09/09/2014 Scotland 2014

That seems to be the message down south as all three UK party leaders

But they are not panicking, you understand,

The no campaign are trying harder than ever to look like they really

are Better Together, to persuade the voters they can work together

to come up with a joint plan to deliver more powers to the Scottish

Three Scottish party leaders were out and about, very much together,

insisting more devolution will follow a no vote.

A saltire was raised over 10 Downing St as David Cameron

announced he will be coming to Scotland along with Ed Miliband and

Nick Clegg to sell the same message of togetherness, even if they won't

And Jim Sillars gives us his personal view

of why he thinks working people will be better off voting yes.

Not much time for the no campaign to persuade Scotland that they

really will deliver substantial new powers in the event of a no vote.

And not much time for the unionist parties to agree exactly what those

powers will be, if it's all to be sorted out by the end of November.

No wonder they're all in a bit of a hurry.

Tomorrow, David Cameron, Ed Milliband and Nick Clegg are all

rushing up to Scotland to sell the new timetable for more devolutuion.

Neither the Prime Minister, his deputy nor the leader of the

opposition will attend prime ministers questions tomorrow. They

will be too busy campaigning to save the union. Tomorrow, the right place

is to be in Scotland, listening to people, talking to people. They will

join Scottish colleagues today beginning but maybe a steep

challenge to win over the voters with promised new powers if Scotland

votes now. But have we not been here before? The Calman Commission and

strengthens devolution lead to new powers, but the process took years.

The commission reported in 2009, but it was another three years before

legislation became law and the new powers do not come into force until

2016. So, this time, could unionist parties convince voters they will

deliver more devolution and do so in the time frame set out? They have

agreed to discuss things later, after the referendum. Gordon Brown

gave a timetable involving St Andrews Day and Burns night.

Pittodrie list? Of course, what will be achieved, that is another

question entirely. Alex Salmond was surprisingly unimpressed. There is

nothing new in this package at all. This is repackaging, a new timetable

of what was said in the spring. Many questioned why Devo Max wasn't on

the ballot paper? Unionist parties are now saying that a no vote is in

effect that option. If it really is the best of both worlds, why wasn't

the choice there to begin with? If you wish to maximise the chance that

Scotland didn't vote for independence, then you would have

put Devo Max on the ballot paper. The truth is, both sides on this

referendum agreed to play poker. If you play poker, sometimes you lose.

So, have the unionist parties played their hand to late?

Earlier I talked to our Political Editor Brian Taylor

in Edinburgh and I asked him about the dramatic developments

A remarkable day today on the campaign Trail, a prediction of

unity from both sides. There is the offer from the three Westminster

leaders, they are coming to Scotland tomorrow to campaign for the idea of

Scotland staying in the union, but a reformed union, putting forward that

accelerated timetable to offer a new power to Scotland. We have from the

other side, and image that Scotland can unite around the concept of

independence and advance the prospects that way. Tonight, also, a

remarkable intervention from the palace. There has been speculation

about if the Queen would intervene at some point? The link address --

the had been suggestions that pressure was put on the palace for

her to intervene. Those suggestions are categorically wrong and the

Queen regarded as a matter for Scotland's people. Mark Carne,

according to the Bank of England, currency is back on the table? Yes,

the main thrust has been to argue about the enhanced offer of new

powers. To Scotland it has been batted back and forward. Rivals say

it is insufficient. But currency is back. Governor Mark Carney making a

suggestion in a speech that he was making that the idea of a currency

union, as suggested by the Scottish government, and the advocates of

independence, they say it is incompatible with sovereignty. Danny

Alexander translates that as being incompatible with independence. He

says the Governor is ruling out the prospect of an independent Scotland

in a currency union. The Financial Secretary in Scotland, John Swinney,

response to that by saying that there would be an element of pooling

of sovereignty in the independence plan, as put forward by the SNP and

others and he says that for example, France and Germany have a shared

currency and otherwise pooling sovereignty to that extent, but they

are to be regarded as independent nations with full control over

fiscal powers and tax and spending. Thank you.

