, acts of God, if you like. But the enormous universe may | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
not be affected necessarily by man-made emissions, I don't know. | :18:39. | :18:45. | |
You, sir? Extreme flooding with climate change increase of about one | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
Celsius, predictions of two three Celsius, why is the government | :18:54. | :19:02. | |
cutting the support for renewables and the likelihood... | :19:03. | :19:05. | |
APPLAUSE In the likelihood that these extreme | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
weather events won't be every four or five years, they will be every | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
year? Why is it cutting the means to prevent it getting worse in the | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
future? Is that a strong argument for you, Vince Cable? Non-others are | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
climate change scientists. We can't attribute particular events to | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
climate change. Nonetheless the chief scientist of the Met Office | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
established a very clear link between what is happening on a | :19:34. | :19:38. | |
global level, you know, we have the 15 hottest years we've ever recorded | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
out of the last 16, the link between the warming of the world increasing | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
turbulence and extreme events. I think that is now reasonably well | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
established scientifically. I think your follow-up comments, why aren't | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
we moving more towards renewables, there has been over the last few | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
years a move in that direction, but the government over the last few | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
months has done some very retrograde things. It is unjust is cutting the | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
subsidies to solar power, for example, they now charged | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
value-added tax. It's actually penalising one of the emerging new | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
technologies. Why do you think they are doing that? I think the | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
Chancellor of the Exchequer is not terribly committed to this agenda. | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
To take another example, I helped set up the green investment bank, | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
which has now mobilised about ?10 billion of investment in new | :20:29. | :20:35. | |
renewable technologies, invoice disposable energy efficiency and | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
it's being shoved wholly into the private sector so it can no longer | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
perform a proper environmental function. This government is backing | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
away from an environmental agenda and all commitments to global | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
warming at a time we need it more than ever before. Vince, that is not | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
the case. APPLAUSE | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
If you look at the climate conference that is taking place in | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
Paris as we speak, there was a report to the conference that rated | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
and ranked all of the countries and their contribution. The UK was | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
second only to Denmark in the progress that we are making. We are | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
on track to meet our emissions reductions targets. Most of the | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
people aren't. We are on track to have 30% of our electricity coming | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
from renewables when I looked this morning it was 21% already, we will | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
get to 30% by 2020. We have got the green investment bank. Its very | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
successful. It's something we introduced and we will continue. I'm | :21:35. | :21:41. | |
proud we are going into the talks in Paris as leaders, not as followers. | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
Last time at Copenhagen, and I was at Copenhagen as the opposition | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
spokesman, in 2009, we were on the back foot because we didn't have, | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
and Vince will know this, an energy policy that could stand up to | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
scrutiny. We have turned that around in the last five years and we are | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
being recognised for that internationally. Briefly. The 2008 | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
climate change act set out our targets for emissions and that was | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
the Labour government. A huge amount of the renewable energy that has | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
been developed, the business plans and investment came in at the tail | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
end of the Labour government and they have been built and yours. We | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
are going backwards, not forwards. Businesses on solar and wind are | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
going out of business because you are moving the goalposts. You were | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
always good at targets, but the last Labour government while passing a | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
law to set the targets tried to get through... I want to hear from... | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
It's a partisan squabble. Its party politics, ludicrous. You have heard | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
what has been said. We need to stop building on the flood plain. My | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
local MP wants to build a car park on my land under to increase the | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
amount of cards on the roads, CO2 emissions. They will float away. | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
There will be nowhere for the water to go. How can Greg Clark as | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
planning Minister give planning permission to something like that? | :23:06. | :23:11. | |
We can't go into planning. Mary Beard. You have been a fantastic | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
