Browse content similar to 08/02/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Tonight, we're in Darlington
and welcome to Question Time. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:15 | |
And with us here tonight,
a former banker and advisor | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
to George Osborne, now
the Government's Energy | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
Minister - Claire Perry. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:27 | |
A human rights lawyer before
going into politics, | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
and Jeremy Corbyn's occasional
stand-in at Prime | 0:00:30 | 0:00:31 | |
Minister's Questions -
the Shadow Foreign Secretary, | 0:00:31 | 0:00:35 | |
Emily Thornberry.
Property developer, champion | 0:00:35 | 0:00:36 | |
of academy schools and co-chair
of the pro-Brexit pressure group | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
Leave Means Leave, Richard Tice.
Rachel Sylvester, political | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
columnist on The Times. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:46 | |
And a long-standing supporter
of Manchester music | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
and Manchester United,
the broadcaster, | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
Terry Christian. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:52 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:00:52 | 0:01:00 | |
And do remember, as ever, watching
at home, of course, using Twitter. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
Our hashtag is bbcqt. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:12 | |
Twitter and Facebook
to carry on the arguments | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
that are happening here. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:19 | |
Our first question comes tonight
from Katie Woolsey, please. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:24 | |
Should female Tesco check-out staff,
who want to be paid the same | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
as male warehouse staff,
apply for a transfer | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
into the warehouse? | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
Right. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
Tesco, of course, who face,
it is said, something | 0:01:34 | 0:01:39 | |
like a £4 billion bill for having
paid women in one area less | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
than men in another. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:43 | |
Richard Tice, you are a businessman. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:44 | |
What do you think? | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
Well look, we had the
Equal Pay Act in 1970. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
So we've got a fantastic start. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:58 | |
But the reality is we've got to have
equal pay for equal jobs. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
I mean, that has to be
the basic understanding. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
If you start to try to compare
different, the value of different | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
jobs within the same organisation,
then I think it becomes | 0:02:06 | 0:02:08 | |
much more difficult. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:09 | |
But it's always up for debate. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
We must always do better
than we are currently doing. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
It's a scandal that having had that
Equal Pay Act for over 40 years, | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
these issues are still around,
whether it is in the BBC, | 0:02:17 | 0:02:19 | |
Tesco's or other major
multinational corporations. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
But are you saying it's not possible
to decide whether there is equal | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
work to match equal pay? | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
It's clearly much easier to work
out, if you've got the same job, | 0:02:28 | 0:02:30 | |
and you've got a woman and a man,
that's very easy. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
If you are trying to value
a warehouse job compared to someone | 0:02:33 | 0:02:36 | |
working on the shop floor
the checkout, that | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
actually is much harder. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
How do you value what it's
worth to the business? | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
Everybody is worth
something to the business. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
But that is much harder. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
Emily Thornberry? | 0:02:47 | 0:02:50 | |
I think the time and time again
when you look at these jobs, | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
the ones that are low paid
are always the women's jobs. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
That's how it is. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
And it drives me crazy, you know. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
Barbara Castle introduced
the Equal Pay Act in 1970. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
I bet she'd be turning
in her grave to see that it's | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
still going on and that women
are still systematically | 0:03:06 | 0:03:08 | |
paid less than men. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:09 | |
The women who are working
on the checkout Tesco's | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
are working just as long hours. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
They're just as important to Tesco's
as those who work in the warehouse. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:18 | |
It's just that they're the blokes. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:19 | |
And the ones that are paid less,
yet again, are the women. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
And you know many of the jobs that
are largely women's jobs | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
are the most valuable. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:26 | |
So looking after your mum,
give it to social care workers | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
and they are usually women. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:31 | |
And guess what? | 0:03:31 | 0:03:33 | |
We pay them as little amount
of money as we possibly | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
can within the law.
Or our precious four-year-olds. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
They are looked after again largely
by women and largely | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
paid the least amount. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
I do not believe... | 0:03:43 | 0:03:43 | |
What about Tesco, which
the question was about? | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
I'm just saying that it's
a coincidence, isn't it, | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
it's more than a coincidence that
it's the blokes in the warehouse | 0:03:48 | 0:03:51 | |
getting paid more than the women
in the checkout and it is | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
because certain things
are seen as women's work. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
And therefore, almost by definition,
they're not seen as valuable. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
And yet many of the bits of work,
many of the work that women do | 0:03:59 | 0:04:03 | |
are actually really valuable. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:04 | |
Looking after a four-year-old,
why is that less valuable | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
than being a banker,
or anything else? | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
This is the way that our
society is structured. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
Sorry, are you arguing for equal pay
for bankers and mothers | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
of four-year-old children? | 0:04:16 | 0:04:17 | |
I'm not following your argument. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
There are largely 12 jobs,
different workforces | 0:04:19 | 0:04:27 | |
in which women go into. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
They're very similar to the sort
of work that women do at home. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
And time and time again
it is undervalued. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
Whether it is secretarial work,
nursing, caring, teaching. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
All of these things
tend to be women's work | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
and they tend to be overpaid. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:39 | |
We have to think about that. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
You sir, up there? | 0:04:41 | 0:04:42 | |
The man with the spectacles. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
Having worked in one
of the top supermarket chains, | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
I've seen both the shop floor type
of work and the warehouse | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
type of work. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:52 | |
I can say for a fact,
working on the shop floor | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
you are speaking to the customers. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
In the warehouse it is noisy,
it is loud, it is cold. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
It is hard, hard graft. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
So I think trying to compare shop
floor work with warehouse work, | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
I think it's not the same. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
I'm not saying it's the same. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:12 | |
I'm not saying it's the same. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:13 | |
It's different work
but it's just as valuable. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
The woman there in the centre? | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
OK, I've got your point. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:18 | |
You, madam? | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
I can see what Emily is saying,
but you have got two jobs | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
in Tesco's, so it should be two
separate job scales. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
My take on the equality pay is more
based on what has happened | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
recently at the BBC. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
Why did the men feel that the only
way they could step up | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
for their women's colleagues
was to take a pay cut? | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
Why did they not actually
challenge their bosses to bring | 0:05:39 | 0:05:44 | |
the women's pay in line
with theirs for the same job role? | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
It's two different job roles
at Tesco's, it's not at the BBC. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
Go on then. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
Terry Christian? | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
I was going to say it's a lot
trickier at Tesco's - | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
and it's one for lawyers -
than it is at the BBC. | 0:05:59 | 0:06:06 | |
If you think about John Humphrys,
God bless him, harrumphing about art | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
and new technology while reading
the editorial from the Daily Mail, | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
then you've got to wonder
is he really worth four times | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
what a female broadcaster does
when she is doing exactly | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
the same job as him? | 0:06:18 | 0:06:19 | |
It is one for the lawyers at Tesco. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:27 | |
Even when women and men do any good
job there is still a gender pay gap. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:42 | |
Iceland made it illegal to pay a man
more than a woman. Does the UK need | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
to follow that example? Claire
Perry? | 0:06:45 | 0:06:52 | |
Look, it's 100 years
since some women got the vote. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:55 | |
And I still find it incredible
that there are jobs out there, | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
including at the BBC,
where women are systematically paid | 0:06:58 | 0:07:00 | |
less for doing exactly
the same job as a man. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
And it's really good the gender pay
gap is at its lowest level. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
We've brought forward
lots of proposals, so companies have | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
to disclose what they are paying,
so does the public sector, | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
so does government. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:11 | |
I think this is a complicated case,
as the gentleman said, | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
because there is nothing to stop
women taking on those jobs. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:16 | |
But we have seen time and time
again, we had the big cases in local | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
government and few years ago
where women had to fight | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
through the courts to get equal
pay for the same jobs. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
It's got to stop. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:26 | |
We have half the workforce
now as women. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
We know we are going to be wanting
to work for longer and we have | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
to make sure that we are giving
women exactly the same | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
pay and rights as we,
as some of us got with the vote | 0:07:36 | 0:07:39 | |
100 years ago. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:40 | |
Certainly in supermarkets as well,
the women are not unionised. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
Now maybe if they were in a trade
union, they could collectively | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
bargain and they wouldn't get that. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:46 | |
And one of the problems,
my mum used to always say this, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
one of the reasons women are often
paid less than men is they seemed | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
very reluctant to join
trade unions in the past. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:56 | |
And even now, women are often,
