08/09/2016 Question Time

Tonight, the leader of the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn,

and the challenger for the leadership, Owen Smith,

Our audience here is made up of Labour voters,

evenly divided between supporters of the two candidates.

There are also some voters from other parties ?

As always on Question Time, neither contender knows any

You can use Facebook and Twitter to comment on what you hear.

Our hashtag is #bbcqt, or text 83981,

and push the red button to see what others are saying.

The question then is, who should lead the Labour Party?

Please welcome Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith.

Welcome to you both. Thank you very much. Our first question from

Stephen Williams, please. Mr Corbyn has no support from his MPs, Mr

Smith has no support from his party. Should they not stand aside and let

a unity candidate unite the party? Step aside, both of you, and unite

the party. There are no absolutes in this respect. Yes, there is huge

support within the party a direction of this party in opposing austerity

and campaigning for equality across Britain. Yes, a number of MPs do

support me, a large number do not. I understand that. But when this

election is over, if I am elected leader of the party, I hope the MPs

will come together, we will once again have a Shadow Cabinet that is

balanced and extended to all wings of the party, and we will get

together to take on the Tories and what they are doing to education, to

health, to housing, and creating greater inequality in this country.

That is what I am offering. APPLAUSE

Just before I come to Owen Smith, what makes you think 80% of the

parliamentary party who abandoned you will suddenly come flooding

back? I have been talking to lots of them. MPs talk a great deal. I think

after the election and after conference is over, you will see the

wish of MPs to reflect the wishes of party members all over the country,

that there is a coming together in order to oppose this Tory

government. APPLAUSE

There are still three weeks to go in this contest and it's an incredibly

important choice we face before us in the Labour Party. I'm incredibly

proud that I got the support of 170 of our 220 MPs in Westminster, and

that shows that I can command respect and support in the

Parliamentary Labour Party, where we have to take the fight to the Tories

and build the case for a future Labour government. I am also pleased

that in the one vote we have had in the contest so far, in the GMB, one

of the great trade unions in this country, I won. 40,000 people voted,

26,000 voted for me, 17,004 Jeremy. I am incredibly confident that I can

win this contest. I say to everybody in the Labour movement right now, it

is in your hands, the choices with you as to whether we want to be with

Jeremy and in opposition potentially for a generation, or start leading

the way back to Labour being in power. That is where we need to be

and that is what I intend to deliver.

APPLAUSE Do you want to come back on that?

What is your view? The squabbles have made the party look

unelectable. Both of you look unelectable. You should stand aside

and let somebody else, Harriet Harman, somebody like that,

somebody, anybody, leads the party to victory. Otherwise, ten more

years of Conservative government that nobody wants, especially not

you two, I'm sure. So stand aside. Thanks for your vote of confidence,

I really appreciate it. I just say this to you. Over the past year we

have recruited 300,000 members to the Labour Party. That surely has to

be something worth noticing. APPLAUSE

80% of the constituency parties, the local parties that nominated,

nominated me for the leadership. Now, you not think that we have the

wherewithal or capabilities to do things, but I am sure you would

understand that those people that have nominated us both think we can

do the job, both want the party to succeed, and that very large body of

members want to go doorknocking, campaigning and all that kind of

thing. I think what you have had is a few weeks of incredibly negative

press about the party because of the leadership election. Indeed, we have

had a year of negative press about the party. I think after conference

you will see something happening which will be that unity, to take on

the Tories and what they are doing in this country. I really do believe

that. APPLAUSE

I admire Jeremy's optimism but I don't think that is what we will

see. The truth is it is not just 300,000 new members we have seen. We

have seen Labour going backwards, back at 26-27% in the polls. Right

now, the chances are we would be out of power for a generation. If there

were an election tomorrow, Labour would lose up to 60 seats. The

entire reason I am standing in this campaign is in order to get Labour

back to where it needs to be, taking on the Tories, really defending our

record, standing up for what we believe in and presenting a credible

alternative to the Tories. Instead of which, I think Jeremy is more

satisfied with leading the Labour Party in opposition. I'm never going

to be satisfied with that. I want to lead us back to government.

APPLAUSE How will you lead better than he

does? How will you unite the party? The first thing to do is to be a

credible opposition. Today, for example, we have seen a 20% rise

since last year in zero-hours contract, 1 million extra people

announced today on waiting lists in the NHS. And the Tories doing

something not even Margaret Thatcher dared to do, bringing back to tear

education. Jeremy has not commented on any of these things. The Tories

are running amok in this country right now and we in the Labour

Party, all of us here, everybody right across this party, not just

the Parliamentary Labour Party, we are all guilty of letting down not

our party, the people we seek to serve, the people who need a Labour

government to get those waiting lists down, to invest in the NHS,

make sure we don't have grammar schools back. But we can't do any of

that in opposition. We have to win to do it. It is not a dirty word, it

is what we are about. I will go to you first. Up until the

mass resignations that took place within the Labour Party, within the

PLP, were we not ahead by a couple of percent?