example of how the political debate always goes into these really big | :23:16. | :23:23. | |
edgy things about climate change and renewables and emissions, and | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
clearly that's important. But what tends to get overlooked is some | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
other things you have just mentioned, that Quentin mentioned, | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
it's about basic issues about building on flood plains, but also | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
about how you manage watercourses, how you planned, how you see how the | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
water comes off the high ground into the low ground, and that is joined | :23:44. | :23:51. | |
up practical local thinking, and it's not very sexy but it is | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
actually one of the best first-line defences against what we are seeing | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
happening and what happened here. OK. | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
APPLAUSE We will move on, because I want to | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
get through a number of questions. I will take the woman at the top | :24:07. | :24:09. | |
right-hand side, and then the next question. Quickly, if you would. Mr | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
Clark, you said we are on target, we will meet our targets, but | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
regardless of whether we are or not, surely we should be pushing further. | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
You said Denmark are ahead of us, we should be trying to beat them, we | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
should always be pushing forward. APPLAUSE | :24:28. | :24:27. | |
Thank you for that. Next week we're in Slough, | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
then we're off over Christmas, Details on the screen | :24:32. | :24:33. | |
now for how to apply. A question from Justin Roberts. Is | :24:34. | :24:50. | |
David Cameron's negotiation with the European Council for real, or will | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
the British public ultimately be sold a pup? Is it for real, the | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
negotiation, or will we be sold a pup? The Prime Minister was quoted | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
as saying voters will think push Europe away, it's bringing me | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
problems and all the rest of it. It seems to come to not to a halt, but | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
the slowdown. Vince Cable, what's your view of what is going on at the | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
moment and how successful is David Cameron being with his | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
renegotiation? We don't know whether he is successful with the | :25:21. | :25:22. | |
renegotiation until they have happened. This is a problem of his | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
own creation. He didn't need to have the referendum, but wanted to have | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
it because of internal Conservative Party tensions. He dreamt of these | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
four conditions, three of which are very difficult to evaluate whether | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
you have succeeded or not, motherhood and apple pie, we are all | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
in favour of it. The one that the public are concerned about has to be | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
dealt with, is our public fears about immigration, and the test he | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
set, which is the limit migrants' access from Europe to in work | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
benefits, that is the bit that is now running into trouble, because in | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
order to operate it you need to discriminate between different | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
people within Europe. That goes totally contrary to the basic | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
principles of the single market, and remember, that was Mrs Thatcher who | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
negotiated that for us. He is now falling back on another mechanism, | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
that if we had serious problems with migration the government could | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
introduce an emergency stop, but that would have to happen with the | :26:28. | :26:31. | |
permission of the European Commission, which means that we | :26:32. | :26:34. | |
wouldn't have it under control. So he's created a problem which he | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
cannot now solve, and I suspect what will happen is the people in the | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
Conservative Party, who have set in these hurdles to jump, will say | :26:43. | :26:48. | |
sorry, Guy, you have disappointed us, and they will not have achieved | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
the objective. What he should be doing is what I think he believes | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
deep down and certainly George Osborne as well and making the case | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
for as being in the European Union. It's a difficult case to make at the | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
moment because of the problems the Union are having but the livelihood | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
of millions of people is now tied up with our trade and connections with | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
Europe. We have to fight the nationalism which is becoming | :27:12. | :27:14. | |
increasingly common and which the European Union has protected us | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
from. There is very basic arguments which he should now be making, not | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
engaging in this rather futile and I think ultimately pointless | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
diversionary exercise. Justin Roberts, who asked the question, do | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
you agree with what Vince Cable has said? Do you think there should be | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
or would be... We will trade with Europe even if we are not part of | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
Europe. We trade with the United States and we're not a state of the | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
union. All those millions of people employed in trade with Europe will | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
still probably employed. What's your view? I think we should pull the | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