I'm joined by a trio of players who were all involved

the last time the prounion parties got together to try and agree new

We have Annabel Goldie, we have Michael Marra, and we have Tavish

Scott. Thank you for coming to join us. Can you take us back to when you

all got together to decide that you needed more powers for the Scottish

parliament and you would have to hammer out an agreement between

you? Annabel Goldie, how difficult was it to get agreement from those

parties? It wasn't, but we were in a different place then than we are

now, and I was struck by the introduction about the timescale and

how this can be done. When the Calman Commission was formed, it was

formed with consensus, three party said, let's get this commission

formed and look at devolution and recommendations. At that stage,

three parties had clean slates in relation to devolution. The big

difference between then and now is that all three parties have laid out

very different significance proposals about how this should go

forward, so in a sense, the bits of the jigsaw or on the table and it is

really, what will happen, assuming that we get a no vote on the 18th?

That would be the starting gun for the 19th of September for the

process to begin. You started, Michael, in 2007, there was the

Calman Commission, legislation and the House of Commons, finally passed

in 2012 to be acted in 2016, it wasn't quick. No, but there are

already packages on the table. There is a significant difference between

the mood of the politicians because to be fair, Annabel and her party

and Wendy Alexander, in my party in the Labour Party, they struck out to

a certain extent and had to bring some politicians with them.

Tablet's party were in a different position, but there will now be and

there is a clear consensus that these changes, these extra powers

have to come. -- Tavish Scott's party. The packages there, we need

the consultation period and that is incredibly important. The people of

Scotland are clearly ready for it. They had to do have use of this

conversation and I think we can deliver a substantial package with

the backing of the population. The most important thing is to build a

consensus for Scotland. Scotland badly needs that. Tavish Scott, in

the years he spent getting ready for this the last time, you laid out a

new package of measures, but the three parties did not come to an

agreed plan, you had different positions, would this be possible to

have one consolidated position? Yes, the timescale and the urgency to

show a shared commitment to reforming Scotland. It is also part

of healing Scotland after this divisive period that we have had

that is not just lasted a couple of weeks, but the thick end of two

years. There is a strong urgency and I hope that sensible people in the

SNP will come together after a no vote next Thursday and agree how to

take this forward to agree on what we're trying to achieve. But to do

it in a sensible, constructive way that brings people together after

this difficult period for families, communities, individuals have been

split by these campaigns. It is time to bring us together and I hope this

process could be exactly that. This is an impressive model of mature,

agreeable discussion among three Scottish politicians. Annabel

Goldie, do the politicians in Westminster get it? Will David

Cameron sign a series of things he probably hasn't thought much about

before? The Prime Minister not only entirely approved of the setup of

the Strathclyde committee, which is the vehicle at looking at devolution

and are coming up with the proposals, and I think that he felt

that was a very innovative move by the Scottish Conservative sentry

lusted was an important contribution to the debate about further powers.