in jobs, decent jobs, | 0:07:56 | 0:08:01 | |
will often do unpaid overtime
because they may be a bit more | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
conscientious than the blokes. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:05 | |
But they shouldn't be doing it
really because they are driving | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
their own wages down
and everybody else's. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
Let me go back to Katie Woolsey,
who asked the question. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
What is your view? | 0:08:12 | 0:08:13 | |
I agree with the man over there. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
I think that if people,
if women want to go and work | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
in the warehouse, go and apply
for the job. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:22 | |
Why should they get paid more? | 0:08:22 | 0:08:25 | |
I wouldn't mind sitting on my behind
all day scanning stuff | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
and chatting to people. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:36 | |
I know about working in a warehouse
- because I actually | 0:08:38 | 0:08:40 | |
do work in a warehouse,
by the way I run my own business | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
and I have a warehouse,
and I was there today. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:46 | |
It was freezing cold. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:47 | |
It is dirty and it is dusty. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:48 | |
I'd like to see the women
apply for those jobs | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
if they want to be paid the same
as the men. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:53 | |
Rachel Sylvester? | 0:08:53 | 0:08:54 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:56 | |
I think there is still a huge issue. | 0:08:56 | 0:08:57 | |
There is an 18% gap on average
between what men and women earn, | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
and there are all kinds
of reasons for that. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
For the same jobs. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:04 | |
Not for the same jobs. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:05 | |
But the problem with this is it
about what society values. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
So society values less the caring
roles, whether it is being a carer, | 0:09:08 | 0:09:12 | |
a cleaner, a dinner lady,
compared to what is seen | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
as the strength and muscular roles. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:17 | |
And I think that's a big problem. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:19 | |
You can't get around that. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
That is about social values as much
as about employment law. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:27 | |
I will come to you. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
What's particularly disappointing,
we are one of the worst | 0:09:29 | 0:09:31 | |
in Europe at this. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
It's always only Germany
that is worse than us. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
I think one of the ways,
the government has to be much more | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
ambitious with its targets. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:39 | |
I think we need many more
great women in senior | 0:09:39 | 0:09:46 | |
roles in corporations,
and then it's much | 0:09:46 | 0:09:47 | |
less likely to happen. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:48 | |
So that really has
to be an objective. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:50 | |
Emily? | 0:09:50 | 0:09:51 | |
I was just going to say,
we need a new Equal Pay Act. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
We need an updated Equal Pay Act
that really addresses this issue. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
And I think one of the other
issues that we need to put | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
into the melting spot,
if we are talking about the subject | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
more generally, is when women start
working part time after they've had | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
kids or when they have
caring responsibilities | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
for elderly relatives. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
And then they are vulnerable. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:10 | |
Then they are more likely to take
more lower paid jobs. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
And they don't apply
for a promotion because there | 0:10:13 | 0:10:15 | |
are so grateful to be able to work
whether part-time are flexibly. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
And we have to start
thinking about that as well, | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
because we are losing a very large
part of the workforce and we are not | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
valuing them properly. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:25 | |
What do you say to Katie Woolsey's
point though about warehouse | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
and working indoors? | 0:10:28 | 0:10:28 | |
That they are not equal? | 0:10:28 | 0:10:29 | |
I'm not saying they are the same
job, they are different jobs. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
But for Tesco's to have people
working on the cashpoints and to be | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
talking to customers and to be
the face of Tesco's is a very | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
important job as well. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:41 | |
It ought to be valued
in the same way, in my view, | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
as people working in the warehouse. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
Yes of course it's a different job. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
But why is it that we are valuing
blokes' jobs more than we are | 0:10:49 | 0:10:53 | |
valuing women's jobs? | 0:10:53 | 0:10:53 | |
But nobody stopping the women
from applying for those jobs. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
That is what I'm saying. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:57 | |
Nobody is stopping a woman
from going to work | 0:10:57 | 0:10:59 | |
on a construction site. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:00 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
The truth is the women don't
want to do them dirty jobs. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
They really don't want to do them. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:08 | |
And if there were more men,
for example, doing childcare, | 0:11:08 | 0:11:14 | |
or caring for the elderly,
I bet those salaries would go up. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
I bet they would. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:18 | |
I'm sorry, but what about people
who can't physically | 0:11:18 | 0:11:21 | |
work in warehouses? | 0:11:21 | 0:11:22 | |
Why should they settle
for a lower wage? | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
It is an equal job,
they are working the same hours, | 0:11:25 | 0:11:27 | |
people that have disabilities
and so forth cannot | 0:11:27 | 0:11:29 | |
apply for that job. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:37 | |
Why is that seen as a dirty job
when things like nursing, | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
looking after people in all sorts
of conditions, they are working | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
all sorts of hours and they don't
have the same equal pay and the same | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
sort of recognition amongst society? | 0:11:46 | 0:11:48 | |
All right. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:49 | |
And the woman at
the very back there. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:51 | |
Can I just say, I worked
for Asda for two years, | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
just about eight months ago. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
And I'm sorry, but what the lady
over there about the warehouse, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
it's nothing but insulting coming
from one woman to another woman. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:01 | |
The people in Asda... | 0:12:01 | 0:12:02 | |
I'm not quite sure how Tesco works. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:05 | |
I worked in Asda, I worked
on the shop floor lugging things | 0:12:05 | 0:12:08 | |
around, pulling things. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:10 | |
I worked with customers. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
I was a customer... | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
I was - I went on checkouts,
in emergencies. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:20 | |
I also worked in the warehouse. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:22 | |
I pulled orders. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
If need be, we split orders down. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:26 | |
Were you on equal pay to the men? | 0:12:26 | 0:12:33 | |
We were on equal pay
but not to the people | 0:12:33 | 0:12:35 | |
in the central warehouses,
which I think is what | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
is being discussed. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:39 | |
Right, OK. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:40 | |
But that's the case. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:42 | |
Those people had an easier job. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:43 | |
They just literally
loaded everything on. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
It was when it got to the stars
that we had the hard work. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
They should be paid
less, you are saying? | 0:12:49 | 0:12:51 | |
They should be paid
the same as us, not more. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
And the man up there
and then we must move on. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
The man at the very back
with his spectacles on, | 0:12:57 | 0:12:59 | |
on the right there.
Yes? | 0:12:59 | 0:13:00 | |
When people went for a job
they applied, they were interviewed, | 0:13:00 | 0:13:04 | |
they knew what the job
was about and they knew | 0:13:04 | 0:13:05 | |
what the pay was. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
So you are at liberty
not to accept it. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
Where is the problem? | 0:13:10 | 0:13:12 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
I think we'd better go on. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
We've raised a lot
of questions there. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:23 | |
Just before we go on, where question
Time is going to be next. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
Yeovil next week. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:27 | |
And Uttoxeter the week after that. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
On the screen are the details of how
to apply, and I will, as always, | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
give them at the end if you don't
have a chance to make | 0:13:34 | 0:13:37 | |
a note of them now. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:39 | |
Right, let's have a question
from Natasha Telford, please. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
Is it fair that local authorities
have to take the blame for having | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
to increase council tax? | 0:13:45 | 0:13:46 | |
Is it fair that local authorities
have to take the blame for having | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
to increase council tax? | 0:13:49 | 0:13:50 | |
We heard that council tax,
on average, is going up in almost | 0:13:50 | 0:13:53 | |
every council in England -
Scotland is different, of course - | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
by 6%, or just under the 6% limit
that they have to go to. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
Is it fair that councils
should have to do this, | 0:13:59 | 0:14:01 | |
because they are not getting
money from government? | 0:14:01 | 0:14:03 | |
Claire Perry. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
I think one of the things
I find is that people, | 0:14:06 | 0:14:08 | |
the closer they see money
being spent to them, | 0:14:08 | 0:14:10 | |
the more they feel they are involved
in those decisions. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:13 | |
One of the terrible things a few
years ago when I first came | 0:14:13 | 0:14:16 | |
into politics, only 30% of people
thought they had any | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
influence over the way any
of the money was spent locally. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
So, actually, we know the incredible
role that councils play in providing | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
social care services,
children's services, | 0:14:25 | 0:14:27 | |
picking up the rubbish,
putting in the recycling | 0:14:27 | 0:14:29 | |
bins, or not. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:32 | |
I think the more that money
is spent closer to us, | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
the more we feel it's delivering
value, or we have a | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
chance to change it. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
We all know we're going
to have to change the way | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
we fund social care. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
I know in Wiltshire,
where the council taxes | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
are going up, people
feel it is reasonable. | 0:14:47 | 0:14:49 | |
In general, people are happier now
with public services than they have | 0:14:49 | 0:14:52 | |
been in many a year. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:53 | |
Hang on, hang on... | 0:14:53 | 0:14:54 | |
They are! | 0:14:54 | 0:14:55 | |
People are happier... | 0:14:55 | 0:14:56 | |
Well, people say they are happier
with the public services | 0:14:56 | 0:14:58 | |
than they have been in a long time. | 0:14:58 | 0:15:02 | |
The point of the question,
why have you deliberately cut money | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
from taxpayers to the councils
by 40% since 2010, and put | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
all of that on the councils? | 0:15:08 | 0:15:09 | |
That was the point of the question. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:15 | |
I was out today with your fantastic
combined local authority... | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
Yeah, are you going to
answer that question? | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
Who are working collectively
on the Teesside SSI site, | 0:15:20 | 0:15:22 | |
which is going to be absolutely