APPLAUSE Was that not the point at which we

started falling backwards? No. Let me correct you, sir. You are wrong.

In 89 polls, under Jeremy's leadership, we were behind in 85 of

them. We were at level pegging in four. We are at a lower ebb in the

polls than since 1982 when I was 12. We are a disaster. We were behind in

85 polls in a row under Jeremy, before the PLP resigned. And we are

further behind right now. You, sir, on the left. I would like to say to

you, Jeremy, ignore some of the negative comments that are coming,

because I have been a Labour Party supporter for a very long time. I

walked up and down the street knocking on doors, and people love

you. People want you to be the Prime Minister.

APPLAUSE The reason they want you to be Prime

Minister is because you care about them, they know you will fight for

justice, fight for poverty, education, employment. He can make

the speech! Well done. All right, we have heard from a staunch supporter

of Jeremy Corbyn. I would like to hear from a staunch supporter of

Owen Smith's campaign. Yes, you, sir. It is fair to say the Labour

Party membership has gone up, but why did we get annihilated in

Scotland behind the Tories bastion Mark what is your view about the

Smith campaign? I think the Labour Party is in a sad situation because

I can't same heart is beating on either side, to be honest. I think

it is sad that we have booing when we oppose Jeremy, but I think Owen's

campaign is more balanced. It is one thing to have principles and

beliefs, but you have to sell it to the British people in our electoral

system, and Scotland showed that you did not do that.

APPLAUSE One of the reasons I am supporting

Owen is that I believe the Parliamentary Labour Party is the

most important thing to focus on. It is what makes us electable. But I

have been on the committee of our young CLP group for a while and I

have been so disappointed. The discourse has not been constructive,

it has been divisive and abusive at times. I have this associated myself

from it completely because it upsets me. You can hear it tonight with

people booing. It is both sides but I have heard it mostly from Jeremy's

side, and I think that is bad. It just upsets me when one party, and

at the end of this I don't want people to split and leave. I have

had members of 30 years' time they want to leave if one or the other

wins. It is not right. We are one party and I think what is happening

in general is disgraceful. APPLAUSE

Jeremy, why have you not considered your core vote? You may have the

support of the membership but not of the core vote, which is what counts

and wins a general election. Jeremy Corbyn. First, on the point is taken

from the back, there should be no abuse, there should be no online

abuse, no Twitter abuse, there should not be abuse in political

debate. I never make personal attacks on anybody, that is not the

way I conduct myself, and I want other people to do the same. Yes,

the party has to come together. Yes, after this election is over at the

result will be announced and from that point on we have to be a strong

campaigning party. We were more or less level pegging with the Tories

until there was this series of resignations from the Shadow

Cabinet. And I hope that Owen or understand that after this election

there has to be a coming together, and that all numbers of the

Parliamentary Labour Party will be prepared to come together to achieve

that. Your point about the core vote, the core vote is people who

have consistently voted Labour for very many years. It is also a very

large number of people who are intrinsically inclined towards

Labour but have not bothered to vote in the past. Only 47% of young

people voted in the last general election. There is an energising of

politics over the past year. Many of those that have joined the party,

many of those that are active in local groups are very well connected

with colleges, universities, young people at work. I tell you this,

after this leadership is over there will be that energising in politics,

which will challenge the Tories. What are the Tories offering? They

are offering greater inequality, they are offering continuation of

low wages, and in many cases zero-hours contracts. They are

offering selectivity in education rather than universality, which is

something I believe in. They are not offering anything that will solve

the housing crisis people face across this country. A Labour

opposition offering investment in a growing economy, a Labour opposition

offering to invest to drive down begin qualities in Britain and

invest in a growing economy with sustainable jobs, I think that is

something that is very attractive and will bring an awful lot of

people over to Labour. APPLAUSE

One more question about the future after this thing is over, this

election is decided. Maureen Kelly has a question. If Jeremy wins the

contest, will it inevitably lead to a split in the party? As many have

suggested, Owen Smith. What do you think? I hope and pray that it does

not. One of the reasons I am running is to stop the split. The question

was, will it inevitably lead to it? How will it be avoided. Jeremy, or

I, whoever wins, needs to working credibly hard to heal the rifts. You

will work with him if he wins? I have already said I will happily

vote Labour. You will join the Shadow Cabinet if he wins? I have

said I could not serve Jeremy with integrity because I don't agree can

lead us to victory. So the division is already there. Would you urge the

80% to come behind Jeremy, or should they stay to one side and let them

get on with it because he is going to lose? It is for others to decide.

