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Tonight, we are in Yeovil
and welcome to Question Time. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:14 | |
And we are actually not
precisely in Yeovil. | 0:00:17 | 0:00:19 | |
We are in the Fleet Air Arm
Museum at Yeovilton, | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
which is just outside Yeovil. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:24 | |
On our panel tonight,
the former Secretary of State | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
for Northern Ireland,
who was a member of | 0:00:26 | 0:00:28 | |
the European Parliament,
then voted for Brexit, | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
and is a Conservative MP,
Theresa Villiers. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:34 | |
David Lammy, Labour MP for the same
London constituency for 18 years, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
a minister in both Blair
and the Brown governments. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:42 | |
The managing director of the frozen
food company Iceland, | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
which currently recently became
the first big retailer in Britain | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
to pledge to get rid of plastic
packaging within five years, | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
Richard Walker. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
And the economist, writer,
campaigner, who used to work | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
for the charity Save the Children,
Faiza Shaheen. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
And the former Sunday Times
journalist who became | 0:01:00 | 0:01:04 | |
David Cameron's head of policy,
now in the House of Lords, | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
Camilla Cavendish. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:24 | |
And remember, as always,
from home you can argue these issues | 0:01:24 | 0:01:29 | |
using #BBCQT on Twitter
and on Facebook. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:33 | |
Let's have our first question,
which comes from Victoria McGregor. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:39 | |
Would you still make
a donation to Oxfam? | 0:01:39 | 0:01:45 | |
David Lammy. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:48 | |
Yes. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:49 | |
Just about. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:50 | |
And that's because there is so much
to do across the world, | 0:01:50 | 0:01:57 | |
and Oxfam and a number of aid
agencies have been leading the way. | 0:01:57 | 0:02:03 | |
There are 130 million young
girls across the world | 0:02:03 | 0:02:08 | |
who are not being educated. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
In our own country, we are pledged
to get 11 million of those young | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
girls educated by 2020. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:22 | |
I think of Ebola, and diseases
across the world like malaria, | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
which we could overcome,
and the wonderful work that | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
taxpayers in this country
have contributed to. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:31 | |
So I know that there is a debate
about getting rid of aid entirely. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:35 | |
It's not one I agree with. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
Having said that, this is a moment
for the aid agencies to step up | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
and understand why the public
are so upset. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
The old-fashioned idea,
it seems to me, of someone | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
flying in from Holland,
on this occasion, to Haiti, | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
gap year kids, working
and doing good to the poor, | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
has got to end. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:57 | |
I've been critical of the way
in which Africa and development aid | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
is sometimes portrayed
as if immigrants from those | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
countries don't give three
times more, actually, | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
sent back in remittances,
than the aid agencies or taxpayers. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:11 | |
So there's a lot that's got
to change and this is a moment | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
in which I hope that happens. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:15 | |
But I'd also say this one point,
that in the end we, in this country | 0:03:15 | 0:03:20 | |
and other Western countries,
also have to remember the role | 0:03:20 | 0:03:24 | |
we played in the carve up
of the African continent, | 0:03:24 | 0:03:30 | |
the Indian continent,
our imperious and colonialist past, | 0:03:30 | 0:03:34 | |
that means whilst we need reform
in aid it would be absolutely | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
objectionable for this country
to withdraw from its international | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
obligations to the very
poorest in the world. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:44 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:03:44 | 0:03:52 | |
Of course, the question arises
from the 2011 cover-up, | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
as Oxfam was accused of their staff
in Haiti using prostitutes. | 0:03:56 | 0:04:02 | |
Faiza Shaheen, what do you think? | 0:04:02 | 0:04:05 | |
What we've heard over the last week
is incredibly disappointing. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
I hear it when people
say that "I'm not sure | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
"if I could give money any more". | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
The thing is of course... | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
And it's absolutely right
that those in senior positions | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
and those involved should
consider their positions. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
But the big thing is that despicable
people cannot stop good people | 0:04:22 | 0:04:27 | |
from doing good work,
and doing good deeds. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
This is humanitarian work. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:32 | |
We are humans. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:35 | |
We need to retain that,
we need to fight for that. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
I totally agree that the development
agencies need to do a lot more. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:44 | |
For the last few months
we have heard a lot | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
about the abuse of power. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
We've heard about it in Hollywood,
we've heard about it in Parliament | 0:04:48 | 0:04:51 | |
and we've heard about it in sports. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
And this is just another place where
that societal problem is clear, | 0:04:54 | 0:05:00 | |
that when you give people too much
power, they can abuse that. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:06 | |
Not always, of course,
but they can abuse that. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:08 | |
So we need to do a lot more
on the safeguards and we need to do | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
a lot more to make sure that some
of what happened in terms of not | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
being known that this guy managed
to get another job afterwards, | 0:05:16 | 0:05:20 | |
that that can't happen again. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
And that's the sort of thing we need
to make sure they do now. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
So what I would say
to you is if Oxfam and other | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
development agencies can't show
that they are making that | 0:05:28 | 0:05:30 | |
difference, that they are shifting
their funds and shifting the way | 0:05:30 | 0:05:34 | |
that they are doing things,
then that's the point | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
at which you say, "OK,
they haven't changed their ways". | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
Can I just put to you a quotation
from the Oxfam staff training manual | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
and ask you whether you think this
is a proper or adequate | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
answer to this? | 0:05:45 | 0:05:46 | |
It was written in 2006 and it
says, "We haven't banned | 0:05:46 | 0:05:50 | |
"the use of prostitutes
but we strongly discourage it". | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
Is that enough? | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
No. | 0:05:55 | 0:05:56 | |
I don't think that's enough. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:58 | |
What do you think
they should be saying? | 0:05:58 | 0:06:00 | |
Well, look, it just shouldn't have
happened, they shouldn't | 0:06:00 | 0:06:03 | |
be using prostitutes. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:04 | |
Look, I worked for Save the Children
for just 18 months and the issues | 0:06:04 | 0:06:09 | |
that are coming out here of quite
macho environments are things that | 0:06:09 | 0:06:14 | |
of course are there in the sector. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
And I saw them. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
And there was a bigger issue,
and I completely support | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
the use of foreign aid,
and we need to think about... | 0:06:20 | 0:06:25 | |
I was there when the Ebola outbreak
happened, and you think about people | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
that go there and help people. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
They are heroes, often. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:32 | |
And we often find that
if we had not have made those | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
interventions at that time,
can you imagine what would have | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
happened if that disease
had spread further? | 0:06:39 | 0:06:40 | |
So it's really worth
that investment. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:42 | |
But there's a lot of change
that does need to happen | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
within the development sector
and this is the time to do it. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
The person in blue that
had their hand up. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:50 | |
I'm a charity worker myself,
and whilst there is always | 0:06:50 | 0:06:55 | |
going to be bad apples in any
organisation and safeguarding | 0:06:55 | 0:06:57 | |
is about minimising the risk,
isn't this a society issue? | 0:06:57 | 0:07:01 | |
Why are we starting... | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
I know there's an issue with Oxfam
and we can start cherrypicking, | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
but this is an issue
with all of our societies. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:14 | |
OK, and the person
with their hand up. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:15 | |
Keep your hand up
if you want to speak. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
Yes, you. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:19 | |
I work with a couple of West Country
charities that have been | 0:07:19 | 0:07:22 | |
through a difficult period recently,
and one of the problems | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
is that the Charity Commission
is a toothless regulator. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:27 | |
And what Oxfam shows
is that it is a toothless regulator, | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
because it looked at this problem
a while ago and moved away | 0:07:30 | 0:07:34 | |
without finding the real issue. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:36 | |
And it didn't dig to find
out what was going on. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:39 | |
No, and it doesn't. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:40 | |
And if we're not dealing with... | 0:07:40 | 0:07:41 | |
If the Charity Commission is not
focused on preventing | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
financing foreign terrorism,
which is what the government have | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
tasked it to look at,
it ignores virtually everything else | 0:07:47 | 0:07:49 | |
until it hits the papers. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
Richard Walker. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:53 | |
I mean, look, what happened
was beyond reprehensible. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
To exploit the most vulnerable
in some of the most vulnerable | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
areas in the world. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:02 | |
And I hope it serves as a wake-up
call for the sector. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:07 | |
And now the spotlight is on,
I'm sure more will come out. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
But from any organisation's point