amazing. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
And there is a huge
devolution deal behind that. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
Almost half a billion
over the next 30 years. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:30 | |
I think that money, coming out
to local government, | 0:15:30 | 0:15:32 | |
being spent locally,
is the right thing to do. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:36 | |
But, hang on, the question Natasha
asked, is it fair local authorities | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
have to take the blame. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:40 | |
You know perfectly well
what the issue is. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:42 | |
Local councils have
lost 40% of their money | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
from central government. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:45 | |
And they are lumbered with having
to raise it from house owners. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:48 | |
There are a whole series
of settlements, we wanted to make | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
sure that the business rates,
which are raised locally, | 0:15:52 | 0:15:54 | |
and historically went whistling
back to Westminster, | 0:15:54 | 0:15:56 | |
that they are actually
kept and spent locally. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
To me, this is about changing
the funding base so that more money | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
is raised locally and spent locally. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
Do you think it is fair, Rachel? | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
No, I think the Government
is passing the buck to local | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
councils, particularly
on social care. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:15 | |
There has been something
like £6 billion cut from the social | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
care budgets alone. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:20 | |
That is the reason for our NHS
crisis now this winter. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:25 | |
There are something like one in ten
beds in the NHS are now filled | 0:16:25 | 0:16:28 | |
with people who are well to go home,
but can't do that, | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
because there is nowhere to look
after them in the community. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
Care homes are closing, domiciliary
care services can't cope. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:38 | |
Councils have had to cut the amount
of money they are paying to care | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
homes, so the whole system
is absolutely creaking. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
I think there is a failure
of leadership from Theresa May | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
and the Government not to take
a national decision | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
about a national crisis. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
So you think taxes should go up
to pay for these things? | 0:16:51 | 0:16:55 | |
I think there should be some kind
of hypothecated health | 0:16:55 | 0:16:57 | |
and social care tax. | 0:16:57 | 0:16:58 | |
This isn't a situation... | 0:16:58 | 0:16:59 | |
Hypothecated being money
that is raised just for the NHS? | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
Not just for the NHS,
but also for social care. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
This isn't something that's to do
with NHS efficiencies. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:11 | |
Why do you think they won't do this? | 0:17:11 | 0:17:13 | |
It's to do with the
ageing population. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:14 | |
Why won't the Government
act on this? | 0:17:14 | 0:17:16 | |
Well, I think Jeremy Hunt
would quite like to do it, actually. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
There's cross-party support. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:20 | |
I've talked to Labour MPs, Tory MPs
and Liberal Democrat MPs, all think | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
this is a really good idea. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:24 | |
All acknowledge there
is a huge crisis. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:26 | |
All acknowledge that, actually,
you can't put this on to local | 0:17:26 | 0:17:29 | |
councils alone any more,
as Natasha said. | 0:17:29 | 0:17:30 | |
And I think it's time now
for the Government to act. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
A lot of it goes back to Thatcher,
because she was the first one, | 0:17:33 | 0:17:39 | |
funnily enough, to start bringing
the money back in from | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
the local councils and then
rate-capping those councils. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:44 | |
Now, the Tories have always been
the party of indirect taxation. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
So they would always tax
in a way that you couldn't | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
blame them directly. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:51 | |
You know, back in the old days,
when we had nationalised | 0:17:51 | 0:17:54 | |
gas and electricity,
and water, and stuff like that, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
if your water or your gas bill went
up, you'd blame the Government. | 0:17:57 | 0:18:04 | |
Or you'd blame your
local council directly. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:06 | |
Once you privatise it,
you take that away. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:08 | |
And so it's like, ooh,
it's nothing to do with us. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
And this is the problem. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:11 | |
Now, with libraries shutting down,
everywhere is creaking | 0:18:11 | 0:18:13 | |
because the whole country
is in a mess. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
And to use... | 0:18:15 | 0:18:16 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
To use a quite vacuous statement,
which is used a lot nowadays, | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
I think, what do they say,
no deal is better than a bad deal? | 0:18:24 | 0:18:29 | |
I'd say no leader is
better than a bad leader. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
What are you talking about? | 0:18:32 | 0:18:34 | |
At the moment we have no
leadership in this country. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:36 | |
Honestly! | 0:18:36 | 0:18:37 | |
We've got no government. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
Richard Tice? | 0:18:40 | 0:18:41 | |
Let's stick to the question. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:42 | |
I've just stuck to the question. | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
We are taxpayers, we all want our
taxes to be spent well, | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
whether it is at central government
or local authority. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
Coming back to Natasha's question,
clearly, local authorities can't | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
absolve themselves to spending
that money wisely. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
We want it to be spent well,
efficiently and smartly. | 0:18:56 | 0:19:02 | |
So, there is, of course,
there is always pressure on budgets. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
There always will be. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:05 | |
But they can't absolve
themselves of that blame. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
They've got responsibilities
at the local level, they need | 0:19:07 | 0:19:09 | |
to spend the money well. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:10 | |
When it comes to caring
for people, that's expensive. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
And that's got to be
taken into account. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
So local budgets... | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
Of course, it's going up,
and it's all coming down the NHS. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
I'll come to Emily
Thornberry in a moment. | 0:19:21 | 0:19:23 | |
I'll go to the man
there in spectacles. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:28 | |
Let's hear from one or two people
who have to foot these bill. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
Yes? | 0:19:31 | 0:19:32 | |
The woman there, yes? | 0:19:32 | 0:19:33 | |
You. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:34 | |
In addition to adult social care,
there is also a massive problem | 0:19:34 | 0:19:37 | |
in children's social care
that we don't talk | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
about nearly enough. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:40 | |
The most vulnerable
children in our society. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
The Local Government Association
says that by 2020 I believe | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
there is going to be a £2 billion
national deficit in this area. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:49 | |
And we are seeing such an increase
in demand in the north-east | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
because children and young people
are being brought into care through | 0:19:51 | 0:19:54 | |
neglect in this age of austerity. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:55 | |
And is it your view that... | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
As Terry was saying,
is it your view this as deliberate | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
action by the Government to put
the burden local councils? | 0:20:03 | 0:20:06 | |
I do. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:10 | |
And I think it's particularly
targeted at Labour authorities | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
in the north-east. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:14 | |
We've had the worst cuts,
and we are the ones that | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
have the biggest... | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
We are the ones that
have the biggest... | 0:20:18 | 0:20:20 | |
Not quite burdens, but we have a lot
more demand in terms of social care. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:24 | |
And fewer people who can
foot their own bills. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
I'll give Claire a chance
to answer in a moment. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:28 | |
Emily Thornberry? | 0:20:28 | 0:20:29 | |
Do you want me to speak? | 0:20:29 | 0:20:31 | |
Yes. | 0:20:31 | 0:20:32 | |
If you want to speak! | 0:20:32 | 0:20:33 | |
I would love to speak. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:34 | |
I have a lot to say. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
I've never known you
not want to speak. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
I have a lot to say on this. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
You're right. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:41 | |
Stick to the question that was put. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:50 | |
In the end, local authorities'
major income comes | 0:20:50 | 0:20:51 | |
from central government. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:53 | |
That's the truth. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:54 | |
To put up council tax will never
make up for the amount | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
that councils are losing
centrally from government. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
On average, it is 40% cuts,
but you're absolutely right, | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
guess what, the poorest areas
are the ones that are | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
getting the biggest cuts. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:06 | |
So, you are not alone
in the north east. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:12 | |
Deprived inner-city boroughs
like mine, we have got | 0:21:12 | 0:21:14 | |
60% cuts in my area,
where I have some of the worst child | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
poverty in the country. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:18 | |
So, what they are doing
as they are cutting back | 0:21:18 | 0:21:20 | |
the funds centrally. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:21 | |
Then what they do is
they decentralise the blame. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:23 | |
So, they cut the money
from central government | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
and then local people say,
what has happened | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
to our bin service? | 0:21:27 | 0:21:28 | |
Why are our streets so dirty? | 0:21:28 | 0:21:30 | |
What is going on? | 0:21:30 | 0:21:31 | |
And they blame the councillors. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:32 | |
But, actually, it's central
government and it is | 0:21:32 | 0:21:34 | |
being done deliberately. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:35 | |
And the chickens are
coming home to roost. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
That is what's happening. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
And we know that the people
who really suffer are those | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
who are the most vulnerable,
because councils absolutely have | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
to look after children
who are on the verge | 0:21:44 | 0:21:46 | |
of going into care. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:47 | |
And they don't have enough money. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:49 | |
And councils have been
telling this government, | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
pleading with this government,
councils of every stripe, | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
and they just have cloth ears
on this and will not listen. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:56 | |
And as for social care... | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
It's a pretty severe indictment,
Claire Perry, what do you say? | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
I admire her passion,
but she is just wrong. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
And here's why. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:13 | |
We talk about wanting to fund
better our NHS, our social care, | 0:22:13 | 0:22:15 | |
our vulnerable children services. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:16 | |
And there are two ways, as you know,
madam, because it sounds | 0:22:16 | 0:22:19 | |
like you are a local government
expert, to fund this. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
We can either increase borrowing
or we can put up taxes, | 0:22:22 | 0:22:24 | |
or we can cut costs. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
And I think councils have cut costs
very effectively across the country | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