But you must have a view. My view is that I would not serve in Jeremy's

Shadow Cabinet because I could not do that with integrity. But that is

not to split the party because I will always be Labour. I am never

going to leave the Labour Party, I will be Labour until the day I die.

I have worried because this is at the heart of it. It is about

reality. Jeremy says we were ahead in the polls. We were not. He says

we are doing OK in Scotland and we are not, having gone from second to

third, behind the Tories. And he says he can win by getting voters to

come back and vote Labour when all of the numbers tell us everybody who

has ever knocked on a door in this country knows that we will not win

by getting nonvoters. The way we win this by getting people who voted

Tory to vote Labour at the next election and Jeremy is not going to

persuade them. APPLAUSE

A brief point from you at the front set. I think Alyn Smith has answered

the question. He's open to a party splitting. Why would a Labour Party

member not serve under Jeremy Corbyn? If he was a true labour

member, he would serve under any Labour leader. As Jeremy has done.

You are in the wrong party. That's the sort of abuse we have been

subjected to in this campaign. I'm a Labour man and have been Labour all

my life. I will always be Labour. How come you won't serve under him?

The crucial moment when I decided I would stand was when John McDonnell

said to me that he was prepared to see the party split in order to

further his project. That's the moment I realised we needed to stand

up and be counted and make sure we didn't split the party. Jeremy

Corbyn, can you comment on what John McDonnell said? We had a discussion

in my office in which Owen was present and Owen generously offered

me unopposed election to a nonexistent job that wasn't his gift

to give if I resigned from the party. That's a different

conversation, Jeremy. It was really generous of you, Owen. You and I

managed to work together quite well on issues surrounding the DWP.

Indeed, we had a major victory on that. All of us had that major

victory, which was very good. 3 million families didn't lose ?1000

this year because of that victory we managed to impose in the House of

Lords and our opposition in the House of Commons. That was good,

surely. I don't fully understand what the problem is. You obviously

have enormous talents so why can't we work together? I've said it

several times, Jeremy. And I will say it again to you. If I felt you

were going to lead Labour back to power then I would work with you in

the Shadow Cabinet. But I feel you are satisfied to lead us in

opposition. We need a leader who is determined to lead Labour back into

government. I don't think you can do that, and I don't think you think

you can do it. I think that's a desperate shame for this country

because we need a Labour government to stop zero hours contracts, to

invest in the NHS and ensure we have decent housing. The only way we will

achieve all those things we want is if we are in government. Why do you

say that Mr Corbyn doesn't think he can do it? Why is he bothering to

stand for leadership again? I saw him be asked five times on Channel 4

if you really wanted to be Prime Minister and he didn't answer it.

I've seen him in the Shadow Cabinet opposite me in the last several

months offering scant leadership, not discussing the DWP issues. The

truth is, Jeremy and I worked together for some extent, but we had

one meeting in 11 months. I asked to meet on several occasions and he

wasn't available. A couple more points on this before moving onto

particular policies. Good evening, Owen. Could you explain to me a

specific policy, a Labour policy, that you would ASBO is too which is

completely and utterly different to Jeremy? -- you would espouse two. I

would want to remain in the European Union. Jeremy has wanted to leave

for 45 years. I don't believe we should trigger article 50, Jeremy

says we should trigger it immediately. I think we should be

members of the single market, even if we leave, and Jeremy disagrees, a

fundamental difference. That takes us to a question we have on this

exact subject from Robert Barnes. Should there be a second referendum

on EU membership or the terms of our Brexit negotiations? That's the

proposal Owen Smith put. I think we have to negotiate with the European

Union on the terms of exit. We have to recognise, regrettable as they

are, the results of the referendum. We have to make sure we have access

to European markets for manufactured goods. We have to make sure we have

protection of workers and consumer rights, paternity and maternity

leave, and other environmental protection is gained through

membership of the European Union. And we have to have that positive

relationship with Europe meaning the ability to sell our goods. Do you

want to remain in the single market if possible? A single market if

possible, and I think it probably is, that means we would have to be

prepared to negotiate trade relations with other countries, but

crucially 70% of our exports go to Europe already and it makes a lot of

sense to get on with negotiating now. I also hope continued

membership of the European investment bank, I think that's

important. In other trade treaties, such as with the United States, I'm

very sceptical of the transatlantic trade investment partnership and the

agenda that goes with that. APPLAUSE I would want us to develop trade

relations that empower democratic government, don't undermine it and

give power to global corporations as I believe TTIP would do. What is

your belief on controlling immigration, where some Labour

voters were uncertain on what you thought. Non-European immigration is

already subject to a great deal of control. EU free movement of people

is an issue that comes directly with market access. The points I was

making throughout the referendum campaign was that we should sign the

amendments for the workers directive to prevent the undercutting of wages

by groups of workers brought in from different countries to work in

Britain, and that we should try to protect them and their conditions.