of view, in business | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
or in the charitable sector,
you need to ensure that positions | 0:08:14 | 0:08:19 | |
of power are not abused,
and that people who have been abused | 0:08:19 | 0:08:24 | |
can be facilitated to come
forward and speak up. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:28 | |
So I would argue that Oxfam urgently
need to step up and show leadership, | 0:08:28 | 0:08:33 | |
because I'm really worried
about the future of this | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
amazing organisation
which is being poisoned | 0:08:36 | 0:08:38 | |
by a few people. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:40 | |
Would you still make a donation? | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
I would, yes. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:43 | |
Because to not make that
donation is almost to doubly | 0:08:43 | 0:08:48 | |
hurt those people that
need our help the most. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:08:52 | 0:08:59 | |
Camilla Cavendish. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
So, I don't think this is a debate,
or should be a debate | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
about shutting down aid. | 0:09:04 | 0:09:05 | |
I think this is a debate
about accountability. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:10 | |
And I agree. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:11 | |
We can't just single out Oxfam. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:13 | |
There are clearly issues,
unfortunately, emerging | 0:09:13 | 0:09:16 | |
across the board. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:17 | |
But the truth is that I think
if I was running Oxfam, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
and I was an aid worker a long time
ago and I know how chaotic | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
it is and that there are great
people working on the front line, | 0:09:23 | 0:09:26 | |
and I know how these things,
I can imagine how these | 0:09:26 | 0:09:29 | |
things can go wrong. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:31 | |
If I had been running Oxfam,
I would have shut down | 0:09:31 | 0:09:33 | |
that operation in Haiti. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
I would have fired that guy,
rather than paying him off | 0:09:35 | 0:09:38 | |
so he would get a job somewhere else
and I would have put my hands up. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
That wouldn't have shut
down the help to Haiti. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
All that would have meant was that
other agencies who were already | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
there would have moved in. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:48 | |
But the truth is that I am very
uncomfortable with a big | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
organisation covering things up,
passing on monstrous employees | 0:09:51 | 0:09:57 | |
with appalling behaviour. | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
And by the way, it's only two years
ago since Oxfam and other charities | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
Something has gone wrong in that
organisation, I'm sorry to say. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:07 | |
And I think this is a deep
issue of accountability. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:09 | |
I've not actually donated
to Oxfam myself for years. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
I donate to Medecins Sans Frontieres
and smaller charities where I feel | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
I really know the money's
going to the front line. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
But that's a personal decision. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:18 | |
But I don't think it's OK
for institutions to say that | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
because their mission is to help
the vulnerable they | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
are not accountable. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:24 | |
That, to me, is wrong and we need
to do something about it. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:10:27 | 0:10:33 | |
The speaker at the back said
the Charities Commission wasn't | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
doing its job either because it
didn't pick up on this and didn't | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
investigate it properly
and they are the watchdog. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:42 | |
I think that's a very
interesting issue. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:44 | |
I know some of the work
of the Charities Commission, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
which actually has been very
effective. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
I think you were talking
about terrorism and that aspect. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
Maybe they have
focused on that more. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:53 | |
I think regulators always
have a difficult job. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
I'm sure more should be done. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:57 | |
But you know what? | 0:10:57 | 0:10:58 | |
Oxfam shouldn't have let this
happen in the first place. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
That's kind of... | 0:11:00 | 0:11:01 | |
Theresa Villiers. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:02 | |
It is repellent that people
who were there to help vulnerable | 0:11:02 | 0:11:08 | |
people ended up exploiting them. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
So I think for the moment,
if we are making a donation, | 0:11:11 | 0:11:13 | |
I would prefer to give to
a different aid charity than Oxfam | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
until Oxfam can prove it
has cleaned up its act. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:24 | |
I agree with the speaker at the back
who said that unfortunately people | 0:11:25 | 0:11:28 | |
who abuse power are present
in all sectors of society. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:30 | |
The crucial thing now is for the aid
sector as a whole to make sure | 0:11:30 | 0:11:35 | |
they have the most robust possible
safeguarding mechanisms so that | 0:11:35 | 0:11:36 | |
whistle-blowers can come forward,
victims can come forward, | 0:11:36 | 0:11:38 | |
and so this type of abuse
is detected at an early stage | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
and stopped in its tracks. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
But I am convinced that we should
continue, as individuals | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
and as taxpayers, to donate
to development aid. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
It is crucial, not only just
for the moral reasons of helping | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
some of the poorest and most
disadvantaged in the world, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
but it is also crucial I think
for our interests as a nation. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
I take as an example the fact that
UK taxpayers' aid has supported | 0:12:01 | 0:12:07 | |
almost 65 million people to have
access to clean water | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
and health care. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
Now that kind of project
is essential in tackling | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
antimicrobial resistance. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
And you support the 0.7% of GDP
going to aid, do you? | 0:12:19 | 0:12:21 | |
I do. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
Which many people criticise
on the grounds that it's | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
a lot of money and could
be used elsewhere. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:27 | |
Unequivocal support you have for it? | 0:12:27 | 0:12:28 | |
I support the 0.7% target. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:32 | |
It is a lot of money but there
is a moral case to do this. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
But there are also very sensible,
practical reasons why | 0:12:35 | 0:12:37 | |
it is in the interests
of the United Kingdom | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
to spend this money. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:40 | |
Camilla, do you agree? | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
I don't support the 0.7% target. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:46 | |
Not because I don't think that aid
is important or because I don't | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
think we have done some great things
as a country, but because when you | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
set a target like that
and you set it in stone, | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
it becomes an enormous incentive
for people to spend money | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
without thinking it through. | 0:12:58 | 0:12:59 | |
And that's why I have never actually
supported that target. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
And many years ago I started
writing about Ethiopia, | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
which is a huge recipient of British
aid, where the government | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
was using aid to silence dissidents. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
And I wrote, with the help
of Human Rights Watch, | 0:13:10 | 0:13:13 | |
and I couldn't get the government
to talk to me and I couldn't get | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
the agencies to talk to me
because they had too much invested, | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
and they had essentially too
much vested interest | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
in continuing the flow of money. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
Did you say this to David Cameron
when you were working for him, | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
in the policy unit? | 0:13:27 | 0:13:28 | |
For many years I have
said that to him. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:30 | |
And he took no notice. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:31 | |
He believes, I am sure
he still does and he did then, | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
absolutely passionately in aid. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:35 | |
He believes in helping
the most vulnerable. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
That is great. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:38 | |
What I object to and what I worry
about is when you set a target | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
in stone you set create a strange
set of incentives. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
You, sir. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:45 | |
I run a charity. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:46 | |
The Charities Commission
has been given dozens | 0:13:46 | 0:13:48 | |
of new powers by the government
to investigate charities. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
It just isn't using them because it
doesn't have the resources to do so. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:53 | |
Why has it taken a national
scandal for them finally | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
to investigate Oxfam? | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
And your answer to that is? | 0:13:57 | 0:13:58 | |
They are short of resources. | 0:13:58 | 0:13:59 | |
The woman there on the left. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:01 | |
Andrew Mitchell was the Secretary
of State when this scandal took | 0:14:01 | 0:14:03 | |
place and he said that the reason
he didn't know about it is because | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
Oxfam described it as misconduct,
and the officials at DfID | 0:14:07 | 0:14:13 | |
took it no further. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:17 | |
So surely there is
culpability there. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:19 | |
If something came through my desk | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
that said "misconduct",
my first question would be, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
"What kind of misconduct"? | 0:14:23 | 0:14:25 | |
They didn't ask the question. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
Right, he was a minister in your
party's government, what do you say? | 0:14:28 | 0:14:33 | |
Oxfam should have described the type
of misconduct that it was. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
But she says if you get a thing
on your paper saying | 0:14:36 | 0:14:39 | |
"misconduct" you investigate. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:40 | |
You don't just say,
"Oh, misconduct". | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
Well, I mean, certainly
in hindsight they should have | 0:14:42 | 0:14:44 | |
asked more questions. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
But the real culpability
here is with Oxfam for not | 0:14:46 | 0:14:48 | |
disclosing the nature
of what happened. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:51 | |
Any more points for anyone,
otherwise I will go | 0:14:51 | 0:14:53 | |
on to the next question. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:54 | |