over the last years. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:29 | |
People have done an amazing job,
we found lots of efficiencies. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
Yeah, tell Northampton! | 0:22:32 | 0:22:33 | |
Do we put up taxes... | 0:22:33 | 0:22:34 | |
Yes, round of applause
for you, I think? | 0:22:34 | 0:22:38 | |
That's very patronising. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:39 | |
Do we put up taxes nationally,
and put it all into the mix? | 0:22:39 | 0:22:43 | |
An interesting question,
do you ringfence it, | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
which of course is what national
insurance was originally | 0:22:46 | 0:22:47 | |
supposed to be? | 0:22:47 | 0:22:48 | |
Or do you raise taxes locally
where people can see | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
what they are being spent on? | 0:22:51 | 0:22:52 | |
And when I talk to my constituents,
delivering better social care is not | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
some amorphous pot coming out
of central government, | 0:22:55 | 0:22:57 | |
it is joining up the GP surgeries,
so that the frail elderly get home | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
visits, they get kept
out of hospital. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:02 | |
It is working with
the local hospital. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:04 | |
I think so much of the solution
for social care is better | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
integration of health
and social care... | 0:23:07 | 0:23:08 | |
And money, Claire! | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
You can't keep doing it on no money! | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
And that's why... | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
Claire, just answer this question,
isn't it true, though, you say | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
the local authorities should... | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
It's better if they get the money
locally, you stop them raising | 0:23:21 | 0:23:25 | |
the money they get by limiting
it at 6%. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:31 | |
You don't let them raise the money
that they might need to do this. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
Why do you do that? | 0:23:35 | 0:23:36 | |
When there is an increase and people
say I would be happy to pay a bit | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
more for the NHS and for social
care, and this is a contribution | 0:23:40 | 0:23:43 | |
that we are making locally,
what we know from Emily's team, | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
and I don't like to get partisan,
but sometimes the "cloth | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
ears" is a little nasty,
one of Emily's front bench spokesmen | 0:23:48 | 0:23:53 | |
had to resign after exposing
the plan to jack up council taxes, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
to jack up national income tax,
and just spend more on everything. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
We have to make these choices. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:00 | |
I think putting money into social
care and vulnerable children | 0:24:00 | 0:24:02 | |
is a really good justification
for raising taxes. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:07 | |
It's a cynical exercise
in blame pushing. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
You know it is. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
You don't believe a word
of what you are saying. | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:21 | |
OK, whether she believes
what she is saying or not, | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
let's go to members of our audience
and just hear what they | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
think of what she said. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:28 | |
The woman in the... | 0:24:28 | 0:24:29 | |
One, two, three... | 0:24:29 | 0:24:30 | |
Yes, you, in the grey? | 0:24:30 | 0:24:31 | |
So, you talk about integration
being the solution. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
Privatisation of the NHS is such
a cause of disintegration | 0:24:33 | 0:24:35 | |
of services, services can't work
with one another. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
It's becoming so much... | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
It's much more poorly
executed than it ever was. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
That's just not true, Madam. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:44 | |
I'm really sorry
to come back on this. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
So, when we talk about
privatisation, we think | 0:24:47 | 0:24:50 | |
about somehow charging people
to visit local hospitals. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:52 | |
For decades... | 0:24:52 | 0:24:54 | |
No we don't! | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
When we talk about privatisation,
we think about public money... | 0:24:57 | 0:25:01 | |
One at a time. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
Don't try and shout down on me. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:05 | |
People hate to see
politicians doing that. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:06 | |
You're talking rubbish. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:07 | |
In this area, in my area... | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:16 | |
We can exchange insults or we can
talk about the facts. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
The facts are in my constituency
and in this one, there | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
are independent providers
of services, providing | 0:25:21 | 0:25:22 | |
services free for the NHS. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:26 | |
Things run by Care International,
Macmillan Nurses as an independent | 0:25:26 | 0:25:32 | |
provider, that started under Tony
Blair. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
It's continued because, actually,
we shouldn't have ideology | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
in the Health Service. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:37 | |
We should protect it and make it
free at the point of demand | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
for everybody who needs it. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:41 | |
The question... | 0:25:41 | 0:25:42 | |
Stop the ideology and
focus on the facts. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
Claire, the question
is not about that. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
It's about local authorities,
about the increase in rates. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:49 | |
I was responding to the point
about privatisation. | 0:25:49 | 0:25:51 | |
The man there, in the third row? | 0:25:51 | 0:25:52 | |
Yes, how about instead of cutting
budgets and forcing local councils | 0:25:52 | 0:25:56 | |
all over the country
to put their taxes up, | 0:25:56 | 0:26:03 | |
how about you cut the foreign aid
budget and then that money could go | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
towards other things that
are needed in this country? | 0:26:07 | 0:26:09 | |
I don't agree. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:10 | |
Don't sit there shaking your head! | 0:26:10 | 0:26:14 | |
It is sensible solution. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
Let's hear from the man
at the back, there. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
I think we just need to look at,
rather than what is coming | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
in, what is going out. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:27 | |
When you look at this
local authority here, | 0:26:27 | 0:26:29 | |
generally the net spend has been
pretty consistent during this | 0:26:29 | 0:26:32 | |
period of austerity. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
If you look at it also,
it's the fact that councils | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
have an obligation to carry out
or provide a statutory service. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
This council here, again,
spends on non-statutory services, | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
and that's fine, as long
as they are breaking even. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:51 | |
But when it's costing a lot, we need
to look at what we are actually | 0:26:51 | 0:26:55 | |
spending our money on,
not what is coming in. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:57 | |
Are you saying that
they are spending money | 0:26:57 | 0:26:59 | |
they didn't need to spend? | 0:26:59 | 0:27:00 | |
They are spending money
on non-statutory services, | 0:27:00 | 0:27:02 | |
which are making a loss. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:03 | |
Like what? | 0:27:03 | 0:27:04 | |
The Dolphin Centre. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:05 | |
But it's great! | 0:27:05 | 0:27:06 | |
It would be peanuts. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:07 | |
Where we are sitting? | 0:27:07 | 0:27:08 | |
Yes. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:09 | |
Absolutely peanuts. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
Well, no, this is
actually Central Hall. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:14 | |
The Dolphin Centre is next door. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:15 | |
But the swimming pool, and all that,
where we have been all day? | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
Not swimming, but getting
ready for this programme. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:20 | |
You think that shouldn't be
funded by the council? | 0:27:20 | 0:27:22 | |
Also, coming back to what is coming
in, the Labour government, over | 0:27:22 | 0:27:25 | |
the period of the Labour Government,
council tax increased by 100%. | 0:27:25 | 0:27:28 | |
Now, during this period
of austerity, council tax | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
is generally only increased
by about 15%. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
So, you've got a significant
imbalance there. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
Who would you like to have pay
for the swimming pool? | 0:27:36 | 0:27:38 | |
I think it should be private. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
Somebody basically makes a profit. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
OK. | 0:27:42 | 0:27:44 | |
And you, in the second row? | 0:27:44 | 0:27:48 | |
I work in health care,
in a senior role. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
There is a reality about we do need
to do more, we do need | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
to integrate services,
we are working very closely | 0:27:55 | 0:27:58 | |
with our GP, primary care service,
we are doing everything | 0:27:58 | 0:28:00 | |
we can in that. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:03 | |
But the absolute reality
is there isn't enough | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
funding to go around. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:06 | |
And non-statutory services
include services for very | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
old, very frail people. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:14 | |
How would you feel if your very old,
very frail elderly mum | 0:28:14 | 0:28:17 | |
was actually in need and wasn't able
to access the services | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
that were required? | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
And then, despite all
of the workaround integration, | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
because they don't get the care
that they need, they end up | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
in hospital and stuck there? | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:32 | |
The man there? | 0:28:32 | 0:28:33 | |
The woman, there, sorry. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
The fact is that the National Audit
Office have produced a report to say | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
that private finance,
supporting strategy | 0:28:41 | 0:28:44 | |
and non-statutory services,
is an inefficient way to support | 0:28:44 | 0:28:46 | |
what we really need in this country. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:54 | |
So, I don't agree with that
gentleman up there that said | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
we should privatise places such
as this Dolphin Centre. | 0:28:56 | 0:28:59 | |
I think it's a totally
ridiculous statement. | 0:28:59 | 0:29:00 | |
Rachel? | 0:29:00 | 0:29:01 | |
I just wanted to go back
to the original question | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
and question what Claire was saying. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:05 | |
Actually, councils -
it is the least fair way | 0:29:05 | 0:29:07 | |
of raising money for social care. | 0:29:07 | 0:29:11 | |
The richest councils by definition
can raise the most from council tax. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:17 | |
And it's the poorest councils, it's
the poorest councils that have to | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
pay the most for social care because
they have the fewest people who can | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
afford to pay for their own care. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
So it's the imbalance. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:26 | |
That's why it has to
be a national system. | 0:29:26 | 0:29:28 | |
Do you want to come in on this? | 0:29:28 | 0:29:30 | |
The point is it is
all about choices. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:32 | |
And the gentleman raised
the question of the | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
foreign aid budget. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:35 | |
We know we have a huge
crisis in social care. | 0:29:35 | 0:29:38 | |
And as a nation we have
to make that choice | 0:29:38 | 0:29:40 | |
because money doesn't grow on trees. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:42 | |
We've got to make public services
well funded but they've got to be | 0:29:42 | 0:29:45 | |
efficiently run. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:46 | |
The government has to
have the courage to make | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
that choice. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:49 | |
You can't just print money. | 0:29:49 | 0:29:50 | |
You've got no choice
if you need social care. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
Correct. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:54 | |
If you are homeless,
you've got no choice. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:57 | |
If you are terminally
ill, and you need | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 | |
a carer, you've got no choice. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:00 | |
If you are disabled,
you have no choice. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
So all of this nonsense about you've
got a choice, of course | 0:30:04 | 0:30:07 | |
you haven't.
