01/03/2018 Question Time


01/03/2018

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 01/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Tonight, we're in Blackpool,

and welcome to Question Time.

0:00:040:00:10

And with us on the panel tonight,

the former Chancellor

0:00:150:00:18

of the Exchequer, Home Secretary

and everything else you can think

0:00:180:00:20

of, and MP for 47 years,

no fan of Brexit, Ken Clarke.

0:00:200:00:25

Labour's Shadow Secretary of State

for Northern Ireland,

0:00:250:00:27

who stood against Jeremy Corbyn

for the leadership of

0:00:270:00:29

the Labour Party, Owen Smith.

0:00:290:00:31

The former leader of Ukip,

who led the campaign

0:00:310:00:34

for a referendum on the EU,

Nigel Farage.

0:00:340:00:37

The businesswoman, politician,

former winner of the Apprentice,

0:00:370:00:39

Michelle Dewberry.

0:00:390:00:43

And the television presenter,

Radzi Chinyanganya,

0:00:430:00:44

Blue Peter presenter,

just back from Seoul,

0:00:440:00:47

where he was covering

the Winter Olympics.

0:00:470:00:55

Good, thank you very much.

0:01:010:01:03

Well, we have a lot to get through,

but just a reminder, from home,

0:01:030:01:06

if you want to join in the arguments

you can use #BBCQT

0:01:060:01:09

on both Twitter and Facebook,

and argue the toss.

0:01:090:01:12

Our first question tonight

is from Rachael Lord, please.

0:01:120:01:17

With less than 400 days

until Britain leaves the EU,

0:01:170:01:19

has the government wasted

the last 616 days?

0:01:190:01:23

Right, 616 days wasted.

0:01:230:01:25

400 days to go.

0:01:250:01:26

Have they been wasted?

0:01:260:01:27

Nigel Farage.

0:01:270:01:29

Well, in some ways they have,

because it's all a bit

0:01:290:01:33

contradictory, isn't it?

0:01:330:01:34

Because Theresa May gives

the Lancaster House speech

0:01:340:01:36

in January last year, and I'm

listening to her and I'm thinking,

0:01:360:01:39

"I don't believe this".

0:01:390:01:40

Here's a British Prime Minister

using exactly the same words

0:01:400:01:42

and phrases that I've

been using for 20 years,

0:01:420:01:45

without being called extremist

or mad or bad.

0:01:450:01:49

And I thought, "Wow, we've really

got a government here that's

0:01:490:01:52

"going to deliver on the things

that people voted for".

0:01:520:01:57

And then a few months later,

her second big speech

0:01:570:02:01

on Brexit was in Florence,

when she says, "Well,

0:02:010:02:03

"we are leaving the European Union

but it's a really fantastic

0:02:030:02:06

"organisation, and we are going

to sign back up to justice and home

0:02:060:02:09

"affairs and cooperation in this

and that the other".

0:02:090:02:13

And you think, "Well, are we really

leaving, or aren't we"?

0:02:130:02:16

And when she was asked a question

on a radio show recently,

0:02:160:02:19

if there was a referendum now,

how would she vote, she couldn't

0:02:190:02:22

answer the question.

0:02:220:02:23

And I just feel...

0:02:230:02:25

I know she's in a tight corner,

I know it's difficult,

0:02:250:02:31

she's got people like old Clarke

over here, you know,

0:02:310:02:33

and Anna Soubry, and it's

difficult for her.

0:02:330:02:35

But I do think these mixed

messages need to end.

0:02:350:02:38

She is giving this

big speech tomorrow.

0:02:380:02:40

I think she needs to come

out with some clarity

0:02:400:02:43

and she needs to put a counter

to what Monsieur Barnier put

0:02:430:02:46

on the table yesterday.

0:02:460:02:49

We need to say, "Right,

this is what we are after.

0:02:490:02:52

"We are reasonable people,

we are prepared to compromise,

0:02:520:02:54

"but unless you are prepared to stop

treating us like a hostage,

0:02:540:02:57

"to treat us with some respect,

then we will say that no deal

0:02:570:03:00

"is better than a bad deal,

and walk away".

0:03:000:03:05

And unless she does that tomorrow,

the EU will not, in my opinion,

0:03:050:03:08

take her seriously,

and we will go wasting time.

0:03:080:03:11

APPLAUSE

0:03:110:03:18

Where would you compromise?

0:03:180:03:20

I thought Brexit meant Brexit,

to you of all people.

0:03:200:03:22

Brexit does mean Brexit.

0:03:220:03:23

Of course there are compromises.

0:03:230:03:24

I mean, you know, we need to talk

about the financial settlement.

0:03:240:03:28

And if there's a couple of bob

we need to pay them, we'll do it.

0:03:280:03:31

I mean things like that,

we'll be reasonable.

0:03:310:03:34

On Northern Ireland,

to sort out the border issue

0:03:340:03:36

there needs to be compromise

actually on both sides.

0:03:360:03:38

So of course we are reasonable,

but what is for certain is every

0:03:380:03:44

single major player in that

referendum campaign, Ken included,

0:03:440:03:48

said if we vote to leave,

we are leaving the single market,

0:03:480:03:50

and by implication,

the customs union.

0:03:500:03:55

And of course David Cameron said it,

all your team on the Remain side

0:03:550:03:58

said it, all the Leave team said it.

0:03:580:04:00

And that's the point.

0:04:000:04:01

Unless we leave the customs union

and the single market,

0:04:010:04:05

we will not be able to go global

and to get the benefits that ought

0:04:050:04:09

to come from Brexit.

0:04:090:04:10

OK, Ken Clarke then.

0:04:100:04:12

APPLAUSE

0:04:120:04:14

Back to the question,

have the government wasted the last

0:04:140:04:17

616 days, with only 400 to go?

0:04:170:04:19

Well, there have been mistakes,

because it was a mistake

0:04:190:04:21

to invoke Article 50 before

we were ready to start.

0:04:210:04:23

And that is because some

of the Eurosceptics were getting

0:04:230:04:26

rather paranoid, as they still are,

that they are going to be

0:04:260:04:29

cheated somehow, it's

still not going to happen.

0:04:290:04:31

So this was meant to be

a flagship statement.

0:04:310:04:33

And we weren't ready

to negotiate anything.

0:04:330:04:35

Is that why you voted against it?

0:04:350:04:37

I voted against it because I stuck

to my lifelong convictions of

0:04:370:04:41

believing in the European project.

0:04:410:04:42

Regardless of what the British

public voted for at the referendum.

0:04:420:04:45

I made it quite clear that I thought

it was not a suitable

0:04:450:04:49

thing for a referendum.

0:04:490:04:49

I thought it was absurd to have

one day, such a broad

0:04:490:04:52

question with hundreds

of complicated questions below.

0:04:520:04:53

And that's the problem now.

0:04:530:04:55

Because nobody actually debated

what is going to be years of quite

0:04:550:04:58

competitive negotiations.

0:04:580:05:02

Nobody addressed

what Leave would be.

0:05:020:05:04

Nobody thought Leave

was going to win.

0:05:040:05:05

Nigel didn't.

0:05:050:05:10

I heard him cheerily

on the night of the count.

0:05:100:05:12

He was saying the struggle

continues, and went to bed,

0:05:120:05:16

and then was amazed,

as Boris was shocked, to discover

0:05:160:05:18

that they'd actually won.

0:05:180:05:19

And nobody had actually even begun

to think through that what we're

0:05:190:05:22

doing if we follow this decision

is actually taking apart over 40

0:05:220:05:28

years in which we've actually

prospered, done well,

0:05:280:05:32

been quite a prominent country

in a rules-based

0:05:320:05:34

international order,

globalised economy,

0:05:340:05:38

major free-trade system,

our role in the world as one

0:05:380:05:42

of the major players in the EU,

that's why we are so important

0:05:420:05:46

to the United States and so on.

0:05:460:05:47

And our modern economy

has been based on this.

0:05:470:05:50

Now, all this we have to go

through item by item.

0:05:500:05:54

The problem with the debate is,

like all trade treaties

0:05:540:05:57

and political treaties,

it is so complicated,

0:05:570:06:00

you don't normally have a public

debate about it at all.

0:06:000:06:05

I mean, the technocrats

who negotiate it and a few anoraks

0:06:050:06:08

in the House of Commons

and the people in the CBI

0:06:080:06:12

and the trade unions,

0:06:120:06:13

are usually the only people who get

into this kind of picture.

0:06:130:06:18

So as time goes by, and people want

an instant, simple solution,

0:06:180:06:21

and it's not going to happen.

0:06:210:06:24

Optimistic, are you, in 400 days

the thing will be sorted?

0:06:240:06:27

I don't think there's the slightest

chance of our having arrived

0:06:270:06:30

at the final destination

in 400 days.

0:06:300:06:32

I think we need a transition period

of at least two years.

0:06:320:06:35

And as long as it takes to actually

have grown up, sorted out details

0:06:350:06:40

of what the new relationships

are going to be, that don't disrupt

0:06:400:06:47

some people's business,

or don't disrupt some

0:06:470:06:48

of our industries or

services and so on.

0:06:480:06:51

Behind all the passion about Brexit,

there are an awful lot of things,

0:06:510:06:55

important to our society,

important to our jobs,

0:06:550:06:59

our investment, also our security.

0:06:590:07:01

And our environment and other

things, have to be sorted out.

0:07:010:07:05

So 600 days, it's a pity

we haven't made further

0:07:050:07:08

progress, but there we are.

0:07:080:07:10

Michelle Dewberry.

0:07:100:07:11

APPLAUSE

0:07:110:07:16

Well, so, firstly I agree

with you in the sense

0:07:160:07:19

of there was no plans made,

I don't think, to consider

0:07:190:07:22

the outcome of Brexit.

0:07:220:07:25

And I think that was

absolutely disgraceful.

0:07:250:07:26

And you say that, Ken,

as though it's someone else's

0:07:260:07:29

responsibility to have

done that thinking.

