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Welcome to a special edition of Question Time. Last Wednesday, | 0:00:01 | 0:00:06 | |
Michael Gove faced our studio audience in Nottingham. Tonight, in | 0:00:07 | 0:00:10 | |
Milton Keynes, it is the turn of the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who | 0:00:11 | 0:00:19 | |
is speaking for the Remain campaign. Good evening. Campaigning resumed | 0:00:20 | 0:00:25 | |
today after the shocking murder of Jo Cox, and I hope that you will | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
agree that the best tribute to Jo Cox, and to her commitment to | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
democracy, would be for these important issues for our country to | 0:00:35 | 0:00:38 | |
be debated thoroughly from now until the vote on Thursday, and that is | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
what we intend to do here on Question Time tonight. Our audience | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
is divided evenly between those who want to remain and those who want to | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
leave, with some still trying to make up their minds. As always on | 0:00:50 | 0:00:55 | |
Question Time, Mr Cameron has not seen the questions in advance, does | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
not know what is going to be asked. Would you welcome the Prime | 0:01:00 | 0:01:01 | |
Minister, David Cameron? APPLAUSE | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
Thank you very much. Prime Minister, our first question | 0:01:06 | 0:01:20 | |
comes from Jo Cox, please, sorry, what a terrible thing to say, add | 0:01:21 | 0:01:28 | |
body. Mr Cameron, as this referendum soured the political debate in this | 0:01:29 | 0:01:30 | |
nation in light of the tragic murder of Jo Cox? Well, first of all, let | 0:01:31 | 0:01:36 | |
me say, you know, how shocked the whole country has been by this | 0:01:37 | 0:01:41 | |
appalling murder. Two children have lost their mother, a loving husband | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
has lost his wife, and my heart breaks when I think of them and what | 0:01:45 | 0:01:48 | |
they are going through. And I think the most important thing for | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
politicians is to remember what she was all about, which is service, | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
community, tolerance, values we should all try to live by and | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
promote in order to remember. Look, I don't think we know why exactly | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
this happened, or what the motivation was, and all the rest of | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
it, and we have to wait for the police investigation before we do | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
that. But I think what we do know is, wherever we see intolerance, | 0:02:12 | 0:02:17 | |
hatred, division, we should try and drive it out of our communities, out | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
of our public life, and we have to be careful that debates, yes, they | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
can be passionate, but we have to make sure that they are not based on | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
those things. Has it been a rather sour debate in your view? It has | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
been very passionate, and I understand that, because there are | 0:02:34 | 0:02:36 | |
strong and passionate views on both sides. I will be frank, there have | 0:02:37 | 0:02:41 | |
been moments, like the Nigel Farage poster, which I think are just | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
wrong, wrong in fact because it is a picture of people in the European | 0:02:46 | 0:02:50 | |
continent, from Syria and elsewhere, not coming to Britain. But also | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
wrong in motivation, because it is an attempt to frighten people, to | 0:02:55 | 0:02:59 | |
scare them, to divide people... Has your side been guilty of any of | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
that? I would say there is nothing more positive than trying to have a | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
growing economy, jobs and opportunities, which is what the | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
case for Remain is all about. We will come onto the economic | 0:03:11 | 0:03:16 | |
warnings... John Major called the other campaign squalid, yes? You | 0:03:17 | 0:03:19 | |
said that the leader of Isis would be happy if we left the EU. Those | 0:03:20 | 0:03:26 | |
contributions to a measured debate, you or John Major? I actually think | 0:03:27 | 0:03:31 | |
the Isis one is true, the terrorist to want to do us harm, they want the | 0:03:32 | 0:03:36 | |
West to be divided. They do not want Britain, France, Germany and Belgium | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
to work together to defeat terrorism, they would like to see us | 0:03:41 | 0:03:48 | |
celebrate. I think the poster was irresponsible. I think there is an | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
attempt to frighten people. You think by comparing the referencing | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
to Isis, you are scaremongering, rather than portraying the facts? -- | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
the referendum to Isis. APPLAUSE | 0:04:01 | 0:04:06 | |
I certainly wasn't comparing the referendum to Isis, to Daesh, I was | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
simply saying that I think one of the strongest arguments for | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
remaining in the European Union is that we are stronger together, we | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
are safer together will stop we do face a dangerous and insecure world, | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
and I have been your Prime Minister for six years, and I sit in meetings | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
and I see that we work together to face down these threats, and I think | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
we would be stronger if we work together. Working together against | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
terrorism, against Putin and his aggression in Europe, it must be | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
better to stay together, to work together, rather than be separate. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
One more point. I have to say, I have found the campaign is very | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
confusing. I don't think either side has made a very good point, and I am | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
an educated young woman, and I do not know how I am going to vote. I | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
think both sides should feel a little bit ashamed of how they have | 0:04:55 | 0:04:56 | |
behaved. APPLAUSE | 0:04:57 | 0:05:03 | |
Let's turn two aspects of the campaign. Is the emergency Brexit | 0:05:04 | 0:05:19 | |
Budget a punishment for Leave voters? The Chancellor of the | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
Exchequer produced a Budget which said 2p in the pound on income tax, | 0:05:23 | 0:05:28 | |
pensioners' triple lock no longer applied if we vote Leave. Nobody | 0:05:29 | 0:05:32 | |
wants to have cuts to public spending or putting up taxes, but | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
this goes to the heart of the debate and the heart of the argument we | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