But communities that have been greatly affected by an influx of

people coming into work should be funded properly through a migrant

impact fund. In fact, Gordon Brown's government introduced that but the

Tories abolished it, so we should have support for those communities.

The country voted out. Owen Smith says it's not the end of the story.

I say we have to know what Brexit means. Theresa May says Brexit means

a Brexit but this week shows the Tories don't have a clue. David

Davis says we are leaving the single market, as Jeremy has agreed.

Theresa May says it doesn't. Earlier it meant ?350 million per week for

the NHS and that was a lie. They said there would be points-based

immigration. They said we would have trade deals done and dusted with

Australia and America in a matter of months and those countries say it

could be years before we have those deals in place. My simple message to

the Labour movement, we have to stand up to the Tories, oppose them

properly, hold them to account, negotiate hard alongside them and

determine what Brexit will really mean. If it means worse living

standards for the British people, less money for the NHS, less

workers' rights, less environmental protection, we should either have a

general election with Labour arguing we should go back in, or potentially

a second referendum and test the actual deal, not what we were

promised, which was clearly a lie, but what the Tories are actually

going to deliver. I feel they will use these excuses. Nigel Lawson said

this week that they would finish Thatcher's revolution. That's what

they have in mind and it would be an ugly, hard Brexit for Britain and

places like Oldham would suffer. Unless I misunderstood, you said you

wanted Labour to go into the next election saying the party policy

would be to ignore the Brexit vote and go back into the EU Busted

exactly. We need to find out what it is. -- into the EU? Exactly. We

don't know where we are going. You do know where you're going, you want

to go back in! I hope we are. I think we should be strong about that

because I've always believed that the best things about the European

Union, the ability to safeguard workers' rights... Did you vote for

the referendum to happen? We all voted for it. And you don't accept

the result? My view is we don't know what we were voting for. We were

lied to about 350 million, Theresa May says Brexit means Brexit. We

shouldn't give them a blank cheque on this. Jeremy is giving them a

free ride. I say to hold them to account and find out what is really

on offer. If it's worse for the people of Oldham then of course

Labour should put in a manifesto that we would improve the

livelihoods of the people of Oldham. And if that means voting to go back

into the EU? Yes we should. The referendum has delivered a decision.

It might not be the decision we wanted, and I think it's up to

Parliament to work with that. I want to protect the conditions we have

gained in Europe. I want market access within Europe, and one of the

points I made during the campaign was that the EU needed to reform, it

was proposing privatisation across the continent, and was bringing in

unpleasant ideas about how national governments should run their

economies. I think we need to negotiate a good trading arrangement

with Europe, protect those conditions and give us market

access. Let's go back to Robert Barnes who asked the question.

What's your view of what you've heard? I totally disagree with Owen

Smith. More than 17 million people voted to leave the European Union,

and if you were leader the Labour Party would want to take is back in.

That isn't what 17 million people voted for. We may not know the terms

of the negotiation, but what would you do if the remain side had won

and the leave side wanted a second referendum. It's hypocritical to say

you want a second referendum. The country wanted out. Abide by that.

The lady up there. To Jeremy, it's fine saying you were there debating

Brexit during the referendum, but we didn't hear that on the doorstep

from you at all. APPLAUSE What do you mean? That the

referendum could have been won if he had spoken out more? I think so, to

get those extra votes, definitely. We put the case to remain and

reform. We didn't win the referendum, obviously. We have to

work with the results of it. I did campaign for Remain. I campaigned to

remain and reform the European Union. 65%, on opinion polls, of all

Labour voters, voted to remain. How did 45% of Labour voters think the

party backed Brexit? 45? 45% thought the party Labour act Brexit. --

backed Brexit. The attempt to impose privatisation on the railway

services across Europe... I don't think the European Union is perfect.

I don't think anybody thinks the European Union is perfect. What

about her argument, it's not the moment to be saying those things,

but stay in, loudly and clearly. If we said everything in European Union

was perfect I suspect we would have got less votes to remain than the

other way round. The man in the blue shirt. I voted Ukip in the last two

elections. If the Labour Party is going to get anywhere it's got to

get those Ukip votes back to itself. I'm faced with a situation as a

voter where we have a gentleman here, should he managed to overcome

the democratically elected leader of the Labour Party, he will then

attempt to overcome the decisions of the country that we should leave the

European Union. Where are we supposed to take our vote? And where

is our opposition? We have Theresa May now saying we don't want a

points system for immigration. Yes we do, that's what we voted for. She

said that's not what people want, but it's what the people do want.