0:07:290:07:32

I feel very strongly

that the government let us down

0:07:320:07:35

by not even having a plan for Brexit

when it happened.

0:07:350:07:39

I do.

0:07:390:07:40

And I feel like that

was the government at

0:07:400:07:43

the time's responsibility.

0:07:430:07:44

Now, as for the last 616 days,

I would like to rewind that and play

0:07:440:07:48

it as a film and play either

the Benny Hill theme tune

0:07:480:07:51

or the hokey cokey over it,

because honestly, I have

0:07:510:07:54

found it so confusing.

0:07:540:07:59

We're in, we are out,

we want this, we don't want this,

0:07:590:08:01

there's impact statements,

oh, no, there's not.

0:08:010:08:03

It's now become something

where there's so much

0:08:030:08:06

political posturing,

almost like people are trying to get

0:08:060:08:10

political personal gain,

instead of coming together,

0:08:100:08:13

respecting the referendum result

and looking at how do we implement

0:08:130:08:17

this for the greater good

of the country in the future and not

0:08:170:08:21

for the greater good of a person's

political career going forward.

0:08:210:08:26

Let me come to some

of the audience and see what...

0:08:260:08:29

You, what do you think

about the way it's going?

0:08:290:08:32

You, sir, yes.

0:08:320:08:33

I would like to just concur

with what Nigel was saying before.

0:08:330:08:36

I think the United Kingdom,

currently, there was never a time

0:08:360:08:40

like the present when we need

a strong leader, whoever that is.

0:08:400:08:44

And unless somebody at the top

can show us some teeth,

0:08:440:08:49

because I've not seen it myself yet,

it's as you say, we're just getting

0:08:490:08:52

mixed messages all the time

and no clarity whatsoever.

0:08:520:08:56

Who would you like

to see leading this?

0:08:560:08:58

I don't really care who leads,

I just want to see a strong person.

0:08:580:09:01

The person up there

at the very back.

0:09:010:09:06

Yes.

0:09:060:09:07

This is the whole problem.

0:09:070:09:08

If it had remained a common market,

which is what it was set out to be

0:09:080:09:12

before I was old enough to vote

in or out.

0:09:120:09:14

It was a common market.

0:09:140:09:16

People wouldn't have

an issue with that.

0:09:160:09:17

We have a common market

where we all traded together

0:09:170:09:20

and a security arrangement.

0:09:200:09:21

But it's got far too

complicated, as is shown by how

0:09:210:09:23

complicated it is to unravel.

0:09:230:09:24

It's going to take ages and ages

to unravel and unpick it

0:09:240:09:27

and decide what we do want

and what we don't want.

0:09:270:09:30

Are you dismayed by that?

0:09:300:09:31

Yes.

0:09:310:09:32

Owen Smith.

0:09:320:09:35

I don't think they've wasted it

so much as they've been scrapping

0:09:350:09:38

amongst themselves because this

is incredibly complicated.

0:09:380:09:40

Michelle is right, the government

had not prepared properly.

0:09:400:09:42

Nigel definitely didn't think

he was going to win.

0:09:420:09:44

He was clearly delighted

that he did win.

0:09:440:09:47

Well, I tried damn hard.

0:09:470:09:49

I think you've been

extremely influential.

0:09:490:09:51

I've been very trying, yes.

0:09:510:09:54

Very influential, unfortunately.

0:09:540:10:00

But the truth is, it's

incredibly complicated.

0:10:000:10:02

The lady there said that she wished

we were still in the common market.

0:10:020:10:05

Well, common market,

the modern equivalent

0:10:050:10:08

of that is effectively staying

in the customs union

0:10:080:10:10

and the single market.

0:10:100:10:12

But the Tories don't want to stay

in the customs union.

0:10:120:10:15

They don't want to stay

in the single market, they say.

0:10:150:10:17

They thought we had sorted

out what we were going

0:10:170:10:20

to do on transition.

0:10:200:10:21

Ken talks about a two-year period

being needed for that.

0:10:210:10:23

Now we're not even sure what they're

going to do for transition.

0:10:230:10:26

Northern Ireland, that

I'm responsible for,

0:10:260:10:28

has obviously caught

all the headlines this week.

0:10:280:10:30

Nobody had given any

thought to that.

0:10:300:10:33

Nigel didn't talk about it.

0:10:330:10:34

Nobody really knew how

we were going to maintain

0:10:340:10:36

the Good Friday Agreement

and an open border in Ireland.

0:10:360:10:38

And so we are, after the referendum,

trying to sort out these

0:10:380:10:42

incredibly thorny issues,

and it is going to take a long time.

0:10:420:10:45

And it isn't helped, frankly,

by people like Nigel saying,

0:10:450:10:48

"Get on with it, we've got

to deliver it tomorrow".

0:10:480:10:51

And he's doing that, of course,

for his political purposes.

0:10:510:10:53

No.

0:10:530:10:55

He's doing that because he believes

it puts him back in the spotlight.

0:10:550:10:58

The truth is we've

got to get it right.

0:10:580:11:00

We voted to leave.

0:11:000:11:01

But we didn't vote on all of those

separate complex issues, Nigel.

0:11:010:11:05

Do you accept that every major

player on the Remain and Leave side

0:11:050:11:08

said if we vote to leave,

we are leaving the single market?

0:11:080:11:12

No.

0:11:120:11:15

You don't accept that.

0:11:150:11:16

I saw Daniel Hannan,

the Conservative MP,

0:11:160:11:19

saying explicitly nobody is talking

about leaving the single market.

0:11:190:11:24

I saw Owen Paterson,

who is the Northern Ireland

0:11:240:11:27

Secretary, saying explicitly,

nobody is talking about

0:11:280:11:30

leaving the single market.

0:11:300:11:31

They are two of the leading

Brexit campaigners.

0:11:310:11:33

I said major players.

0:11:330:11:34

You mean you, Nigel?

0:11:340:11:39

I mean Boris, Michael Gove,

really senior figures.

0:11:390:11:43

Shall we allow a new member

of the panel to have a word?

0:11:430:11:46

Radzi.

0:11:460:11:47

I'm getting really bored of hearing

the politicians tell us

0:11:470:11:49

what they believe we really

voted for when it came

0:11:490:11:52

to the EU referendum.

0:11:520:11:54

I actually spent one month

in Pyeongchang working

0:11:540:11:58

at the Winter Olympics.

0:11:580:12:00

I came back, and it feels

like nothing's changed whatsoever.

0:12:000:12:02

To come to your point, Rachel,

think it's a really good one.

0:12:020:12:05

The waters have been muddied so much

with the customs union,

0:12:050:12:07

duplicitous semantics

where we are sort of having

0:12:070:12:11

one finger in one pie,

one finger in another.

0:12:110:12:15

And for me, the whole point

of the referendum was,

0:12:150:12:17

do we want independence,

or do we want unity?

0:12:170:12:19

I think the public have

actually voted on this.

0:12:190:12:21

I think we know where we stand.

0:12:210:12:23

And I think to take us anywhere

elsewhere is to do us,

0:12:230:12:26

as an electorate, a disservice.

0:12:260:12:28

And actually I think it's

undemocratic to question

0:12:280:12:31

the will of the people,

regardless of which way you voted.

0:12:310:12:33

We know the direction of travel

now, and let's actually

0:12:330:12:36

move in that direction.

0:12:360:12:38

APPLAUSE

0:12:380:12:44

Carrying on, really,

from what Ken Clarke said,

0:12:440:12:46

that it hadn't been thought

through properly, it wasn't thought

0:12:460:12:50

through before we went in properly.

0:12:500:12:54

Nobody told us that

our fishing industries

0:12:540:12:55

were going to be decimated.

0:12:550:12:57

And many other things.

0:12:570:13:00

And following on from what that

lady up there said, yes,

0:13:000:13:03

it has got very complicated.

0:13:030:13:04

We voted...

0:13:040:13:06

Well, I didn't vote, actually.

0:13:060:13:08

I think it's the worst thing

that this country has

0:13:080:13:10

ever been dragged into.

0:13:100:13:11

You didn't vote because you were

against the idea of the vote?

0:13:110:13:14

I was totally opposed to the idea

right from the beginning.

0:13:140:13:17

We've always been an independent

country, and anybody under the age

0:13:170:13:20

of 40 has never lived

in a free country.

0:13:200:13:22

Think about that.

0:13:220:13:29

And over there, yes.

0:13:290:13:30

Sorry, yes.

0:13:300:13:31

My question is really that this

is one of the biggest decisions

0:13:310:13:34

we're going to make for our country

since World War II.

0:13:340:13:37

And I think we went

into a referendum with hardly any

0:13:370:13:39

information whatsoever.

0:13:390:13:40

We had figures quoted

on the back of a red bus

0:13:400:13:44

which we were sucked into believing.

0:13:440:13:45

And as the impact and

the indications of going

0:13:450:13:47

into the referendum,

and the agreement we are going

0:13:470:13:49

to come out with suggests

we are going to be a different

0:13:490:13:52

place, I genuinely feel

that the people who voted to leave

0:13:520:13:54

did not have the relevant facts.

0:13:540:13:56

Now, as the facts come

on the table, we need a genuine

0:13:560:13:59

requirement to go back again.

0:13:590:14:01

Karen Hines.

0:14:010:14:03

We'll take up your point.

0:14:030:14:04

Karen Hines.

0:14:040:14:06

That was you!

0:14:060:14:07

It was.

0:14:070:14:08

Well, you've had your say,

now put your question.

0:14:080:14:11

What was your question going to be?

0:14:110:14:15

My question is, was John Major right

to suggest that once we understand

0:14:150:14:18

the impact of leaving the EU,

should we actually go back

0:14:180:14:20

to the people to actually vote

for what is on the table?

0:14:200:14:24

So a second vote,

a second referendum?