-- and he realised it was an important contribution. We look at

on the basis of what we have all got and we bring forward proposals on

the foundation of giving Scotland or Paris. He could have done and

probably arguably should have done this a few months ago, they

hesitated until the last minute with this timetable. If there had been

some form of enforcement to try and accelerate this process, we might

have got a less healthy position than we are at just now, because

just now, we have these three parties in their own way, at their

own pace, they have all distinctively and differently

researched in depth, what they think we need to do. I think it was very

important that the three parties did this, and that is why I say the

starting point for this is very different to where we were when the

Calman Commission was formed. Tavish Scott, do you think Westminster is

ready to agree to things already settled in Scotland? I do not think

they have a choice. They have to move on and come together. Gordon

Brown's speech was helpful, the former Prime Minister pushing

Mike's party into a much stronger position on the need to move

forward. He also mentioned federalism last night and I am very

encouraged by not just what we can achieve in Scotland but I care about

the rest of UK as well and I hope that out of what is happening in

Scotland, there can be models of new ways and better ways of doing things

the whole of the UK. The federal solution is something that liberals

and Lib Dems have long since believed in. I think the time is now

and is celeb dismissing it, that is one of the unifying factor is that

we might all move forward with. There are people across all of the

parties that believe in it. That is the future for the UK. It is a way

that is entirely compatible with a reformed and stronger Scotland with

many more powers and much of the control that we need to make the

right decisions and make the right decisions over welfare, tax, all of

these aspects to our lives. Michael Marra, Labour are offering less than

Annabel and Tavish Scott's parties, do they have to offer more to get

agreement? And 's agreement on the table, there is an open consultation

period and we will come to an agreement. There are substantial

agreement cross parties. The impressive part of this is that

there is recognition across-the-board that business as

usual has now come to an end. It is clear we are in a process of reform

across the UK. There are substantial proposals from the Labour Party to

reform or parts of the Constitution, local government, the House of

Lords, strengthen the Scottish Parliament and Wales also and there

is a package of something that Ed Miliband will be selling in Scotland

tomorrow. Thank you. Tonight, Jim Sillars,

the former SNP Deputy Leader and husband of the late

Margo Macdonald, has made a film. In this piece,

he gives us his highly personal take on why he believes the independence

vote has led to a huge grassroots movement for independence

among the working classes across Scotland, and why they will be

so influential in the Referendum. Jim Sellers,... I have been in

politics for a long time and in that time I have watched skills and build

one way and see a different party elected in Westminster. -- I have

watched Scotland vote one way. The party that we did not vote for. But

ahead of this referendum, something astonishing is happening.

Working-class people are now mobilising all over Scotland and it

is under the weight of what we might call the orthodox newspapers and the

BBC. This mobilisation is going on at an incredible rate. At public

meetings across Scotland, working-class people are turning out

in their hundreds to debate independence. 250,000 Scottish

children are living in poverty. That is immoral outraged and an economic

stupidity. So often in politics, the other folk are the ones that are

forgotten about. This time, I believe they are very important

people and they will decide the outcome. These meetings are not

unusual. They are being held all over Scotland and they are part of

the greatest civic movement that our country has ever seen and it is a

great source of pride to the working people discover themselves. Their

intellectual ability and their belief that they can run their

country better than anyone else from south the border.

I have been out on the campaign trail and so have volunteers. Have

you ever taken part in a campaign like this before? No. Full eye out

night knocking on the Bulls doors. It is incredible how criticised

people have become. -- knocking on doors. It is almost too exciting.

I have seen the destruction caused by Westminster to our engineering

and industrial base. Someone who saw this damage at close hand was this

union convener. Somebody said, why are so many people registering to

vote. I said because they will not be voting for politicians. They will

be voting for the future of the country. It is important that people

realise that. It is not a vote for the SNP, Labour, or Alex Salmond. It

is a thought for the future of your country. It is a vote for a favour

-- for a favour society. Independents will enable new

industries to be developed. I don't hear on the Firth of Clyde. There is

oil and gas under there that was kept secret. Now we know about it.

We can produce a new industry for all of their share, Inverclyde,

Dumbarton, Clydebank. We are talking about high-quality jobs,

high-quality wages, and especially real apprenticeships for our young

people. Of course there is one person who saw the opportunities

that independence would bring perhaps clearer than anyone else. My

late wife. Margo MacDonald said you are better than you are taught to

believe you are. She wanted to eliminate that myth. That is their

message that I am carrying. I hope that it proves effective because she

fought all her life for independence. I would like to be

able to tell her, we did it. I am carrying her message to

communities. Better Together, better for who? Not for disabled people or

people living in poverty. Is this as good as it gets? People going to

food banks. That is a disgrace. With just over one week to go I would

like people to remember one thing. On September the 18th between the

hours of seven o'clock in the morning and ten o'clock at night, we

the people of Scotland are softened for the first time in our lives. If

at one minutes past ten we have faulted no we have thrown that away

forever. But if at that time we have voted yes we keep the sovereign

power in Scotland is to make a better country forever.

Jim Sillars is here in the studio along with Ian Davidson.

Let me ask you about what we were talking about. The new timetable to

set out powers in the event of a No vote. It is a dead duck. No one has

mentioned the English members of Parliament. This would have to go

through Westminster, where the majority are in fact not Scots.

Scotland cannot take more powers, they have to be given more hours.

That is why we have three UK party leaders coming tomorrow. Party

leaders are different. I have experience of this. I watched MPs of

all parties who were unhappy about additional powers coming to Scotland

mobilised to make sure it did not happen. Her study shows that you had

better take account of what the English members of Parliament say

before you make any promises. -- fist officials. There is not any

promise at the end of the day. Even what Gordon Brown has offered, I was

at a meeting in, neck tonight, people were laughing at it. They

were seeing, why now? Is it only because the Yes campaign won an

opinion poll. They are the same powers that have been promised for a

while. Let us return to the theme of the film from Jim Sillars. It was a

powerful arguments. It raises the question that many working people

might ask. If we are Better Together, why are not Better

Together already? Things can always get better. Things can also get

worse. What was disgraceful about the film is that it is peddling a

myth that the working class will be liberated in some way, that's the

ball socialist programme is what will be implemented if we have

independence. Let us be clear. The SNP and Alex Salmond and making it

explicit that a Yes vote is a mandate for the proposals in the

White Paper and they are redistributive, but they are

redistributed in favour of the rich. A captain Corporation tax for

example. It is also clear that the SNP do not support the Labour

proposal on the 50p rate of income tax which is redistributive in

favour of ordinary working people. They do not support the idea of an

energy fleas. The idea that voting yes will be a socialist liberation

is a deception. Other arms of the Yes campaign are speaking to

business and seeing you will get what you want. The dishonesty at the

core of a lot of the yes campaigners that they are saying different

things to different people in order to fool enough of the people once to

win independence. The only tax proposal is to cut corporation tax.