need to have, because I am absolutely convinced that our | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
economy will suffer if we leave. And the reason for that is, today we are | 0:05:44 | 0:05:52 | |
part of a single market of 500 million people, and that is where | 0:05:53 | 0:05:54 | |
almost half of what we sell overseas goes. If we leave the single market, | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
if we have less good access to it, it stands to common sense that we | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
will have less growth, less jobs, less livelihoods for people in our | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
country. So if that happens, you don't gain money by leaving the EU. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
You actually make you a economy smaller, you have fewer jobs, less | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
tax revenues, so there is a big hole in public finances. What the | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
Chancellor was saying is that if that happened, you would have to | 0:06:17 | 0:06:19 | |
either allow borrowing to rise, which could threaten our economy, or | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
you have to put up taxes, or you have to cut spending. Those are, I | 0:06:24 | 0:06:27 | |
think, some pretty fundamental truths, and it is not just the May | 0:06:28 | 0:06:32 | |
side that as saying that. Expert after expert, the OECD, the IMF, the | 0:06:33 | 0:06:39 | |
Bank of England, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, all independent, | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
making this point. Are you planning an autumn Budget if we leave? If | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
these experts are right, that our economy would be smaller, and we | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
would have lower tax revenues, there will be no saving from leaving the | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
EU. There will be a cost that we have to make up in some way. | 0:06:55 | 0:07:00 | |
Immediately, autumn Budget? The Institute for Fiscal Studies says | 0:07:01 | 0:07:07 | |
that we would lose between ?20 - 40 billion in our public finances, so | 0:07:08 | 0:07:12 | |
you have to either put up taxes, cut spending or let borrowing rise. As | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
Prime Minister, six years ago, we got out of this hole of too much | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
borrowing, an economy that was not growing, not creating jobs. I don't | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
want us to go back to is where one, and that is why I hope people will | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
recognise we are stronger in and Abaaoud to remain. Your close | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
adviser Steve Hilton said of the forecasts, they are made up, I know, | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
because I used to do this stuff for them! Let's take this very | 0:07:39 | 0:07:40 | |
directly... APPLAUSE | 0:07:41 | 0:07:47 | |
It is not simply the Treasury that as saying we will suffer | 0:07:48 | 0:07:52 | |
economically, the IFS, the Bank of England, all these bodies. Let me | 0:07:53 | 0:07:56 | |
make a point, David, then I promise I will move on. The Leave campaign | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
say let's not listen to experts, but if we are going to drive our | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
children on a motorway and the mechanic says the brakes do not | 0:08:06 | 0:08:08 | |
work, the petrol gauge is faulty, the steering is not working - we | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
would not get in the car. We should listen to experts, because they are | 0:08:14 | 0:08:15 | |
giving is a very clear message of the risks to the economy, the risk | 0:08:16 | 0:08:20 | |
to jobs and the livelihoods of people in our country. We should | 0:08:21 | 0:08:24 | |
vote for a stronger economy, and that is vote to remain. With the | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
emergency Budget, as a 16-year-old, I would like to go to university, | 0:08:30 | 0:08:33 | |
how would it affect the cost of education? The good news is that we | 0:08:34 | 0:08:37 | |
have removed the cap on numbers who were going to universities, because | 0:08:38 | 0:08:43 | |
we have a feed system, which means that actually successful graduates | 0:08:44 | 0:08:45 | |
are paying for this system, they start paying back once they have | 0:08:46 | 0:08:50 | |
earned ?21,000, so we have managed to do that without a big cost to the | 0:08:51 | 0:08:55 | |
taxpayer. But, frankly, if you want to go to university, almost every | 0:08:56 | 0:08:58 | |
university, I think actually every university and vice Chancellor has | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
said, we are better off staying because we get so much research | 0:09:03 | 0:09:07 | |
funding, and they are giving a very clear message that we are better off | 0:09:08 | 0:09:12 | |
staying in. Why did you say, only a short time ago, that Britain outside | 0:09:13 | 0:09:17 | |
the EU would prosper and be OK? And now you are threatening a massive | 0:09:18 | 0:09:19 | |
Budget! Why? APPLAUSE | 0:09:20 | 0:09:28 | |
What I said, sir, is that Britain always finds a way, and we would, of | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
course, survive outside the European Union, we would find a way. But it | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
is my very clear view that it would be less good, that we would have | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
less growth, less jobs, less incomes for our families. We would suffer | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
economically. You can either believe the experts, and I think it is right | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
to listen to experts, or you can take this simple view that if we | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
have got free access to a market of 500 million people, that is where | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
almost half of our goods and services go. If we leave, they are | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
not going to give us as good a deal on the outside as we get on the | 0:10:02 | 0:10:07 | |
inside. You are relying on experts, like the Bank of England, who could | 0:10:08 | 0:10:13 | |
not even tell us exactly when interest rates will be reintroduced? | 0:10:14 | 0:10:16 | |
He has got it wrong three times. What I would say is when I am | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
thinking of buying a house, I listen to an expert. If I am thinking of | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
getting into a car, I listen to the mechanic. If I'm building a bridge, | 0:10:25 | 0:10:29 | |
I want an engineer. The people in the Leave campaign are asking you to | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
trust in just the sense that it is going to be OK, and I do not think | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
that is good enough for the families and businesses of Britain. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:45 | |
APPLAUSE If you believe in the Remain | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
campaign so passionately, why give people the option to leave? | 0:10:50 | 0:10:55 | |
APPLAUSE Well, sir, I think some questions | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
are so big that it is right they are answered by the people and not by | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