0:14:240:14:29

That's what John Major

was suggesting, either through

0:14:290:14:32

Parliament or through the public

vote, that once we understand

0:14:320:14:34

what we are actually

agreeing to leave with,

0:14:340:14:37

rather than the fiction

that was propagated earlier,

0:14:370:14:40

once we get those facts

on the table,

0:14:400:14:42

should we actually revisit and say,

is this the deal we thought

0:14:420:14:45

we were voting for the first time?

0:14:450:14:49

Michelle Dewberry, do

you think that's a good idea?

0:14:490:14:51

I just don't really see...

0:14:510:14:52

I voted Leave, and I share

concerns that actually

0:14:520:14:55

there was misinformation

on both sides.

0:14:550:14:59

For me, it was so focused

on fighting with each other instead

0:14:590:15:02

of articulating things

properly to us.

0:15:020:15:04

So I share that concern.

0:15:040:15:12

But I don't see how a second

referendum could work

0:15:130:15:15

because if the EU knew that actually

we're just going to have a second

0:15:150:15:19

referendum and therefore

we could potentially undo the first

0:15:190:15:21

one, why would they work hard

to give us a deal of any substance?

0:15:210:15:25

But they're not.

0:15:250:15:26

I don't see they would.

0:15:260:15:28

But they're not, are they?

0:15:280:15:29

They're not.

0:15:290:15:30

They're absolutely not

doing that at all.

0:15:300:15:31

OK you sir, up there,

with the spectacles on.

0:15:310:15:33

On the gangway there.

0:15:330:15:35

All we need is a strong leader

who is going to give us a direction

0:15:350:15:41

in what direction we're going to go.

0:15:410:15:43

There's no strong leadership to give

us any sort of focus

0:15:430:15:46

and all the country should get

behind us from that point.

0:15:460:15:49

So in the absence of what you call

a strong leader, what happens?

0:15:490:15:52

What do you think

is going to happen?

0:15:520:15:54

It's going to be side

to side all the time.

0:15:540:15:56

You've got polarisation

between both parties.

0:15:560:15:58

You need a strong leader and then

the opposition needs

0:15:580:16:00

to go along with them.

0:16:000:16:01

Nigel Farage, you once

flirted with the idea

0:16:010:16:03

of a second referendum?

0:16:030:16:04

No, I didn't, I said I feared.

0:16:040:16:06

Feared, all right.

0:16:060:16:07

Because there is a great

Brexit betrayal going on,

0:16:070:16:10

that parliament may force a second

referendum upon us.

0:16:100:16:12

I pray they don't, but I do

fear and I think some

0:16:120:16:16

of the people in this panel

would like a second referendum.

0:16:160:16:20

I think you did say you wanted

a second referendum.

0:16:200:16:22

It was his policy.

0:16:220:16:23

He said he wanted one.

0:16:230:16:24

Of course not.

0:16:240:16:25

You said you wanted one.

0:16:250:16:26

No, no.

0:16:260:16:27

The point is, I don't want a second

referendum, but I fear it.

0:16:270:16:31

For John Major to say -

and they're all doing it -

0:16:310:16:33

any of you here that voted

Brexit, you're thick.

0:16:330:16:36

You're stupid.

0:16:360:16:37

You didn't understand

what you're doing.

0:16:370:16:38

He did not say that.

0:16:380:16:39

We're sick to death of insults

from people like John Major.

0:16:390:16:42

That's insulting to John Major.

0:16:420:16:43

We knew exactly what

we were voting on.

0:16:430:16:45

We voted to become an independent

country - full stop.

0:16:450:16:47

Mr Farage, can I challenge

that slightly and say,

0:16:470:16:50

when we voted to leave,

did we know we were leaving

0:16:500:16:53

the customs union and did we notice

that we're actually going to vote

0:16:530:16:56

for a Northern-Southern

Ireland border.

0:16:560:17:00

That was never brought up at all.

0:17:000:17:02

Let me just go around

the panel again.

0:17:020:17:05

Ken Clarke, what is your view?

0:17:050:17:07

Great, I'll come back to you.

0:17:070:17:10

But, what is your view about how

this thing should be endorsed,

0:17:100:17:13

if it should be, either

by referendum or by parliament?

0:17:130:17:15

Well, sticking to the serious

subject, because Nigel sort of just

0:17:150:17:19

starts insulting John Major and then

-

Wow, I tell you what...

0:17:190:17:27

Just starts insulting John Major

and then serious to future

-

0:17:300:17:33

Wow, I tell you what...

0:17:330:17:37

It is very serious to future

generations what we're talking

0:17:370:17:39

about actually and should not be

reduced to that kind

0:17:390:17:42

of rubbish, frankly.

0:17:420:17:43

APPLAUSE.

0:17:430:17:44

I do agree that the referendum

campaign was - certainly as reported

0:17:440:17:47

in the national media

- was disastrous.

0:17:470:17:48

I mean a load of rubbish

from both sides was reported.

0:17:480:17:51

Absolutely none of the issues

being talked about now.

0:17:510:17:53

I did some town hall meetings

with leading figures of the other

0:17:530:17:56

side and there were perfectly

sensible exchanges on both

0:17:560:17:58

sides some of them.

0:17:580:17:59

None of that actually

was shared with the public.

0:17:590:18:01

Anybody who didn't know much

about the European Union

0:18:010:18:03

was probably more mystified

by the end of the campaign

0:18:030:18:06

than they had been at the start.

0:18:060:18:08

So there's a danger

we'd repeat that.

0:18:080:18:09

I mean, I'm an eccentric remainer,

if you like, I don't want

0:18:090:18:12

a second referendum.

0:18:120:18:13

Particularly, as I've just said,

it is on a hugely complex series

0:18:130:18:16

of treaties which you're not

going to have a serious

0:18:160:18:18

debate about.

0:18:180:18:20

The problem with the broad brush

question before was -

0:18:200:18:25

on both sides, remain and leave -

everybody didn't vote

0:18:250:18:27

for the same reason.

0:18:270:18:31

People voted remain,

some of them with different

0:18:310:18:39

reasons from each other.

0:18:390:18:40

We know all that, but should

parliament have a final say?

0:18:400:18:43

When I say I declared no sane reason

for leaving erratum,

0:18:430:18:45

I'm told that my master's the people

who've ordered me to leave erratum.

0:18:450:18:48

With the greatest respect,

I don't think I'm being too arrogant

0:18:480:18:51

in saying, I don't think most

of my constituents had

0:18:510:18:53

any view on erratum,

you'd have to do them the courtesy

0:18:530:18:57

of explaining what nuclear

safeguarding work (inaudible)

0:18:570:18:59

before you leave it -

Do you have a view about

0:18:590:19:02

whether there should be

a parliamentary vote at the end

0:19:020:19:04

of the day?

0:19:040:19:05

I think there should be a free vote.

0:19:050:19:07

It's very good because,

if you had a free vote,

0:19:070:19:09

both parties would collapse.

0:19:090:19:11

They're both hopelessly divided.

0:19:110:19:12

The reason you have such bizarre,

rather mixed messages

0:19:120:19:14

as the official party programme

is coming out is, Theresa

0:19:140:19:20

can't get her Cabinet

to agree with each other.

0:19:200:19:22

She's negotiating -

Can't get you to agree with her!

0:19:220:19:24

Obviously, I'm not in the Cabinet.

0:19:240:19:26

She's negotiating with Boris more

than she's able to negotiate

0:19:260:19:28

with Michel Barnier or anybody else.

0:19:280:19:31

On the Labour side, the vast

majority of them are pro-European,

0:19:310:19:35

but Corbyn and McDonnell are two

of the most hard line eurosceptics

0:19:350:19:38

in the House of Commons.

0:19:380:19:41

Now, members of parliament,

two-thirds of them will be in favour

0:19:410:19:47

of staying in the Common Market,

which is now called the single

0:19:470:19:50

market and the customs union.

0:19:500:19:51

Is that how they're going

to vote and that's what's

0:19:510:19:54

going to happen, is it?

0:19:540:19:55

Well, a free vote would hope

because they're terrified

0:19:550:20:03

-- help of the whips

and they're terrified

0:20:110:20:13

of the Daily Mail because they're

0:20:130:20:15

denounced as traitors,

enemies of the people if they don't

0:20:150:20:17

realise that every one of those

millions who voted remain knew it

0:20:170:20:20

meant leaving the customs union,

which they most certainly didn't

0:20:200:20:22

or had views on the Irish

border, apparently.

0:20:220:20:24

I don't remember it being mentioned.

0:20:240:20:26

Radzi, do you want to see parliament

vote on this, in the way that

0:20:260:20:29

Ken has just explained?

0:20:290:20:30

That probably it will turn down

a lot of the ideas that

0:20:300:20:33

Nigel Farage has and others had

when they voted to leave?

0:20:330:20:36

For me, no, and it's very simple.

0:20:360:20:37

In 1975, when we had

the original EU referendum,

0:20:370:20:39

the answer was we wanted to remain

in at that point.

0:20:390:20:42

There was no question about by how

much we want to remain

0:20:420:20:45

in and let's negotiate that,

and let's nusiance it.

0:20:450:20:47

There was no question then.

0:20:470:20:48

But now the answer has been Brexit,

we're now going to change it

0:20:480:20:51

to the answer we feel

the will of the power wants.

0:20:510:20:54

But in addition to that,

I think there's a broader question

0:20:540:20:57

about what is politics

and what is democracy?

0:20:570:20:59

Why is it that we're only allowed

one vote every five years,

0:20:590:21:02

we do have by-elections as well.

0:21:020:21:03

On X Factor, on Strictly Come

Dancing you can vote weekly,

0:21:030:21:06

immediately with your phones.

0:21:060:21:07

All right.

0:21:070:21:08

Heaven help us.

0:21:080:21:09

God forbid an election.

0:21:090:21:10

A weekly referendum.

0:21:100:21:11

He's got a point, I think.

0:21:110:21:12

Yes, yes.

0:21:120:21:13

For some of us, we would be

in business anyway.

0:21:130:21:16

You, sir.