Yes, you sir. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
Will all these people that's been
caught now be blacklisted and stop | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
from working within charities? | 0:15:00 | 0:15:01 | |
In the future? | 0:15:01 | 0:15:02 | |
David Lammy? | 0:15:02 | 0:15:03 | |
God I hope so. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
I mean look, the point,
I think the point is about power. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
De facto. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
If you are coming from Britain
to any of these countries, you have | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
considerable power. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:16 | |
You land in those countries,
you see the jeeps | 0:15:16 | 0:15:18 | |
that people go around in. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:19 | |
The salaries they get
a significantly | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
higher than local people. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
What we've got to do
is we've got to bend | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
towards the south. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:29 | |
You need local workers,
local community, you've got | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
to lift them up. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:32 | |
Far more than Westerners arriving. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
Of course they've got to be sacked. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:39 | |
Let me just say,
Oxfam have got to move | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
rapidly to show they have heard. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:49 | |
There has got to be more people
looking at their positions and | 0:15:50 | 0:15:53 | |
stepping aside. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:54 | |
Fresh people have got
to arrive, they've got to be | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
southern -based,
connected to the ground. | 0:15:57 | 0:15:58 | |
To really demonstrate
they've got it. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:00 | |
And lots and lots of other
agencies have to follow that | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
as well. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:03 | |
When taxpayers are funding Oxfam,
£32 million, it does require | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
greater scrutiny. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:07 | |
That's why it is right that
ministers are asking | 0:16:07 | 0:16:14 | |
questions about what that misconduct
was and the charity commission | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
isn't just a toothless regulator. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:18 | |
Absolutely. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:19 | |
OK. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:21 | |
Right, before we go
onto next question... | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
Question Time next Thursday
comes from Uttoxeter. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
And the week after
that from Blackpool. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:32 | |
Details of how to get to Uttoxeter
or Blackpool if you want | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
to come to the programme
are on the screen. | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
I will as ever give them at the end. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
I'll take this question now please
from Ruth Binney, please. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
If biscuits and other
highly processed | 0:16:43 | 0:16:44 | |
foods are damaging the nation's
health, isn't it time for them to be | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
taxed? | 0:16:47 | 0:16:49 | |
I think this is based
on a report today. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:52 | |
The French government saying
people who use highly | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
processed foods are more
likely to get cancer. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:57 | |
Well, Iceland... | 0:16:57 | 0:17:04 | |
Highly processed foods and biscuits. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:05 | |
I picked a good week to come on. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
You did. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:08 | |
75 chicken nuggets for £3. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:09 | |
Actually... | 0:17:09 | 0:17:10 | |
You answer the question. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:14 | |
Something that has been annoying me
about the press today is the chicken | 0:17:14 | 0:17:17 | |
nuggets. | 0:17:17 | 0:17:19 | |
It's been used as an example
of an ultra-processed food. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
Our chicken nuggets
are made from 100% chicken. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:25 | |
Come on! | 0:17:25 | 0:17:27 | |
And breadcrumbs. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
There is an important point here. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
What did you say your
company was called? | 0:17:33 | 0:17:35 | |
What is wrong with that
other than snobbery? | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
OK. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:40 | |
Shall I go down the rest
of the list or not? | 0:17:40 | 0:17:42 | |
24 cans of Pepsi for £6.50. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
42 packets... | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
I don't know why this matters
because you are here to | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
answer the general question. | 0:17:51 | 0:17:52 | |
And you know the business well. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:53 | |
Highly processed foods
are damaging health. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
Is it time for them to be taxed? | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
Look, I think it's ultimately,
it comes down to a balanced diet. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:04 | |
I recognise that retailers
have a responsibility to provide | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
an option of choices. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:14 | |
So if you want to have a processed
meal, retailers need to | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
ensure that is high-quality
to the best possible standards | 0:18:17 | 0:18:19 | |
at the best possible price. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:27 | |
If you want to do some scratch
cooking and buy chicken | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
and vegetables and fresh fruit, | 0:18:37 | 0:18:38 | |
which you can do from our store,
we're not all frozen. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
Then, you know, that's fine as well. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:42 | |
I think it's incumbent
on the retailers to | 0:18:42 | 0:18:44 | |
give customers that choice. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:45 | |
I don't think that we can
really tax our way | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
to solving this situation. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:49 | |
But I think we can all do better. | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
There are regulations
that have come in | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
for example, such as an sugar. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
Don't tell anyone
because I'm hoping our | 0:18:57 | 0:19:01 | |
customers won't notice, but we've
taken out over the last year 10% | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
sugar. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
Do you accept in principle highly
processed foods are less good | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
for you than fresh food? | 0:19:11 | 0:19:12 | |
And this report by the
French doctor saying | 0:19:12 | 0:19:17 | |
you're more likely to get cancer,
are you disturbed by that or do you | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
reject that argument? | 0:19:20 | 0:19:21 | |
I'm not disturbed
by it and I think the | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
researchers themselves have said
more research needs to be done. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:26 | |
Every week there is a food scare
and it may be excessive alcohol | 0:19:26 | 0:19:29 | |
consumption or excessive
fat or excessive sugar. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:31 | |
And of course if you eat one
thing always it will be | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
bad for you. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:35 | |
The fundamental point
here is it's about balance and | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
choice. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
You know, retailers have got to work
damn hard to make sure | 0:19:41 | 0:19:48 | |
products are as good quality
as we can make them. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
Camilla Cavendish. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:52 | |
Well I was the author of the sugar
tax on fizzy drinks. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:55 | |
Which is coming in next year. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
So I'm regarded as a health fascist
and deeply unpopular | 0:19:58 | 0:20:01 | |
with many sections of the community. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:02 | |
Are you unpopular with Iceland? | 0:20:02 | 0:20:04 | |
Well I don't know
because by the sound of | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
it... | 0:20:06 | 0:20:07 | |
You can buy quinoa,
asparagus spears, you know. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
Great, I live on asparagus
spears, that's all I eat. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:12 | |
Come on, back to the sugar. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:14 | |
Look, what I discovered,
so the evidence | 0:20:14 | 0:20:18 | |
on fizzy drinks is terrible. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:19 | |
Teenagers in this country drink
enormous amounts of it. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
Richard's point about
moderation is right but | 0:20:23 | 0:20:24 | |
the fact is we don't seem very good,
in ourselves, to being moderate. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:29 | |
We wanted to bring in a tax to make
drinks more expensive. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:33 | |
It was an onslaught
from the companies. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
Every company said
they couldn't possibly | 0:20:36 | 0:20:37 | |
reformulate, it would be impossible
to change their ingredients, | 0:20:37 | 0:20:39 | |
impossible to take the sugar out. | 0:20:39 | 0:20:43 | |
Here we are three months before
the tax comes in and every single | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
company except one has
already reformulated | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
its drink to avoid
the | 0:20:48 | 0:20:49 | |
tax. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
Which I think is a huge success. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:54 | |
And I do actually think, sadly,
I would much rather work with | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
business to do these things
but sometimes you really need to put | 0:20:58 | 0:21:03 | |
pressure on because it is very
difficult for consumers to know what | 0:21:03 | 0:21:06 | |
on earth we are supposed to buy. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
Making things more expensive does
change people's behaviour in a way | 0:21:10 | 0:21:13 | |
I'm afraid all the leaflets we've
read over the years, for the | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
newspaper article fundamentally... | 0:21:16 | 0:21:18 | |
You talk about sugar, do you think
all processed foods, they were | 0:21:18 | 0:21:25 | |
saying today the longer
the list of things that make | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
up the food the more | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
likely it is to be highly processed. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:30 | |
Do think they should be taxed? | 0:21:30 | 0:21:32 | |
This is what I've read. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:33 | |
I think it's very difficult
having done this sugar tax | 0:21:33 | 0:21:35 | |
which is relatively easy to tax
sugar in a drink, because it's quite | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
easy to isolate the sugar. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:40 | |
I think it would be
incredible difficult to | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
tax individual ingredients which is
actually why the government is | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
trying to work with businesses like
Richard's to do something slightly | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
more sophisticated. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:48 | |
It's obviously an issue
about the way in which | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
corporations and food businesses
and behave when they are given these | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
regulations and there's obviously
more we can do on that front. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:55 | |
There's obviously the other side
