23/06/2014 Scotland 2014

On the day we discover a radical jihadist left Aberdeen

to fight for ISIS, we ask - what would an independent Scotland's

BBC Scotland has revealed tonight that a third British man

in a recruitment video for the Islamic militant group,

We'll have the latest from our correspondent there.

An independent Scotland would have its own Foreign Minister, its own

seat at the UN, and would be free to operate its own foreign policy.

But would it be any different from the diplomatic strategy

And the man who has now been Trumped - twice.

Wisbech Anthony Baxter but finally getting to confront The Donald. --

we speak to. The BBC has learned tonight that

a British man pictured in a recruitment video

for the Islamic militant group ISIS The man has been named locally

as Raqib. In the video, he is seen wearing a

white turban with a Kalashnikov in his lap and he is heard preaching

the joys of jihad and urging other Read the Koran, you will find out

what is jihad. Our correspondent James Cook has

spent the day in Aberdeen. People here are shocked. They are

shocked to see someone who they knew and remembered as someone who

perhaps caused trouble but always, I was told, with his this is rather

than anything else, he was not any more violent than that. This man who

has been named locally as Raqib. But he was not regarded as a radical.

So, there is a sense here that people are shocked, they are shocked

at the video, when they see him walking in with the other fighters,

when they see them sitting down and talking about radical Islam, urging

people to take up arms and to fight for Allah. So, it has undoubtedly

been a shocking experience for people in Aberdeen and particularly

people in the Muslim community. They insist that they knew nothing about

this and they were surprised about it, they say he was last seen he --

your couple of years ago, they think he moved to Leicester, but they say

they do not know how or where he might have been radicalised. Is

there any reason why we should be particularly shocked that some of

years ago, they think he moved to Leicester, but they say they do not

know how or where he might have been radicalised. Is there any reason why

we should be particularly shocked that somebody than any other part of

the UK? I don't know. I suppose if there are young Muslim men who feel

angry in England, there may well be young Muslim men who feel angry in

Scotland or indeed, as we have seen, in Wales. So I think there is a

sense of shock, particularly here in Aberdeen, because it is such a

tight-knit community. In that sense, it might be more shocking, more

surprising, than in a big city like London. Red there, we asked Frank

Gardner how big a security risk this poses for Scotland and the UK. --

earlier. The longer it goes on, the bigger the threat will be. I think

the reason why politicians and police officials are sounding the

alarm, it is more an expectation that this is storing up trouble

historically. -- historically, people who have gone to fight for

jihad, roughly one in nine, when they have returned, have got

involved in domestic terrorism. So, if you extrapolate that if 500

buttons have gone to fight, there will be a fair number who may

possibly somewhere down the line be so violently minded, so

pathologically in Europe in the violence of what they have seen and

done out there, getting involved in kidnappings and beheadings, that

they will be a danger to society when they come back. But as we have

heard over the weekend, you cannot monitor everybody. They will have to

prioritise. Sooner or later, somebody will make a slip, they will

think, actually, we do not have time to monitor him. We will forget about

him. And that person is the one who is planning to do something. In

terms of Scotland, this is not your first brush with this kind of thing,

you had the attack on Glasgow airport, but these are a tiny

minority of people, embedded in a peaceful community. So, it is well

important not to demonise the rest of that community.

An independent Scotland would have almost 100 international embassies

Scottish politicians and diplomats would be free to pursue

policies quite separate from the priorities of the rest of the UK.

How would Scottish foreign policy differ from Britain's?

Our political correspondent Lucy Adams has been finding out.

To international symbols, two neighbours and soon, one big

decision that will that in Scotland's place in the world.

Outward facing, welcoming and an active participant on the world

stage, that is the SNP's vision Scotland, but what is the reality

for a small, new, independent nation? And are there areas where

Scotland, despite its size, can punch above its weight on the

International Arena between -- Arena? Scotland already spends ?9

million a year on foreign aid, even though international development is

reserved to Westminster. More than half goes to Malawi. The Scotland

Mullally partnership says it is not just about money. If you were to

draw up a list of major donors in Malawi, Scotland would be in the

bottom half of the top ten. But looking at the impact that Scotland,

the people of Scotland, can have in Malawi, it is far greater than that.

I believe there are things you can do, almost because you have less

money to put into it. If you can inspire civil society to be

involved, if you can build on those long-standing historical and

cultural links, if you have a position of genuine trust and

friendship with Malawi, there is a lot you can do. Wood-mac what about

climate change, area where Scotland sees itself as a world leader? The

interesting thing about climate change is that it knows no

boundaries. We need to work with other countries, irrespective, the

Scottish climate act was set and could be met with the powers

devolved to Scotland, but it required Scotland to work with the

UK and within Europe to meet those targets. Some of the ways we will

make them rely on others to act as well in unison. But will not change.