0:21:160:21:17

I was a vote Leave co-ordinator

and people voted for various

0:21:170:21:19

different reasons, a number

of different reasons,

0:21:190:21:21

it wasn't one particular one.

0:21:210:21:22

But two members of the audience

I think have hit it spot on tonight,

0:21:220:21:26

it's about leadership.

0:21:260:21:27

Owen's very eloquent and spoke very

well tonight with regard

0:21:270:21:29

to the Labour position,

but it's very important that

0:21:290:21:31

Corbyn has a role to play,

and I'm a Conservative

0:21:310:21:34

and the Government is leading,

but it needs to be every political

0:21:340:21:37

party has to show true leadership

and the flip flopping by Labour,

0:21:370:21:39

over the last 12 months,

I just think has been disgraceful.

0:21:390:21:42

What do you make of this change,

apparent change, in Labour's policy?

0:21:420:21:45

There'll be another

change next week.

0:21:450:21:47

That's what we've put up

with for the last 12 months.

0:21:470:21:50

There's no direction,

political direction and every

0:21:500:21:53

party has to play a role.

0:21:530:21:55

They said they're in favour

of the customs union.

0:21:550:21:57

They want to stay in that.

0:21:570:21:59

They are this week, but we don't

know whether that's going to be

0:21:590:22:02

the same case going forward.

0:22:020:22:03

Oh, I see.

0:22:030:22:04

That's the difficulty.

0:22:040:22:05

Each political party has to set

out what they believe,

0:22:050:22:07

and there will be an influence

on the outcome of the overall

0:22:070:22:10

negotiations, but at the moment

you've not got the effective

0:22:100:22:13

opposition that actually makes

the Government stronger as well.

0:22:130:22:15

I think Theresa's doing the best

she is, but each political

0:22:150:22:17

party has to play a role.

0:22:170:22:19

OK, you in the front row there.

0:22:190:22:21

Hold on, wait a second.

0:22:210:22:22

OK, fire away.

0:22:220:22:23

Just to draw back to the original

point that was made,

0:22:230:22:25

I'm just going to back to it.

0:22:250:22:27

First of all the lady

over here on my left.

0:22:270:22:30

Quite frankly, as someone who also

voted to leave the European Union,

0:22:300:22:34

well educated in politics,

I find it absolutely unruly how

0:22:340:22:37

she can even come out

with that, physically form it

0:22:370:22:39

in her mind.

0:22:390:22:40

APPLAUSE.

0:22:400:22:41

Moving on from that.

0:22:410:22:44

In terms of John Major,

obviously I've seen the speech that

0:22:440:22:52

he's done recently and what he's

saying is serious, but how can

0:22:530:22:58

we treat what he's saying is serious

because he back tracked.

0:22:580:23:01

Was it not him that, first of all,

put us in the Maastricht Treaty,

0:23:010:23:04

all those years ago,

and led the way.

0:23:040:23:06

And now he's back tracked and he's

trying to say that Theresa May's

0:23:060:23:10

wrong for what she's doing.

0:23:100:23:11

How do we know that Theresa May's

not going to change her mind?

0:23:110:23:15

And all this time that it's actually

taken us to get out of Brexit,

0:23:150:23:18

get out of the European Union,

which is something we voted for,

0:23:180:23:21

whether it's 1% over

what we need or what,

0:23:210:23:23

it doesn't matter

what the percentage is,

0:23:230:23:25

we voted, and that's that.

0:23:250:23:26

So in the time that it's

taking for us to get out

0:23:260:23:29

of the European Union,

how many people are going

0:23:290:23:31

to change their mind

between between now and then,

0:23:310:23:34

just like John Major did?

0:23:340:23:35

OK.

0:23:350:23:36

What do you think of John Major

endorsing the policy

0:23:360:23:38

of which you ran as Deputy Leader

of the Labour Party,

0:23:380:23:41

a second referendum before

everything is signed off?

0:23:410:23:43

I think John Major's views should be

taking absolutely seriously.

0:23:430:23:45

He was Prime Minister

of this country.

0:23:450:23:47

He was the man who started the peace

process that delivered eventually

0:23:470:23:50

the Good Friday Agreement.

0:23:500:23:52

He is someone whose views I think

are seriously put and I don't think

0:23:520:23:55

Nigel should be insulting to him

in the way in which

0:23:550:23:58

he was a minute ago.

0:23:580:23:59

Hang on, John Major insulted

17.4 million people,

0:23:590:24:01

I just insulted him.

0:24:010:24:04

No, he didn't.

0:24:040:24:05

APPLAUSE.

0:24:050:24:06

All right, the person

at the back there.

0:24:060:24:08

Yes.

0:24:080:24:09

Hold on a second.

0:24:090:24:10

Yes, the person there,

in the back row.

0:24:100:24:12

With the parties collapsing

and the divisions that

0:24:120:24:15

are in British politics

at the moment, is the time not right

0:24:150:24:18

for a new party to be formed

and for this party to actually do

0:24:180:24:22

what the British people voted for?

0:24:220:24:24

What kind of party?

0:24:240:24:25

Would that be a kind of Ukip kind

of party by any chance?

0:24:250:24:28

Oh no, not necessarily.

0:24:280:24:34

What?

0:24:340:24:35

Not necessarily.

0:24:350:24:36

But maybe people from all parties

could come together to sort out this

0:24:360:24:40

issue rather than the parties

fighting within each other

0:24:400:24:42

and against each other.

0:24:420:24:43

OK.

0:24:430:24:44

Let's just take a slightly

different point.

0:24:440:24:46

Peter, can we have your question.

0:24:460:24:47

Peter.

0:24:470:24:48

67% of Blackpool voted leave.

0:24:480:24:52

Has Jeremy Corbyn's U-turn betrayed

millions of its northern

0:24:520:24:54

Labour leave voters?

0:24:540:24:58

This is what you call his U-turn,

saying Labour would stay

0:24:580:25:01

in the customs union now?

0:25:010:25:02

Yeah.

0:25:020:25:03

We're in a strong Brexit area,

Owen Smith, what do you make

0:25:030:25:06

of Jeremy Corbyn and that question?

0:25:060:25:08

Well, I don't think it is a U-turn.

0:25:080:25:09

We said previously we thought

the customs union...

0:25:090:25:11

we said previously we thought

the customs union should be

0:25:110:25:14

an option that the Tories should be

keeping on the table.

0:25:140:25:17

And the major reason we thought

that was about the prosperity

0:25:170:25:19

of this country and the need for us

to trade with our biggest trading

0:25:190:25:23

partners, the European Union,

with whom we do almost half

0:25:230:25:25

of our trade and because taxes

and tariffs would damage the incomes

0:25:250:25:28

of people in the north-west

and elsewhere across Britain.

0:25:280:25:31

But also because it's the one way

in which we can try and guarantee

0:25:310:25:35

that we keep the border open

in Northern Ireland,

0:25:350:25:38

between Northern Ireland

and the Irish Republic,

0:25:380:25:42

that is so important

to the underpinning

0:25:420:25:43

of the Good Friday Agreement.

0:25:430:25:45

All Jeremy has said this week

is that we've now decided

0:25:450:25:48

that we will negotiate membership

of a customs union in order

0:25:480:25:52

to achieve those two important

things and that the Tories -

0:25:520:25:56

who've ruled out staying

in the customs union -

0:25:560:25:58

are therefore creating the problem

that they cannot solve at present,

0:25:580:26:03

of the border in Northern Ireland.

0:26:030:26:06

And, unfortunately,

on their own sums, are condemning

0:26:060:26:08

this part of the world,

if we had the no deal

0:26:080:26:12

that Nigel talked about,

to see a reduction in GDP.

0:26:120:26:15

See a reduction in

earnings here of 12%.

0:26:150:26:18

Now, nobody at the

election was told that.

0:26:180:26:21

Double it, double it,

make it 25%, make it 50%.

0:26:210:26:24

It's nonsense.

0:26:240:26:27

It's not my number, Nigel,

it's the Tory Government's.

0:26:270:26:30

It's the civil service.

0:26:300:26:33

What do you expect?

0:26:330:26:34

It's our independent

civil service

- oh, yeah.

0:26:340:26:36

Working for a Tory government.

0:26:360:26:37

Owen Smith, some people think

that this is a ploy by Labour to get

0:26:370:26:40

a vote in the House of Commons that

will unseat Theresa May?

0:26:400:26:43

If you get a vote on it,

like Ken Clarke might vote for it -

0:26:430:26:47

But it won't unseat

Theresa May, but..

0:26:470:26:48

Oh, really?

0:26:480:26:52

I think we could win a vote

in the House of Commons

0:26:520:26:55

on the customs union.

0:26:550:26:56

The Blairites have been very

successful in getting Jeremy -

0:26:560:26:58

through gritted teeth -

to say he'll let it be

0:26:580:27:01

the Labour Party's policy

for the time being.

0:27:010:27:03

So, sorry.

0:27:030:27:04

You would vote for it and -

I have voted for it

0:27:040:27:07

several times already.

0:27:070:27:09

So how would that not,

if she lost the majority

0:27:090:27:12

in the House of Commons,

how would that not unseat her?

0:27:120:27:14

Because governments don't fall

if they lose an amendment to a bill

0:27:140:27:17

in the House of Commons.

0:27:170:27:18

They fall if there's a vote

of confidence for the purpose

0:27:180:27:21

and actually it's more complicated

nowadays because we passed an Act

0:27:210:27:24

of Parliament designed to make

parliaments last five years.

0:27:240:27:26

Again, it's everybody making it more

exciting in the newspapers and it

0:27:260:27:29

claims that if the Government loses

one vote, it falls.

0:27:290:27:31

We've beaten them once already.

0:27:310:27:32

They were trying to stop

parliament having a vote

0:27:320:27:35

at all on the final deal.

0:27:350:27:36

We had a majority for that.

0:27:360:27:37

There were 11 traitors, rebels,

enemies of the people,

0:27:370:27:40

all that kind of thing,

and now we're going to have a vote.