ejector seat lever and get out as soon as possible. OK. | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
APPLAUSE The woman there. I want to say on | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
the subject of what Vince said about leaving the European Union, I think | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
the government needs to do something quickly about the monopoly of | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
Euroscepticism in the tabloid press, because it's completely ridiculous. | :28:12. | :28:13. | |
The entire tabloid press is against Europe. The UK is the most | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
uneducated country about the EU and its incredibly dangerous, the only | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
information we get about the EU with false and from newspapers that have | :28:24. | :28:28. | |
an agenda to make sales and not keep us in the best position in this | :28:29. | :28:29. | |
country. APPLAUSE | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
OK, who was shouting out and complaining here? Who said no, | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
rubbish? None of you will confess to it now! You weren't? Not me. What's | :28:38. | :28:46. | |
your view? I would like to know if David Cameron fails with these | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
negotiations, which is looking quite possible in terms of getting the | :28:50. | :28:54. | |
migrant benefits. Macro the four-year thing, yes. Whether he | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
will campaign to leave the EU? I want to know if that's possible. | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
Quentin Letts, what is the Daily Mail's view? It's | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
uncharacteristically inaccurate comment because I think the Daily | :29:08. | :29:14. | |
Mail is quite pro-Europe. You links EU to migration. Will you stop that | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
arsed tabloid newspapers running what they want to run. Six of the | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
main newspapers in this country were owned by News of the World guy, I | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
can't remember his name, it's undemocratic. The BBC is quite... | :29:28. | :29:35. | |
The BBC has broadcasting laws and manages to be a democratic entity | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
and its incredibly ridiculous the printing press in this country has | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
the ability to manipulate a country. I think the Son has predicted the | :29:43. | :29:48. | |
election victory of the last six governments, that's coincidence, we | :29:49. | :29:49. | |
need to do something about this. I'd like to pick up that point. I | :29:50. | :30:01. | |
don't know about Cameron, when he says anything I don't know who he's | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
talking to. Is he trying to satisfy his backbenchers, or is he trying to | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
worry me, I don't know. But what I do know, and we have seen it already | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
tonight, is that the pro-Europe lobby tends, sadly, I think, always | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
to say, just how damn awful it is going to be if we come out of Europe | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
because we will lose all these jobs, etc. What I want to be hearing is | :30:25. | :30:31. | |
somebody speaking a positive message about how damn good it is going to | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
be in Europe. We have things to change but there is a pan-European | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
project out there that we can actually be part of. And we can make | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
a difference in the world that we can't on our own. I want to hear it | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
for that. Not just a gloomy, terribly sad state of affairs that | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
will happen if we leave. Turn to the Cabinet minister on your right. Can | :30:57. | :31:03. | |
you satisfy Mary Beard? The key thing is that David Cameron is not | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
appealing to me or anyone else on this panel. He is not appealing to | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
you! The choice in the referendum will be for the British people to | :31:15. | :31:20. | |
decide. That will be the choice the British people have. Occasionally, | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
when I have been to Europe and have been talking to... You are in | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
Europe, I have to tell you. You are in Europe. | :31:29. | :31:28. | |
APPLAUSE Talking to ministers from other | :31:29. | :31:36. | |
countries, they have sometimes expressed concerns as to should we | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
be having this to go Sheshan. What I have said is this. In all of our | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
democracies across Europe, every four or five years you ask the | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
question, could things be better than they are now? That seems a | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
reasonable question. If it is a reasonable question for every | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
democracy, why not ask that of the European Union? That is what David | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
Cameron is doing with his the go Sheshan and that is a reasonable | :32:03. | :32:09. | |
approach to take. That is dreadfully naive. The whole question has huge | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
indications for the UK. There are in mind we have seen the SNP in | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
Scotland threatening a second referendum. I am not against | :32:23. | :32:33. | |
reforming the European Union. Most institutions are worth looking at to | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
be reformed from time to time. Like the Labour Party? I have been part | :32:38. | :32:43. | |
of many reforms in the Labour Party and I'm glad we did reform. On the | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
European Union, I am not against reform but this whole thing with | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
David Cameron is about trying to find a way to come up with something | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
so he can go to the Tory Eurosceptics and say, we have got | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
this, let's back being in the European Union. Let me finish. I | :32:59. | :33:04. | |
agree with Mary. Whatever the outcome of what David Cameron | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