Get into the real world. | 0:30:07 | 0:30:09 | |
All right. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:10 | |
The government has
got to make a choice. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
Where does it invest the money? | 0:30:12 | 0:30:14 | |
What you save in the short
term ends up costing you | 0:30:14 | 0:30:17 | |
more in the long-term. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:21 | |
We've got many more questions
that the audience in Darlington | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
wants to ask, so I'm
going to move on. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:26 | |
I've got two or three
more I'd like to | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
get through. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:30 | |
Let's have this one
from Helene Lawson, please. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:32 | |
Should Jon Venables continue to have
anonymity at the taxpayers' expense? | 0:30:32 | 0:30:39 | |
Jon Venables, who was this
week found guilty of | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
possessing child abuse
images for the second time, | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
jailed for three years. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
There was a question raised
about whether he was | 0:30:47 | 0:30:49 | |
entitled to be given anonymity. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:51 | |
Rachel Sylvester, what do you think? | 0:30:51 | 0:30:52 | |
This is just an awful,
sickening case. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
But I worry about removing anonymity
from him, because I think | 0:30:56 | 0:31:01 | |
there could be a real kind of mob
mentality about him. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
And I'm not sure it would
actually help society | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
in the end or protect anyone. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:09 | |
And I think the criminal
justice system, | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
however evil people are, or vile,
the criminal has to be fair and | 0:31:12 | 0:31:15 | |
evenhanded and dispassionate. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:20 | |
-- the criminal justice system. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:22 | |
And there are people
who aren't going to | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
agree with that. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:26 | |
I totally understand why
James Bulger's family | 0:31:26 | 0:31:28 | |
feel very passionately about this. | 0:31:28 | 0:31:29 | |
But I think you can't
have a criminal justice system that | 0:31:29 | 0:31:32 | |
really made for victims. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:33 | |
It has to be at a higher level. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:36 | |
And it has to be evenhanded
and fair, rather than | 0:31:36 | 0:31:41 | |
vindictive or revengeful. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
Do you agree with that? | 0:31:43 | 0:31:44 | |
Yes, I do. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:45 | |
You do agree with that? | 0:31:45 | 0:31:47 | |
Terry Christian? | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
Again, I agree really
with what Rachel said. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
I mean, the whole thing is very sad
and sickening especially when you | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
think they were so young
when they committed | 0:31:55 | 0:31:57 | |
that atrocious crime. | 0:31:57 | 0:31:59 | |
But it's like, where do we go? | 0:31:59 | 0:32:03 | |
I think it was in 1842
when we decided we'd | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
no longer hang kids under the age
of seven, or something like that. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:10 | |
How much punishment
can you give them? | 0:32:10 | 0:32:12 | |
You've got to wonder
what sort of upbringing | 0:32:12 | 0:32:14 | |
out the way they did. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:15 | |
It's scary. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:19 | |
Clearly you have to treat
people equally and fairly. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
You can't make special,
separate cases for people just | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
because you think it's
ever more desperate. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:27 | |
You know, we've got such a great
legal system, you have to | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
treat people fairly
and you can't differentiate. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:31 | |
What, his anonymity,
which was imposed after the | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
case because he was a child
at the time, should remain | 0:32:33 | 0:32:38 | |
all his life? | 0:32:38 | 0:32:43 | |
It should just be applied
the same for everybody, | 0:32:43 | 0:32:45 | |
whoever you are. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:46 | |
How do you you are? | 0:32:46 | 0:32:47 | |
Well, I mean, we can't make
different rules for different | 0:32:47 | 0:32:49 | |
individuals going
through the system. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
The woman at the back,
what do you think? | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
What I would say is I think
anonymity is really | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
important. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:56 | |
Social media - when Shannon
Matthews' mother came out | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
all over the papers,
all of Facebook, social | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
media, of her face. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
I just think it would promote
vigilantes groups, going around | 0:33:05 | 0:33:08 | |
following them, it could encourage
violent attacks and things | 0:33:08 | 0:33:11 | |
like that. | 0:33:11 | 0:33:12 | |
What he did was disgusting
and you can't - | 0:33:12 | 0:33:18 | |
but now continually doing
disgusting things. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:19 | |
But if you remove the anonymity
you are just going to | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
encourage vigilantes attacks. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:23 | |
Does anybody disagree
with the points | 0:33:23 | 0:33:24 | |
that are being made? | 0:33:24 | 0:33:25 | |
Who wants to speak? | 0:33:25 | 0:33:26 | |
You do? | 0:33:26 | 0:33:30 | |
This guy has done a terrible
crime when he was young. | 0:33:30 | 0:33:32 | |
And he paid for it. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:35 | |
He came out and he did
the same thing again. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:37 | |
Not quite. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:42 | |
Well, he did bad things
on the Internet. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:47 | |
So how do we protect ourselves
from this individual? | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
We are not putting him
in prison long enough. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:56 | |
People don't know where he is. | 0:33:56 | 0:34:00 | |
He could be doing it again. | 0:34:00 | 0:34:02 | |
I don't think we are
safe without knowing | 0:34:02 | 0:34:04 | |
exactly where he is. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:05 | |
Emily Thornberry? | 0:34:05 | 0:34:13 | |
I agree with you to a certain extent
when you talk about us | 0:34:14 | 0:34:17 | |
having a great legal system. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:19 | |
But we don't have a great
justice system asa whole. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:21 | |
And I think there's a lot of work
that we are letting go, and | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
a lot of the things that we used
to do better and we're | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
not doing well now. | 0:34:28 | 0:34:29 | |
In order to keep us safe, sir,
we need to not only punish people | 0:34:29 | 0:34:32 | |
and keep them out of the public
sphere, but we also asked to do some | 0:34:32 | 0:34:36 | |
work on rehabilitation. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:37 | |
And we have to have a
decent system that when | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
people leave prison,
that there is some attempt, | 0:34:39 | 0:34:41 | |
a probation service that is there,
that is a safety net, | 0:34:41 | 0:34:44 | |
and will ensure people are doing
the best they can to get back into | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
society and to keep
the right side of law. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
We have done that. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:50 | |
We have given him
the chance but he has | 0:34:50 | 0:34:52 | |
blown it again. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:53 | |
I understand that. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:54 | |
But there is a real problem
in terms of protecting our | 0:34:54 | 0:35:00 | |
society, about making sure that
people are rehabilitated. | 0:35:00 | 0:35:02 | |
If someone commits a crime,
you can't just like everybody | 0:35:02 | 0:35:05 | |
up forever. | 0:35:05 | 0:35:06 | |
I'm sorry, let's get this clear. | 0:35:06 | 0:35:07 | |
This is the second time he has been
arrested and imprisoned | 0:35:07 | 0:35:10 | |
for these offences. | 0:35:10 | 0:35:11 | |
What he is saying is,
is that allowed to go on | 0:35:11 | 0:35:14 | |
all his life? | 0:35:14 | 0:35:15 | |
That it will never be
revealed who he is? | 0:35:15 | 0:35:17 | |
That it will be
a condition he will remain | 0:35:17 | 0:35:19 | |
anonymous? | 0:35:19 | 0:35:20 | |
I think, as people know,
the crimes he has committed now a | 0:35:20 | 0:35:23 | |
serious, but nothing is as serious
as the original crime he committed | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
as a child. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:27 | |
And the difficulty is that
if his anonymity is got rid of, | 0:35:27 | 0:35:31 | |
he will be at risk
of losing his life. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:33 | |
OK. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:35 | |
Does anybody else want to disagree
with the points that have | 0:35:35 | 0:35:38 | |
been made on the panel? | 0:35:38 | 0:35:41 | |
You at the very back, yes? | 0:35:41 | 0:35:42 | |
I personally believe,
obviously the initial | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
crime was horrendous. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:46 | |
I still remember watching the news. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:50 | |
You can imagine somebody that young
actually doing something like that. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:54 | |
Now you both mentioned we've got
a great justice system. | 0:35:54 | 0:35:57 | |
How about we set a precedent
and say, right, you | 0:35:57 | 0:36:05 | |
do it again, you're losing your
anonymity, simple as that. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
Put the ball in his court. | 0:36:09 | 0:36:11 | |
Let's see if he can
actually be rehabilitated. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:13 | |
I think those images
are seared in everybody's | 0:36:13 | 0:36:15 | |
memory, that little lad
going off in Bootle. | 0:36:15 | 0:36:17 | |
For me, the only positive thing,
if you like, that came out of | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
that was that it appeared these
young men, who must of had the most | 0:36:20 | 0:36:24 | |
unbearable upbringings to do
those sorts of crimes, | 0:36:24 | 0:36:31 | |
appear to have gone
through the system and it worked. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
They had achieved a level
of competence, they were able | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
to function. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:38 | |
And the only thing I would say
is the system is actually | 0:36:38 | 0:36:41 | |
working, so he is he is coming out,
they obviously know where | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
he is and what he is doing. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:45 | |
They're finding the fact
that he is consuming | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
imagery and is breaching the terms
of his licence | 0:36:48 | 0:36:50 | |
and going back to jail. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:51 | |
I'm not suggesting that
isn't a cycle that | 0:36:51 | 0:36:53 | |
should continue forever. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:54 | |
But I don't think
revealing his name does | 0:36:54 | 0:36:58 | |
anything to make the chances of him
doing that any less. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
The bigger problem,
actually Sir, the other | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
problem is how easy
it is to access that | 0:37:02 | 0:37:04 | |
stuff on the Internet. | 0:37:04 | 0:37:06 | |
And the work that we have done over
the years cross-party to | 0:37:06 | 0:37:09 | |
try and tighten up this
system so you can't | 0:37:09 | 0:37:11 | |
of stuff is hugely helpful. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:19 | |
Where is the fairness for the Bulger
family that are forced to relive | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
this every time this happens? | 0:37:25 | 0:37:26 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:27 | |
So what's your answer to that? | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
I don't think we
should be forced to. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
I think there should
be a lot more research | 0:37:31 | 0:37:35 | |
while they are serving inside,
to find out | 0:37:35 | 0:37:37 | |
whether they are safe to be
released. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
OK.