0:27:400:27:43

There wasn't a murmur

the next day that the Prime

0:27:430:27:45

Minister should resign.

0:27:450:27:46

It didn't threaten the Government.

0:27:460:27:47

I had not put Corbyn

in Downing Street.

0:27:470:27:49

It's all nonsense.

0:27:490:27:50

of Parliament designed to make

parliaments last five years.

0:27:500:27:52

Again, it's everybody making it more

exciting in the newspapers and it

0:27:520:27:55

claims that if the Government loses

one vote, it falls.

0:27:550:27:58

We've beaten them once already.

0:27:580:27:59

They were trying to stop

parliament having a vote

0:27:590:28:01

at all on the final deal.

0:28:010:28:03

We had a majority for that.

0:28:030:28:04

There were 11 traitors, rebels,

enemies of the people,

0:28:040:28:06

all that kind of thing,

and now we're going to have a vote.

0:28:060:28:09

There wasn't a murmur

the next day that the Prime

0:28:090:28:12

Minister should resign.

0:28:120:28:13

It didn't threaten the Government.

0:28:130:28:14

I had not put Corbyn

in Downing Street.

0:28:140:28:16

Supposing she said it was

a vote of confidence?

0:28:160:28:18

Well, she'd be very unwise to do so,

and the Chief Whip has already

0:28:180:28:21

said they won't do that.

0:28:210:28:23

It will be just completely crazy.

0:28:230:28:24

Brave.

0:28:240:28:25

Too complicated.

0:28:250:28:26

It would be completely crazy.

0:28:260:28:27

I mean, this exacerbation

is being felt all over the country,

0:28:270:28:30

I think with this process.

0:28:300:28:31

I'm afraid I warn you,

we haven't started

0:28:310:28:33

the serious negotiations yet.

0:28:330:28:34

You're going to have years of this.

0:28:340:28:36

How we will maintain a public debate

about it, I've no idea.

0:28:360:28:39

You'll collapse exhausted

I shold think at the end.

0:28:390:28:41

In the modern world,

60% of our trade, if you count

0:28:410:28:43

all the EU deals that we're members

of, 60% of our trade

0:28:430:28:46

is in trade agreements.

0:28:460:28:47

In the modern world,

countries like ours,

0:28:470:28:49

trade with other countries

with trade treaties.

0:28:490:28:51

I'll deal with just that one point.

0:28:510:28:52

Trade treaties and that

involves agreeing some

0:28:520:28:54

mutually binding rules,

regulations, the basis

0:28:540:28:56

standards, the basis

on which you're going to trade.

0:28:560:28:59

An arrangement for settling disputes

and all the things that people seem

0:28:590:29:02

to think we're getting rid of.

0:29:020:29:03

If you leave all our present

trading arrangements,

0:29:030:29:05

you've got to negotiate others.

0:29:050:29:06

All this stuff that Boris produced

in the speech after the referendum,

0:29:060:29:09

about global Britain and how

the Americans and the Chinese

0:29:090:29:11

and the Indians and the Brazilians

are waiting to throw

0:29:110:29:14

open their doors -

come in Britain, no rules.

0:29:140:29:16

You make your mind up how,

what you want to sell.

0:29:160:29:19

No conditions.

0:29:190:29:20

This is all a fantasy world.

0:29:200:29:21

We are going to leave.

0:29:210:29:23

They are queueing up, Ken.

0:29:230:29:25

They are not queueing up.

0:29:250:29:27

Countries all over the world

are queueing up to talk to us.

0:29:270:29:30

I've been involved

in trade negotiations.

0:29:300:29:32

I've been in business, too.

0:29:320:29:33

If you think you're going to get

a quick trade deal with China...

0:29:330:29:36

They're queueing.

0:29:360:29:37

..or with the United States,

you're living in cloud cuckoo land.

0:29:370:29:40

Negative.

0:29:400:29:41

It has to be done seriously.

0:29:410:29:43

Your Foreign Secretary is living

in cloud cuckoo land?

0:29:430:29:45

He certainly keeps coming up

with a lot of rather comic remarks,

0:29:450:29:48

I must say, which Boris

is very good at.

0:29:480:29:50

APPLAUSE.

0:29:500:29:52

Boris and Nigel are not frightfully

good on the way in which the modern

0:29:520:29:55

globalised economy works

and thousands and thousands

0:29:550:29:57

of jobs in this country

and our future prosperity depend

0:29:570:29:59

on being successful

in the globalised economy.

0:29:590:30:05

I have to stop you,

because I want to hear

0:30:050:30:07

from the gentleman up there.

0:30:070:30:09

Yes, you.

0:30:090:30:10

I'd just like to say to Ken,

you know it is a comic remark

0:30:100:30:13

telling people who voted Leave

that they didn't know

0:30:130:30:15

what they were voting for.

0:30:150:30:16

And just in response to the lady

down there, I'd like to ask,

0:30:160:30:19

what did you vote for?

0:30:190:30:21

Did you vote for an EU army?

0:30:210:30:22

Did you vote for Turkey

to join the EU?

0:30:220:30:24

Did you vote for an EU superstate,

an ever expanding EU state?

0:30:240:30:27

What did you vote for?

0:30:270:30:30

What kind of Remain did you want?

0:30:300:30:33

Who are you talking

to, the lady here?

0:30:330:30:35

All right, a brief answer.

0:30:350:30:37

I was going to ask you on the panel

but you can do it from there.

0:30:370:30:41

Keep it brief, if you would,

because we want to move on.

0:30:410:30:44

Of course.

0:30:440:30:46

I voted to Remain.

0:30:460:30:46

I didn't vote for Turkey,

I didn't vote for all those things

0:30:460:30:49

because it wasn't an option.

0:30:490:30:50

I voted Remain because I thought

that that's the best option for this

0:30:500:30:53

country in terms of its trade deal,

in terms of other things.

0:30:530:30:58

And I think one of the major

reasons people voted Leave

0:30:580:31:02

was because of the migration issue

and the people movement issue.

0:31:020:31:05

But we are not part of the Schengen

arrangement, so actually

0:31:050:31:08

we have the right to empower

ourselves not to have the level

0:31:080:31:12

of immigration that was causing

quite as much concern as it was.

0:31:120:31:16

So we have that power

within our own hands anyway.

0:31:160:31:19

APPLAUSE

0:31:190:31:22

And the woman in the fourth row.

0:31:220:31:23

Yes, you.

0:31:230:31:26

Be brief if you would because we

must move onto another point.

0:31:260:31:29

I just don't understand why

we are discussing another vote.

0:31:290:31:31

It's not uncommon that politicians,

you know, don't tell 100%

0:31:310:31:34

of the truth all the time.

0:31:340:31:36

At a time where there's

so much anxiety...

0:31:360:31:38

Really?

0:31:380:31:40

At a time where there's so much

anxiety going round and so much fear

0:31:400:31:46

over what's going to become

of the future, do not put

0:31:460:31:49

fear into democracy.

0:31:490:31:49

We voted for independence.

0:31:490:31:50

We might not have known the total

ins and outs of what it was,

0:31:500:31:54

we voted for independence.

0:31:540:31:56

Don't then put fear into democracy.

0:31:560:31:58

The people voted

for what they wanted,

0:31:580:32:00

and don't remove that

power from the people.

0:32:000:32:02

APPLAUSE

0:32:020:32:05

Hang on.

0:32:050:32:07

So you trust Parliament to get it

right, to interpret what you saw

0:32:070:32:10

as the vote on Brexit?

0:32:100:32:14

I hope Parliament will get it right.

0:32:140:32:16

I wasn't of age to vote

but I would have voted Remain.

0:32:160:32:19

However, the public body

as a whole voted to leave.

0:32:190:32:22

I hope Parliament will get it right

but I don't think sacrificing

0:32:220:32:26

democracy and taking away that power

that people were given,

0:32:260:32:29

that we fought so hard for,

to change our minds is the right

0:32:290:32:32

thing to do.

0:32:320:32:35

Michelle, what do you make

of the point about Corbyn's U-turn,

0:32:350:32:37

as he put it, betraying northern

Labour, places like Blackpool

0:32:370:32:41

that voted 67% Brexit?

0:32:410:32:43

Yeah, I completely agree,

I think it is a betrayal.

0:32:430:32:47

I think that people voted

to leave the European Union.

0:32:470:32:52

And when we're talking

about staying in a customs union,

0:32:520:32:55

which doesn't even exist

at the moment, we want to create

0:32:550:32:57

our own trade deals.

0:32:570:33:03

We cannot do that in

that customs union.

0:33:030:33:05

So the first point,

absolutely it is a betrayal

0:33:050:33:07

of what we voted for.

0:33:070:33:08

And to the second point, is it time

for a new party, absolutely.

0:33:080:33:12

I am 100% politically

homeless at the moment.

0:33:120:33:14

I was in the last election,

which is why I ran myself

0:33:140:33:16

as an independent.

0:33:160:33:18

And I feel even more so like that,

and I know there is an awful lot

0:33:180:33:22

of people like me that do not have

anyone to vote for at all.

0:33:220:33:26

APPLAUSE

0:33:260:33:32

Radzi, are you behind Corbyn

on this Labour policy?

0:33:320:33:34

It's just a point on Corbyn

generally, which for me is that he's

0:33:340:33:40

damned if he does and he's damned

if he doesn't.

0:33:400:33:42

And I feel that for me,

Jeremy Corbyn over the last two

0:33:420:33:45

years has had to endure and shoulder

a sluice of propaganda.

0:33:450:33:48

Whether it is about his suit,

the national anthem,

0:33:480:33:52

his friends in Hezbollah and Hamas.

0:33:520:33:55

AUDIENCE MEMBER SHOUTS.

0:33:550:33:57

That might be your opinion,

but for me, the way he's dealt

0:33:570:34:00

with it with honour,

with dignity and nobility,

0:34:000:34:02

that is what real leadership is.

0:34:020:34:08

I think we'll move on.

0:34:080:34:10

Can I make a quick point on that?

