24/06/2014 Scotland 2014

What's free if you are Scottish, French or Dutch

but could cost you thousands if you live in England or Wales?

And what will happen to university tuition fees

A free higher education is a cherished ideal for many Scots.

But would it continue in an independent Scotland?

How could we carry on charging fees to students

from England, Wales and Northern Ireland whilst we invite students

from France, Germany and the rest of the EU to study free of charge?

I will be asking the Education Secretary Mike Russell why the EU

would allow the current situation to continue In the third part of her

triathlon across the Western Isles, Laura Bicker runs across the Isle of

Skye to investigate the future for one of Scotland's biggest

A free higher education is a cherished ideal for many Scots but

could it continue in an independent Scotland? How could we carry on

charging fees to students from England Wales and Northern Ireland

while we invite students from France, Germany and the rest of the

EU to study free of charge. I will be asking the Education Secretary

Mike Russell by the EU would allow the current situation to continue.

Also tonight... Laura Bicker runs across the aisle of Skype to

investigate the future for one of Scotland's against industries. And

it was 20 years ago production began on Braveheart. The Mel Gibson film

premiered in Stirling in 1995 and went on, rightly or wrongly, to

become the version of Scottish history many will rely on. I speak

to Brian Cox about how the film he starred in has affected Scottish

politics ever since. It is one of the odder aspects of our university

system. If you live in Belshill, no tuition fees. In Berlin, it is free.

If you live in Belgravia, a Scottish university education will cost you

?9,000 every year. The Scottish Government is proud of its record in

delivering free education for students here. What will happen in

an independent Scotland? This is what it is all about. Graduating

with a degree. But at what price? Free education tuition is a point of

principle for the SNP. Under European law it is possible to give

Scottish students a free tuition at two charge of the students from the

UK. It is possible to discriminate against students from one member

state but not against those from another. In 29 ten, before the

introduction of these, nearly 6000 students from the rest of the UK

went to Scottish universities. That number fell as the introduction of

fees approached in 20 12. At last year there was a slight recovery,

and the number rose to almost five thousand. That compares to almost

30,000 Scottish -based students accepted in the same year. Edinburgh

University released new research and blip. What impact Independent would

have on the picture. Key to that was it the European Union would allow

the Scottish Government to keep charging these two students from the

remaining parts of the UK. It would be hard to find many people from the

Scottish higher education system to say it would be possible to carry on

charging. Scottish universities want certainty over their funding for the

future. They do not like changes. Our UK students are already bringing

in quite a lot of money into the system through their fees. Opponents

of independence for quick to seize on the findings. It demonstrates

there is a black hole at the centre of the University funding plan. It

needs to demonstrate how that would come up with ?120 million and

possibly more, that has been missing from budgets. If the Scottish

Government is celebrating a victory in September, will be a Scottish

universities be happy? Just before we came on air, I caught

up with Mike Russell. I asked him to explain what he of the special

circumstances where that would enable an independent Scotland to

continue to charge fees to students from the rest of the UK. Our present

policy, we were told again and again, has never been successfully

challenged. There are a number of special circumstances. We share our

border with a country that has the highest bees in Europe and it may go

higher. There is likely to be an influx of students and we see that

from recent figures. They will go across to cheaper areas. There is a

real and present danger to the economy if we did not protect these

places. We presently have 14,500 students from the rest of the UK and

they are very welcome. If that number were to rise by even 1% --

buy as much as 10%, we would exclude Scottish undergraduates. We would

also undermine our own economy. About 18% of those students from

Scotland to go to Scottish universities, actually stay here to

work. The number who stay from the rest of the United Kingdom is around

30%. Very quickly we would lose a skilled generation. That would be

intolerable. There are strong reasons, and they are not just

reasons for the Scottish Government, independent legal advice has pointed

this out as well. This is a policy that we proceed and we will continue

to proceed. If the rest of the UK, which I think is perceiving an

ill-advised policy, if we were to abandon that policy, I would be

happy to go back to the policy that once existed. You do not seem to

have convinced the Scottish universities. They said the

government must lay out its reasoning clearly. They do not seem

to have any confidence in it. I do not think that is correct.

