Browse content similar to 02/02/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight we're in Wallasey on Merseyside. | :00:00. | :00:15. | |
The former coalminer, now Conservative Party Chairman, | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
The Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who nominated | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
Jeremy Corbyn for leader in 2015, Rebecca Long Bailey. | :00:25. | :00:29. | |
Founder of the counter-extremism campaign Quilliam, Maajid Nawaz. | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
Lord Sugar's adviser on The Apprentice for a decade | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
and now host of Countdown, Nick Hewer. | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
And the co-editor of the website The Conservative | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
As ever, you can join the debate on Facebook, | :00:44. | :01:01. | |
You can push the red button and see what else is being said. Our first | :01:02. | :01:22. | |
question from Christian Coventry. Should Trump's state visit to the UK | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
be blocked in light of his immigration ban? Patrick McLoughlin? | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
No. We disagree with the executive order he issued last week, but he is | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
President of the United States. The United States is the most important | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
trading country for us and I think it would be wrong to withdraw the | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
invite after it has been extended to him. Rebecca Long Bailey. History | :01:48. | :01:59. | |
will judge us by our actions on this and we are right to foster the | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
special so-called special relationship with America. They are | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
our best friend, but do you know what best friends do? They tell each | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
other the truth in a respectful way, and that is what we should have done | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
this week. We weren't enough off the mark. | :02:16. | :02:15. | |
APPLAUSE What would you have the Prime | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
Minister do? Say, remember that invitation, it | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
doesn't count any more? It is inappropriate to condone Donald | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
Trump's values. The Muslim ban he put forward was divisive and | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
completely irrational. It was done on Holocaust Memorial Day of all | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
days. One quote has haunted me since last week in light of what has | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
happened. It is a quote from Primo Levy, it Holocaust survivor. He said | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
that monsters exist but they are too few in number to be truly dangerous. | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
More dangerous are the common men, the functionaries who are ready to | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
believe an actor without asking questions. Now was the time we | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
needed to ask questions. Laura Perrins. Of course the invite should | :03:04. | :03:12. | |
not be withdrawn. President Trump has not done anything wrong. What | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
his first moral and constitutional duty is is to protect the citizens | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
of the United States. That is what this measure does. It is not | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
anti-Muslim, it is anti-terrorist. Seven states, a list that President | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
Obama had already brought up. I have a really serious moral issue with | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
this measure being compared to the Holocaust, and I think it is | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
important to draw the distinction. The Holocaust was state agencies | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
acting against their own citizens, rounding up their own citizens and | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
liquidise in them, men, women and children. What the President of the | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
United States is doing is protecting his own citizens by saying to | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
foreign citizens, first of all, you don't have a right to come here, and | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
secondly, I am not happy with the vetting procedure that is in place, | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
so we will pause any bees you have for 90 days, in order to protect all | :04:12. | :04:18. | |
of the United States citizens, including the 3 million Muslims | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
there. I think what Labour are doing is essentially standing on the | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
graves of 7 million Jewish deaths to make a political point. | :04:26. | :04:26. | |
APPLAUSE I will come to you. | :04:27. | :04:39. | |
My question is for Laura. I am an Iraqi who lived in the United | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
Kingdom for 15 years. The Kurdish people have been placed around the | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
world, and have been the most effective force fighting Isis. The | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
Kurdish people carry Iraqi passports. The ban affects the | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
Kurdish people that Donald Trump said are the most effective force | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
fighting Isis. How did you feel about the ban when it was announced? | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
In my opinion, Donald Trump, as President of the United States, is | :05:09. | :05:10. | |
allowed to do whatever decision he does. But he cannot say, you are at | :05:11. | :05:18. | |
the front of fighting Isis, the most effective nation fighting terrorism | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
one minute, and the next minute say, you are in the same box with them, | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
categorised the same as them. APPLAUSE | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
Do you think he should come on a state visit to Britain as a guest of | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
the Queen? I don't think so. In the third row. | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
People who want to come to America have to get a Visa. That means they | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
are a temporary citizen of the country. If he is invoking the right | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
of these temporary citizens, how can that be right? So what is your view | :05:55. | :06:02. | |
about the state visit? He should not come, he has been divisive and | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
institutionally racist. Nick Hewer. There are two parts. The invitation | :06:08. | :06:14. | |
and the ban. Theresa May rushed off to Washington, first, special | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
relationship, let's invite him, let's capture his heart, make sure | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
that we have this great relationship. Donald Trump is a | :06:21. | :06:27. | |
shark. He doesn't know what he did yesterday, he is not altogether sure | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
what he is doing today. He is eating for the day. If she thinks that she | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
has a deal, she is sorely mistaken. Regarding the ban, I don't know how | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
many people read Patrick Cockburn's piece, a great journalist, | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
recognised as an authority on this. He said that Trump has turned | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
himself into the greatest recruiting Sergeant for Isis and Al-Qaeda. | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
Because what he has done, with that long winded signature of his, is to | :06:59. | :07:06. | |
turn every Muslim in the world and place them where they stand in the | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
eyes of the greatest nation in the world. They think less of the United | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
States now, and that in inexorable elites to recruit joining, rather | :07:14. | :07:25. | |
than fighting Isis. That is my view. There are two parts, I agree with | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
Nick. I agree with Nick, says a Lib Dem. There are two parts, the ban | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
and the state visit. First, it is important to acknowledge the fact of | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
the aftermath of what has happened in Quebec. Six worshippers were | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
killed in a mosque, a couple of days after completely irresponsible | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
noises were made by the President of the most powerful country in the | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
world. Those six are real human beings. They were human beings, | :07:51. | :08:01. | |
killed while performing an act of worship by far right supremacist who | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
decided, being a fan of this sort of rhetoric, that these sorts of | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