0:34:100:34:12

Very quick.

0:34:120:34:13

Because I know a lot about forming

new political parties and how

0:34:130:34:16

difficult it can be.

0:34:160:34:17

Three or four times!

0:34:170:34:18

Well, well...

0:34:180:34:19

But you know, Ukip was a phenomenon.

0:34:190:34:20

Ukip draw votes.

0:34:200:34:23

You said a quick point.

0:34:230:34:24

The real answer is, yes, Corbyn has

betrayed 4 million Brexit voters,

0:34:240:34:28

but the really interesting question,

the lady at the back,

0:34:280:34:31

if Brexit gets betrayed

there will be a new coming together

0:34:310:34:36

and a new party in British politics,

and of that I've got

0:34:360:34:39

no doubt whatsoever.

0:34:390:34:41

It's a taster!

0:34:410:34:46

We'll move on.

0:34:460:34:48

Just to say, Question Time

is going to be in London,

0:34:480:34:50

in Westminster next week.

0:34:500:34:52

And after that we are going to be

in Dover, the port of Dover.

0:34:520:34:55

If you want to come, on the screen

are the details of how to apply.

0:34:550:34:59

I'll give them,

as always, at the end.

0:34:590:35:01

But let's change subject now

and come to something

0:35:010:35:03

from Carol Henschel,

please, let's have your question.

0:35:030:35:08

Is it fair that on two occasions

planning permission to frack this

0:35:080:35:12

area was not approved

by the Council, and the

0:35:120:35:15

government overruled us?

0:35:150:35:19

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

0:35:190:35:27

Well, I can see it's

a popular question and it's

0:35:280:35:30

a very pertinent one here.

0:35:300:35:31

On the way into Blackpool

there are great signs on the roads

0:35:310:35:35

protesting against fracking,

and it's a sort of case test,

0:35:350:35:37

really, of whether the whole

industry of fracking should

0:35:370:35:39

get the go-ahead.

0:35:390:35:41

If it doesn't get

the go-ahead elsewhere,

0:35:410:35:43

should it get the go-ahead

here, and is it fair?

0:35:430:35:46

Michelle Dewberry, what do you make

of local people saying,

0:35:460:35:49

"We don't want it"

and being overruled?

0:35:490:35:53

I think fracking, for whatever

reason, it is an industry that has

0:35:530:35:57

completely failed to win over people

and to convince people

0:35:570:36:01

of their arguments.

0:36:010:36:03

I think people are

concerned about safety.

0:36:030:36:07

People don't want, whether it's

earthquakes and big firms denying

0:36:070:36:12

all knowledge and then admitting

down the line maybe it is.

0:36:120:36:15

It is a real safety concern,

and until those safety concerns

0:36:150:36:19

are properly addressed and people

understand what's going on,

0:36:190:36:24

until that point is reached,

we've got a problem.

0:36:240:36:26

And I don't understand

what it's going to take,

0:36:260:36:29

because it hasn't yet happened that

that industry has managed

0:36:290:36:32

to get people bought

into what they are doing

0:36:320:36:34

and the benefits of it and addressed

their real safety concerns.

0:36:340:36:37

So do you think it's

time will come when it's

0:36:370:36:40

being handled more dexterously?

0:36:400:36:44

Or do you think there are real

dangers and risks in it,

0:36:440:36:47

like local people here have opined?

0:36:470:36:49

I think it's something

that is still not understood enough

0:36:490:36:53

to the degree where we can make

a proper informed decision about it.

0:36:530:36:57

And I don't quite understand why.

0:36:570:36:58

It's a very unpopular

industry, and I understand

0:36:580:37:00

people's concerns here.

0:37:000:37:02

If it was in my back garden I'd have

concerns about it as well.

0:37:020:37:06

But I just think that the industry

needs to work closely

0:37:060:37:10

with government regulations

and residents to properly

0:37:100:37:12

communicate what it's doing

and to reassure those safety

0:37:120:37:15

concerns, if it wants

to get the go-ahead.

0:37:150:37:19

Nigel Farage, do you think it's

right of government to overrule

0:37:190:37:21

local opinion on this?

0:37:210:37:24

It's right for government to have

concerns, and Michelle's point

0:37:240:37:27

about a very effective

lobby against fracking.

0:37:270:37:30

They've been very good at it.

0:37:300:37:31

They've been very good at putting

the fear of God into people.

0:37:310:37:34

Look, no form of extractive

industry doesn't bring some

0:37:340:37:36

degree of risk with it,

whether its coal mining,

0:37:360:37:39

whatever it may be.

0:37:390:37:40

We've been fracking since the 1950s.

0:37:400:37:43

America's done more

of it than we've done.

0:37:430:37:45

Even we've done a bit

of fracking in this country.

0:37:450:37:47

What you have in this part

of England is the most phenomenal

0:37:470:37:51

reserves of natural gas.

0:37:510:37:55

Exploited carefully and sensibly it

would not leave great

0:37:550:37:59

scars on the landscape,

like coal mining did in many areas,

0:37:590:38:03

and it would revolutionise

the economy of the north-west

0:38:030:38:06

of England by providing tens

of thousands of well-paid jobs.

0:38:060:38:08

We must be mad...

0:38:080:38:11

BOOING

0:38:110:38:16

We must be mad to look

a gift horse in the mouth.

0:38:160:38:19

Mad.

0:38:190:38:20

So why is it so unpopular?

0:38:200:38:21

It's unpopular because people don't

like things in their back yard,

0:38:210:38:24

obviously, and because

the campaign's been

0:38:240:38:25

effective against it.

0:38:250:38:26

But it works.

0:38:260:38:28

There's an interesting parallel

between the will of the people vote.

0:38:280:38:33

The will of the people was correct

on one and not on the other.

0:38:330:38:37

Mr Farage, £39 billion

is a one-off line.

0:38:370:38:41

How many council houses can

you buy for £39 billion?

0:38:410:38:47

If people here want it, that's fine.

0:38:470:38:49

If they have a referendum

on it, they can decide.

0:38:490:38:51

That's fine.

0:38:510:38:52

All I'm saying is...

0:38:520:38:53

Well, why not?

0:38:530:38:54

Well, that shows you how we can

modernise our democracy

0:38:540:38:57

at local level, doesn't it?

0:38:570:38:58

Ken Clarke.

0:38:580:38:59

Well, an astonishing

event has taken place.

0:38:590:39:01

I entirely agree with Nigel Farage.

0:39:010:39:03

Don't make it a habit, Ken.

0:39:030:39:08

Nigel, the first time ever

we are in total agreement

0:39:080:39:12

and you got loudly booed

by the audience for

0:39:120:39:14

giving the answer.

0:39:140:39:15

So my boos were a little

more restrained.

0:39:150:39:17

Why are you in favour?

0:39:170:39:19

Well, we have had decades

of fracking, and all this

0:39:190:39:23

campaigning about all the dreadful

things that are supposed to happen,

0:39:230:39:27

your water will be poisoned,

you'll have earthquakes

0:39:270:39:29

and all the rest of it...

0:39:290:39:31

They did have earthquakes.

0:39:310:39:32

The tremor in Blackpool was not

detectable by a human

0:39:320:39:36

being on the surface.

0:39:360:39:38

It was a very low-level tremor.

0:39:380:39:40

All right, we'll check this.

0:39:400:39:44

It was described as an earthquake

by campaigners but it wasn't.

0:39:440:39:47

Let's just ask.

0:39:470:39:48

Did any of you feel the tremors?

0:39:480:39:50

Put your hands up if you did.

0:39:500:39:52

Well, the National Geological Survey

would be very surprised

0:39:520:39:54

by your sensitivity.

0:39:540:39:56

These are very sensitive people.

0:39:560:39:58

The person with the coloured

sleeve at the back.

0:39:580:40:00

Yes, you.

0:40:000:40:02

There is a lot of people peddling

mistruths and misinformation,

0:40:020:40:05

and Nigel is a perfect example

of how he obviously hasn't read up,

0:40:050:40:09

he doesn't know the facts,

and I'm absolutely amazed that

0:40:090:40:12

Ken Clarke doesn't either.

0:40:120:40:14

I would have really liked to have

thought that you could have stopped

0:40:140:40:17

and read your facts about fracking

coming to this area.

0:40:170:40:20

APPLAUSE

0:40:200:40:23

Why are you against fracking?

0:40:230:40:27

My main reason is a bit different

from the other locals,

0:40:270:40:29

because I disagree with fracking

because it's burning of fossil fuel,

0:40:290:40:32

and I'm so against that,

with the environment issues that

0:40:320:40:35

are pertinent at the moment.

0:40:350:40:38

What are we thinking,

digging up more fossil fuels?

0:40:380:40:42

But as well as that,

it's the local people.

0:40:420:40:44

And the question which was asked,

which you haven't really answered,

0:40:440:40:47

is what about the government

overturning the will

0:40:470:40:49

of local people?

0:40:490:40:50

APPLAUSE

0:40:500:40:54

There are many things that...

0:40:540:40:55

Of course we have a good

local planning system,

0:40:550:40:58

but in big things of national

importance the government must

0:40:580:41:01

have a role, particularly nowadays.

0:41:010:41:03

If Isombard Kingdom Brunel decided

he wanted to build a railway

0:41:030:41:07

line from London to Bristol today,

his advisers will tell him he'd be

0:41:070:41:12

mad going through the planning

system because there'd be vast

0:41:120:41:15

opposition all way along the line,

everybody would be opposed to it.

0:41:150:41:18

The government had

to let him do that.

0:41:180:41:21

It's called HS2.

0:41:210:41:23

It's called HS2.

0:41:230:41:23

Because they get fought by local

people, but somebody somewhere has

0:41:230:41:28

got to provide the route

for major infrastructure projects.

0:41:280:41:31

We do need runways at airports,

we do need to use our own

0:41:310:41:34

oil and gas reserves.

0:41:340:41:38

So what account do you

take of local opinion?

0:41:380:41:40

Anything, or none?