Independent legal advice I quoted came from advice sought by the

universities in Scotland. In addition, universities know how well

funded the situation is in Scotland. I know they look south of the border

with horror at what is taking place. The Scottish Parliament does not

pass laws that are not compatible with European law, it simply cannot

do so. There is a firm proposal. It is already operating and operating

legally. You tell us that the policy as it exists has never been

challenged in the courts. The truth is it would be a completely

different situation. An independent country would be seen to be

discriminating against students from another member state. That is why

students from across the UK -- did you are not charged fees in Scottish

universities. It sees -- seems plain that students in the UK must have

free fees as well. You'll mac unless there is justification and that is

quite clearly understood in European law. I would love to be in a

position where we can say we will go back to the system we once operated

on. But when you go back to a system that is charging the highest bees in

Europe, and these fees may well go up, -- highest fees. You need to

make sure that Scottish students can come to local universities. We must

have a fairer system. We have a great mix of students. These things

are what we do now, these things work and these are the policies we

will proceed. I have heard so often that these policies will be

challenged. It is based upon domicile and not nationality and not

race. It is a practical approach. It is what people want to continue and

my job is to make sure that is the case. If there is a yes vote in

September, the only way this will be settled this in court. We are

entirely confident that this conforms to European law. This is

the system that will work for us and we have a good case and we will

argue that case. We have intoned before that we will be challenged

and this is a constant threat on behalf of those who want done to

rise tire education. -- want monitor iced higher education. The debt that

students have is three times as high south of the border as it is in

Scotland. I do not want that system and I do not think Scottish students

or Scottish families want bad. We will continue with the successful

policy that we have. Thank you. The Education Secretary talking to

me earlier. The billboard shout if not now, then fine, but they are not

talking about the referendum. It is an advert for Visit Scotland.

Tourism is a multi-billion pound industry employing over ?200,000

people, but what effect would independence have? We continue with

Laura Bicker's triathlon series. I am now going on the waves. My legs

are getting a rest and I take a ferry to the island. I am going to

the island of Skype. These passengers have come from all over.

This tourist trade is with ?11 billion to Scotland. Some fear that

independence will take the industry of course. There are concerns over

borders and currency. If you years ago I too would in Europe. -- I went

around Europe. I think it will make of exclusive. People will see it as

being branded better. I think it might put some people off. People

are divided. It is time to get moving. I am going to find out what

people on the island think. Unfortunately the weather takes a

turn for the worse. This man is used to these conditions. He has just run

the length of the island, 125 miles all in all. Tourism is very

important for people here. The majority of April are employed here.

It makes up a huge part of the economy. -- majority of the bulb. I

work in the Hebrides. You know all of the island. Yes, I do. I find

someone who is trying to bring more visitors to the island. I am Scott.

Welcome. I will show you around. This man is building a new business.

He is creating a glamorous camping site. He wants people to come to

stay, not just for the day, and that is why he is voting yes in the

referendum. Scotland has an amazing brand. Governing itself, eating its

own country, not having to follow the same rules as the rest of the

UK, it would elevate that round. -- being its own country. I ran through

these pretty streets trying to find someone who would this agree with

him but most people told me they felt independence would benefit

tourism. They thought a cut in Air Passenger Duty would make it easier

getting here. I know this view is not typical. The scenery and

wildlife tours may be stunning, but Scotland still only gets one eighth

of the overseas visitors to travel to London. At this new gallery and

tearoom of the beaten track I find one couple willing to do to tail me

why they are going to vote no. With a good to have some of the local

things. It is possible to do that within the bounds of the United

Kingdom. Absolutely. Even a federal United Kingdom. Do you think we are

doing enough with the powers that be have? It is early days. The Scottish

Parliament has not been here that long and it needs to develop. As I

run through the rain and villages, you can see the of selling this

island. Some feel independence is a step too far. It is an extra risky

hurdle. Others feel it will make the brand that much stronger. The one

constant with this island and Scotland is that it is, and always

will be, usable, in whatever political climate that we choose.