the politicians, and frankly we have been having an ultimate about Europe | 0:11:03 | 0:11:05 | |
in our country for the last 20 years. Since we last had a vote, | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
there have been quite a lot of changes to Europe, and I do not | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
think we should be frightened, in a democracy, of people making a | 0:11:13 | 0:11:15 | |
decision. I will accept that decision whatever it is. But I would | 0:11:16 | 0:11:21 | |
make one point tonight. Do believe it is irreversible. I think if we | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
vote to leave, I do not think there is any prospect of rejoining. If you | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
work trying to rejoin, I will just make the point, you would have to | 0:11:31 | 0:11:33 | |
join the single currency, the Schengen zone, you'd have to give up | 0:11:34 | 0:11:38 | |
the British rebate, so I see no prospect of rejoining. So this is a | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
final decision. You cannot, as it were, jumped out of the aeroplane | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
and tried to scramble back in through the cockpit hatch. So have | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
you got contingency plans, if happens to be Brexit... Of course. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:56 | |
What we would have to do is work out, as I said to the gentleman | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
here, we would have to work out the right way for Britain to succeed in | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
the future. But I am St Jude very clearly, I think that is the worst | 0:12:05 | 0:12:09 | |
of the two options. -- but I am saying to you. I think it would be | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
difficult, it would be tough. If we voted to leave, would you call a | 0:12:15 | 0:12:17 | |
general election? I think it is important for us to have... The next | 0:12:18 | 0:12:23 | |
step is really crucial for our country, and everybody, all the | 0:12:24 | 0:12:26 | |
parties, need to come up with a manifesto so that the people who are | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
taken control can actually vote the way they want the country to go | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
forward, so there will be infighting amongst the Tories, amongst the | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
Labour Party. Really, it is time to reconcile all those differences and | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
go forward on the basis of a decent business plan and let the people | 0:12:43 | 0:12:44 | |
decide where we go forward. APPLAUSE | 0:12:45 | 0:12:53 | |
What I would say is that when we had the general election last year, I | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
set out very clearly in a manifesto that we were going to hold a | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
renegotiation, we were going to hold a referendum, and in-out referendum, | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
the British people would decide, and we would accept that instruction... | 0:13:05 | 0:13:10 | |
People voted on the basis of a referendum, not the basis of what | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
would happen after a referendum. Inevitably, you either go one way or | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
the other way. But we did not know what the options would be, how would | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
would be taken forward. Louise Reilly, your question. Over here, | 0:13:23 | 0:13:30 | |
yes. How can you, as Prime Minister, possibly remain if the British | 0:13:31 | 0:13:36 | |
public vote to leave? You say when? Yes, when. How could you remain? We | 0:13:37 | 0:13:42 | |
had an election in 2015, my party won the election, I was leading the | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
party, so I was re-elected as Prime Minister. I promised the | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
renegotiation, carried it out, promised the referendum, we're | 0:13:51 | 0:13:53 | |
having it. I will obey the instructions of the British people | 0:13:54 | 0:13:56 | |
on that basis I think it is right to stay. I also think it is right not | 0:13:57 | 0:14:01 | |
to muddle up in this referendum the future of this politician or that | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
politician. The question on the ballot paper is very clear - do we | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
stay in or do we leave? My view is that remaining is the right answer | 0:14:10 | 0:14:14 | |
for our economy, jobs, safety, the strength of our country, and it is | 0:14:15 | 0:14:17 | |
an irreversible decision with no going back. You have said that this | 0:14:18 | 0:14:23 | |
referendum is more important than any general election. If you lost a | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
general election, you would be out of Number Ten like that. So if you | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
lose this referendum, why won't you be out of Number Ten like that? | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 | |
Because I said clearly we would hold a referendum, and I would accept the | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
instructions of the British people. So I think this is very important... | 0:14:38 | 0:14:42 | |
Doing the things you do not want to do. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:46 | |
APPLAUSE What I am saying... Just because you | 0:14:47 | 0:14:53 | |
hold a referendum does not mean you have a very strong view. I do have a | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
strong view, maybe it would be easier for me standing here to say, | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
well, on the one hand, strong arguments, and the other, strong | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
argument is, and unbalanced... That is not what I think, I really do | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
believe that we would be stronger, safer and better off in. I believe | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
our economy would be weakened if we leave, and that is why high of | 0:15:14 | 0:15:20 | |
spoken so frankly and so clearly, I think, throughout this campaign. -- | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
I have spoken. If you are so confident, it be hold you to say, | 0:15:24 | 0:15:26 | |
and if I lose, I quit, because it is not something I would go along with. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:31 | |
It's the wrong thing to do because we held a general election a year | 0:15:32 | 0:15:37 | |
ago, and my party won that election on the basis of holding a | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
referendum. What I don't understand, with all the experts you have saying | 0:15:42 | 0:15:47 | |
we should stay in, why the British public is more convinced? Why is | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
Brexit in the lead? APPLAUSE | 0:15:52 | 0:15:56 | |
I think people have found this debate and all the facts and the | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
figure is perhaps quite confusing. I think at moments that has happened | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
but I would say we have former pro days to do, people need to think | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
very carefully between now and Thursday, -- we have four days to | 0:16:09 | 0:16:12 | |
go. If all these experts who have looked at this issue to the | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