people, two of them immigrants to Canada, need to be eliminated off | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
the face of the earth. Consequences of language are very real. Trump | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
does not call it a Muslim ban, but all of his rhetoric, up until the | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
election itself, was using the words, we are going to stop Muslims | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
coming into this country. And the executive order itself excludes | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
Christians. So you would forgive people be using words like a Muslim | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
ban, even though it is not technically correct. Let's also not | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
dance on the grave of those six on a technicality by saying it is not a | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
Muslim ban. Let Laura speak. You seem to know a lot about a crime | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
that was just committed. It is horrific, but you have no evidence | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
to say what you have just said. About what? The terrible crime in | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
Quebec. What part is wrong? Let me finish. I think she is saying that | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
the cause being what Donald Trump did is not proven. You have said | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
that that there is no evidence. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
world. This affects seven countries. Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya and | :09:22. | :09:29. | |
Yemen. They were designated by a Obama as terrorist enclaves. The | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
President has a constitutional and moral right to protect US citizens | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
from the real terrorist threat coming from those countries. To say | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
otherwise is merely grandstanding, and saying things you have no | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
evidence for at all. Obama noted those countries on a specific threat | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
at that time. None of the national is from those countries have ever | :09:54. | :10:01. | |
cost any lives. Yes, they have. Excuse me, Mohammed Atta and his | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
pals were Egyptian and Saudis but they are not on the list. | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
APPLAUSE Finish your point and I will come | :10:08. | :10:17. | |
back to you. Perhaps we should be on the list, | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
because Robert Reid was crossing the Atlantic, trying to explode his shoe | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
and take the aircraft down. Britain is not an unstable country. All of | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
those seven, other than Iran, our war-torn countries. Britain is a | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
stable country. The fact that Britain and all the European Muslims | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
are not included, and the vast majority of the world's Muslims are | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
not included goes to show how wrong it is to say it is a muslin ban. It | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
is an anti-terrorist ban and something needs to be done about | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
Isis. They are a barbaric organisation and there is no way | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
they should be allowed... I am probably the only one on this panel | :10:59. | :11:05. | |
who works every single day... I am probably the only one on this panel | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
who has full-time, every day, trying to do something about Isis. The | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
seven countries named have not been responsible for any home-grown | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
attack across Europe. Can I actually finished the point I was going to | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
make? I think everybody has heard a good deal from you two. I would like | :11:23. | :11:30. | |
to hear their comments. While I agree with all that has been said | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
about Donald Trump, the invitation has been issued by Her Majesty The | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
Queen. Surely we have to go along with her invitation and access Mr | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
Trump and welcome him, even though we don't agree with it? | :11:44. | :11:44. | |
APPLAUSE And you, in the middle. | :11:45. | :11:52. | |
You mention the fact that maybe we should be on the ban. I am on it, | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
because as well as those seven countries that you have quoted, add | :11:58. | :12:06. | |
another nine onto that. They ban any person who has a Jewish passport. | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
Because I actually have a Jewish stamp and I went to Israel. I am not | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
allowed to go to at least eight of those countries you have named, so | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
the ban already exists for other people. So have we got any right to | :12:20. | :12:30. | |
be lecturing others? It is clearly racist and I agree | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
with the panellist who says this encouraged the attack on the | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
innocent worshippers in the mosque in Canada. A lot of respectable | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
politicians like Trump and some closer to home have blood on their | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
hands when they make statements which stir people up and appear to | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
give them permission to attack Muslims and immigrants. I think it | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
is a disgrace. If Trump does come here, I can guarantee there will be | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
such a turnout to let him know he is not welcome. It will be the biggest | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
demonstration we have seen for years. | :13:02. | :13:02. | |
APPLAUSE What is your comment on what the | :13:03. | :13:10. | |
former head of the Foreign Office said, that ministers, you are in the | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
Cabinet, have put the Queen in a very difficult position by inviting | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
Trump here at this time and with such alacrity? | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
You are talking about Lord Ricketts. Look, Donald Trump is President of | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
the United States. It is the start of his presidential time in office. | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
He has just been elected. Nick just said the United States is one of the | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
greatest countries in the world. It is essential that we have a good | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
relationship. And by having that relationship, the Prime Minister was | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
able to instruct both the Foreign Secretary and the Home Secretary to | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
ensure that the ban did not apply to anybody with a British passport. So | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
we did have influence, we will have influence. It is no good everybody | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
throwing up their hands and somehow saying the American people have got | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
it wrong. The American people elected President Trump and we have | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
two respective as a head of state or a very important country and we have | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
to work with him. I remember not dissimilar kinds of thinking when | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
Ronald Reagan first became President of the United States, the horror and | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
shock that was being exposed by many people. He turned out to be one of | :14:23. | :14:29. | |
America's greatest presidents. You are predicting that for Donald | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
Trump? I am not predicting anything. He has been President for less than | :14:35. | :14:43. | |
ten days. You have been counting. Ten days, 240 hours. We must move | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
on. We're in Torquay next | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
week, and the week after Dean Marshall, please, your | :14:56. | :15:10. | |
question? Should the 114 MPs who voted against the Brexit Bill look | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
for new jobs? Should those who voted against the | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
implementation of Article 50 yesterday be looking for new jobs on | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
the grounds presumably your view is that they defied the will of the | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
British people in the referendum. Rebecca? I think those MPs in many | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
cases have made agonising decisions, especially if they were in remain | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
seats. Ultimately my view is that I believe in democracy, I didn't | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
campaign to leave the EU, I campaigned to remain but I respect | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
the will of the people. We had a democratic referendum and we need to | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
respect that referendum. That is why I voted to trigger Article 50 | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
yesterday. We have to realise that this issue didn't just divide | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
parties and it didn't divide the Houses of Parliament, it divided | :15:59. | :16:03. | |
families and, now is the time, as politicians, whichever party we are | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
in, our job now is to unify the country and demand the best deal we | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
can possibly get that's in the interests of the people, not in the | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
interests of the wealthy elite because we have already seen | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
murmurings from Philip Hammond that he's threatening to turn us into a | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
tax haven. We want a deal that benefits communities like Wallasey | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
and like my community in Salford and Eccles that has been starved of | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
investment for decades. APPLAUSE. | :16:29. | :16:36. | |
What about the question though which is whether people should be looking | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
for new jobs by failing to - a lot was said in the House of Commons | :16:41. | :16:44. | |
about that from Ken Clarke on the Tory side for instance - they all | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
voted in favour because that was what the country decided in a | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
referendum where everybody was entitled to vote? In terms of | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
looking for new jobs, I think people made an agonising choice, they had | :16:59. | :17:00. | |
to vote in their heart and in line with what their constituency wanted | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
them to do, but the party position certainly the Labour Party position | :17:06. | :17:08. | |
was to uphold the democratic will of the people. OK. Now we'll take an | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
empathetic approach and an understandable approach to the MPs | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
that have voted against the party whip because they were put in | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
difficult positions. But I think there's a lot of discussions going | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
to be taking place over the next few weeks and we have heard the tip of | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
the iceberg when it comes to the agonising decisions that many people | :17:29. | :17:31. | |
will have to make considering Brexit. | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
Laura? I would separate your question out slightly. Anybody whose | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
constituency voted to leave and they voted against it should certainly | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
resign because they're antidemocratic and not serving their | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
own constituencies and defying the will of the people. Also anybody who | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
had a migraine or passed in a sicky note, they should deft nitly resign. | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
APPLAUSE. -- definitely resign. | :18:00. | :18:09. | |
Nick? I cried myself to sleep when Sunderland fell, I woke up with a | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
sodden pillow because I was an absolute remainor. The truth is, | :18:14. | :18:16. | |
there was a referendum and the remainers lost. That's democracy, | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
sometimes it hurts and feels like a punch on the jaw but you've just got | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
to live with it. Therefore I would absolutely agree with Rebecca | :18:26. | :18:29. | |
because, you know, we've got to shut up and we've all got to pull | :18:30. | :18:35. | |
together. I think Corbyn, and I'm not a fan, to be quite honest with | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
you, was right to put three line whip on his members and those that | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
decided to object whether they should look for another job or not | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
is up to them. But actually, when the people vote, go into a corner | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
and have a cry, then pull yourself together and go with the vote. | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
APPLAUSE. You, Sir? I think we should bear in | :19:01. | :19:09. | |
mind that MPs are not mandated, they're representatives, so | :19:10. | :19:12. | |
therefore they should act in the way that they best believe represents | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
the interests of their constituents. That will be different depending on | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
the constituency they represent. But, I think they've got to follow | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
their conscience. But if they follow their conscience, surely on the | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
basis of what we know about the position of the House of Commons | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
before the referendum, they'd have voted against Article 50? But | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
they've obviously taken into account the result of the referendum and | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
they've made a calculation based on what they feel is right in those | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
circumstances. Well some have and some haven't because some have | :19:49. | :19:51. | |
switched and some haven't. It depends on the person. I wouldn't | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
want to put myself in their mind. If I was an MP I would have voted | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
against. Patrick McLoughlin was a remainor, argued for remain didn't | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
you? Yes. How did you square your conscience with voting with the | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
Prime Minister, was that a difficult decision for you? It was | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
straightforward because I voted for a referendum. I voted for a | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
referendum and I accepted the result of the referendum and my | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
constituency almost followed the nation, it was 52 to leave and 48 to | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
stay in, so I followed what my constituents wanted. As far as MPs | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
looking for another job, a number of them are. There's already two | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
by-elections of people deserting the Labour Party. They can't get out | :20:35. | :20:42. | |
quick enough. So That's taking place in Stoke-on-Trent and Copeland. If | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
they actually voted for the referendum, then they are duty bound | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
to accept the result of the referendum and the vote for the | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
referendum was overwhelmingly in favour of it. | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
The woman up there on the left? You must be having a laugh asking me to | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
just kind of sit in a corner and cry and make do with this decision. I'm | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
a European citizen. Neither did I vote for this idiotic advisory | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
referendum that has turned my life up side down. I have an English | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
husband, I have a German English child and can now see what I do with | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
this and how I reconcile the shaking up to my identity that this | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
referendum's caused, a referendum that has been campaigned on lies on | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
exaggeration, do not listen to the experts and... | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
APPLAUSE. And now you are calling it the will | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
of the people. This was not the will of the people. This was such a | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
complex situation that should never, never have been decided like this, | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
ever. . APPLAUSE. | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
So you think the 17.5 million were deluded? I think anyone who thinks | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
that England will walk away from this divorce from the EU with a | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
better deal than they have right now is delusional, absolutely. | :21:56. | :21:56. | |
Absolutely. OK. | :21:57. | :22:05. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, between 1997 and 2007, he rebelled the most against | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