of this equation which is people's | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
pockets. | 0:21:58 | 0:21:59 | |
Part of the reason they will go
to Iceland and to certain | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
stores is because they're cheaper
and they'll buy things that are | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
perhaps more processed and £1 for
chicken nuggets or whatever it is. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
Which my husband
quite likes actually. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:14 | |
It's the way in which people
make their money work. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
And we had a decade
of such low wage growth | 0:22:18 | 0:22:20 | |
in this country. | 0:22:20 | 0:22:22 | |
We haven't had a decade of this kind
of wage growth for over 200 years. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:26 | |
People are really feeling
the squeeze in terms | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
of how much money
they have left over. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:30 | |
Also time restraints as well. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:33 | |
So people working more hours,
trying to make those ends meet. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:40 | |
And that's where these
sorts of short cuts and | 0:22:40 | 0:22:42 | |
these kinds of foods become
a possibility in which to make it | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
work, make everyday work. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:46 | |
So we don't want to
punish those people. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:49 | |
We want to do something on both
sides of those equations. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
You want to give people
more money, make sure | 0:22:51 | 0:22:53 | |
they have jobs that pay them well,
and we want to make sure that they | 0:22:53 | 0:22:57 | |
can buy good produce. | 0:22:57 | 0:22:58 | |
You know, there's some
places you live, and | 0:22:58 | 0:22:59 | |
there's like food deserts. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
It's like hard to get
good, fresh produce in | 0:23:01 | 0:23:03 | |
your neighbourhood, so we need to do
something on both sides. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:05 | |
Ruth Binney, you asked
the question, what | 0:23:05 | 0:23:07 | |
do you think? | 0:23:07 | 0:23:08 | |
I'm particularly concerned
about what I would call | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
the food extras. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
The biscuits, the crisps,
the things that aren't | 0:23:13 | 0:23:15 | |
really nutritionally valuable. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
But I would also go
further if I was going | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
to have a tax on them. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
I would actually ring
fence that tax money | 0:23:23 | 0:23:24 | |
for the NHS. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:26 | |
All right, so... | 0:23:26 | 0:23:28 | |
APPLAUSE I'll come to you. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:29 | |
Who else would like to talk? | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
You all obviously go shopping. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:35 | |
Yes, the woman there
in the centre, what do you think? | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
Would you like to see
a tax on processed | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
foods? | 0:23:40 | 0:23:41 | |
Well I hate to use a pun,
but it sounds like all stick and no | 0:23:41 | 0:23:45 | |
carrot here. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:46 | |
Instead of making processed
food more expensive, why | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
not make healthy food cheaper? | 0:23:48 | 0:23:49 | |
Because it's actually
really expensive... | 0:23:49 | 0:23:50 | |
APPLAUSE To go shopping. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
To buy all of the healthy
ingredients, the gentleman | 0:23:52 | 0:23:54 | |
said, to make your food
from scratch, it adds up. | 0:23:54 | 0:23:57 | |
Ask Jamie Oliver, he says
he's got those cheap | 0:23:57 | 0:23:59 | |
books, but my God, it adds up, it's
very expensive to cook from scratch. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:05 | |
How do you find yourself buying,
do you buy a lot of processed | 0:24:05 | 0:24:08 | |
food? | 0:24:08 | 0:24:09 | |
We try, we do try, I've got two
children, so we try to eat | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
healthily and we try to cook
from scratch as much as possible. | 0:24:12 | 0:24:15 | |
But as Faiza said,
my husband and I work | 0:24:15 | 0:24:17 | |
full-time, I'm a teacher
and my husband's in the Navy. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
It's not always
possible to go to the | 0:24:20 | 0:24:22 | |
supermarket, gather up
all those ingredients, | 0:24:22 | 0:24:23 | |
pay for it all at once. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:24 | |
It's actually really expensive
to make one meal as opposed | 0:24:24 | 0:24:29 | |
as opposed to grabbing,
I don't know, just a takeaway or | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
something like that. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:32 | |
The man there. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:34 | |
You agree with her? | 0:24:34 | 0:24:35 | |
On making fresh food
is cheaper, you can go | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
into Asda and they've got things
like raspberries £2 upon it, or two | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
for £3. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:41 | |
Why can't they just
make one punnet £1.50? | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
Because they go off,
things go off really quick. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
The volume is too big? | 0:24:45 | 0:24:46 | |
Yes. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:47 | |
I don't think we want
to get into retail | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
arguments necessarily. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:50 | |
Why not? | 0:24:50 | 0:24:51 | |
Theresa Villiers. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
Well, the trouble with taxes
on food is the people | 0:24:54 | 0:25:02 | |
they hit in the pocket are people
on the lowest incomes. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
So I'm not convinced
we should take this step. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
I do, though, believe
it is vital for the food | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
industry to do more
to | 0:25:09 | 0:25:10 | |
reduce sugar content. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:11 | |
I'm somewhat sceptical
about this particular | 0:25:11 | 0:25:13 | |
study. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
It seems they only got people
to write out what they ate for two | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
days. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:21 | |
It seems quite a big step to draw
the conclusions they have but | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
there is no doubt that
being overweight is one of the most | 0:25:24 | 0:25:27 | |
important preventable
causes of cancer. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
So the food industry and government
and society as a whole, | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
we need a strong public health
campaign to educate people and | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
support them in trying
to eat more healthily, | 0:25:36 | 0:25:38 | |
because that is the best way
to prevent themselves from | 0:25:38 | 0:25:40 | |
getting cancer. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:41 | |
OK, the person up there
on the gangway, yes. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
Yes, you. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
Why do we always come back to this
thing about if you put prices of | 0:25:46 | 0:25:50 | |
these processed and sugary goods
up its always the lowest paid people | 0:25:50 | 0:25:52 | |
that will suffer? | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
Why does anybody need
to give their children cans of | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
Coke? | 0:25:57 | 0:25:59 | |
You're not going to die
if you don't have a can of Coke. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:04 | |
There is water, there's
much less fizzy, | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
sweet drinks about, and cheaper. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
OK. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
The woman there. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:15 | |
Perhaps we should look
at the cause and go back to the | 0:26:15 | 0:26:20 | |
syllabus of home economics at school
and teach people, teach children, | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
how to cook properly from scratch. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
We used to do it when I went
to school and now they have to put a | 0:26:26 | 0:26:30 | |
topping on a pizza that
they bought in a shop. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
APPLAUSE David Lammy. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:40 | |
I think we've really got
to keep in mind when we're | 0:26:40 | 0:26:46 | |
talking about taxes, families
where both couples are working. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:49 | |
And finishing work
at five, six o'clock | 0:26:49 | 0:26:50 | |
in the evening. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
Like her family. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:57 | |
We've got to keep in mind single
mums, we've got to keep in mind | 0:26:57 | 0:27:03 | |
those on zero-hour contracts. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:04 | |
And so the fact is that
processed food is a way | 0:27:04 | 0:27:07 | |
of life. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:08 | |
It seems to me the starting
point is the regulation. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
Don't underestimate
the power, sorry, big | 0:27:12 | 0:27:14 | |
supermarkets in this country. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:22 | |
Don't underestimate
how governments can | 0:27:23 | 0:27:24 | |
defer, often, the debate
around labelling. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
Too much fat, too much sugar,
too much salt in a lot of | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
this food. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:30 | |
You've got to get the regulation
first before you start to | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
tax people because of the
circumstances in which they live, it | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
seems to me. | 0:27:35 | 0:27:36 | |
Do you feel unregulated? | 0:27:36 | 0:27:37 | |
Is it right saying you have
the power, not the government? | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
I'm broadly in favour,
you know, of regulation | 0:27:40 | 0:27:42 | |
coming in, so long
as | 0:27:42 | 0:27:45 | |
it's a level playing field
and the industry can act together. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:48 | |
I think the lady over
there made a really | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
valid point on home
economics and education. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
That must play a role as well. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:53 | |
You know, if... | 0:27:53 | 0:27:58 | |
Why do we always blame
the schools for what in | 0:27:58 | 0:28:00 | |
the end is a supermarket problem? | 0:28:00 | 0:28:02 | |
Leave the teachers out of it. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
Let us not demonise
a ready meal because if | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
it's good quality and,
you know, you don't | 0:28:08 | 0:28:10 | |
have much time, what is
the | 0:28:10 | 0:28:11 | |
problem? | 0:28:11 | 0:28:12 | |
Can I explain one thing? | 0:28:12 | 0:28:17 | |
We'll come to you. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:18 | |
The sugar tax on drinks was not
a tax on customers, it's a | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
tax on manufacturers. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:22 | |
And the whole point
of it was to get manufacturers | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
to change the ingredients
in the product. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:26 | |
So it comes... | 0:28:26 | 0:28:27 | |
They've cut down
the amount of sugars. | 0:28:27 | 0:28:29 | |
That's what would work best. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:30 | |
So nobody's paying this
tax, you're saying? | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
If you can actually
get manufacturers | 0:28:32 | 0:28:33 | |
to stop putting junk,
because it's cheaper for them, | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 | |
into their products. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:39 | |
But Coca-Cola as a result of this
is reducing the amount of | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
Coke and putting the price up. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:49 | |
Coca-Cola are not,
Coca-Cola is the one company | 0:28:49 | 0:28:51 | |
that is not changing | 0:28:51 | 0:28:53 | |
their product as I understand. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:54 | |