Why isn't the opposition screaming this? They are hiding behind wanting

to go back into the European Union. That's not what we want and not what

we voted for. May I put a point to you, thank you for your question. Do

you think we should have an effective trading relationship with

Europe? Yes we should. We had that before we joined the European Union.

We had arrangements with America as well. It took three days to send

troops to die for America, and they say it will take nine years to come

up with a trade deal. Where are our politicians? We've had the European

Union for so long that you forgotten how to make decisions and represent

your country. What made you vote Ukip and leave

Labour? I simply wanted out of the European Union. You did say you

voted Labour before? Yes, I always vote. I am the older generation.

Don't you agree there has to be an effective trading relationship with

Europe, and don't you recognise that 2 million British people also live

in other parts of Europe? So we have two except that there is a very

close, often personal relationship with twin families here and families

all across Europe. And a lot of European National is that live in

this country work extremely hard and help to run our health and education

service and many other services. Do you want complete freedom of

movement? I supported freedom of movement but I was and still am

concerned about the level of undercutting of wages. Look at

Sports Direct in places like that. There has to be much tougher Labour

regulations in Britain and there has to be an end to undercutting across

Europe where they try and destroy industrywide agreements. I

understand, but that is a different point. Is what you are saying that

if we had proper minimum wage here, there would be less of a drag of

people coming into Britain and you want about, or you want open

borders? It will also have to be better wages and conditions in other

parts of Europe. Isn't this pie in the sky, compared with the immediate

possibility of reducing immigration, which you know was not popular among

Labour voters? I ask people to be realistic about what European

workers actually do in Britain, the number that help to run our vital

services, and the effects on 2 million British people living in

other parts of Europe. Owen Smith. I think the question revealed what I

was saying, which is that we don't know what we really voted for

because we do not have the points waste system you were talking about,

we do not have the extra money for the NHS. And I remain concerned that

the Tories will use this as an excuse to make us worse off as

working people in this country. And I don't think the Labour Party

should be Sangwan about that. Even if people voted to leave, I think

they voted with an idea of what Britain would look like after we

left. At the moment that is not clear, and I am very clear that the

Labour Party should be being a much more powerful opposition. How can we

go through two Prime Minister's Questions and not mention Brexit,

the biggest issue that has faced our country in generations, and the

biggest illustration that we, our leader right now, is not holding

Theresa May and the Tories to account.

APPLAUSE A couple of quick points and then we

will move on. The EU referendum seems to have proven that the core

voting block of the Labour Party, the working class, the Everyman that

Labour is supposed to represent, want something else. They want Ukip,

Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, they want to nationalism, not

immigration. How is Labour going to change? Are we going to stick to

these progressive values, or are we going to reflect the values that

people seem to want? I think what they want is investment. Can you

answer his definition? Is he right or wrong? I am not sure the answer

is nationalism. In many areas there have been traditional Labour voters.

You can overlay a map and see where the biggest effect of austerity have

been, the biggest appeal of Ukip has been, the biggest Brexit vote has

been, the biggest loss of industrial jobs. The answer to dealing with

those things is for a Labour government to invest more, which is

why I have talked about the need for a new deal, ?200 billion worth of

borrowing to invest in those areas. If we invest in them, some of the

pressures people feel and the concerns they have about immigration

could be dealt with and dissipated. Don't you think you are insulting

the intelligence of voters, saying they have been hoodwinked? If you

say that, everyone who votes Conservative is hoodwinked, too.

They were clearly hoodwinked about 350 million quid for the NHS because

that is not coming. Can you restate your point to Jeremy Corbyn? Calling

for a second referendum seems quite hypocritical. I am in favour of

Remain, in fact I'm leaning towards Owen Smith because he wants to

remain in the European Union. But the idea that democracy should be

done again because we did not like the result is wrong and doesn't make

sense. APPLAUSE

It is an advisory referendum. You can ignore it, or you can accept the

results. Ignoring it is an option but don't go through the facade of a

second referendum. That does not make sense. I am not calling for a

second referendum. Surely, the issue is security for people, security of

work, security of education, security of a growing economy, which

comes about if Labour is able to offer an alternative which is about

investment, is about collecting the uncollected taxes, about building

that houses that are necessary, rather than subsidising the private

rented market. All those kind of issues are surely those that are

actually very popular, not just with people in a difficult situation, but

with everyone across the country who wants to live in a country of social

justice rather than division. Isn't there some support for that idea? I

think there is. If I got a fiver for everyone with their hand up I would

be a rich man by the end of the programme. I will come to a woman.

As you know, 16 and 17-year-olds did not have the right to vote in the

referendum. I want to know what you have to say to young people who feel

this decision was made for them and how you intend to engage them.

APPLAUSE I would say 16 and 17-year-old is

absolutely should have had the right to vote in this election. I would

extend that right in all referendums and elections to 16 and

17-year-olds. We might have seen a different result if we had done

that. I do not think it is anti-democratic to say, let's get to

the end of the process, when we know what is really on offer from the

Tories, as opposed to what they promised, and at that point allow

the British people to either rubber-stamp the deal, possibly at a

general election, rather than a second referendum, or reject it. I

think we will move on to another subject. Can I quickly answer?

16-year-olds should have the right to vote. We tried to get it included

but were unfortunately not successful. I think we should

include in the negotiations the need for universities to maintain the

closest possible relationship with European universities. There are

already signs that that is in danger of breaking down, and I think all

students should have access to the Rasmus project, so we continue that

close, good relationship of young people from all over Europe coming

together. That is something that is a plus for all of us. Thank you for

your question. APPLAUSE

Jeremy Corbyn supports scrapping Trident, Owen Smith supports talks

with so-called Islamic State. Why should I take either of you

seriously on security? Why should he take either of you seriously on

security? Who wants to go on this first? I did not say we should have

talks with Islamic State. I did not say that. What I said was that the

chances were we would never be able to negotiate with Islamic State,

that they are a death cult. At some point, for us to resolve this, we

will need to get people round the table from Isis, you said.

APPLAUSE You have not read the first part in

which I said we would not be negotiating with Islamic State. In

the second part of my answer, having been interrupted by the presenter, I

went on to say that in my experience, as someone who worked on

the peace process in Northern Ireland for three years, all peace

process is eventually dealt with by all parties coming together, but

only, of course, once all parties have pronounced violence and sued

for peace and sought to be part of the peace process. Now, the chances

are, everybody can see, Isis are never going to fall into that

category, are they? They are never going to want to sue for peace. The

chances are, therefore, they will need to be defeated militarily

before there can be peace. But if, whatever Isis is, if Isis were to

renounce violence, then of course you would want to make sure there

was a peace process in the Middle East dealing with that, and we

should all want that. But it was a slight misrepresentation of what I

said. Do you agree with his position? I have all is said I would

not negotiate with Isis. I want to see a political solution in Syria,

which means involving all the countries in the region and the

urgent negotiation of a rapid ceasefire to get aid in, urgent

negotiation to support and help refugees, and a copper hence if plan

to bring about peace across the whole region.

APPLAUSE -- a comprehensive plan.

The other part, you want to scrap Trident. Parliament voted

effectively on replacement of the Trident nuclear weapons system and

the submarines that go with it. To ask the question back, under what

circumstances would anyone use a nuclear weapons? We know that if

they nuclear weapons was ever used anywhere in the world, the

consequences to the environment, the economy and human life are

absolutely catastrophic. There are many in the military that do not

want Trident replaced and would rather see the resources spent on

more conventional issues, and dealing with issues of terrorism and

cyber security. 187 countries around the world do not have nuclear

weapons. We are signatories of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and

I think we should adhere to our requirements under that, which is to

take steps towards disarmament. APPLAUSE

You have a crazed dictator in the Far East, currently strengthening

his nuclear deterrent. The Chinese thought that he would weaken in a

couple of years. Clearly they were wrong. We have the situation in

Russia as well. You can't play games with this, Jeremy. Think about it.

Nobody is playing games. We are serious about this and I am sure you

are, to bring about a peaceful world. Do nuclear weapons help do

that? Can we not put as much pressure on -- as possible on China

about North Korea to try and bring about removing nuclear weapons from

the Korean Peninsula, in the same way that we have managed to bring

about nuclear weapons free zones in a number of areas, including Central

Asia, Africa and Latin America, and now the discussions about an Arctic

nuclear free zone? Surely there has to be a space to go forward on

bringing about nuclear disarmament. We have managed to ban chemical

weapons by agreement. We have managed to ban cluster bombs by

agreement. Surely we can work really hard at that by giving meaning to

what the Labour government of the 60s achieved, which was the nuclear

Non-Proliferation Treaty. APPLAUSE

I am someone who believes in multilateral disarmament. I want to

get rid of nuclear weapons across the world. The difference between us

is how we do it. Jeremy things we do it by unilaterally getting rid of

hours and using moral persuasion to get America and Russia to get rid of

theirs thereafter. I think that is naive. I don't think that is likely

to happen. Other countries have pursued that course and got rid of

their nuclear weapons and Russia and America held onto theirs. I also

think we have to be incredible serious about our duty as a Labour

government in waiting to keep this country safe. And the world feels a

more dangerous place to me than it has done pretty much any point in my

lifetime. I don't think now is the time for us to get rid of our

nuclear deterrent. I think it is time for us to get Labour back into

power in order to make the argument for multilateral disarmament across

the world. APPLAUSE

A number of other questions. I will take a scattering of them. The

Jewish community is very worried about the state of the Labour Party

at the moment. What is your plan to root out anti-Semitism? What do you

mean? Most Jews do not feel safe on the streets, and there have been

anti-Semitic reports in the Labour Party and they have done nothing to

try and eliminate that. The young man is right, unfortunately. The

Jewish community has traditionally looked to Labour to represented. We

have been the farty they felt closest to their views.