this. This is a deep sense of irony what is happening now with the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
frontbenchers rebelling against him. I don't think they should lose their | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
jobs, perhaps they should find a new political party frankly because | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
under Corbyn's leadership, I think there is a new schism, a new way of | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
dividing British politics around the remain and leave debate. Many of the | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
so-called moderate Labour MPs are not Labour any more. Labour is now a | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
left-wing party which it rightly should be and the Tories are where | :22:34. | :22:43. | |
they are on Brexit. I think those MPs who aren't happy under his | :22:44. | :22:51. | |
leadership should go. They need to start articulating a vision in a | :22:52. | :22:56. | |
post-Brexit Britain and it's un-Nat that we are still talking about the | :22:57. | :23:04. | |
past -- unfortunate. Conducting a Parliamentary debate without a white | :23:05. | :23:15. | |
paper not betraying the will of the people? Why do you think it's | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
betraying them? I feel like it's unrepresentative that these people | :23:21. | :23:24. | |
are voting on an issue that they've not been informed by certain Select | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
Committees. There's not been a certain amount of scrutiny on this | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
current situation and it's been rushed through Parliament to meet | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
this arbitrary March deadline which personally I don't believe is | :23:37. | :23:37. | |
correct. Rebecca? We got that white paper | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
today and quite frankly it wasn't worth the paper it was written on. | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
It was very vague, it was very ambiguous, it didn't tell us much | :23:48. | :23:54. | |
more than we knew already. It set out Theresa May's 12 ambiguous | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
points. There was a factual point, a bar graph, chart within the paper, | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
that stated that UK workers were going to get 14 weeks holiday. You | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
can imagine my office was beside themselves when they heard this, | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
only to find out a couple of hours later that it was a misprint and | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
it's actually 5.6 weeks. The Government can't even get its white | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
paper right, how can we even trust them to get the deal out of the EU | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
right? I want to take a question from James fits Henry, please, about | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
what actually is going on, because it refers to what happened today? In | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
view of the Bank of England's growth forecast of 2% today, what's | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
happened to Amageddon. Which Patrick, I have to remind you was | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
what your side was saying was going to happen, we were going to have | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
emergency budgets, tax increases a and all of that and none of that's | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
happened? No, and that's when the lady earlier on said that they were | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
lied to, I think both sides of the argument didn't certainly put its | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
case. Did you anticipate things were going to go fine if we voted Brexit? | :25:02. | :25:09. | |
I was concerned about whether we'd continue to get inward investment in | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
this country. What's happened since Brexit is we have continued to get | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
the inward investment. Is it all rosy from now on in your view? | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
There's going to be two years of negotiations once we have triggered | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
Article 50 and the answer to the gentleman there, the House of | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
Commons voted for the principle second reading of the Bill, there's | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
be committee stages for three days and the Bill has to go to the | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
Lord's. We haven't been short of debate and we are certainly not | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
going to be short of debate. It's about the outcome, not the debate. | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
But the gentleman made the point... We are tonne another point now, | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
whether the sun is shining and the clouds have gone, all the things you | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
feared haven't come to pass? We still have not yet exited the | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
European Union but there is no doubt that the Bank of England in its | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
forecasts were wrong, as the Governor's made clear today. He's | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
given revised growth forecasts. So look, the truth is, those of us who | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
voted to remain and I voted to remain, have got to accept that we | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
lost the debate and we lost the vote and we've now got to implement the | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
will of the British people. We know that. You can't have a referendum | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
and say, by the way, everybody got it wrong. You are arguing a | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
different point. We are arguing about what is going to happen. Nick | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
Hewer? Nothing's happened. The forecast has gone on. But the | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
reality hasn't kicked in yet. Have the prices shot up? All I'm saying | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
is, we won't know what the future holds until the deal's done with | :26:45. | :26:52. | |
Europe. So it's no surprise that people are shopping away, why | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
shouldn't they? Nothing's changed. It hasn't happened yet. Only | :26:59. | :27:06. | |
sentiment's happened. A huge amount as changed. This wasn't just a | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
civilised debate, it was a serious amount of bullying of the public in | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
Britain to stay in the EU or else, that particularly came from George | :27:18. | :27:20. | |
Osborne and, I'm afraid, Mark Carney. We were told there would be | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
a punishment budget and that didn't happen. We were told that growth | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
will collapse and that hasn't happened. Yet again, the Bank of | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
England have upped their forecast. We were told the companies would | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
flee the country and this wasn't just after we left the EU, it was | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
immediately after the referendum, we were given dark forecasts that | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
Amageddon wouldn't happen. The people were bullied, the people | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
didn't listen, they thought that the EU was in serious difficulties and | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
fought to regain their borders and they were totally right. | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
APPLAUSE. Laura, do you think some say it will | :27:59. | :28:06. | |
get tough again in two years' time and people will start to feel the | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
pinch from leaving the EU? I don't have a crystal ball and, unlike | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
certain politicians, I won't make forecasts that I don't know anything | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
about unlike George Osborne. Britain is in a much, much stronger position | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
than the rest of continental Europe. I wish continental Europe was | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
stronger but Italy is basically bankrupt. Greece is bankrupt, Spain | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
is bankrupt. When we were out of the EU, I can guarantee you the vast | :28:37. | :28:40. | |
majority of people will see that it was a great decision for Britain, a | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
great decision for Britain. Maajid? | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
APPLAUSE. The truth is, look, and, as a | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
remainor, hands down, we lost and the truth is none of us know how | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
it's going to turn out. We shouldn't predict doom because it may turn out | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
as a success. What I see at the moment, I see a vision, Theresa | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