And they're putting the price? | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
I don't know what
they're doing with the | 0:28:56 | 0:28:57 | |
price, but they're not... | 0:28:57 | 0:28:59 | |
They made that the price
up but you will have | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
other options which will be cheaper. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:02 | |
The woman here. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:03 | |
When I went to postnatal
classes just after having | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
my babies, a lot of the other
mothers there were saying their | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
children wouldn't drink water,
they would only drink squash, | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
and they would only eat biscuits
and wouldn't | 0:29:11 | 0:29:12 | |
eat vegetables. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:14 | |
In my view, the point
about education is really | 0:29:14 | 0:29:16 | |
important, but actually I think it's
educating parents, because once | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
you've got a child,
even at five or six, | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
and they've been brought up eating
biscuits and cakes and not | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
eating vegetables and not
understanding about that side of | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
things, it's almost too late. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:26 | |
So I'm not convinced
particularly about the | 0:29:26 | 0:29:28 | |
tax, although I like the idea
of it being preventative. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:31 | |
I think are really, really
important thing is to | 0:29:31 | 0:29:33 | |
make sure we have good dedication
of parents and parenting. | 0:29:33 | 0:29:41 | |
OK. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:43 | |
APPLAUSE The man up | 0:29:43 | 0:29:44 | |
there, you were saying? | 0:29:44 | 0:29:45 | |
You need to make distinction
between preprepared food and | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
processed food. | 0:29:47 | 0:29:48 | |
Which has got blown up there. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:55 | |
- blurred. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:56 | |
You can buy from Iceland
preprepared food that isn't | 0:29:56 | 0:30:02 | |
processed, just need heating. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:03 | |
And then processed
foods, like sausages, | 0:30:03 | 0:30:04 | |
burgers, things like that. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:05 | |
Food that just needs
eating sounds... | 0:30:05 | 0:30:07 | |
Heating! | 0:30:07 | 0:30:10 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:30:10 | 0:30:11 | |
"This food just needs eating"! | 0:30:11 | 0:30:14 | |
The woman there. | 0:30:14 | 0:30:15 | |
I wanted to say the thing
about schools is too easy. | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
I've got two kids at high school. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:20 | |
They've made chicken
nuggets from scratch. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:21 | |
They've made vegetable
korma from scratch. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:23 | |
They bring them home
and it's delicious. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:25 | |
So it is happening in schools. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:27 | |
Let's move to another question. | 0:30:27 | 0:30:31 | |
Since we are talking
about schools, I'll bring | 0:30:31 | 0:30:33 | |
you in if you'd like to come in. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:35 | |
It's a question from
Michelle Moredue. | 0:30:35 | 0:30:40 | |
Can the ticking time bomb
of mental health and stress | 0:30:40 | 0:30:44 | |
in our schools really be solved
by even more testing? | 0:30:44 | 0:30:48 | |
This is based on this
announcement that schools, | 0:30:48 | 0:30:50 | |
eight and nine-year-olds
are going to have tests | 0:30:50 | 0:30:54 | |
of their tables added
to the tables they already have. | 0:30:54 | 0:30:59 | |
Further from that, the suggestion
from Nick Gibb to bring testing | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
further down to 12-year-olds,
because it would alleviate | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
their exam stress further
on in their educational career. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:09 | |
Obviously, the whole thing of stress
in schools is a really | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
serious, growing issue. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:13 | |
Theresa Villiers, what do you think? | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
Yeah, I do worry about
the amount of testing | 0:31:15 | 0:31:19 | |
there is in schools,
but it is working. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:23 | |
School standards are rising. | 0:31:23 | 0:31:25 | |
Literacy standards are improving
dramatically in our schools. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:30 | |
We are seeing exam
standards rising as well. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
And I believe that, whilst it's
important to keep these | 0:31:34 | 0:31:38 | |
things under review... | 0:31:38 | 0:31:40 | |
I think we should think
very carefully before | 0:31:40 | 0:31:42 | |
introducing new tests. | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
But, for example with the latest
announcements on times tables, | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
these are the sort of tests that
have been used successfully | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
elsewhere in the world. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:52 | |
And I do believe that testing
is helping to deliver very | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
significant improvements
in our education system. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:58 | |
But are the test scores rising
but actually the application | 0:31:58 | 0:32:02 | |
of the skills are not rising? | 0:32:02 | 0:32:06 | |
I think that's what I find,
as a deputy headteacher, | 0:32:06 | 0:32:08 | |
as somebody who is working
on the front line with education. | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
They are not actually able then
to apply those skills. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
They are not using those
skills in the right frame, | 0:32:13 | 0:32:15 | |
in the right way, when they go out
into the workforce. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:19 | |
You asked a question
about mental stress. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:23 | |
Do you find that
growing in your school? | 0:32:23 | 0:32:25 | |
Absolutely. | 0:32:25 | 0:32:26 | |
Without enough funding
being put in place for those | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
children to support them. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:30 | |
We are effectively telling
the children that they've failed | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
at such a young age. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:33 | |
And all that does is degrade them. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
We've already got several
generations walking around | 0:32:36 | 0:32:38 | |
having hated school. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:40 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
We mustn't create another
generation of people | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
that don't enjoy school. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:49 | |
Surely it's our job
to light the fires. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
What form does the mental
health and stress take | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
in your experience as a deputy head? | 0:32:54 | 0:32:56 | |
Well, you've got children
who are fearful of going | 0:32:56 | 0:32:58 | |
into an exam situation. | 0:32:58 | 0:32:59 | |
They are fearful of it,
worried about not passing. | 0:32:59 | 0:33:01 | |
All they are bothered about is
what they get on the test score. | 0:33:01 | 0:33:05 | |
And then it becomes not
about acquiring skills for life. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:07 | |
It becomes about that test score. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
So yes, actually the phonics test
did raise the standards. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
It raised the standards
in passing a test. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
But it didn't actually
impact on reading. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:18 | |
And that's what it is. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:20 | |
Or cultivate a love of reading. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
We are going up the
international league tables | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
on literacy and reading. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:25 | |
It has had an effect. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:26 | |
And how are we doing
on mental health? | 0:33:26 | 0:33:28 | |
Well, we need to do better on mental
health, which is why the government | 0:33:28 | 0:33:31 | |
is committed to a dramatic increase
in funding for mental health care. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:34 | |
All right. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:35 | |
Would you accept that
what is being described by Michelle | 0:33:35 | 0:33:38 | |
is a price that has to be paid
for improvement in the international | 0:33:38 | 0:33:41 | |
table of excellence? | 0:33:41 | 0:33:43 | |
Is stress a natural consequence of
what is being imposed on children? | 0:33:43 | 0:33:48 | |
Of course we should be doing
everything we can to prevent mental | 0:33:48 | 0:33:51 | |
health issues in children. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:53 | |
But it is possible to introduce
new tests in schools without | 0:33:53 | 0:33:58 | |
excessive stress on students. | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
And it is very important
to recognise the role of testing | 0:34:02 | 0:34:06 | |
in ensuring that children
are getting a decent education | 0:34:06 | 0:34:09 | |
that is crucial for them getting
a good start in life. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
The person behind Michelle. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:14 | |
I've been a teacher. | 0:34:14 | 0:34:17 | |
I've also written
exam specifications. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:17 | |
I've been a teacher for 23 years. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:19 | |
I now work in a charity
with people who suffer | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
with mental health issues. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:23 | |
I understand that assessment
is simply about statistics. | 0:34:23 | 0:34:27 | |
It's simply about so this country
can say to another country, | 0:34:27 | 0:34:29 | |
"Look how good our students are". | 0:34:29 | 0:34:31 | |
This generation are disempowered. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:33 | |
I have three children in their 20s. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:35 | |
They can't remember their maths
because it was something | 0:34:35 | 0:34:37 | |
that was done to them. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
They weren't engaged in it at all. | 0:34:39 | 0:34:41 | |
The vocational education,
the BTECs went out. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:43 | |
That was an absolute disaster
because BTECs were brilliant. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
They engaged the pupil,
taught them life skills, | 0:34:46 | 0:34:48 | |
gave them interpersonal skills,
great communication skills. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:52 | |
And now we are just back to a simple
test which is testing one form | 0:34:52 | 0:34:55 | |
of intelligence in one way
which suits a certain | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
group of people. | 0:34:58 | 0:34:59 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:34:59 | 0:35:07 | |
Camilla Cavendish. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
Well, I have three children
and the eldest is just | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
about to do his GCSEs. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
And I think, you know I've
been around the policy | 0:35:14 | 0:35:18 | |
world for a long time. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:19 | |
It's not until you have kids that
you see it for what it is. | 0:35:19 | 0:35:22 | |
And what I can't believe
is how little has changed | 0:35:22 | 0:35:24 | |
since I was at school. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:30 | |
And it seems to me that we test
memory, we test short-term memory | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
and being able to learn
things by rote. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:35 | |
And it is important
to learn your times tables, | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
but we still test those things
when we are living in a world | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
where short-term memory is no
longer very important. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:43 | |
And I do think your point
is very interesting | 0:35:43 | 0:35:45 | |
about the application of skills. | 0:35:45 | 0:35:46 | |
We have gone up the league tables. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:48 | |
But I worry when I look at the GCSE