Laura Bicker there. Here in the studio are too gentle man steeped in

the Scottish tourism industry. Andrew Fairlie is a chef and Ray

Lorimer is the chairman of the Institute of is it all at it. I give

both for coming in. People talk about the brand of Scotland and how

that would change, but it is an identifiable brand already. Andrew

Fairlie, how would it be different? You are absolutely right. The brand

is hugely successful. It is hugely recognisable. I think Scotland, or

the rebirth of Scotland, is one of Europe's oldest nation states, I

think that will attract a lot of attention to Scotland. I think the

world die Hasbro for local people, I think that would take a huge

interest and I think it will attract new visitors to Scotland. I cannot

see a downside to independence. Ray Lorimer, your members, what did they

tell you they want to see we have conducted surveys. The general

feeling is that for the particular group, that was against, but that

was a snapshot. In real terms, it was a small sample of the wider

population. The very clearly were uncertain and that is the biggest

issue. We would get on with it. There would

be uncertainty prior and afterwards. I think life would go on. Scotland

is a great brand and it always will be. It's just some people disagree

with the move forward. Most of it as you come to Scotland come through

London first. They visit there, maybe travel through direct the UK

before they get to Scotland. Might they get put off by the idea if they

thought that Scotland was a separate country, if they thought there might

be some difficulty to get there. Is it the unity of the UK that makes it

easy for tourist to get around? On the contrary, I think that with the

tax system, the duty. That is a tax that is designed specifically for

London. In 2007, it doubled. The fares have gone up anywhere between

160% to 360%. That is the tax designed to London because London is

at capacity. Airlines and airport chiefs are saying that that needs to

change and the only way we are going to attract more visitors to Scotland

is to reduce that air passenger duty. The Scottish Government have

pledged already that they will reduce the duty immediately by 50%.

When public finances allow they will abolish it or together. Thank you

for coming to talk to us. Now arguably little has done more to

raise Scotland's international film At a red carpet bash in Edinburgh,

to celebrate the re-release of Braveheart on DVD,

I caught up with the film?s star, Brian Cox, and began by asking him

why he thought the film had such I think we had come through,

Scotland had come through a particular bad time with the poll

tax in light of what had happened. The industrialisation of Scotland.

Scotland 's face was robbed a little bit in the mud. People will not

feeling at their best at the beginning of the 1990s. They were

feeling a bit hard done by. Of course, you never know that because

the Scots are not one to complain. They are great at long-suffering,

they have almost developing naphtha long-suffering. I think the film

released something. Then, the global significance of the film, Oscar

Wilde, -- rock Oscar Wise, it got stronger. The film coming out at the

time and contributing towards the Scottish psyche, did it contribute

to where we are now with the referendum? Yes, I think it did. In

those days, I worse in the opposite persuasion. I was very much a no

then. Looking at my own history, going back 60 years and seeing how I

grew up in Dundee and what happened. Health Scotland -- how Scotland has

progressed, wanting to be its own country, I did think it's a bad

thing, I think it's a very good thing. I think that Braveheart

certainly contributed, not necessarily to me, I come from a

different route, but I think it contributed to a lot of people. It

appeals to the heart. People are always going on about the struggle

between the heart and the head. We have to think like this, we have to

be canny, we operate good at that. We can tie ourselves up in knots.

There is an act of faith in striving towards something. And in seeking

independence. There has to be an enormous act of faith in that. There

are no guarantees. There are people in the SNP and in the independence

campaign who feel quite uncomfortable with what is called

Braveheart nationalism, the feeling that it is anti-English. Pat Kane

said, if and when it comes, it will be a question of law and economic.

The last thing we needed the stench of Gibson 's xenophobic feelings in

our nostrils. I think that is true. It is an allegory, it's not real. It

is a piece of art, a creation. Mel certainly didn't intend it to

quantify. He saw people that were oppressed. At that time people were

very impressed. The story will always be how the head-bangers

associate with it. I don't think that's a very good story. That

doesn't give the yes vote any favours. It's like the recent staff,

with JK Rowling which I disapprove of. I am totally against that. That

is not the way to behave. You suggest that you might come back and

live in an independent Scotland. I would. If they could do something

about the dam and the arthritis. If they could fix the weather in an

independent Scotland you would be back? That's right! Fife is one of

my dreams. It's gotten vote no, you won't be coming back? No, I will

still be coming back. If Scotland vote no, life will go on. We will

get what we will get. A fact. I hope we do become independent. I do think

it's going to be what everyone thinks it will be. It's not about

them and arson. It's not about being exclusive to something, it's about

being inclusive. Saying we can do it on our own two feet. I am not at the

behest of anyone else. That was Brian Cox.