May's vision for Brexit and what she wants it to look like and the Prime | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
Minister wants it to look like. What I don't see is those who're still in | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
the remain camp, still beating that drum. Frankly we have to accept A | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
that we lost and B what is the post-Brexit vision that those who're | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
in the Remain camp have, for how to make sure it's a success going | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
forward, because frankly we have lost the debate. We have got to | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
accept that and there needs to be a liberal view as to what post-Brexit | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
Britain looks like, that we can then use to hold the Prime Minister to | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
account. There is no opposition at the moment. The person on the | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
gangway in white? I was voting remain. At the very last minute, I | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
changed my decision and went to leave. The reason because of that is | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
because of, I go to a supermarket and a banana is straight. I'm just | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
sick of the silly rules that come out of Europe and... Have the | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
bananas changed? If you go to Aldi they're a bit bent. It was bananas | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
what did it for you? No, it was more than bananas, it was the fact that | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
there are opportunities out there that I feel we need to see as a | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
country. And you're optimistic now, you are pleased the way you voted? I | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
am. Rebecca, last word from you in terms of all things that have | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
happened today and the economic forecast, doesn't it look much | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
better than people like you thought it would be? The point the gentleman | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
made about growth, don't be fooled, as Nick said we haven't seen | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
anything yet, Article 50's not been triggered. If you look behind the | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
growth figures, Mark Carney said our improved growth was based on | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
consumer spending and in turn that consumer spending has been fuelled | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
by household debt. That household debt is being fuelled by people | :30:56. | :30:58. | |
who're having to borrow in order to make ends meet because they're not | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
earning enough to live on. We have had a lost decade again, the bank | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
stated this, a lost decade on earnings. Even the resolution | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
foundation brought out a report saying we were on curse for the | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
biggest increase in inequality since Thatcher, so our economy is not in | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
fine shape, for a Brexit, and the Government needs to get its act | :31:20. | :31:20. | |
together as quickly on possible. The statistics show the gap is | :31:21. | :31:33. | |
narrowing, but you may be right about the future. A question from | :31:34. | :31:40. | |
Steven Smiley, please. What proposals would the panel put in | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
place to curb the millions being wasted on health tourism each year? | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
Health tourism is allegedly stacking up a bill of nearly 300 million, | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
depending on the figures you get, people coming and using the NHS and | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
not paying for it. Nick Hewer, what would you do? I think what you do, | :32:01. | :32:09. | |
actually, and I know it is hard and all the rest of it, but you have got | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
to be paid for the service you provide. If you are not entitled to | :32:14. | :32:20. | |
it as a national of this country. I remember my father years ago was on | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
holiday in France. When his appendix popped, they wouldn't operate until | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
they have the money. We thought this was very hard and unfair, but | :32:33. | :32:39. | |
actually, perhaps it was not an unrealistic thing to do. People have | :32:40. | :32:43. | |
got to pay if they are not entitled to get it free. | :32:44. | :32:44. | |
APPLAUSE Having said that, I am not | :32:45. | :32:57. | |
suggesting they should die on the operating table while someone is | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
waiting to sign the check. But somewhere in the middle. I agree | :33:01. | :33:08. | |
with Nick. It is very wrong that people are coming here to claim free | :33:09. | :33:14. | |
health when they are not entitled to it. It is important to remember that | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
it is not just a question of money. People who are living in Britain and | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
have been paying into a system are actually being denied treatment, in | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
part because of health tourism. Operations are being cancelled | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
because hospitals and hospital trusts are not doing their best to | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
regroup these costs. I don't think that is fair if you have paid into a | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
system and somebody, a citizen of a different country, comes in and | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
secures treatment they are not entitled to, morally or financially. | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
It is a system that can't continue. I think it is part of the broader | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
problem with the NHS overall. This is a small part of a much bigger | :33:58. | :34:02. | |
problem. You, sir. I agree with Nick. I was in Spain with my | :34:03. | :34:10. | |
daughter in 2001 and we had forgotten our form. She was 18 | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
months old and the only treatment they would give her was intravenous | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
fluids to keep her alive. They would not give her any medication | :34:21. | :34:26. | |
whatsoever. It took four days, and we had to pay for the accommodation | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
costs. We got it refunded at the end. Right or wrong? I think it was | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
completely wrong, especially with a child. ID checks could be of | :34:38. | :34:47. | |
beginning. Health tourism is a serious problem. I don't think | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
withholding operations, as in this case, is the way forward. But once | :34:52. | :34:55. | |
you know they are not British, you have a way of making sure that | :34:56. | :34:59. | |
people are billed for services. This is part of a wider problem, a huge | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
funding gap in the NHS. 30 billion over the next five years just to | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
keep it where it is, let alone to improve the thing. We have to look | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
at serious reforms in a nonpartisan way. Some of the political parties | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
are playing political football with this. But do you think this health | :35:17. | :35:24. | |
tourism is a serious issue? The BBC have a documentary of a Nigerian | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
woman who ran up a bill of 330,000. Compared with the overall debt of | :35:31. | :35:36. | |
the NHS... Even if we recover all of those costs, it will not plug the | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
hole that we have coming up, a huge crisis. I would put a penny on | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
National Insurance, for example. I would pay an extra penny. | :35:46. | :35:47. | |
APPLAUSE Mentioning the Nigerian lady who ran | :35:48. | :35:56. | |
up half a million, she flew first to the United States where she was | :35:57. | :35:58. | |
turned away. They clearly spotted something we | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
didn't. And what do you feel about the issue? I will dispute what Nick | :36:06. | :36:12. | |
says about paying into the system. We pay into the system. I think | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
Laura was right on that. We don't get it for free, we pay for it. It | :36:18. | :36:26. | |
is just after January 31. We have all paid our tax bills. To your | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
right. I am proposing that if you don't pay you should not have access | :36:32. | :36:37. | |
to the NHS. If people, for instance, boys been on benefits, the family | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
has not worked for generations, should we stop them? Should we say, | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