achieves or does not achieve, I will be voting to stay in the European | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
Union because I think it is good for our country, good for jobs and | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
investment, good for our security, the fact that we can work with | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
police forces across the European Union to secure getting criminals | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
back here to face charges and send criminals to their countries as | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
well, it is good for the environment, because the European | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
Union, at the talks in Paris, as a bloc, can demonstrate what they can | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
achieve as the European Union but also influencing the rest of the | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
world. I think that is good. To say to Justin, about coming out, there | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
are consequences. Norway is not a member of the European Union but it | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
wants to trade, but it has to pay in order to do that, and it has to | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
abide by every single rule and regulation, but it doesn't have a | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
say. That would be the issue that would face asked if we weren't in | :33:59. | :34:00. | |
the European Union. APPLAUSE | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
As a politician, are you sympathetic, you just said David | :34:06. | :34:15. | |
Cameron was doing it to satisfy the sceptical backbenchers. Are you | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
sympathetic to him having to do that to keep his party together, or do | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
you think he should ignore them? I don't know how the Labour Party goes | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
about it. Isn't it reasonable? Ever since he has been leading the | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
Conservative Party he had a problem with Eurosceptics. He can't kick | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
them out. He has set up a false premise that somehow he can go | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
around and have all these meetings and sit with other EU Heads of State | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
meeting come up with something. It has taken five years at least for | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
him to come up with a list of demands. My view is that it is a | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
false premise, and we should celebrate what an advantage we have | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
being part of the European Union. David Cameron has this knee jerk | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
optimism, bouncing off to Europe like Tigger. And then he bounces | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
into some peevish Polish person or a ruminating Romanian, and they seek | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
-- say the opposite of what he once and then there is a schizophrenic | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
press conference where they will say, we will not give you anything | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
you want and David Cameron says, that is marvellous and he will give | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
me everything I want. There is a strange disconnect there. My feeling | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
about this, and I have not always been a steaming euro-sceptic, but I | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
think I am starting to simmer. I get the impression that the British | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
people are, as David Cameron said today, they are slightly getting fed | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
up with Europe. That is because the optimism, as Mary was saying, has | :35:45. | :35:48. | |
gone out of the European Union and people are now thinking, and I think | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
they may be right, that the sunny uplands may be on the leaves side. | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
My feeling is, let's cut the Gordian knot and get out. Up at the back. | :35:59. | :36:06. | |
Perhaps the woman in White. I am not a woman. Don't worry, I am not | :36:07. | :36:14. | |
offended. I can see you in close-up now. Given the crisis that has | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
broken out in Europe, why is David Cameron is so keen to try to shove | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
these negotiations through? Surely, given what is happening in France... | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
What would you have him do? He has to have the referendum. But we don't | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
even know when yet, do we? Why does it need to happen now? What would | :36:38. | :36:44. | |
you like him to do? Not have a referendum? He can have a | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
referendum, but if he wants to have this renegotiation, it does not seem | :36:48. | :36:55. | |
genuine at this point. And the woman there, if you are a woman. I am a | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
woman. One of the main reasons for creating the European Union in the | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
first place was to prevent a world war happening again. We have got | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
horrendous atrocities from Isil, the potential of nuclear warfare on the | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
horizon. Surely it is better to renegotiate as part of a bigger | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
body, to renegotiate these things and use the technology to pass | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
between the countries to solve potential problems for our futures. | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
APPLAUSE Let's move on to a question from | :37:25. | :37:34. | |
Phillip Cameron, please. Do the panel think Jeremy Corbyn has been | :37:35. | :37:42. | |
fairly treated by the media? We were talking about the media over the | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
European issue a moment ago. Do you think Corbyn gets fair treatment in | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
the press? I think the media have shown him in action. I was in the | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
House of Commons for the vote on Syria. And he made a speech at the | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
beginning of it, which was quoted extensively on the news. And it was, | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