This evening, to chat through some of the top stories of the day,

I'm joined by the editor of the Scotland?s newest news magazine,

And the Editor of The Big Issue, Paul McNamee.

Let the others you both about Braveheart. It was interesting,

Brian Cox saying that it had meant to but it had had a significant

impact on the politics of Scotland over the last 20 years. Do you think

that is true? Would I remember, not having lived in Scotland at the time

it came out, and not being Scottish, is how Mel Gibson spoke

how they look of Scots spoke. I was terribly disappointed to find that

he didn't really speak like that. I am not sure if it had a huge impact

on the politics of Scotland, but it certainly has had an impact on how

people outside of Scotland view the politics of Scotland. I think it

hasn't done any harm at all to people liking the Scots, the plucky

Scots. Steve, do you think it is a political event when Braveheart came

out? I don't think so. But you didn't roar at the cry of the dome

-- freedom or cheer when the Scots border backside at the English. It

certainly set a marker. Five times weather has been enduring political

sentiments. It is highly appropriate that the 20th anniversary of the

movie is now. They should bring it back. I am particularly pleased to

see that Brian Cox is going to get some sunshine in Fife in an

independent Scotland. That is something we can or cheer about. The

big news of the day is a result of the hacking trial at the Old Bailey.

Andy Coulson guilty of phone hacking, Rebekah Brooks ponds the

micro not guilty. Were you surprised when you heard the news? I think the

news broke in the newsroom in the middle of the day. It was a

surprise. These things suddenly come very quickly, having followed the

case for a very long time. Lots of money spent, lots of words said.

When the verdict came through, one guilty, the rest not guilty, I think

there was some surprise at that. That made it even more of a story.

What was the reaction in your newsroom? In our small magazine

office, I think there was a lot of focus on the tennis at the time.

This broke that kind of revelry and had people rating to twitter to

follow anybody that they could to see what was happening. The real

significance could be the David Cameron. After he left the News of

the World, Andy Coulson was employed as Cameron's press spokesman. Today

Cameron apologised for having employed him but said that he had

asked about it and Coulson had said he had nothing to do with phone

hacking. Is that apology enough? Tamara's papers will be full of what

a humiliation this is the David Cameron. Is it going to do any damp

could damage? When you bring someone in to the government to act as you

bring someone in to the government to act as your and I don't think

that even Andy Coulson himself could have spun David Cameron out of this

one. He has made an apology, it may not be enough as we have seen for

some people. I don't really know what more he can do. He got wrong,

he got it badly wrong, he asked the questions that needed to be asked,

he says. He got the answers that reassured him and then he was let

down by someone, at that time whom he considered to be a friend. He was

badly let down and he has apologised. Yes he is going to get

pelted the next few days and certainly a hard time when he next

comes to Parliament. The Labour Party have been tweeting that he

brought eight the middle into the heart of Downing Street quoting Ed

Miliband. This will make labour David Cameron

as uncomfortable as you can. They need to be careful showing too much

judgement because at the heart of this was the phone hacking of Millie

Dowler, which really collapsed the whole house of cards that led to the

closing of a newspaper. Still, at heart, it was a missing girl, a

murdered girl 's phone who was hacked. And that was a terrible

thing to happen. To push too hard in a political correction might start

to move back on that. You can understand why the Labour Party are

angry about it. What happened during because the trial was that many

Cabinet ministers realised they were being targeted by the News of the

World. One key bit of evidence was that he was hacking David

Blunkett's mistresses. We have heard recordings of that today. They wed

after other Cabinet ministers as well. It is inevitable that they

will be a little gleeful about this. That's true. But they weren't just

going after Labour politicians. One of the most unpleasant things is

that the people they would after were, not that I'm going to have a

go at Calum Best, but when you are hacking people like Calum Best, you

are thinking what is going on in journalism? Now the hacking trial is

over and we have had delivers an enquiry, has it changed to

journalism? Everything that we learned about the News of the World?

I think it has. This practice is not widespread, and it has always been

illegal to do most of these acts. This is something people should

remember and I am sure they know the stop we have seen today, somebody

brought to justice about this. They do very much. That is that from us

tonight, do join is at the same time tomorrow.

Hello, Glastonbury! CHEERING

HE LAUGHS What's happening?

Hello, Glastonbury. How you doing, Glastonbury?