Irrespective of the outcome of the referendum. Academics assessing the

proposed foreign policy say it could bring rate of manoeuvrability but

greater vulnerability. There's something about small estates being

smarter states. If you think about international economy, a small

economy, the crisis comes up, it is a smaller boat in the sea, so you

can change direction and adapt to changing constraints and conditions

a little bit more. On the other hand, if there is a tidal wave

coming at you, the small states will get washed over more than a bigger

state or a big ship. Without the UK, some warn that Scotland faces

serious challenges internationally, in terms of resources, logistics and

kudos. As a new nation, experts say Scotland would have to forge new

alliances in order to exert influence abroad. Critics say

Scotland cannot afford the cost of diplomacy. Yes Scotland say the

reverse. I am going to see the diplomatic representative of a small

country with a GDP per capita similar to Scotland. Like most small

countries, Austria has no position on the Scottish referendum. I would

imagine Scotland would be very concerned to make sure that it got

the representation right and that it would not necessarily have consoles

in every country of the world, it would have representation in many

bases but I cannot recollect. Whether Scotland remains within the

UK or chooses independence, constraints remain. The biggest will

be the difference between what it wants to and can, in reality,

deliver. The SNP talks about a do no harm policy. So it's foreign policy

should do no harm to developing countries. That is a great principle

and letting principles matter a lot, but sometimes your economic

prosperity and your security may involve a trade-off. Those are the

hard choices that leaders have and that is kind of the art of

decision-making. Lucy Adams. I am joined by Humza Yousef, who is in

Edinburgh, and Anas Sarwar. Can I ask you first, we may be shocked

that this man known as Raqib lest -- left Aberdeen, where he grew up, to

go and fight for ISIS, should we be surprised that young men are leaving

Scotland to join the jihad? It is a huge surprise to have someone was

brought up on freedom and democracy, one of our own, leave you

to take part in a situation like that abroad, it brings immense hurt

to us in Scotland and also immense concern. We should be practising the

people -- the principles we live by. Humza Yousef, what was your reaction

to that? Echoing what Anas Sarwar said. Being in and out of mosques in

Scotland, I have never come across anyone who has had that kind of view

before. It was a huge shock. But the one thing I am certain of is that

incidents like this, the Scottish community has not demonised the

Muslim community at all. What they have done is pooled around them and

I am confident that will happen again. We will not use this as an

excuse for any misbehaviour. Let's move on and talk about the idea of

an independent Scotland's foreign policy and how it would be operated.

Looking at some of the biggest challenges around the world today,

in Iraq, Syria, Ukraine, how would an independent Scotland rose-mac

policy differ from the UK's current one? Where we agree with the UK

Government, instead of having one strong voice and opinion, there will

be two of them. So, in Iraq, I was on the phone today to a Foreign

Office, North Minister, there was not any difference in terms of how

you approach the situation. Instead of having one country, you would

have to countries making that contribution. Where we agree, there

would be a stronger voice, but we disagree on the Iraq war, and many

other situations. But we would have the chance to take a different path.

You have to go back to 2003 divine something you disagree with? Where

would you take a different line now? When I was Minister for axed --

external affairs, I wrote to William Hague as the Foreign Secretary and

suggested that when the vote for Palestinian statehood came up, the

UK should support it but the UK choose to abstain, which I thought

was wrong. So, there have been recent examples as well. IPod is

full, when you disagree, we could charter on power and have

Scotland's voice at the topple -- top of the table. Where we agree

with the UK, you get two voices that are stronger, than mostly just one.

Would anybody be listening to the voice of an independent Scotland? I

think he oversaw the opposite. At the moment, people listen to

Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland because together

collectively, we have a much stronger voice in the world. We are

a G20 country, we have a seat at the top table in NATO and the EU, in the

UN Security Council, something we we won't not have this column was

independent. And you talk about the challenges the world faces. Yes, we

face immense challenges around climate change, that does not

recognise borders. We face immense challenges around global poverty.