I thought, a poor argument for the case. I think when people have | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
looked at the policy positions that he has taken, very extreme, a real | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
danger, it seems to me, to the country, that has been reported on. | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
When he has said, for example, when asked after the Paris attacks, he | :38:26. | :38:31. | |
was asked whether it would be appropriate for an officer to shoot | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
to kill a terrorist in those circumstances, he had to hesitate | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
before being able to answer in the affirmative. These things have come | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
across, and they need to come across because this man is the leader of | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
Her Majesty 's opposition, who wants to be our Prime Minister. I think | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
this is being communicated to people. | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
APPLAUSE What is your view? The fact that he | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
hesitates before he answers shows he is considering all options first. | :39:01. | :39:01. | |
APPLAUSE Mary Beard. I think he is having a | :39:02. | :39:15. | |
pretty rough time and I think he is behaving with a considerable degree | :39:16. | :39:25. | |
of dignity, given that. You look through the papers and you think, | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
just for example on the problem about whether he will go to the stop | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
the War Coalition party, the poor man is going to be hung if he does | :39:34. | :39:39. | |
and hung if he doesn't. Who is going to hang him if he doesn't? Is he | :39:40. | :39:45. | |
going to sing national anthem? If the poor guy sings it, he gets, look | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
at this, he's a Republican, what a hypocrite. If he doesn't sing it | :39:52. | :39:56. | |
they say, look, and he hasn't even got the decency to respect our boys | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
and sing the national anthem like he should. I think that quite a lot, | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
not everything, quite a lot of what Corbyn says I find I more or less | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
agree with, and I rather like his different style of leadership. I | :40:11. | :40:13. | |
like hearing arguments, not sound bites. And if the Labour Party is | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
going through at the moment a rough time, and I'm sure it is rough to be | :40:20. | :40:23. | |
in their, I think it might actually all be to the good. And he might be | :40:24. | :40:28. | |
changing the party in a way that would make it easier for people like | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
me to vote for them. APPLAUSE | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
I said at the beginning, Caroline, that you left the front bench for | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
the backbenchers when he was elected. What is your view about the | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
way he is defected, and your view about the stop the war dinner | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
tomorrow? Let me start with the question about the media first. I | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
think some of the stuff has been pretty trivialised. Some of the | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
early stuff about watching him at the commemorative service and the | :41:04. | :41:06. | |
national anthem and what have you, even at the Cenotaph, comments made | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
as well which I think were pretty unfair. That sort of coverage is not | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
exclusive to Jeremy. Lots of politicians and Labour leaders have | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
had to deal with that. I have been in the party 36 years so I have seen | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
a lot of that over the years. I do think it is a big step up of a job | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
from being a backbencher, where you can do your own thing, to being the | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
leader of the Labour Party. One of the things that Jeremy has, | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
undoubtedly, he won an election with a huge mandate. But also part of the | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
reason why he won that election was that he had a certain authenticity | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
that came across during the process, that people liked over and above the | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
other leadership candidates. I don't think he should be packaged or | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
modelled to get rid of that, but what he does need is to make sure | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
the team around him recognise that he needs support to be able to do | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
his job. In some cases when it has come to the media, they haven't | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
helped him. But it is a big job and he has four years to grow into that | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
job, just like when David Cameron started as leader of the Tories. Why | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
did you leave the front bench then and make clear you did not approve | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
or agree with him? I left the front bench because I spent five years in | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
the Shadow Cabinet, before that I was a minister and I have the right | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
to say I want to take some time out. It was not they comment on his | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
policies? It is about me having some freedom to... So you support | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
everything he goes for? No, I don't. But as an MP of 18 years I wanted | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
time to talk about some of the issues, unfettered by being in the | :42:53. | :42:54. | |
Shadow Cabinet, and I have the right to choose to do that. | :42:55. | :42:55. | |
APPLAUSE I would like to come back to what | :42:56. | :43:04. | |
Greg Clarke said about the vote for bombing Syria. The Labour Party had | :43:05. | :43:12. | |
a free vote. It was in the press for days, will he or will he not allow | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
them to vote with their hearts on such an important issue. Did your | :43:16. | :43:23. | |
leader of that? No. Listen, I think there is, on matters of war and | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