Yes, the woman in the middle? | 0:37:41 | 0:37:46 | |
It was two children
involved in that crime. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:48 | |
Robert Thompson served his time. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
Robert Thompson came out,
Robert Thompson was given anonymity. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
Nobody knows where he is. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:55 | |
What he is doing. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:56 | |
The same with Mary Bell. | 0:37:56 | 0:37:57 | |
They were given their opportunity. | 0:37:57 | 0:37:59 | |
They rehabilitated
and they came out. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:01 | |
This other gentleman hasn't. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:04 | |
And where do you draw the line
in allowing him to repeated and | 0:38:04 | 0:38:07 | |
repeated and repeated? | 0:38:07 | 0:38:09 | |
I totally agree with
the fellow at the back. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
One more chance, you've blown it,
your anonymity is gone. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
Where is the protection my children
or my grandchildren? | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
And as that lady says,
where's the justice for the | 0:38:17 | 0:38:19 | |
Bulger family? | 0:38:19 | 0:38:21 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:28 | |
Right, we're moving
on to another subject. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:31 | |
I have just to say to people
watching this problem that | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
I asked this audience
whether they wanted | 0:38:33 | 0:38:35 | |
discussed this week. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:41 | |
And I have to say, 75% of them said
they didn't want to discussed. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:45 | |
And yet the biggest pile
of questions we had was on this | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
very subject. | 0:38:48 | 0:38:49 | |
So I don't know where
you are coming from. | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
And I hope people at home
will forgive us because this | 0:38:52 | 0:38:54 | |
story moves on week by week. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:56 | |
Let's have this one. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:57 | |
It comes from Stuart Armstrong. | 0:38:57 | 0:38:58 | |
It's very pertinent to where
we are sitting here in Darlington. | 0:38:58 | 0:39:03 | |
Would 16% lower economic growth
in the north-east be a price | 0:39:03 | 0:39:06 | |
worth paying for a hard Brexit? | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
So, Richard Tice
wants a hard Brexit. | 0:39:09 | 0:39:12 | |
Hang on, David. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:13 | |
I want a clean, proper Brexit. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:15 | |
Let's be very clear. | 0:39:15 | 0:39:16 | |
Whatever you want to call it. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:21 | |
I don't know that a hard
one or a soft one. | 0:39:21 | 0:39:23 | |
You will explain. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:28 | |
A report came out this week
saying that growth in the | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
north-east would fall
by 16% if there was a hard Brexit. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:33 | |
Look, the reality
is about this, and of | 0:39:33 | 0:39:35 | |
economic forecasts, particularly
forecasts for 15 years out, you | 0:39:35 | 0:39:37 | |
know, garbage in equals garbage out
with these economic models. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:40 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:39:40 | 0:39:44 | |
These models were produced
by the same people who during the | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
referendum campaign of the Treasury
under the civil service, they said | 0:39:48 | 0:39:51 | |
that within a year we would be
in deep recession, we would lose | 0:39:51 | 0:39:54 | |
500,000 jobs, the tech firms
would leave, the banks would leave. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:57 | |
What's... | 0:39:57 | 0:39:58 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:39:58 | 0:40:00 | |
What a load of absolute rubbish. | 0:40:00 | 0:40:04 | |
We've got 400,000 more people
employed in this country. | 0:40:04 | 0:40:07 | |
We've got record low
levels of unemployment. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:09 | |
We've got so much to celebrate. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
And the great thing is
the opportunity is just beginning. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:15 | |
And here locally, here locally
near to Darlington, down | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
at Teesport, there is a wonderful
opportunity as long | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
as we leave the Customs Union,
because that is crucial. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
We can then have a free port. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
And free ports generate
thousands and thousands of | 0:40:26 | 0:40:28 | |
manufacturing jobs. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:30 | |
As your local Richmond
MP recently proved. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:33 | |
And that is a wonderful opportunity. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:35 | |
We need to rebalance the economy
towards more money for actual jobs | 0:40:35 | 0:40:38 | |
in less well-off areas. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:39 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:40:39 | 0:40:46 | |
So you dispute the facts,
but it did lead to a 16% drop | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
in the growth in this part
of the country, | 0:40:49 | 0:40:51 | |
would it be worth it? | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
-- if it led to a 16% drop, would it
be worth it? | 0:40:54 | 0:41:00 | |
That was the question. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:01 | |
That was the question. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:02 | |
You are a great believer in leaving. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
It is completely hypothetical. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:05 | |
We all know... | 0:41:05 | 0:41:06 | |
These people, they can't even
forecast one year in advance, | 0:41:06 | 0:41:08 | |
let alone 15. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:10 | |
To be honest with you,
the minute you say anything is gone | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
to be bad, Brexiteers always
say, that's rubbish! | 0:41:13 | 0:41:17 | |
Look, you've exaggerated how
bad it is going to be. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:19 | |
The reality is... | 0:41:19 | 0:41:21 | |
We've been proved right. | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
Listen, I saw you in 2015 say,
Brexit, leaving the EU is simple. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:29 | |
Everything is simple
when you are a bit simple. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
The reality is a 16% drop over
here is gone to cost | 0:41:33 | 0:41:38 | |
you something ridiculous
like one in six jobs. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:42 | |
The actual great recession
of the 1930s was a 15% drop. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:45 | |
AUDIENCE: Rubbish! | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
You are saying rubbish. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:48 | |
Good luck with that one. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:51 | |
Come and tell me how
you are getting on in a | 0:41:51 | 0:41:54 | |
few years' time, or 16 months' time. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:55 | |
Because you seem to be
very, very hopeful. | 0:41:55 | 0:42:02 | |
I don't see any upside to it. | 0:42:02 | 0:42:04 | |
So far the pound has tanked by 15%. | 0:42:04 | 0:42:06 | |
Is that a good sign that
things are getting better? | 0:42:06 | 0:42:08 | |
We've got the lowest
growth in the EU. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
You come and join the
celebration when we have got | 0:42:10 | 0:42:12 | |
more manufacturing jobs
in the north-east, we've got | 0:42:12 | 0:42:14 | |
a free ports, we have
rebalanced the economy. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
Based on what? | 0:42:16 | 0:42:17 | |
Based on what findings? | 0:42:17 | 0:42:22 | |
Is that based on the Economist? | 0:42:22 | 0:42:25 | |
The one who said there
was a minimum wage. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:27 | |
It's getting boring! | 0:42:27 | 0:42:28 | |
Boring! | 0:42:28 | 0:42:29 | |
Boring! | 0:42:29 | 0:42:30 | |
I can see why people... | 0:42:30 | 0:42:31 | |
If we are going to have arguments
conducted like this, | 0:42:31 | 0:42:33 | |
I can see why people get
bored with the argument. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
He needs to give his head a wobble. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:38 | |
Claire Perry? | 0:42:38 | 0:42:39 | |
You famously said
that some of your MPs | 0:42:39 | 0:42:41 | |
were representing... | 0:42:41 | 0:42:42 | |
No.
I did not. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:43 | |
What did you not say? | 0:42:43 | 0:42:44 | |
I do hate the way BBC
likes to do this. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
By the way, these
men shouting at each | 0:42:46 | 0:42:48 | |
other, it is a bit like Parliament. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
Tell me what you did not say. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
Let's answer the question. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:55 | |
Can I answer the question? | 0:42:55 | 0:42:56 | |
Tell me what you didn't say. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
What I said, what I didn't say
was that anyone who voted | 0:42:59 | 0:43:03 | |
Brexit was in any way
to have their views discounted, | 0:43:03 | 0:43:06 | |
because we went through the biggest
democratic exercise this | 0:43:06 | 0:43:08 | |
country has ever seen. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:11 | |
Emily and I were on one side
of the debate, probably with you, | 0:43:11 | 0:43:14 | |
Terry, Richard was on the other. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:15 | |
And you know what? | 0:43:15 | 0:43:16 | |
We said we'd respect
the result of the referendum. | 0:43:16 | 0:43:19 | |
We said we would deliver
what the people wanted | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
and the people voted for Brexit. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:22 | |
Hang on, but on my ballot paper... | 0:43:22 | 0:43:24 | |
Shut up, Terry! | 0:43:24 | 0:43:25 | |
Shut up, Terry. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:26 | |
On my ballot paper it didn't say
anything about leaving the single | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
market. | 0:43:29 | 0:43:30 | |
It's just like Parliament, ladies. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:31 | |
The blokes trying to
shout the ladies down. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:36 | |
No, I'm telling you what wasn't
on my ballot paper. | 0:43:36 | 0:43:38 | |
My ballot paper was Leave or Remain. | 0:43:38 | 0:43:40 | |
Terry, Terry, please. | 0:43:40 | 0:43:41 | |
Wait a second, Claire. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:42 | |
Terry, please. | 0:43:42 | 0:43:43 | |
Let Claire speak, will you? | 0:43:43 | 0:43:47 | |
Thank you. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:48 | |
So, to go to the question,
this question of is it worth it? | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 | |
I don't recognise those numbers
because they related to the sort | 0:43:51 | 0:43:54 | |
of off-the-shelf deals that
are out there. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:55 | |
Please, Terry! | 0:43:55 | 0:43:56 | |
Please don't interrupt her. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:57 | |
Let her have her say. | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
It's like my 15-year-old, Terry. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:00 | |
I'm just helping her. | 0:44:00 | 0:44:01 | |
No, you're not helping at all. | 0:44:01 | 0:44:02 | |
You're being really rude, actually. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:03 | |
I have to say. | 0:44:03 | 0:44:04 | |
No, I'm just helping her. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:06 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:08 | |
OK. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:13 | |
Whenever you go through a divorce,
you set off with a set | 0:44:13 | 0:44:16 | |
of negotiation objectives. | 0:44:16 | 0:44:17 | |