Through the UK partnership we are part of the most successful

partnership in the world. There is a budget of ?10 billion, that is

Scotland not just being part of the UK, it is Scotland leading the UK

and Scotland shipping the world, not showing away from it. That is the

role I want Scotland to play, not a smaller role, but to lead the world

and change the world like Scots have always done. It is tempting when you

look at some of the more intractable problems on the world stage to look

at going in with a clean slate. The UK Government said it was opening

its in the -- its embassy in Iran. Scotland could be in there as an

honest broker, dealing with countries without all the baggage

that comes with generations of UK foreign policy. Mata-mac you talk

about infrastructure, the more we share infrastructure, we share costs

and benefits of having international embassies and consulates across the

world. Why would we want to set up two separate ones? It would

startling costs to the UK. Let's not try and pretend that Scotland is the

victim of previous wrongs of the British Empire. Scotland was at the

heart of the British Empire. Let's not pretend we are part of a protest

vote. I opposed Iraq. I stood beside them protesting against Iraq. This

is not about the right or wrong decision ten years ago it is about

what is right for our children today and our children ten years ago. I

genuinely believe that Scotland having a bigger voice in the world

and not a diminished one, and we would be diminished, as would wheels

and Northern Ireland, Scotland chose to walk away. Both of you say that

you disagreed with the decision to invade Iraq but there will be

occasions when Titans and spectators must be challenged. The cause of

what they are doing and in their own countries and over their borders. An

independent Scotland could not stand up to them as effectively as the UK

can. That is incorrect. You operate under the security under a lot of

little or the UN. I take a exception to what was said. He uses the words

as being too small. I do not think Scotland is too small. Where the

over simplify the matter is that he says Scotland has a voice at the top

table. Scotland does not. In my over one year and a half in being the

Minister for external affairs never once has the UK Government called me

to ask what the people want. The reality as... I did not interrupt

you so allow me to finish. Malcom Exocet been at the top table does

not make you a diner, eating the food does. Adding your own voice, we

would be a peaceful contribution. We agree with Yuki having a strong

voice and being a global player for peace and you are correct in

pointing out UK foreign policy over several years and it has been a

foreign policy that has been accused of double standards. 20 years ago we

were training people and giving them weapons in Afghanistan. Scotland

could be in a position to not be loaded with this baggage.

Film maker Anthony Baxter has spent years in pursuit

of the controversial American billionaire Donald Trump.

His first film about The Donald got him arrested before it won him

Now, his sequel, A Dangerous Game, is about to premiere at the

Edinburgh Film Festival tomorrow night and this time he has finally

Here he is taking on the international businessman

She made legal threat against the BBC when they showed the film and

you said it was defamatory. It was. The tone was so one-sided and one

reason I agreed to do the interview was that no one was available to

speak up for our side. You never ask anyone from our side. Kill Matthew

never let us speak to you. The police obviously had a good reason

to do what they do. You have used your own private security force. No

one from our side was asked for an opinion or give an opinion. I am

sure it would not have been put in any way. I am sure that my answers

will be cut short and highly inaccurate which is why I have the

camera watching us. Anthony Baxter is with us now. You finally got to

confront him after years of trying. How was it? It was important to be

able to put to Mr Trump the questions I have been denied the

opportunity to put to him. Questions local residents wanted to ask, they

have spent years being the lead and harassed by his organisation. This

was an opportunity to do that. It was disappointing making the film,

we ask for an interview with Alexander as well and that was the

night. It is important that we have these opportunities to put people in

power, the rich and powerful and our politicians to hold them to account

for decisions that have been very questionable. Double strong

challenges you and says that your film making is one-sided. I

understand it is a polemic but it does not represent the point of view

of people who support what the is doing and the jobs that he has

created would be to this and he has brought in. Is the correct in saying

you are only taking one side of the our timid? Mr Trump promised 6000

jobs. That was in my bod by the Scottish Government. In reality

fewer than 200 jobs were created. It is very questionable, the amount of

economic prosperity that has been brought to an area that has less

than 1% of employment. We did work very hard to beat the other side of

the story in the film and we did in the first film, but it is very

difficult when the Scottish Government will not give you an

interview. The Trump organisation did not do an interview. Here they

finally did it. Has he seen the film? The accused you there, saying

he did not think he would cut your interview fairly. He has not seen it

as far as I know but as you saw the happy camera on the whole interview

so he will no doubt but that online when the film comes out. Of course

we will not run the whole interview of Mr Trump so we have to edit. He

has announced that he will not build the second golf course. Is that the

victory? The local people think it is a victory. Let's remember what

was promised and what was delivered. The economic prosperity that was

promised has not been delivered. He has essentially walked away from

that development, he has recently announced since we finished the film

that he is promising a ?100 million investment there but that figure has

not been scrutinised by the journalists covering the story. It

is time these kinds of numbers are questioned. Thank you very much.