peace like that, I think you should look to a party to have a view. | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
Hilary Benn gave a brilliant speech, but to have the leader of the party | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
saying one thing, the Shadow Foreign Secretary saying something else, | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
that may be consistent with having a free vote, but this is the | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
alternative government. What would they do if they were in government? | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
We need to know that. What you are supposed to represent the people. | :43:50. | :43:50. | |
APPLAUSE By having a free vote, you could | :43:51. | :43:59. | |
speak with your heart, speak for the poor souls who are going to die as a | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
result of it. Your party did not offer a free vote and that is so, so | :44:03. | :44:08. | |
wrong. Vincent cable, do you think a free vote was the right way to go? I | :44:09. | :44:15. | |
am sure it was. You don't think an opposition should have a consistent | :44:16. | :44:22. | |
view bastion Mark there are issues of constancy. Ireland when my party | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
came out against the Iraq war we discussed it at great length. -- I | :44:26. | :44:32. | |
remember. There is no obvious party ideology behind a choice of that | :44:33. | :44:36. | |
kind. If I had still been there, I would have voted for air strikes, | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
but to have had an open debate is commendable. If I could just go to | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
the issue of Jeremy Corbyn, the brutal politics is that he is rather | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
disastrous for the Labour Party's prospects. The fact that we don't | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
now have an effective opposition. My parties in the wilderness and the | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
Labour Party is talking to itself, and that is bad. The one good thing | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
about Jeremy Corbyn, and I think it is a positive thing that he or | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
someone else has to build, he is making an effort to engage with | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
millions of young people who have poor job prospects. We are producing | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
a generation of people who are highly educated but with little | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
prospect of good employment and secure employment, and who cannot | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
get into the housing market. The chances of buying a house until your | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
late 30s are very remote, or having rented accommodation that is the | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
affordable. We are producing, potentially, a highly alienated | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
younger generation. And he is making an attempt to engage them in | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
Democratic politics. That is commendable, and I think whoever | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
else is leading the opposition, from whatever party or combination of | :45:48. | :45:49. | |
parties, as to tap into that agenda. Who hasn't spoken yet? You there. | :45:50. | :46:01. | |
Caroline, you and the Labour Party need to get behind Jeremy Corbyn. He | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
is a genuine human being. You said that it was terrible that he | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
thought, he paused for a moment before thinking about killing | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
someone, that is a genuine human being. He cares about people, he | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
represents the people and has always works for us. We need to get behind | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
him and Caroline, you do too. You, in the road below. I think that he | :46:24. | :46:31. | |
is wonderful insomuch as he's generating so much political | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
discussion that wasn't happening before amongst so many people. | :46:35. | :46:40. | |
Quentin Letts? It's all very well saying Jeremy Corbyn is a genuine | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
human being, of course he is, but he's also a genuine human being who | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
during the 1980s was pretty probe the IRA, and I think that's a | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
problem. That's unfair. I don't think that is wrong, with respect. | :46:56. | :47:03. | |
APPLAUSE I personally am worried that he is | :47:04. | :47:10. | |
not more critical of people who seem to be our enemies, and I think | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
that's a problem for the Labour Party in a general election. It is | :47:14. | :47:18. | |
Bill Artur Pikk -- it is bizarre to be a journalist at Westminster at | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
the moment and Labour MPs almost run up to you to off Jeremy Corbyn. For | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
once, we are not making things up when we report that is division in | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
the Labour Parliamentary party and when Hilary Benn gave that striking | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
speech in the House of Commons, he turned to his own party, he was | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
addressing it to his own party and at the end of it there was | :47:42. | :47:44. | |
tremendous applause, I may have seen you clapping him vehemently, and | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
that applause, I think I'm right in interpreting, was anti-Corbyn. This | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
is a Parliamentary party at least, I think very much it was, actually, it | :47:53. | :48:00. | |
was pro-Hilary 's speech, which was anti-corporate. There seems to be a | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
lot of. Macro is this audience entirely supporting Jeremy Corbyn as | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
leader of the Labour Party? APPLAUSE | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
The Conservatives up my new may be as applauding just as loudly as | :48:17. | :48:23. | |
Labour members. You hear? The server you heard from the young lady at the | :48:24. | :48:30. | |
back needs to be taken notice of, -- the enthusiasm. What Labour | :48:31. | :48:32. | |
Parliamentary party seems to have forgotten is they have lost the last | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