And then you negotiate. | 0:44:17 | 0:44:22 | |
I think it's right, actually,
we have the best civil service | 0:44:22 | 0:44:25 | |
in the world I think it's right
we look at the numbers, | 0:44:25 | 0:44:28 | |
we understand where we don't
want to go, which is to reduce | 0:44:28 | 0:44:30 | |
the growth in the economy. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:37 | |
Can I just say, for the north-east,
those numbers don't include | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
a couple of things. | 0:44:40 | 0:44:41 | |
They don't include the Sirius
project that will add 20% | 0:44:41 | 0:44:43 | |
to the Teesside economy. | 0:44:43 | 0:44:44 | |
They don't include the regeneration
potential from that amazing SSI site | 0:44:44 | 0:44:47 | |
that companies are queueing up
to invest in. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:49 | |
So, this is a worst-case scenario. | 0:44:49 | 0:44:50 | |
Frankly, and I say this
as a Remainer, because we have | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
to accept the result,
we can work together. | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
It's the time for the country to put
aside all this shouting over | 0:44:55 | 0:44:58 | |
the referendum and work together
on this historic task, | 0:44:58 | 0:45:00 | |
which we know we can do and we can
deliver a better place and better | 0:45:00 | 0:45:03 | |
growth and a global Brexit. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
Why, in that case, do you accuse... | 0:45:05 | 0:45:06 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:10 | |
Why, in that case, do you accuse
some of your colleagues | 0:45:10 | 0:45:14 | |
on the backbenches... | 0:45:14 | 0:45:14 | |
I did not do this. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:15 | |
I haven't said it yet! | 0:45:15 | 0:45:17 | |
I know what your going to say. | 0:45:17 | 0:45:18 | |
What? | 0:45:18 | 0:45:19 | |
You're going to say... | 0:45:19 | 0:45:20 | |
Swivel-eyed? | 0:45:20 | 0:45:21 | |
No. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:22 | |
They are representing swivel-eyed
constituents, you said. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:24 | |
No, I said in a private group,
one of the problems with social | 0:45:24 | 0:45:27 | |
media is that things leak,
that's a lesson for all of us, | 0:45:27 | 0:45:30 | |
what I said is I hate
extremism in any form. | 0:45:33 | 0:45:36 | |
And people who are shouting
about my colleagues, | 0:45:36 | 0:45:37 | |
all of whom swear an oath
of allegiance to the Queen | 0:45:37 | 0:45:40 | |
and calling them quislings
and traitors for expressing | 0:45:40 | 0:45:42 | |
their views in Parliament, I think
that language is disgraceful. | 0:45:42 | 0:45:44 | |
And I think the people that say
that, and they are not people | 0:45:44 | 0:45:48 | |
who chose to vote to leave the EU
these are extremist voices, | 0:45:48 | 0:45:50 | |
and there are too many
extremist voices, frankly, | 0:45:50 | 0:45:52 | |
on both sides of the debate. | 0:45:52 | 0:45:54 | |
Frankly, often, gentlemen,
shouting really loudly. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:55 | |
I'm not being extremist! | 0:45:55 | 0:45:56 | |
Rachel, hang on... | 0:45:56 | 0:45:57 | |
Can I just say something? | 0:45:57 | 0:45:59 | |
No, you can't. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:00 | |
Rachel first. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:01 | |
Sit quiet and wait. | 0:46:01 | 0:46:02 | |
Rachel is first. | 0:46:02 | 0:46:03 | |
I'll come back to you. | 0:46:03 | 0:46:04 | |
The new model that is going
to be manufactured... | 0:46:04 | 0:46:06 | |
And women can sometimes
talk over, too. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:08 | |
Rachel Sylvester, please. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:09 | |
I think this question goes
to the heart of why the Government | 0:46:09 | 0:46:12 | |
is in such a bind over Brexit. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:13 | |
I spoke to a minister recently
who said I've got to choose | 0:46:13 | 0:46:16 | |
between what I think
is in the national interest | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
and the party interest. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:19 | |
That's not true. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:21 | |
And I think Theresa May,
in her heart of hearts, | 0:46:21 | 0:46:23 | |
is unsure whether she is doing
the right thing in pursuing is quite | 0:46:23 | 0:46:26 | |
hard version of Brexit that
some in the Tory party | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
are encouraging her to. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:30 | |
And I think this goes to a wider
problem that this has got some stuff | 0:46:30 | 0:46:32 | |
And I think this goes
to a wider problem that this | 0:46:38 | 0:46:40 | |
has got so messed up | 0:46:40 | 0:46:41 | |
with party politics,
the politicians are putting | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
their parties, and thinking
about their parties, | 0:46:43 | 0:46:45 | |
rather than the voters. | 0:46:45 | 0:46:46 | |
Meanwhile, a lot of the reasons that
people voted for Brexit, | 0:46:46 | 0:46:48 | |
they actually aren't
all economic reasons. | 0:46:48 | 0:46:50 | |
They are reasons like public
services, things like the housing | 0:46:50 | 0:46:52 | |
crisis, issues that aren't
being dealt with. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:54 | |
And they are all being brushed under
the carpet and ignored. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:57 | |
And I think there is a real danger
that Brexit sort of becomes party | 0:46:57 | 0:47:00 | |
political squabble and the real
problems in the country | 0:47:00 | 0:47:02 | |
are not being dealt with. | 0:47:02 | 0:47:03 | |
OK, the man in the blue shirt? | 0:47:03 | 0:47:05 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:06 | |
When... | 0:47:06 | 0:47:08 | |
But Brexit is what the people want. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
Which people? | 0:47:11 | 0:47:12 | |
When you analyse the figures... | 0:47:12 | 0:47:13 | |
The people who voted... | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
Hang on, the man in the blue shirt,
are we hearing from you? | 0:47:16 | 0:47:19 | |
With the beard? | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
It is your turn to
speak, not Terry's. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:23 | |
Thank you. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
When will the hardline Remainers
on the political and media elite | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
of this country start to have some
faith in this country's ability | 0:47:29 | 0:47:32 | |
to perform on the world stage? | 0:47:32 | 0:47:33 | |
People like Terry. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:40 | |
What, the media elite!? | 0:47:40 | 0:47:41 | |
You mean like Boris... | 0:47:41 | 0:47:43 | |
Unlike those rebels
like Boris Johnson? | 0:47:43 | 0:47:47 | |
Let's hear one person at a time,
and not always you. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:51 | |
From the media, from the left side
of society, shouting over people. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:55 | |
Like him shouting about Brexit? | 0:47:55 | 0:47:56 | |
It's just arrogant. | 0:47:56 | 0:48:00 | |
They have no faith in this
country's ability to perform. | 0:48:00 | 0:48:02 | |
It is one of the world's most
powerful, strong, economically... | 0:48:02 | 0:48:05 | |
Have some faith. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:06 | |
Emily Thornberry? | 0:48:06 | 0:48:07 | |
The pound has tanked. | 0:48:07 | 0:48:10 | |
We are 21 months on
from the referendum. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:17 | |
And we are not having
a debate on a level | 0:48:17 | 0:48:20 | |
that we really need to have. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:27 | |
I think it is really unfortunate
that, on the one hand, | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
we have people accusing other
citizens of being swivel-eyed | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
loons, or racists. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
On the other side of the debate,
there are people saying | 0:48:34 | 0:48:36 | |
the other side are traitors. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:39 | |
Listen, we are in this together,
we are going to leave. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:43 | |
We only have about eight months now
to start making a decision about how | 0:48:43 | 0:48:47 | |
it is we are going to leave
and what it is we are going to do. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:51 | |
And I have to say, I find
it profoundly worrying | 0:48:51 | 0:48:54 | |
that the Cabinet, who are the ones
who are going to have | 0:48:54 | 0:48:57 | |
to make the decisions
about how we are negotiating, | 0:48:57 | 0:49:00 | |
are only now starting
to have a discussion | 0:49:00 | 0:49:02 | |
about whether or not we should be
in the customs union. | 0:49:02 | 0:49:06 | |
I mean, for heaven's sake,
this is the future of our country. | 0:49:06 | 0:49:08 | |
I tell you what, guys,
I would like to speak | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
without you interrupting. | 0:49:11 | 0:49:13 | |
It's about the future of our country
and the future of our children. | 0:49:13 | 0:49:19 | |
And it does seem to me that we have
to come to a deal that | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
will work for all the regions
and all the nations of our country. | 0:49:22 | 0:49:25 | |
And this is why we need
to come together and stop | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
shouting at each other. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:30 | |
All right. | 0:49:30 | 0:49:31 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
Let's try to finish this
discussion without shouting. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
The woman there, the
person in spectacles? | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
Man or a woman? | 0:49:40 | 0:49:41 | |
Yes, you. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
I totally agree, I think the problem
with politics at the moment | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
is there is too much politics. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:49 | |
There is too much ranting
at each other about Brexit, | 0:49:49 | 0:49:52 | |
about the consequences
of the election as well. | 0:49:52 | 0:49:55 | |
I recently set up a petition about
having a government of shared unity. | 0:49:55 | 0:50:01 | |
And that is an idea of actually
having party leaders coming | 0:50:01 | 0:50:04 | |
together as a union. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:08 | |
So, not actually having the role
of a Prime Minister and sorting | 0:50:08 | 0:50:11 | |
stuff out like Brexit. | 0:50:11 | 0:50:12 | |
Because Brexit, people don't really
understand what it has | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
meant for the country. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:17 | |
And I think Brexit is
actually England, well, | 0:50:17 | 0:50:20 | |
Great Britain, deciding to... | 0:50:20 | 0:50:23 | |
Like... | 0:50:23 | 0:50:28 | |
Have their own decisions
about their own country. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
How it runs. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
And it's not we hate foreigners,
it's we just want to make our own | 0:50:34 | 0:50:38 | |
decision of certain aspects
to benefit the country we live in. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:44 | |
So what would be the first decision
you make when we've left the EU? | 0:50:44 | 0:50:47 | |
What is the EU stopping
us from deciding? | 0:50:47 | 0:50:52 | |
Every country... | 0:50:52 | 0:50:53 | |
Is individual. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:56 | |
Germany trade with China,
we can trade with who we want. | 0:50:56 | 0:51:00 | |
That's a lie. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
Sorry, I cannot believe
a word you're saying. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:07 | |
Well, I'm telling you, it's a lie. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:09 | |
We can trade with who we like. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:12 | |
If we've got a majority, 52 to 48,
and we all agree that | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
it's going to happen,
and we all agree were | 0:51:15 | 0:51:17 | |
going to leave the EU,
and were going to leave the customs | 0:51:17 | 0:51:21 | |
union, then forget hard,
forget soft, right, | 0:51:21 | 0:51:23 | |
we are the fifth-stroke-sixth
largest trading nation in the world. | 0:51:23 | 0:51:26 | |
Sixth or seventh. | 0:51:26 | 0:51:28 | |
You're telling me Europe doesn't
want to trade with us? | 0:51:28 | 0:51:31 | |
Get out of it. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:32 | |