Let's hope that the next thing he is here that The Donald will come for

an interview. France 24 reports a cease-fire in

Eastern Ukrainian regions until Friday following Cox. On the BBC

website the US Secretary of State John Kerry Ross is intense but

sustained support for Iraq. And al-Jazeera's top story is that

they're journalists have been sentenced to seven and ten years in

jail by an Egyptian court on charges of aiding the Muslim brotherhood and

reporting false news. With me now are Ewan Aitken,

former Labour leader of Edinburgh City Council and now CEO of

the Syrenians charity and Natalie Let's start with the Al Jazeera

story. Al-Jazeera said the news by tweets themselves saying that

journalism was under fire. Is this an important moment? It is crucial.

The lifeblood of any democracy is the scrutiny of journalists and we

have just seen an example of that in your previous section and it is very

important that we make sure it is not only journalists fighting this

campaign but all of us. And not just about what happens in injured but

the world. The BBC treated a response saying that they regretted,

devastated, dumbfounded and shattered. We care about this a lot

because we know these people. We have worked with them and we can

imagine being in their circumstances. Is this a media

obsession or is it great that it matters when journalists are treated

this way? It is not the media. It is the fact that democracy is under

fire from the actions of the courts in Egypt. We must be very concerned

about the distance between the judiciary and also the parliament

and what is going on in the gym. Obviously the key to a democracy is

being able to criticise and broadcast around the world what is

happening in their own country. If that is not happening then we must

be very concerned. You must be concern about the role that the West

is playing in situations like this, we just found out in the last few

days that America has almost restored normal international

relations with Egypt's even aware of this trial has been ongoing. We are

concerned that they are again rearming what was once a

democratically elected government but which is showing itself to be

using the same types of oppression in the media that has gone before.

We must be concerned about the role that Western governments are taking

and how they react to the situation. We must take a strong line and

encourage the diplomatic restructuring. We will continue to

die attention to us. The BBC intends to have one-minute silence and

tomorrow. We hear a lot of protests from media organisations but less

from the British government. The British and American governments

must look at how they handle it. John Kerry announced have $1 billion

in military aid. There is about ?50 million worth of militarily

economics going on between Britain and Egypt's and we must challenge

that. We must change the way in which we make our eight, pushed

change. Particularly around developing civic democracy.

Let's move on the topic here, there will be a debate between Alex

Salmond and Alistair Darling. Salmond had an STV debates

disappointingly with Alistair Darling on Scottish independence.

This will be a great moment. Who will win? We must stop talking about

the debate, although it is balanced of the BBC to advertise the STV

debates, because the real debates have been happening not between

individuals in a TV experience but right across the country. I chaired

by yesterday. That was really good because he got to the nitty-gritty

about what people were concerned about and I have seen them across

the country. That is the positive thing that has come out of this.

That is what we should celebrate as opposed to who will win one

conversation between two particular figures. It will be a big moment.

The Telegraph said that Alex Salmond is the firm favourite with Ladbrokes

odds of 1-2 on Salmond and 6-4 on Alistair Darling. I am disappointed

that there is a debate between two men at the top of their game because

reading the yes part for the SNP has been Nicola Sturgeon has been

excellent. I would have liked to have seen her go head-to-head with

someone. In terms of Alistair Darling I think that better together

have overplayed it, they did not believe that Alex Salmond would so

to speak for himself to debate someone with no legislative power. I

think the SNP have been clever about this. Darling is damaged by his own

party at the moment, Gordon Brown has undermined some of his

proposals. And within better together the Conservatives have

kicked contemn as well. At this point in time it could be a clever

move by the SNP to clear the deck and take out Alistair Darling in a

debate. Takeout Alistair. That then read the situation where they can

go, what is the next debate and can be Prime Minister avoids doing that?

How will echo what UN has said and that's the big thing has been the

democratisation of society. The yes camp has been very open to meetings

right across Scotland and there have been many debates which have been

some of the most enthusiastic that I have seen in the past two years.

Could it be a turning point? I don't. The turning points will be in

the individual conversations with people who say you think this and I

think that. We cannot build a nation on a conversation between two

high-profile figures we must build on building communities and building

conversations at a local level. That will make the difference.

I'll be back at the same time tomorrow night.

In the meantime, you can keep an eye on all the latest developments

online with BBC Scotland, including our new live page which gives you

When Barbara and I started the Review,

we were seeking to examine the workings

and the truthfulness of establishments.

Albatross? There it is. The albatross.

The albatross is going to need a hair-styling.