Unfortunately, right now it is only 8% of the Jewish community voting

Labour and that is a big decline in recent months and years. We have

seen anti-Semitism in our party. I don't think we have been strong

enough in speaking out against that and it has diminished our capacity

to speak out against it in the country. If it is not the Labour

Party is speaking against racism and anti-Semitism and being heard in

Britain, nobody else will do it. The answer has to be that we have to

have zero tolerance for it in the Labour Party. We have to make sure

that anybody found guilty of anti-Semitism or any racism has no

place in the Labour Party. Any difference between you two on this?

Yes, Jeremy has not been strong enough in speaking out about it. The

report from Shami Chakrabarti is not viewed by the Jewish community as

being adequate, is not thought to have taken the issue seriously, and

I think we need a new review and a much more detailed, more

high-powered review to look at the problem we have in Labour and to

deal with it. When I became leader I understood a

number of people had been suspended from the party before I became

leader. I received reports of anti-Semitic remarks and behaviour

at certain party events and I am well aware of the rise of

anti-Semitism across Britain and Europe. The first point,

anti-Semitism is absolutely and totally unacceptable anywhere in our

society, and our party. The second point, I did ask Shami Chakrabati,

the former director of Liberty to undertake an investigation, and I

asked her to do it quickly so I could be in a position to put a

statement to the national executive and put proposals to the conference

to deal with issues of suspension and anti-Semitism in the party. We

launched that report, and it obviously should be subject to

review at a later stage to see how it's getting on. We have to say to

everybody in the Labour Party, this is a safe place to be. It's a

welcoming party to be, of people of all faiths, of all religions, to

come to our party and work together to achieve the kind of social

justice... APPLAUSE Your own Labour MP Ruth Smeaton said

that you failed to intervene, and it was final proof when she was heckled

at the meeting, final proof for me that you are unfit to lead and a

Labour Party under your stewardship cannot be a safe space for British

Jews. I'm very disappointed Ruth would say that. She was subject to

some appalling abuse earlier this week and last weekend. I send my

support, sympathy and solidarity to her, as I would anybody is subject

to that kind of abuse. I do not accept any kind of racist abuse in

any form or forum. She has been subject to abuse and Ruth is

currently being protected by the police, so serious is the abuse she

has been subjected to. The point she makes and the point other members of

the Jewish community have made, under Jeremy's leadership, we have

seen people coming into the Labour Party from the hard left of

politics, bringing anti-Semitic attitudes into the party. That is

not acceptable. Who are you talking about? I think there are people on

the far left flooding into the Labour Party. That's their word not

mine. The AWL, the Alliance of workers liberty, said a couple of

weeks ago that they would flood into the Labour Party. Other people from

hard left groups have come into Labour. I saw a tweet recently from

Jeremy's... Purporting to be from Jeremy's team to a hard left group

saying that you are welcome to come to Jeremy's rallies, just leave the

flags and banners at home. The reason for that, we have seen some

of those flags and banners at some of Jeremy's rallies. Unfortunately,

some of those people are bringing a attitude into the party from the

hard left. When you say the hard left, the Labour Party as a

left-wing party. Are you saying these people shouldn't be allowed

in? People coming in from the AWL and SWP, these people who have not

been prescribed as not being members of the Labour Party, not being able

to join. Some of the ways people are trying to get into the party,

advocating Jeremy. Are you saying he's allowing it or advocating it? I

think some people around Jeremy are absolutely encouraging it and that

there is no doubt. I'm sure we can agree on two things. Firstly, that

all of us together are going to make sure that we defeat any aspects of

anti-Semitism within our party and society. On that I'm sure we are

absolutely agreed, yes? We are agreed but I'm not sure you are

entirely committed to it. Owen, that is a completely unfair way of saying

it. I have spent my life opposing racism in any form, as have you.

APPLAUSE I stand here, and many people on the

left... Many people on the hard left of our party who have been alongside

you over many years do associate anti-Zionist, anti-imperialist,

antique anti-Israel perspective. I don't think you have been strong

enough in speaking out against them and distancing yourself. We are all

opposed to anti-Semitism and any form of racism in our society. That

is what the core of our party is about. It was a statement put to the

national executive that was unanimously agreed. Some of your

Jewish Labour MPs do not feel the Labour Party under your leadership

is a safe place. I support them in their right to their identity and

what they say. I support them when they say they are abused, just as I

would support anyone else who is abused. Just as you would. They

don't feel that support. The young man who asked that in the first

place? Jeremy says he's antiracism but he supports groups such as Hamas

who call for the death of all Jews. No, I do not support Hamas, as you

know. I have met people from Hamas. Do I agree with them? No. I think

there is a chance of one day of getting a peace agreement between

Palestine and Israel. I believe that and I want it to happen. Following

on from the gentleman's question, a lot of members of the Muslim

community also do not feel safe on the street. Islamophobia is an up

and coming issue affecting many people in this country. Definitely.