courses about the content of those | 0:35:48 | 0:35:53 | |
courses and the number of keywords
you have to just produce in order | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
to get a tick in the box. | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
I think there is something missing. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
I wonder whether actually we should
still be testing kids at 16 at all, | 0:36:00 | 0:36:04 | |
given that everybody now
stays until 18. | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
And I worry that we
are just creating... | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
Luckily we have abolished AS-levels
which means at least you don't | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
have yet another series of tests. | 0:36:12 | 0:36:14 | |
But what we need are
children who are really | 0:36:14 | 0:36:16 | |
curious about the world. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:17 | |
We need children who can
actually apply their skills. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:20 | |
And I have to say, I do
believe in testing, I do | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
believe it's important. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:24 | |
But I don't think we are catering
for children with dyslexia, | 0:36:24 | 0:36:26 | |
for children with a whole series
of challenges who are not | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
particularly good
at short-term memory. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
There are many, many other skills
that we are going to need if Britain | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
is going to compete in the world. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
And what about the stress and mental
health as a price that is paid | 0:36:37 | 0:36:40 | |
for this testing regime? | 0:36:40 | 0:36:41 | |
We are seeing an awful lot of that. | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
An increasing amount of that? | 0:36:43 | 0:36:45 | |
I think the onus is partly
on schools to, as much as possible, | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
try and reduce the stress. | 0:36:48 | 0:36:49 | |
I think some children at a very
early age are picking up | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
stress from their teachers
and from the whole environment, | 0:36:52 | 0:36:54 | |
and I think that is a major problem. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:56 | |
The woman up there on the end. | 0:36:56 | 0:36:57 | |
I've got three granddaughters aged
from seven up, | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
and they love nothing more
than to have a test. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
And I think when they are little
and they are being given tests, | 0:37:04 | 0:37:07 | |
that's fun, and like the lady
said, the stress can | 0:37:07 | 0:37:11 | |
come from the teachers. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:14 | |
And if the teachers aren't stressed,
the children aren't stressed. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
The SATs was explained as a special
test, and it was something | 0:37:17 | 0:37:20 | |
to be excited about. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:25 | |
OK, you, sir, in the front. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:26 | |
There are a lot of people
with their hands up. | 0:37:26 | 0:37:29 | |
Yes, you. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:30 | |
At my university... | 0:37:30 | 0:37:31 | |
Someone said their kids
really enjoy testing. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:32 | |
The majority don't. | 0:37:32 | 0:37:34 | |
At my university there is a real
emphasis being placed upon getting | 0:37:34 | 0:37:37 | |
kids to engage in schools
through learning through sport. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
So rather than sat down
in the classroom learning | 0:37:41 | 0:37:46 | |
their times tables they are actually
out applying skills through PE, | 0:37:46 | 0:37:49 | |
physical education, which has been
proved to work across Hampshire | 0:37:49 | 0:37:52 | |
on a large scale. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:54 | |
I think it should be rolled out
across more counties across the UK. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:57 | |
Faiza Shaheen, do you think
there is a rising problem of mental | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
stress among children
because of exams? | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
Is not a matter of thinking. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
It's a fact, isn't it? | 0:38:06 | 0:38:07 | |
It's just there. | 0:38:07 | 0:38:08 | |
We need to listen more to teachers. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:10 | |
And this is what's happened
in the last eight years | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
since we've had Conservative-led
governments as well, that we have | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
cut and cut and cut. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:17 | |
Teachers themselves are under
huge amounts of stress. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:19 | |
You don't have teaching
assistants any more. | 0:38:19 | 0:38:22 | |
There's a lot more to do,
with the testing as well. | 0:38:22 | 0:38:26 | |
We need to listen to you about your
own stresses as well as what's | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
going on with the children
and the kids in your class. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:34 | |
We already assess our children. | 0:38:34 | 0:38:35 | |
I think it's frankly insulting
to have to bring in a test to do | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
a job that we are already
capable of doing. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:41 | |
Trust the professionals. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:42 | |
We do know what we're doing. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:43 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:38:43 | 0:38:49 | |
And we hear about mental
health all of the time, | 0:38:49 | 0:38:51 | |
from Theresa May talking
about investment in mental health. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:53 | |
When I go out and talk to youth
services, to people working | 0:38:53 | 0:38:57 | |
in mental health with young people,
it is cut. | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
The truth of the matter
on the ground is very | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
different to what we hear
from government ministers. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:04 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
Richard Walker, you must see
lots of people coming out | 0:39:07 | 0:39:10 | |
of the education system
to work for you. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:12 | |
What is your impression of the way
that they are being taught | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
and the pressures they are under? | 0:39:15 | 0:39:18 | |
Well, I'm no educational expert
but I am a dad to two young girls. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:22 | |
And obviously I want them to be
the best they can be and do whatever | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
they want to do in life. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:28 | |
But I'm already worried
about the amount of homework | 0:39:28 | 0:39:30 | |
they have and the amount
of tests they have. | 0:39:30 | 0:39:33 | |
My wife used to work in Norway
and I think kids start school | 0:39:33 | 0:39:37 | |
there aged six or seven. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:39 | |
And it seems a lot more
of a relaxed introduction. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:42 | |
But to David's point,
in terms of what we see, | 0:39:42 | 0:39:47 | |
I think in terms of targets a lot
of school leavers think that | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
maybe higher education,
university, is the only | 0:39:50 | 0:39:54 | |
option available to them. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:55 | |
But skills for life was a great
phrase, because we need to be | 0:39:55 | 0:40:00 | |
looking at a broad sweep of options,
from vocational training | 0:40:00 | 0:40:03 | |
to the apprenticeship
levy which is coming, | 0:40:03 | 0:40:05 | |
which is fantastic. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:07 | |
We sponsor school leavers, pay them
a graduate equivalent salary, | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
but they are 18 and
they can train with us. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:12 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:40:12 | 0:40:18 | |
Let's come to the testing. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:20 | |
The woman on the right. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:21 | |
I think a lot of the mental stress
is caused by the desire | 0:40:21 | 0:40:24 | |
of parents and the children
themselves to succeed. | 0:40:24 | 0:40:26 | |
But I think a lesson
in life is if you fail, | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
you then try again harder
the next time. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:31 | |
So I don't think these children
should be under undue | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
pressure the whole time. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:34 | |
Being a failure is also
a lesson in life. | 0:40:34 | 0:40:42 | |
And the woman on the right. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:47 | |
You said that your government
was committed to providing | 0:40:47 | 0:40:49 | |
more support for mental
health in schools. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:51 | |
I am a teacher and I'm wondering
when that's going to come through, | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
because as a tutor I have students
come to me with mental health issues | 0:40:54 | 0:40:57 | |
pretty much every day. | 0:40:57 | 0:40:58 | |
And there is no support
that we can access as teachers. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:01 | |
We are having to be counsellors
as well as teachers. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:04 | |
What do you do when
somebody comes to you? | 0:41:04 | 0:41:06 | |
Are you a teacher of young people? | 0:41:06 | 0:41:08 | |
I teach A-levels at a college. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:10 | |
What do you do when
people come to you? | 0:41:10 | 0:41:12 | |
I support them as best as I can
and I refer them to what services | 0:41:12 | 0:41:15 | |
are available in our college. | 0:41:15 | 0:41:16 | |
But more often than not it can take
weeks for them to get | 0:41:16 | 0:41:20 | |
in with a counsellor. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:22 | |
And when you are 16,
that's too long. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:24 | |
They need help then and there. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:29 | |
Do you attribute this
to the testing in schools? | 0:41:29 | 0:41:31 | |
Yes. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:32 | |
There's a huge amount of pressure
put on young people to get | 0:41:32 | 0:41:35 | |
the grades they need at A-level,
to get into university. | 0:41:35 | 0:41:37 | |
And it's this constant,
"You need to do this | 0:41:37 | 0:41:40 | |
"to get to the next step". | 0:41:40 | 0:41:42 | |
What's the end for them? | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
David Lammy. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:46 | |
Well, I think the question is,
why has the government suddenly | 0:41:46 | 0:41:51 | |
decided that we need another
round of tests for eight-year-olds, | 0:41:51 | 0:41:56 | |
that that is the priority? | 0:41:56 | 0:41:58 | |
I just don't think
that's the priority. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:01 | |
The priority, if we are going to
exit the European Union, is skills. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:06 | |
So bring back night
schools in this country. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
The priority is invest in youth
services in this country. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:14 | |
The priority is, why have
we cut FE budgets by 50%? | 0:42:14 | 0:42:19 | |
Are any open in the evening,
so people can skill up? | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
Those are the priorities,
not testing eight-year-olds. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:27 | |
And yes, it's so sad that we're
walking down the road, | 0:42:27 | 0:42:31 | |
like the Americans, we are seeing
more self-harm of youngsters, | 0:42:31 | 0:42:33 | |
really young kids. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:37 | |
Our teachers are stressed out
and leaving the profession. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:42 | |
And if you have a child
with a mental health problem, | 0:42:42 | 0:42:45 | |
or a learning disability,
or one of those issues, | 0:42:45 | 0:42:47 | |
you try getting a speech therapist. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:50 | |
You try ringing up child and
adolescent mental health services. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:53 | |
Impossible to get
on the waiting list. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
You are waiting for years
basically just to get seen. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
That's the context. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:43:02 | 0:43:04 | |
Under Conservative-led governments | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