conclusion our economy will suffer and there is no going back and this | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
will have an impact on families and jobs and livelihoods, I believe that | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
as well and it's not just because of the experts, it's because I've | 0:16:24 | 0:16:26 | |
talked to car companies who are doing a brilliant job and our | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
workers are doing a brilliant job making cars in Britain, and I | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
worried about those jobs going overseas. I have talked to people | 0:16:35 | 0:16:38 | |
making trains and planes and exporting them to Europe. Why do you | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
say people are confused? If you trust people to make the decision, | 0:16:43 | 0:16:46 | |
the arguments are presented and people are confused. What you mean | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
is your points have not got across, isn't that what you mean? It is and | 0:16:51 | 0:16:55 | |
when you haven't got the point across its frustrating, it's not | 0:16:56 | 0:17:01 | |
getting through to people. I have four days to go and I will do a | 0:17:02 | 0:17:04 | |
better job of getting the argument across. It comes down to a simple | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
point about the economy but it also comes to a point about what sort of | 0:17:09 | 0:17:12 | |
country we want to be and I want is to be a country that does work | 0:17:13 | 0:17:15 | |
together with others, from what I've seen in six years and what I've | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
learned in six years, there is no problem in the world that isn't | 0:17:20 | 0:17:22 | |
better addressed by working with your friends and your allies and | 0:17:23 | 0:17:24 | |
your neighbours and that's what we face today. We should be working | 0:17:25 | 0:17:26 | |
together to grow our economies, working together to provide more | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
jobs and opportunities for young people, working together to beat | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
these terrorists that are trying to do with so much harm. If we walk | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
away and quit and leave this organisation for ever, we don't take | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
back control. We would be outside the room while the French and | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
Germans and Italians were working out, well, what are we going to do | 0:17:46 | 0:17:51 | |
to fix our economic problems? How shall we fight terrorists? What | 0:17:52 | 0:17:54 | |
rules shall we have for the single market? They will be deciding and we | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
should be there fighting. Britain doesn't quit, we fight, and that's | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
how we win. APPLAUSE | 0:18:02 | 0:18:10 | |
The EU used to have 20% of world trade. It's now dropped to 15%. Is | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
that a success story? Sir, what's happened is you've seen the rise of | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
countries like China and India, big economies that we need to trade with | 0:18:19 | 0:18:22 | |
more, but European trade and European economies have grown a | 0:18:23 | 0:18:27 | |
great amount since we joined in 1972. It struck from 20, to 15%. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:33 | |
Because of the share of the total. Drops. It's increased as an entity | 0:18:34 | 0:18:40 | |
it's increased, I don't want to baffle you with statistics. Let me | 0:18:41 | 0:18:46 | |
give you two statistics. 80% of our economy is services, things like | 0:18:47 | 0:18:52 | |
insurance, banking, architecture, sales and advertising, 80%. We sell | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
more in services today to Luxembourg than we do to the whole of India. Of | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
course we need to do better with India, we need a trade deal with | 0:19:00 | 0:19:03 | |
India, but the idea we should cut ourselves off from our main market I | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
think his economic madness. What we need to do is work to succeed in our | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
main market then open up the other market. Let's move on, I'm sure the | 0:19:14 | 0:19:16 | |
economy will come up again and again, a question from June, please. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:22 | |
Mr Cameron, why in your manifesto did you say you would bring down the | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
number of EU immigrants down to the thousands, when you knew very well | 0:19:28 | 0:19:30 | |
you couldn't control these numbers? APPLAUSE | 0:19:31 | 0:19:39 | |
I believe that immigration, net migration on that scale is the right | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
ambition for our country. Every year many British people and EU nationals | 0:19:44 | 0:19:46 | |
here in Britain leave and go and work in Europe and many Europeans | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
come and work here, and as recently as 2008, there were actually more | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
British and EU nationals leaving the UK than there were arriving to work, | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
so I think we've had a very extraordinary period for the last | 0:20:00 | 0:20:02 | |
five years, where we've created in Britain more jobs on the rest of the | 0:20:03 | 0:20:09 | |
European Union put together. That is now changing is that the European | 0:20:10 | 0:20:11 | |
Union economies are starting to grow. I think what we need to do is | 0:20:12 | 0:20:14 | |
better control migration from outside the EU, that's more than | 0:20:15 | 0:20:17 | |
half of the total, and then bring in the changes that I negotiated, which | 0:20:18 | 0:20:20 | |
I think will make a big difference because we are saying to people, if | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
we stay in, let me quickly do this, if we stay in, if you come and work | 0:20:25 | 0:20:28 | |
in Britain you can't claim unemployment benefit, if you don't | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
get a job after six months you have to leave, and if you do come and | 0:20:32 | 0:20:40 | |
work you have to work here for four years paying into our system before | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
you get full access to our tax credit and welfare system. Is your | 0:20:44 | 0:20:45 | |
target store 100,000? That's the right ambition. Is your target? A | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
lot of people say your failure to hit that target has exacerbated the | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
argument about immigration. The Prime Minister promised it, it's not | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
going to happen. Michael Gove said, if we leave the EU, I can do it in | 0:20:59 | 0:21:05 | |
Parliament. I accept it's very challenging controlling immigration. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:07 | |
More than half comes from outside the EU when we found that quite | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
difficult even though we've closed down bogus colleges and all the rest | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
of it. Inside the EU we've had this very strong growth here and weak | 0:21:17 | 0:21:22 | |
growth in the rest of Europe, that is changing, but what I'd say very | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