You say definitely, but you endorsed the Prevent strategy. Especially

after many of the terrorist atrocities around the world. The

backlash, the Muslim community, there are hate crimes against them.

There are women who want to wear a headscarf who don't feel safe to

leave the house. My question to you is, what will you do to make it

safer for Muslims, as well as the Jewish community, apart from

endorsing the Prevent programme, which virtually everybody is

against. I hate to say it, but you are wrong. What I said was, when

Prevent was started in 2005 under the Labour government, was designed

to try to better integrate people who felt isolated in the Muslim

community into wider society. It clearly hasn't worked. It wasn't

working well under Labour, and has now been completely subverted by the

Tories and is seen by many people as a racist project. So why do you want

to increase the funding? I want to increase the funding in order to

change it. How would you change it? By taking it back to what it was

meant to be at the beginning, a scheme that was designed to

integrate people. It has to be a scheme that was designed to mitigate

against radicalism, and make sure the Muslim community feel fully

integrated and celebrated in our community. All of us want that in

our country. I'm certain it up I was leader of the Labour Party it would

be my policy. We only have five minutes left. I would like to say

something to him. Moving on from Prevent, don't you think we should

actually build a much stronger sense of community cohesion among all

faiths and groups, and generate a sense of antiracism in society. The

danger is it isolates the Muslim community, targets young Muslims and

expect teachers to report on them if they think they are going in a bad

direction. Instead we should bring communities together. That bothers

me about it. What bothers me as much is the growth of hate crime and

racist violence on the streets of this country. We have to unite

together to oppose all of that. APPLAUSE

I want quick answers to this question. Our junior doctors right

to go on strike and do you support them? It's a yes or no. They have

every right to go on strike but I hope the government will, even now,

engage in proper negotiations with the BMA, proper negotiations with

junior doctors who are the lifeblood of our National Health Service. They

do not want to withdraw labour, they want to support our NHS. The problem

is Jeremy Hunt. The question wasn't do they have the right to strike,

the question was are they right to strike? They felt they were forced

into it. They have withdrawn the strike they planned because they

hoped to get negotiations going and they are hoping the government will

make some progress on it. I hope the government is listing because those

doctors are crucial to our health service. Owen Smith? I would also

defend their right to go on strike. I think the strike is potentially

dangerous which is why they said they would call off the five-day

strike they were planning. I completely understand the way they

feel about our NHS. ?2.5 billion in debt in our country. A, maternity

units closing down. The Tories undermining the NHS at every turn.

That's why we need a Labour government to reinvest again and I

would invest 60 billion over a five-year parliament. A lot of solid

political questions. Eight an intriguing question from Suzy

Robertson. My dad is a retired bus driver and was proud to receive an

MBE from the Queen for services to trade unions. What's your view on

the monarchy? Jeremy Corbyn. I'm glad he received an honour, well

done to him, but I just don't think serving politicians should receive

an honour. That was not the question. The question was, what's

your view the monarchy? I'm I thought the view was on the honours?

No, what's your view on the monarchy? I'm not campaigning on the

issues of the monarchy, I'm campaigning on the issues of

democracy in our society. I'm in favour of retaining the economy. I

think the Queen does a great job and I'm sure your father was very

pleased to get the award. Good on him. Patrick Morrell, very brief,

please. How would you heal the divisions in the Labour Party, and

as a winner would you offer a post to the winner, and as loser would

you serve under the winner? I think we have that answered. I want the

party to come together. I want us to end the election campaign, agree on

our general political direction on austerity, social justice and those

things we agree on. Of course I would be delighted to work with Owen

Smith. Would you offer him a post? I've already done it. I think he

should be president or chairman of the party. It doesn't exist! We end

where we started. Our time is up, I'm afraid. Thank you both very much

indeed. Question Time will be

in Salisbury next week, with Education Secretary Justine

Greening for the Conservatives, Labour's Shadow Chancellor John

McDonnell, and Tony Blair's former Director

of Communications Alastair Campbell. BOOING

Hold it. The following week we'll be

in Sutton Coldfield. If you would like to come along,

go to our website, or call

0330 123 99 88. Thanks to Jeremy Corbyn,

Owen Smith, and the audience. From Oldham, until next

Thursday, goodnight.