election and if we are ever going to win another one we need a lot of | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
younger people voting Labour and that's what Jeremy Corbyn is | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
bringing to the table. Very briefly, Caroline. I'm all in favour of | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
having more young people joined the Labour Party, I joined at 17, but I | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
have to say to you as well in the last election we lost massively | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
amongst older voters and that the next election majority of voters are | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
going to be over the age of 55. So we do need young people, but we have | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
to recognise that in in 2020 we have to stop just talking to ourselves | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
which is what we have been doing for the last six months, and start | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
talking to the public about why they didn't support us and how we can | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
bring their support back. Jeremy has a responsibility to make sure as our | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
leader he reaches out beyond the Labour Party members to that group | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
of people as well. Before we close, can I hear from any Conservative | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
supporters in the audience who have a view? The question was if the | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
media had treated Jeremy Corbyn unfairly, or fairly. I think the | :49:35. | :49:41. | |
media has. I think when Jeremy Corbyn has done foolish things, the | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
press has reported his foolish things. And really, the only people | :49:45. | :49:51. | |
who think that Jeremy Corbyn has been treated unfairly, in an unfair | :49:52. | :49:57. | |
way by the media, are what I call the closet communists. SCATTERED | :49:58. | :50:06. | |
APPLAUSE . I want to take another question. | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
This is something we have had, a question that has underlain a lot of | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
our discussions over the last few months about the national Health | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
Service, from Leigh-Ann Clarke blaze, Leigh-Ann Clarke. Wires and | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
more being done by the government to support people suffering with mental | :50:23. | :50:26. | |
health conditions in the UK -- why isn't more being done. Everyone | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
knows the NHS is stretched financially, so the question is | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
whether they should take money from other parts of the NHS to spend on | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
mental health issues. Caroline Flint. We had a debate on mental | :50:42. | :50:48. | |
health issues this week, it's a massively important area for us to | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
understand, that if we don't spend more in this area then there will be | :50:53. | :50:55. | |
other costs that we will have to face as well, and for too long, I | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
was a public health minister in the last Labour government, and for a | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
long time we have had a treatment service in hospitals, but we haven't | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
had the sort of services in the community to prevent people becoming | :51:08. | :51:09. | |
ill and that includes resources for mental health as well. I have three | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
prisons in my constituency and I know that for a lot of offenders | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
they are suffering from mental health problems, addiction problems, | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
and problems in terms of literacy. So we really have to look, if we are | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
going to say there needs to be parity between mental health and | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
physical health, we have to find a way to make sure that is a reality | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
because at the moment services are being cut back, people who need | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
hands-on support are isolated on their own, and they cannot only be a | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
danger to themselves but such a good -- sadly, tragically, they can be a | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
danger to other people as well and that's not acceptable. The budget | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
put back money that had been taken out in real terms, Vince Cable, the | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
last budget? The problem is the lack of joined up government. We take one | :51:58. | :52:03. | |
example, the ASA, the modern word for the dole, a very high percentage | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
of people on the FA have mental health conditions. -- ESA. Although | :52:08. | :52:16. | |
their conditions are treatable, particularly with talking therapies, | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
they are not being directed into any treatment so they are out of work | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
and their mental health conditions are getting worse. Towards the end | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
of the Coalition Government, my boss was a kid -- key influence on this, | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
mental health was being elevated from its traditional status as the | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
Cinderella of the health service, and I was given a small pot of money | :52:36. | :52:43. | |
to bring adult education for helping people with mental health, this is | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
not just an NHS issue, it is as Caroline says about prisons, it's | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
about unemployment benefit, it's about schools, and thinking about | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
this problem in a joined up way, which is completely absent now. Mary | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
Beard. The simple answer about why it's neglected is that it's much | :53:01. | :53:04. | |
less visible to most people most of the time. There's no blood, or there | :53:05. | :53:12. | |
is not often blood involved. I think that makes it easy to shut your eyes | :53:13. | :53:18. | |
too. I think it is changing. I think it's changing in a way that I hope | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