frankly as there are good ways of controlling immigration and these | 0:21:26 | 0:21:27 | |
welfare changes are good ways, and bad ways of controlling immigration, | 0:21:28 | 0:21:30 | |
and that would be leaving the single market, damaging our economy, | 0:21:31 | 0:21:33 | |
costing jobs and hurting British working families in the process. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
That's not the right way to control immigration. We have a lot of hands | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
up. Let's hear from the audience. I understand the importance in | 0:21:43 | 0:21:45 | |
relation to experts but that's exactly where the problem is. People | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
become so disillusioned with the establishment, they refuse to listen | 0:21:51 | 0:21:53 | |
to the experts, that's why 3.18 million people voted for Ukip and I | 0:21:54 | 0:21:59 | |
also believe at the end of the day whether we vote to Leave or remain | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
Remain, is the people's choice and as the Prime Minister you would say | 0:22:05 | 0:22:09 | |
we should do the politics of hope, we should do our best, and we | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
shouldn't have a budget that is the threatening the pensioner or other | 0:22:14 | 0:22:17 | |
people. Let's stick with immigration. You said Europe is | 0:22:18 | 0:22:24 | |
increasing work wise, Spain, Greece, Italy, France have got higher | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
unemployment than we have and no prospect of increasing jobs. Why are | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
you telling us that Europe is increasing, when it's not? Europeans | 0:22:32 | 0:22:36 | |
come here because they see the problem at home, and yet we try and | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
stay in Europe and not see the problem is that they have got. You | 0:22:41 | 0:22:43 | |
want to spend five minutes with me, I can tell you all about it. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
APPLAUSE Hang on, Prime Minister. Briefly, | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
the facts are, you are right about the Greek economy, it's still in | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
very great difficulty. The Spanish economy is growing, the French | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
economy is growing, the German economy is growing, that is | 0:23:01 | 0:23:02 | |
beginning to change and you can see that. The Irish economy grew 7% last | 0:23:03 | 0:23:07 | |
year, more than twice as fast as we did. I want to stick with the | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
immigration point, who wants to speak? New with the spectacle. I | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
think it's an illogical thing to understand that if we have | 0:23:18 | 0:23:20 | |
absolutely no limitations on immigration from the EU that people | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
are robbers Lee Byrne to immigrate over here, we have a public sector, | 0:23:24 | 0:23:27 | |
we have our NHS that is under tremendous strain at the moment, -- | 0:23:28 | 0:23:34 | |
people are going to immigrate over here. If we don't put a limit on | 0:23:35 | 0:23:37 | |
this immigration and the only way to do that is to leave the single | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
market, then everything is going to get flooded. You are not doing | 0:23:41 | 0:23:45 | |
anything to counterbalance all the immigration coming into these | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
services. Let's take the health service, an important point. What | 0:23:50 | 0:23:51 | |
I'd say is we are putting more money into the NHS. We can argue we should | 0:23:52 | 0:23:57 | |
put even more in, let's work out how to get the growth into our economy | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
into the NHS but when you listen to the people in the NHS, the Royal | 0:24:01 | 0:24:05 | |
College of midwives, the Royal College of Art positions, Simon | 0:24:06 | 0:24:08 | |
Stevens who runs the NHS, the trade unions who work in the NHS, they all | 0:24:09 | 0:24:15 | |
want is to remain in reformed -- they want is to remain in a reformed | 0:24:16 | 0:24:19 | |
Europe, because it's better for the NHS. You talk about a reformed | 0:24:20 | 0:24:24 | |
European Union that we are part of, fair enough, you have negotiated | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
some changes which you say will make a massive difference to the | 0:24:28 | 0:24:31 | |
immigration, but realistically it is not, it's not going to make a | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
massive difference to the levels of immigration, especially considering | 0:24:36 | 0:24:37 | |
there are other countries about to join. What do you want to happen? | 0:24:38 | 0:24:46 | |
Leave the single market, negotiate our trade worldwide. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:47 | |
APPLAUSE Let's take a moment on the issue of | 0:24:48 | 0:24:51 | |
let's leave and negotiate our trade arrangements with the European | 0:24:52 | 0:24:54 | |
Union. This is to stop immigration, that's what she said. Some people | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
think that's what we should do, the best trade deal Europe has ever done | 0:25:00 | 0:25:04 | |
is with Canada, it's taken seven years to negotiate, it still hasn't | 0:25:05 | 0:25:07 | |
been completed, it doesn't give full access is for services and farmers, | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
so what we have been looking at, this is so important for people | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
watching this, if we vote to leave we are facing potentially a decade | 0:25:15 | 0:25:20 | |
of uncertainty. Two years to get out of the European Union, seven years | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
to negotiate a trade deal with the European Union, and for young people | 0:25:25 | 0:25:26 | |
starting out on their working life that means a whole decade of not | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
knowing the direction in which their country is going. I think that would | 0:25:31 | 0:25:36 | |
be a mistake for our country. APPLAUSE | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
You, sir. Fire away. Is there anything fair about immigration | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
system that prioritises unskilled workers from within the EU, over | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
unskilled workers who are coming from outside the EU? | 0:25:49 | 0:25:54 | |
APPLAUSE Sir, we effectively have two | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
systems, we have a system inside the European Union will British | 0:26:00 | 0:26:01 | |
nationals who want to go and work in Spain or Italy or France or | 0:26:02 | 0:26:05 | |
elsewhere are able to do that and European nationals can come and work | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
here, and from outside the European Union we have a points -based system | 0:26:09 | 0:26:14 | |
where we only take people in if they have skills and we have gaps in | 0:26:15 | 0:26:16 | |
those skills. So the argument, the answer and argument we have to make | 0:26:17 | 0:26:20 | |
with ourselves is to think is it really worth leaving the single | 0:26:21 | 0:26:24 | |
market, damaging our economy, in order to try to make progress with | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
this issue? I don't think it is. Those Leave campaigners who say they | 0:26:29 | 0:26:32 | |