you have not been paying in so you do not have a right for it? Surely | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
we have to look at people's need. Of course, there are some things that | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
are not emergency, where we should not offer care. But where there is | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
an emergency need, for instance with that child, or a ruptured appendix, | :37:02. | :37:09. | |
you have to deal with it. You cannot not deal with emergencies. If people | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
are coming for planned surgery, of course that is unacceptable. But if | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
people are caught ill in our country, it is right that we look | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
after them, because these are part of our British values. This is part | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
of being British. APPLAUSE | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
When I travel abroad, I take out medical insurance. | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
The cost of a flight, for an extra couple of quid, take out medical | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
insurance and that will solve the problem. The operative word was | :37:41. | :37:49. | |
"Tourism". Our NHS and our country as a whole was built on the | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
principle of fairness. Nobody thinks this is fair, per se, but what I | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
would want from the government figures as to how much it cost to | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
enforce this and how much they would recoup. We do not want hospitals | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
turned into border patrols, turning away people in severe need of urgent | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
care. Why is this issue coming up again? Last week, the government | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
were trying to blame GPs not staying open long enough for the crisis in | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
the NHS, and now we are hearing about health tourism. The NHS has | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
been stripped of funding. In 2010, the government cemented a | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
reorganisation of the NHS so big you can see it from outer space, to | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
break it up and privatise it. That is their gender, their direction of | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
travel, and the rest of us are going to suffer as a consequence. | :38:38. | :38:38. | |
APPLAUSE The Public Accounts Committee said | :38:39. | :38:53. | |
that recouping costs from foreign nationals is chaotic, in their | :38:54. | :38:55. | |
report this week. What are you going to do about it? | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
We do have two address it. A couple of points I would make, without | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
wanting to use a well worn phrase, I do agree with Nick. People in this | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
country pay for the health service. It is not free, but costs us a lot | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
of money. I do have sympathy with the gentleman who talked about his | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
experience in Spain. If someone is in urgent need, I would not like to | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
have to wait to find out if they have got cover. I think that should | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
be done and then we should recoup the money afterwards. That is the | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
way forward. I do not want to see anybody denied emergency medicine if | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
they were so in need of it. That is not the way that Britain operates | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
and it is not the way Britain will operate. As far as what Rebecca was | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
saying, we have committed to put extra money into the health service. | :39:51. | :39:57. | |
We are, which was more than what you did at the last general election. | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
4.6 billion cut from social care, 2.45 billion deficit for hospitals, | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
the worst on record so far. 600 million from mental health. The | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
Labour Party always talk about spending money, not raising money | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
and learning that money to afford services. When we came into office | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
we inherited the largest deficit of any country -- that any government | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
ever inherited. This is a bigger amount than any Labour government in | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
history. I wonder if Theresa May thinks she can get some help from | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
the Americans to help with our NHS. What do you mean? It seems she has | :40:42. | :40:48. | |
been over, and if you look at Jeremy Hunt and his plans, it does seem | :40:49. | :40:50. | |
that privatisation is knocking on the door. I think we will go on | :40:51. | :40:59. | |
because we only have... I would like two more questions. Dawn Pollitt. Do | :41:00. | :41:07. | |
we have an effective opposition in the UK? To quote Theresa May, he can | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
lead a protest, I am leading the country. He can lead a protest, I am | :41:12. | :41:18. | |
leading the country. Do we have an effective opposition? Who would like | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
to start on this and it would like to finish. Rebecca, you start. Of | :41:22. | :41:27. | |
course we have an effective opposition. Our job is to hold the | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
government to account and set out a vision of the future that another | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
world is possible. I have already outlined that our economy is | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
failing. The Government is not putting the economy first. I don't | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
agree with George Osborne very often but he illustrated in his Brexit | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
speech that Theresa May was not putting the economy first in terms | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
of Brexit negotiations. Labour has a selection of red lines. We will | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
rebuild and transform this economy, so yes, there certainly is an | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
effective opposition. Laura. It is clear that the opposition is firstly | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
hopelessly divided on the big issue of the day, Brexit, where literally | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
their MPs cannot be bothered to turn up for a vote. I don't necessarily | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
want to go back to the first issue, but it did strike me... Who could | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
not be bothered? Diane Abbott. She had a headache. She was taking part | :42:25. | :42:31. | |
in a debate earlier in the day. This is the reason there was so much | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
grandstanding and protesting on the street as opposed to voting in our | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
democratically elected parliament over Trump. They can unify over | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
Trump. They want to be the official opposition to Trump, but we have the | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
Democrats for that. You need to be the official opposition to the | :42:49. | :42:50. | |
Conservatives and you are being hopeless about it at the moment. | :42:51. | :42:51. | |
APPLAUSE I think not only is the opposition | :42:52. | :43:05. | |
in disarray, I think it is descending into puerile displays of | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
protest and shouting and in many instances preferring even in some | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
cases violence, and justifying violence on the left, instead of | :43:16. | :43:21. | |
developing serious policy solutions. Justifying violence? Whether it is | :43:22. | :43:29. | |
on campus, banning speakers, you see Barkley has been set alight today. | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
It is a terrible thing to say that we justify violence. I did not say | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
the Labour Party. You can take responsibility for it if you like. I | :43:42. | :43:45. | |
think it is descending into authoritarian displays of wanting to | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
shut down debate. One of the examples is a lack of vision, as I | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
mentioned earlier, even over what happens after Brexit. We need a | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
clear vision emanating from the Leader of the Opposition that isn't | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
there. We do not know what the alternative is to resisting Theresa | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
May's policies. We do not know what the country will look like after | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
Brexit. It is about time we started looking towards the future and | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
articulated a Liberal vision for post-Brexit written. The woman on | :44:14. | :44:23. | |