there are 1.9 million more children
studying in good or | 0:43:07 | 0:43:10 | |
outstanding schools. | 0:43:10 | 0:43:11 | |
We are seeing stronger
exam standards and also, | 0:43:11 | 0:43:14 | |
for the very first time
in the history of the NHS, | 0:43:14 | 0:43:17 | |
we are introducing waiting time
targets for mental health care. | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
We are investing record amounts,
more than ever before, | 0:43:21 | 0:43:24 | |
in mental health care,
with a strong focus | 0:43:24 | 0:43:27 | |
on young people in schools. | 0:43:27 | 0:43:28 | |
So we are focused on this problem,
and I also want to emphasise... | 0:43:28 | 0:43:33 | |
I agree very strongly,
the apprenticeship levy | 0:43:33 | 0:43:35 | |
is a revolutionary instrument
of social justice in education. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:40 | |
It's going to mean many millions
more young people getting a real | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
effective start in life. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:46 | |
So I don't accept Faiza's
characterisation of schools | 0:43:46 | 0:43:48 | |
under this government. | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 | |
There have been
significant improvements. | 0:43:51 | 0:43:54 | |
What do you say to the point
David Lammy was making about people | 0:43:54 | 0:43:57 | |
who need psychological support
and can't get it, people who need | 0:43:57 | 0:44:00 | |
speech therapy and can't get it,
the long delays that the teacher | 0:44:00 | 0:44:03 | |
was talking about and everybody
knows about, before these | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
young people get help? | 0:44:06 | 0:44:08 | |
Of course we want young people
to get help as quickly as possible | 0:44:08 | 0:44:12 | |
of course you want them to,
but he is saying you haven't | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
done anything about it. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
But that is why we are investing far
more in talking therapies | 0:44:16 | 0:44:18 | |
than the government
of which he was a member ever did. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 | |
Yes, it takes a while to get
to those therapies but that is why | 0:44:21 | 0:44:24 | |
we've introduced these
waiting time targets. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:26 | |
Something that no Labour
government has ever done. | 0:44:26 | 0:44:31 | |
The person up there at
the back on the gangway. | 0:44:31 | 0:44:35 | |
Nothing's going to change the fact
that some people are academic | 0:44:35 | 0:44:38 | |
and some people aren't. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:39 | |
More and more tests isn't
going to make people | 0:44:39 | 0:44:41 | |
brighter or more academic. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:43 | |
Shouldn't children be allowed to be
children, and maybe that | 0:44:43 | 0:44:46 | |
would help their mental health? | 0:44:46 | 0:44:49 | |
What do you mean by children? | 0:44:49 | 0:44:50 | |
More and more, they seem to be given
tests and tests and they have | 0:44:50 | 0:44:54 | |
to meet these targets
and those targets. | 0:44:54 | 0:44:59 | |
Why not let them be children? | 0:44:59 | 0:45:01 | |
The academic ones will do it anyway
and not testing will give | 0:45:01 | 0:45:03 | |
the teachers more time to teach. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
A lot of people with their hands up. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
Let's go to the very back. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:10 | |
I'm a teacher as well and absolutely
agree with a lot of what's been | 0:45:10 | 0:45:14 | |
said. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:17 | |
I believe one of the arguments
is that, from the government, is | 0:45:17 | 0:45:20 | |
that the 8-9 -year-old
multiplication tables test will tell | 0:45:20 | 0:45:22 | |
teachers whether children need help. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:30 | |
I can assure you all the teachers
I've worked with absolutely know | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
without putting children through
additional testing where they need | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
help. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:37 | |
The problem is getting that help. | 0:45:37 | 0:45:39 | |
OK. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:40 | |
Yes, you. | 0:45:40 | 0:45:43 | |
What I would like to say
is that all children are | 0:45:43 | 0:45:45 | |
individuals, they're all different. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:46 | |
They develop at different rates. | 0:45:46 | 0:45:48 | |
They learn in different ways. | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
The idea that you're
supposed to get them | 0:45:51 | 0:45:53 | |
to meet certain targets
is | 0:45:53 | 0:45:54 | |
going to put a lot
of pressure on them | 0:45:54 | 0:45:56 | |
at a very young age,
which is | 0:45:56 | 0:45:58 | |
not fair on the children. | 0:45:58 | 0:45:59 | |
To learn at such a young
age the pressures of | 0:45:59 | 0:46:02 | |
trying to fix themselves
into a certain box. | 0:46:02 | 0:46:06 | |
I'll take one more point. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
My point was really to do
with the south-west. | 0:46:09 | 0:46:13 | |
The recent social mobility
commission report | 0:46:13 | 0:46:15 | |
showed West Somerset
was one of the least | 0:46:15 | 0:46:17 | |
socially mobile areas
in the | 0:46:17 | 0:46:18 | |
country and part of
that is the education. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
What's the government going to do
about that in terms of rural | 0:46:20 | 0:46:23 | |
schools? | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
Do you want to answer that? | 0:46:27 | 0:46:28 | |
And then we must move on. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
I believe that in terms
of social mobility a | 0:46:31 | 0:46:33 | |
good education is absolutely
crucial, that's why we've been | 0:46:33 | 0:46:35 | |
focusing on exam standards. | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
That's also why we
want to revolutionise | 0:46:38 | 0:46:41 | |
technical education
with the introduction | 0:46:41 | 0:46:42 | |
of T-levels and also,
as I said, give many more young | 0:46:42 | 0:46:45 | |
people access to apprenticeships
to give them the skills they need to | 0:46:45 | 0:46:48 | |
get the jobs they want. | 0:46:48 | 0:46:49 | |
OK. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:54 | |
In rural areas. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
Why is that, what's going to be done
about it, what resources are | 0:46:56 | 0:46:59 | |
going to go into it to change that? | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
Well the apprenticeship level will
put, you know, far greater funds | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
into skills training
than ever before. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:05 | |
It's nonsense, it's just not... | 0:47:05 | 0:47:06 | |
Look, in the south-west FE
budgets are being cut. | 0:47:06 | 0:47:08 | |
Money is not rising in schools. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:10 | |
Children's centres
are being shut down. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:11 | |
She's not, I'm afraid
she's just got it | 0:47:11 | 0:47:13 | |
wrong, it's not happening
on the ground, it just isn't. | 0:47:13 | 0:47:20 | |
It's good, I mean, I agree. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:22 | |
You agree. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:23 | |
We'll move on. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:24 | |
We're going to a question
because of where we're sitting. | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
It was likely to come up. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:28 | |
I'm sure some of you were
directly involved in it. | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
Let's have the question
from Christopher Parker please. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
Can we afford to further
erode the Armed | 0:47:33 | 0:47:35 | |
Forces, for instant potential cuts
to the helicopter fleet that is | 0:47:35 | 0:47:37 | |
produced and operated within Yeovil? | 0:47:37 | 0:47:43 | |
Just tell us about what's
operated in Yeovil. | 0:47:43 | 0:47:48 | |
For instance, here at the base we've
got the Merlin and the | 0:47:48 | 0:47:51 | |
new Wildcat. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:56 | |
Both produced at the Leonardo
factory in Yeovil. | 0:47:56 | 0:47:58 | |
And you're threatened with cuts? | 0:47:58 | 0:47:59 | |
The force that I am on, the Wildcat,
there's been rumours, the Wildcat | 0:47:59 | 0:48:04 | |
fleet being halved to fill,
you know, to cover the cost of the | 0:48:04 | 0:48:07 | |
amphibious fleet. | 0:48:07 | 0:48:10 | |
OK. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:12 | |
Camilla Cavendish. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:20 | |
I guess the Conservative
government did raise the armed | 0:48:20 | 0:48:22 | |
services budget to 2%
of GDP, which I thought | 0:48:22 | 0:48:24 | |
was really important. | 0:48:24 | 0:48:25 | |
And it gave a really
important signal to | 0:48:25 | 0:48:27 | |
Nato that we are in there
and we are behind them | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
and we are fulfilling our
global responsibilities. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:37 | |
And I think it's really particularly
important as we move towards leaving | 0:48:37 | 0:48:39 | |
the EU that we continue to play that
card, because it's one of our | 0:48:39 | 0:48:43 | |
strongest suits, actually,
with some of our EU | 0:48:43 | 0:48:45 | |
partners and also with
the | 0:48:45 | 0:48:46 | |
United States. | 0:48:46 | 0:48:47 | |
And I, as I understand
it, the government has | 0:48:47 | 0:48:49 | |
committed to that,
to keep that target. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:51 | |
Clearly, because the pound has
fallen in value so much because | 0:48:51 | 0:48:53 | |
of Brexit compared to the dollar
there is a real issue now about the | 0:48:53 | 0:48:57 | |
purchase of equipment the armed
services is supposed to be making, | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
and the pressures on the budget. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
And I don't know the
detail of that, but | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
there was definitely going to be
some questions about that. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:12 | |
Wasn't the budget cut
between 2010-2015 by | 0:49:12 | 0:49:13 | |
about nearly 20%,
the defence budget? | 0:49:13 | 0:49:15 | |
I don't know how much there
were some cuts made, but in 2015 | 0:49:15 | 0:49:19 | |
obviously the government
committed to 2% of GDP. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:21 | |
And you are happy with that? | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
Yeah, I thought that was
a really important signal. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:27 | |
And I think the question
now is how are they | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
going to respond to those cost
pressures that are coming, really, | 0:49:30 | 0:49:32 | |
from the pound against the dollar. | 0:49:32 | 0:49:34 | |
I suppose the one
thing I would say is | 0:49:34 | 0:49:36 | |
we need to make sure we're not going
to have a defence review by stealth. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:40 | |
We need to be told the facts
and we need to know | 0:49:40 | 0:49:43 | |
exactly what's going
to | 0:49:43 | 0:49:44 | |
happen. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:51 | |
And I think there's been a lot
of confusion, obfuscation about | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
this from various quarters. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:55 | |
And we need the Defence
Secretary to make | 0:49:55 | 0:49:56 | |
it very, very clear what his
commitment's going to be. | 0:49:56 | 0:49:59 | |
Christopher Parker
do you think defenc | 0:49:59 | 0:50:00 | |
is being badly handled
at the | 0:50:00 | 0:50:02 | |
moment? | 0:50:02 | 0:50:03 | |
Is that what you're saying? | 0:50:03 | 0:50:04 | |
Certainly I see that. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:05 | |
And the threat that we keep hearing,
for instance, the Albion and the | 0:50:05 | 0:50:08 | |
Bulwark getting ditched, which is
eroding further the amphibious | 0:50:08 | 0:50:10 | |
assault capability of the Navy. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:12 | |
In we need to plug it somewhere,
I understand, money | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
doesn't grow on trees. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:15 | |
And also the Marines,
potential cuts to the | 0:50:15 | 0:50:17 | |
Marines as well, we can't just scrap
these historic units as well. | 0:50:17 | 0:50:25 | |
Faiza, what do you think? | 0:50:25 | 0:50:33 | |
When I think about issues
of the military, me | 0:50:34 | 0:50:36 | |
personally, I would prefer
if we weren't involved, | 0:50:36 | 0:50:38 | |
obviously, in more wars,
but the thing is we obviously | 0:50:38 | 0:50:41 | |
need the military. | 0:50:41 | 0:50:42 | |
The big thing is about jobs. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:43 | |
So the problem is, when they make
these cuts they don't plan | 0:50:43 | 0:50:46 | |
ahead, they don't think
about what this means | 0:50:46 | 0:50:48 | |
for people's security. | 0:50:48 | 0:50:49 | |
So if they can take
those skills and use | 0:50:49 | 0:50:51 | |
it in other sectors,
that's the | 0:50:51 | 0:50:53 | |