want an Australian points style system for inside the EU, Australia | 0:26:33 | 0:26:36 | |
has more than twice as much net migration per head as we do. There's | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
no silver bullet this issue. No simple way of solving this issue. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:46 | |
Prime Minister, if you left the EU there would be a silver bullet | 0:26:47 | 0:26:48 | |
because then you have total control over the number of people coming in? | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
APPLAUSE First of all, you don't have | 0:26:54 | 0:26:59 | |
control... Why don't you have control? The we have more than half | 0:27:00 | 0:27:03 | |
coming from outside the EU. Why don't you have control over that? | 0:27:04 | 0:27:08 | |
That's more than half, you have to work on that, it takes time and it's | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
been difficult. Inside the EU is what I'm arguing... What do you | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
mean, it's been difficult? You mean you haven't achieved it. Why has it | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
been difficult? Lots of people want to come and study and work and live | 0:27:21 | 0:27:26 | |
in our country. We've taken all the -- we've taken a lot of steps. But | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
it's your decision as Prime Minister. I'm explaining why their | 0:27:31 | 0:27:33 | |
has been a difficult thing to do, but the real argument here is do we | 0:27:34 | 0:27:39 | |
want to leave the single market and damage our economy in order to try | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
and deal with this issue? I think that is the wrong way to go because | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
you are going to be cutting jobs, cutting livelihoods, harming the | 0:27:47 | 0:27:49 | |
interests of families in our country and that isn't what we should be | 0:27:50 | 0:27:53 | |
doing. Lots of hands up, I want to ask one thing, your Home Secretary | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
Theresa May has said there is some changes coming up in free movement | 0:27:58 | 0:28:01 | |
rules in the EU and we should look for further reform in the future. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
You saying as part of this campaign, don't worry, we are going to cut on | 0:28:06 | 0:28:12 | |
EU entry to this country in the way Theresa May suggests? What she is | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
saying is there is that a set of reforms coming in if we stay which | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
we have negotiated. There's the changes to welfare. Which you have | 0:28:19 | 0:28:24 | |
done. She says there will be further reform. There are welfare changes | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
which make a difference, we have also got further changes to make | 0:28:29 | 0:28:30 | |
sure we can throw at criminals, that we can stop people with sham | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
marriages, that people who are third country nationals can't come in | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
because of a marriage they have made. Those changes are coming. We | 0:28:38 | 0:28:42 | |
are reopening the free -- the freedom of movement directive. This | 0:28:43 | 0:28:45 | |
is an ongoing process, the more we can do, the better. The man over | 0:28:46 | 0:28:51 | |
there. Mr Cameron, you keep saying that you propose to stop immigrants | 0:28:52 | 0:28:58 | |
claiming benefits, is this just a proposal, or can you enforce it or | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
have you got to go back to the EU to get it in forced? Yes, sir, it's | 0:29:04 | 0:29:10 | |
agreed by the 27 other prime ministers and presidents. It's part | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
of what will become a legally binding document and these changes | 0:29:14 | 0:29:17 | |
are coming in, the head of the European Parliament has said that as | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
well. These are things, they come in, if we vote Yes to remain in a | 0:29:21 | 0:29:25 | |
reformed European Union on Thursday, those proposals get put in front of | 0:29:26 | 0:29:28 | |
the European Parliament and start to be passed straightaway. What happens | 0:29:29 | 0:29:34 | |
if somebody vetoes you? They have all agreed they won't. Can we | 0:29:35 | 0:29:40 | |
believe that? This is part of the document that is a legally binding | 0:29:41 | 0:29:44 | |
agreement and I'm very confident, I wouldn't be standing this saying to | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
you if I didn't believe it, I'm very confident all of these changes will | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
come in and they are significant. To the lady who said, will it have an | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
effect, today, someone can come into our country, get a job and get on | 0:29:57 | 0:30:01 | |
top of their first year's salary ?10,000 in extra benefits. Now, that | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
will stop if we vote to Remain and my changes go through, which they | 0:30:07 | 0:30:09 | |
will. But I believe will have a profound effect. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:14 | |
How long are these changes meant to last, the four years etc, the | 0:30:15 | 0:30:21 | |
welfare changes? How long are they going to remain? They will last | 0:30:22 | 0:30:29 | |
until 2028, so if they come in... By then, there will be all sorts of | 0:30:30 | 0:30:35 | |
other... That is 12 years from now. Yes, you, there. What about people | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
with children still wanting to come to our country from the EU? We would | 0:30:40 | 0:30:44 | |
have a duty of care to those children and families, are you | 0:30:45 | 0:30:47 | |
saying that they will not get benefits, they will not be able to | 0:30:48 | 0:30:50 | |
have somewhere to live? Or would we still provide the funding for those | 0:30:51 | 0:30:54 | |
children to live in this country? The rules would be that if people | 0:30:55 | 0:31:00 | |
come here to work, and had access to the welfare system, instead of the | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
instant access they get now, with tax credits, child tax credits and | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
the rest of it, they would have to work for four years before they got | 0:31:08 | 0:31:12 | |
full access. That is a significant change... But what if they couldn't | 0:31:13 | 0:31:17 | |
get any work? And they have got children? If they cannot get work | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
and they cannot support themselves, they have to go home. They too. This | 0:31:21 | 0:31:26 | |
is very important. We would have a duty of care to those children when | 0:31:27 | 0:31:35 | |
they came to the country. Because they are children. The freedom to | 0:31:36 | 0:31:37 | |
work is not an unqualified right, this is really important, I am not | 0:31:38 | 0:31:40 | |
sure we have got this across. If you cannot support yourself and you | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
cannot find a job, you have to go home. That is being strengthened | 0:31:44 | 0:31:46 | |
under our rules. It is very important, because it is the freedom | 0:31:47 | 0:31:51 | |
of movement to work, not to claim. OK, we will move on, yes. Mr | 0:31:52 | 0:31:57 | |
Cameron, you say that your policy that you have negotiated with Europe | 0:31:58 | 0:32:02 | |
cannot be overruled. It can. So are you really the 21st century Neville | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
Chamberlain waving a piece of paper in the air, saying to the public, | 0:32:07 | 0:32:14 | |
this is what I have, I have this promise, where a dictatorship in | 0:32:15 | 0:32:17 | |
Europe can overrule it? APPLAUSE | 0:32:18 | 0:32:23 | |
Simple question, yes or no please! The other 27 Prime Ministers and | 0:32:24 | 0:32:27 | |
presidents have agreed it, and they know if Britain votes to remain, | 0:32:28 | 0:32:32 | |
they will implement it. I think, you know, this is not an empire or | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
dictatorship... It is the principal. We are proving through this | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
referendum that if Britain wants to leave this organisation, we can. We | 0:32:41 | 0:32:44 | |
are a sovereign country, we choose to join Nato or the EU, and if we | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
choose to leave, we can leave. But if we do, that is it. We are walking | 0:32:50 | 0:32:56 | |
out the door, we are quitting, giving up on this organisation | 0:32:57 | 0:32:59 | |
which, even if we leave, will have a huge effect on our lives, our | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
children, how opportunities, how businesses. I do not think Britain | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
is a quitter, we stay and fight, that is what we should do. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
CHEERING No, no, wait... You have made the | 0:33:11 | 0:33:19 | |
point. Let me make one more point, I sit two yards away from the Cabinet | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
room where Winston Churchill decided in 1942 fight on against Hitler, the | 0:33:24 | 0:33:28 | |
best, the greatest decision anyone has made in our country, right? Now, | 0:33:29 | 0:33:32 | |
he did not want to be alone, he wanted to be fighting with the | 0:33:33 | 0:33:35 | |
French and others, but he did not quit on Europe, he did not quit on | 0:33:36 | 0:33:39 | |
European democracy, European freedom. We want to fight for those | 0:33:40 | 0:33:49 | |
things today, and you cannot win, you cannot fight if you are not in | 0:33:50 | 0:33:52 | |
the room. You cannot win a football match if you are not on the pitch! | 0:33:53 | 0:33:53 | |
APPLAUSE Let's... Let's turned to a question | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
where you will be in the room if Britain remains. Michael Tindale. | 0:33:57 | 0:34:02 | |
Thank you. Prime Minister, will you be to the accession of Turkey into | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
the EU? I don't think it's going to happen for decades, so as far as I | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
am concerned, the question does not arise. This is the biggest red | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
herring in this whole referendum debate. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
APPLAUSE I cannot find a single expert | 0:34:20 | 0:34:23 | |
anywhere in the country or in Europe that things that Turkey is going to | 0:34:24 | 0:34:26 | |
join the EU in the next three decades. Let me explain why. To | 0:34:27 | 0:34:32 | |
join, you have to open and close and negotiate 35 chapters, they have | 0:34:33 | 0:34:36 | |
done one. In this rate they will join in the 3000. I feel strongly | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
about this, because people are getting through their letterboxes | 0:34:40 | 0:34:44 | |
leaflets from Leave saying, basically, Turkey is going to join | 0:34:45 | 0:34:47 | |
the EU, not true, there's going to be a European army with Britain in | 0:34:48 | 0:34:56 | |
it, not true, and we give ?350 million with the Brussels, not true. | 0:34:57 | 0:34:59 | |
If we want to both macro to leave, let's not do it on the basis of | 0:35:00 | 0:35:01 | |
three things that are completely untrue. -- if we want to vote to | 0:35:02 | 0:35:07 | |
leave. All right, well, let's just... What you said in Turkey was, | 0:35:08 | 0:35:13 | |
in terms of Turkish membership, I very much support that. What he is | 0:35:14 | 0:35:18 | |
asking is, if it comes up, will you be to it? It is not going to come | 0:35:19 | 0:35:24 | |
up. Well, wait a minute. It will come at some time, Michael Gove | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
thinks in our lifetime or his. You say it will be three decades away. I | 0:35:29 | 0:35:33 | |
am not going to be Prime Minister in three decades time! Everybody talks | 0:35:34 | 0:35:35 | |
about their children and grandchildren. They will be in that | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
world. If this was going to happen in the next couple of years, I would | 0:35:42 | 0:35:45 | |
not supported, but it is not going to. This is about 30, 40 years' | 0:35:46 | 0:35:51 | |
time, and I am not going to be Prime Minister in 30 or 40 years' time. It | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
is a red herring. The people who have decided to Vote Leave, | 0:35:56 | 0:36:00 | |
obviously, it is a choice, it is a referendum, but to do it on the | 0:36:01 | 0:36:05 | |
basis of Turkey joining the EU, you would be voting to damage our | 0:36:06 | 0:36:08 | |
economy on the basis of something that is not going to happen, and | 0:36:09 | 0:36:16 | |
that would be a crazy thing to do. Why can't you just say, I want the | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
world to know that I would attempt to this? Stop the discussion, no | 0:36:21 | 0:36:23 | |
more talk about it. APPLAUSE | 0:36:24 | 0:36:26 | |
Let me explain why Britain has always been very favourable to | 0:36:27 | 0:36:30 | |
Turkey. We want Turkey to be a Western leaning country, we want it | 0:36:31 | 0:36:34 | |
to be a democracy, to have a rule of law. We do not want it to imprison | 0:36:35 | 0:36:38 | |
journalists, frankly it is not going well at the moment. But let me say | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
again, because for people watching at home, I don't want anyone to vote | 0:36:43 | 0:36:49 | |
in this referendum on the basis of Turkey joining the EU, just like the | 0:36:50 | 0:36:54 | |
European army or the 350 million, which are not true. Those three, the | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
three leading things on their leaflets, are simply not true, and | 0:36:59 | 0:37:02 | |
it would be a tragedy if we damaged our economy, wrecked job prospect in | 0:37:03 | 0:37:05 | |
this country on the basis of three things that are completely untrue. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:12 | |
APPLAUSE Obviously, immigration has been the | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
most pressing issue for most people. I just wonder how much you would | 0:37:17 | 0:37:20 | |
accept personal responsibility for austerity in the country that is | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
fuelling this? Because people are concerned, because they feel that | 0:37:26 | 0:37:28 | |
there is pressure on the public services, and would you agree that | 0:37:29 | 0:37:32 | |
is the effect of the Conservatives, rather than the effect of | 0:37:33 | 0:37:34 | |
immigration? APPLAUSE | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
Well... Obviously, I will defend all the things that my government has | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
done over the last six years to try to get our economy back on track, | 0:37:43 | 0:37:46 | |
and I know people will disagree with some, maybe many of the decisions, | 0:37:47 | 0:37:50 | |
but I think it is incontrovertible that the economy is moving forward, | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
we have created over 2 million jobs, we are seeing opportunities again | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
for people in our country, and what I passionately do not want to | 0:37:58 | 0:38:00 | |
happen, after all the hard work the British people have put in, is to go | 0:38:01 | 0:38:06 | |
back to square one, to damage our economy, to put up borrowing, to see | 0:38:07 | 0:38:09 | |
more austerity because you would have this gap in our public | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
finances. I think that is the worst thing for us to do to our country, | 0:38:13 | 0:38:17 | |
we do not have to do it, we can vote for a stronger economy by voting | 0:38:18 | 0:38:24 | |
Remain. The leader of your campaign, Lord Rose, gave evidence and said | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
the price of labour will frankly go up if we leave the EU, people will | 0:38:29 | 0:38:34 | |
be better off if we'll even EU. The overwhelming majority of experts... | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
Each is your leader! If we leave, you will see the economy supper. Why | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
did he say this? If you look at the full context... I have it here, I | 0:38:44 | 0:38:51 | |
can read it. If free movement were to end, is it not reasonable to | 0:38:52 | 0:38:54 | |
suppose that we could see increases in wages for low skilled workers in | 0:38:55 | 0:39:00 | |
the UK? Lord Rose, well, if you are short of labour, the price will | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
frankly go up, so yes. And any goes on to say a lot of other things. And | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
any says, that is not necessarily a good thing! You about independent | 0:39:09 | 0:39:14 | |
organisation saying that the economy would suffer, and if half of your | 0:39:15 | 0:39:19 | |
exports go to a single market of 500 million people, if you damage your | 0:39:20 | 0:39:22 | |
access to that market, by definition, you will be less well | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
off. We can talk about the freedom of movement, I don't want the | 0:39:27 | 0:39:29 | |
movement of British car workers per or jobs to go to the People making | 0:39:30 | 0:39:41 | |
ebb as wings to go to the Continent. -- Airbus wings. The overwhelming | 0:39:42 | 0:39:45 | |
majority of young people want to remain in the European Union. All | 0:39:46 | 0:39:51 | |
the polls do. Would it be fair on them, they are the future, if their | 0:39:52 | 0:39:56 | |
future is changed in this referendum? | 0:39:57 | 0:39:57 | |
APPLAUSE I very much hope... I very much | 0:39:58 | 0:40:03 | |
hope, in this referendum, that people will talk across generations, | 0:40:04 | 0:40:06 | |
I absolutely agree with you, sir, for young people this is a decision | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
they will have to live with for all of their lives, because I think this | 0:40:11 | 0:40:13 | |
is irreversible. I do not think there is any way back in, as I have | 0:40:14 | 0:40:18 | |
described. I hope that young people talk to parents and grandparents, | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
discuss what this means in terms of opportunity. It is clear that there | 0:40:23 | 0:40:28 | |
are more opportunities for being in an organisation of 28 different | 0:40:29 | 0:40:30 | |
countries, being able to live, work and study in different places in | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
Europe, having the strength of numbers in order to drive the great | 0:40:34 | 0:40:37 | |
trade deals we need. Our single market is a bigger market than the | 0:40:38 | 0:40:40 | |
whole of China, a bigger and richer economy than the whole of America. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:44 | |
We will only get better trade deals if we stay in, and that will be good | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
for young people, jobs and opportunity. A question from | 0:40:48 | 0:40:53 | |
porosity, please. Hi. Why do we have to keep subsidising poorer EU | 0:40:54 | 0:40:58 | |
countries through our ever increasing contribution with the NHS | 0:40:59 | 0:41:04 | |
and certain UK industry is being more deserving of these funds? | 0:41:05 | 0:41:07 | |
APPLAUSE We have only got a minute or two. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:16 | |
The EU budget is going down. 8.5 billion a year, just to give | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
people... But there is no saving from leaving. If you leave and your | 0:41:21 | 0:41:23 | |
economy is smaller, fewer people in work and less taxes, there would be | 0:41:24 | 0:41:28 | |
a cost to leaving, and that is what all of these economists are saying. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:32 | |
Again, people who vote believing there will be a dividend from | 0:41:33 | 0:41:35 | |
leaving are wrong. We are going to lose money if we leave. You ask | 0:41:36 | 0:41:42 | |
about the cost... Subsidising poorer countries. Some countries severed | 0:41:43 | 0:41:46 | |
and the commoners and... How many countries contribute to the EU | 0:41:47 | 0:41:51 | |
budget and how many take? From when we first joined in 1972 and today we | 0:41:52 | 0:41:59 | |
give to a lot more than we did then. France used to be a net benefit, but | 0:42:00 | 0:42:07 | |
France, Germany and we all pay in more than we get out, but we get | 0:42:08 | 0:42:11 | |
more back in terms of jobs and growth and we put in. All the people | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
who have looked at this age, far from them being a saving by leaving, | 0:42:16 | 0:42:22 | |
there would be a cost to leaving. That is why there were proposals for | 0:42:23 | 0:42:27 | |
a Budget last week. Be quick, if you would. Surely the deal on the table | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
is just a starting point, it is not black and white, this is the deal | 0:42:33 | 0:42:35 | |
that is on the table at the moment, but surely you will be looking for | 0:42:36 | 0:42:38 | |
further reform to take to the EU on things like the principles of | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
freedom of movement and other issues that are sensitive in this campaign. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:48 | |
Where you are absolutely right is that if we stay, we can work for | 0:42:49 | 0:42:52 | |
more reform. If we leave, reform is over, we are out, we have quit and | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
walked away. Britain does have a special status. Our membership is | 0:42:57 | 0:43:00 | |
not like anybody else's, we are not voting on the basis of French or | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
Italian mentorship. We are out of the euro, we keep the pound, we are | 0:43:05 | 0:43:09 | |
in the single market but we have kept our borders and do not have the | 0:43:10 | 0:43:12 | |
Schengen system. We are out of ever closer union. This is a special | 0:43:13 | 0:43:15 | |
status, and we should be working to enhance that. If we vote to get out, | 0:43:16 | 0:43:21 | |
we lose it for ever. Question Time has no special status, we have to | 0:43:22 | 0:43:25 | |
make way for the football! So that ends this special edition. We will | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
be back next Thursday week after the vote in Preston, so I hope you will | 0:43:30 | 0:43:33 | |
join us then. In the meantime, my thanks to the Prime Minister and all | 0:43:34 | 0:43:38 | |
of you who came here to Milton Keynes to take part. Thank you are | 0:43:39 | 0:43:39 | |
much! Thank you. who want to show us how good they | 0:43:40 | 0:44:12 | |
are in the kitchen. Many of them can sing, dance, act. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:17 | |
We don't care about that. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 |