We need to be resolute
and stand together. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:40 | |
It a very basic question for me. | 0:51:41 | 0:51:43 | |
I said that none of you wanted
to talk about Brexit. | 0:51:43 | 0:51:45 | |
75% of you didn't want
to talk about Brexit. | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
A very basic question for me. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:49 | |
How do we become wealthier
by leaving the richest | 0:51:49 | 0:51:52 | |
trading bloc in the world? | 0:51:52 | 0:51:53 | |
Terry! | 0:51:53 | 0:51:54 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:51:54 | 0:51:55 | |
Have a biscuit, calm down, dear. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:56 | |
This is a question
from Rachel Wearmouth. | 0:51:56 | 0:51:58 | |
Let's have your question. | 0:51:58 | 0:51:59 | |
The last five minutes
of the programme. | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
100 years on, what still needs to be
done to encourage more women | 0:52:01 | 0:52:04 | |
to go into politics? | 0:52:04 | 0:52:05 | |
Thank you for a great question. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:06 | |
Who would like to start on it? | 0:52:06 | 0:52:08 | |
Rachel, you start on this one. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
I think the tone of
politics is actually one | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
of the most important things. | 0:52:12 | 0:52:14 | |
I've been covering politics
now for about 20 years. | 0:52:14 | 0:52:18 | |
And the number of women has gone up
hugely in the House of Commons, | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
and it's changed a lot. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:23 | |
But all the talk about sexual
harassment or whatever, | 0:52:23 | 0:52:27 | |
the thing that really puts people
off is seeing men shouting at each | 0:52:27 | 0:52:30 | |
other across the dispatch box. | 0:52:30 | 0:52:31 | |
And also, the... | 0:52:31 | 0:52:33 | |
And also the really nasty,
vile stuff that particularly | 0:52:33 | 0:52:36 | |
women MPs get on Twitter. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:43 | |
I'm sure both Claire
and Emily have had this. | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
There are death threats,
I know women MPs who have had to put | 0:52:46 | 0:52:49 | |
seven locks on the doors
because they are so | 0:52:49 | 0:52:51 | |
frightened at night. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:52 | |
Both within parties, actually,
and from outside parties, | 0:52:52 | 0:52:54 | |
and I think the party leaders have
to be much stronger about that. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:57 | |
And it's the tone and the nature
of the political debate | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
that has got to change. | 0:53:00 | 0:53:02 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:04 | |
Emily Thornberry? | 0:53:04 | 0:53:08 | |
I think it really helps having more
women in Parliament. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:11 | |
And I think that young girls looking
at Parliament can see | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
that there is more women around. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
And I hear what you say. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:18 | |
It is tough. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:20 | |
But I'm not a victim. | 0:53:20 | 0:53:21 | |
I'm doing the best job in the world. | 0:53:21 | 0:53:27 | |
I'm doing the best job in the world. | 0:53:27 | 0:53:29 | |
And any 15-year-old girl
watching television tonight, | 0:53:29 | 0:53:35 | |
you want to be involved in power,
if you want to be involved | 0:53:35 | 0:53:38 | |
in making decisions,
it seems to me there | 0:53:38 | 0:53:40 | |
are lots of things that have been
politically neglected. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:42 | |
And areas that are quite
often things that women | 0:53:42 | 0:53:44 | |
feel strongly about. | 0:53:44 | 0:53:45 | |
We've talked about the NHS,
we've talked about social care. | 0:53:45 | 0:53:47 | |
We've talked about childbirth. | 0:53:47 | 0:53:48 | |
There are lots of things that,
actually, I think are neglected | 0:53:48 | 0:53:51 | |
and probably will be talked
about much more if more | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
women were involved. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:56 | |
But, anyway, even parking that,
there is everything else. | 0:53:56 | 0:53:58 | |
There's everything else. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:02 | |
And we have as good and as strong
a say as anyone else and we need | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
to get more women involved. | 0:54:05 | 0:54:07 | |
And yes, the more women we get,
the more that women will think | 0:54:07 | 0:54:10 | |
this is a job for me. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:11 | |
I can do this job as well. | 0:54:11 | 0:54:13 | |
In the end, you don't need any
political qualifications, | 0:54:13 | 0:54:15 | |
you don't need to go to university
and get a degree, being | 0:54:15 | 0:54:18 | |
an MP, or anything else. | 0:54:18 | 0:54:19 | |
You just need to be a good, strong,
voice for your community and be | 0:54:19 | 0:54:23 | |
proud, and speak out,
be brave and be bold, | 0:54:23 | 0:54:25 | |
and it's a job for girls. | 0:54:25 | 0:54:28 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:54:33 | 0:54:34 | |
There is an arm up
there, and I can't see | 0:54:34 | 0:54:36 | |
who it is attached to. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:38 | |
But, anyway, with the long-sleeve. | 0:54:38 | 0:54:39 | |
Yes, that person, yes. | 0:54:39 | 0:54:41 | |
It's you. | 0:54:41 | 0:54:44 | |
I think the main thing is that
politics needs to appeal | 0:54:44 | 0:54:46 | |
to younger people more. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:48 | |
Because that will be the next
generation of MPs and people | 0:54:48 | 0:54:51 | |
who work in Westminster. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:52 | |
A lot of my friends,
when I talk about it, | 0:54:52 | 0:54:55 | |
they will say, well,
politics doesn't affect me, | 0:54:55 | 0:54:56 | |
it doesn't interest me. | 0:54:56 | 0:55:01 | |
Actually, when you start to look
into it you think, well, | 0:55:01 | 0:55:04 | |
actually, it does affect me. | 0:55:04 | 0:55:05 | |
And that is when you
become more interested. | 0:55:05 | 0:55:08 | |
I think as well, to them,
they will think, actually, | 0:55:08 | 0:55:11 | |
I do want to go into that. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:12 | |
Rather than saying, oh,
women, come and join us, | 0:55:12 | 0:55:15 | |
you need to say, actually,
politics as a whole, come | 0:55:15 | 0:55:17 | |
and have a lot of interest in us. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:19 | |
And that is when more people
will join, and more women. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:22 | |
Claire Perry? | 0:55:22 | 0:55:23 | |
I completely agree with Emily. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:24 | |
I have to say, the more women get
in, the more the tone changes. | 0:55:24 | 0:55:27 | |
This is what happens all the time. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
Lots of people shouting
about the theory of things, and, | 0:55:31 | 0:55:34 | |
actually, women in general,
cross-party, work together | 0:55:34 | 0:55:36 | |
to get things done. | 0:55:36 | 0:55:39 | |
Actually, the essence of being an MP
is standing up for a constituency | 0:55:39 | 0:55:42 | |
that you love and is trying to help
people in it. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
And that's the stuff you don't write
press releases about. | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
You just do it. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:48 | |
And I think women, frankly, do that,
as well as men, very well. | 0:55:48 | 0:55:51 | |
But I would change
one thing radically. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:53 | |
We are about to embark,
at some point, on restoring | 0:55:53 | 0:55:55 | |
the Palace of Westminster,
which is the cradle of democracy. | 0:55:55 | 0:55:58 | |
It's beautiful, but they want to do
it at the minimum amount | 0:55:58 | 0:56:00 | |
of costs to taxpayers. | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
Why don't we have a chamber that
isn't based on how far men used | 0:56:02 | 0:56:06 | |
to have to stand not to kill each
other with swords, | 0:56:06 | 0:56:08 | |
which is where the measurement
of the chamber came from? | 0:56:08 | 0:56:11 | |
Why can't we have a more consensual
setup that doesn't encourage people | 0:56:11 | 0:56:14 | |
to yell at each other
across the dispatch box? | 0:56:14 | 0:56:16 | |
That would definitely help. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:17 | |
Richard Tice? | 0:56:17 | 0:56:19 | |
Emily was 110% right. | 0:56:20 | 0:56:22 | |
It is fantastic. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:25 | |
I was interested, what attracts
you is just power. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:28 | |
Yes! | 0:56:28 | 0:56:30 | |
Hopefully, what attracts politicians
is making a difference, improving... | 0:56:30 | 0:56:33 | |
But you can't make
a difference without power, | 0:56:33 | 0:56:35 | |
that's the whole point! | 0:56:35 | 0:56:36 | |
That's the whole point. | 0:56:36 | 0:56:38 | |
Politics is about power
and when you close your eyes, | 0:56:38 | 0:56:40 | |
who you are thinking about. | 0:56:40 | 0:56:45 | |
And how you're making
those decisions. | 0:56:45 | 0:56:46 | |
Could you not shout
at me so I can speak? | 0:56:46 | 0:56:49 | |
I'm just telling you. | 0:56:49 | 0:56:52 | |
I am quite passionate about this. | 0:56:52 | 0:56:54 | |
A brief last word, and then Terry? | 0:56:54 | 0:56:56 | |
To encourage more people
into politics, we have got to do | 0:56:56 | 0:56:59 | |
something about the abuse
on social media. | 0:56:59 | 0:57:00 | |
When we go home tonight,
it will be absolutely horrendous out | 0:57:00 | 0:57:03 | |
there in terms of the trolling. | 0:57:03 | 0:57:03 | |
Terry? | 0:57:06 | 0:57:09 | |
It's strange, because we think
we are over it in this country, | 0:57:09 | 0:57:12 | |
you know, the sexism in politics. | 0:57:12 | 0:57:14 | |
Yet what is very telling,
and this week it is the 100th | 0:57:14 | 0:57:17 | |
anniversary of women,
you know, fighting... | 0:57:17 | 0:57:18 | |
Some women. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:19 | |
Women fighting to get the vote,
some women, yes, 100 years ago. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:23 | |
But I've heard the phrase
given the vote. | 0:57:23 | 0:57:25 | |
They were not given the vote,
they fought for the vote. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:32 | |
You know, there is
still a long way to go. | 0:57:32 | 0:57:35 | |
OK, we are on our second
female Prime Minister. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 | |
Well, yeah, good! | 0:57:37 | 0:57:38 | |
To me, I think we would let
the Downing Street cat do a better | 0:57:38 | 0:57:41 | |
job, but it's great that
she's got there. | 0:57:41 | 0:57:43 | |
But the reality is,
if you look around the world, | 0:57:43 | 0:57:46 | |
there is still a long way
for women to go. | 0:57:46 | 0:57:48 | |
I was quite moved by those women
in Iran, doing the hijab protest. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:51 | |
You know, that, to me,
is something that we should applaud. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
That is a sign of how far women have
got to go in politics, | 0:57:54 | 0:57:57 | |
not just in this country,
but all around the world. | 0:57:57 | 0:58:00 | |
OK, we have to stop. | 0:58:00 | 0:58:01 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:58:01 | 0:58:03 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:58:05 | 0:58:09 | |
Next Thursday
we are going to be in | 0:58:14 | 0:58:16 | |
the Fleet Air Arm Museum At Yeovil. | 0:58:16 | 0:58:18 | |
And the week after that we are going
to be at the JCB plant in Uttoxeter. | 0:58:18 | 0:58:22 | |
If you'd like to come to either
of those two Question Time editions, | 0:58:22 | 0:58:25 | |
call 0330 123 99 88. | 0:58:25 | 0:58:26 | |
You can apply online to the website
address, which is there. | 0:58:26 | 0:58:28 | |
If you want to have your say
on the many things that have | 0:58:28 | 0:58:32 | |
aroused our panel and audience
tonight, join Question Time Extra | 0:58:32 | 0:58:34 | |
Time on BBC 5 Live now and also
you can watch it on the iPlayer. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:38 | |
My thanks to our panel
and to all of you who came | 0:58:38 | 0:58:44 | |
to Darlington to take part in this
edition of Question Time. | 0:58:44 | 0:58:46 | |
Until next Thursday, Good night. | 0:58:46 | 0:58:48 | |
APPLAUSE. | 0:58:48 | 0:58:51 |