way in which we need to do it. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
We often know these
things are coming | 0:50:55 | 0:50:56 | |
up. | 0:50:56 | 0:50:57 | |
And we just let it come to that
point where there's a crisis and | 0:50:57 | 0:51:02 | |
people are worried about their jobs. | 0:51:02 | 0:51:03 | |
Small towns where
those are, you know, | 0:51:03 | 0:51:05 | |
quite a big share of the jobs, then
that has massive implications for | 0:51:05 | 0:51:08 | |
those communities. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:09 | |
What I would say is,
if over time we want to make | 0:51:09 | 0:51:12 | |
cuts to the military
budget, and we want | 0:51:12 | 0:51:14 | |
to shift our economy
into | 0:51:14 | 0:51:16 | |
working on other sectors, we have
to do that with jobs in mind and we | 0:51:16 | 0:51:22 | |
have to do that slowly. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:23 | |
We just don't see those plans there. | 0:51:23 | 0:51:25 | |
It's very frustrating
for people that are | 0:51:25 | 0:51:27 | |
in those sectors. | 0:51:27 | 0:51:28 | |
David Lammy. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:33 | |
Well look, our armed
services do a very | 0:51:33 | 0:51:34 | |
important job and it's not
just in moments of war. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
Peace keeping all over the world. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:38 | |
Patrolling the seas against pirates,
drugs, all sorts of | 0:51:38 | 0:51:40 | |
issues that British armed
services are involved in. | 0:51:40 | 0:51:42 | |
That's got to be funded. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:44 | |
I want to put my hands
firmly on the table. | 0:51:44 | 0:51:46 | |
I am opposed to Trident. | 0:51:46 | 0:51:52 | |
I have been committed
to wanting our country to lead on | 0:51:52 | 0:51:55 | |
nuclear disarmament
for many, many years. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:56 | |
And if we could at least
cooperate with some others, | 0:51:56 | 0:51:58 | |
particularly on nuclear weapons,
then we might have more money to | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
spend on the important
armed services. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:03 | |
You were nodding, Mr, about this,
you agree with that? | 0:52:03 | 0:52:10 | |
Which is probably contrary to a lot
of people I work with, being a | 0:52:13 | 0:52:17 | |
Yorkshire and I understand
we're never going to use | 0:52:17 | 0:52:19 | |
Trident, I hope we never | 0:52:19 | 0:52:20 | |
use it. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:24 | |
I would never push the button,
I hope no one else would. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:27 | |
Let's plug the gap with
the money from Trident. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:29 | |
Theresa Villiers. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:30 | |
Would you save on Trident
and build helicopters? | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
Not just that, but... | 0:52:32 | 0:52:36 | |
We have the best armed
services in the world. | 0:52:36 | 0:52:38 | |
And they need to be funded. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
And the government's
committed to the Nato | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
obligation of spending 2%
on defence spending. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:50 | |
Whilst I can't answer your question
on those individual | 0:52:50 | 0:52:53 | |
projects, they think we are all well
aware there is a very, very lively | 0:52:53 | 0:52:56 | |
debate within government
and within Parliament on this issue. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:58 | |
And I'm absolutely
confident the government | 0:52:58 | 0:53:00 | |
is going to continue
to fund the armed services | 0:53:00 | 0:53:02 | |
in the way they have to be. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:07 | |
It is a crucial part
of our commitment to defending this | 0:53:07 | 0:53:09 | |
country. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:16 | |
Unlike the Labour Party,
who have a leader who thinks it | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
might be a good idea to disband
the Armed Forces, we totally support | 0:53:19 | 0:53:22 | |
them. | 0:53:22 | 0:53:23 | |
Very cheap, isn't it, really. | 0:53:23 | 0:53:24 | |
That is what Jeremy Corbyn
has said in the past. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:27 | |
And I think it is important
we fund our armed services | 0:53:27 | 0:53:29 | |
properly. | 0:53:29 | 0:53:30 | |
Richard Walker. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:33 | |
This spending review
has been going on | 0:53:33 | 0:53:34 | |
for a very long time now and I think
Faiza made a really good point. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:41 | |
It's the uncertainty
for the servicemen | 0:53:41 | 0:53:42 | |
and women and the families involved. | 0:53:42 | 0:53:45 | |
So whatever the government decides
to do, they think they need to | 0:53:45 | 0:53:48 | |
decide quickly and be clear. | 0:53:48 | 0:53:50 | |
For me, you know,
being in this amazing | 0:53:50 | 0:53:52 | |
building and seeing our heritage,
we have some of the best | 0:53:52 | 0:53:55 | |
Armed Forces in the world. | 0:53:55 | 0:53:57 | |
And we need to keep
investing in that. | 0:53:57 | 0:54:01 | |
I think it would be a travesty
if Whitehall were to | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
cut away at our front line services. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:05 | |
OK, the man up there. | 0:54:05 | 0:54:06 | |
I'm a veteran of two armies. | 0:54:06 | 0:54:08 | |
I'm a veteran of the British Army
and the American army. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:10 | |
I'm absolutely disgusted at
successive governments, both Labour | 0:54:10 | 0:54:12 | |
and the Conservatives, and their
cuts to the defence budget. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
I agree that... | 0:54:15 | 0:54:23 | |
With the lady on the end
there, but there is... | 0:54:26 | 0:54:29 | |
We are changing,
the world is changing. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:30 | |
There is no need for a massive
standing army any more. | 0:54:30 | 0:54:33 | |
However I can't understand
why we're going to | 0:54:33 | 0:54:35 | |
spend so much money on Trident
when the threats seem to be coming | 0:54:35 | 0:54:38 | |
from smaller terrorist groups,
independent countries, things like | 0:54:38 | 0:54:40 | |
that. | 0:54:40 | 0:54:41 | |
Why is that? | 0:54:41 | 0:54:47 | |
You, sir, in the middle at the back. | 0:54:47 | 0:54:51 | |
Over to you. | 0:54:51 | 0:54:52 | |
The man at the very
back in blue, yes. | 0:54:52 | 0:55:00 | |
As an ex serving member
of the armed services, | 0:55:00 | 0:55:03 | |
I also agree that we should not
invest in Trident. | 0:55:03 | 0:55:05 | |
We've got, we can test
the relationship we | 0:55:05 | 0:55:07 | |
have with the United States
and an attack on one in Nato | 0:55:07 | 0:55:10 | |
is an attack on all,
so let's just not put the | 0:55:10 | 0:55:12 | |
money to Trident and let's let our
Big Brother help us out if we need | 0:55:12 | 0:55:16 | |
that. | 0:55:16 | 0:55:17 | |
You, sir, in the centre. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:18 | |
We talk about funding
the armed services. | 0:55:18 | 0:55:20 | |
Why is it when Putin sails by we can
only send out a minesweeper? | 0:55:20 | 0:55:23 | |
OK, you want to come in. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:25 | |
Yes. | 0:55:25 | 0:55:28 | |
I think it's very
disingenuous to talk about | 0:55:28 | 0:55:30 | |
percentage of GDP when you're just
about to crater the economy through | 0:55:30 | 0:55:33 | |
Brexit and that percentage is going
to be a much smaller number. | 0:55:33 | 0:55:36 | |
APPLAUSE OK, we didn't
do Brexit tonight. | 0:55:36 | 0:55:40 | |
We do Brexit most weeks. | 0:55:40 | 0:55:42 | |
We didn't do Brexit tonight. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:43 | |
We're coming to the end. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:44 | |
Shame. | 0:55:44 | 0:55:46 | |
Shame. | 0:55:46 | 0:55:47 | |
Let's just... | 0:55:47 | 0:55:49 | |
Occasionally, occasionally, even
though all the ministers are out | 0:55:49 | 0:55:51 | |
there talking, we have
to take a break from it. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:59 | |
Let's just | 0:56:00 | 0:56:01 | |
have a last quick question from | 0:56:01 | 0:56:05 | |
Robert Thomson. | 0:56:05 | 0:56:06 | |
Are politicians incapable
of answering questions or | 0:56:06 | 0:56:08 | |
is it just my imagination? | 0:56:08 | 0:56:09 | |
LAUGHTER
APPLAUSE | 0:56:09 | 0:56:10 | |
You've had quite a good
display tonight. | 0:56:10 | 0:56:12 | |
Let's go round. | 0:56:12 | 0:56:13 | |
You start on it, Faiza. | 0:56:13 | 0:56:16 | |
Yeah, I get frustrated as well
with that and I have to say, | 0:56:16 | 0:56:21 | |
one thing that they are also very
good at is forgetting the history. | 0:56:21 | 0:56:25 | |
And I think one of the things I've
heard today from hearing teachers | 0:56:25 | 0:56:28 | |
and military people,
is the cuts, the big | 0:56:28 | 0:56:30 | |
cuts that we've had
in the | 0:56:30 | 0:56:31 | |
last seven - eight years that
are affecting all people working in | 0:56:31 | 0:56:34 | |
public services, and
the way that Theresa | 0:56:34 | 0:56:36 | |
and Camilla even went
on | 0:56:36 | 0:56:37 | |
tonight is as if those
things didn't happen. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:39 | |
Those people in the city,
bankers in the city have got it as | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
good as they've ever had it. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:43 | |
And yet we are still
suffering the impact of | 0:56:43 | 0:56:46 | |
the financial crisis ten years on. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:47 | |
And we cannot let them forget that. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:49 | |
OK. | 0:56:49 | 0:56:51 | |
APPLAUSE It wasn't quite
the question, you've | 0:56:51 | 0:56:53 | |
taken up most of the
time we've got left. | 0:56:53 | 0:56:55 | |
Very briefly. | 0:56:55 | 0:56:57 | |
Politicians of course
are experts at not answering | 0:56:57 | 0:56:59 | |
the question. | 0:56:59 | 0:57:00 | |
And as a businessman I would say
this, but more straight | 0:57:00 | 0:57:03 | |
talking is what is required. | 0:57:03 | 0:57:04 | |
Camilla? | 0:57:04 | 0:57:05 | |
Quickly if you would. | 0:57:05 | 0:57:09 | |
I just, if you're
going to attack me, | 0:57:09 | 0:57:12 | |
I'm going to have to
slightly defend myself. | 0:57:12 | 0:57:15 | |
I don't think at any point in this
programme I suggested that | 0:57:15 | 0:57:17 | |
there haven't been any cuts. | 0:57:17 | 0:57:19 | |
Local government is
suffering enormously. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:21 | |
There's been an enormous numbers
of cuts the coalition had to make. | 0:57:21 | 0:57:24 | |
They inherited a deficit. | 0:57:24 | 0:57:31 | |
The question is, are
politicians incapable of | 0:57:31 | 0:57:33 | |
answering... | 0:57:33 | 0:57:34 | |
I'm sorry, but, you know. | 0:57:34 | 0:57:35 | |
All right. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:36 | |
Sorry, politicians, really great
politicians to answer | 0:57:36 | 0:57:38 | |
the question, and they defuse it
with humour and they get to the | 0:57:38 | 0:57:41 | |
heart of it. | 0:57:41 | 0:57:42 | |
And there are a few great
politicians, and maybe one of | 0:57:42 | 0:57:44 | |
them's sitting next to me,
I don't know, David. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:47 | |
Both of them sitting next to me. | 0:57:47 | 0:57:48 | |
They'll have to be very, very quick. | 0:57:48 | 0:57:50 | |
Theresa. | 0:57:50 | 0:57:51 | |
No. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:52 | |
And we are capable of
answering questions. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:54 | |
David? | 0:57:54 | 0:57:55 | |
We don't answer enough questions
honestly, that's the | 0:57:55 | 0:57:57 | |
truth, across the board. | 0:57:57 | 0:57:58 | |
OK. | 0:57:58 | 0:57:59 | |
APPLAUSE OK. | 0:57:59 | 0:58:05 | |
More questions, more
questions next week, | 0:58:05 | 0:58:06 | |
then, because time's up | 0:58:06 | 0:58:07 | |
here. | 0:58:07 | 0:58:08 | |
Uttoxeter next week. | 0:58:08 | 0:58:09 | |
Chairman of the Conservative
Party, Brandon | 0:58:09 | 0:58:11 | |
Lewis, the boss of Siemens
is going to be on the programme. | 0:58:11 | 0:58:14 | |
John Prescott for Labour. | 0:58:14 | 0:58:15 | |
Week after that, Blackpool. | 0:58:15 | 0:58:16 | |
With Ken Clarke, Diane
Abbott and Nigel Farage. | 0:58:16 | 0:58:18 | |
BOOING That's a great one! | 0:58:18 | 0:58:23 | |
That's an end of the
pier show for you in | 0:58:23 | 0:58:26 | |
Blackpool. | 0:58:26 | 0:58:27 | |
Call... | 0:58:27 | 0:58:27 | |
Call... | 0:58:27 | 0:58:30 | |
If you'd like to be in the audience. | 0:58:30 | 0:58:32 | |
Or you can go to the
Question Time website. | 0:58:32 | 0:58:34 | |
The address is there. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:35 | |
You just follow the instructions. | 0:58:35 | 0:58:37 | |
As always now, if you want
to have a say in what we've | 0:58:37 | 0:58:40 | |
been talking about,
Question Time extra | 0:58:40 | 0:58:41 | |
time is on BBC 5 Live
on | 0:58:41 | 0:58:43 | |
the radio. | 0:58:43 | 0:58:44 | |
And you can watch it
on the BBC iPlayer. | 0:58:44 | 0:58:46 | |
My thanks to our panel
and to all of you who came to | 0:58:46 | 0:58:49 | |
this wonderful location tonight. | 0:58:49 | 0:58:50 | |
Until next Thursday,
from Yeovil or Yeovilton, | 0:58:50 | 0:58:52 | |
however you like to look
at | 0:58:52 | 0:58:53 | |
it, from Question Time, good night. | 0:58:53 | 0:59:01 |