the right. -- Britain. How can the Labour Party be seen as the | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
opposition if they cannot even stand on one stance over Brexit? The woman | :44:29. | :44:36. | |
next to you. I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is totally to blame for the | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
fall of the Labour Party. It started with Ed Miliband. That is where the | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
fall of the Labour Party started. Nick Hewer. I agree. Were you a | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
Labour Party supporter before? I followed Labour since Wilson's | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
victory. I was on Andrew Neil's show, which we will not talk about. | :44:58. | :45:05. | |
Ed Miliband, his handshake was the handshake of a wet fish. And I went | :45:06. | :45:09. | |
to William Hill the next day to try to put on a bet that he would not be | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
leader of the Labour Party at the next general election and they would | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
not take the bet. I would have lost it, but I was right, absolutely | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
right. And now, sadly, and I am sorry, Rebecca, but Jeremy is not a | :45:23. | :45:30. | |
leader. Just as Miliband wasn't a leader. And talking about William | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
Hill, if I could throw in one further thing. I rang them today to | :45:34. | :45:39. | |
try to put on a bet that Trump would not see out his first term. 2-1 that | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
he would be impeached, 13-8 that he would resign. Fascinating. He will | :45:46. | :45:53. | |
serve two terms. And did you place the bet? Rotten odds. But you are | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
rich, you could have doubled your money. | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
I've been a Labour voter all my life. And now I'm in a position | :46:07. | :46:14. | |
where I'm really not sure to go. So I'm afraid it's not a good | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
opposition at the moment. The man in the white shirt? The most | :46:19. | :46:26. | |
effective opposition will be Ukip. Once Nigel Farage has been proven | :46:27. | :46:32. | |
right over Brexit. In a couple of years, he will be. That is a fine | :46:33. | :46:38. | |
endorsement of Corbyn. You, Sir, in the second row? It's a media | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
campaign against Jeremy Corbyn. I read the newspapers, watch Sky, | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
everywhere you look at it it's an attack, now they've seen to | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
withdrew, no attacks any more, don't let him fall on his own sword but I | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
don't understand the obsession. Yes OK you look and think, is he, could | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
you see him leading the country, I question whether we could have our | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
trust in him, but the attacks on him, it's just terrible. I don't | :47:09. | :47:11. | |
understand the attacks on him, where they come from, he's a decent guy | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
who is trying to look at things from a different way from the normal | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
politician who says one thing then he'll flip-flop over. Honestly, it's | :47:21. | :47:28. | |
like In The Thick Of It, honestly, it's ridiculous. | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
APPLAUSE. On the point that he made about the | :47:33. | :47:40. | |
media attacking, the Leader of the Opposition, being attacked, is it | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
fair? That is nothing new. I was in opposition when the media attacked | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
our lead, on numerous occasions. The fact of whether they are an | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
effective opposition is this, 172 Labour MPs last year had voted no | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
confidence in Jeremy Corbyn to run the Labour Party. If 172 Labour MPs | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
don't think he's suitable to run the Labour Party, how on earth is he | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
suitable to run the country as our Prime Minister? | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
APPLAUSE. We have got a position at the moment | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
where three members yesterday of the Shadow Cabinet resigned, and they've | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
not been replaced. Why, because he's running short of people to do it. | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
All the people who were in Ed Miliband's Shadow Cabinet almost run | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
away from the frontbench. I'm not bothered about whether they are an | :48:34. | :48:36. | |
effective opposition because as a Government we are going to try and | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
address those people who feel left behind as a result of the referendum | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
and we'll try to improve those standards as Theresa May has made | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
perfectly clear of the questions which we have got to address for | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
those parts of the country that feel left behind. And we will do that. | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
Thank you. Rebecca briefly please? We are an effective opposition | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
because Jeremy is a good man. If one thing came out of the Brexit vote, | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
it's that people are sick of elitist politicians that don't speak for | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
them honestly. They want somebody that delivers a bold vision and | :49:12. | :49:14. | |
Jeremy is doing that. He's delivering a future that is based on | :49:15. | :49:22. | |
paying your fair share, investing in our economy, high-paid jobs, | :49:23. | :49:25. | |
aspiration where we can have an English dream, the equivalent of the | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
American dream because at the moment there isn't one. You work your | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
fingers to the bone and you get nowhere. That's why we need to elect | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
the Labour Party as quickly as possible. | :49:36. | :49:37. | |
Right. Thank you. APPLAUSE. | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
Off the stump for a moment and to a completely different question to end | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
with from William Clements, please? Should parents will fined for taking | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
their children out of school? We'll have to be quick here. Should | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
parents be fined for taking children out of school in term time? It's | :49:55. | :49:57. | |
gone to the Supreme Court because of a case in the Isle of Wight. We | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
needn't go into the details, but the father complained, it went to the | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
High Court, then to the Supreme Court. Maajid? I impa thigh with | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
parents who can't afford to pay peak fares during the peak travel times. | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
Of course that's one of the reasons cited for why they justify doing | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
that -- sympathise. The children's needs come first frankly. Taking | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
them out of class can be disruptive. I'm not sure fines are the way | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
forward. Usually the parents travelling off peak are doing so | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
precisely because they can't afford it. I don't think fines are the way | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
forward, but there needs to be some form of disincentive. Laura? It's an | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
interesting issue. I don't think fines are necessary. I did initially | :50:46. | :50:49. | |
think the other way around. If you are signing up to go to school, you | :50:50. | :50:53. | |
are part of a school community and you don't just have a duty to your | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
own children who should be in school and should be being educated in that | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
school and I know holidays have an educational benefit, but it's really | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
important first of all that your own child is at school and secondly you | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
have a duty to the other children that are there because if your child | :51:08. | :51:11. | |
falls behind because you've taken them out to go on holiday, then it's | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
disruptive to the other children when your own children have to catch | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
up. So I don't think it's fair as a whole. School is like a family. You | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
have a duty to the school and the community. There should be | :51:29. | :51:31. | |
solidarity. You have signed up, you are sending your children there and | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