will actually require a need and demand extra investment, because as | :53:25. | :53:29. | |
Caroline says, that investment will be repaid over and over again | :53:30. | :53:36. | |
economic Lee, even if you just do a brutal economic calculation, never | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
mind the cruelty and the unfairness to the individuals concerned, you | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
come out ahead if you look after mental health. Quentin Letts. | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
Regarding mental health, it is difficult not to feel humbled and | :53:50. | :53:55. | |
inadequate talking about it, especially if mercifully I have no | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
personal family experience of that. I do, however, have recent family | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
experience of the NHS on cancer care and that has been magnificent, and | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
the NHS, which is getting good amounts of money, long way that | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
last, is one of the things that gives is tremendous, as the country, | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
tremendous social peace and all I can say is I'm proud that is the | :54:18. | :54:24. | |
case. Greg Clark. Some of the most heart-rending constituency cases | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
that I have been working for have been when parents, often of young | :54:29. | :54:34. | |
people, have come to my surgery at their wits' end because they can't | :54:35. | :54:39. | |
get an appointment to have an assessment for a child or an | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
adolescent that has got mental health difficulties, and this goes | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
back all the time that I have been an MP. If they have broken a leg on | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
the rugby field or something, then they would go to a Andy and they | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
would be treated instantly, but I had cases of people where young | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
people were being kept waiting for six months for assessment, and | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
that's an eternity in the life of a young person. I think that is now | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
changing. There is a much greater recognition that we must be | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
absolutely as committed to help people promptly and effectively, if | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
they have a mental health condition, as they've gotten physical health | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
condition, but we still got further to go. It's a direction we must | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
continue to go down and to have this complete parity, so there isn't the | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
best digital stigma -- there is the stigma that has stopped people | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
talking about it and that is changing and I'm glad it is. To talk | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
about young people, whilst we need more money for mental health | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
services in general, we desperately need more money for young people | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
with mental health problems, because the damage it can cause is life | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
changing and some people, when they don't receive the care they need, it | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
will never be the same. Thank you very much. | :55:57. | :56:02. | |
APPLAUSE We are going to have a guess and no | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
on this one, the last question from Elaine Pippard, please. Should Tyson | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
Fury competing Sports Personality of the Year? Should Tyson Fury, the | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
boxer, be allowed to be one of the nominees for Sports Personality of | :56:17. | :56:19. | |
the Year, or should the BBC kick him off the list? I will go round the | :56:20. | :56:25. | |
table, you know what he said, a woman's best places in the kitchen | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
and on her back, and talking about, sexuality and paedophilia and | :56:30. | :56:31. | |
abortion being the work of the devil. Mary Beard, should he be | :56:32. | :56:38. | |
there or kicked off? He's not in my dream team for a dinner party but | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
yes, have him there vote for somebody else. | :56:44. | :56:44. | |
APPLAUSE Greg Clark. Yes or no? You can vote | :56:45. | :56:53. | |
for Andy Murray in what he did in winning the Davis Cup for us. Byrom | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
Caroline Flint? Kick him off, it's about his personality and we need | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
better ambassadors in British sport. Quentin Letts, sportsmen | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
ambassadors? I'd definitely have him in because I want to see the | :57:10. | :57:11. | |
punch-up between him and Clare Balding at the end. My money is on | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
Claire, I think she would take him, in a sense. Vince Cable? I wouldn't | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
have him on, it's called Sports Personality of the Year, not | :57:24. | :57:26. | |
sportsperson of the year, it's about personality as well as sport and he | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
has failed that test. OK. APPLAUSE | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
Thank you all very much and thank you for your swift answers on that | :57:35. | :57:36. | |
issue, but our hour is up now. We're in Slough next | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
week with Piers Morgan With four other people, alongside | :57:40. | :57:47. | |
politicians. Then after Christmas we're | :57:48. | :57:52. | |
back on 14th January To join the audience | :57:53. | :57:54. | |
for either programme - Slough or Limehouse - | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
go to our website, or call: If you are listening on Radio 5Live, | :57:59. | :58:11. | |
you can continue the debate I hope that's a lively programme, it | :58:12. | :58:25. | |
usually is. My thanks to this panel and this audience, who can't take | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
part in that discussion. From all of us here in Bath, until next | :58:30. | :58:30. | |
Thursday, good night. What do we do with | :58:31. | :58:56. | |
something like this? that you might have heard | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
about me that could be true. We've got a nutjob | :59:01. | :59:13. | |
running around London. | :59:14. | :59:16. |