0:41:400:41:41

You take account of local opinion.

0:41:410:41:43

And then ignore it?

0:41:430:41:44

You don't ignore it,

but if in fact the national interest

0:41:440:41:47

outweighs that and if the local

opinion is just rejecting the advice

0:41:470:41:52

of, I already mentioned

the National Geological Survey,

0:41:520:41:54

the scientific world,

about whether there are risks

0:41:540:41:57

involved in fracking or not,

I think a government is entitled

0:41:570:42:00

to say in the national

interest we're going ahead.

0:42:000:42:03

Radzi.

0:42:030:42:04

I could not be more opposed to Ken

and Nigel, and thank you very much

0:42:040:42:08

at the back for raising that point

about the lack of fossil fuels.

0:42:080:42:11

We talk about well blowouts, we talk

about it is carbon intensive,

0:42:110:42:14

we talk about the fact that

it's water intensive.

0:42:140:42:16

But the bigger issue is that

if we are serious about protecting

0:42:160:42:19

this blue marble that we are on,

we need to move away

0:42:190:42:21

from fossil fuels and actually

embrace renewable energy.

0:42:210:42:23

In this area, there's a lot of wind.

0:42:230:42:25

Why don't we use it?

0:42:250:42:26

APPLAUSE

0:42:260:42:30

Hold on, it's Owen's turn.

0:42:300:42:32

The truth is Nigel

is completely wrong.

0:42:320:42:34

The benefits of fracking

are totally overblown.

0:42:340:42:36

The volume of jobs will be tiny.

0:42:360:42:42

The reserves that we have are much

less than America or France or some

0:42:420:42:45

of the other places where they have

shale gas to frack.

0:42:450:42:48

And in some of those places,

like France, they've

0:42:480:42:50

decided not to go after it.

0:42:500:42:52

Why did we have the Tories

overruling local people?

0:42:520:42:56

Because they decided, around

the time of getting elected in 2010,

0:42:560:42:59

that it was a good idea for them

to try and mimic the States,

0:42:590:43:03

where they could sell to people

as part of their election platform

0:43:030:43:06

that they were going to unveil this

great new Industrial Revolution

0:43:060:43:09

and it was going to produce jobs

and cheap, free energy,

0:43:090:43:11

practically, in this country.

0:43:110:43:13

All a load of rubbish.

0:43:130:43:14

The other thing they've lied

to people about is their suggestion

0:43:140:43:17

that local people and local

decisions will be given primacy.

0:43:170:43:20

That clearly hasn't happened here.

0:43:200:43:24

It should have happened,

and if it had happened we wouldn't

0:43:240:43:26

have the fracking in Blackpool.

0:43:260:43:28

It wouldn't happen under

a Labour government.

0:43:280:43:30

APPLAUSE

0:43:300:43:32

The person there.

0:43:320:43:40

I'd just like to say whatever

the jobs are or the economic

0:43:420:43:45

impacts, what Radzi said before

about the greenhouse

0:43:450:43:47

gases produced by this, it doesn't

matter what jobs you've got,

0:43:470:43:49

what money you've got when we're

all dead from global warming.

0:43:490:43:52

That is definitely the main point.

0:43:520:43:54

The German people have had

to shut down nuclear power plants

0:43:540:43:56

because they didn't like them,

despite the fact that greenhouse gas

0:43:560:43:59

wise it's completely clean.

0:43:590:44:00

And new coal-fired power

stations all over Germany.

0:44:000:44:03

And a quarter of the energy

we are using in Britain

0:44:030:44:06

today has come from wind,

so why haven't the Tories

0:44:060:44:08

invested in wind power?

0:44:080:44:16

Tonight more than ever emphasises

the fact of the reliance on gas.

0:44:320:44:35

Everyone in this room is going to go

home tonight and put their gas

0:44:350:44:38

central heating on.

0:44:380:44:39

A wind turbine is not

going to heat your house.

0:44:390:44:41

And it was a Labour Party, in 2008,

that actually got the ball rolling

0:44:410:44:45

on shale gas and issued

the exploratory drilling licences.

0:44:450:44:51

So you want to see it happen.

Will

be good for the local economy,

0:44:510:44:59

pumping in billions of pounds. This

is under British regulations, and

0:44:590:45:07

British Gas engineers, the best in

the world. We will do it right.

0:45:070:45:13

Brief point.

Would the decision have

beenover turned in the same way if

0:45:130:45:18

the fracking was taking place south

of Watford?

OK.

0:45:180:45:25

APPLAUSE

That's a good wonder. We will go on.

0:45:270:45:29

I don't know how much time we have

got. We will take another question

0:45:290:45:33

from Helen Wright. Pert nept to

everybody watching tonight?

Is the

0:45:330:45:38

beast from the east more like

hysteria from Siberia and should

0:45:380:45:43

bosses expect their staff to turn up

at work?

OK. What is Labour's view

0:45:430:45:49

on people turning up to work? There

are issues about whether you get

0:45:490:45:53

paid or holiday leave. What happens

if you can't get to work or are we

0:45:530:45:57

making a fuss about the snow?

I'm in

this fa of people turning up to

0:45:570:46:01

work. We do in this country make an

enormous fuss about the snow. We

0:46:010:46:04

have heard this evening a number of

people have died as a result of the

0:46:040:46:09

weather tonight today. I don't think

it's been completely overblown this

0:46:090:46:12

time. Some of the scenes in south

Wales, where I'm from, looked

0:46:120:46:17

treacherous this evening. Clearly,

some of the public services that

0:46:170:46:20

have been closed today, schools etc,

I think that is normally sensible.

0:46:200:46:24

Generally, I think we do tend to

make a bit too much of a bit of snow

0:46:240:46:29

and quite often people probably

could just about get into work. If

0:46:290:46:33

they tried a bit harder.

I'm a

believer in common sense. I think

0:46:330:46:38

that employers -

How do you know

what common sense is, I've never

0:46:380:46:43

understood the expression. What

everybody thinks, what you think or

0:46:430:46:48

when everybody agrees to you.

I

speak common sense. If you listen to

0:46:480:46:51

me. Anything I said, that's the

best.

0:46:510:46:54

APPLAUSE

That's what I thought you Meant.

0:46:540:46:56

Exactly. As an employer you need to

implement common sense. It makes no

0:46:560:47:01

sense if a job can be done remotely,

if a job is not essential to be done

0:47:010:47:05

that day, then you should be

applying common sense to your

0:47:050:47:10

employees. I think sometimes we do

go over the top too quickly. When we

0:47:100:47:15

got notifify case of the beast from

the east, we were already talking

0:47:150:47:20

about train cancellations and things

like that. At that point in time it

0:47:200:47:26

was a... I was doing personal

training and they were cancelling

0:47:260:47:30

trains. It wasn't that bad at the

beginning. Sometimes we don't need

0:47:300:47:33

to be so quick to cancel everything

and worry just apply your common

0:47:330:47:37

sense is my advice.

A serious point

I'm representing myself. I work for

0:47:370:47:43

a living. When I was a child my

money fundamentally brought me and

0:47:430:47:47

my sister up. One of the biggest

issues is when school gets cancelled

0:47:470:47:51

someone has to look after me. One

big consideration for me is that

0:47:510:47:54

whilst we could apply common sense,

we need to consider parents and who

0:47:540:47:58

will look after their children if

they are going to be home alone.

OK.

0:47:580:48:02

APPLAUSE

The woman there. Yes.

People are

0:48:020:48:04

saying that it's not a huge issue

and it's a little thing, it is a

0:48:040:48:08

huge issue for the lowest earners in

society who struggle to heat their

0:48:080:48:15

home and issue for the homeless and

the edderly. It's an insult.

If we

0:48:150:48:22

had cheap gas as opposed to wind

energy they might be able to heat

0:48:220:48:26

their homes. They were cancelling

trains before the snow fell. Closing

0:48:260:48:32

schools when there was no snow on

the ground but the threat it might

0:48:320:48:35

come and used by people as an excuse

not to go to work. Frankly, this

0:48:350:48:40

Storm Emma tonight could dump 18

inches of snow over parts of south

0:48:400:48:45

Wales and the south-west. Common

sense dictates the roads will be

0:48:450:48:49

closed. I think we should do our

best when it snows or it is windy,

0:48:490:48:53

rather than listen to this

hysterical nonsense. Red warnings

0:48:530:48:58

and amber warnings. It's all over

the top. We should be a bit more

0:48:580:49:02

stoic. A bit more British and jolly

well get on with life.

OK. Ken

0:49:020:49:06

Clarke.

We used to have a lot more

snow in winter I think. Not only my

0:49:060:49:12

recollection I think I accurately

recall. Events like today, not quite

0:49:120:49:16

so rare a few years ago. I do think

we are getting over excited. I was

0:49:160:49:22

on this programme, I was watching

television news to see what had

0:49:220:49:25

happened today, I gave up on the BBC

News Channel when their first

0:49:250:49:29

quarter of an hour of the programme

was devoted to snow in various parts

0:49:290:49:33

of the country. And I think there

are many people who feel themselves

0:49:330:49:41

under a moral obligation to get to

work in the snow or the emergency

0:49:410:49:45

services, people working in the

healthcare field and so on. I think

0:49:450:49:49

the ordinary person should feel an

obligation to get to work if it's

0:49:490:49:55

reasonably sensible to expect them

to do so. They shouldn't risk their

0:49:550:49:58

lives or anything of that kind.

We've all got here this evening. We

0:49:580:50:02

don't deserve medals for it. It was

snowing when I started my journey.

0:50:020:50:07

It wasn't the pleasant way to

travel.

You may not get home!

What

0:50:070:50:11

we should not start doing is closing

down public services because the

0:50:110:50:16

weather forecast is bad. We should

wait for the snow to arrive before

0:50:160:50:20

people start taking time off work.

A

couple of points. We will go on to

0:50:200:50:24

another question. You at the back.