you should support each other and taking Archbishop out of school is | :51:36. | :51:39. | |
-- taking children out of school is disruptive for other children as | :51:40. | :51:41. | |
well. The woman at the back? Can you | :51:42. | :51:47. | |
explain to me why schools, our primary schools, are used for two | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
days during the referendum for the Brexit vote and local elections | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
which takes two days out of their education timetable for our | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
children. That doesn't seem fair. We are on the question of children | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
going out of school for holidays. Nick? OK. Yes. I think the finest | :52:11. | :52:17. | |
thing that a parent can do for its child is ensure it gets the best | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
possible education that it can. And I think that they should keep them | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
in school. And they should forego the opportunity to have a warm swim | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
somewhere off the Spanish coast. Even for families who can't afford | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
to go during the holidays because all the prices go up, the hotels | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
cost more, the flights do. I dare say they do, but we don't all have | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
to two to Spain, they can go to Devon or wherever it is. The kids' | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
education is the most important thing. I unusually agree with you | :52:48. | :52:53. | |
lot. Unfortunately, even Devon is extortionate in the holidays. I have | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
a four-year-old and I was flabbergasted at the cost during | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
school holiday time. We need to take a pragmatic approach. I agree with | :53:04. | :53:06. | |
the panel, you have to ensure your child has the best education. One or | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
two days here or there in order to secure a cheaper holiday for parents | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
who perhaps can't afford to take their children away in school time | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
seems to be a pragmatic approach to me and the schools could potentially | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
monitor, if it was the same family going away every single few weeks, | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
then that's not acceptable, obviously, but I think once in a | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
blue moon, there shouldn't really be an issue with it. | :53:30. | :53:34. | |
APPLAUSE. I'm a mum to a few boys and I think | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
one of my issues with the school holidays is there seems to be a long | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
period of six weeks in the summer and, as a working mum you are | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
juggling constantly with the children. I would actually like to | :53:47. | :53:51. | |
see a review of the academic school year. Three weeks over Christmas and | :53:52. | :53:57. | |
five weeks in the summer maybe. You would still have the holiday problem | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
though? You do, but that is where that flexibility and conversations | :54:03. | :54:04. | |
come in. We have an issue that if you have a child in a different area | :54:05. | :54:09. | |
and if you work in a different area, my children can be off at a | :54:10. | :54:11. | |
different half-term to me and we need to look at this as a whole | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
picture and not just going on holiday. | :54:15. | :54:18. | |
Patrick? I think you've got to look at the effect that it's had on the | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
rest of the children in that class if they know certain people are | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
going away on holiday and they're not. Then on the way that that child | :54:26. | :54:30. | |
has to catch up on that particular subject when he comes back off | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
holiday and the pressure that puts on the school and the teachers. The | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
simple fact is, we are paying a lot of money into our education system | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
for children to go to school and, if they miss that schooling, they miss | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
that opportunity. So you are pro-fines? I do not think | :54:47. | :54:54. | |
it's right to take children out of school for holidays unless it's | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
very, very exceptional circumstances. Are you pro-fines? | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
Yes. Thank you. So the Supreme Court take notice? | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
No. I'm sure they won't. The woman there with the glasses on | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
in black? I think the way the education system works at the moment | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
specifically with primary schools, children are being taught how to | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
answer exam questions rather than actually being taught how to learn, | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
so in terms of holidays, I wouldn't condone to take children out of | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
school on a regular basis, but for maybe once a year, I think they can | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
learn a lot more on a few days' holiday than what they'd be reading | :55:36. | :55:37. | |
in a textbook. APPLAUSE. | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
People who home school believe they can learn more out of school all the | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
time which is another matter. Stuart Mottershead, 60 seconds for your | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
intriguing question, let's have it? Should all politicians have someone | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
sat behind them with a sign saying "he's lying to you? ". | :55:57. | :55:57. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. This is Nigel Farage who was | :55:58. | :56:10. | |
photographed in the European Parliament with a Labour MEP behind | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
him with a sign with anner row saying "he's lying to you". Should | :56:15. | :56:23. | |
all politicians have that? We have to be very quick -- an arrow. The | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
default position is that a lot of politicians are quite economical | :56:30. | :56:31. | |
with the truth but that shouldn't be the case. We need to put more truth | :56:32. | :56:34. | |
back into politics because people are losing faith in it quite | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
frankly. Patrick? Hear, hear. She's telling the truth. Go on? Quickly. | :56:40. | :56:48. | |
Oh I right, thank you. I show one of Donald Trump's favourite boasts was | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
that he wasn't a politician so I think it's an interesting question | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
and overall I think we try to do the best for our constituents and we try | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
and be as honest and open as we possibly can. | :57:03. | :57:05. | |
It's like having somebody on your shoaleder saying, don't believe | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
everything he says. Very quickly, yes or no, politicians liars, tell | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
the truth. You have to be very brief? They should just tell the | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
truth. Maajid? We have to trust each other | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
a lot more, hold each other to account. Lawyers, bankers, teachers, | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
clergy get it. We keep hating each other like this, we end up with | :57:29. | :57:37. | |
Donald Trump. Donald Trump is nothing but a, narcissist. Next time | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
your Prime Minister goes to see him, she held his hand on the first date. | :57:43. | :57:47. | |
Make sure she takes a chaperone for the second time. That's all I can | :57:48. | :57:49. | |
say. APPLAUSE. | :57:50. | :58:01. | |
The creed of Question Time is that all politicians tell the truth when | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
on Question Time. We're in Torquay next week, with, | :58:07. | :58:08. | |
among others, Billy Bragg To come and take part | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
in our audience in Torquay or Glasgow go to our website, | :58:13. | :58:19. | |
or call 0330 123 99 88. If you are listening tonight | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
on Radio 5 Live, the debate goes Thank you to the audience and the | :58:23. | :58:34. | |
panel and to the audience for watching. Good night. | :58:35. | :59:03. | |
There's a reason why your drink tastes better today, | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
why you're noticing the subtle botanicals, | :59:08. | :59:09. | |
It's your brain playing tricks on you. | :59:10. | :59:16. | |
A thick-bottomed, heavier glass makes you think it's more expensive. | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
It's the same reason they put weights in TV remotes and phones. | :59:21. | :59:25. |