What does the ballot papers say? It says nothing about a White Paper.

This is the bankrupt Labour Party. The Scottish Government is entitled

to its point of view, but so is the radical independence campaign, so as

the Scottish Socialist party, so as the Green Party, so are people from

all parties taking part. We will decide what happens to Scotland in

2016 in the first independent selection. It could be a Labour

Government. What we are getting is about the SNP. It is not about the

SNP. It is about my grandchildren, everybody else's grandchildren, and

the Scottish nation. That is the only argument they can put up. Alex

Salmond has never said that you vote for this and you endorse the White

Paper. Yes he has. He has not. Constitutionally you are correct.

Any Government could be elected in 2016. It could be a Labour

Government. If it is a Yes vote who will be conducting the negotiations?

We want to know. It will be the Scottish Government. They cannot

even tell us. Do you think the SNP will not have a majority on that? Do

you think they could be overturned? It defies belief. We do not even

know what the negotiating team will have in terms of the currency. Have

a position where they could be overturned? They will go

negotiations with commitments the date in the White Paper. The cruelty

to working people is that because these things are not made explicit

at the moment, they do not know what the mortgage rate will be, they do

not know how many of them will have jobs in the event of a Yes vote, and

it is a cruel deception. Jim Sillars, there was a moving

reference in your film to your late wife. She said if you things before

she died, that she was concerned about the tone of the campaign. How

do you think she reads consider the last few weeks have gone? I think it

has been oche. We have never ever blamed the No campaign, unlike Jim

Murphy, who immediately blamed the Yes campaign. This happens at

elections. This is not unusual. I do not mind somebody throwing an egg at

me. But Ian is at the fair campaign. Trident is going to go. When Trident

goes we can open up the Clyde for the oil and gas exploitation that

the Tories and your Government have hidden from us since 1981. You

should be ashamed of yourself. Gentlemen, we will have to leave it

there. There is a flying pig going by. A cruel deception. That is it.

We have no more time. Quiet, both of you. You are intellectually

bankrupt. Thank you for coming in. It is not only across the UK that

the Scottish referendum has been making headlines.

A Spanish newspaper reports that Ed Camelon -- David Cameron, Ed

Miliband, and Nick Clegg are travelling to Scotland for the No

campaign. CNN it gives the viewers a guide on Scottish independence.

With me now to take a look at the rest of the day 's news.

One of the interesting things that has come up today has been in

message from Buckingham Palace. There has been speculation about

whether there was pressure put on the Queen to get involved in the

referendum campaign. It will see she is concerned about the break-up of

the union. Buckingham Palace said it is categorically wrong that she is

going to say anything at all. Will the idea that she is worried about

the break-up of the union affect anybody's fault? I think it will.

The majority of people in Scotland are lost. They would like to keep

the royal family. They admire the Queen. She made a comment earlier

this year. A statement of hers was read out to open the General

Assembly free she spoke about the need to heal divisions that have

been treated by the referendum campaign. It sounded like she was

worried about it. Our Scottish voters concerned about the idea that

the Queen might not want to see the union pick-up Western backed it is

obvious the Queen does not want to see a pick-up. It would be strange

if she said, you are all right. I like the fact they have said that

the Queen is saying nothing. There is a statement that she is not begin

a statement. It is a given that the Queen does not want Scotland and

England to have a situation. It is historic that they do not like that.

But fair play for her coming out and saying, I am seeing nothing. I quite

like that idea. At least it means David Cameron will not have Tory MPs

demanding that the Queen say something. The statement was made

today. There were demands for David Cameron to ask the Queen for a

statement. Alex Salmond also made a remark about how the Queen would be

happy to be the Queen of Scots. She will remain as head of state

whatever happens. I am sorry that was soberly. We will be back

tomorrow. Goodbye.