Did the lady who called it hysteria

0:50:240:50:28

in Siberia was absolutely right. I

take the point in south Wales, in

0:50:280:50:32

Scotland, yes, snow is very bad

indeed. Here in the north-west not

0:50:320:50:35

at all. People in the local

supermarket buying up toilet paper

0:50:350:50:41

on Monday. Not one flake of

snowdroped.

We have all become snow

0:50:410:50:47

flakes. That's the problem, isn't

it!

Brexit has changed the political

0:50:470:50:53

atmosphere.

I love that toilet

paper. Not baked beans. Back to this

0:50:530:50:57

part of the world though and to the

whole, the problems of Blackpool and

0:50:570:51:01

the area around. A question from

deck can a Terrace.

How do we

0:51:010:51:08

encourage more investment in

Blackpool to ensure we keep young

0:51:080:51:11

people's talent and skills in their

hometown?

It should be said

0:51:110:51:15

Blackpool have problems. Problems

with mental health. Problems in the

0:51:150:51:18

NHS. It has an economy that has

fallen. The fourth most deprived

0:51:180:51:24

local authority on almost every

count. It's a part of the country

0:51:240:51:28

that's poorer than the parts around

it. Who would like to start on this?

0:51:280:51:32

Ken Clarke. You were a northern

powerhouse man. Or part of that

0:51:320:51:37

government.

Over the years there has

been regional policies.

How do you

0:51:370:51:43

encourage investment in in a place

like this

Places like this key

0:51:430:51:47

things we next neglected for too

long. Skills training, education,

0:51:470:51:52

standards achieving good standards

of education. More important in

0:51:520:51:56

areas which are having economic

difficulty than the prosperous areas

0:51:560:52:00

elsewhere. And how actually can the

Government relate to key sectors of

0:52:000:52:06

industry in a way that properly and

sensibly promotes their rapid

0:52:060:52:11

growth. We haven't really solved it.

I mean, the reason for the present

0:52:110:52:15

anger in politics is we have had,

until the financial crash came, the

0:52:150:52:21

greed of the bankers and regulators.

We had a good long time when we

0:52:210:52:25

thought we were getting richer and

better. Whole lots of people were

0:52:250:52:29

left behind and the economy was

changing. In some places the old

0:52:290:52:35

industries, steel and so on were

going. In Blackpool the old basis

0:52:350:52:38

for the economy was going. We have

to find a new one.

0:52:380:52:45

to find a new one. Industrial

strategies are a great thing. We see

0:52:450:52:47

lots of it now. We don't yet know,

to be honest, exactly how to go to a

0:52:470:52:54

town whose old economic base has

weakened and quickly be begin to

0:52:540:53:00

inject what is needed. Modern

employment is needed in Blackpool.

0:53:000:53:05

The task for government is how to

make sure to do that more quickly

0:53:050:53:08

than we have in recent years.

You

sir.

25 years ago, in Blackpool, we

0:53:080:53:16

had two world renowned manufacturing

companies. TVR cars, based north of

0:53:160:53:22

Blackpool.

0:53:220:53:29

Blackpool. Also a coaches company.

They were two of the largest

0:53:290:53:32

employers in this town.

They have

gone.

They have gone.

What is your

0:53:320:53:36

view about what should happen?

What

should happen. I think that the -

0:53:360:53:43

the government seaside -

Coastal

policy.

The coastal policy. We've

0:53:430:53:48

not heard very much apart from sea

defences.

You sir, quickly. We have

0:53:480:53:52

a few minutes.

We may have some of

the problems that Ken Clarke

0:53:520:53:56

outlined in Blackpool. We have got a

wonderful town and a place that

0:53:560:54:01

gives millions and millions of

people hours of fun. Millions of

0:54:010:54:06

people will still come back to

Blackpool in their droves.

Nigel

0:54:060:54:10

Farage.

Let's get back our waters

and the fish that swim in our seas.

0:54:100:54:17

That will benefit the north-west

considerably.

0:54:170:54:22

Secondly, you know, you should never

just tell an audience

0:54:220:54:24

what you think they want to hear,

tell them what you really think.

0:54:240:54:27

You're looking a gift

horse in the mouth with

0:54:270:54:31

the shale gas industry.

0:54:310:54:32

It will revolutionise

the economy of this area.

0:54:320:54:34

I'm sorry you don't like it.

0:54:340:54:36

Radzi Chanyanganya.

0:54:360:54:38

I come from Wolverhampton,

I think very similar problems

0:54:380:54:44

in Wolverhampton which happen

in Blackpool, and one

0:54:440:54:46

of the big ones in education.

0:54:460:54:50

I think if you don't educate people,

peole don't feel like

0:54:500:54:53

they have an opportunity to succeed.

0:54:530:54:54

I happen to think I have the best

mother on the planet.

0:54:540:54:57

She's instilled within me a belief

I can do anything I put my mind to.

0:54:570:55:01

Whatever we can do to give young

people that belief in themselves,

0:55:010:55:04

I think that's what will make

Blackpool prosper.

0:55:040:55:06

The woman here,

briefly if you would.

0:55:060:55:07

Hi, a major problem

in Blackpool is education.

0:55:070:55:12

10% in the country, our education,

our schools are failing.

0:55:120:55:17

How can we, when we are

all being academised,

0:55:170:55:20

work towards giving our children

a greater education?

0:55:200:55:24

OK, we are of course in an academy

here as it happens in Blackpool.

0:55:240:55:27

Yes, we are.

0:55:270:55:28

Michelle, what do you think?

0:55:280:55:29

First of all, I think Brexit

presents a great opportunity.

0:55:290:55:32

We're taking a lot of power back

from Brussels, hopefully.

0:55:320:55:40

I would like to see,

instead of all that power going

0:55:440:55:47

into London, I would like to see

proper devolution so that actual

0:55:470:55:50

northern place cans create

prosperity amongst themselves

0:55:500:55:57

I'm from Hull, I've had many,

many be a good girls

0:55:570:56:00

weekend out in Blackpool.

0:56:000:56:02

It was wonderful.

0:56:020:56:02

I've got wonderful memories.

0:56:020:56:03

Blackpool should be

in a position to prosper.

0:56:030:56:05

When we talk about education,

I feel very strongly about this.

0:56:050:56:11

I work with a group of technical

schools, called UTCs,

0:56:110:56:13

we join up with employers

with schools and we have

0:56:130:56:15

employer-led curriculums

and what we try to do is create

0:56:150:56:19

a workforce that's ready and right

for the local economy,

0:56:190:56:22

and also what you should be working

with young people as well

0:56:220:56:25

to stimulate entrepreneurialism.

0:56:250:56:28

Giving them that belief they can

create their own opportunity as well

0:56:280:56:31

where ever they live.

0:56:310:56:32

Owen Smith, I've to ask

you to be brief, I'm afraid.

0:56:320:56:35

Governments have to recognise it's

got a responsibility

0:56:350:56:37

to fix these problems.

0:56:370:56:42

Instead of cutting back public

services and cutting back

0:56:420:56:44

investment, we've got

to enausterity, which has completely

0:56:440:56:46

failed and invest once

more in our communities.

0:56:460:56:48

How would it help Blackpool?

0:56:480:56:50

We should have a regional

investment structure,

0:56:500:56:52

a banking structure that puts money,

government money, into areas,

0:56:520:56:55

like Blackpool, in areas like south

Wales, the ex-industrial areas

0:56:550:56:58

of this country.

0:56:580:56:59

Recognise the skills that

are here in manufacturing.

0:56:590:57:01

Capitalise on that with a real

active industrial strategy that

0:57:010:57:09

pushes jobs and incentivises

the public sector and private-sector

0:57:100:57:13

to invest and invest in skills.

0:57:130:57:14

Young people.

0:57:140:57:15

Don't cut back spending on schools

or cut back spending on university

0:57:150:57:18

education or cut back on support

for schools generally.

0:57:180:57:20

Invest in our young people.

0:57:200:57:22

That's the secret, and we've seen

the reverse of that from the Tories

0:57:220:57:25

under the last seven years.

0:57:250:57:26

We've got to get back

to investing in the people

0:57:260:57:29

in all of our communities.

0:57:290:57:30

APPLAUSE.

0:57:300:57:31

Our hour is up, I'm afraid.

0:57:310:57:33

Apologies to those

who have your hands up.

0:57:330:57:38

But our time is up, we have is stop.

0:57:380:57:40

We're going to be in Westminster

next Thursday with Question Time.

0:57:400:57:42

We have the International Trade

Secretary Liam Fox on the panel,

0:57:420:57:50

George the Poet and the Bake Off

judge Prue Leith on that panel.

0:57:500:57:53

The week after we're going to be

in the port of Dover and that's

0:57:530:57:56

a suitable place to be,

it marks one year to go

0:57:560:57:59

until the UK leaves the EU.

0:57:590:58:00

I don't know if we'll be

talking about the EU

0:58:000:58:03

again, but maybe we will.

0:58:030:58:04

Call 0330 123 99 88 if you would

like to come to either

0:58:040:58:07

of those two programmes.

0:58:070:58:08

On the screen is the address,

the website, if you want

0:58:080:58:11

to go to that instead.

0:58:110:58:12

And if you want to talk

about the things we've been

0:58:120:58:15

talking about tonight,

there's this excellent continuation

0:58:150:58:16

on Question Time Extra Time

with Adrian Chiles on 5 Live,

0:58:160:58:19

now on the radio.

0:58:190:58:20

You can also watch it

by pushing the Red Button.

0:58:200:58:22

You can watch it on the BBC iPlayer.

0:58:220:58:24

So I hope you'll be able to do that.

0:58:240:58:27

My thanks to this panel

and to all of you -

0:58:270:58:30

I was going to say who made it

through the snow, but there hasn't

0:58:300:58:34

been any snow in Blackpool.

0:58:340:58:35

But to all of you who came

here tonight to take part in this

0:58:350:58:38

edition of Question Time.

0:58:380:58:39

Until next Thursday, good night.

0:58:390:58:41

APPLAUSE

0:58:410:58:47

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS